Discrimination. I never realized just how intimately I would come to know this word and what it really means after marrying a Chinese man.
I’ve thought about this word often in the past few days because of something that happened. I can’t write about it in any meaningful way, though I desperately want to. Like so many things, I feel condemned to carry this pain around with me in silence. I guess that’s why I needed to write this entry — to at least come forward and acknowledge what has happened, if only in a general sense.
When I married my husband, I never really thought much about the prospect of discrimination that would come with our decision to return to the US. I guess I suspected some people wouldn’t agree with our relationship or would have difficulty accepting John. But I always assumed the discrimination would remain obvious, like the one time when a White supremacist group linked to this website during a forum discussion about a “Chinese takeover.”
Instead, discrimination in reality feels more like a well-crafted novel — subtle, indirect and open to many interpretations, depending on who reads it. And sometimes, you’re surprised by the author, never expecting that this person could ever create such a thing.
My marriage to John has forever changed how I see America, sometimes in the worst possible ways. It’s an education that nobody asks for, but one that, perhaps, more of us really need. Maybe then people would understand what my husband and I face here. Maybe then it would be easier for me to share what’s really going on. As it is, I’ve fallen into a deep funk, fighting off depression to continue moving forward in my writing and my own life.
But as I write this entry, I also understand I’m not really alone — because chances are, many of you out there have experienced discrimination personally or through your husband or wife.
So I ask you — if you’re married to a foreigner and living in your country, how has discrimination towards him/her changed the way you see your country? Or if you’re a foreigner living in the country of your spouse, how has discrimination changed your perspective on living/working/studying abroad?
Jocelyn:
First, let us not forget you are living in [State]. Did you know that [State] was the only place in the country where a Chinese woman was lynched for showing interest in a white man. I did not find this in the internet, but in [City, State], back in 2002. In some places in that city it is a folklore. I personally did not experience any discrimination in Boise, although I did see couple of men communicating through a neo-nazi site in the public library. Then, as I walked down the street I encountered an Asian American female (with American accent)-white male couple with a child. Passing in a car three well-dressed young white women hurled some racial slurs at them..the day was July 22, 2002 at 5:00 PM. Around 7:00 PM, I saw the three women sitting and eating in a Thai restaurant joking with an Asian couple as though nothing had happened two hours before. Well, this is my experience in [State].
On the other hand, there are spots in the US, where Asian-white couples are the norm. Try the LA area. You will see wide contrasts. In Huntington Beach you will be spat on (my friend who works of all the places for ICE experienced this with his Filipina wife when white women first called them disgusting and then tried to spit on his wife), in Newport Beach people wont care if you have money. In Cerritos, you folks are norm (a huge proportion of the children of Asian-white couples are Presidential Scholars, say 60%). The situation is similar in Arcadia and Glendora. But, Glendale, Asian woman-white men couple are generally accepted but not the other way around. An Asian male-white female couple who travelled with me to Singapore with two very bright and beautiful girls (five years old one of them and already does second grade level math) told me that they have no problem in Cerritos but quite a bit in the San Diego area. In SF area, try Milbrae. Here in DC, no one bats an eye at the Asian male-white female couple (although very rare to see them than the other way around), unless you go to outer suburbs and even farther to Caroline county, VA where in the summer of 2003, a dark skinned Indian male with a very light skinned Indian female (husband and wife from India on the J-30 federal government doctor program) was beaten up because they thought they were a black white people. The criminals just got out after serving five years, and the couple was transferred to serve remote villages in the Aleutian Islands before getting the greencard. Now they are somewhere in CA. I can go on and on, but Jocelyn, you need to get out of [State]!
My general experience is that only about five percent of the white American women date or marry Asians and slightly more date outside their race. When you see a white American woman there is a 90% probability she wont even talk to you unless it is forced…by profession…office colleagues. If you keep persuing, you can be accused of sexual harrassment, something you dont want. However, if it is an Asian woman-white male, it is the white women who throw racial slurs, if it is an Asian male-white female, it is usually the white male who throws these slurs. In China it is subtle, people stare, but people also love mixed white-Chinese kids. In Singapore, even if people stare at people, police will show up and try to figure out if you are a troublemaker and calling people racist names could earn you at least a week in the slammer…and you dont want to be in the Singapore slammer even for an hour.
“As it is, I’ve fallen into a deep funk, fighting off depression to continue moving forward in my writing and my own life.”
Something I missed…you really need to move to Hawaii or at least get out of [State] and get to California or even Washington DC.
Whatever happened, I’m really sorry to hear that you and your husband have experienced it. I’m personally not married, but few times my Korean ex often complained to me about America, about how people thought he was Chinese or something like that, (when I first met him I thought he was Chinese, but I was always respectful towards him,) or else were mean to him because of the accent. He also was an International Student who literally had to pay his own way just to stay in America, so I witnessed how he couldn’t have decent jobs because of his status.
Hey Jocelyn!
So sorry to hear you’ve had something nasty happen to you lately. It sounds like it’s had a really negative effect on you, so first of all, here’s an e-hug.
Although hubby and I now live in Taiwan, we did live a large part of our relationship in NZ and it was through being with him that I came to understand just how racist NZ can be. If you come straight out and say this to those who are racially the majority, chances are they’ll be offended and deny it, but it’s true. I’ve seen it from the ‘other’ side, a side I could never have seen otherwise. I’ve found that the best way to pick a racist is not by the funny peaked hats but by the utterance of the phrase “I’m not a racist…”
One thing I have thought about at length and wanted to find a way to write about is the ‘magical us’ that exists, usually, within a racial majority. Within this magical us exists the acceptance that the things we’re saying are not really acceptable and in some cases flat out racist but it’s OK because we all get it. Right? Since being with hubby there have been countless occasions where I have refused to be a part of this magical us any longer. From the “It’s OK, you can tell us – are Asian men really…. you know… small?” to the “Gawd, it’s like friggin’ China Town in here!” (said by a staff member about the International Students office in an educational institute) to someone telling a group of people I was out to dinner with the reasons she would never ever date an Asian man (because they’re effeminate, apparently) and more. And each time when I pipe up and disagree, I can see that I have broken the rules – stepped outside and rejected the ingroup. I wasn’t supposed to do that.
