Ask the Yangxifu: On Placing Ads To Find Western Women | Speaking of China

51 Responses

  1. C.
    C. May 11, 2012 at 4:00 am | | Reply

    I can’t speak for anyone else, but I actively avoid dating sites and expat forums (e.g., Shenzhen Stuff, Beijinger). In addition to what you’ve said, I’ve found that they attract all the wrong sorts of Chinese men. In my experience, the guys who post to them (a) are under the mistaken impression that Western women will sleep with you on the first date (and get violent about it when you won’t!) and/or (b) are already married and are looking for an er nai.

    I also wonder whether Tran’s getting mistranslated in Chinese. I’ve had lots of guys grope me inappropriately on dates and then said “Well, the Asian guy said I should do it!”

  2. Sveta
    Sveta May 11, 2012 at 7:01 am | | Reply

    To the Chinese men reading this post: If you are meeting a Western woman, don’t automatically start pressuring her for sex. I’ve had a lot of guys do that over QQ, which is beyond annoying. Know what will impress her? Treating her like a human being, which means holding intelligent conversations with her and not asking her to take her clothes off.

    For me personally, the ads sound a bit creepy because one may not know the person, and there is extra caution when you’re meeting someone from the Internet.

  3. Bruce
    Bruce May 11, 2012 at 8:07 am | | Reply

    Western women will see everything you do in person and there are things that will catch their eyes. “In order to catch a big fish in the ocean , you will need lots of effort. Some fish will nimble your bait, some will bite it and some don’t like what you have to offer”. Finding a woman to have sex is different from finding a woman of your dream. A no strings attached sex partner is totally different from a woman who loves you. If I’m a single guy, I only like to talk to a person rather than placing an ad because I don’t like everything to be planned. If a woman likes you, she will continue to try to know you. Don’t worry about she’s getting away.

  4. David
    David May 11, 2012 at 8:38 am | | Reply

    “Add to this the fact that it’s just tough to charm people through hard, cold black-and-white print — especially if you’re talking about single Western women who just happen to automatically exclude you because you’re Chinese. It’s sad but true — some of your target women still don’t see Chinese men as dating material, and they’ll skip your ad the moment they see your photo or the word “Chinese man.””

    If the reason is cultural it is understandable. However, if the reason is racial or racist in nature, why come to China other than for greed…fat expat salary? Actually, American and Canadian women who come to Asia are usually very open minded. The racist ones dont leave their country. However, with Brits, Aussies and even some Europeans it is a different story. They are in China or any other Asian country to make money. They hang out in expat circles..and some even belong to One Nation (Australia) and British National Party (BNP)…one white expat English woman was so drunk in Singapore that she thought she was back in England and screaming for all Asians to get out of her country….this story was somehow hushed up even as action was taken against her. They also have a sense of entitlement…they should be allowed to work in Asia on fat expat salarries but the Chinese and other Asians should not be allowed to work in the UK and Australia because those countries are overcrowded. These women of course wont even sit next to an Asian man in the Metro. Unfortunately, Singaporeans are fast catching up. In a recent survey they felt that they should have the right to work abroad but nearly 80% of the respondents who said so felt that foreigners should not be allowed to work in Singapore…selfishness and greed period…go figure!

  5. David
    David May 11, 2012 at 10:45 am | | Reply

    And one more thing…ran into this white American woman in Ireland last week who was pissed off that an Irish guy wont date her because she was not Irish!

  6. Henry Yeh
    Henry Yeh May 11, 2012 at 10:51 am | | Reply

    The Anglo media hate campaign is most successful indeed.

  7. anonymous
    anonymous May 11, 2012 at 11:07 am | | Reply

    hmmm… the dubiousness of searching for someone of a particular ethnicity aside, I think at least the asker should try more regular means such as face to face meeting, similar interest groups. Personally I would be very suspicious of an ad in the papers because without having anything in common if someone simply wants to find a partner of a particular race I would classify that as a fetish. Not that going to certain areas JUST to pick up people of a particular race isnt the same thing. But pursuing a friendship with someone you find attractive would at least give this gentleman some insight into the girls personality and he would not treat her as a piece of meat.

    I resonate with the previous posters views about their negative experiences. It is precisely because of the fetishizing that someone would view an entire group as having one characteristic.

