A few years ago, I remember stumbling across a post that linked back to me on the now defunct Shlaowai blog (which billed itself as “Shanghai Uncensored”). The post, written by one of their white female writers, was titled, “So, What’s the Dating Scene Like?” I can’t share any quotes from the post — unfortunately, the blog’s creators blocked archiving of their material, which means you can’t even dig up their original content through the Wayback Machine. Still, given that the post featured the infamous photo of a shorter Long Duk Dong with his head buried in the bosom of a taller white girl, you can guess what the author had to say about “the dating scene” in China.
I can’t recall her exact wording when she referenced my site, but I remember how I felt. That I somehow couldn’t be trusted to understand her experience. After all, I crossed the line she somehow drew there in Shanghai by dating and marrying a Chinese (and then daring to write something positive about it).
You might wonder, why do I even care about an obscure post from years back on a now-defunct blog? It’s because I’ve increasingly encountered a similar perspective in e-mails from some readers — e-mails that ask, in a suspect tone, why I’m not writing enough negative things about dating Chinese men?
It’s a good question. After all, if “dating Chinese men is undesirable” is your world view, then you’d certainly be a little suspicious of a woman married to one, who can’t seem to gush enough about how great her husband is — and how women out there should give Chinese guys a chance.
Yes, it’s true, you might say I have “an agenda”. For years, I tired of the one-sided discussion that generally ensued whenever someone brought up the idea of Western women dating Chinese men. I just wanted to inject another perspective into the conversation, to challenge the assumption that Chinese men could never be a viable option for us. Perhaps it’s naive, but in a way, I hoped to empower Western women in China (at least, those women open to dating) — to help them transcend the usual narratives surrounding China’s dating scene (such as Foreign women label Beijing a dating wasteland).
But maybe these women have a point, in a way. Why should they trust me if I write about only the good, or make it all seem so easy? In fact, it wasn’t always easy. On the serpentine pathway that led me to China — and eventually John — I’ve had my share of dating encounters with Chinese men that left me cringing, crying, or simply crouched in the corner in agony.
One of my worst came in 2001, when I bumped into a friendly Chinese fellow in the Foreign Language Bookstore who spoke flawless English and had a smile as welcoming as the late afternoon winter sunshine. He invited me to tea and snacks at a local teahouse — and what I thought should have been a quick meeting stretched over eight hours, as we dined on the delicious buffet and a conversation that covered, to borrow the Spanish expression, the divine and the human. Of course he made my heart race because I felt certain we just connected. But maybe it was even easier because I faced enormous struggles at the time — an abusive foreigner I roomed with (long story), and an equally abusive volunteer job that I was on the verge of quitting. I was, as they say, vulnerable — and I still remained largely ignorant of China’s dating culture. So that evening, when he suddenly kissed me beside the West Lake, when he declared me an “angel,” I thought he meant every word. So I let him kiss me more. I let him see me off all the way back to my dormitory in a taxi. I let him kiss me again and again outside the dormitory before he left me. I shake my head when I think of how far I let things go that evening, but I really and truly was so lonely then, and in such a bad situation, that I somehow believed it was all real. Days later, I found an e-mail in my inbox with a crushing confession — he had a fiancee. This is how I learned the incredibly painful lesson to never get involved with a guy in China too fast.
I dated two other Chinese nationals seriously before meeting and marrying my husband, and those relationships both soured. I loved my first Chinese boyfriend dearly, but his decision to study in the UK, a country that would have been difficult for me to live in due to visa restrictions for Americans, shattered our relationship. I’ve also written of my second Chinese boyfriend extensively, a guy called Frank, and our brief relationship barely lasted a month, thanks to parents who wouldn’t welcome a foreigner into the family.
Of course, there are all the relationships that never even got off the ground. That guy studying at a university in Nanjing who finally told me, straight out, that he couldn’t date me because his parents wanted him to marry a Chinese woman. The Hangzhou native who graduated from Zhejiang University and almost went to study abroad at a school in Texas, who all my friends considered perfect for me…until he kept cancelling our dates, which eventually cancelled any interest I had in dating him. The fellow from somewhere in Henan Province who I met in Hangzhou — he insisted he loved me and sent text after text of cloying Chinese poetry to prove it, but he had the personality of a store mannequin and no amount of roses (yes, he tried to woo me with overflowing bouquets of roses) would change my mind.
And let’s not forget the Chinese driver who kept trying to steer the conversation back to foreign women as mistresses and sex on the way to the airport, even though the fact that I stared out the window in silence in response should have told him “not interested” loud and clear. A guy who sexually assaulted me just after he parked his car in the airport parking lot. When I ran, not walked, to my gate only minutes later, it had nothing to do with the possibility that I might miss my flight.
With all of these false starts, failed relationships and even fiascos, you might wonder — how the hell can she be so upbeat about dating Chinese men? Well, because I did have some enchanting experiences, even when the relationships didn’t work out. Because I also believed in the possibility of something — and someone — better. Because I didn’t judge the whole of Chinese men on the basis of a handful of “bad lychees”. And because, in the end, I found the love of my life there, a man who even 10 years later still makes me swoon.
In some respects, I don’t think I was all that different from many women out there, who still insist they’ll eventually find “the one” despite years of being on the dating merry-go-round.
I can’t guarantee that every single Western woman will eventually find her own happily ever after with a Chinese man. Of course, things will get in the way — such as the pool of men in your city (obviously, it’s going to be much better in Beijing than, say, in a tiny village in Gansu) and your age (since most Chinese rush to marry before 30, it is harder to find available guys in the over-30 crowd). But if you’re a Western woman under 30 (or willing to date younger men) and you’re living in a city with plenty of young educated, eligible Chinese bachelors, I feel as if the answer to the question, “So, what’s the dating scene [in China] like?” depends to a certain extent on you.
It’s kind of like the Chinese story of the Vinegar Tasters:
The three men are dipping their fingers in a vat of vinegar and tasting it; one man reacts with a sour expression, one reacts with a bitter expression, and one reacts with a sweet expression. The three men are Confucius, Buddha, and Laozi, respectively. Each man’s expression represents the predominant attitude of his religion: Confucianism saw life as sour, in need of rules to correct the degeneration of people; Buddhism saw life as bitter, dominated by pain and suffering; and Taoism saw life as fundamentally good in its natural state.
I don’t know about you, but even after all of the bitterness I’ve encountered, the bitterness I’ve described above, there’s no doubt that I continued to smile. And I always will.
I have mixed feelings about this… I’m a 30 yr old American woman living in Beijing. I’ve always been open to dating Chinese guys and am in a new relationship with a Chinese guy now.
The truth is, though, that it’s harder to find someone here than it would be at home. At least, that’s my opinion and I don’t think it comes from a place of being closed minded about Chinese men. But between guys who just wouldn’t want to date a foreigner, guys whose parents wouldn’t let them, different cultural ideas about dating, etc., there are a lot of obstacles.
So on the one hand, I want to have an optimistic attitude. Maybe the odds aren’t as good, but you only have to find one guy that’s right for you, so why assume it can’t happen, like many Western women in China do?
On the other hand… I can’t totally begrudge my fellow Western women a little frustration about the “dating scene” here. Sometimes it gets old.
many white women complain all the time about the men in their western countries yet they never frame their complaints as complaints about the ethnicity of those men, merely the men themselves. One might, if one was not familiar, think the men of their countries to be all scum by the constant complaints.
As many minorities and feminists have said, whites enjoy the privilege of being deemed on an individual basis while minorities are judged as representatives of their group.
The obstacles are real. I don’t think most western women want to have prejudices, but most are vocal about frustrations. Jocelyn has over praised her husband to make some valid points too.
