Why "white loser laowai & Chinese women" is a thorny topic | Speaking of China

118 Responses

  1. Rdm
    Rdm January 20, 2014 at 10:09 am | | Reply

    There have been several blogs, essays on this thorny interracial issue, especially White Men and Asian Women pairs.

    Everybody has their own interpretation of how those relationship exists, how they come into existence. Some defend their righteous relationship out of love. Some accuse others. There is a power struggle between Men and Women in a relationship, i.e., traditionally. Now with throw-in interracial relationship, the power struggle is not only between Men and Women, it already encroached upon between Asian men Vs White men, Asian women Vs White women.

    The social stigma of “Meal ticket” White men and Asian women pairs inevitably spills over other legitimate White men and Asian women pairs. That is more prevalent in contrast to Asian men and White women pairs.

    Now White women are calling their White men to step up to their game and calling out not to marry Asian women.

    http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?77783-TO-ALL-WHITE-MEN-please-don-t-date-and-marry-Asian-girls-(-ugly-make-up-fake-)

    http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?90682-White-men-and-Thai-women-(-if-you-can-t-find-a-women-)

  2. Rdm
    Rdm January 20, 2014 at 10:20 am | | Reply

    I’d like to chime in my experience on interracial relationship.

    I have a close friend of mine, White man and Asian woman, specifically Korean woman. They both are very nice and I do find their relationship “normal”.

    The reason I quoted “Normal” here is because they both are highly educated, happened to be in the same work environment, the guy is smart, funny, the girl is “the woman” in a sense of “being able to cope with the household and such.” They guy always brags (in a good manner) how his girl cut his hair every now and then. They’re both in the same range of age.

    They make a good couple. For that, I can understand “love” can be borne out of closeness and friendship.

    But if you go to Phuket, Bangkok, Singapore Geylang, Indonesian Bali, there are tons of LBH and Asian women. The sight of those pairs (can’t even worth mentioning “couple” for them) makes me puke (figuratively).

    PS. “LBH”, what a great acronym. I love it.

  3. Rdm
    Rdm January 20, 2014 at 10:54 am | | Reply

    My last piece of comment is

    I’m a Chinese descent, currently dating a white girl. My $0.02 observation is

    For girls to become a good-looking, sexy, mesmerizing type of a woman, it’s much more easier for Asian women in this arena to succeed with a lot of contributing factors. The major factor here is
    –> Money
    Once you got that, women find it easier to step up to the dating game, appreciate their value and they can be pretty, beautiful and good looking.

    [From the hindsight, you might think, I presume women are gold digger. Not a tiny bit I think such way.]

    From what I wanted to point out is, Asian women are usually slim. They don’t have to overcome 150-200lb obese type of American women to become good-looking in their prime age. All they need is straighten their hairs, puff moisturizer every now and then, behave prim and proper and they are already A stars.

    Now look at the Asian guys to become Mr. Right, (Especially for Western girls),

    1. Tall
    If you’re 5’6”, you can’t go back to your mother womb and genetically change the femur, tibia bone length. Since most of the Western women are around the range, it’s better for Asian guys to be taller.
    –> Solution : No

    2. Muscular
    Not like Arnold, but just to be mentally dependable, and good-looking type of body.
    –> Solution : Hit the gym regularly

    3. Language
    If you’re not fluent in English, there’s no way you’re going to lead the conversation in social setting in Western. Unless some western girls with Mandarin skill come to China.
    –> Solution : Which locale you wanted to have a western girlfriend; Western or Eastern and work on your language.

    4. Qualification
    Let’s get real. I’m not talking about MSc. PhD. MD. I’m talking about future prospect and how Asian guy can lead the relationship with some stable income and support. Yes, there are AMWF couple where WF are earning more. But let’s be real, those are after marriage and things happen out of control. But in dating scene, if you’re a shop owner of Chinese herbal medicine in rural area and western women already English teacher with government paycheck?
    –> Solution : Work on yourself or the size of your dating pool would be extremely small.

    5. Confidence
    Asian men have to overcome Anglo-centric brainwashing stereotypes prevalent among Western women.
    –> Solution : Build up all the 4 factors described above.

    And when you compare all the requirements, it’s not so much simple as “Love is true.” between Men and Women.

    I. So Asian men, if you’re reading this, I, Rdm Chinese, a regular here in Jocelyn’s blog, beg all of you in your prime age, for the sake of our Asian community, at least get the hell out of your room and hit the gym for god sake!!

    II. And for thousands times, floss your freaking teeth like there’s no tomorrow. It doesn’t cost you a penny. If you don’t have Oral-B, just steal your mommy thread and Just Do It.

    III. For the last time, When you walk, just try to walk like your two feet are directing forward, not like 45% outward from the center line. You are human being walking straight, not like a DUCK, for crying out loud.

    That’s for now.

    1. Ken M
      Ken M January 20, 2014 at 8:59 pm | | Reply

      Except Asian men are considered the least desirable men on the planet.

      http://www.policymic.com/articles/74135/are-asian-men-undateable

      Old myths die hard consider the myth of the Chinese vagina, or small dick this was spread in the 1820s it is STILL widely asked today on some forums. Sure things might change in 200 or so years but I will be dust by then.

      Even Chinese women don’t want to date Chinese men. Have a look at Craigslist for Asia, many of the adverts want white only. We find Chinese women in the USA holding up signs on street corners that they will only date whites.

      1. Eddie123
        Eddie123 December 27, 2014 at 12:22 pm | | Reply

        I have seen often, ugly white guys cannot date white woman, he has no problem scoring on Chinese women. Chinese women are very accessible to white guys. If you are white and you cannot get dates with Asian women, you may as well turn gay. Of course this is not always true but by in large, it is.

    2. Eddie123
      Eddie123 December 27, 2014 at 12:29 pm | | Reply

      I do not know what kind of taste you have, or what type of standards you have. If a white woman gains weight, it is true the she would no longer be attractive. Wouldn’t you agree that only half of white women are not over-weight. On the other hand, most Chinese women , especially those who live in China, are just NOT attractive even when they are slim, or should I say curveless. I have been to China many times and have seen millions of Chinese women, it is very rare to find ONE good looking one.

      In Europe and in the US, good looking white girls are in great numbers.

  4. Shanghai Ronin
    Shanghai Ronin January 20, 2014 at 11:27 am | | Reply

    Rdm, that advice is gold.

  5. Luc
    Luc January 20, 2014 at 12:05 pm | | Reply

    @Rdm,

    It is very interesting to notice that there might be a contradiction in your kind suggestions for all Asian compatriots that your criticism is aiming at.

    If, one Asian male is well-educated in rule 4, for fairness’ sake, his counterpart, the white girl should also be well-educated. Now if the white girl is well-educated, she won’t be fooled by your rules 1 to 3; these belong to stereotypes(orientalism) regarding Asians, only ill-educated girls will be persuaded, don’t they? Tall or not that tall, muscular or not, fluent in English or not, these are for business-type relationships(because you suggested decisions made in a relationship could be based on height, appearance and wealth), hence the very type of relationship we don’t want to see. If you believe there is true love, then don’t list those kind of ‘how-to’ rules because in specific individual case, both sides of well-educated people, they are smart enough to sort it out.

    I also sense minor complacency from your comments as if you sent them from moral high ground. If you believe other Asians could do better, as you are doing now, just show your sincerity and kindness to let them know that Asians could do better. They will never feel encouraged if you tell them “the reality” like a fastidious pedagogue.

    1. Emily
      Emily January 23, 2014 at 10:17 am | | Reply

      @ Luc

      I think you’re missing the key point in Rdm’s argument. Sure, love can be blind once you find it, but I don’t believe in love at first sight, and I don’t think you do either. So how do you find out if you have “true love”? Well, first you have to find someone you’re attracted to. Let’s admit the truth– we are all a little bit vain, both males and females, and we naturally want to be closer to someone we’re–well– attracted to! And just to be brutally honest, both genders tend to find someone taller, fitter, and well-spoken more attractive right away. A potential partner’s education level comes out a little bit later.

      Imagine I was a person who never brushed my teeth, and someone told me, “Hey, men might find you more attractive if you brush your teeth!” It would be slightly absurd for me to stomp my foot and say, “Well, if this guy really loved me, it would not matter whether I brush my teeth or not!” Does that seem petty to you? Same idea.

      So what gives me authority to speak like this? Well, I’m a white American girl dating a Chinese international student. We met each other at our university so you could say I have a “decent” level of education. A few weeks into our relationship, my boyfriend brought me ice-skating (I am not very good- hey, I grew up in the south!) and after a while he showed off and started lapping me, skating backwards as I made my way along, and picking me up when I fell. Words can’t describe how sexy I found that– who says there’s no benefit to becoming more athletic?

      1. Luc
        Luc January 23, 2014 at 11:46 am | | Reply

        @Emily,

        I am not sure you read my entire debate exchanges with @Rdm or not. In the post below, When I say
        [—–

        “It is not our faith, body, and wealth that matters, it is our mind.”