    In short, I agree with Jocelyn. Skip the ad.

  8. Katrina Miller-Fallick
    Katrina Miller-Fallick May 11, 2012 at 11:16 am | | Reply

    What Anonymous said. I DID meet my chinese fiance online…but not because I was specifically looking for a chinese man to date. I was just looking for a decent guy, and it turned out that MY perfect guy, happens to be chinese. I don’t think I would have considered specifically looking for someone of a certain race (It just didn’t occur to me) and, like anonymous said, any ads that targeted me for my race, hair color, what ever, would have felt REALLY creepy to me.

  9. Jason
    Jason May 11, 2012 at 11:20 am | | Reply

    How is it any different if a Chinese guy exclusively dates Chinese girls?

    Is that racist too?

    What if the Chinese guy just happens to find females of other races more attractive?? What is he supposed to do? Just ignore his own instincts?

  10. Blossom
    Blossom May 11, 2012 at 12:00 pm | | Reply

    I have to agree with Jason here. Having a preference for a particllular race is not a fetish, nor is it anything close to racism – it is simply what we find attractive. I find all (most) persons of Asian appearance beautiful to look at, male and female. I also really like the personalities of most of the Asian people I am lucky enough to meet. This should never be mistaken as a fetish. The word ‘fetish’ simply doesn’t serve to explain one’s attraction to a specific race. The word fetish has much darker, abnormal connotations relating to fixations on objects or body parts, and should be used very cautiously.

  11. David
    David May 11, 2012 at 1:06 pm | | Reply

    “How is it any different if a Chinese guy exclusively dates Chinese girls?

    Is that racist too?”

    No. That is cultural. However, if a Chinese guy restricts himself to other Asians with whom he is not culturally compatible…Malay moslem, Indonesian moslem, Filipina Christian or a Balinese Hindu come to mind…based on physical appearance with whom he has nothing in common..but wont consider a white woman…it is racist. Most Chinese want to marry other Chinese based on culture. Most American women (outside those in this blog and the AMWW magazine blog) want to marry someone who is white..which is color and a physical feature…now that white American woman who is pissed that the Irish guy wont date her…because both of them happen to be white according to her without regard to culture…well she is a racist.
    Europe is going to hell economically because they admitted members into EU based solely on their skin color without any consideration of economic status. Germany, Greece, Poland and UK have nothing in common other than their white skin color. And basing decisions on skin color is racist and as in the case of Europe we all know it is foolish!

  12. ordinary malaysian
    ordinary malaysian May 11, 2012 at 2:05 pm | | Reply

    @Jason, I am with you. The terms fetishism and racism are often misused. Loosely defined so that most everyone, if not inevitably everyone, is either a racist and/or has a fetish. Now, you can’t have a preference for anyone or anything without being told that you have a fetish for this or that or that you are a racist or both. Wow, how are we going to be normal/regular fellows in this milieu, guys! That said, placing an ad to look for one’s yangxifu will work if there is a “niche market” for it out there, so to speak. Where there are yangxifu who are themselves seeking for Asian guys in ads. Otherwise, it would be more profitable, like Jocelyn said, to go out there and look for them.

  13. Dan
    Dan May 11, 2012 at 2:25 pm | | Reply

    It is interesting to see how the discussion always goes to defend these types of relationships or rejecting aspects of it.

    Lot easier to find someone if you make it really personal.

  14. anonymous
    anonymous May 11, 2012 at 5:26 pm | | Reply

    I do not think chinese wanting to be with chinese is racist. thats the natural tendency to prefer your own kind. But to the commenters above: if u place a quota in your mind that can only be filled by a certain race… i am sorry… it may not be the psychologically disturbing kind of fetish, but it is not attraction, which is far more intuitive. Maybe because I have been around people who “prefer” a certain race (some of them even have flavors for the season)… but to me they are not the same people who get into intercultural relationships. It is a different thing if you have been exposed to, or embedded in the culture for a while, or if u just happen to like qualities that MAYBE one type might have over other.