To date another person growing up in such a different society is challenging. I can say the same about Chinese women. It is not that you can’t understand their perspectives. It is just hard to accept and make deeper connections. And people in China don’t have same freedom of choices, which often prompt people to be more defensive about their choices.
to Kate: Of course it would be harder. You’re in a different country and dating is going to be difficult having to negotiate language and cultural barriers and all. What do you think Asians in your country feel like when trying to date the locals? Do all of them open up sites to vent about things? And think about the success of western men in Asia. Is some of it due to their innate attractiveness, sure. But more I’d say is from the natural persistence of men in being the initiators of dating. Maybe if all the western women in China would stop congregating in expat bars to complain to each other and get out to meet people (without expectations of a date in mind)…
Overall, life is how you make it. Two different people in the same situation can see things in radically different ways. Why do you think some people can have a blast at parties, even if it’s not normally their thing, while others have a glum time? Make the best of every situation, keep things in perspective, and see the joyful side of things.
Follow up: I find that western women (not all, granted) who go overseas tend to impose their views of what life/dating should be like on the local population, in a form of neo-cultural imperialism. “Screw his traditions and culture, I want and expect them to act like Westerners. Speak to me in my own language, romance me in a way I’m used to, convert to my religion, and stop involving your family in our affairs.” It’s like they’re unable to open their minds. I find this more in American women than Europeans, since the latter at least has the advantage of living in close proximity to many other different cultures. Americans are less worldly in general and when abroad want to find comforting reminders of home rather than to take in all aspects of a new environment. News flash: if you wanted all those things, maybe you’d have been better off staying home. You’re in a foreign country. Take in the good and the bad, each one of the strange but charming and sometimes frustrating differences, in stride. Laugh often and try to understand more of this amazingly diverse world we live in before we all converge on the same banal culture.
Combine this with the naturally frustrating expectations of women worldwide for men to be mind readers and you get… well, the above.
I agree that if you’re going to date people from another culture you should be open-minded, but people are allowed to have baseline requirements, which are probably informed by culture to an extent, and it goes both ways.
There’s a big difference between how someone romances you and how much involvement his family has in his life. I wouldn’t want to marry a man who expected his parents to move in with us eventually, and a Chinese guy who moves to the US probably wouldn’t want to date a woman who wanted to be completely independent from his family, either.
You can see mor negative stereotypes of Chinese men in the movie called “The Joy Luck Club” which depicts Chinese men as philnderers, abusive husbands, cold, mean, asexual, etc.
Have any of you out there heard any negative views about Chinese women? I want to know because I (a White boy) have just entered into a relationship with a Chinese woman; our relationship is too new for me to discover the negative aspects of Chinese women. So, far things are just wonderful.
Oh, I almost forget to say: Great post, Jocelyn. Thanks for all of your work.
Manny, I will tell you more later. Hold tight onto our chair!! Can you handle it ? Tell me now damn it!!
I agree with Jocelyn on writing bad things first on Chinese men. It’s good to talk about bad things before good things will come last!! Even you have bad luck dating your own race too you know. You meet the right person for the right time and for the right reason. Your perfect match won’t come that easy. I’m telling you from what I’ve seen and from my own experience.
“Because I didn’t judge the whole of Chinese men on the basis of a handful of “bad lychees”
I would give you an award for writing this sentence.
My situations is a bit different, since I never dated, or even met, any Korean men before my boyfriend, but this post reflects so skillfully what I think as well.
My fate is weird; each time I’m positive it works out the opposite way with me. When I wanted something badly enough, I never had a chance to get it, while when I wouldn’t want something, or have an indifferent attitude, I tend to get it. I don’t have much experience with Chinese, and I honestly can’t tell what makes a good or bad relationship with one, or how will I know if he cares for me or just wants to use me? I would guess the important lesson to remember is to enjoy the moment I suppose, and make provisional plans if it doesn’t work out.
@kate: it is not racist not wanting to date Asians in Asia..cultural difference is an issue. However, if you wont date a fourth generation American visible minority of the same religion then dont be surprised if you are suspected of being one. Parents not wanting to date someone of a different race is universal. However, there is a difference. In China parents dont want their kids to marry anyone but Chinese. However, if they say that you can marry a Japanese but not a white, then it is racism. In America, that is precisely what most white people think. It is ok for their kid to date or marry an Armenian from Armenia although there is no cultural compatability, but if she brings a fourth generation Asian American home, all hell will break loose…now that is racism, plain and simple.
@melektaus. Absoulutely right! Asians are judged as groups while whites are judged as individuals.
@someone. The more interesting question would be “What do you think fourth generation Asian American males in your country feel like when trying to date white women?” If these guys have problems then what Asians from Asia experience follows without saying much.
@someone. “And think about the success of western men in Asia.” As melekatus says more likely white privilege. If an Asian guy does in trying to get white women in the US, everything that some white guys do in getting an Asian woman in Asia, he will be sent to a mental asylum at best, or lynched at worst. That is the reality at least here in the southern US. In Hawaii it is different for some reason. But, even there I am not very sure.
I grew up in China until finishing the graduate school in Beijing. I can honestly say that, among many of my male friends/classmates, only a few of them (may be less than 5%) who are flexible/open/adventurous enough to date westerners. In my time (I am sure it is very different now) of 90s, i would say probably as many as half of the people married to their first gf/bf, just want to give an example of how things are different in China. But, again, since China is a such a big county, to the turn of 4 times of the population of the US, that 5% of the population is still a huge number, especially in big cities like Beijing and Shanghai.
@David Cultural differences are a sorry excuse. It may not be racism but then it is nationalism, or chauvinism.
@Bruce. Yes, I can hold on. Tell me more right now. I am waiting with baited breath.
Never give up! Believe strongly that you will find that one rare true love. To give up is to never find someone that is more worth it than you could ever imagine. You may have to get past a few rotten ones to get what you really want, but in the end you will not regret all the persistence and patience. Yes, there are negative experiences out there, as there would be within any culture. However, it does not need to get in the way of your dreams and goals. I have found that if you keep telling yourself what kind of person you will end up with, you WILL find them. “Our subconscious minds have no sense of humor, play no jokes and cannot tell the difference between reality and an imagined thought or image. What we continually think about eventually will manifest in our lives.” – Robert Collier
In other words, if you tell yourself that all Chinese men (or Asian men) that you meet will be rotten, that is the only kind of man you will meet. Or if you tell yourself you have nothing to offer in a foreign dating scene, that is exactly what will manifest in your life. If you tell yourself that you are going to find your dream soulmate with a whole bunch of specific qualities that you like, you will eventually come across that person. I know this FOR A FACT from experience, although when I first heard that analogy I was very skeptical, but was quickly humbled when I gave it a try. Now, I am married to someone who I could not have imagined. I believe Jocelyn not giving up and being persistent about what she wanted is also what led her to John. Once again, never give up.
@David. I have to disagree with you when you wrote that if an Asian man tried to pick-up White chickies in Southern USA, he will either be sent to the insane asylum or be lynched. Perhaps you are right if the Asian boy tried it 40-50 years ago. But I can confidently say that if an Asian boy tried to pick-up southern White chickies in or near my hometown, he will not be harmed. He may or may not be rejected by the White chickie, but his success or failure will depend on his pick-up skills or how much the southern White girl will to be picked up. You seem to think that we southerners are still prejudiced as we once were many decades ago. Will an Asian boy encounter some level of prejudice in the South? He may, but he will less likely face the old prejudice of the prior decades. Now, the prejudice is more subtle and polite. If one of my fellow Whites does not want to be associated with an Asian (or a person of another race), we will simply and politely walk away or the White girl will simply say “no” to any advances. He or she will not use racial slurs (at least not in front of the person’s face) to reject the advance. Racism down south is more subtle and discreet now.
@David. You must use your brain before you insult us Whites by saying that an Asian boy faces the prospect of being lynched if he tries to engratiate himself with a Southern White chickie! If many of our fellow White southerners voted for a Black president, how prejudice are we? I can confidently say that as a southern White boy, neither I nor my family members nor my extended family member are against interracial dating and marriages. Even I just acquired myself a “fortune chickie” as a girlfriend! So, how prejudice can I be? So, I recommend that any of you Asian boys who want to pick-up on a Southern White chickie, go out there and try and not sit on your ass thinking that my fellow Whites are poisoned mentally with the prejudice of the old south. So Asian boys, go get yourself a southern White chickie!
If I as a southern White boy can get myself a Chinese girlfriend, then you Asian boys can get yourselves a Southern white girlfriend.