        —–]
        it implies that when “I am(not necessary for anyone but by choice) already a man of strong convictions, full of righteous of indignation; a fantastic swimmer and hardworking professional active in technical communities”, it is still not those conditions(again neither necessary nor sufficient) that contribute to a “true love world”; the labour and time that are spent on figuring out what love is and why it is love(for me) is. This is something way beyond what muscularity and money can measure, and it is one of those things that distinguish human relationships from that among other animals. Certainly, a strong, healthy male elephant seal with his harem of thirty females, they form a small happy circle and I am quite sure they think each other very sexy; but as human beings we can use thinking, writing, or any other intellectual activities to extend the original animal “happy circle” to a larger human “happy circle” — structures in modern society tell us that we are less prone to polygamy(no offence to Muslims)[different from elephant seals’ animal relationships]; since 1967, interracial marriage has been legal in US[definitely there were innumerable debates, conflicts, either physical or mental which brought us this treasure]. Any one who can REASON would agree why we should eliminate the once barriers in the old days. Thus in my mind, physical characters are desirable, but MINDSET is indispensable for human relationships[again different from elephant seal’s cruel fighting for win-or-lose].

        If you have an athletic Chinese boyfriend and you appreciate his sexiness, that’s great. I am not against it, my point is if you are in a true love position in the first place no matter how you got there[by “education” or “reading” I suppose], your decisions will not be limited by your date’s appearance. His many other merits will dwarf his physical attractiveness in the end. Hence I was saying that I was trying to prove there is a loophole in rule 4 in @Rdm’s statements.

  6. Rdm
    Rdm January 20, 2014 at 12:25 pm | | Reply

    @Luc,

    For the list between Women and Men, if you believe “Love is there.”, yes, there is. But when it comes to height and body, Asian men need to step up to the plate if you want to maximize your dating pool towards Western. If you’re still confined within Asians, yes, there’s no problem because our structure and our culture already do the groundwork. For western girls, if you’re 5’6”, Asian men would find “real love” elusive enough between Asian men and Western women. I meant “elusive”, not “impossible”.

    “Moral high ground”?
    I grew up in China town, I can speak basic Mandarin and my local Fujianese dialect, Hokkien. I hang out with different circles of friends. I used to encourage my Chinese friends to hit the gym. I even invite them to join with me going to the gym. For all I know, my invitation always fell into deaf ears. They’d say “对对,非常好.” Then, never ever did they step into the gym.

    “The reality like a fastidious pedagogue”
    If you’re a fan of reading many books; fictions, novels, knowledge, information, you’d realize that my prose was meant as a touch of frustration and sincere suggestion.

    Anyway, I do hope more Asian men will step to the plate and I believe more and more are hitting the gym these days.

  7. Luc
    Luc January 20, 2014 at 1:09 pm | | Reply

    @Rdm,

    Still, I believe any looking-based decisions are of nonsense. If I know that the white girl I want to date is influenced by what you billed as “let’s get real” rules, I would immediately cross her name out of my “dating pool”.

    It is not our faith, body, and wealth that matters, it is our mind.

    I have a feeling that your “let’s get real” rules imply that we have to calculate costs and profits based on height, appearance and wealth, managing a relationship like doing business. It is truly dangerous. Imagine that, ten years in to a couple’s marriage, there must be someone younger, taller, more handsome and with more promising future and steady income, shall the married couple reassess the status of their marriage at the ten years’ milestone, based on how he looks ten years after compared with that young lad, whether he can earn as much as the young lad, or he is taller than the young lad?

    I am not saying it is not important to live a healthy life. But it is so obvious that there is of no necessity to remind anyone of the importance of being in a good shape simply because I believe a grown up living in the West is smart enough to take care of him/herself, including how to have a good dating experience.

    1. Rdm
      Rdm January 20, 2014 at 10:46 pm | | Reply

      @Luc,

      I think I’m gonna stop our conversation here with my last input.

      “Let’s get real” mean let us all get “REAL” actual thinking of what nature is calling us out in dating scene and marriage.

      We (especially YOU in this case, after I’ve been sending out the subtle nuances of sarcasm, frustration, sincere suggestion, you still don’t get it), We can still enjoy in the fantasy world of “Where is Love, Where is Love, Baby Don’t hurt me, no more” tune.

      “Still, I believe any looking-based decisions are of nonsense. If I know that the white girl I want to date is influenced by what you billed as “let’s get real” rules, I would immediately cross her name out of my “dating pool”.”

      White girls, or any girls for that matter, will not approach any guys with the “Let’s get real” banner. A woman is a woman. A guy is a guy. In order to start a relationship, we all go from “Flirting”, “Complimenting”, “Building up the closeness”. But all those initial stages requires what I have listed above. Even in those initial stages, guys won’t approach like “I just wanted to get into your pants.” And girls won’t claim like “You know, I just want a stable life and someone I can be proud of in my circle of friends, family.”

      If “Love” and “Mutual understanding” essential in relationship, of course, they are the core of any stable relationship and make them last longer. But when I said “Let’s get real”, I’m not here to talk about “Love” in a pedantic fashion.

      I like your assessment of after marriage and seeing a younger man with stable income and more handsome stature. That calls for another topic which is “Infidelity”. Nothing to do with the list I showed above, which was meant to maximize your dating pool.

      If you want to talk about “Infidelity”, when the topic comes up in this blog, shoot them up.

      1. Luc
        Luc January 21, 2014 at 12:00 am | | Reply

        @Rdm

        I’m sorry you’re very mistaken. I don’t think my true love world and the one you mentioned have any intersection so please don’t use your newly invented “Where is Love, Where is Love, Baby Don’t hurt me, no more” thing to label me. I only believe in existence of well-educated white girls(I am sure there are many) who won’t compromise their convictions with any looking-based stereotypes.

        I was trying to prove that there is a possible loophole in your guidelines Nothing else. The philosophy of your rules or dating methodology sounds like job hunting(not the kind based on pure interests and enthusiasm, but the one for solely earning bread), or any hunting. Some company likes its applicants to have some skills or merits, if the applicant currently doesn’t have them, don’t worry, he can work hard on anything which helps them obtain those “required” skills. Then he is “qualified.” Oh, we are humans and a relationship is intimacy between a man and a woman. Isn’t your guidance looking like exchanges of calculations between an employer and an employee?

        If you only list some rules of thumb “how to win”(even necessary conditions) a white girl but not the scientific and social reasons “why” white girls desire muscular, taller and wealthy dates, is this striking a chord with social stigma the whites prefer that Asians are tailored in a pattern fabricated or interpreted in a white-point-of-view, not in the original Asian form, i.e., orientalism?

  8. Kun Tong Tung
    Kun Tong Tung January 20, 2014 at 7:24 pm | | Reply

    Let’s get real. Asian women have tighter pussies. White guys have bigger dicks. And China is a country with @600 million women and oh….1 million white expats. Go figure WTF you think is happening and why.
    It’s all about the sex, stupid.

    1. Fool's Paradise
      Fool's Paradise January 21, 2014 at 3:21 am | | Reply

      Kun Tong Tung, you are the one who is stupid as you completely missed the mark.

      Asian women have smaller breasts so following your own senseless logic, your juvenile explanation makes no sense at all.

      Also LBH white men are called “Losers” for a reason: they are sexually incompetent, physically repulsive, socially awkward, …

      So, it’s not all about sex, STUPID. It is more about internalized racism by Asian women, and loser white guys living in a fool’s fantasy.

      But many of these relationships end up in despair. Like my jilted white male friend used to tell me, “An Asian wife is for life, unless your money runs out.” And when I asked my Asian colleague who was looking for an American husband, “What if you make more money than him?” She replied, “If he makes less than me, I probably won’t stay with him.”

      So you are the one who is STUPID if you are narrow-minded enough to think it’s just all about sex.

      1. Fool's Paradise
        Fool's Paradise January 21, 2014 at 3:26 am | | Reply

        Oh, and Yes, white men have small penises, too LOL

  9. Ken M
    Ken M January 20, 2014 at 8:48 pm | | Reply

    There are many many LBH types in China, vast numbers of them. I see a lot of them because I work in ESOL, (I am qualified and licensed back home and I am about to finish my Phd).

    Anyway schools play the face game, i..e they want white faces regardless of ability, people unemployed in the UK with no teaching qualifications see such jobs and go for them.

    White face = easy to get a teaching job even if you do not speak English.

    Teaching pays better than local jobs and even min wages back home, so they appear to be rich to the locals.

    Asia is infested with unqualified teachers, nobody questions them because they lack the ability to do so, they also
    dont seem to observe lessons much either relying on me white face, me teacher.

    Any teacher who is worth their salt is teaching in a Tier I Chinese university, Saudi, Japan, or Hong Kong.

    I go to Beijing on and off for inductions for Chinese students to come to the UK and there are LBH and chinese
    women relationships everywhere esp in the artificial lake north of the forbidden city. The kind of guys who look sickly
    weak who were picked on at home or were picked last for the football games (soccer).

    Hell just look around a bit and there are very large communities of LBH men who go to China with fake certificates
    to ‘teach’ and only care about getting laid constantly.

    My personal experience is that almost all the relationships if you can call them that aren’t equal at all.

