As a foreign woman with a Chinese husband, I couldn't help but wonder why we're so rare
When I’m in China, I tend to turn a lot of heads, especially in the countryside — and that’s not just because I’m a foreigner. It’s because I’m often seen holding hands with my Chinese husband.
It’s true — the sight of a foreign woman and Chinese boyfriend or Chinese husband is much rarer than its counterpart, the foreign man and Chinese woman.
If you go to any major city in China, you will invariably run into the foreign man-Chinese woman pairings in any major tourist or shopping destination; not so with foreign women and Chinese men. It’s easy to gauge this reality on the website Candle for Love (CFL), devoted to helping US Americans bring their loved ones over from China. CFL is like a tidal wave of American men in love with Chinese women, with only a rare American woman/Chinese husband surfacing to break the monotony.
There are hardly enough books depicting foreign women with Chinese boyfriends or husbands. Off the top of my head, I can think of Rachel DeWoskin’s Foreign Babes in Beijing: Behind the Scenes of a New China
Several years ago, when my husband enrolled in a New Oriental class in Shanghai for GRE prep, the instructor warned all of the Chinese men: “If you’re going to study abroad, prepare for four lonely years.” The underlying message was, don’t expect to fall in love — but be pleasantly surprised if it happens.
When you have a Chinese husband or boyfriend, sometimes you feel as if you belong to a lonely club. I’m not the only one. One of my dearest e-mail friends, a woman from Germany, once found me on the net because she had a — then — Chinese boyfriend and yearned to find someone to share her experience with.
So I began to wonder — why are there so few Chinese guys and foreign girls becoming couples?
Of course, some of it has its roots in the usual stereotypes — stereotypes in the Western World.
According to Sheridan Prasso’s book, The Asian Mystique: Dragon Ladies, Geisha Girls, & Our Fantasies of the Exotic Orient
If there are some admirable aspects of the portrayals of Asian women in Hollywood and on TV, it’s hard to say the same of the portrayals of Asian men. Rarely have they been depicted with traditionally masculine traits. With a few exceptions, Asian men on screen have been small, sneaky and threatening — or spineless, emasculated wimps, or incompetents who may well be technically proficient in martial arts, but impotent when faced with white man’s superior strength or firepower. Lacking machismo, they almost never get the girl.
The article Sex & the Asian Man also touches on many of Prasso’s observations, including the passionless warrior:
Even today, Asian American men complain that action heroes such as Chow Yun Fat and Jackie Chan rarely get the girl. As Leong, the author and UCLA professor put it: “Asian men can kick butt, but they can’t have a kiss.”
It gets a little more personal in blogs, such as posts titled Us Bitter, Bitter Asian Men or Sucks to be an Asian male.
Still, there’s another perspective.
I’ve had Chinese guys refuse me because they felt, as a traditional man, they could never see themselves married to a foreign girl. However, the subtext is often that foreign women are a dangerous choice — too casual, the temptress, etc — or could not accept a Chinese way of life. Generally, the pressure to split up comes from the family since, after all, in China, marriage is a family affair.
There was one Chinese boyfriend who told me, flat out, that his parents would never accept me. I don’t doubt he loved me in the beginning — but once his family knew, I suspect they made it clear that there was no future in what we had. Even my own husband was first told by his parents that he could be friends with a foreign girl, but not date her. Fortunately, their ideas changed when they met me in person!
On the other hand, there are Chinese men — and their families — who would be happy to have a foreign woman in the family. But there are other complications. For example, my good friend in Hangzhou, Xiao Yu, once told me that some Chinese men cannot overcome their feeling of inferiority — that being an American girl, a citizen of one of the most powerful countries in the world, made my presence somewhat intimidating. According to Xiao Yu, some Chinese men could never believe that such a girl would become their one and only.
And then there are the more unmentionable reasons.
A driver who took me to the Beijing Airport this summer admitted he once had a Russian girlfriend when he was a college student. But he said he was never able to satisfy her (yes, in that way), so they parted. The experience was so traumatic that he never sought another foreign girlfriend again.
On the flip side, I suspect that some foreign women might be unwilling to give Chinese men a chance because of money. Average Chinese men tend not to earn big salaries in China, unless they are, for example, bosses, high-powered execs, or an in-demand talent. And if they are to leave China to go to her country, they will face even more obstacles to earning money — language, culture, prejudices.
Still, despite the odds, sterotypes and other barriers, it does happen that Chinese men and foreign women get together. It happened for me — and a growing number of other women, including bloggers such as the Local Dialect, Lost Laowai, and Wo Ai Ni. On occasion, it even creeps into the news, like this story.
For now, though, I’m just happy to have John, my Chinese husband, in my life. Not because he’s a Chinese man, or because our relationship is “unique” or different. But because I love him.
Are you a foreign woman with a Chinese boyfriend/Chinese husband? Or are you a Chinese man dating or married to a Chinese woman? What’s your take on this? What did I miss? I’d love to hear from you!
Posts Like This One:
- Ask the Yangxifu: How Chinese men can meet foreign women in China
- Ask the Yangxifu: How Western Women Can Meet Chinese Men in China
- Ask the Yangxifu: How can Western women and Chinese men get along – as a couple?
- Western Wives, Chinese Husbands — Guest Interview Piece at Middle Kingdom Life
- A Chinese boyfriend/Chinese husband and foreign woman 30 years ago, through “Son of the Revolution”
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I’m a Chinese born American male living in the U.S. and I have been married to my Caucasian wife for almost 2 years. Despite me living in the U.S. for 2 decades, I still have some customs she finds tough to overcome…especially the food, she can’t stand most real Chinese foods. Despite this, we have overcome much and love each other. And yes, we do get alot of looks while in China, and there are alot more foreign men with Chinese women than the reverse.
Yi, it’s true. The reason is that the Hollywood movie only promotes AF/WM relationships NEVER the other way around. Also China is not as wealthy as the United States and other western countries. However this is not the main reason. If you look at Japan and Korea for example, over it is still mostly AF/WM not the other way around even though Japan and Korea are just as rich. So you now know the main reason.