    But going to a bar and ONLY focussing on black girls, advertising for white ones or choosing to only date blondes…is not a crime, but shows the shallowness behind that thought.

    it is the same difference between “white men who chase asian women because they are asian” and white men who genuinely love their asian gf’s or wives for who they are. Maybe sometimes that is not so different. but there are enough examples where it is actually different and the latter being confused with former is insulting.

  15. C.
    C. May 11, 2012 at 6:10 pm | | Reply

    @Jason:

    Here’s a good primer. http://www.good.is/post/dealbreaker-he-s-got-an-asian-fetish/

    In short, when people say they think they’re more compatible with people from a certain racial or ethnic background, what they’re really saying is that they’ve so thoroughly and uncritically bought their culture’s racist and sexist beliefs about others. They think they’re being open-minded and tolerant, when really they’re the worst type of racists. This is why a lot of Asian-Americans pay really close attention to white guys’ behavior, and why so many female expats do the same sort of vetting with Chinese guys. We want to see if they ping our fetishdar.

    Moreover, what a LOT of people miss is that THIS is usually what critics of inter-cultural/inter-racial relationships are criticizing, not the existence of relationships per se. Or to put it in more formal terms, it’s the difference between a (naieve and white co-opted) colorblind notion of racial equity and an approach from a critical race theory perspective.

    Women (and presumably men) who prefer to date within their race/ethnicity trigger these issues. If you talk to them about it, they say they have this preference because they just want someone “like them” so they can completely understand the expected dynamics.

  16. C.
    C. May 11, 2012 at 6:12 pm | | Reply

    It should be “race/ethnicity DO NOT trigger these issues.” Sorry for the editing fail.

  17. Kedai
    Kedai May 11, 2012 at 6:24 pm | | Reply

    It sounds to me that he LW needs to sort out his priorities. If he does not currently have to the resources to pursue dates with women of his preferred description, it may not simply be a good idea to start anything at all.

  18. Sara
    Sara May 11, 2012 at 11:50 pm | | Reply

    I’m pretty sure that I wouldn’t even see the ad in the first place and second if I saw it (and was single) I wouldn’t asnwer to it. The guy would have to be something really unique and extraordinary and amazing that I would contact after seeing a dating ad. So like Jocelyn said, I think ads aren’t really the best way to find a girlfriend.

    So how to find one then? Well, my boyfriend just happened to be out the same night an in the same place I was. And he had te curiosity and courage to make the first move. He was first interested because I was white, but soon realized that I’m much more than a white girl.

    There’s nothing wrong to want a Chinese boyfriend, Western girlfriend (or someone else), but just don’t make it sound like any Wester girl would be ok.

  19. HamLover
    HamLover May 11, 2012 at 11:58 pm | | Reply

    I think there are advantages and disadvantages to doing personal ads/internet dating. The positives are that you have access to a larger audience than if you just frequented bars or waited for friends to introduce you. You also don’t feel so intimidated, opposed to going out to bars or clubs. You would also hope that people on these sites are actually single. I guess the negatives are that some people use old pictures, write untruths about themselves – basically misrepresent themselves. Some just see internet dating as a “meat market”.
    I think being specific in your requirements is essential. You want to attract the partner you feel will match you! Paid websites usually have a higher quality of “members” …Just look on any free one vs paid and you will see what I mean!
    I also think it’s important for any guy or girl to really think about why they want a partner from a different country/culture. In my experience some Chinese guys see you as easier, as in Chinese girls have priced themselves out of their market…And now Chinese guys see Western girls as an easier “catch”. The guys I met thought I had less demands but I felt these guys were so Chinese still. I felt they were attracted to the idea of a Western girlfriend or wife but the reality was they still wanted a Chinese girl who had Western ideals. It’s ridiculous.

  20. April
    April May 12, 2012 at 2:10 am | | Reply

    I don’t think finding someone online is too bad, I found my Chinese guy (actually he found me), on the QQ International Personals profile pages.
    I’m in America right now, but this summer I’m visiting and possibly moving to China to be with him indefinitely.
    Anything’s possible, don’t give up.
    Destiny prevails right?!

  21. David
    David May 12, 2012 at 11:52 am | | Reply

    “I do not think chinese wanting to be with chinese is racist. thats the natural tendency to prefer your own kind. But to the commenters above: if u place a quota in your mind that can only be filled by a certain race.”