    It is even funnier when watching the Chinese version of Take me out.

    http://www.itv.com/beontv/take-me-out/

    You get tons of LBH guys who want ‘rich big sisters’ they universally get slammed and rejected by everyone.

  10. Jenna Cody
    Jenna Cody January 20, 2014 at 9:46 pm | | Reply

    “Or in other words, it’s the China Daily article published a few years back titled Foreign women label [China] a dating wasteland. This is also thorny territory…because then the question comes, why aren’t they interested in dating Chinese men?”

    From my experience, a lot of them *are* interested in dating Chinese men, they’re just not successful at it. The Chinese men are too shy to ask them out, or they don’t understand the cultural differences inherent in being pursued by a Chinese man (or just don’t want to be pursued that way), or they are interested but feel “invisible” (especially larger or older women). They may strike out because they’re divorced and the men they meet tend to run away when they hear this, or they may have problems because their personalities, values and expectations don’t conform to what many (but certainly not all!) Chinese men expect. ie they’re feminists who have the bad luck of continually meeting sexist guys, and not the good guys out there (of which I am sure there are many in China).

    It is absolutely not easily diluted to “Some expat women label China a dating wasteland because they’re not interested in Chinese men”. Often the exact opposite reason is true!

    1. Rdm
      Rdm January 21, 2014 at 7:47 am | | Reply

      Jenna,

      Yes, you’re right about the mutual interest between Asian men and Western women. Oftentimes, I found western women who show some interest in Asian men. But they are subtle. No matter what kind of women color is composed of, white, yellow, brown, black, it always will be the case Majority of women won’t approach guys of any races even if they’re interested. They will go to the grave single even if the guy they’re interested never approach and enjoy watching from afar. That’s my experience.

  11. IC
    IC January 21, 2014 at 2:21 am | | Reply

    Saving face is the most important thing in Western society. In western culture, it is rare to admit mistake or failure. Thus, privacy is extremely important for westerners to hide their defects since western culture is about winner admiring and loser despising. Very little sympathy for losers in West.

    So in West, it is forever self-promoting mind set. Western women rather to be single than associated them-self with “loser” asian men to save their face. As we all know, such “loser” image is product of western media and propoganda to make all non-white looks inferior.

    My white women colleagues often more care more about looking-good than quality of their work. As long as it looks good, it is good in their mind. This kind of mindset explain many thing going on in Western culture.

    White men with Asian women will argue on behalf of their face-saving by insulting white women. Again it is about looking good.

    Even in Korean war, or Vietnam War, Western political leaders looked for diginified way (face-saving) to end the war to avoid the words of failure or defeat. To save face, they are willing to accept lies to feel good about themself. No wonder religion is so important for them. Just to feel good.

    Saving face is the core of Western culture.

    1. primepeng
      primepeng September 19, 2014 at 2:11 pm | | Reply

      I think you are writing an Asian essay for your English class assignment.
      define saving face.
      Saving face is…
      In….
      Thus….
      So….
      … rather…
      As we all know….
      … often…
      Again…
      Even in…
      To…
      No wonder…
      (Conclusion and stress on the subject concretely) Saving face is…

  12. Chen Gang
    Chen Gang January 21, 2014 at 3:49 am | | Reply

    @Rdm,

    I appreciate your opinions on this, but it also strikes me as one of those ABC advices to the FOBs — a lot things you take for granted are huge obstacles to the FOBs, not only the Chinnese, all the first gen immigrants are facing the same cultural challenges except the UK or the Euro countries who may have a lesser of difficulties.

    IMO, the physical attributes and appearances are not the primary road blocks in dating white women for the foreign born Asians, the cultural, especially the pop culture is. In the end, the successful amwf couples are not your “everage” American women/Asian men combo, in most of the cases, these white women already had strong interests in Asian/other cultures, which serves the common ground. Be honest, most overseas Asian men who are hot on white women, probably not that keen in the white women who use “standard” mainstream dating criterion, mutual curiosity about each other’ culture is a must!

    I am not saying you are condescending in giving these advices, it just appears you are not that related to the overseas Asians that much, so it can be a turn-off..

  13. Bruce
    Bruce January 21, 2014 at 4:13 am | | Reply

    Rdm,

    LOL damn you’re talking like me now!! You know everything I was talking in the past 2 yrs here is true huh? Yes, go to the gym and build some shoulder, trapezius and deltoid Asian men!!!! Make your chest round and juicy man!! I’m in my early 40’s and I still work out like hell like no tomorrow dude. My biceps and triceps are delicious now, rdm !!!! lmao 🙂

  14. Bruce
    Bruce January 21, 2014 at 4:47 am | | Reply

    I strongly agree with RDM here. High caliber women are not attracted to men who look weak. Why I agree with RDM ? My friends and I have been through this situation before where women would approached us and gave us a chance. If you’re not tall, it’s okay but get fit dude. 5 months ago, I had this stare from a tall blondie walking toward me like she was going to eat me. She stopped 2 times looking at me. She didn’t know that I was married :(. I was wearing my tank top walking and then she caught me by surprise !! surprise surprise lol !! I’m married in a committed relationship so I have no intention of chasing women. Yes having the body ( physique) will help a lot and I’m serious. You have to be talkative ,too. In the past, I took tons of friends to the gym and this was like 15-17 yrs ago. I don’t expect you guys to curl 60 lbs dumbbell like me but at least look fit a little bit man. Right now.. I can assure you that my social skills are superb. I’m telling you Asian guys here that women want to be seen with men that will look good and compatible with them. Please give the woman the best sex she can imagine. Don’t be too soft and weak dude. Be aggressive when she wants it!! Slap her butt now!!!

  15. Chen gang
    Chen gang January 21, 2014 at 4:58 am | | Reply

    @bruce,

    “High caliber” women, seriously?

  16. Bruce
    Bruce January 21, 2014 at 6:13 am | | Reply

    Chen gang,

    Just any women in general! At least you have something to offer when you have a fit body. People are visual okay.

  17. Rdm
    Rdm January 21, 2014 at 7:48 am | | Reply

    @Luc and @Chen Gang,

    It’s good to have a good conversation without personal insult.

    I understand both of your approach towards relationships, especially with western women. Different people have different ways of seeing things which is perfectly fine with me. The pointers I listed are not meant as a “bible” to memorize and chase western girls. Those are just a few factors that we Asian men could easily overcome if we have enough motivation and dedication. I’d also like to clarify that those pointers are also not meant as a how to get into Western women pants.

    1. Workout
    Here I’d like to give thumbs up to Bruce that ever after marriage, he’s still hitting the gym. Kudos!
    The fact that a person hitting the gym and building the muscle in the prime age seems “unnecessary” activity usually harbored by many Asian family. It may be due to family economy, the person being the breadwinner of the family, time constraint and such. I totally understand. My mom used to tell me “kay po” in hokkien. I don’t know how to spell that in Mandarin. But my dad used to work out when he was in his twenties. Working in very younger age is not recommended. Only after you hit the puberty, it’s a great time to start building up your muscles and body.

    – Working out does not always mean to build like Arnold Schwarzenegger. It is trying to stay healthy and fit.

    Since Asian has been economically devastated, it’s understandable that majority of the population will always prioritize the survival skills. But since we’re talking about interracial relationship, I just wanted to chime in my opinion that we Asian men, including Luc and Chen Gang, or whoever they are, should hit the gym at least. It’s not getting into girls pants. It’s good for your body and stay fit. Does it help when you chase girls and flirt with them? Of course, they do. But it’s not priority, of course.

    I also don’t want to prioritize “workout program” to the extent that it will disrupt your relationship, family plans, household chores and such. You have to adjust to fit your schedule.

    Here’s the one perspective, pardon me to bring up from the sexual aspect.

    For men, don’t we want our sexual partner or life partner sometimes entertain us with their sexy lingerie and horny appearance on the bed? Yes, I’m not joking. All men would appreciate that if their women every now and then understand what we want. Of course, do we always want to or need to remind our partners to do that? Of course not. We would appreciate that. But it would be a turn-off to remind every time and we’re not in a relationship to do the porn business.

    Now let’s turn our head to Men. Don’t any women of any ethnicity want their men to be muscular at least? Of course they do. But do they always nag their men to go to gym and build up their muscle? Do they always complain they want muscular Men? Of course not. They won’t. They won’t kick out their men out of the door to do push-up. But at least they will appreciate if their men at least build up the muscle to look good. I’m not saying they want Arnold. I’m pointing out if men are really skinny, it’s less likely to get attention in the first stage.

    So in both of these situation, men and women will appreciate if their partners can understand what they want.

    Here’s my experience I’d like to share. That’s my experience. You all can take as a grain of salt. My current girlfriend secretly admitted that she likes the fact that I work out. I’ve been working out during the past 7 years. Do I look like Arnold? No. I’m just trying to stay fit and healthy.

  18. Rdm
    Rdm January 21, 2014 at 7:48 am | | Reply

    Another thing I’d like to mention is

    Since I’m not very good at Mandarin (still learning), I can’t reach out to so many Chinese via many forums. But whenever I can, I did with my relative ability of Mandarin.