But you know what? I firmly do not care. I don’t want to be one of those people who just pays lip service to not being racist but secretly and delightedly indulges in it anyway. But occasionally, this makes me feel very marginalised around people that I would expect to feel at ease with and close to and it points out the ugly underside of the places I call home. Thanks for bringing this topic up – it’s one that’s pretty close to home but also really hard to open up about.
Hi Jocelyn ,
Racism is a funny thing, peculiar rather than haha ! I am happily married to a Hong Kong Man for the last 20 years, and living in mainland China for the last 11.
He regularly is mistaken for my driver , bodyguard, interpreter or even sometimes people ask if Im his Bosses wife ! He reply, no SHE is my boss. All of these mistakes are by Chinese people !
Luckily he has a good sense of humour and a wonderful sense of who he is.
i guess this is reverse racism in a way!
You can choose to be upset or to laugh off others ignorance .
I’m surprised you never noticed any racism in China. There’s plenty of it here — and it’s not particularly subtle.
It is very subtile that you can just taste it but you can’t bring any action against it.
It can be easily interperated as they just don’t like you as a person, but soon you find there is pattern. The subtile differences can range from greeting with sencerity and willingness to hang out with, to dating and promotion.
From time to time, it could be so obvious like responses to inqury phone call for renting an apartment with and without an accent, or like blowing off right in your face.
In response to David’s comment. He is right. What I said above applies to NYC only.
I was told that you should make circlar zones for every 50 miles away from NYC, the further away the more obvious it is.
As David suggested, it is better to stay on either coasts.
cvaguy:
There are cities and suburbs in the middle of the country that are very broad minded, among them Minneapolis, Boulder, CO and New Mexico, but they are few and far between. University towns in Indiana used to be very racist including the Purdue campus, back in the 1980s, but not anymore. Actually, Perth, Australia is more racist against Asians (mostly due to white South Africans) than many towns in America, but mostly people sneering, not being violent. However, let us not forget that Rex Chapman a Basketball star who used to date Asian women while in Kentucky was harrassed and some people in the AD’s office told him to cut it out! As far as the coast is concerned, it is pretty bad below DC..and if you are an Asian-white couple you dont want to be caught dead in Greenville, SC or even in places like Savannah or Charleston. If you leave DC, you are only ok when you get to Miami. Atlanta suburbs are pretty racist. I would rather live in Minneapolis than in Savannah, GA.
Hi Jocelyn,
I’m sorry to hear about the discrimination that you and John are facing. Just remember that there are more people than you know who love and support you and John, including me. Please contact me if you need someone to talk to. I miss working with you.
Lori
Jocelyn, I am just writing to you to say that I can relate. I’ve had my fair share of bs. I wont get into it ’cause I am not quite ready to really talk about it. I am just showing you some love. 🙂 Stay strong. (hug)
Jocelyn,
Don’t let this and other incidents stop you from writing. Lets move forward w/your life and work. we are always here for you! When ever we have blogs , we will encounter racists/supremists. I think America is worst compare to China when it comes to physical attacks. China will not and can not take over America. It is not china’s interest and china does not have the capability to do so. White supremists are bunch of dumb asses. all of us will face discrimination in our lives. We must let it go. Jocelyn, have a talk w/your husband and close friends and you will feel better. Im seeing more and more AMWF couples lately so so worry so much. Jocelyn, once your husband finish his internship, you two can move any where you choose.
I wish I could take you and John out for breakfast,lunch and dinner if I live closer. Alot of those white supremists are leaving there groups and have reformed. You will see that those racists will date asian women on the side. ”Only white men can do whatever they want?” Its 2011 for god sake and we still have this kind of thinking. Don’t let those idiots stop us from living our lives. I was treated well by white,blacks , hispanics but I have my fair share of discrimination by whites,blacks, hispanics also. I never let that bother me. We must endure .
Jocelyn,
I am so sorry about this. It gets to me too, but for me it is usually people telling me I shouldn’t date my bf because I am too old or because I have a child, and that it is a disgrace to Asian people. In fact, I JUST got flamed pretty hard this weekend on another website by someone who thought I wasn’t “good enough” to date an Asian guy. I believe he said I wasted my youth and fertility on another and that I was settling for my bf.
ANYWAY, people are sick, especially those who think a persons race, religion, sex or social standing determine what they will be like.
Discrimination is discrimination and it is NOT ok.
I have grown up experiencing all of the racist stereotypes, and I have traveled to some other countries, and it is the same. Joycelyn, imagine living with behavior like you experienced continually, and no matter where you go in this world, or what you do, you are still viewed as “other than”. I never allowed myself to be cut off from getting to know people outside of my own race and culture, but racism is alive and well in this world.
At the end of the day it is you and your husband, not the people out there who approve, or do not approve. I find that the most important thing in an interacial relationship is to have each others back no matter what, be a comfort to each other when these types of things happen. Some people in this world, no matter what you say or do, will continue to behave in a racist way.
I hope this helps you to feel a little better. I can only repeat what was said by Bruce “endure and keep writing.” Never give up because you never know who is praying for you.
I’m so sorry to hear about this, Jocelyn! As much as Americans preach freedom and acceptance, there are still so many places where discrimination occurs. In fact, even in California, which is a pretty open state, these things happen. What’s important is that you stay strong and don’t let it get to you. You’re doing your part to change these attitudes simply by loving your Chinese husband. The more interracial couples are seen together, the more accepting people will be eventually (I hope).
I’m really sorry to hear you’ve recently experienced discrimination due to being with John and it has caused you a lot of pain and suffering. I’m assuming the reason you cannot write about it is because this was caused by a close friend, co-worker, or relative (someone who may probably read this)? I know how it’s like not to be able to talk about something that heavily weighs on your shoulders; if you ever need to write about it and get it off your chest, you can always email me.
Thankfully and luckily, I have yet to experience all the negativism and prejudices in my relationship with my Chinese boyfriend (I’m sure it will come later in life once we marry and have children); I guess this is because of the area we live in – if it was an hour outside the city, though, I’m sure we would experience it. It’s unfortunate not everywhere is the same when it comes to interracial relationships. A co-worker, a Chinese man married to a white woman, also experienced the discrimination/racism 30 or so years ago. This was because of the Province in Canada and city they lived in: a highly religious community that consisted of 95% white people. This got better after they moved here (area where there are many different races and cultures).