We Chinese/Japanese/Koreans have to work extra extra hard to overcome this bullcrap. The main thing we need to focous on is sports, if we can do well in sports then we will become much stronger and much more confident then our image will change. But Yi it is changing now. You know the recession hit western world hard and many Chinese women lost their interets in western men. So look on the bright side.
Angie, good for you that he likes you. You know that there are many guys in China like western women just like Chinese women. However Chinese men are afraid to date you because they heard all the bad sterotypes about them and the western media and movie made it even worst. But dont worry changes are on the way, stay positive.
I have a Chinese boyfriend that moved to America 4 years ago. We have been dateing for a few months now and every day we go out to do something diffrent. Were i’m from there are alot od Chinese, Japanese and Koreans but, you never see them with an American women. Everytime my boyfriend and I go out we get stared at and pointed to. My boyfriend Xun never said anything about it so I think he just didnt care. At first it bothered me but, I figured that if it didnt bother him then it shouldnt bother me. My family at first didnt like him because he was from another country but, after a wile of talking about how great our relationship it they came to like him.
We havent met each others family yeat. His parents dosnt think that our relationship would last becasue, hes from China and i’m American. Xun and I had a long talk about it. He dosnt find it in his familys favor that it would end. He tells me just because hes from China that it dosnt make a diffrence. Hes here living in America now. His family has yeat to meet me but, i’m sure they will love me.
I think it has been commonly said that a lot of guys may be afraid that their parents will not approve. Did their parents ever consider that there is a huge gender disparity? Or would they prefer their son die alone? What hateful parents. Besides, what ever happened to living your life how you want it?
Personally I couldn’t care less what my parents thought of who I dated.
To slipknot: sorry to hear your terrible experiences. I’m sure if your mother didn’t shove the negativity in your face you’d feel better about things. I’m sorry your mother hates you and doesn’t want the best for you; what kind of mother would feel that way towards her own son!? Only an asian woman can be so hateful. I’m glad you are working towards a post graduate degree. Despite being ‘nerdy’ it is what will give you power. It makes me feel good that you have the fire in you to make a change, to not let others break you down. Stay strong and never give up. If you falter, it means more work for the rest of us asian guys.
ps, jocelyn, thanks for posting this, it is always interesting to get the non asian woman’s perspective. This post is getting quite the buzz over the whole internet!
asdf. My mom is a seflhating sell out Chinese women just like the typical Asian women. After what I have gone through I can NEVER marry or even date an Asian girl anymore. I am distant to marry White girls. I have a fantasy that is to marry a Nordic girl or American girl with Nordic desenct. Funny hum? But I can not help it. This is why all of a sudden I changed myself.
1. I care about my fashion now, I wear much better clothing to make myself look even better(Since I am already a good looking guy).
2. I try hard to get rid of my accent, and now I speak English almost perfectly with very little accent.
3. I work out at the gym try to get toned musle and look even better.
I am ready to rock and roll.
One thing I hope all my fellow Chinese brothers to do is to Marry None-Chinese women. Chinese women are SPOILED, they are not worth it anymore!!! Not only do they sell out themselves but they also make up Bullsh!t lies about Chiense men to make themselves feel even better. Please my fellow Chinese men: WAKE up, STAND up and just DO IT!
I really think in the near future the opposite is going to be prevalent, like the inter-racial/inter-cultural/inter-national couples with Chinese husbands/boyfriends/partners might overshadow the couples with Chinese females. I’m just making a guess because with the gender disparity, how mobile many Chinese tend to be even spreading out througout the world and with such a (still heavily patriarchal in many ways) family-oriented background, nearly every Chinese male would strive possibly pressured to have a stable “official status” relationship.
I could be wrong.
I think it will. As China gets rich, it certainally will. The Chinese media is controled by Chinese men unlike the US media controled by White Jewish men. So Chinese media will heavly promote Chinese men to date western women and more and more young, tall, good looking, rich Chinese men will be open minded to date western women. So I think it will change too.
BTW, there are already sings of Chiese media promoting such things. Just watch CCTV, and some Chinese movies. You will see it. Chinese men are NOT as weak and scared as western men think.
Also, I am one of those tall, goodlooking, young well educated Chinese men who finds western women much more attractive than Chiense girls and at least half of my Chinese male friends think the same way.
Greetings to everyone!
I am a forty-one year old American lady, (Read: I am a “mutt” of European and Native American Indian stocks.), engaged to be married to a mainland Chinese gentleman. We met online about a year ago, and we have another two years to go before we can safely marry… Our story may, or may not, surprise you…
I was born to a pair of self-made wealthy entrepreneurs in the aerospace industry, yet, despite my parent’s ultra-liberal lifestyle, my own formative years were a misery of neurotic control and deprivation. The one time I broke free and chose my own mate, my parents stole my son and paid his father to leave with our son to another country. I have not seen my son for over fifteen years now, and I doubt he even knows who I am.
I finally quite literally “divorced” my family, but for all the kudos I received in taking this action, I still felt a profound shame and unshakable sense of being absolutely “alone”. I stopped dating at first because I really needed to get my head and heart together, and, just as importantly, create a new life and sense of worth for myself. In time I enrolled in college, something my parents would never let me do, and I started my own small business.
I was in my mid-thirties before I felt emotionally ready to date again, and the expected initial disasters of being too long out of the dating scene happened, though thankfully, these mostly proved to be funny in hindsight.
I will call my fiance “wanju xiong” here, as this is what I call him in person anyway. (Bright Smile). I thought that because he was an older Chinese man, and a government official too, that I would be a pariah to him, not the other way around. His response to me took me utterly by surprise…
I was honest to him from the beginning, though the details were spread over a few months, and I even went so far as to admit that I was on good terms with only one of my blood relatives, and I told him about my past in more detail than I related here. After all was said and done, and almost a week of no response, I assumed I had chased him away, but that is when I received this single line response…
“I would like for you to belong to my family…” I was stunned, and I had to ask him many times before I could accept his answer.