    Chinese is an ethnicity with a distinct culture. It is not a race. Hence Chinese preferring other Chinese is not racist. Similarly an Irish preferring other Irish is not racist…a distinct culture. However, white people preferring other white people based on skin color is racist. Thus, the Bachelor and Bachelorrette shows on American TV are racist.

  22. David
    David May 12, 2012 at 12:01 pm | | Reply

    “because they just want someone “like them” so they can completely understand the expected dynamics.”

    Someone “like them”. All whites are not similar. In fact, white people are more polarized among themselves in their views than they are with minorities. I know white people here in Virginia who are so extreme that they are arming themselves against the other. Sad to say, if there were no minorities for white people to unite against in this country, they will go the way of Northern Ireland or Bosnia and start killing each other. Pro-life white people are arming themselves against pro-choice whites and to some extent vice versa. Anti-gay whites are arming themselves against pro-gay as well as gay whites and to some extent vice versa. Some whites who are very anti interracial dating and marriage (and yes, Asian-white is interracial) are arming themselves against the few whites who are open minded…and so on and so forth. That is the reality.

  23. cvaguy
    cvaguy May 12, 2012 at 9:27 pm | | Reply

    Placing Ad for specific race is by all means fetish, in my opinion. So he just likes white girl, no matter how her personality is, what culture background she has and how intelligent she is, what so ever?
    It takes me a while to realize that not all whites are alike. In fact whites are more diversed than other races in US, as David pointed out. And not all white girls are attractive, even blondes. The ones you watch on TV are not what you see everyday on the street.
    If you attract to pretty girls and you live in an area where majority are whites, you have higher chance to fall for a girl who happens to be white. But you should never exclusively date only certain race, that is racist.

  24. Alex
    Alex May 12, 2012 at 10:25 pm | | Reply

    western women are very desirable, know what I mean ? Hehehe !

  25. Barbara
    Barbara May 12, 2012 at 10:26 pm | | Reply

    “Europe is going to hell economically because they admitted members into EU based solely on their skin color without any consideration of economic status. Germany, Greece, Poland and UK have nothing in common other than their white skin color.”
    How litle you know about Europe, David! I ensure you that EU countries have much more in common than just white citizens.

  26. Andrea
    Andrea May 13, 2012 at 2:24 am | | Reply

    I think that you definetly should go out to look for women but it is possible to find them online aswell. Might be alot harder but it is possible.

  27. Sarah
    Sarah May 13, 2012 at 2:50 am | | Reply

    I think going out and actually meeting people face to face is always going to be the best option. I think you should let these things happen naturally its great to just meet someone when you least expect it

  28. Victor Ng
    Victor Ng May 13, 2012 at 4:03 am | | Reply

    i agree with Sarah. face-to-face is always the best.
    What do you guys think about speed dating? I am a Chinese from Hong Kong and was tempted to try it in Melbourne but never did. At the end I met my gf now through a mutual friend instead.
    My experience was that Asians may be more nervous in those sorta settings.

  29. jenna cody
    jenna cody May 13, 2012 at 8:05 am | | Reply

    The original question noted that the guy doesn’t really have the time to go out and try to meet Western women in real life and is looking for a shortcut.

    Sorry to say it, but if you don’t have the time to go out and try to meet people, then how are you going to have the time to date one once you find one you like? I personally would be really turned off by a guy who was “too busy” to try and meet me or someone like me by going out, as though meeting me wasn’t worth the time and effort it would take to get out there.

    I’ve also found in Taiwan that, while not universal, quite often Western women dating Taiwanese men find that the men have less “time” for the relationship than they would like – whether it’s due to family obligations (especially canceling plans because Mom needs something), work (the Taiwanese – and Chinese and most East Asians for that matter – work themselves to death, I swear) or whatever, and the women tend to become irritated. My sister was sort of seeing a Taiwanese guy, but he kept canceling their plans because he had to work late, so she finally cut off contact – she was sick of it. That’s just one example. If you don’t have time now, I can assure you that you’ll likely run into problems later, once you’re actually dating a Western woman. Now, Taiwan is not China but there’s certainly an element of this in China, as well.