As many mentioned above, [State] may not be the greatest place to live if you’re in an interracial relationship – especially in a time where unemployment is high and many things are blamed on China for nothing and everything (even though it’s the companies HERE that are sending their work overseas). It’s not wonder we get mixed feelings about our own country (from what I’ve read and heard the USA seems in worse shape compared to Canada; I’ve been lucky so far). However, as your family/friends/work/life are probably mostly located in [State], I know it may not be possible to just move out of there. You seemed happier when you were back in China during the summer…I’m really sorry things are different now you’re back home in the US.
Jocelyn:
First try and leave [State]. Second watch the video of the real life Mao’s Last Dancer, and hope that two decades from now, you will be Parents of the Year…with super smart children of your own.
So sorry for having such an experience. As an Asian, despite what the western media writes about asians as having disputes (grossly exaggerated), deep down inside of our hearts we are extremely proud of China and what the Chinese have done. Everyday I pray that China continues to grow stronger to balance the world. Even though I am from India, I have enormous respect and awe for China. The fear that many westerners have about China and the Chinese is due to sheer ignorance and Media manipulation and also a fear of being overtaken. As the years go by and China continues to grow and improve herself, many westerners are going to have to come to grips that they are not better than everyone else. Your husband being a Chinese, undoubtedly has that legendary Chinese resilience and patience,you can learn that from him and hope that you get past these sad period.
Discrimination is one of the worst curses of human nature, this need to punish the other whether in an obvious or subtle manner just because the other is no the same as us. A lot of this crap arises out of fear and ignorance and the discomfort of a perceived dissonance to the status quo. It is really the remnant of tribal instinct. Therefore a lot of it is just cowardice couched (again) in a perceived and patently false sense of one’s superiority.
So, Jocelyn, just ignore these infantile nincompoops. You and John are the smart ones. Let them wallow in their own dirt. They will need several more kalpas to get where you both are now. Have a good laugh and tell the kids go play marbles or fly kites. Cheerio!
Long time ago, a couple was harrassed first in Houston and then in Australia..he was (is) Chinese and she was (is) white. They had three wonderful super smart kids…one of them finished in the top 5% of the class despite being deaf…the Chinese man was elected the father of the year in Australia in 2009…and the racial taunts continues on websites…however, he and his family are having the last laugh….he is better known to the world as Mao’s last dancer…
Li Cunxin……
More about Li Cunxin….
http://english.ntdtv.com/ntdtv_en/ns_life/2009-09-21/159738368122.html
Sorry to hear about the discrimination, but I think it’s very common for people to assign negative meaining to someone’s race/culture. I’m a white girl dating a Japanese man in New York City. I notice that a lot of Asian people are giving me long stares, up and down, but it’s my friends who bother me the most. These are the people you would expect to be more reasonable.
Even though they know my boyfriend is Japanese, they say things like, “How is your Chinese friend? Ching chong…(etc)” Don’t misunderstand me, I’m just illustrating the point that my friends slur his nationality, try to lessen our relationship by calling him my “friend”, then go the extra mile by slurring the Chinese language. If I say anything about it, they say, “Chinese and Japanese are all the same anyway.” (They think that Cubans and Mexicans are the same, too.) It bothers me that these friends are saying ignorant things and aren’t supportive of the person I care about.
By the way, David mentioned the racism by gender thing, I just noticed that the friends picking on him are white males.
I keep reminding myself that, for whatever reason, it makes them uncomfortable and they display their discomfort by trying to make the object seem smaller, more stupid, uglier, less than, or whatever. (In other words they have the problem, not you.) Not everyone is open-minded.
We can’t see the end result while we are being dragged through the mud, but I’m a firm believer that things come into our lives to challenge us, make us discover new things about ourselves, and deepen our relationships and understanding. It wouldn’t be an opportunity to grow if it were easy.
Wow. I am just overwhelmed by the show of support here in the comments. When I wrote this entry, I felt so isolated and alone — but after reading all of these incredible responses, I feel encouraged and empowered to fight the injustices my husband is currently facing. Just yesterday, we learned that there are likely very excellent possibilities for resolution. In fact, I am very confident that what, at first, seemed like a damning setback for him will in fact turn out to reveal a history of discrimination towards him, and result in justice for my husband, which is most encouraging.
Well, I’ve already lost most of a weekend and a good part of yesterday trying to work on resolving this injustice — so I’m trying to get caught up on my writing this afternoon and evening. Will keep you posted with as much detail as I can share.
Let’s be united and help each other , we will be okay. We must not give a damn about how/what people think. If we all give up now, we will fail badly in the future.
WMAW &, BMAW couples don’t even care why should we care. AMWW should be the same like them. We just care too much so it affect s us. Asian Americans like me whether Im Chinese or Japanese have to bear arms too in time of war. I have to protect and service in military also because this is my home also. Japanese Americans had to do that during wwII. I’m a citizen of the united states and I will protect this land like any Americans. I will die for this country during war time. People only see on the outside that your asian so they label asians all the same! They don’t know you as a person so we must prove them wrong. We don’t have white features so its easy to target us.Just listen to me guys, dont care and don’t give a damn. They will learn why more and more western women are dating, marrying chinese, japanese etc. of course, those racists blame us on everything. Blame it on your greedy ass on shipping allllllll jobs to other countries for cheap taxes and labor for cheap products in the states because of union . Politicans know the problems but people are so dumb to figure out. Asians have the highest income in America and why? We sacrifice our whole life on school while others mess around their lives. Once, they lose their jobs, those ignorants will blame. We have alot of lazy leeches in America.
Jocelyn, I know you can do it for your husband here same like he helped you in china on fighting injustice . Tell those idiots that John works here, he pays taxes here and he will be one if us. every thing for america
“a highly religious community that consisted of 95% white people.”
Thought that Christians were not supposed to be racists!
“By the way, David mentioned the racism by gender thing, I just noticed that the friends picking on him are white males.”
No one picks on me..I dont have a white gf..had one in Singapore but we broke up when I returned to the US. No one harrasses IR couples in Singapore…they will end up in Jail. But, I have seen white guys and girls harrass my friend who works for ICE.
I seem to have come a bit late to this, but nevertheless I’d like to add my voice to the support. You’re not alone. I hope you manage to get this sorted out well.