Good article!
I do think it can be frustrating dating in another country, but I don’t see it as a woman solely being frustrated with the guy and his culture. Some women also deal with being frustrated with themselves as well when things don’t go the way they would like for them to. When I was in Japan, I didn’t meet any women that were really turned off of dating the locals. If anything some were TOO eager and resulted in some not so great endings because of the eagerness to be with anybody rather than just the person that was right for them.
I’ve had some downright awful experiences dating Japanese men–well Asian men in general. One guy left me in the middle of a date. Another guy broke up with me then immediately dumped me when because his parents didn’t want him to date a black girl (then tried to get back together with me again). Another guy left the country without telling me. So yeah, I’ve had some…”gems” in my life. And I’m very open to tell people about the assholes I met. And I’ve had some good experiences as well. Me and the current BF have been going strong for the past 2 years. So I try to tell people about both the positive and negative sides. A relationship period is going to have it’s good moments and it’s bad moments and while some of the things I’ve encountered have been related to cultural issues I remember that the good/bad things that happens was with this one guy and might be different from the next guy.
I guess the important thing is really to reflect and learn from the experience you have. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with proceeding with caution, but at the same time, you shouldn’t let past experiences hinder your dating life.
Manny and Bruce are so humorous.
Not everyone can see the individual.
@David
I am a Southern (TN) White “chickie” and my boyfriend is Taiwanese. And no one has ever threatened him with a lynching. We have never encountered any issue regarding our relationship in the south, though I have heard one comment in Boston, MA where we both attend school. Clearly, racism is not so much a regional issue as it is a national one!
@MaryK
Good for you. Are you still living there? The only other white woman I know of through blogs appeared to have a great marriage while in China, but they divorced about a year and a half after moving to of all the places TN. The reasons I do not know. But did race play a role? I do not know and we will never know but I am sort of suspicious.
@Manny
I will guarantee you that if an Asian man did in the US South what you did in Hong Kong or what you claimed to do with Asian women, there will be consequences. Perhaps not lynching, but at the minimum he will be run out of town. Happened to none other than a boyfriend of a volleyball coach..a Japanese guy with a Volleyball background and an executive of an auto company…he was not lynched, but they complained to his company and made some veiled threats, and guess what he was put on a plane to Japan in no time. So, yeah lynching is a bit extreme. The fact is they wont even admit minorities in the southern sorororities, are they really going to tolerate an Asian guy pursuing a lot of white women…I really doubt it.
And yes I use my brain…And do read the post by alumna….
http://cw.ua.edu/2012/10/24/in-sororites-integration-still-elusive/
If the young southern white woman rejects the Asian guy she may be doing him a favor as he does not have to deal with her family.
@Shasha Laperf..anti black racism exists everywhere, unfortunately.
@Oegukeen. By your definition most white Americans men and women are racists…and for that matter most of the world is at best racist and at worse highly ethnocentric.
@David
Yes, we both live in TN though we met in Boston. My family is highly accepting of our relationship, which is a blessing.
Furthermore, my family fostered three Vietnamese kids for about 5 years, and 2 of them (male) dated white females without trouble. Maybe my family is just particularly accepting, but we did live in rural TN which shouldn’t have been so welcoming. But it was!
There was one boy who called my foster brother “Commie” and “yellow boy” but the school took disciplinary action.
I like to think the South is working on its issues, one at a time.
I have mostly positive experiences in the South. Stereotypes only tell part of the reality. Sure it is true to a certain degree, but Jocelyn’s idea of not rejecting everyone based on a few bad examples applies in this case as well. Asians are not guilt free in terms of repression and cruelty.
Cultural difference adds another dimension to the relationship. But your relationship can flourish based on commonalities. The learning you get is in finding yourself and your own happiness.
@David
It gets old to hear your stories.
As usual, great post, thoughtful and meaningful…
@David. You see!! Mary K. is a Southern White Chickie and she was willing to be with an Asian boy! Praise the Lord. She is a living example that we southern Whites are not so prejudiced as you think. Your mentality needs some modification. I am glad though that you think “lynching” is a bit inaccurate nowadays. Is there prejudice in the south. Absolutely yes! But things are changing a lot for the better and Mary K.’s willingness to date an Asian boy is living proof that we Whites are not so prejudiced. As for the example that he Japanese executive was driven out of town for chasing a White chickie, how much do you really know about the facts of the case. Have you studied it thoroughly? Did you obtain your information from hearsay? Did you observe it first hand? Those are the relevant questions that you must ask. Perhaps he was driven out for another reason and the people used his philandering skills as a pretext to eject him from the company. I have heard that people were fired pretextually such as for poor performance but the boss cited as a false reason sexual harassment because he made a few sex jokes at work. So, the moral of the story is that you should be fully informed of all facts before you draw conclusions about matters such as averring that we Whites are prejudiced down south and not willing to date Asian boys or girls when there are examaples such as Mary K who so openly embraced an Asian boyfriend.
@David. I do not know what is your race or ethnicicity, but I think that you should go down to one of the southern states and chase a White chickie; it would do you a lot of good. I hope that you succeed and “bang” the White chickie and do so by making a lot of noise so that your neighbors can hear you both. Then thereafter, you will not be so adverse to dating a Southern White girl.
@Caroline. I am glad that you find our exchanges funny. I try to put some humor into my discussions. Are you a White girl with an Asian boyfriend?
Manny,
Why didn’t you say you were wetting your lower and upper lips while waiting for my response ? Yummy LOL :).
Manny, do you trust me now that we’re talking here for a few weeks ? Then listen carefully to the wise one here ….There are some negative views on Asian/Chinese women . Asian/Chinese women can be a little bit controlling IF you don’t have strong personality and thoughts. If you’re lucky and you’ve found an understanding asian/chinese woman then you’re fine. Some are very driven by materialistic items and status like having more wealth, more brand name purses and clothes and cars. If your education level is same or higher than hers then you are okay. If she has a higher education level than you, she might control you on decision makings or whatever you do or even leave your ass once she is more educated than you. Asian/Chinese women like to compare things with other women. They always want to have what others have or better. Some can be very hard to please. Manny, you have to proceed with cautions because you are still trying to know her ( your gf). Within 6 months to 1 yr, you will know if she is the real deal or just someone who is pretending on the outer shell. Like any men or women, they are just protecting their true personalities when they are beginning to know you. A beautiful first impression is to make you attracted to that person. During a relationship, it’s where the real stuff starts like misunderstanding between you two, jealousy and other factors / friends/families/ etc will have a big influence on the relationship.
If you are the lucky one with an understanding Asian/Chinese woman, she will maintain a peaceful ,prosperous home with you. She will always encourage you to do better in whatever you’re trying to pursue. SOME good Asian / Chinese women will even stick to the end with you through good times and bad times ( financial crisis and health issues). Manny, if everything goes well with your current gf, you have to invite me to dinner at her home town. San Gabriel, Monterey Park , California for a nice seafood dinner at ” New Harbor Chinese Restaurant on Las Tunas Blvd, San Gabriel /San Marino Calif . I love geoduck sashimi and spiny lobster with special sauce LMAO. Ask her if there is such restaurant then she will tell you hint hint LOL. Who’s your daddy! Who’s your daddy! LOL 🙂
Bruce 🙂
@Bruce. Thanks for letting me know that there are potential downsides to dating a Chinese woman. However, thus far between Kate and me, our relationship is blossoming and I see none of the negative aspects that you mentioned above (at least not yet). Of course, I am cognizant of the fact that our relationship is in the “honeymoon” stage as we just started together; I guess time will tell whether you are correct or not such as her wanting to control me, demanding material acquisition, hiding her true feelings, etc. Nevertheless, I appreciate and will continue to appreciate your earnest advice on how to court a Chinese woman. Take care and thanks once again for everything.
Manny,
As men, we learn how to adapt in any situation. It doesn’t matter how hard a woman can be, we can adapt. Some women can be controlling but as long as they love and care about you , your families etc, I guess it’s okay. My opinions only bring out more discussion. In reality, anything is okay as long as within reasons. Do you understand me?