    My suggestion on personal hygiene is not coming from moral high ground. I do wish I could tell face to face. But you all will realize that how awkward it would be if I bring up that hygienic measure to my friend face. I’m like

    Rdm: “Hey, you should floss your teeth.”
    Friend: “Why? Do I smell?”

    Rdm: “Nope, I’m just suggesting if you do that, you keep your teeth clean and healthy.”
    Friend: silence

    And everytime we go out, it’d be awkward to speak. He would think I was being rude to bring that up to his face.

    But here, the medium of communication in internet with different nickname helps actually. You may find my suggestion pedantic and standing on moral high ground, but when you go to bed tonight, and you go to the bathroom and look in the mirror, you might probably remember from what you read from the internet and try for yourself. Or maybe, you’re already aware of the hygienic measure, and you can pass on the knowledge to your children.

    Unless somebody go to dentist, it’s very very difficult to bring up those issues to their face. Maybe they might also find my weakness and general bad thing. And if I come across online, I try to reflect on myself, if (a big IF), they were talking about me, would I be the one in their description? And I reflect, I observe, and correct myself.

    By the way, THAT walking style “gait”, that was actually passed on by my father, for that I will always appreciate my father’s observation.

    That’s for now.

  19. Bruce
    Bruce January 21, 2014 at 8:30 am | | Reply

    RDM,

    I will find time for working out. Normally I work out during night time after my job. Most of the time you won’t see result so you give up. I focus on almost every body parts. Most of my friends quit working out after marriage ;however, I still can find time to work out. It’s a stress reliever for me anyway. RDM, email me at [email protected] .

    I’m serious here please work out if you want to attract women in general. Men check out a woman’s body when she walks by so do women. Women do the same, too. You will look way better with short sleeve shirts. You will have more confidence and it’s out of this world. I promise you that you will get a woman or a western woman. Be interesting and unique please.

  20. Manny
    Manny January 21, 2014 at 9:18 am | | Reply

    Hi Peeps. I love this topic as I enjoy seeing the scenario of Western men who can so easily corral the Asian girls. This is one of the best post by Jocelyn to date as all of the prior postings were about AM/WW. I guess being a White boy in Asia certainly pays dividends. Just exactly why this is the case is still open to debate. I think it is because the East is all too often looking to the West as the leaders because of our advances in technology, wealth, beauty standards, etc. Perhaps the East has been brainwashed to think that the West is the standard to follow and this is the reason why Western white men can so easily corral the young pretty Asian girl.

    But I do love the idea that an old, bald and fat Western white man can still have some ability to have a decent girl in Asia to validate our ego. I am in agreement that many elderly white men in the U.S. have no hope in hell to get himself a decent girl as I have seen many who are lonely after their divorce. I am glad that there is a place like China and Asia where they have a dating chance at getting themselves a decent girl. Perhpas one day when I am old, bald and fat living the lonely life I can go to places like China and score on those young pretty Asian felines.

    I read the above discussions which suggest that many commentators resent the elderly White man for having the extraordinary ability to get himself a young pretty Asian girl. Why shoud you all be so resentful us White boys for our natural abilities? Don’t blame us, but blame nature. If the Asian male can take better care of themselves like RDM suggests (eg. exercise to have a good physique, dress better, etc.) I am certain the Asian male’s chances will substantially improve to pick-up girls of any race.

    1. Rdm
      Rdm January 22, 2014 at 2:12 am | | Reply

      Would you look up “non sequitur”?

    2. suri
      suri February 13, 2014 at 4:56 am | | Reply

      Dude,haven’t you seen what happened to Rupert Murdoch?
      I have to say almost every marriages I’ve seen between older western men and younger asian women, a large of percentage of these women are screwing around with younger lovers..

  21. Sveta
    Sveta January 21, 2014 at 10:10 am | | Reply

    All I will mention is that the issue is something not a lot of people will want to touch with a twenty foot pole. I often feel that when it comes to dating inter-racially, Asian men have to climb Mount Everest: not a lot of women will be open to dating Asian men who are first generation Americans and who aren’t familiar with culture, then of course the oh so annoying stereotypes that I hear more and more of about small members from just about even Asian men themselves! And of course majority of parents of Asian men will not approve of their dating choices.

    Coming from Russia, I am sympathetic to women who live in third world countries and understand why they do what they do; in some cases these pretty women might end up using white men for money or for other reasons. I read a book titled A Weak American in Ukraine where the guy mentions details about Russian women who use American men for money then dump them. Not all do it, but there’s a good chance that some do it.

  22. Laura
    Laura January 21, 2014 at 11:11 am | | Reply

    I was going to leave a feedback but then saw Manny’s comment, and once again made me think… “Why no one is moderating him?” . Every time I see a comment from him I just close the articles…

    That took away all my willingness to continue writing.

  23. Shanghai Ronin
    Shanghai Ronin January 21, 2014 at 11:55 am | | Reply

    Manny’s comment is inspirational; I’m going to become an old, white cougar woman that goes to Asia in search of young, fresh meat. Using my wealth and power I’ll reel in a beautiful 24 year old Thai boy when I’m in my late 50s. Gotta shift the standard.

    And actually, I think white men take awful care of themselves. Why in this post are white guys described as tall and ripped and ready to fight a bear? Most of the men I know in the USA are overweight and average in height. The LBH I see in China are usually near bald and equipped with a beer gut. In comparison to the typical Japanese man, a white guy looks near homeless. Chinese men usually aren’t as fashioanble or dress-conscious as the Japanese (sorry, really going heavy on the stereotypes with this comment), but they still age better than the typical white man, which is worth more in the longrun.

    Honestly, the majority of Chinese women that go for the LBH are looking for status and money. Japanese women aren’t really interested in money, but usually like the appeal of dating a foreigner (aka white guy) for the rise in status. A white guy is like having a gucci bag–it makes you special and makes your friends oo and ahh. Surprisingly, a lot of my Chinese/Japanese friends I talk to are also obssesed with having a half child, which may be another factor.

    If you reel in a woman based on looks alone (whether you’re white or Asian or whatever), you’re going to have a terrible relationship. Of course, physical appearances matter, but it’s not the deciding factor. The deciding factor is confidence. A man without confidence is just… not attractive. Period.

    In the west, the man usually asks a woman out. Asian men might feel intimidated or shy to ask out a foreign woman, so unless you’re in a room with an aggressive white woman that is crazy about Asian guys, you’re not going to get anywhere. Asian men have to make the first move and do it with confidence if they want to snag a white (or any other race) girl.

    Here in China, if a young Chinese woman were to be asked out by a foreigner (LBH or not) she would be quite flattered and probably take him up on his offer (but surprisingly, I noticed the majority of Chinese women in Shanghai can pick out the LBH and swat them away ASAP). The opposite, a Chinese guy asking out a white girl, almost never happens. I think Chinese men are intimidated or just plain don’t want to deal with the trouble that comes with dating a foreigner. The cultural and language barriers, the family issues that are bound to come up, the possibility of moving to another country–I think men aren’t as flexible in this area when it comes to women, so it’s quite a lot to consider.

  24. Jenna Cody
    Jenna Cody January 21, 2014 at 12:02 pm | | Reply

    IC – are you being sarcastic or satirical?

    Because while I would not say those things to such an extreme about Chinese culture or *any* culture (certainly there is NO culture in the world where every woman cares only about looking good or all people have a hard time admitting blame), if they are true for any culture it is Chinese, not “Western” culture.

    I’ll avoid the annoying, overused word “face” here and stick to two things I’ve noticed:

    1.) In China I definitely noticed that people were less likely to admit their mistakes. I later realized it wasn’t so much refusing to acknowledge them as it was a reaction in the moment: in the USA if I made a mistake at work, I’d be expected to acknowledge it, apologize and if possible, propose a solution. All would be forgiven (unless it was a huge mistake!). If I dodged blame, refused to acknowledge or apologize or got passive-aggressive about it, that would be seen as a character flaw that could get me fired.

    In China, if you make a mistake at work, the common thing to do is a.) pretend it didn’t happen; b.) get very passive and try to avoid assigning blame to anyone (“mistakes were made”); c.) not apologize, or even really respond if called out. (“We need to talk about this report, there are lots of flaws in the data.” “Mm.” “The fact that it was not done correctly the first time is wasting a lot of company time and money.” “Mm.”)

    It took me time to realize that it wasn’t that the person “refused to admit a mistake”, but that they showed it differently – they would not apologize, but wouldn’t make the mistake again. It’s not like people were unaware of their shortcomings, but to apologize would give the entire office incentive to gossip about you and ‘blame’ you (“oh, I hear Xiao Zhang made a MISTAKE on his report! ooooh”) whereas apologizing in the USA usually (usually!) means things are forgiven and forgotten (our malicious office gossip takes other forms, haha).

    2.) If anything, Chinese women face more pressure, and are more interested in, looking good (they’re more interested in looks not because they’re inherently shallow but because society forces them to be). In China I encountered a lot of sexist beliefs about how men’s value came from money, power and accomplishment and women’s value came from their looks – how good they were at being ornaments. This understandably affected a lot of women.

    So, IC, unless you’re being sarcastic, you’ve got it all backwards.