Hi Jocelyn,
Sorry to hear you guys are facing injustice and racism. Your comment sounds optimistic, so let’s hope for the best.
I have so much to say about the topic, I’m going to blog about this when my girl gives me two minutes. Whatever we, AMWW couples are facing as challenges, it just moves to another level when kids are involved. The comments I heard are just too clueless sometimes, and it’s only the beginning, my baby is only one year old.
move to another county or state
“I’m surprised you never noticed any racism in China. There’s plenty of it here — and it’s not particularly subtle.”
Of course there is racism in China.But it certainly fail to distract me from being appalled at the level of racism in USA.
Before you get any confused,I must say I am not chinese neither I am white.
Your story reminds me of white australian woman I used to studied with in Melbourne.She often boast how Australian is so tolerance,open-minded,multicultural,receptive towards other race and such.There has been several occasions where I tried to tell her that from my interaction with most australians,my perceptions on them are not quite postive.Of course I refrain myself from telling her about it because I’m afraid she might get defensive,ordering me to go back to my own country if I don’t like it here or pointing out racism exist everywhere around the world or racism in my country is much worse than hers(as in the case of S.).
Until one day she came to me wearing a hijab, married to an indian muslim man and began sobbing when she express her disillusion for her country.Her experiences in discrimination,both verbal and physical attacks(from whites of course).
She herself told me that if anyone tried to accuse Australia in being a racist country,she would fought tooth and nail when she disagrees with them.But now she thinks Australia is likely to be the most racist place on earth(her words not mine).
Oh by the way all of this occured before the Cronulla Riots.
Yup job discrimination in some states. We are talking about job
Promotion. We used to have a glass or bamboo ceiling in the work place in SF . So most asian got and formed their own companies. Most of them became millionaires over night in silicon valley.
Even though I am not dating or married to an Asian, or Chinese man, I still facing discrimination for the type of men I am interested in.
Everyday when I go to school, I try to hide it that I like Asian men, but when people find out, and guess, I am embarrassed. BUT, I know I shouldn’t be.
Although there is one guy that said to my friend, and she told me of what he said, “I don’t get it why girls like Korean music and like asian guys. I think it’s stupid.”
There’s always going to be discrimination… -sigh- if only it would stop.
You’re not alone, Jocelyn. :]
We all support you, and hope to hear what happened in your next post.
“Until one day she came to me wearing a hijab, married to an indian muslim man and began sobbing when she express her disillusion for her country.”
You dont have to marry a moslem man to face racism in Australia..be a white guy married to even a rich Chinese Singaporan woman in Perth. My ex-boss’s niece has exactly done that..she clings on to her husband and daughter in public and thumbs her nose at the racists.
“Of course there is racism in China.But it certainly fail to distract me from being appalled at the level of racism in USA.”
There is racism in Singapore as well…however, it is how the authorities deal with it that is different. In the US it varies from place to place. I still think places like Cerritos, CA are the best for AMWW couples or try Honolulu. Idaho is pretty bad. But, if Idaho is bad, try Maricopa County, AZ (be an Asian-white couple detained by the infamous sheriff Joe Arapio and hauled off to jail, because he thinks your Chinese origin husband or wife is an illegal and does not carry his US or any passoport with him or her..or for that matter by Arizona state troopers on the orders of the racist governor Jan Brewer)…or specifically Mesa, AZ…or Mountain Brook, AL, in the now bankrupt Jefferson County or try even the suburbs south of Denver…Littleton, Castle Rock, Pine, Conifer or Bergen Park….I have walked through most of them…in fact, I was there four weeks ago….they plainly dont like any IR couples, particularly having great disdain for Asian-White couples. There are six Asian girls attending Evergreen High School in, Evergreen, CO. From what I hear, bully white girls have told them to stay away from white boys. On the flip side, try any suburb of Seattle, Cerritos, CA, Milbrae, CA, Arcadia, CA, Glendora, CA…and definitely Honolulu.
There are only two non-racist places I know in the world…Winnipeg, Canada and St. John’s Nfld, Canada. Winnipeg has a lot of IR couples and no one gives a damn although there is that 20% WASP (English) racist aristocracy still, but they really dont bother anyone…unless you date their son or daughter. St. John’s Nfld…well not too many minorities there…however, very friendly to outsiders and some of the nicest folks you get on the face of the earth!
Reading this really breaks my heart! <3 I recently realised that when racist jokes are being sent around at work, I happen to be missed off the recipients list… I was surprised at first but they're doing me a favour because usually they aren't actually funny and I would just be incredibly insulted.
About moving to a more tolerant area – I don't think this is a suitable solution for the average person, especially to disrupt your life for other peoples' prejudices. The city I'm from and live in has been estimated to be 95% white and it really annoys me that I might have to consider not living here (and paying considerably more money to live in a tolerant place) just to live a normal life.
Saying that, I think some people annoy me more than having to move. One woman I work with is frequently racist (and generally insulting) but said to me this week that she wants her son to leave this city because it's 'down and out'. I feel so sorry for people like this, how can such an intelligent woman not realise that she makes up part of the problem…
We don’t need to move guys! We will stick it out. Why amww couples have to move to please those people. You don’t see other interracial couples move
David,
I know arcadia,san marino right off huntington library. Valley and garfield road Etc but I don’t live in calif. Anymore. White men w/ asian women act normal in public and AMWW couples act normal too. Its how you think and take care of business. I act like any men out there. We must educate white women and any women out there about allllllll those nonsense things going on. Do you see asian men bully wmaw couples? Asian men must believe in ourselves. We need nobody’s approval. The problem is asian men that we need to save face because we are culturally attached to our roots. Other men don’t care and if we can be like that and more reckless , we will feel and see no problems dating or pursuing any jobs we want. I have changed a long tim
e ago so can you
“Do you see asian men bully wmaw couples?”
All the time. But, when I ask an individual Asian man, whether he will date the young lady who is dating a white guy, their face becomes small. I ran into a Korean guy who made some comment about a Filipina and white couple…but when I asked him whether he will date a Filipina, he told me that his parents will disown him…so it does not affect him..however, a racist rant anyway. Then there was this Vietnamese guy who was commenting about a Chinese woman-white man couple…and when I asked him if he would date the Chinese woman he said no..he wants a Vietnamese woman…although he is not in competition with the white guy for the chinese woman, he had to be a racist ranter anyway. The fact is more than half the Asian men who complain about Asian women dating white men will not date or marry those women anyway…just being racist…that is the good old American way and the Asians have been trained well! A white guy ranting about a Slovenian blonde or even a Argentinian blonde with an an Asian guys is most likely in direct competition with the Asian guy (although not in the case of a light skinned Indian woman with a dark skinned Indian guy)….although it does not make it right…however, in the case of an Asian it is more likely not the situation.