Bruce
Excellent post!!!! Especially loved the vinegar story!
Relationship hard for all
@Bruce. All of those negative aspects which you outlined above about dating a Chinese woman (eg. controlling, materialistic, demanding etc.) are in no way unique. I beleive these negative aspects are universal among women (and men too) regardless of race, color or ethnicity. I have dated several White chickies before my current Chinese goddess, and they showed those same characteristics. For example, one of my former White chickies was demanding on my time. Whenever she called and left me a message on my voicemail, she would expect me to return her call in a relatively short period of time regardless of my circumstances even if I were in a business meeting or doing something extremely important. She expected me more or less to just drop what I was doing and immediately attend to her issue. Then if I failed to return her call in a timely fashion, she would demand to know why it took so long to call her back and then arguments between her and me would break out. In another example, I was talking to another woman related to business and then I did not return her call for a long time, she would then demand to know why I was talking to another woman for so long even if my discussion with the other woman was related to business. And I was not even trying to pick-up on the other woman because it was just business. Now do you see why I have great difficulties dating my fellow White chickies, bro?
My current Chinese goddess displays none of those negative aspects (at least not yet) because she seemed to be so understanding. For example, I had to talk on the phone (while my current Chinese goddess was next to me) to a woman for a long time related to fixing something in my office. My current Chinese goddess did not complain, and after the conversation she did not question me why I spent an inordinate amount of time on the phone with the other woman even though I was joking with the other woman a bit. Now do you see why so many White boys love Chinese (or Asian) women because those fine fortune chickies do not complain or nag? I am cognizant that our relationship is still early and maybe later my Chinese goddess will change for the worse. But only time will tell, bro. Thanks for all your help.
@ Bruce and @ all others. From now on, you all will see less and less of me because my goal of obtaining a Chinese fortune chicky is near full realization. Once I “bang” my fortune chicky and I hope to do so soon, I will advise you all; then I can tell you all if “banging” a fortune chicky is better than a White chicky. Once our relationship is solidly on the ground, then I wil simply disappear from this site as my primary purpose will have been accomplished.
@ Bruce. My fortune chicky will return to California this Friday to pass the holidays with her family and I want to be able to seduce her by no later than Thurs. evening. Any advice? Should I buy some adult sex toys? Should I take her out to a quiet dinner and dance before the seduction process? Should I recruit my sister Pamela to aide me in the process? Help! I have never seduced a Chinese goddess before and this will be my first time. Thanks again for your help, bro.
@Manny
I lived in some part of south before. Which part of south are you from? I did see quite a few AM/WF young couples in Atlanta Georgia. So many platunum blondes with asian boys are quite common sighting there.
Manny,
What do adult sex toys have to do with seducing a Chinese woman? Noooo don’t waste money. Go to your refrigerator and grab a cucumber. It’s much better. :). Stop being too funny man. Do you always throw out a sex toy after a few dates? Did you use sex toys with all your white gfs? Did those white gfs like it? You know something that I’ve told you several times but you always like to think bring up “banging and sex”. Manny, why do you need sex toys to do a man’s job? Are you impotent? Call your new Chinese gf on sex toys and let me know by tomorrow. 🙂 LOL. I know this is going to be very funny. Call her dude!
Bruce 🙂
Manny,
Don’t leave us! We need you! My prediction will be right. hahahhaha LOL. Don’t ever us your sister or brother to aide you in any relationship!
@aiyanxifu. I am from South Carolina.
@aiyanxifu. I am glad to see that in Atlanta there are many AM/WF. I did not know this fact. But of course I have not been to Atlanta, Georgia before. One day I will go there and see for myself.
@Bruce. I will keep you posted and let you know by Friday as I will try to seduce her tomorow night without any sex toys.
Yes GA has alot AMWF.
Manny,
You don’t have to leave this site after you have a Chinese gf. We don’t care if you’re married, single or divorced, you can still come here. Life is an endless journey. We are learning until we die , pal!
Your way of thinking is absolutely wrong by leaving once you’ve learned something. We don’t ask anything in return anyway. Once you’ve reached my level of thinking, you will understand. I know you won’t leave this site even you have have a chinese gf. I just know. I’m never wrong.
Manny, you can just hold her hands and by kissing her, you can seduce her already. You mean people don’t feel hot and bothered just by touching and kissing already? Save the sex toys for strippers and porn stars. Most women ( asian,white, black or green ) WON’t take you seriously in a relationship if you throw out a sex toy during the first week. You just think about it . I don’t have to tell you why or how come blah blah blah.
Well, I am definitely one of those closed minded western women. After a few blah experiences with Chinese men and some horrible experiences I have sworn off them. Though I’ve never let it get very far I don’t like how they treat me. I even met a 30 year old guy that lives in Beijing and speaks great English – not a love connection. I also met a pilot in his late 20’s. He said he wanted to be my boyfriend 10 minutes after meeting me. I bet he’s one of those guys with a fiance. I just don’t think I can marry into a Chinese family. However, after reading your blog I’m not going to be completely closed off in the future. If a guy comes along I’ll give it a better try then I have in the past. I’m definitely not meeting a lot of foreign guys to date in China. 🙂
Well, I am definitely one of those closed minded western women. After a few blah experiences with Chinese men and some horrible experiences I have sworn off them. Though I’ve never let it get very far I don’t like how they treat me. I even met a 30 year old guy that lives in Beijing and speaks great English – not a love connection. I also met a pilot in his late 20′s. He said he wanted to be my boyfriend 10 minutes after meeting me. I bet he’s one of those guys with a fiance. I just don’t think I can marry into a Chinese family. However, after reading your blog I’m not going to be completely closed off in the future. If a guy comes along I’ll give it a better try then I have in the past. I’m definitely not meeting a lot of foreign guys to date in China. 🙂
Hardest thing is to really connect with someone so different. I am not sure how someone is worldly can be content dating a local.
I think whenever two culture meet there will always be a shock and much of that will be negative due to the long cultural conditioning which makes us think what is familiar to us is the norm.
Many racist whites will harp on the differences in behavior and not how they find disagreeable Chinese people’s (or others) habits and cultural traditions. Many of these differences are trivial and shows a superficiality on the part of those racist whites. They will also use these differences as an excuse to treat others despicably justifying their racism.
But they don’t realize is that people from other cultures often see the other side of the coin and many behaviors and so forth are equally unappealing to those in other cultures. The difference is that at least for the Chinese, they seem far more tolerant of those differences than whites in general.
Take how many whites (including white women!) often are so self centered they will talk about themselves and their own interests for hours. Many of their interests are not interesting to Chinese people. Their personalities and their personal stories often are very boring to Chinese. They don’t want to listen to others (talking often arrogantly, stupidly and loudly) and asks few questions in conversations. Their conversational etiquette is loathsome to me, extremely unattractive and annoying. And I happen to be an American but I find that the Chinese are far easier to talk to, far more considerate, open minded and less self-centered than the vast majority of whites (or most people from western countries for that matter).
Also take many Europeans and their lack of bathing and BO. I remember one hot summer day I was on the subway. There was only me and a few Brits on the train car. They were talking loudly and acting obnoxiously but what made the event so memorable was the incredible smell they were emitting. It smelled like old, crusty socks (and they were on the other side of the train car!). Many Chinese people do not like the way white people smell but rarely you hear them using these differences to justify racist behavior or exclusion practices towards white people. Sure not all white behave like this but that’s just the point. Not all Chinese behave like the negative portrayals.
This isn’t really about cultural differences but about how people react to them and what it says about them.
“Though I’ve never let it get very far I don’t like how they treat me. ”
This would be a deal breaker for most relationships. It might be your reaction to a different culture. I think the dynamics won’t favor Chinese men. Gender equality is not up to par in China.
Joy,
How did those Chinese men treat you that you didn’t like them? Maybe it’s just bad luck on your side and not all men will know how to talk and treat women right. I know what type of personality will fit you.. Someone who has my personality :). I hope you will find someone or Prince Charming :).