  25. AntiSocialDarwinism
    AntiSocialDarwinism January 21, 2014 at 12:59 pm | | Reply

    @shanghai ronin,

    Totally a disaster.

    ——
    “Manny’s comment is inspirational; I’m going to become an old, white cougar woman that goes to Asia in search of young, fresh meat. Using my wealth and power I’ll reel in a beautiful 24 year old Thai boy when I’m in my late 50s. Gotta shift the standard.”

    What Manny was talking about is **animal mating** and **animal survival in the wild**, not human relationships. How could you reach the conclusion that is “inspirational”?

    ——
    “Honestly, the majority of Chinese women that go for the LBH are looking for status and money. ”

    I am really looking forward to seeing the research data that backs your claim, did you do the research yourself, or can you post the link to statistics? who else claimed that the “majority” of Chinese women that go for the LBH are looking for money? How many?

    ——
    “I think Chinese men are intimidated or just plain don’t want to deal with the trouble that comes with dating a foreigner. The cultural and language barriers, the family issues that are bound to come up, the possibility of moving to another country”

    Unfortunately, none of your listed items applies to me(nor do they apply to many others), a “plain” Mainland born working class Chinese, only starting learning English at the age of 14 and went to US at 25. Many Americans I met are surprised that I quote, “you have the best ‘English'(not American) accent I have ever heard in years, where did you get that?” and some Scotsmen are flabbergasted by saying that they think I am the one who knows much more about what’s happening in England and Scotland than anyone else they know outside Europe. The point is, many Chinese expats(men, esp.) are hardworking and they are brave and eager to embrace the world, including asking white girls out. Please give up your stereotypical ideas and stop condescending with vapid comments. Please do not reserve your reasoning in a discussion.

  26. starfish
    starfish January 21, 2014 at 1:47 pm | | Reply

    Hi Jocelyn: love your blog. I think the reason you feel this topic is icky is because in your heart you know the criticisms of white men dating only asian women are catty and unfair. The heart wants what the heart wants, leave them alone.

  27. Shanghai Ronin
    Shanghai Ronin January 21, 2014 at 1:58 pm | | Reply

    Now I regret posting on this really nasty, touchy topic. I’ll make this my last comment.

    I was being sarcastic about Manny’s comment. I think his entire comment is atrocious and should be deleted. I’m not going to find a young 24 Thai boy when I’m 50, rest assured.
    ——
    “Honestly, the majority of Chinese women that go for the LBH are looking for status and money. ”

    I don’t have the research or data to back this up, but my humble opinion is that most Chinese women are looking for financial stability when searching for a partner (whether the partner is white or Chinese). That’s where the house and car requirements for most Chinese women come from. I think Chinese women might feel this sense of financial stability with a foreign man more easily than with a typical Chinese one (I think some comment above stated that a foreign English teacher here makes double than a regular Chinese worker. This, in a way, is financial stability).

    Of course not all Chinese women are like that, but I would like to *guess* the majority of Chinese women put a strong emphasis on financial stability (from my own personal experiences in Shanghai). I know a ton of great Chinese women, some whom are my best friends, that don’t need money or status in a man. They just want love. But I have met more Chinese women that tell me what monthly salary they require from a man before they even consider dating him.

    ——
    “I think Chinese men are intimidated or just plain don’t want to deal with the trouble that comes with dating a foreigner. The cultural and language barriers, the family issues that are bound to come up, the possibility of moving to another country”

    I dated a Chinese man that spoke perfect English and Japanese (I speak Japanese and Chinese) and every now and then we still had some issues communicating on a linguistic basis (especially when it comes to humor). Although I have lived in China for a few years and he was quite up to date with news in the USA and EU, we still had culture clashes occur. His mother didn’t like me, and that also caused a lot of problems. I’m just saying, *international relationships* (Chinese or not) take quite a lot of work, patience, and understanding and they’re not for everyone. I’m sorry if there was a misunderstanding.

    I have met a slew of Chinese people that have better English than me, and they’ve never even been to the USA (or left China). They know more about US governmental policies and the EU financial crisis than most of my friends back home. I think Chinese expats are amazing, hardworking, and brave—which is why I dated one, and continue to do so! I’m just saying the majority of Chinese men, the ones that don’t speak amazing English or are completely disinterested in international happenings, are probably not going to muster up the courage to ask out a foreign girl.

    I have a number of white girlfriends that like Asian guys, and we always have to be the first to make a move or nothing gets done (here in China, anyway). I’m not saying Chinese guys are wimps that lack confidence, I’m saying—if you want to date a foreigner, get some guts and ask her out!

    I apologize if I offended you or anyone and… I’m going to stop with the comments! This topic is far too controversial.

  28. Jenna Cody
    Jenna Cody January 21, 2014 at 2:33 pm | | Reply

    Starfish – I’m not sure I’d say the criticisms are always unfair. I do think the majority of WM/AF couples are ‘genuine’ in that they just like each other, or love each other, a lot and want to be together as normal people too.

    But it’s not unfair to say sometimes that’s not how it works, and sometimes there are ulterior motives that don’t originate from…ahem…the heart. A little lower down, whether that’s another body part, or the wallet. But then that is their business, I find it easier and smarter to just not get involved. People with similar motives find each other. As long as there’s no exploitation involved (unfortunately, sometimes there *is* exploitation involved – sex tourism IS exploitation).

    The only thing you can do is not assume anything about any individual and take each person as they come, and judge them as individuals.

  29. Jenna Cody
    Jenna Cody January 21, 2014 at 2:36 pm | | Reply

    But then people of the same race use each other too, or people from different countries – that’s not restricted to WM/AF couples.

    What makes this issue thorny is that racialization – ‘you’re hot because you’re Asian’ rather than “I like you and you are Asian (but those two things aren’t necessarily related)” – and fetishization DO exist and a lot of the guys who do that also have a chip on their shoulder about Western women (usually that we’re not thin/sweet/feminine enough) that is hateful and also racist.

    If it were just about people using each other, that wouldn’t mean much – it happens in all sorts of relationships.

  30. anonymous
    anonymous January 22, 2014 at 1:50 am | | Reply

    Why am I not surprised to see RDM and Bruce tooting their own god damned horns again on a virtual page.

    “Bro you gotta curl 60lbs like me and speak perfect English like me and white pussies come chasing at me”
    Please do tell, I would love to be like you someday with your condescending attitude and mid life crisis

  31. Rdm
    Rdm January 22, 2014 at 2:11 am | | Reply

    ^^^
    Do explain where did I toot Bruce?

    If possible, I’d like to shine my gold-plattered god damned horns.

  32. chen gang
    chen gang January 22, 2014 at 2:19 am | | Reply

    @Bruce,

    Even with all your big mussels, why do I sense the insecurity of a 20 year-old?

  33. anonymous
    anonymous January 22, 2014 at 2:28 am | | Reply

    So not only you’re condescending, your reading comprehension is about as skillful as my makeup skill/
    I said tooth your own horns. Had I said you guys toot each other’s , then it would be you tooting Bruce’s (though from the sound of it, you two should just get a room and massage each other’s ego with whatever reproductive organs you have)
    Yet here you are, tell FOBs to speak perfect english…. LOL the irony

  34. Rdm
    Rdm January 22, 2014 at 4:13 am | | Reply

    ^^^

    “Yet here you are, tell FOBs to speak perfect english…. LOL the irony”

    Do explain where did I exactly tell FOBs to speak perfect English?

    Remember, you still haven’t answered my first question of “tooting Bruce’s horn or whatever goddamn horn”.

  35. Bruce
    Bruce January 22, 2014 at 6:45 am | | Reply

    Rdm , ignore them. They are hopeless! If We ever are going to meet in person with these people here I bet you they will make you laugh like hell. They have to change themselves. We can’t persuade them. I don’t care anyway. I have a woman already but most of you guys are single here.

  36. Bruce
    Bruce January 22, 2014 at 7:40 am | | Reply

    Chen gang,

    Do i sound like I’m in my 20’s? Of course because i don’t let myself
    Grow up. That’s the secret of being young. You can’t just judge on what I or others write here. If you know me in person I’ll blow your mind away. I’m a consultant. Come on man I can’t be serious here. I just like to comment but i won’t take anybody serious here.

  37. Constance - Foreign Sanctuary
    Constance - Foreign Sanctuary January 22, 2014 at 11:32 am | | Reply

    This has been a conversation my western friends and I have had on countless occasions in Taiwan. You see this guy which some of my friends who ‘not touch with a ten foot pole’ (their words, not mine) with this beautiful Taiwanese woman. But I think categorizing all foreign men in the same group is completing wrong. I have male foreign friends who, like me, truly fell in love with their Taiwanese partner for the right reasons.

    But, there are those, those few that make me sick to my stomach. I once worked with a guy who was known for his famous, degrading, make ‘you want to punch him in the face’ (this time me and my friends) quote, ‘Taiwan xiaojie, hen hao chi’! meaning unmarried women in Taiwan are good to eat. (In Taiwan, ‘xiaojie’ means ‘miss. ‘ I know in China, it means something completely different). He gives all guys, not just western ones, a bad name!