David, why would you think Atlanta is racist? My fiance is white and I am of Chinese decent. We have experienced no problems here at all in the past 3 years. I’ve also lived here for 13 years and I’ve personally experienced racism twice, both times without my fiance next to me.
Thanks so much for the continued outpouring of support — it is so encouraging to hear such positive words from so many people.
I thought I’d give you an update. The matter is currently being investigated, and I have a good feeling that we will reach a positive outcome as a result. It won’t happen immediately, but I am confident we will get there.
“David, why would you think Atlanta is racist? My fiance is white and I am of Chinese decent.”
All power to you. I am glad it is you and not me with a white fiance in Atlanta. Is she from the south? My experience in the Atlanta region…Gainesville, Cumming, Dillard, Dawsonville and in the 1990s they refused to bury a still born baby in a white cemetery because she was half black.
“We have experienced no problems here at all in the past 3 years. ”
Are you in downtown Atlanta?
“I’ve also lived here for 13 years and I’ve personally experienced racism twice, both times without my fiance next to me.”
As I said, I am glad it is you and not me!
I just came back from my vacation and I saw a lot of amwf couples or couples like indians with wf , iranian with wf , etc . I don’t see any ugly white females. They are pretty. If White men walk comfortibly with asian women why can’t asian men do the same? I understand that our population is extremely small compare to other ethnic groups but who gives a damn what others think. do whatever you want as long as you two are happy together and that what counts!! We are outnumbered by wmaw but amwf couples possess the quality. I don’t know about you guys but I pick quality over quanity any day. Sometimes, I really don’t understand some asian men say that women ( any women) won’t give you a chance. My nephew is only 12 and he has lots of white female friends his age hanging out with him. He has to hide from them sometimes. I guess he is adorable and soo cute. My Chinese friends get dates left and right from any type of women also. If you guys get discriminated out there, don’t fear! Get help and be yourself! Before you know it, you will have support from people that you won’t expected. Some people like me will not write on blogs but that doesn’t mean we don’t exist and we don’t care. We do care and will give support when the time is right.
I’m actually the product of a bi-racial marriage myself, although I never thought of it that way. It did, however, teach me a bit about racism. I have some incredibly racist members of my extended (very Southern) family. I’ve been told that my grandfather actually got invited to join the Klan (although he turned them down). They’d always make fun of my Dad and mess up his name on purpose (calling him Juan and Pancho and ever Spanish name but his given one), and when my parent’s marriage fell apart all of a sudden they were much politer to us again. I’ve had to hold my little sister back from intervening during their conversations about Chinese people, and we’ve had a talk with my grandma about how “the blacks” is no longer an appropriate thing to say. We also had some reverse racism – my grandparents on my Dad’s side weren’t happy their son was marrying a white woman. The biggest thing I’ve learned from this, though, is that such people are in an incredible minority here in the US. In fact, the extended relatives I’m referencing are the only truly racist people I’ve ever come in contact with. I have never had another person mention my parent’s race, except in a positive context. Stand strong, and know that those you have encountered are a minority which will soon become extinct.
“It did, however, teach me a bit about racism. I have some incredibly racist members of my extended (very Southern) family.”
Thank you!
“I’ve had to hold my little sister back from intervening during their conversations about Chinese people,”
Likely too smart for them..
“The biggest thing I’ve learned from this, though, is that such people are in an incredible minority here in the US. ”
Mostly confined to the South and places such as Idaho.
It’s great guys,I think everyone’s little bit racist,even English once discriminated American and Australian.now,English still do this to scottish.It takes time to deal with it,If your country became very strong and enough to beat the united states,they don’t have that priority anymore,white males r not born with right to discriminate others,It depends on the country,and culture.western culture is dominant in this world now,chinese once discriminate others when they r strong.so be cool,don’t feel u r lower than others,show your confident.Forza chino!
“It’s great guys,I think everyone’s little bit racist,even English once discriminated American and Australian.now,English still do this to scottish.”
I still think that royal partisans will put Prince William in the dungeon and burn Princess Kate at stake (like they did to Lady Glamis another commoner in the 1500s) if blacks and other minorities were not around. The status of the white Brits (even the lowly serf) is elevated by the presence of other “undesirables” like blacks and at least the dark skinned south asians. Once the royalty looked down on the commoners…now the royalty and the British whites look down on dark skins…looks like humans need someone to despise or hate.
Dont think it will change with economic development and financial security. Mountain Brook Country Club in the now bankrupt Jefferson County of Alabama wont admit non-whites even a rich Chinese multi-millionaire..richer than all the members combined. Old money and new money they say. I say old racism and new racism. Their ancestors were looked down upon as commoners…now it is a great privilege to look down upon the Asians, even Asians richer than them…they have something Asians dont have even if the skin color is same…they have round eyes, different hari colors and most important pointy noses! So, no I am not very optimistic. People will alwyas find some reasons to hate. I am very concerned that we have not heard from Melanie Gao who moved to Tennessee with her Chinese husband, in more than two months. I still think someone deliberately left a dead rat on their drive way to disapprove of their interracial marriage and their mixed race kids. I really hope everything is fine with them.
Yikes! Sometimes I feel bad about not blogging lately and then I think to myself, “No one will notice. There’s so much activity out there in blogosphere. Why do you think anyone will notice if you don’t post for a few weeks?” But wow, David noticed. I don’t know what to say. Except thank you David for noticing. And I promise I will post something asap.
I’m pretty sure the dead rat was there long before we were. And we’re doing great.
Thank you David, really.
Melanie:
Work pretty close to the White House…just two blocks out. I notice your sister now and then…saw her on Washington Week (the program on PBS) three months ago. I have not seen her lately. So it added to my concerns combined with the fact that you are an interracial couple in Nashville, TN….and with all the recent crap in politics…especially with Herman Cain!