Bruce
@Joy. You wrote about your bad experiences with Chinese men and thus you are fairly repulsed although not 100% closed to the idea of dating them. Firstly I hope that you will find the man of your dreams be he White or non-White. Secondly, in your personal experience, did you hear of from any Western men in China who are dating Chinese women and had negative experiences? For example did these Western men say that Chinese women mistreat them? And if so, give details. The reason I am asking is that I am a White boy who is interested in Chinese women (or Asian women). Right now I just began a relationship with a Chinese girl and things are going well, but in time, things may change and thus I want to know so that I can prepare. Thanks.
Manny –
I think what you need to keep in mind is that MOST Chinese women are desperate to get married. They are under a lot of pressure to marry a rich man who can provide for them. Some people may argue with this but I’ve found that the Chinese marry for different reasons then we do in the west. They are very practical (house, a kid, money) where as love is most important to us.
I think the women are more open these days to western culture. They study English more then the men do. The problems I’ve heard about are when the relationship doesn’t work. Usually the women aren’t in it for fun. They want to get married – sometimes they start to say this almost immediately. So, if the guy is ready for it to be over and breaks up she’s not very happy. She’ll do whatever she can to keep the relationship – gifts, poems, letters, begging, etc.
Try being honest from the beginning and hopefully you don’t run into any problems. 🙂
Manny,
You worry too much! Listen to me for a minute. Follow your heart and don’t listen to me or any negatives from others. Most Chinese women don’t even want to marry you so don’t worry about it. We’re just generalizing here. You have to call the shot from now on. No, Chinese and asian women won’t mistreat you in general trust me
Bruce
@Joy. Thanks for giving me your perspective and analysis on Chinese women whom I just absolutey adore for all the reasons which I mentioned in prior comments months ago. I am glad to know that “most Chinese women are desperate to get married” as I will use this fact to my advantage now. I, too, want to get married to a Chinese goddess but first I must know that my current “fortune chicky” will be good to me or not; thus far, our relationship has just begun and everything is just wonderful so far. I know that in any relationship things can go awry after the “honeymoon” period is over. We have not talked about marriage yet but I am certain the question will inevitably arise.
Thank you so much for your help and if you hear of any more stories (successful or unsuccessful ones), kindly post them here and I will read them. Please help me succeed with my “fortune chicky.”
@Bruce. What!!!!!! I cannot believe that most Chinese women will not want to marry. Joy, wrote that most Chinese women are desperate to get married.” I am now confused. Are you saying that most Chinese women do not want to marry in general? Or are you saying that most Chinese women do not want to marry me? If they do not want to marry me, are you saying that I am an undersirable person? Or are you saying that they do not want to marry a White boy? Now, I am very confused.
Well, Bruce, my “fortune chicky” left my hometown today to return to California to be with her family for the holidays. Remember that I wanted to seduce her before she leaves? Well, I was very successful. Are you proud of me? I did it without sex toys and without Pamela’s help. Because I and my 2 sisters still live with my parents and my “fortune chicky” was staying with me in my sister Pam’s room for the last few days, I had to find private place to “bang” her. So, I asked one of my fellow White boys if he could lend me his place since he was going out of town along with his family and I promised to watch over his place (check the house, pickup the mail, water the plants, etc.). Well, he and his family gave me the keys; my fellow White boy allowed me to use his room so long as we do not dirty his place.
So, Bruce, it was like fireworks on the 4th of July!!!! I “banged” her. I have to say that this “fortune chicky” was the best compared to all of the other White chickies that I banged. Everything that Pamela told me was true. You will recall that Pamela told me that while she and Kate were showering in the university along with the other girls after their cheearleading exercise, Pamela said that Kate naturally (i.e. no shaving) had no hair on the arms and legs and very little hair in the pussy area. Well, I confirmed this fact last night. Her skin was silky smooth and hairless and without any stubbes unlike the White girls’s skin which has stubbles from shaving. She even used strawberry flavor on her lips to excite me. So, from now on, no more White chickies for me.
By next week, Bruce, I will likely disappear as my objective of having a Chinese girlfriend has been accomplished. Since she is solidly mine now and since she pleged to be my steady and loyal girlfriend, I no longer need to seek advice from you all. I may every now and then monitor the postings by Jocelyn out of curiosity.
Please answer the above query as I am confused.
Come back some more here and I will tell you why they don’t want to marry so soon. :). What makes you think that your “Chinese gf” will marry you ? Seriously, you two have not been through anything like real life issues. You two have not finished college. No solid jobs yet. You don’t even know if you will live in Calif or SC. Manny, you can’t base on other comments or other blogs say that Asian/Chinese women want to marry foreigners right away. I use the word “LUCKY” here alot and not everyone here will have the same luck in Chinese men or women. Just like not every asian/chinese men who will have “luck” with White/western women. I know lots and lots of asian/chinese women who are just WONDERFUL to talk to and be friends with. If you’re a woman in the West and you like to be pampered , spoiled like usual, don’t expect that you will get the same result in China or any other asian countries. Manny, do not think you’re a “white boy” in China and every single chinese girls will want to marry you in a heart beat. Most Chinese girls know that not every westerners are rich etc etc. UPDATE as of Dec 22,2012: Most Chinese people can come to the U.S.A with $500k and given a green card to stay if they invest in the U.S gov’t funds. $1 Millions is better but you have to open a company that will employ 10 U.S. citizens and you get full control of your company!!!!!! Manny, do you know this fact????? Tell me now damn it! Ask your current gf if I’m telling the truth that temple city, Arcadia, San Marino , Pasendena are loaded with Chinese people from the Mainland. Min. Home prices $1m ( a dog house) to $10 M +. Some Chinese people don’t even want to come to America anymore and that is a CURRENT FACT also!! I know 10 WMAW married couple here and all are successful ,loving couples with kids. Manny, the reason why I don’t want to say to much to you is this site is for WWAW couples only. You suppose to go to sites with mainly white men who will ” eagerly and 24/7 willingly ” want to decode the secret of Chinese women. I thought your white boy bros will help you out? What happened? Listen to me dude. Treat Kate well and you will thank me in the future. I won’t tell you so much since you will leave anyway. Leave now Manny that you’ve found out Chinese women are hairless and White women are hairy!!!!! DARN IT, I JUST LOSE ANOTHER STUDENT! LOL hehehehahahha . As you can see now that I’m a very committed Chinese man.
@ Bruce. Okay, I will not leave so soon then. I will leave sometime after the return of Kate in Jan. 2013 when she comes back to my state to resume her studies. The reason why I want to leave is because my primary purpose of having a Chinese gf has been achieved, and another reason is that I am wasting too much time searching on the internet about White men and Chinese (or Asian) women and spending too much time on this site especially. This site is too addictive for me even though it is not about White men & Asian women. The only reason I stayed for so long is because Jocelyn’s site is the most helpful, and you (Bruce) are one of the causes of my addiction to this site. Other sites simply are not content rich and/or simply want me to pay money to meet Chinese women. I am suspicious and leary about those sites which ask for money and then promise romance with a Chinese women in my neighborhood when there are few Chinese people in my small town.
FYI I am no longer a student as I am a working boy now and am earning some money (not much money but I have a job during this big recession). Kate’s family is a upper middle income family from the impression that I am getting. Although I do not have specific knowledge of her finances nor do I know her family’s finances, my impression is that they are doing fairly well in California. Yes, you are correct that it is too early in our relationship to be broaching the subject of marriage and children. But I am saying is that I now know why so many White boys are chasing after “fortune chickies” not only fo their good looks, the great sex but also the decent family values. These “fortune chickies” know how to budget as well, according to my fellow White boys. I do not know if Kate knows how to budget yet as our relationship is in its inception. But I will be certain to find out though.