    I also wonder about specifically wanting to meet a “Western woman” – I do sort of understand how attraction is a very personal thing and you can’t help who you are attracted to, but on the other hand, why specifically go after Western women rather than looking for a woman of any race – your own or foreign – and not closing yourself off? You might well find a woman of another race to whom you *are* attracted. I mean, for the longest time I found Indian guys (or rather a specific subset of them – the educated, urban, put-together ones) really attractive and wasn’t that interested in white guys. I think, though, at the time that this was partly an expression of where I was in life: I’d spent considerable time in India, was back in the USA, and the white guys I was meeting weren’t interested in travel and couldn’t wrap their heads around my experience in India (or just didn’t care that much). The Indian guys “got” that aspect of my life.

    I didn’t close myself off to white guys, though, and I ended up married to one!

  30. Jason
    Jason May 13, 2012 at 10:16 am | | Reply

    @C

    So Asian girls who exclusively dates White people or White guys who goes to China to find Asian girls are the worst types of racists?

    How I look at it, they’re just going after what they want. Doesn’t even have anything to do with racism.

  31. jenna cody
    jenna cody May 13, 2012 at 10:21 am | | Reply

    Not the worst types of racists, but closing oneself off to people of different races *simply because* of their race is a form of racism. Not the absolute worst form, but that doesn’t mean it’s not racism.

    I can understand *mostly* being attracted to one race or another based on characteristics you happen to like, but I just don’t see how it’s possible to know that you will NEVER, EVER NOT EVER be attracted to someone of a race other than that, EVER. I suppose it’s possible, but unlikely. More likely, that person has an understandable preference *and* there’s an element of racism – especially when someone gives reasons for “exclusively” dating only one race along the lines of “I am just done with Western women, they’re fat/demanding/angry/difficult/ugly, Asian women are cute/sweet/lovely/slender/feminine” (I hate to use an example that can so easily attract flaming, but this is the example I most often come across). That’s a touch of personal preference, like a dab of guacamole, wrapped up in a big ol’ burrito of racism and sexism.

  32. Jason
    Jason May 13, 2012 at 10:34 am | | Reply

    For those who say that exclusively dating a race is racist, then I would guess that most people in this world is racist. Because most people have only stuck to their own race.

    And attraction is really hard to suppress, only you know exactly what personalities, looks you go for in the opposite sex. To ignore those instincts and just sticking to the safer route would be the worst thing you can do to yourself. You’d be lying to yourself the entire time. Everyone wants to love and be loved, but only with someone who we truly desire. We know that every race has its own beautiful people, but there’s nothing wrong with going after what is the best for you. Because when you find someone you truly love, all that stuff about different cultures or race will mean nothing.

  33. Sveta
    Sveta May 13, 2012 at 10:55 am | | Reply

    In the past when I was a teenager I desired to have an American boyfriend and often had crushes on them. But it never worked out. They never saw me as a potential girlfriend and I found myself feeling ugly and insecure around them. I also couldn’t relate to them because I love reading and was good at academics (not math and science,) and they weren’t. I felt that they took advantage of me and made fun of me all the time. In other words, white guys I have met throughout the ages never let me feel like a human being or a woman for that matter. Asian men on the other hand, I had much more of a nicer treatment from them than from Americans, and I found that I could relate to them. As of now I can’t find any white men attractive. Not at all. To me they look like people, but they don’t exude the “I want to sleep with you” feeling.

    Plenty of times as well, a guy never wanted to be with me because I wasn’t christian 🙁 To me that’s racist. You’d pass up a nice sweet girl and won’t give her a chance just because she’s not a christian? Stupid. To me racism means that you hate a particular race and don’t want to be anywhere near it and wish it could disappear into the ends of the earth. If a person chooses to date a specific race exclusively, I don’t see any difference between that and choosing to date christian girls only or choosing to date tall leggy blonds and never giving brunettes any try or else choosing to exclusively date your own race.

  34. cvaguy
    cvaguy May 13, 2012 at 11:24 am | | Reply

    I think it is about finding the right balance between work and personal life. Work yourself to death is wrong, in my opinion. Every relationship needs nurturing, spending time togather is important part of it.
    Preference of attraction is a personal choice, but it could change over time. Eventually the common interesrts and compatibility play the key role bounding us togather.