Anyway glad to know you all are doing well!
I’m sure WMAW discrimination is NOT the same like AMWW. AMWW couples get bad treatment. We must be united so our fellow asian /chinese men will get recognized as citizens and contribute to this society. Jocelyn, we are always here for you no matter what.
Depends on where you are. In some places in this country WMAW couples are not accepted. But, in most situations you are absolutely right.
The thing is, if it’s not your marriage, it will be something else!! People don’t always accept other people who are different, things that they are not used to. Someone once told me, “the best revenge is to live a good life” – I married my American Irish husband in 1989, I still get the subtle skewed views and comments from his side of family members and friends – oh well, it doesn’t bother me. All I know is that I have and am, living a good life. Chin up, you are one tough chic!!
I would like to say: “Love is a thing you two are getting through. Whatever the others talk about or think about can be thought of as an embodiment of Jealousy or cowardliness inside their soul which drives them not face the global change. ” This is not about discrimination. THIS IS ABOUT THE TRUTH and IDEOLOGY! Nobody lives for what and how the others tell you! You live on your own and for your perfect family! Keep this in mind and you will feel a relief in confrontation of this so-called “Asian guy” discrimination. Asian guys are sexy and the sexy part is not a global truth everybody knows!
I also want to say if China can go back to Kuomingtang era with only 0.4 billion population, there will not be so many Chinese in this world to pressure the other humankind. What a shame! 1.2 billion people really gives this earth a huge surprise! You know, when a kind of people is rare, everybody likes them such as Swedish and Norwegian. Chinese is cursed by themselves on the terrible population number. One Child policy will diminish this curse in this century!
To Gauss Lee, you are son of bitch. Chinese is not evil as your ancestors and we are too gentle to slaughter tens of millions of native people in North America,Austrilia,South America, etc. How do you think your ancestors solved their population problem?
Let me tell you guys here that it’s not about the population!!! It’s about the culture and the high ranking officials period. I know how to change China but sorry I’m not Mainland CHinese. China had never in its history that we went to different foreign lands to kill and destroy other natives. Like I said I know how to change China but we have to kill alot of high ranking officials to accomplish this. Corruptions are the #1 concern in China. The Chinese gov’t can spend $50 Billions on sewage treatment , roads and sanitation but officials from bottom to top take 1/4 to 1/2 of that already. Everything is based on relationship when it comes to business in China. Once you can solve the problems with the public restrooms and sanitations in China, I will tell you more on how to solve other problems…I heard from a friend who works in the Chinese gov’t that China sent people aboard to learn how to solve these problems but these people didn’t do anything or learned anything because they only think about pocketing $$ millions from the Chinese gov’t . I’m Chinese also and I feel very angry on how China has NOT improved our Chinese image. Sorry, I won’t say it.
“when a kind of people is rare, everybody likes them such as Swedish and Norwegian.”
Not exactly. The blacks have the smallest number of people on this planet. Yet they are despised, hated and held in contempt. The Chinese are treated much better than blacks.
“One Child policy will diminish this curse in this century!”
We can all dream. Discrimination is here to stay.
good ole Idaho…
http://theblacksentinel.wordpress.com/2007/07/28/idaho-isnt-racist-enough/#comment-6392
What can one expect? A disgrace really!
“The thing is, if it’s not your marriage, it will be something else!! People don’t always accept other people who are different, things that they are not used to. Someone once told me, “the best revenge is to live a good life”
I totally agree with you. Spot on. I say something similar, “The best revenge is having a fulfilled life.” 😀
Stay strong. You’re doing a great job fighting this kind of intolerance by keeping your blog. Don’t let them weaken that, and don’t let them weaken you.
“He regularly is mistaken for my driver , bodyguard, interpreter or even sometimes people ask if Im his Bosses wife ! He reply, no SHE is my boss. All of these mistakes are by Chinese people !”
I’m not surprised to hear this… but I have had one encouraging experience. I’m volunteering at a school for the children of migrant workers, and on my first day one of the (very cute) Chinese English teachers was showing me around, and before I’d even introduced myself the kids asked if I was his girlfriend!
The greatest damage these racist bigots can do to AMWF couple is to pressure you until your marriage fails. Or make it so difficult that you would even advice your own daughter/son to avoid interracial marriage. In the past this tactic has been fairly successful, as many interracial marriages crumbled under social pressure/perception.
The best you can do is to show these ignorant people how HAPPY you are, with your family. Love is something these hateful people hate to see, because their heart is filled with hatre and negativities.
I completely agree with Tiffany and Eileen,
“The best revenge is having a fulfilled life!”
“Or make it so difficult that you would even advice your own daughter/son to avoid interracial marriage.”
How can a product of interracial marriage avoid interrracial marriage, unless of course such couples start arranging the marriages of their sons or daughters?
“The best you can do is to show these ignorant people how HAPPY you are, with your family. Love is something these hateful people hate to see, because their heart is filled with hatre and negativities.”
The best such couples can do is to move to a more tolerant places within the US. Such places do exist…Honolulu Hawaii and Cerritos, CA are prime examples. Also try the Berkeley campus or come here to Arlington, VA….no one will bother you or threaten you. Otherwise you can go to a neutral country…India…actually there are some white-chinese couples working as expats there…then again, I saw Indian-white couples in China. However, the best place for interracial couples is the Republic of Singapore. Try harrassing one, and you will hear the CID knock on your door. Happened to a couple of white people who were harrassing a chinese-white couple and they were told to cease and desist or could be subject to caning!
When I first came to the USA @ 7 years old. I was singled out for my poor English skills and the fact that I was only one of 2 kids in my class that was Asian. So needless to say it was very hard for me. USA is like any other countries in that if you don’t look or talk the same as the natives, you’ll sometimes get mistreated! My situation was in Los Angeles, not in some midwest place. So you can image how much worst it can be from a place that don’t have a lot of minorities to began with (like midwest). This is sometimes the sad fact of human nature, they will react negatively towards different looking people, so I don’t let it bother me too much!