Bruce, I have to say that Kate is much smarter than I thought. When I told her that I have to help a fellow White boy who is on vacation with his family by going to his house to take in the mail, water the plants, etc. and I asked if she wanted to go with me there for one hour or so, she seemed to know that my plan was to lure her there to seduce her. I thought that I could be sneaky and not tell her my true inteniton and then lure her there to seduce her. When I asked her to go with me, she giggled, rolled her eyes, and said something like this: “You White boys are pitiful.” I tried to deny my intention was none other than to go there for a routine maintenance of my friend’s house to take the mail, water the plants, feed the cat, etc. and to show her the “cool place of my friend.” She truly surprised me with her response to my invitation. I thought that “fortune chickies” are dumb and naive because I thought that their knowledge of sex and seduction is woefully inadequate compared to us Whites. This is what other White boys have been telling me. But I guess there are some smart ones and Kate even though she is only 21 is smart. I had thought that she was another dumb 21-year old who knows nothing and can easily be tempted and seduced by us “perdy” White boys.
Nevertheless, she did voluntarily come with me and was willing to have sex with me on my friend’s bed without resistance!!!!!!!
Bruce, we also had our first mini-argument before her departure back to California, and this is how it started. We had sex while the light was dim and afterwards, we cuddled in bed under the blanket. Then I was curious to know if her skin was truly and naturally silky smooth and naturally without hair (or was it artificially smooth due to shaving like the White chickies). In the dimness I could not see and even though I felt her skin was smooth but such smoothness could be due to shaving. So, I then turned on the light and lifted the blanket off her for a better view while she was laying on her back. She then protested and asked why I lifted the blanket off of her completely when it is cold as it is now winter. I replied by saying that I wanted to view the beauty of her nude body without telling her that my true intention was to see if other White boys were correct when they told me that Chinese female meat is naturally smooth without hair, unlike the White chickies who have to shave. While viewing her body, I passed my right hand on various parts of her body and brought my eyes close to each part. After about one minute she started to become angry and wanted to know why I was doing this type of examination and leaving her without blanket while the lights are brightly focused on her body. She said that she was feeling cold as it is winter. Again I lied to her by saying that I was trying to fully appreciate the beauty of a Chinese female skin.
Then she again demonstrated her smartness. She said something like this (for I do not recall the exact words and so I am paraphrasing): “are you trying to compare me to other girls?” Or are you trying to see if what other White boys have been telling you are correct or not about us Asian females.” Of course, I denied it. I simply reiterated that I am just trying to appreciate the beauty of Chinese women. To which she replied by saying something like this: “Well, you are disrespecting me by pulling the blanket off and leaving me cold while you are still covered and warm.” I then told her to not talk so much and allow me to appreciate your beauty. She replied again: “Well, I am cold!” So, she forcibly and abrupty grabbed the blanket and covered herself and turned off the lamp light again. I could not believe that a Chinese woman is so testy; I thought that they are more submissive as I was hoping that she would have simply allowed me to examine her body at length without complaining. I hope that Chinese women are not so testy as Kate seemed rather testy that evening of our first love making.
Do Chinese women become testy later in their relationship? Or are they submissive? Please advise.
@Bruce. I almost forgot. Merry Christmas to you and your family.
Manny,
Asian/Chinese women are not dumb and submissive you fool !!!! No women are dumb but some can be dumb. I told you not to listen to your dumb ass friends so much. Stop being naive man. Why don’t you get on your back and let her check you out if it’s true that you’re hairy like her friends say it’s true or not while she covers herself with blanket. How do you react without a blanket? 90 % + of Chinese women and men are taught to have a budget for everything. In Chinese families, we are taught to know the values of something. I will tell you about FAMILY VALUES in more details like nobody can discribe! Very few Chinese families will have foreclosures or have bad credits. Manny, stop checking out her body so much because in the long run , you will get tired of that. Right now you have to focus on compatibility and the future. Chinese women can be testy later on like any women but it’s up to you on how to handle it. You have to know how to adjust to her attitude and personality ,too. They sound mean sometimes but they mean no hurt. You just have to make Kate smile again. You will run into more little arguments soon you will see. You just have to let her know the real you no matter how angry you look at times. If you can’t make a woman laugh and smile then you’re useless, Manny!! Now listen carefully to me and read my lips ” DO NOT LISTEN TO YOUR DUMB ASS FRIENDS REGARDING SMOOTH SKIN AND CHINESE WOMEN BEING SUBMISSIVE”. Some Chinese women are very aggressive in business and they want the best from you. Most of them will care about you and your mom and dad etc. You just have to be that “lucky” person. Now turn off the god damn Chinese movies and get back to reality! Manny, if you want this relationship to work out, you just have to show more of your true self and less of your smooth skin fetish etc. You just have to meet her families and friends in California. By then you will know if her parents like you or not. Show respects and considerations while you’re there. Don’t be narrow minded and selfish. I’ve put some sense to my friend in California and now he is married and very happy. Normally, I’m not serious here because I don’t get paid but in real life people ask me for advices in many fields and many things in everyday life.
Bruce
manny
you’re an asian phile
Manny,
Have a Merry Merry Christmas with your families and loved ones!
Be a loving and caring person and the rest will be answered in front of you. Now back to my events.
Bruce
@CJ. Yes, I agree that I have “yellow fever.”
@Bruce. Thanks again for your advice. After careful reflection of the night of our mini-argument, I think I am in agreement with you and her that I somewhat disrepected her by pulling the blanket off of her during this cold winter in order to conduct a thorough examination of her skin and content. Later I did apologize to her and she laughed it off. I had a great time with her making love with me and we had a lot of sex together. We have been texting, emailing and talking telephonically to each other since her return to CA. I cannot wait for her to return in early Jan. 2013 at which time I will make a conscious effort to be serious with her and to be a good man to her, as I am becoming old now and want to get married by no later than 30-32. I am starting to become old and soon no woman will want me and thus I have to try to win Kate’s heart and mind to eventually marry her. I know that it is too early to pop the question of marriage and so I will wait for some months to see if she is the right person for me or not.
We will have to talk finances as well; decide where to live (i.e. California, S. Carolina, or some other state); decide on how many children; what to do in life; etc. Things are starting to get complicated bro. That is why by early Jan. 2013, I want to leave this site and focus on my girl and build our future. This site is too addictive and you (Bruce) are one of the causes of my addiction to this site.
Now that we had sex and love and it was great. What should I do next? I have asked this question to myself. I answered myself by saying that I want to be serious with her. She is in school for about another 1.5 to 2 years before graduation and is living in another town; I can only see her on the weekends (either I travel to her or she travels to my town). I wonder how I can build this relationship when we see each other only on the weekends. Texting, emails and phone calls only enable me to express so much as they are limited without the human face-to-face interaction. I guess I will do my best and then see where the path leads us. Will be married or not? Who knows.
They say that “love knows no boundry and cannot divide people.” People also say that “no oceans or continents can separate the love of a man and a woman if the love is strong enough.” I guess that I will put this notion to the test. With the help of Jocelyn’s site and from people like you, Bruce, plus a little luck, I will try to follow this idealistic path.
Manny,
How can a guy like me makes you soo addicting to come here? Do you believe in fate? To be honest, I have the same effect on people in real life so this is NO accident or incident that I have on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So most of the things I’ve said happened accordingly huh? Well, I want to lead you to the right direction and not blinded by your illusion from misleading people. Yes, I support you for focusing your future with her this Jan 2013. If she loves/likes you, she will follow you dude so don’t worry. You just have to excel in all categories and she will love you dude!! Yrs and yrs ago a woman followed me through 2 states tried to be with me. I don’t care if you have yellow fever or measles dude! Get your act together and be serious man! “When destiny arrives , not even lightning can split two people apart” LOL. Feel free to come back here again next yr. Maybe I won’t be here no more in the future hint hint :). What is next huh? Well, let her comes back and let things cool down. Why? so you won’t be too excited about having a new gf. This is the time when her true personality should come out once she is comfortible with you. Please work on all both of your daily/family problems and then you will know if you two are compatible as a couple. Good luck dude.
” I only fear good hearted people. I fear no bad people” — Bruce
Hi Bruc My Bro. Thanks for all of your advice. I will more likely than not leave this site by mid-Jan. when Kate returns and I will spend the time to work on our relationship. But before I leave, do you want to know the details of how I seduced her on Dec. 20, 2012 (the night I will never forget)? My intention was to seduce her but in reality the question of who seduced who was murky. In conclusion I think she ended up seducing me. Are you shocked? Do you want to hear the details? If so, let me know. If you cannot handle the gory details then I will spare you. Please advise
Manny,
You have my email address to tell me in private or you have to ask Jocelyn for permission to go into details. Most people are conservative here. I’ve heard plenty of stories so this is not new to me dude. So South Carolina women are that naughty huh?