  35. jenna cody
    jenna cody May 13, 2012 at 11:34 am | | Reply

    “Because when you find someone you truly love, all that stuff about different cultures or race will mean nothing.”

    You do realize that’s a stronger argument in favor of **not** closing yourself off to dating people of other races, right? “Go after what’s best for you” is also an argument in favor of not closing yourself off – you can still date people you like while being open to the idea that you might like someone of a different race than those you would normally date. That doesn’t mean you MUST go after people of other races, just that it *is* a bit racist to say that you absolutely won’t date them.

    It gets more complicated when we bring culture into it, though, that I think we can all agree on. This is why I am purely sticking to race as an example.

    It’s true that most people do end up sticking to their own race when dating, but I’d venture to say that a huge number who do never actually think about it, and likely live in a place where most of the people around them are the same race that they are. If they met someone they liked of a different race they’d possibly date that person.

    I did say above that it is possible to be generally/mostly attracted to certain races and not others – nothing wrong with that. My point is that I doubt anyone is *so* strongly attracted to just one race that it would be impossible for them to go after anyone of any other race, because they could never, ever feel attracted to them. I just don’t think that’s true, or if it is true for some, it is pretty uncommon. So I do get the strong impression that anyone who says something like the above is, well, racist.

    This is not the same thing as tending to date a certain group, or going after people you like who are all from a certain group, while not being closed off to the idea that you might like someone from another group. It’s when I hear “All Asian guys are _____”/”White women are all so _______”/”I could never date a black guy because _________” that my racism alarm goes off.

  36. C.
    C. May 14, 2012 at 5:10 am | | Reply

    @David: In the vast majority of Western countries, chances are there’s a pretty close relationship between your race and your ethnicity. The cultural expectations of people whose families immigrated from certain regions tend to be more similar to each other than to the American norm. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve heard Korean-American friends say that dating Japanese-American guys is easier because of similar cultural expectations (e.g., age at marriage, role of women after marriage, issues with immigrant parents, etc.).

    I’m not sure I buy your characterization of Americans. For starters, most violence in the US is due to the drug war — not politics. Secondly, the debates that exist seem to be more of a religious/secular and North/South issue to me rather than a white/minority one — which is why Obama was rolling the dice with the Black community when he came out in favor of same-sex marriage. But that’s a bit off-topic.

    @Jason: Yes. The problem is that they want those things because of completely internalized and unquestioned racism — and they have the gall to think that they’re “tolerant” or “open-minded” when they’re anything but.

    And yes, once you’ve drunk the racial stereotype kool-aid, it’s pretty hard to undo. But it can be done — and the first step is seeing it for what it is.

  37. David
    David May 14, 2012 at 5:23 pm | | Reply

    “How litle you know about Europe, David! I ensure you that EU countries have much more in common than just white citizens.”
    Yep! That is why Greece might have to exit Euro and may be the EU. Romania and Uk have little or nothing in common other than the obvious. It is like saying Indians and Pakistanis have a lot in common…the only thing they have in common is their skin color! ditto for Bangladeshis.

  38. David
    David May 14, 2012 at 5:28 pm | | Reply

    “Not the worst types of racists, but closing oneself off to people of different races *simply because* of their race is a form of racism. Not the absolute worst form, but that doesn’t mean it’s not racism.”
    If race means color of one’s skin or the shape of the anatomy (pointy noses, etc.) yes it is racism. However, an Irish wanting to marry Irish or a Chinese wanting to marry Chinese or even better a Cantonese speaker wanting to marry a Cantonese speaker is not racist. It is cultural preference.

  39. David
    David May 14, 2012 at 5:34 pm | | Reply

    “For those who say that exclusively dating a race is racist, then I would guess that most people in this world is racist. Because most people have only stuck to their own race.”
    Most people in the world stick to their ethnicity. Chinese is not a race…it is an ethnicity. Russian is not a race, it is an ethnicity. Zulu is not a race, it is a tribe or ethnicity. That is not racism. It is culutral comapatability. For instance Indians come in all shapes and sizes. A person belonging to the Punjabi ethnicity could be as dark as an African or as white as a European. For instance, if the European looking Punjabi does not want to marry an African looking Punjabi, it is racism. However, the Punjabi wanting to marry Punjabi is not racism.
    In the US it is not ethnicity, it is race. When a white person says he would only marry white, it is racism, when a black person says they will marry only blacks, it is racism…etc. It is based on skin color and anatomy. If a Korean says she will marry a Filipino with whom she has nothing in common but wont marry white, it is racism. But, a Korean marrying a Korean is not racism…it is cultural and ethnic.