If the world’s only problem is people reacting to different looking people it is a lucky place. If somehow the world reacts adversely to only different looking people, three quarters of all the wars will end!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/30/small-ky-church-votes-aga_n_1121996.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009
David says:
December 4, 2011 at 10:12 am
Jocelyn:
Dont know where to put this information. This report says that half-Asian kids have problems getting into universities as do Asian kids, because they are very high achievers and super smart…so they classify themselves as white. May be you want to run a blog on this issue….in some respects related to your discrimination post last month….
http://news.yahoo.com/asians-college-strategy-dont-check-asian-174442977.html
Racism is mainly a MALE trait although I don’t deny there are female racists but the large majority of racists are males.
A racist white man who discriminate against asian men who are married to white women, more often than not will NOT discriminate against asian women who married to white men! Why…? Read on if you wanna know why…
Men are built to be competitive with one another, besides this competitive mentality men are also have tribal (brotherhood) mentality too. We band together with other males of the same race and perceive men of other races as our “competitors” or “rivals”.
When an asian woman married to a white man, that’s a “victory” towards white men, whereas when a white women married to an asian man, that’s a lost towards white men. This about it as soccer match. Each time one of their own women married to men of the other team (race) its a goal score towards that team (race). I know it’s silly, but hey… we men are competitive!
This is why a racist white man who complain about white women marrying asian men, have nothing to complain about white men marrying asian women!
“Racism is mainly a MALE trait although I don’t deny there are female racists but the large majority of racists are males.”
Not true! In the black community it is reversed. It is the women who complain. White women are pretty racist when it comes to choosing partners, at least the white American women…most of them have nothing but contempt. Actually, beside white women participating on this blog, and white women in the AMWW magazine, most white women dont like any interracial stuff…in fact most would not even sit next to a non-white person in a metro or public transport at least here in the US. Most Asian American males know this, and that is the reason they dont approach white women for two reasons: (1) it is a loss of face especially if it is with a white woman living in Asia..friends will say he went for a white woman, but got turned down and will laugh. It is easy to call them racists and stand in the sideline and hope the white women make the move…then he gains face; (2) signals from women could be misinterpreted…so the guy is not going to read the ambiguous signals and take a risk…persistence could lead to charges of stalking and harrassment…for white guys it may be ok, but for Asian guys that is a no, no! The Osmond’s song goes…”had they met they would have found a world of joy (but would they have?)” However, one thing they say is true…”he lives on the morning side of the mountain (Asia) and he lives on the twilight side of the hill (in North America or Europe).
And one final thing…I thought slavery was abolished in America back in 1863…no one owned anybody these days…may be I am wrong!
I’m sorry that this happen to Jocelyn and her husband. But being an multicultural society, the USA is by far the least racist country in the world. Even with so many different cultures, we seems to make it work and encourage it ( the saying this country was founded by immigrants is repeated over and over again). But in other countries, multiculturalism is a relatively new concept. Example: Korea is increasingly seeing many foreign couples (korean male with foreign spouses brought over from other countries). I read that they just set up a first in Korea, school just for the biracial children of these foreign parents because of bullying in regular schools.
“Korea is increasingly seeing many foreign couples (korean male with foreign spouses brought over from other countries). I read that they just set up a first in Korea, school just for the biracial children of these foreign parents because of bullying in regular schools.”
Mostly a mixture with other Asians….what we call Asian Americans here. I have one solution for these bullies. Send them as exchange students to some all white high school in Idaho, Mountain Brook High School in Alabama or even the Evergreen High School south of Denver. After being bullied they will return as changed people.
Had an Indian bully who used to bully the lower caste people in India. His dad went to the Uk as a visiting scholar and he studied in an all-white school where he was beaten up and spat on by white kids…he returned to India as a changed boy and last I know he became an advocate for the lower caste people in India and works in the villages.
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My boyfriend and I touched on the topic once. In the end he asked if he should prepare himself for hurtfull words (or something like that). I told him I think it just depends on the person. Not everyone is rude but obviously some people are.
I think especially in my community. I live on the reservation and most of the people here believe you should marry of the same ethnicity and definitely don’t go out of their way to be pleasant to Native’s who are mixed. I’m not mixed but I silenced everyone when I unthoughtfully stated, “I never imagined myself getting married but I always knew that if I did, it wouldn’t be to a Native man.” Reflecting on how it came out, I thought that if I could, I would have explained better. But reflecting on it again, it’s really no ones business if there was more too it than there was.
“In the Native way,” (as they respectfully say) Our extended family is very much the same as our brother, sister, father, mother. There is no second and third cousins….twice removed. Although we have adopted terms as cousin, back in the day, at least in my tribe, there was no word for cousin. Aside from saying, “My mother’s mother” or “father’s sister” the extended family were just Aunties and Uncles. Your cousin’s your brothers and sisters. That being said, my mom raised my brother and I to see our extended and in law similarly. We’re not close to many of them and most we don’t even know on a personal level but we know that they are related and doesn’t matter if it’s by blood or not. Which means our extended family is huge and there are some that we don’t even know but will meet and after talking find out they’re related to someone we’re related to. So unless, I purposely seek out a Native boyfriend/husband from West of AZ, UT, and ID, it’s improbable that it would happen. I also thought I wouldn’t get married because my anal-retentiveness and neurotisism* doesn’t appeal to most Americans.
By chance, I met my boyfriend here on this site, through a post my friend made. I still get discriminated against here on the reservation for thinking outside of collective minds of the tribe. My family (mom, brother, and myself) are quite outsiders for that fact but because I work at the local clinic we’re not totally shunned. Neither would we be if I bring my Chinese husband but that doesn’t mean we wouldn’t be talked about and stared at. I feel unphazed by the thought but my boyfriend seemed a little concerned by it. The more I learn about China, the more I understand. It sucks, that I know the probability of our relationship being accepted at first is slim but either people will come around or they won’t, it shouldn’t affect our life. It sucks that when he is working or just out at the store and stuff, he may have some idiot say something or make a comment but he’s just going to have to develop thick skin.
But I also think that educating people is a positive and not always welcomed thing. I know there are some people at work who once, when they ordered Chinese food stated that they ordered, “Ching Chong Ding Dong.” I was appalled at first when they said it and while still appalled, mostly sad, that they truly thought they were just being funny.
I had a patient joke about one our doctors being a “raghead”. It was over the phone but I just got silent because I didn’t know what to do. I wanted to lecture him but I didn’t want to get into trouble and I certainly wasn’t going to laugh and pretend it was funny. So the patient got quiet and practically yelled, “I was just kidding!” I could hear it in his voice that he truly felt guilty for offending me.