I love my “wanju xiong” because he has consistently proven to be more of a man than many of the men I have met over the years. He is everything I need to feel both secure and independent, a gentle and yet firmly reliable presence in my life and spirit, and we never run out of things to talk about to each other. For over a year now he has never failed to make me laugh, smile, feel optimistic, and he is loving and supportive in everything I do. He and my good relative get along extremely well, and I am beginning a great relationship with his son from a long-extinct previous marriage. Yes, he is an extraordinary cook, and he tried to make me use chopsticks so I would eat slower than him, but the cooking is so good, I aced using the chopsticks! (Laughing Loudly!) Above all, he is gifted with the ability to be an extraordinary companion.
The reason why our relationship works so well is precisely because he is as he puts it, “a very ordinary Chinese man…” His strong sense of family, his gentle and abiding nature, his balance of pride and humility, and his companion-ability are not just a part of his nature, these qualities are a part of his culture too. The perfect man for me is located literally on the other side of the planet, and I never would have found him if not for the internet and for the efforts of people who were determined to break down the barriers of ignorance, fear, and the resulting prejudices. I have so many reasons to be grateful…
We must wait two more years until he retires before we can officially tie the knot. If we married right now he would be severely investigated by his government and he would lose his retirement benefits, for which he has worked hard for over 30 years to acquire. I call, and I visit him in China, every chance I can, and it is our hope that he can move here to America with me when he retires.
Well, that is my two cents anyways… (Smile!) I would welcome any constructive comments regarding how to make his American citizenship any easier, and tips on how he can adjust and get a job when he arrives here. Thank you so much for your patience and regard! Phoenix Dawnsinger.
Phoenix,
Wow, what a story — I am so delighted to hear from you, and to hear that you found a new life, family and home with a wonderful Chinese man. Congratulations, and thank you so much for sharing!
On the visa/American citizenship question, your best bet is to visit Candle for Love. It’s a website specifically for US citizens helping their Chinese loved ones to immigrate — the information is invaluable, and you won’t find a better source for navigating the process. Good luck!
Feichang ganxie ni, Jocelyn!
I have signed onto the “Candle for Love” website and I am currently waiting to see if the administrators will give their approval for me to begin posting. Thank you you for being so kind, encouraging, and helpful. I hope I can see posts from you at the “Candle for Love” site too.
Yours in gratitude, Phoenix Dawnsinger
Thank you for sharing your story. You are right that Chinese men are like that. In fact I am like that too, even though I am young.
Wow, never thought I would come across this when googling ‘Chinese Boyfriend’.
I am a western girl in Shanghai and I do like the Chinese men, not too much experince but I am learning as I go along. Thanks to everyone for sharing your stories. Hopefully I will have my own story to post in the future.
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Hi,
I am a 26 year old Australian who met my Chinese / thai husband in university 8 years ago. We have been married for 4 years and have lived both in Australia and in Thailand.
I am moving back to Thailand next month so that my husband can work for their quite successful family business.
I have found that marrying a Chinese man comes with a lot of concerns. I love my husband very much but find that his family have too much influence over our life and marriage. For example, they want us to live in their house, they want to pay for everything, they get involved in issues which are really only our own. I love them dearly and am very grateful for their help, but by accepting their help I loose my own independance.
Can anyone please give me advise on how to manage this situation whilst still remaining respectful of their culture and them?
Thank you, Karmen
Greetings Karmen!
I understand and sympathize, as I have a rough time when my fiance meddles deeply in my uncle’s dating life, allows his twenty year old son to decide on matters relating to our very intimate lives, gives me orders, and is in effect an autocrat backed by a filial committee that will ever see me as the “foreigner”… It’s a permanent part of the package.
I cannot weigh in on a four year marriage, as I have only be an observer of the best and worst of my family’s marriages, and my own experience in matters of pair bonding is rather limited.
That said, I am operating on what kept my twenty-plus years of friendships strong even after the worst of acid tests, including being housemates with a few of the more interesting ones for a long stretch of years apiece.
What works for me is to take a deep breath and do the following reality check… I remember with as much objectivity as I can muster, what my life was like before my Wanju Xiong came into it, and then, I look at my life as it is right now. I literally weigh the good and the bad. The criteria is simple… Is my life just a little bit happier, safer, more stable, and more productive, just a little more often, than it was before I brought him in? When we argue, do I automatically think of ways to leave or worse? Or, do I automatically think of ways to create a compromise that will work for both of us. On some days, it’s a really close call, but when I think of the alternative, I am humbled yet empowered at the same time.
I’m sorry, but the filial dominion is eternal, the only route is passive resistance. Pay the bill before they can, praise your husband’s advise and independence without asserting an opinion on the family, or, put in a pleasant but noncommittal comment if required. Let the parents think that their input matters, and let them win the skirmishes, and I promise you, it will not cost you an otherwise wonderful marriage… In a word, pick your battles wisely, because regardless of his family or their race, the ultimate answer to an ultimatum is always, “no”. Never, never, make your husband chose between you or his family because that will ensure that you lose. On the other hand, don’t let the parents become your cross to bear. Keep being yourself, if husband complains, tell him you are still the lady he married, and kindly ask him who changed the script just because the parents want to crawl into the matrimonial bed?
Remember you are an Australian, and I think it’s safe to assume that your husband should be grateful he was spared from having to cope with your own set of meddling relatives. Add to this perspective that, if your marriage did not turn him into an Australian it didn’t change you into a Chinese person. Compromise ends where one’s real identity begins. The tough of this is, you must first convince your husband, and then ,only he can convince his family. Diplomacy, tact, enduring patience, and a very carefully considered bottom line are needed here. I wish you a ton of good luck and good results.
Faithfully, Phoenix Dawnsinger
Hi Karmen,
I agree with Phoenix, that often it’s your husband who will serve as the “bridge” and help smooth things over. You should definitely tell your husband your concerns. Let him know what you value, and how you want to live.
In every marriage like ours, there is going to be compromise but that doesn’t mean you have to compromise everything. Over the years, my husband has come to understand and appreciate my independent, feminist side — and he has been able to allow me to be me without wrecking family dynamics. It helps that he praises me in front of them in ways that they understand (i.e. how I bake fantastic chicken wings for John). They have a better impression of me, and are more likely to be understanding of my more independent, feminist side.