    1. Constance - Foreign Sanctuary
      Constance - Foreign Sanctuary January 22, 2014 at 11:34 am | | Reply

      oops..it should read

      would ‘not touch with a ten foot pole..’

  38. Jenna Cody
    Jenna Cody January 22, 2014 at 11:49 am | | Reply

    I’m with Constance. It’s not fair at all to judge all Western men – or any man you don’t know personally – as being a ‘loser’ (I made the mistake of being in a very bad sort and doing that once and lost a friend, who was offended by that, over it. I actually don’t miss the friend, surprisingly, but I do regret it because it wasn’t right. I was completely in the wrong. Learned my lesson about not judging, even when I’m in a bad place).

    But there ARE losers out there. I also live in Taiwan, and I used to work with a guy who had (still has? dunno) a local girlfriend. But he would go out to bars and hook up with other random women, often after buying them lots of drinks. Sometimes they were barely standing. He didn’t think it was a big deal to cheat on his girlfriend because “Asian girls are hot, how can I resist?” Ugh. He told someone I know that he is specifically here because it’s easy to sleep with a lot of women (which…I don’t know why. I don’t think Taiwanese women are ‘easier’ than American women or anything of the sort. I just don’t understand why that’s the case) and that Asian women are not only ‘hot’ (because they’re Asian) but that they also like him more (which – WHY?). UGGGHHHH.

    He’s a loser through and through and it has nothing to do with interracial relationships. He’s just a loser. The only reason to discuss it in terms of race is that he racializes the women he dates and sleeps with (who are not the same women). Calling him a loser isn’t racist – his actions – Asian fetishism at its worst – are what’s racist.

  39. Cheng Yong
    Cheng Yong January 22, 2014 at 3:57 pm | | Reply

    Does any one watch the lastest episodes of “the two broke girls”? Carolina Channing was trying to date a guy in a bar but got stood up. Max then tried to comfort her by making a deal with a random guy who was into asian gals only, Max was joking about it” who is not into asian chicks? expcept asian guys…” Thats reflecting some sort of reality in this pouplar shows in sates right? even pop drama like this show the facts like that in sarcastic way, but not all negative. just make people aware that maybe its time to change the trends.

    as I said before, AMWF still are rare compare with other cross culture relationships, not diss on west countries, but guys from west do get promoted for their sex drive and egos by cultures and medias while in China boys still are reviewed as the “ridge beam” of entire of families’ furture, due to 90% of Chinese househelds are still poor and their living standards are so much below average in the west. they got less incomes. and small apartment buildings, most of them – guys are still struggling for better living conditions nowdays, other facts are Chinese guys has been taught so much tranditional rules by their families or schools, which means in mainstream medias here, sex is senstive topic should avoid to discuss in public, and it could get humalting by public opinions, most people trandionally married first then had sex as the first time in their entire of lives, how these grew men in China, can make appealing to those attractive/ strange women, and goes: wanna date or like wanna sex???…. meantime. in west; guys who are married or have their gfs, are having more spare time than Chinese, to plan the romantic trips or vacations for their love ones. so for my view point, China still need nearly decades to devloping on personal wellbeings then catching up west nations. once personal economics improves to higher level, we could culturally be more opened and accepted; so its about the money for now. beacuse money is in today’s chinese views as what it can bring everything you need as being a successful man. its shallow, but it seemed be the main stream views.

    1. Luc
      Luc January 22, 2014 at 11:24 pm | | Reply

      @Cheng Yong,

      “Thats reflecting some sort of reality in this pouplar shows in sates right? even pop drama like this show the facts like that in sarcastic way, but not all negative. ”

      The soap shows nothing closer to”facts”, it reflects “racism” and “prejudices”. What those irresponsible media are doing is reinforcing racist views in a wider population rather than educating them with sciences and facts. It’s an abuse of social power.

      Ethic minorities shall fight rather than quote those racist(however minutely) dramas and redistribute those remarks to cause further detrimental effects.

      Isn’t it the reason that we celebrate MLK Day on Monday?

  40. SBC
    SBC January 22, 2014 at 8:12 pm | | Reply

    Yes it is an icky topic because it anthromorphizes ALL races involved and not involved. Sadly, people think that the old creepy white geezers with powerless dirt poor thai prostitutes are the only odd category driving this ickyness.

    Unfortunately, its a reflection of how we stereyotype, categorize and dumb down something as nuanced as love. I am sorry to admit that MOST of the times I see a white man/ asian woman couple, I find it suspicious. You know why? MANY asian people (east asian) I have spoken to, admit that they prefer white, think they are better and have higher status. Its makes sense then that they would try to find partners in this “better” group or race. This applies btw, to BOTH men and women.

    On the other hand, with white men there is an invasion of Japanese porn industry which propogates fetishes and stereyotypes. One I have heard quote frequently, and from “educated” non slimy young men, mind you; is that asian women are ususlly slim and pretty.

    Now focus on asian women. ALL my east asian friends have terribly body issues. They are thin and constantly on diet (even though they obviously have the metabolism to not be), wear foundation that is at least 3 shades lighter than their skin tone (which makes them look comical and not pretty in my eyes) and NEVER leave home without some make up on. A lot of them dont mind witholding their opinion (most because its cultural, which is fine; but I have seen INTELLIGENT women dumb themselves down so that their “men” dont feel threatened). And us other women are somehow supposed to idolize this obsession with physical beauty and perpetual oppression if we want to land that “white prince in shining armor”?

    The worst part is ridiculous stereyotypes. White women are too independant and get fat, black women are loud, hispanic women are ___ and asian women are slim and ghostly pale and lack any backbone whatsoever. White men are creepers and entitled, asian men arent manly enough and black men are —…. From where I see it… WM/AF brings out horrible sterotypes that oppress ALL races, ironically. There OBVIOUSLY are normal WM/AF couples. But unfortunately, MOST that I have met, though dont fall into the old creeper/thai prostitute category; are examples of men or women who harbor such stereotypes. Its one of the things that sickens me about IR.

    Of course there are ignorant people dating other races in all combinations of races. I just think there are a LOT of WM/AF couples and so a greater proportion of such ignorant idiots in this category. Its these people that cause trouble for the legitimate WM/AF couples. Not the sarong girls and old guys.

  41. chen gang
    chen gang January 23, 2014 at 2:05 am | | Reply

    about this “loser white male with pretty Asian women” phenomenon, i think it is totally natural. It would be weird if it doesn’t exist. it is the reflection of the recent 100~200 years of Western domination in culture, economics, technology, etc. It is human nature to want to associate with the “winning team.”

  42. David
    David January 23, 2014 at 2:52 am | | Reply

    With very few exceptions mostly confined to this board and the Texan in Tokyo board, most white women are not interested in dating outside their race and despite what IC says, it is just the opposite. A Chinese guy rejected by a white woman will loose face with his buddies and even family…they will say that he went after a white “girl” and look what it got him. A few years ago in a prosperous Asian country, some people set up a white woman from Tennessee, USA with a local guy…a son of a Chinese multi-millionaire. They were to meet at a pricy revolving restaurant…however when she saw him she literally ran from the restaurant, her face flush with fright like she just saw a ghost…the guy lost face and has not dated anyone since.

    1. Luc
      Luc January 23, 2014 at 3:09 am | | Reply

      @David,

      A setup of a white girl meeting a son of Chinese multimillionaire, do you think it is an illustrative example of AMWF dating? I don’t think it can say anything about a general audience.

  43. David
    David January 23, 2014 at 3:13 am | | Reply

    @Luc:

    No. Loosing face is more relevant in the Asian culture than in the western culture.

  44. Fred
    Fred January 23, 2014 at 5:33 am | | Reply

    Hi J.E. Thanks for the great post about the LBH.

    @ everyone above. I am not convinced that we as human beings should label a White man a “loser back home” merely because he is not able to secure good employment and cannot get himself a decent lady to date in his home country but then suddenly is able to have both in China. Firstly, calling someone a “loser back home” denigrates human beings and this is just not right to call someone this hurtful name. Secondly, is it really bad to call someone a loser for going to greener pasture for better opportunities? If we label a White man as a “LBH” for going to China to get a job and have a pretty young girl by his side, then the same can said for many Chinese who immigrated to places like Canada, USA, Australia etc. for better opportunities. After all, my family immigrated from H.K. and came to N. America for greater opportunities, but yet there is no general consensus that we Chinese are called losers back home for getting a better job in a foreign country and for marrying someone in their newly adopted country. But yet if a White man goes to China to seek greater opportunities then he is called a Loser Back Home. This is simply and plainly wrong! This is a double standard. I and my 2 siblings were born in H.K., immigrated to N. American, later held jobs here, and married White folks (my sister married a White man and I and my bro married White girls), but yet no one called us” losers back home” for leaving H.K. So, why should White folks who left the U.S., Britain, etc. to seek greater opportunities be called LBH? I think that we must stop calling people hurtful names and look at facts objectively and fairly to be true to ourselves and to others.