I’m not the type of person to just tut under my breath and shake my head but at work it can be hard to speak up but there have been times when I would state that something was inappropriate and got stared at as if I’m from a different planet.
I think no matter who you are, there are times when you will be discrimated against. We should all be pro-active in ending discrimination. “You can’t change the world but you can make a dent.” Death to Smoochy. With enough the dents, the world be have changed. ^_^
(sorry if I went off topic…I just can’t keep myself from rambling.)
It’s perfect time to make some plans for the future and it is time to be happy. I’ve learn this put up and if I may I want to suggest you few fascinating issues or suggestions. Maybe you can write next articles referring to this article. I want to learn even more issues approximately it!
As a brown-skinned guy, I find that most guys feel offended when they see a woman of their race with a man of an outside race. I’ve seen white men and Asian men become very upset when confronted with an interracial couple where “their” women is with a man of a different race. I think it’s just a standard male reflex, especially for monoracial people. As a mixed guy with a diverse background, I tend to feel little to no offense in similar situations.
I’m a American Chinese who is married to an European woman. We have spent time in traveling the U. S. west coast, but most of our time are spend in Europe. We have not experience any overt racism. If there had been racism expressed subtly, neither one of us was able to detect it. I always try to treat people with respect, but I am always ready to aggressively confront anyone verbally with reason. Discrimination requires confrontation to destroy the discriminator’s ignorance and prejudice. As a trained martial artist, I am also ready to confront anyone who threaten us physically. You’ll be amazed how much respect people give you when they know you are a person of consequence, the threat is simply not worth the risk. I suggest at the slightest hint of prejudice, fight back with reasons.
White men are known for their immense hypocrisy. I was linked to this article from another, and in that there were the casual dropping in from white men of the “positive” asian stereotypes for women (submissive, clever) whilst denigrating the asian men and white women… some even mentioned why black men aren’t suitable for white or asian women, but obviously white men are…
Of course they then try to divert articles like this one with their own stories of racism. Oh no, chinese man stared at me with my chinese wife half my age on the street! They said gwailo!!!
Compare this to the racism in white countries and of course there is no contest. But yet they persist on the double standards and the drip drip effect of demeaning other races whilst promoting their own.
Racism is still alive today so be careful! I have learned a lot of things in my life that we shouldn’t judge people on how different they look ( don’t judge a book by its cover). Most people look extremely mean but damn when you get to know them, they turn out to be the most honest , the kindest and the most dependable people . Martial artist huh? That’s wonderful, Thinking Man! My grandfather had his own martial art school 80 yrs ago in a village in China. I was told he beated up 3 cops when he was framed for something. He had so much intensity in him during that time.I really believe in genetic now since I know my grandpa and my father ‘s temper ,personalities. Now I know why I have such interests in my life. Martial Art was not taught to westerners because Chinese people afraid they could become arrogant ( bullies) but Bruce Lee changed that for the good. It’s a good thing. Think positive and things will be fine no matter who discriminate ya or put you down. We live our own lives. They can not say what is best for us because they know nothing that’s why we have laws that change constantly. This world is changing (Some areas slow , some areas fast)
Jeff
I recently encountered a white man who converted to islam 2 years ago.He told me how arab/pakistani society are so racist against him.So I inquired about his experiences with them.He claimed no matter how hard he tried to be friendly it seems almost everyone keep treating him as an outsider and how his marriage proposals to women of the community keep being rejected.My only reaction to him is ….
That’s it??!!
I’m not trying to negate his experience but I actually expect a much worse experiences like we POCs have faced.
I am malaysian-pakistani woman by the way.
Exactly sebhai! ALL racism is wrong, but when (usually white men) introduce their own experiences of racism – usually in their own, white majority country – I think, ARE YOU FOR REAL?? Minorities in those countries – whether they are in an interracial relationship or not – have to experience daily physical, psychological (e.g. stones thrown at their window, graffiti/dog poo at their door) as well as verbal abuse, and despite equality laws bosses and employees (and customers) do not hesitate to be racist – multiply this over a lifetime, and when a white man comes in and says “well I get looked at all the time”, I think arrrghh, you have no clue.
Racism is universal. Here in China I was discriminated against by my ex-gf’s family. Not Chinese- not good enough. Even her boss told her to break up with me.
With the current gf, I told her that one of the first things she must do is tell here parents about me. She did, and now we are proceeding.
read other blogs and you will come across asian men being discriminated against by his white gdf’s family, friends and society. Indeed many recoil in disgust at the sight of such a couple…
Discrimination is more so here in China and in other East Asian countries because you have this whole family pure blood line thing going on! Marriage is pretty much based on how you can perpetuate the family name to the future generation. Even down to what region of the country your family is from is closely scrutinize! So its not surprising that a foreigner will face opposition from the family if he/she wants to marry.
As I was saying above…..
Come back and talk about racism when you have white pride rallies outside your front door.
Hi my friend. Sorry for how much you are suffering. This may be unpopular writing advice, but I might suggest letting yourself *not* write if it’s too hard. When I was going through my 4 years of medical treatment, I was way too depressed and overwhelmed most of the time to write. And I felt terrible about it. But when I was ready, I began to write again, and then the book deal followed. So I don’t always agree with the pressure writers put on themselves that they have to write every day, no matter what. In any case, thinking of both you and John.
I didn’t have to marry a Chinese person to know how hypocritical we are, I just had to make friends with our Chinese student. She told me about a new bill that’s been purposed in California that would block Asian students from attending some colleges and I felt disgusted.
I haven’t heard about that. What are the details? How are they possibly justifying it? I can’t imagine it would get through.
I’ve felt it a lot too, dating my Japanese boyfriend. I wrote a post about the things people say when I merely mention I’m studying Japanese:
http://brinkling.wordpress.com/2014/04/28/things-people-say-when-i-talk-about-japan/
Pretty soon I’ll write one about what people say when they find out I’m dating a Japanese man. The list will be shorter but more vile. 🙁
It’s sad how there’s this sort of subtle hint of, “why? You’re superior, you’re white!” Sometimes it feels like people have already made so many judgements without getting to know him. It makes me feel sad that they’ll never see what I see in him.
Do you know where in the world an AMWF couple wouldn’t be discriminated against? Singapore! =)