Also, I have found it pays to show an interest in the family — for example, I’ve learned cooking from my Mother-in-law. I ask my father-in-law to do calligraphy on scrolls or small cards I give to friends/family. This builds good will and a relationship. When we come, I present them with vitamins as gifts — considered “filial” behavior. All of this creates more goodwill, and more understanding.
Really, though, the best thing to do is…start with your husband. Talk to him. He may be able to figure out tactful ways to achieve what you want so you’re happy, and his family is happy.
Also, realize that your husband’s family may be doing a lot of the things you mention to show their love and concern — not to control you. Keeping things in perspective can help diffuse the tension, and hopefully lead to more understanding.
Good luck, and do let me know how things turn out.
Best,
Jocelyn
Thank you Phoenix and Jocelyn.
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your comments and advice. What you are saying is true, my husband is the love of my life and I would hate for that to change. At the end of the day, these really are small issues in what can be a wonderful life together.
It is also nice to know that other’s are / have been in the same situation as me. It can be lonely sometimes to think you’re the only one who is going through a particular situation.
Thank you again, I really appreciate it. I will write again once I have moved to keep you up to date.
Karmen X0
I was just trying to use google to find a way to meet foreign girls here in China and consequently found this blog. I decided to come to university in China just to study Chinese because it’s so different from English. I thought that this would be the perfect way to meet someone with whom I could have much in common. How painfully right I was.
She was Russian. She got a new job and I quit university to follow her. She started making money on her own and didn’t need me to pay for everything so it was over quicker than it started.
I have had Chinese dude friends who were totally cool and I tried to set them up with random foreign girls but most foreign girls have already made up their minds about love be it not to live in China long enough to care about anybody – or that Chinese guys are just lame. Both of these suppositions are sucky and self-centered at best however for single girls you do need a thick skin to live here and being an asshole is just a necessary side-effect.
Greetings Everyone!
Jocelyn, in utter seriousness, if you ever offer classes in tact and finesse I want the first invite. What’s really great is, when you gave Karmen your advise, I found plenty for me in there too, so, my thanks too!
Karmen, it’s easy to lose perspective when you feel like your going it alone. We are here for you, and know that you’re letting us know that we are not alone too. Please stick around! (Bright Smile!)
Louieman and other folks with the chip on your shoulders, here’s my two cents…
Being my usual demure and tactful self, I can say from experience that being an asshole is an explanation, not an excuse. It’s a lot easier to hate than to love because hate remove the labor and conscience necessary to be held accountable for one’s own words and actions. I’ve lived with assholes my entire life and never once did the explanations for being a jerk excuse their behavior. Let’s call a kettle a kettle, shall we?
See Jocelyn, I really need to take a few of your classes…
All that said, I am familiar with the circumstances you speak of… My Wanju Xiong (Toy Bear or Teddy Bear- Mandarin Pinyin Chinese) is a very handsome fellow with a truly wonderful personality, his son is gorgeous by any racial standards, and I am a head-turner even at my age. It’s abundantly obvious to anyone who sees us together that the love is quite real and present in massive doses. Still, no matter which racial company we keep, I am invariably asked why a woman of my caliber would chose a Chinese man, and, my fiance is just as frequently asked how he managed to get and keep me. I am past taking offense anymore, and after awhile, I began to wonder what caused these comments in the first place.
Well, there’s a lot of ignorance, conceit, rude, and hardening of the attitude going on in the world, and I’m here to tell you, there’s no broad-spectrum or one-size-fits-all cure for this condition. Sometimes the hardest part of choosing to be a product of your own shaping rather than to be a perpetual victim of circumstances is to find the power to consistently walk away from the things that hurt you every time the challenge arises. People are only able to hurt you if you enable them… I can talk about my past because it doesn’t hurt me anymore, his gift to me was to disarm that weapon. My gift to him was to prove that I could love him with equally unconditional love. We are facing so many battles, and we would not have made it this far without that commitment.
Beyond that fact, there’s plain old insecurity…
#1… If it’s worth cherishing, then you damned sure will not give it away to anyone who asks, and you’ll protect it with dignity, reverence, and a knowledge of it’s real worth. If you’re throwing away everything you are and have, to win someone, then you can expect to be thrown away in turn.
#2… Love is about an abiding faith, trust, and investment that surpasses hope, lust, insecurity, and complacency. You have to know why you are worth that kind of investment before you can ask someone else to make that investment in you.
#3… You’re special, and if that means not everyone will like you, much less love you, realize that the people who will love you will be just as rare as you are. Make yourself the person you want and need to be, set realistic, practical, honest, and achievable goals, and then stick to your guns. Wait until the people who can love you in truth, in whole, and as you are, prove that they really do love you for you. I had to wait over thirty years, you shouldn’t have to wait more than a few months of honest insight and constructive change. It takes twenty-one consistent and dedicated efforts to form a new habit, get started…
If we could do it, so can you!
Faithfully, Phoenix Dawnsinger
Phoenix Dawn, do you still remember the song “How deep is your love” by Bee Gee.
A lot of people are just foolish, jelouos, and full of hate some times. They only want to see things they like to see, in this case AF/WM. So when they see the other way around, they get upset and MAD. Try to break you down, when they all should just let you be.
Louieman, I saw your blog and read some of your stories. Man, you are full of SH!T.
Greetings everyone!
Hey Slipknot, your back! How are ya?
Gentlemen, fertilizer has it’s own merits…
I work and learn at my local university, and on a few occasions at the end of the semester, I goof around with the kids. I am almost abnormally strong, so I can pick husky young male students, carry them down the hall, set them down next to the potted plants, and comment dryly on how all “potted plants” should be organized in to attractive groupings, and if one of said “plants” has proven to be a provider of much fertilizer, then our amazing talking turnip can share with his peers.