    I will recount a brief anecdote for you all. I know of a White man (a close friend of mine) named Peter who is now 52 divorced without children. After his divorce with his wife in the U.S. in 2007-08, he was not able to secure any decent employment during this horrible recession. For several years, he lived meagerly and had only sporadic employment and had difficulties making ends meet. He was borderline homeless. He was not able to get any decent date with any woman whatsoever despite many attempts post divorce in the U.S. In early 2012, he had no choice but to seek employment in China. So he found a Chinese agency advertising teaching jobs in China with long term employment and so he took the opportunity. He moved to Shenzhen in early 2012 to teach English to young students. While in Shenzhen, the school/agency gave him an apartment to live in; he had steady employment; the salary was great in comparison to the locals; he quickly within 1 or 2 months after his arrival met and started dating a young 23 year old Chinese girl (girl # 1). Later he met and started dating another young Chinese girl in her 30’s (girl # 2). He admitted that he could not believe his luck beyond his wildest dream (ie., a steady employment with a good salary and several young pretty Chinese girls at the same time). He admitted that he was so easily able to overcome the difficulties attendant to living and being in the U.S. by having both (girls and good salary) in China. As you can see, this is an amazing story of a person who overcame difficulties and reached successes. How can he be a loser for fixing both his economic and dating difficulties? He should be rewarded and commended for his greatness and not be given condemnation with the LBH label. So, the moral of story is that if you try hard and go and seek opportunities you will succeed. So, stop calling guys like Peter a loser when they are really winners!

    Fred

    1. Lucas
      Lucas September 2, 2015 at 9:40 pm | | Reply

      Great post! No one should be called bad names based on their race, birthplace or choices or life.
      The sad reality is that Asian countries, and especially China, have a lot-hate relationship with White people and their countries.
      They worship everything from the West and White people themselves because their countries are more developed and better places to live in overall.
      At the same time they hardly understand why someone would come to a poorer, less developed country.
      In many Chinese minds everything in the US is great, everyone makes 100k per year, I have even heard some Chinese talking about American “universal free healthcare” LOL.
      Having a cultural interest in other countries or looking for greater opportunities in rapidly developing markets are not reasons good enough in Chinese minds to leave first world Western countries.
      So yeah, it’s a weird mix of inferiority complex toward White people and Western countries, and looking down on people who don’t choose to live in the most-developed-highest-GDP-per-capita place.
      I have also noticed that it’s mostly single unmarried Chinese men with low paying jobs who call out on Laowai guy Chinese girl couples.
      My Chinese friends who are married and/or successful are very happy to see our cross cultural couple with my wife.
      Not surprising from local men to be angry at cross cultural couples when there is a massive gender gap preventing them from finding a partner among their own kind.
      I wouldn’t call these men losers, but it’s definitely the men at the bottom of the social ladder in China who have a problem with Chinese women dating/marrying Foreigners.

  45. Bruce
    Bruce January 23, 2014 at 6:01 am | | Reply

    Fred made a great point!! Different countries have different standards on attracting the opposite sex. Freaking an old Chinese man from America can get a young Chinese girl in China ,too. If you as an Asian man who doesn’t have the edge to attract women, you have to try something new. I know I know all you guys just sit there on your ass criticizing about others while you fail on getting hooked up with women. Your fashion and body suck? Listen up and change it!! If we are all meeting in person, I’m going to laugh my ass off I’m telling you . This will be very funny for me. Good entertainment for me.

  46. David
    David January 23, 2014 at 6:11 am | | Reply

    @Fred..

    Dont know why white men are loosers when they are the biggest winners….white privilege. Manny spoke about going to Hong Kong and looking for a Chinese woman to marry. Can a Chinese guy do that in Alabama or Mississippi with a local white woman…a oak tree will be ready for him…yes even today.

    1. Luc
      Luc January 23, 2014 at 6:17 am | | Reply

      @David,

      I am sure some Chinese can. By the way, boasting white privileges is equivalent to throwing us back to 1960s, when MLK was fighting.

  47. chen gang
    chen gang January 23, 2014 at 7:16 am | | Reply

    @Bruce,

    I don’t need to meet in person to laugh at you, but I really need to stop, it is not worth it.

  48. Bruce
    Bruce January 23, 2014 at 8:51 am | | Reply

    Chen gang,

    Yes you need to stop :). I could be your good friend haha

  49. Cheng Yong
    Cheng Yong January 23, 2014 at 11:26 am | | Reply

    @Luc:
    First off pardon my English
    second of all;my brian does tell me “don’t say it”
    but I just can’t stop saying it, beacuse those words are poping up from the top of my head to the bottom of my mouth. call me big mouth or whateves.
    actually I think medias in US are pretty smart right now, they do know how to find right attentions, catch up trends, then dump it away, neither what you said, or what I wrote is correct, beacuse what I sense is that: WM/AF is overrated. its time to dump or whateves… so LBH is obviosuly diss on those white guys who dated asian ladies in overseas, and From social meadias or Mass meadias in US started to label this type of white men. Isn’t it sad? beacuse some ingorent people do think, white male can take laides from any other races back then, so why is now, they suddenly are being called “Losers back home” whats going on with current trends.

    Meantime Dear Luc I gotta mention another soap dramas I ctached up online —The Neibours- the show brings me a joy, it described a bunch of Aliens come to the earth and trapped into different Human froms then settle down in Newjersey

    Larry Brid as Alien leader who also is a father with a white man’s Appearance; Jakie; as Alien leader -Larry Brid’s wife took a black woman’s body and they have two sons. one is Riggie– 16years old Asian guy, and Dick 6 years old white boy; and they lived with a human family Waviers. and Riggie is just average asian looking guy, without glasses, and he is dating the oldest daughter in Waviers’ and both family approved it, also Riggie guy have a soual mate is a hot blonde girl who is so popular in school. although she is actually alien took white blonde girls body as well….. they are living in harmony. its wonderful shows, reflects immigrants from different countries, and races come to US and make families. if it is not postive then what?

    also for the show of “the two broke girls” the man who runs the dinner is asian guy, who is perfectly fitting in all sterotypes for being a typical asian. and people who are working in dinner made fun of him, for being small, girly, snobby, unappealing asian guy, but they like him, they were willing to help him, and overcome all these neagtives views in old views. like Max said, “we are all family”
    isn’t it sweet?

    so at least medias in states start to narrow down this issue and helping asian males to rebuilt their image for now, not sure what is next , things could go backward agian, but , at least now its good start.

    just this LBH agian rised up another issue for white guys…….

  50. Bruce
    Bruce January 23, 2014 at 11:52 am | | Reply

    EMILY,

    I think you got our points correct. Some asian men or men in general still
    Don’t get it. When you look fit … you really attract the opposite sex. now i know why some cougars like me lol. The energy that your body radiates really works.

  51. anonymous
    anonymous January 23, 2014 at 12:11 pm | | Reply

    Yes Bruce…you will be laughing at me laughing at how egocentric and yet full of shit you are.

    If you truly are as successful and have a vivacious life as stated, then I would assume you would have no need to go on the internet and list of your achievements.
    Jeez every god damed post from you is either “bro you gotta get huge like me, white broads make themselves be known”
    It’s honestly getting tiresome hearing you and Rdm standing on soapboxes giving moral advices

  52. Bruce
    Bruce January 23, 2014 at 11:31 pm | | Reply

    anonymous,

    I will ignore you. For 5000 yrs , China has not changed on many issues. Your mindset and ours are different. How can I talk to you when we’re opposite ? “If you truly are as successful and have a vivacious life as stated, then I would assume you would have no need to go on the internet and list of your achievements.” —- You’re being naïve again. How can I talk to you when you think like this? Hey buddy! I’m helping Asian men here including you. I don’t think we can ever communicate on anything here seriously because the ways you think are opposite . Anonymous, what is your moral advices to these Asian men here? Tell us and don’t run away from this question man!!!!!!!!!!

  53. Manny
    Manny January 25, 2014 at 7:57 am | | Reply

    Hi Guys. Here is a wonderful site about a Western man who went to China and married a Chinese lady. He is not a LBH. So, read and enjoy:

    http://imarriedachineselady.com/

    and

    https://www.createspace.com/3860514

    Manny

  54. Rdm
    Rdm January 26, 2014 at 9:59 am | | Reply

    Hi Guys,

    Here’s the Asian man and Western woman wedding reception.

    Andrea Lowell is not a typical laowai. She’s a model. She’s now studying Biology a UC Berkeley. Her husband is James Kim who is also studying at UC Berkeley.

    http://www.vegasnews.com/17639/host-of-playboy-morning-show-andrea-lowell-and-james-kim-marry-in-vegas-party-at-playboy-club.html

    http://instagram.com/theandrealowell

    Look through the instagram and enjoy.

    Rdm

  55. Allen
    Allen January 27, 2014 at 6:51 am | | Reply

    ^lol, Manny vs Rdm.

    IMO whether or not a Western man who ends up in Asia is a loser has more to do with his attitude towards people, particularly the locals or Asians (both men and women) in general rather than his financial or dating prospects back home.

    For example Anton Casey, LOSER, even though Casey probably could’ve earned a decent living back in England. He is ugly as f—K though, so he wouldn’t be dating a former Miss England.