Bruce
Please spare me!!! I can’t handle the glory details!! LOL soo funny 🙂 🙂 hahhahahhah ehehehehe . You can write your nasty version to me and the tasteful version with permission here due to lots and lots of traditional men and women here 🙂
Hi Bruce. I did not say that South Carolina’s women are raunchy. I am saying that Kate (a Chinese woman) is raunchy. I will tell the gory details before I leave this site in mid-Jan but first I must talk to Kate to see if she agrees to allow me to release this level of info. about our relationship. After all, since we are bf/gf now, we must make joint decisions as it is a sign of respect and love. If she allows me, then I will tell all about Kate’s Chinese-American style of seduction which I have never encountered before. Prior to my sexual experience with her, I had thought that Chinese women were dumb, passive and easy to seduce. I had thought that a White boy simply could rely on the “perdy” face and the well built body and then the Chinese woman will fall head over heels for him. But it was not the case much to my surprise.
Okay, once I talk to Kate, I will let you know what she says.
Manny,
How will you start the conversation with her? ” I have been coming to this site learning how to pick up asian/chinese woman?” Some women are very sensitive about you “learning” how to pick her up. Nooooooooooooooooo don’t ask her about this. In this case , don’t give details to us then. Everything will turn 360 degrees for you once she knows about this. Maybe after a yr or two and then you tell her or don’t tell her at all. I’m serious not everybody is open minded like me. Trust me there is something to be left alone. Kate will come here and look at every comments and she might misinterpret everything. I may be the dumbest guy around but it takes me half a second to see what will happen Manny. You are talking to a real grand master here :).
@ Bruce. Oh shit! I already emailed her and told her about everything and about this site, and I am waiting for her consent. I did not even think that Kate would then come to this site to monitor my behavior and communications. Oh shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are right, bro. May be she will come there to monitor us. But then again maybe Kate is a dumb Chinese woman and will not think to come here to monitor us. My impression of Chinese women is that they are naive, submissive, non-aggressive and not so smart. Then again maybe she is smart. Should I will immediately email her back to say that the email about disclosing her seduction was just a joke to dispell any thought by her to come here? You see how smart we White boys are? We can immediately repair things?
Good job by the way !! It’s okay. good luck dude. I’m going out with my wife for a long dinner. I love it !!!!!!!!!
@ Bruce. I just emailed her again to tell her that my prior email was simply a joke or a hoax hoping to dispell from her mind any thought of her coming here to monitor us. You see how smart we White boys are? We can turn fast and avoid difficult situations. Do you think Chinese women are as smart as we are? I doubt it.
I admire your positivity, Jocelyn. I enjoyed reading this post about your past experiences, and I strongly believe that all relationships (or failed relationships) are learning experiences, no matter what country we’re in.
Manny,
I think you live in S. Carolina too long but I like people from the small towns. They are just honest people unlike most city people. Do you think “kate” is dumb? I don’t think so. It’s time for you to move out of S. Carolina and smell the coffee dude like California or NY. First of all, I don’t care about who’s going to monitor us. At least, I’m very honest on my side on everything. I think you’re fine now, Manny. I hope your relationship will work out if both of you are understanding.
Let’s get back on track again. Yes, we should be positive after several relationships that have been failed until we find the right compainion..I have been so busy with so many things latlely.
“My impression of Chinese women is that they are naive, submissive, non-aggressive and not so smart” <—- This will be your failure here. I know 3 WMAW couples that the Chinese women are making 3 times more money than their White boy husbands. I don't know where you get your fact from or your friends have been corrupting your young ,naive brain. 🙂 I want to see how smart you are once she grab the bull by the balls. Manny, when you travel alot like me, you will understand soon. Turn off the sterotypical movies portraying asian/chinese women such as submissive, naive etc before people will tell you the truth here. Just like sterotypes about asian/ chinese men. Are we really that shy and timid, a book worm with glasses? In Chinese culture, we tend not to show off . Manny, do I sound Alpha or Beta? I'm neither hahahhah LOL because both of the men listen to me. hahahahah. That's another level a lot of people can't reach yet :). Maintaining a relationship is the hardest, Manny. Is losing weight hard or maintaining weight loss hard ? Of course, maintaining at a certain weight is hard. It's not about picking up a Chinese or White or Black woman. I actually really don't care if your relationship is real or not real. You just have too much to lose than ALL OF US HERE if you can't maintain a relationship. I've been with the same woman for almost 15 yrs and counting… The thing about me is that I'm rounded, fit and knowledgeable about life. Just by typing here is tiring so imagine a relationship .
@manny@Bruce, hahahahaha, I’d love to see you guys chatting, so funny.
manny, there are many types of people in the same country. Chinese women are very different from each other. When you are say Chinese women are blablala, i was lol…..
Caroline,
So you love it huh? Say it out loud that you love 🙂 .
Women are very smart and also very fast ( light yr speed) at clicking searches on sales for purses, clothes and shoes :).
Well, It is understandable that Manny thinks that Chinese women are dumb, naive etc. He doesn’t hang out with Chinese people yet. This is called inexperienced. We forgive you bro. When you go to University campuses in California , you will know if asian/chinese women are dumb, naive or not. They dominated the universities already . *sitfu sitfu * 🙂 LOL hahahhaha sacrasm . Okay back to my job
Bruce 🙂
what a disgrace. seems like you have been living under a rock or you’ve just been watching too much silly kungfu movies and asian porno. there’s no real genuine relationship here -its just all sex and then she will find a hotter smarter guy than you for a bigger bang. it won’t last.
Hi Jocelyn,
I think your blog is just fine. It’s meant to be positive, in general, which is realistic given that your positive experiences led you to marry the man who makes you happy. You have also shared the hardships you’ve had in that relationship and also the challenges you faced when you started dating Chinese men. There’s no need to set things up to be negative. We already have enough of that to deal with. This site, to my mind anyway, appears to be set up to counter most of the negative malarkey that tends to build when people don’t understand. I think that’s something that unfortunately is true about AMWF relationships because they’re not as common as the reverse.
Given that, you offer a forum for people to ask questions or offer their own experiences, and people share openly and honestly, which is the beauty of this format and group. I’ve been a long time reader and have been happy with what you’ve done here and hope you continue to move forward with a positive vibe and strong spirit. People flock, because this is a place that understands them…not the other way around. If they wanted negative, or something else that isn’t here, then it’s really not so difficult to find it, but they’d have to do a little work and look elsewhere. Let them go and be happy.
That’s my two bits.
There are many things that people don’t understand so you will have misunderstandings. I have friends who are white boys so I do understand everything. Let me tell you people here once and for all here! It’s the QUALITY of a person that you want no matter what he or she is. She can be white, hispanics, blacks or asians ( chinese, Japanese,Vietnamese etc). Without quality, you will have lots of problems in the relationship. I currently know lots of people who are in troubles now. When you get a mirror and look at yourself once in a while then you will know you’re not young anymore. We all age.
Manny,
Are you still okay? Any good news ? You’ve made a right choice by spending more time with your gf instead of here .
Bruce
@Bruce. Actually I am in a lot of trouble! I was not thinking when I told Kate about my idea to disclose our intimacy on this site. You will recall that I emailed her with excitement about sharing our love story and especailly how we made love for the first time. Then you advised me to not to tell her to come here until some time passes (i.e your advice was not to be impulsive). Well, apparently I did not receive your advice in time and so I emailed her and asked her permission; and then after I received your advice, I immediately emailed her to tell her that it was just a joke and not to come to this site. Well guess what? She did come to this site and read everything. She read about my attempt to seduce Chinese girls in H.K., about my desire to have more than one Chinese girl, about how I declared my love for Jocelyn Eikenburg, about my attempt to seduce her (Kate), about how Pamela helped me, etc.