And right around this time is when the kids gang up on me, carry me out to the collection of life-sized statues at the center of the campus, and deposit me in a ridiculous pose next to the bronzes. Thereupon I am dryly told that the statues are far wittier than myself, that they give far less boring lectures, and even they will refuse to be held as my captive audience, preferring instead to slowly inch away and summons the pigeons while I drone another lullaby.
Guess how this one ends? Well, everyone busts a gut laughing and we walk across the street for pizza and beer. A tradition that is running into it’s fifth year…
I am sleepless tonight because in a few days, I must do something that breaks my heart. I must tell a lady I love very much “goodbye forever”. They say fear and hate are father and son, and my experiences have proven that maxim is true. My dearest friend was very badly abused as a child, and nobody feels more compassion for her than I do. The lady grew up to raise two children without abusing them, but she never sought professional council for her past. As two battles with near-fatal rounds of cancer blended with four failed marriages, the lady’s old fears returned. The fear became sorrow, but sorrow immobilizes and she needed motivation. She found it in anger. Initially, the anger helped to fight against her plight, and for a short time, she was on top again. But anger is an all-consuming sickness, no less deadly and twisted than her cancers were, and the inevitable happened. In a nutshell, she utterly destroyed her life, ensured she would always be alone, and she finally drove away the family and friends who abide her increasingly criminal acts of venom for over twenty years. She blames us, and she is right.
How do you think this one ends? We had to acknowledge that our unconditional love had actually enabled a very sick woman to make us sick too. No matter how strange, cruel, or wonderful, people will remain true to the habits that fulfill the real needs of their real natures. If a vampire must bite innocent victims to change them into vampires, then they will do as their nature dictates, regardless of your love, actions, wishes, or words. How can we save someone from the behavior that makes them feel better, even when that behavior is doing them and others so much harm? You can’t.
I am reminded of a time when my great grandparents made me stand and observe a line of trees that had been used by a fella to create a natural fence. My “Adawehe” said, “In the years when I was your age now, a lightening strike burned this entire patch of forest to the ground. My brothers and I gathered seeds from the few remaining trees and what you see here is our investment. These trees are brothers and sisters; all are the same age, and all have endured the same blessings and hardships. A man wrapped barbed wire around all of them, but while some trees lived, others died. Can you see the reason why?” I studied the trees very hard, and after a brilliant childhood epiphany, it occurred to me to think of the trees as living entities that can feel and move away from pain as any animal would. The trees that died literally pulled their bark away from the barbed wired until the tree’s sap “bled out”, and disease and bugs took care of the rest. The trees that lived created massive bark scars around the barbed wire, shielding their vulnerable “green flesh” from the damages of rubbing barbs. I said as much to my grandfather, to which he smiled and commented…
“This phenomenon is not uncommon, and it is often used by our folk to teach a lesson in human as well as plant behavior. We can think of the barbed wire as the hate, greed, jealousy, and apathy that slowly saw their ways into our core being. The ones who respond to harm by inflicting harm, even if to only themselves, are consumed within by a force that is even more destructive than the original source of their pain. They are dead, attractive only to things that consume the dead. The trees that lived show us that choosing to heal is a choice to live too. These trees chose to be survivors rather than victims, and their continued lives benefit all.”
My great-grandmother nodded her head impatiently, and after a short absence, she returned with a small hand ax. To my horror, she began to hack at the scars of the living trees. I tried to stop her, but her husband detained me with a sad smile.
My grandmother replied… “Yes, these trees can be said to be the teachers of human nature, even in this matter… If you do not remove that source of pain quickly with the help of knowledgeable and determined persons, that damned “barbed wire” will become lost inside a lot of “scar tissue” even as it’s continued presence in it’s original dangerous form remains. The tree heals and grows, but the barbed wire is chewing it’s way into an outwardly expanding heart, strangling the tree from within. And so a tree that has survived so much can still be slain invisibly and by degrees so many years later, by the very same adversity that taught it to be strong…”
My own words can hardly match the moment… Time to stand by my bronze buddies right now, and wonder what the real nature of “fertilizer” is… Ugh! Thanks pigeons, I can do with a much less graphic illustration of it!
Love ya! Phoenix Dawnsinger.
Thankyou so much Slipknot for reading my blog! Which part did you read? I assure you that they are not stories, I update so infrequently that believe me I’ve had time to compile only the weirdest of experiences. Are you in China too?
Check back often and don’t be a stranger, buddy!
p.s. my name is 路易.
The reason why I think foreign girls rarely date Chinese guys is because of politics and national policy in China. You know how open and free the west is. However, China is exactly opposite because it is a communist state. The civilians are pressured by the Chinese government. For example, internet censorship is a major issue in China. The chinese government blocks a lot of websites such as youtube, facebook, twitter, any politically sensitive sites and porn sites. It’s like there is barely freedom in China. Because of those kind of policy, Chinese people are pretty conservative. Therefore, why would a foriegn girl wanna marry a Chinese guy and live in a country with this kind of policy? It’s all Chinese girls that marry foreign guys and rely on them so they can live in the west and enjoy the freedom and openness of the west. This is what I think!
I am a nice ,cute chinese guy …want a western woman , lol ….living in southeast of china ,Wenzhou city .
contact me ,if u interested in : aussie@yeah.net
Tony, what you said is BullSh!t. The reason why foreign women rarely date Chines emen are: 1. China is still not as wealth as the west yet, but she is getting there. So imagine a low income Chinese man date a high income western woman, you can clearly feel the insecurity complex that Chinese man will face. 2. The western media put Harsh and horrific sterotypes against Chinese men, and since most western women are brain washed by their media, they look down on Chinese men at the first place therefore, will not even consider dating one. 3. Chinese men are traditional and thinks that marrying a western woman will ruin their culture. 4. Neagative sterotypes against western women also play a huge roll, many Chinese men believe that western women are not as loyal and lack family values as Chinese women. However, this is changing very fast. Many young and mid-age Chinese men began to realize that Chinese women are getting more and more bitchy, westernlized, and brain washed too. Chinese women begin to sell themslves out and bash Chinese men also make up lies to make Chinese men look bad. As a reslut, many young and mid-aged Chiense men are more open minded to marry non-Chinese women.