  40. David
    David May 14, 2012 at 5:40 pm | | Reply

    “Plenty of times as well, a guy never wanted to be with me because I wasn’t christian To me that’s racist.”

    There are many white Christians who wont date or marry non-white Christians just based on skin color. The only difference is religion and values cannot be adopted and unless there is a major scientific breakthrough I just dont think it is possible to change your anatomy or skin color.

  41. David
    David May 14, 2012 at 5:45 pm | | Reply

    “In the vast majority of Western countries, chances are there’s a pretty close relationship between your race and your ethnicity.”

    Just a few years before they migrated, back in Korea they would never have said that. Due to history Koreans dating Japanese will be frowned upon. However, once they come to America, Asians feel the need to get together because white (and black) culture suddenly looks very alien and suddenly Japanese and other cultures look very similar. Let us face the facts…the reason many Asian sororities are sprining up all across the US is because white females will not accept Asian females in theirs and there is a need to unite behind “Asian”…it is the socio-political dynamics of America.

  42. cvaguy
    cvaguy May 14, 2012 at 10:41 pm | | Reply

    When the discussion switching between Chinese in China and Chinese in US, it can be confusing. For chinese in China, the dating scene is more or less about culture. Dating foereigners is rare, and exclusively dating foreigners seem to me a fetish. For chinese in US, especially ABCs, the dating scene is not about culture. All of us are Americans, fundamentally. Exclusively dating one race, including your own, seems to me racist. You can say there is culture difference. Well, how much differences are there between ABC vs American born Korean and ABC vs a white guy next door? You can say Asians have common culture, but I found a lots of common culture with Jewish people and eastern europeans as well.

  43. David
    David May 15, 2012 at 7:25 am | | Reply

    “You can say there is culture difference. Well, how much differences are there between ABC vs American born Korean and ABC vs a white guy next door?”

    Not much. This is where it all comes down to skin color and anatomy. That is it comes down to race. And anything based on skin color and anatomy when culture is exactly the same is racist.

  44. Bruce
    Bruce May 16, 2012 at 3:31 pm | | Reply

    I ‘ve talked to women alot before . The truth is that you must keep on talking to them. I’m against placing an ad because you don’t know if he or she is honest on what he/she is looking for. For example, If I’m a single guy and I put on the ad saying that I’m an extremely wealthy asian guy looking for the love of his life. There will be tons and tons of white women etc wanting to talk to me or marry me. The connection, chemistry and personality are what turn on women. If you add commitment to it, then they will love you. Please talk with those women and I will guarantee you that one of them will like you. I don’t know about you but women in general like to talk to me old, mature or young women. good luck. I’m just trying to help.

    Bruce

  45. jenna cody
    jenna cody May 23, 2012 at 10:01 pm | | Reply

    David – I’d say more than you think. The actual person may not be that different culturally, but they will have still been taught values by their Asian parents that reflect Asian cultural values. The kid will absorb less of these than someone from Asia itself, and make room for the American cultural norms of his or her friends, classmates and neighbors, but they will still be there.

    Ever seen My Big Fat Greek Wedding? Like that. Tula is “white” (in that she is Caucasian and we don’t generally think of people of Greek heritage as being minorities in the USA) and has a lot of American cultural values – the movie spends some time on how she seems to have absorbed more of them than her older sister – and is basically, on her own, American.

    Her family is another story, though, and at the end it is clear she’s inherited some values from them, as well.

    So there is a difference, however minor. I don’t think it’s enough of a difference to put off two not-racist people who want to date, but it is there.