Well, after she read it all, she was ABSOLUTELY LIVID!!!!!! She accused my sister Pamela of being in collusion with me to help me seduce a her. She accused me of not being genuine or serious. She accused me of being “nothing but a philandering playboy.” She even accused you Bruce of helping me hide the truth by advising me not to tell her to come here until one year later. She also accused me of being a sexist and a borderline racist because I referred to Chinese girls as “fortune chickies.” She said that the term sounds so sexist and even racist as “chicky” sounds like “chinky.” So, I spent the entire week or so trying to tell her how sorry I was and to try to repair things. She wanted to break up with me. At times, I emailed and texted her but she did not respond. Later in the week she calmed down a little bit. Suffice to say my new year was not so great in light of the trouble I got myself into. Well, this morning I met her at the airport and tried to make the mend along with Pamela. Pamela was also irate at me for being so stupd. Susan was laughing at me. My parents could not believe what had happened. I guess, Bruce, that I was so in love with Kate that I was not thinking; I was being impulsive because I had just fallen in love with Kate.
So, now Kate and I are a little bit better. She allowed me to still come to this site but I have to declare the following in order to make the mend:
1) I will not disrespect Chinese women or any women at all;
2) I am not and will never be a philandering playboy;
3) I disavow my love for Jocelyn Eikenburg
4) I will not think that Chinese women are dumb, naive or submissive;
5) I will not call Chinese women as “fortune chickies” anymore but will call them ladies and other proper terms;
6) I love you Kate and no other women
7) I will not speak non-sense with Bruce or anyone else anymore.
Is this enough for you Kate? I love you.
@Bruce, I am sorry but I cannot talk non-sense with you anymore because Kate will be monitoring us from now on.
Thank you for this post Jocelyn. Its very easy to hate an entire population based on one bad experience, and generalize your experiences. But I am glad to know that things worked out for you and your post gives hope and faith to many women look for “the one”, may he be chinese or not.
ahahhahah I love it dude. Manny, I told you to use your big head first and not the little head. I think this is good for you. Please I want everybody to monitor us including “kate” and your families to prove that I’m honest in every ways. You have to know how to differentiate from non-sense to reality. I told you to turn off the chinese movies but you didn’t listen to me. In real life, Chinese people (men and women) are not dumb and naive etc. China has a 5000 yrs history and invented gunpowder, printing press, compass etc . Within 30 yrs , China has broken records in educations ( worldwide level), gdp growth and lifting chinese citizens from poverty etc. 🙂 Was I right that most things will happen accordingly to what I’ve said ? Non sense is harmless sometimes no matter how you say it as long as you have a concrete foundation with your families, gf/wife then it’s okay. They know that you are a truly responsible,honest person already. Like I’ve said before treat “kate” like any other women, you will thank me in the future. You have to listen to me sometimes eventhough I’m pulling your leg at times. Now be a loving and caring person and the possibilities are endless. No more advices for you Manny as I’m planning to become a MONK 🙂 lmao. j/k. I’m not pure enough to walk that path yet still feel voilent sometimes when the right button is pressed.
Manny,
Why I said tell your gf after one yr? Why? ask yourself that question. Normally, a healthy relationship will last more than a yr . By then, you two will understand each other and it doesn’t matter what is in the past anymore. You are very lucky that you’ve met me here because you supposed to be another DELUSIONAL white boy like your friends and majority of white boys out there. Not many asian men like me are willing to clarify some sterotypes floating regarding asian men out there. In real life, I’ve surpassed sterotypes and others expectations.
What stands between many couples and happiness is cultural differences, I mean that in a macro and micro form.
@Bruce. Well, things are getting better now.
After Kate arrived at the airport and we spent some time together along with my family, things are better. I am happy to report that things have improved and I am now not so stressed.
When Kate was yelling at me on the phone when she was in CA and later she yelled at Pamela over the phone in December, my parents come to Pam’s room to see what was happening. I had no choice but to confess to my parents the truth and about my activity at this site. They then were livid too. They came to this site and read all of my postings and they got very mad. I got Pamela and Susan into trouble. They were upset that my sisters walked in low cut skirts in H.K. to see if they can get attention. They were angry that I took Pamela to a bar in Discovery Bay and she got drunk. Pamela was 20 and is still 20 right now and she was not supposed to be drinking at age 20. They read all of my comments about my views and intention of pikcing up a Chinese goddess. So, needless to say, I was alienated from my family for a while. Now things are better. Kate and I are still together and I love her very much. Sorry to my family for those comments previously (I know all of you will read this). Sorry Susan. Sorry Pamela. Sorry mom and dad. Sorry Kate.
I promise that I will give up this site by then end of Jan. 2013.
So, Bruce, my bro, things are better for me.
Manny,
First of all, you can’t blame on this site or any other sites. This site is about AMWW ;however, I have white guy friends ,too. Other people will think that it’s weird for a Chinese man here telling you what chinese women are thinking is absurd. From my points of view, helping a “person” is good no matter who/what he is. I don’t expect anybody to help me in return seriously. I’ve learned to help myself and rely on myself. I have no entitlement issues like the avg AMERICANS! I came from a big city in California and things could be very complicated. Remember you live in a small town S.C. where things are not that complicated. I told you that things will turn 360 degrees because there are things that will be misunderstood!! I know that you like Chinese women in a good way and other people and your families will not understand. Some comments can be misinterpreted in bad ways more than good intentions. Manny, “kate” felt like she was being “played or scammed” because she didn’t know that you really liked/loved her or trying to score and leave. I think your parents don’t want a son who has a womanizing/seducing attitude or someone will become a rapist. Now do you still think Chinese/Asian women are dumb and naive? If you have GOOD intentions coming here then you will be fine with your gf and families. You know when I was your age at 27, I’ve learned so much about life. I had to grow up fast when I was young while you guys were still drinking MILK. Listen to me Manny, invite your gf over to your home for dinner with your parents and sisters and chat. Trust me everything will be fine. It’s all about family and understanding. If you keep on NOT listening to me on moving toward the right direction, you will have a very hard time. I deal with family issues and teach people on communicating with their families. I’m not a counselor. I’m just a problem solver.
I understand where your mom and dad are coming from. I know a chinese man who used to think that his son shouldn’t marry outside his culture but right now he has changed his mind. He will let his son marry whoever ( other ethnicities) he likes as long as the future daughter in law is a down to earth and a good woman. At the age of 27, don’t you think you can do whatever you want? Once the right man/woman comes along, parents usually will change their mind. Trust me I see too often. You like to talk to me huh? 🙂 LOL. Damn how come everybody likes to talk to me even in real life ;however, I talk a little bit different here. I work for nobody as I am self employed so I guess I have some time to talk a little. Yrs ago, I used to work my ass off days and nights yr round. Now it’s relaxed time for me.
Do you people know that the average Americans will judge you after coming out from watching a movie? Movies and media protraying a group of men/women, It’s is just misleading informations. Like China is taking away American jobs or China is the enemy of U.S. etc. My answers: 1) The U.S corporations are greedy and loosing competitive edge to other countries, so they are seeking cheaper labor costs to compete. 2) China is not the enemy. China has only 1/10 of the military power compare to the U.S. The U.S is sticking its nose on everyone’s business . For example, if you an intruder who always walk around my property line when you freaking live alllll the way from other city. Do I have the right to defend myself and my family? I don’t care what is the level of your college degree, Masters, BS or PHD. If you don’t have common sense , throw your god damn certificate in the trash can . throw a match and gasoline and burn it.
Jocelyn, this is the most endearing post so far! We all had our dating trials and tribulations (well, at least the ones who actively date). But it only takes that one special love to transcend all that! I too was devastated to learn that my Chinese gf had a fiance already and was using our relationship for her own Ego boost! Unfortunately extramarital affairs are rampant in China….Yes Chinese women does this too where they foul around while still being engaged or married.
This is very beautifully written. It hit me right in the heart (even though I’ve never particularly dated a Chinese man – or any other Japanese guy before my husband, I guess).
I think it’s amazing you didn’t give up after all those false starts 🙂
And thank you (as always) for writing~