If you say that the reson western women rarely date Chinese men is because China lack “freedom”, then how can you explain so many Chinese women sell out to foregin men?
But I think this trend will change within on decade, you have to know that China is controlled by Chinese men, NOT Chinese women. And many powerful Chinese men are sick of the status quote they will do what ever it takes to change it!!
Dear Slipknot…
Whoa handsome, let’s back up…
My wanju xiong is soon turning fifty, and he’s so traditional Chinese he’s a stereotype. Long story short, his ex-wife wanted a richer and more challenging man, so she ran off with his American pal. My fiancee misses his pal, but not so much the ex.
When we met online, I was past fed up with the fact that I was a bug light for bad boys, and I had a lot of karma to burn off. He is a government official in a supervisory position, and even daydreaming about cavorting with an American nymphet is grounds for an on-the-job malcontent to cause all kinds of mischief for him.
Want to know what makes it work for us? He has more cause than any Anglo man to cherish my unconventional personality and lifestyle, and, I finally found a man who is more dependable, attentive, and appreciative than his Anglo counterparts. At the end of even the worst of days, we unfailingly find a reason to laugh, forgive, and move on. In essence, we are best friends.
You are such a smart and versatile young man, and the only thing that stands in the way of love for you, is.. You. So please, don’t focus on trying to change people and societies that don’t give a damned what you want. Focus all that energy into something you can change, your own perspective. When you are sitting at dinner with your lady, what do you want her to talk about? Would you like to hear her talk about what makes you special to her, or, do you want to hear what she thinks about men and society?
Think about it.
I have proof on the pages above that you have that most remarkable trait I’ve unfailingly found in Chinese men… You’re a xiong mao, and you’re so busy showing your teeth, that you forget that what sets you apart from the other bears is your gentleness. Find a lady who is allergic to macho men who think a woman is a clay sculpture… His to mold, and she’s there to be of service and be seen but not to be served or heard… I can promise you, there are a lot of us around…
My love and I don’t care if we can change the world, we only care about changing our lives, one hug, one argument, and one cleared up misunderstanding at a time. That would be a good start for you too!
Besides, growling at malcontents should be left to ornery old bears like me! (Laughing Loudly!)
Take care of yourself! My sincerest regards, Phoenix Dawnsinger
many chinese men think western(american)women are not traditional due to the high divorse rates in america.china,japan,korea,india and the rest of sout east asia are traditional societies where men are supposed to love their wives and women are supposed to respect their husbands.chinese men think western women lack respect for their husbands,they also think western women are rich so why bother to impress a woman when she doesn,t need you.in a chinese man,s head he will be thinking she has all the money she needs so she doesn,t need me or any other man.
Dear Carl…
I have asked my wanju xiong, who currently lives in Mainland China, about your statement. Here is what he said…
“…Respectfully, he, (Carl), is not entirely correct. The divorce rate in China right now is higher than ever, and it is because Chinese women are seeking rich men overseas…” My fiancee’s experiences have suggested to him that it is the Chinese woman, and not the Chinese man, who seeks to break from tradition.
That said, the issue of divorce rates is a woman’s suffrage issue in every culture, but even a cursory read of England’s society until the abolishment of anti-divorce laws can tell you why women flood to the divorce attorneys when divorce is made available to them. In a nutshell, when marriage is a form of slavery, being bound even to a nice and faithful man who is a drunk and gambler is a life of abject misery for his wife. Being unable to free yourself from a spouse who beats, starves or neglects you will make you appreciate the notion that some “traditions” enable the very opposite behaviors they are claimed to support. Traditionally and historically, who metes any real punishment to a man who mistreats his wife? Conversely, who protects a wife from being punished if her family is unable or unwilling to protect her?
In the bottom line, enabling punishment and stigmata -free divorces may allow more divorces to happen, but men, as well as women, are freed from a life of suffering alongside a dismal mate choice, and BOTH genders are compelled to behave like better human beings when the penalty for being a lousy spouse is that your spouse can leave you and shop elsewhere. Divorce lets two people wreck hell on each other upon departure, but it does end. If they fought so evilly in the divorce, can you imagine what the everyday life in that marriage was like?
Although Nicollo Machiavelli has some extraordinary advise on this topic, I will instead paraphrase the author “David Gerrold” in his book “A Matter for Men”.
“…Never assume that you have either freedom or rights, because as long as you must depend upon a society, your rights and freedoms are either granted or denied by that society… You must always fight to win, and to keep, any freedom or rights you obtain or you will lose them much easier than you obtained them…”
He goes on to say, “Freedom is the OPPORTUNITY to the right to be held responsible and accountable for your own words and actions…”
If you are not awarded the opportunity to be held accountable for yourself, but, you are held accountable for someone else’s deeds, then let me ask you, is this freedom or rights?… More importantly, is this happiness?
Does “tradition” make the marriage work, or, does companionship that runs stronger than love and temptation actually create the perfect marriage?
Having grown up in an abusive home, I can speak in the same voice as my many counterparts around the world… I am a better person who makes better choices because I am allowed to make those choices on my own behalf… Including walking away forever from a life of misery and choosing to be a product of my own choices rather than being a victim of my circumstances. Traditions are formulas of generalization, so it actually works for less people, and not for most people. Am I an “iconoclast” for saying this? Hardly… I respect tradition far more than most would imagine, but what I respect most is quality of life.
I caution Slipknot against generalizations because these have given him an anger that prevents him from achieving his goals, and I stated that each relationship has it’s own unique chemistry. No matter what culture or country you are from, or which gender you are, being a friend, companion, confidante, and loyal cheerleader is the foundation of any good marriage.
My relationship with my beloved thrives because we abandoned the stereotypes and discovered that underneath his conservative demeanor, he is longing for a chance to embrace a less repressed side to himself, and in him, I find that stability and duty can be the means to being free in truth, because I have a consistent rock to climb onto when the seas of life get rough. For most people this kind of attraction is temporary, and it’s part of a healing process. We are a rare pairing because we discovered a genuine friendship along the way. No formula, no tradition, no hedonism, or heroism. At the end of the day, we simply feel good together.