  46. jenna cody
    jenna cody May 23, 2012 at 10:07 pm | | Reply

    If it is a cultural preference, as I said above, it’s not racist. Culture is so very complicated that you just can’t reasonably question someone’s desires in that regard. I mean, on a post here awhile back I commented that had I been single for any real length of time in Taiwan I would have probably dated Taiwanese guys (I would have also considered other expats but to be honest I am really not impressed with the selection I would have had), and on another post commented that I would never, ever date or stay with a guy who felt he should be more well-educated than me (regardless of the level of education both of us actually had) simply because he’s the man. That’s a cultural issue – and I would dump someone over it. Could you say “but that’s how most Asian guys think, so it’s racist to judge him based on that?” I suppose, but I’d disagree with you.

    It can be really hard to differentiate, but “I want to marry someone who shares my culture” is one thing (and perfectly OK IMO) and “I want to marry someone who looks like me” is something I wouldn’t agree with or condone.

    I’m not going to split semantic hairs between “race” and “ethnicity” though.

  47. David
    David May 24, 2012 at 7:09 am | | Reply

    Jenna Cody:

    Agree that it is a cultural preference. But, when a white American woman says it is ok to marry an Armenian from Armenia with whom she has nothing common other than skin color, but not a Chinese-American, it does smack of racism.

  48. Jenna cody
    Jenna cody May 24, 2012 at 7:22 am | | Reply

    That’s basically what I said and think, too.

  49. cvaguy
    cvaguy May 24, 2012 at 5:24 pm | | Reply

    There are culture differences but a diminishing differences from generation to generation. A new immigrant family is likely to maintain its tradition. The second generation is not quite so. Third and fourth ? They are pretty much at the American norm.
    It is normally hard to tell culture preference and racism apart, buy there are ways to tell: 1) if you hit it off with a girl who did not see you or your picture over the phone or texting, you then tell her you are asian. The reaction can tell you a lot and 2) the first time you meet a girl, the moment she sees you and lost interest in you. Though it is hard to tell if she does not like you as a person or as a race. Regardless, the culture difference does not or should not play any role here.
    Without a certain level of interaction, culture preference perception is derived
    from stereotype perception.

  50. Barbara
    Barbara May 28, 2012 at 12:04 am | | Reply

    Looking for a foreign gf/wife might be a fetish. I’m affraid that some of you guys focus on race and racism too much sometimes, so I’ll try to give an example which is not related to race at all. I’m an artist and most of my friends are artists too. Many of us were studying together, so we know each other form the academy, galleries, vernissages and other events. It’s quite naturall that artist date and marry other artists, simply because they have more in common, similar interests and lifestyle. An artist will possibly get on better with another artist than with an economist or a lawyer. And it’s not that they would never date an economist cause they hate economists, they just don’t have much in common. Now, in the bars where we usually spend our time there are many arty and exalted girls who want to date artists cause they think that it would be so cool and they want to belong to the bohemia. I’m not saying that artists are only for artists, but if a girl wants to date a guy BECAUSE he’s an artist (not because she likes this particular guy) – this is a fetish.
    So, why those chinese guys want to place an ad to find a foreign wife? Don’t know. But I know that placing an ad doesn’t make much sense.
    First, foreign girls in China rather don’t search for a husband/bf on the net, just like chinese do. Kelly form talesfromhebei in one of her hilarious posts wrote that chinese have an expiry date. Well, foreigners don’t have expiry date and after turning 25 girls won’t hunt for a husband on the net cause they are “old”.
    Second, if you have no time to meet a foreign girl, then possibly you also won’t have time for the relationship, and from my own experience I know that relationship with a chinese guy requires much more time and dedication because WE ARE REALLY DIFFERENT and understand even totally basic matters differently.
    So if you are more attracted to foreign girls but you are looking for a genuine relationship and a girl you will love because of what likd of person she is (not just because she’s a foreigner) – go to places where you’ll meet people with whom you have sth in common. You love reading books – go to a bookstore or a library. You like sports – try yoga, gym, whatever. Or try websites/forums related to the things you like.
    Btw, I’ve met my chinese bf on the net and… yes, I’ve placed an ad at couchsurfing before I first arrived to Shenzhen. I was hoping for some tips and he really helped me a lot and took care of me. It was just impossible not to fall in love with this guy 😉

  51. Jenna cody
    Jenna cody May 28, 2012 at 12:39 am | | Reply

    “artists generally date artists” is an analogy for culture preferences, not race.

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