Why do I keep going back to talking about my relationship? Glad you asked… What you need to talk about are your relationships as an individual with other individuals. We cannot know all in even one person other than ourselves, so please, offer me the solution that works for you… Personally. From this collection of individual experiences, we may or may not be able to find a concensus, but we should be able to find the clues that help us start on our own roads to personal truths. My love and I did not pair up for any of the reasons mentioned by anyone here other than me. I prove and rest my case on this point. I sincerely wish all of you great luck, and even greater love.
I am faithfully yours, Phoenix Dawnsinger
You are right. I really want to change the status quote. Wow, your boyfriend’s ex-wife divorced him just to be with a White American guy? This is so sick, makes me SICK to Stomach when thinking about Chinese women.
I can not changed the status quote alone, and I need help. However, many Asians living in the United States are nothing but Sheeps, Sheeps are get pushed around, and let other people sit on their head and Sh!T on it. lol, this is sad yet TRUE. For so many years, they been kept down yet they dont really realize it.
Slipknot, you’re such a drama queen. People are people everywhere.
This topic started very well, but it’s getting boring now.
Perhaps we should only let AM/WF couples comment here.
WF? So black and Asian women cannot make valuable contributions? What if a black girl marries a Chinese guy?
This is a light hearted comment that’s a little bit related.
I’m aware that life is different in the Giant country of Mainland China and the ethnic Chinese communities around the world with many significant differences but some generalized similarities.
There is this show in Taiwan called WTO姐妹會. It focues on a panel of foreign women (from all over the world) who married men in Taiwan, some have been there for well over a decade. They talk about several topics such as some listed in the comments, cultural differences, children, marriage customs, romance, companionship, etc. Kind of down to earth in several aspects, and a bit more mature since half of the women there are older.
However, I want to say that it is primarily an entertainment show so it’s geared towards making laughs for general viewers so there’s going to be a few instances of insensitive/possibly offensive remarks but overall not enough to spoil the show. Don’t expect any lengthy intellectual talks too, and not all the information there is accurate, but no big deal. Occasionaly they do get serious and here’s an interesting point I found, at least for me. Due to the fluency in Mandarin (with their unique accents) and really the life experiences + maternal atmosphere of the show, the foreign women do feel as warm as any of the “Ah-Yees” and “Da-Sau(s)” one meets in real life.
You all can check it out on Youtube and Tudou or any website you all can think of.
Hello Friend!
Thanks for putting us back on topic. I will look into these shows as I may be one of the target audience! (Laughing!).
As for Zictor, comments from Black or Asian women don’t count for much if you will not listen to the comments from White women or Asian men. In all forums, this one included, every story, even the “Wild” ones, have a grain of truth, and with enough references from different sources, a consensus of facts can be gleaned, so everyone’s comments have merit in my opinion. My love for a Chinese man has made me hungry to understand all I can about him and his world… But of course, I’m naturally curious anyways… (Smile!)
On that note, when I was in Seattle, WA, I used to wander for weeks at a time in the warrens of Asian shanty towns there, and I learned a lot of things… Unfortunately, my ignorance then did not allow me to separate what I learned or experienced into their respective and proper cultural origins. I will not make that mistake now…
So tell me, Friend… What are the English translations of “Ah-Yees” and “Da-Sau” ?
Faithfully, Phoenix Dawnsinger
@Friend
I didn’t realize Taiwan had such a program. How cool! I will definitely look it up.
@Phoenix
“Ah-Yee” (or, in pinyin, Aiyi) means “Aunt”, but it is also a polite term, like ma’am, that younger people and children use to refer to older women. “Da-Sau” (in pinyin, Dasao) means oldest sister-in-law.
@ Phoenix Dawnsinger
Phoenix, at what point did I say I wasn’t going to listen? My previous comment was in response to Slipknot’s stupid comment saying that only Asian men and White Women should be commenting on this topic.
There are very few Black femal and Asian male marriages.
ORLY????
There are very few white female and Asian male marriages as well. Should they not have the right to an opinion? Oh, wait, this post is all about the infrequency of these marriages. Which means that your point goes against the post, and therefore should not be taken into account.
Zictor…
Alright, we know Slipknot has issues, so what’s your excuse?
Are you contributing anything useful, constructive, or thoughtful to this site by using it to wreak the same kind of behavior on Slipknot that you are accusing him of displaying? As you so adroitly pointed out yourself, this is a site about the rarity of marriages between Asian men and foreign women… Not a site to call technical fouls and perform character assassinations on other contributors. If you have more useless nastiness to contribute, then please take it to a private exchange, because another reason for this site is to find a common link of understanding and affection with others in a very scarce community. You are obviously a very smart person, so grow some mature wisdom, dial it down, and show us someone we can respect, then others can follow your example. ‘Nuff said on this subject…
Slipknot… My all-American mom would make yours look like a devoted patron saint. I figured out that anger is a sickness, and complaining never helped, so I turned the page. I wrote the post about…”Sometimes the hardest part of choosing to be a product of your own shaping rather than to be a perpetual victim of circumstances is to find the power to consistently walk away from the things that hurt you every time the challenge arises. People are only able to hurt you if you enable them…” I had you in mind when I said that. Now you need to chose… Will you heal or will you let that “barbed wire” strangle you from within?
Jocelyn… Sorry, it’s the university instructor coming out in me…
Thank you very much for your translations of Friend’s words… Were these Mandarin Chinese, or another language?
I’ve encountered something else rather confusing, and I’d like to know if you encountered this yourself… My uncle is effectively my only family guardian, and he, “Richard”, will be giving me away at my wedding. Back when my fiancee proposed, my fiancee told Richard that he wanted Richard to visit him in China before I would actually meet the man who proposed to me. Richard and I were so shocked, that we flooded my wanju xiong with a thousand questions, whereupon my darling had a panic attack and almost called off the engagement. We now understand that this was a cultural thing, but I would really like to get a better and more complete understanding of this custom. I’ve noted that my fiancee considers having a best friend relationship with my uncle, (Who is eight years older than my fiancee.), every bit as important as having a harmonious relationship with me. Can you explain a bit about that too?
Well, back to grading final exams… Zicter and Slipknot, I suggest you two go out and drink a few beers together… And let me have primary filming rights over anything that happens between you two after the first pitcher has been consumed. Wen ni!
Faithfully, Phoenix Dawnsinger.
Phoenix,
You have clearly not read all the comments in this post (true, there is over 140 of them). If you go back to the very earliest ones, you’ll my lengthy post analysing the phenomenon as an outsider.
Basically, I said that stereotypes have a reason to exist and they can be right.
Then I said that when two people find a connection in this crazy world we live in, stereotypes mean nothing (quite applicable to your case, actually).
And then I presented another reason for such a shortage of AM/WF unions: the Chinese society is actually so closed it actually presents an obstacle for good pairings between Asian men and foreign women (white, black of green).
Honestly, I believe all the reasons presented in the post and the comments play a role in all cases. The main thing is that each issue plays a stronger or weaker role in each particular case.
Now, talking about wisdom, please allow me to give you some advice: Check your facts, stick to what you know.
You assumed I hadn’t contributed anything because you weren’t seeing my comments. The reason for that is because they were made very early (in this discussion) and don’t show on the first page anymore. You DO have the right to think that my comments are absolute bullshit, but you cannot say everybody agrees with you.
If you really want to know what kind of contributions I brought, just click a couple of time on “Older Comments” until there are no more “Older Comments” links and you can then read (and judge) whatever I thought I was contributing to the debate.
Or you can just act like Roadblock and Slipknot.
…But because I love him.
That’s the thing to break all the stereotypes.
So what is your story Aaron?
Because of totally curiosity,western girls completely differ from Chinese grils,blonde hair ,sky color eyes. it isnt impossible to marry with a western girl.But who knows its just your destiny .If you are the one appropriate for white .Thats all.AS for a little little little very little proportion of white girls and Chinese marriage ,it can be taken into consideration in many aspect ,social statues,wealth,cultural difference,different life style and forth.Obviously,beautiful western girl is really really realy attraction for Chinese boy.But but but Chinese boys who will brave enough to talk with a foreigner girl on the streets.They are afraiding(nothing to laugh).They are thinking about the consequence.The one is succeeful to talk and to be friends,or even further developing .but how about the second one.Foreigner girls will think you are insane and neglect you.I WONT try forever.what,s more ,there is little chance to get close to foreigners even in big metropolitan.all in all,it is really really really really really hard to know about them
Hello Arron and Here…
Both of you hit right at the heart of the matter in my experience…
First, a person of any racial origin must open their heart to the possibility of loving, and being loved by, someone not of their own race or culture. Second, bravery and persistence are needed to achieve any goal, especially love, and the power to move beyond obstacles can only come from a strong belief in your mission.
My wanju xiong and I are going through the roughest patch of our relationship so far at this time thanks to his job, but no matter how many troubles we encounter, we know that neither of us can walk away from the other. This is not a torrid forbidden love scene thing, it is two late middle-age folks enduring in quiet and abiding faith.
Here, you should know that there are a number of foreign ladies, myself included, who do not have blonde hair or blue eyes, but, we sure love our Chinese men! (Laughing!). True, my own wanju xiong had a pretty Russian love interest who fit that blonde and blue-eyed stereotype, but yours truly, with my brown eyes and black curly hair, won his heart in the end. If the foreign woman has the right heart and temperament, then forget the colors, and do what my fiance did, be brave and tell her she’s beautiful and facinating…
Good luck and happy holidays to everyone!
Phoenix Dawnsinger
em,Phoenix.I truly agree with your opinion.I dont know about myself. i am still a white paper(that mean i never have a girlfriend).So as to me ,a man never date with a Chinese girl.Really i dont know how to communicate with a foreigner.That,s make sence.Eyes’and hair color is not important.The esence is that you love or not.Okey,seems i dont know what’s the next topic.I really believe that with the fast growth of Chinese economic,our motherland become richer and richer,Chinese will be weathier than before.i think that Internatinal marrige will be popular,including foreigner girls and Chinese men.LOVE IS based on a special sensation.But but but i really need financial support.Actually,most girls like diamond rings,jewelry,millionare,money and rich man.This society is realistic.there is a saying:no money ,no wife.That make sense.ABOUT 400 hundreds ago, the world center changed form China to West Europe.As every Chinese knows,it happened after the famous Chinese navigator Zheng he had finished his magnificent seven times global journeys partly.I analyze the difference between Chinese and Columbus on this matter.I FINALLY get the conclusion that Zheng he want to show off Chinese property on behalf of Ming Dynasty.Western navigator actually represent their country tosail,but the difference is that they want money ,more benefit from other country ,to make business with other nation on esence.Obivously,Western Cultural characteristic have been developed further at that moment after medieval.That is science and technology.that also we chinese culture dont focus on.Finally.it promoted fastly that industrial revolutionary take place in Britain.This crucical symbol expanded the distance between Western civilization and Oriental civilization.concerning Chinese national institution ,the most defectness is too centralise,hamper the individual development.But in the meantime,the best benefit of this institution is that the whole country can develop fastest by government administation.Return to today,conspiciously that’s why China has achieved the spendid accomplishment in economics,and it will spread to other aspects.Such as military,army, air force ,navy and so on. It can be preceived on our 60th national celebration. I talked too much probably it has nothing to do with the topic we talked here.BUT i want to reveal why many Chinese think foreigner girls is more beautiful.Because the mainstream culture is still Western Culture.Our Chinese value of beauty had been changed when we was watching hollywood movie,fashionable clothes,hi-tech weapon .its cooler than Chinese.the sense is you love the guy,you love everything about the guy.That make sense. So so so
Found another article written by a Yangxifu about dating Chinese Men — thanks for pointing this out to me, Jessica!
who said Asians in America do not realize this issue. We are turning the tables now! come and chat with us. womenforasianmen.com