  56. anonymous
    anonymous January 27, 2014 at 12:35 pm | | Reply

    I help other dudes (Asians or not) in the gym, achieving bigger squats, clean and jerk, snatches, higher vertical, faster 40yd dash.
    I also help my other friends become more confident in their outlooks.
    Is that enough to you? No matter what your answer is, I dont give a damn, but I won’t need to resort to stroking my ego under the pretense of altruism.

  57. Rdm
    Rdm January 28, 2014 at 2:31 am | | Reply

    ^^

    Didn’t answer the question I asked earlier with the accusation spewed out at others for no apparent evidence.

    But did keep accusing me of toothing god-damned horn, me asking FOBs to speak perfect English, but nowhere did I mention any of those self-righteous mantra.

    ——

    “Is that enough to you? No matter what your answer is, I dont give a damn, but I won’t need to resort to stroking my ego under the pretense of altruism.”

    Now came up with hypothetical virtual trainer in the gym, helping squats, clean and jerk, snatches to anybody in the gym. Dude, unless you’re coming with your friends, there’s no way you’re helping people out in the gym. There’s no “unsolicited” trainer in the gym.

    Don’t tell me “I don’t give a damn”. You’re giving tons of sh(i)t on this board, accusing others, not answering my questions and acting under the pretense of self-righteousness.

  58. Rdm
    Rdm January 28, 2014 at 2:31 am | | Reply

    @Allen,

    Yea, in case you miss out in this blog,

    Manny is a southerner from US. He has two younger sisters. His grandfather once fought in WWII in China. He’s now got an Asian girlfriend.

    That’s his background he claimed to be.

    But the reality is under the thin veil of occasional compliment to the blogger herein Jocelyn’s blog, his usual posts always exudes White men and Asian men fetish, subtle denigration of Asian women in general “China doll”, his catchphrase, and how adventurous his grandfather’s orgy was in China during WWII.

    Needless to say, he also offered his younger two sisters for Asian men for senseless bang.

    Manny, is that right? If I’m filling in the void for others who has no idea how saint you are.

  59. Bruce
    Bruce January 28, 2014 at 6:37 am | | Reply

    “If you truly are as successful and have a vivacious life as stated, then I would assume you would have no need to go on the internet and list of your achievements.” You need to put it out there on the internet. Most Asian men don’t know why they fail on attacking women. Hey, I have time and I’m stabled financially so I have time to comment here and I’m freaking MARRIED ,TOO!!!!. I don’t have to be here but I always hear that Asian men always have a hard time attracting women so I’m here to help for free. However, we have a lot of people who want to sabotage what we do here. If you look good physically as an Asian man, you’ll build confidence NATURALLY. At least , you’ll have more advantage over another guy who is not fit. It’s just much much easier if you’re fit and have some muscles . I don’t care if you’re trying to hook up with Latinas , Asian women, white women, or black sistas. You’ll have an upper hand if you’re fit, confident, clean cut and /or muscles. I’ve said it so many times and sometimes I’m tired . Women are very visual and they will show you when they like you. How can you make women come to you when you’re not fit? If they don’t come to you, you have to go to them right? But without the confidence, you won’t approach those women most of the time. Explain to me why you fail single guys!!

  60. Bruce
    Bruce January 28, 2014 at 6:39 am | | Reply

    typo : attacking = attracting 🙂 lol wth..

  61. David
    David January 29, 2014 at 12:39 am | | Reply

    @Rdm

    Manny is the typical epitome of one way street and white privilege. White men go to Asia and look for local women…let an Asian guy try down south what Manny claimed to have done in Hong Kong…he will be hanging from a tree…that is the reality…Texan in Tokyo notwithstanding.

  62. David
    David January 29, 2014 at 12:41 am | | Reply

    Rdm…I think there is a famous Korean American, a University President or someone in that position named James Kim.

  63. David
    David January 29, 2014 at 12:43 am | | Reply

    Allen:

    Anthony Casey is probably a one-way streeter….a man who believes a Brit should have the right to live and work in Singapore, but not the other way around. Plenty of Brits with that mentalitiy…close to 70% perhaps.

  64. A.
    A. January 29, 2014 at 2:36 pm | | Reply

    Hi, I wanted to make a comment after reading all these fun stories 🙂

    I am a native from The Netherlands and live in China some years with my Dutch girlfriend. We both like it here and we have friends, both Chinese and foreigners.

    Most of my foreign friends have Chinese ladies. And some Chinese ladies are maybe into their money what they sometimes tell me, but they don’t care. The Chinese lady can dump him and he can do the same. As long as he and she are happy I am happy too! And to be white in this country is like a black guy in Holland can be very exotic, so people want to try different things. This needs to be considered as well. So it is not always about the money..

    If a black man in Holland has 1000 white girlfriends I never hate on this guy. Why should I?

    There are people who are young and wild so they want to make fun, both men and women. And some start at a later age… So you need to respect that.

    I personally like women, doesnt matter what race, who can speak for themselves and have an own opinion and who support their husband or boyfriend in good and bad. And I am no LBH ( funny words ) because I came for business here and of course my girlfriend knows I look at other girls once a while if a beautiful one passes by, but that doenst mean I want to cheat on her. We are human beings so it completely normal. She does the same. And I will never be angry. It depends on how much you trust each other.

    Ok, have a nice day all 😀

  65. Bruce
    Bruce January 30, 2014 at 7:07 am | | Reply

    Even a black woman working at a church wanted to pick me up. I did nothing but went to vote. She said i smelled so good. My conclusion is she likes my physique.

  66. Fred
    Fred January 30, 2014 at 9:26 am | | Reply

    Hey Bruce my bro. You are quite the stud.

    @ All of you above. Don’t judge the laowai’s too harshly by calling them losers. Please take a look at this video about a Chinese man who cannot find a wife in China:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QdBjXy2Fk

    Fred

  67. Bruce
    Bruce January 30, 2014 at 11:17 am | | Reply

    Fred,

    My brother! !!! I do agree with you that we should not judge on LBH. There is a reason why we fail on getting women. Hey bro, I’m no a stud!! I just have something that those women want in their lives that’s all. Someone who keeps fit in my 40’s but look like in 30’s. I’m friendly, professional, charisma AND honest. Damn what a deadly combination. I don’t have to show you my pics and you still believe me hint hint lol. Haha haha lol. That’s why your my brother !!!!!

  68. Fred
    Fred January 31, 2014 at 1:30 am | | Reply

    @ Bruce my bro. Have you any more stories of your encounters with any girls lately? I recall one more when I was at a party one time many years ago when I was still single. If so, please tell me and then I will tell you mine.

    Fred

  69. Rdm
    Rdm February 1, 2014 at 12:35 am | | Reply

    @Fred,

    You raised a good point. Labeling all White men in Asia “LBH” does not serve as a good starting point to discuss, it could also mean we are using the double standard.

    Before I start, from your anecdote of how 52 year old White men achieved dating scenes in China as overcoming difficulties? That does sound like “Manny”, dude. And your conversation with Bruce also sounds like what “Manny” has done months in this blog too. And besides, it takes years of blogging and reading comments to discern subtleties what message a commenter is trying to convey.

    But giving you the benefits of the doubt,

    What I think is “LBH” here in this case is “Loser” image, not an overachieving aspiring scientists, engineers, doctors, dentists, workers, students going to foreign countries and achieve their dreams.

    Most of the immigrants from Hong Kong, Taiwan, China, Singapore (rarely the case), other countries to US, they DO NOT come to US to have a greater chance of dating scene. They do come here for betterment of their family in the future, to upgrade their education, to improve their lives. Even then, most of the elite in their home country do not migrate to other countries (secret savings, having dual citizenships is another topic), they do well back in their home country. They have money, they have everything. For those who are middle class or lower middle class, try to upgrade their lives through Education, Careers, they devote most of their times in studying and working hard. Why? because they wanted to overcome the difficulties akin to “Lower Middle Class” societal issues. But Remember they overcome their difficulties by at least exerting their PHYSICAL efforts, not simply boat ride to US and got employed and have so many dates.

    When your imaginary Peter 52 years old, can’t get jobs back home, and go to China to teach English and have dated young Chinese girls, this is not “Overcoming Difficulties”, this is called “Enjoying the systems created by centuries of European Colonization”.

    Imagine, a 52 years old Mr. Chen can’t get jobs in China, but went to US to teach Mandarin, and he got tons of White girls (20-35 years old) lining up for dating, if you could imagine that scenario, we could safely say that Peter is not LBH, neither is Mr. Chen. They both achieved difficulties in lives.

    Until then, Mr. Peter in the eyes of at least Rdm here, is “LBH” script engraved in Great Wall of China.

    And besides, as an immigrant from Hong Kong you yourself, touting Mr. Peter’s anecdote as “Here is an AMAZING story”, I can’t wrap my head around your story of “Amazing and Overcoming difficulties”.
    –> Why? Go to my 2nd paragraph in this comment.

    Your sister married to White guy and you and your brother married to White girls, Wow, this is what we call “Globalization and Internalization”. By the way, what profession do you have in US? Teaching Mandarin or Cantonese?

    How about your brother-in-law whom your lovely sister married? Is he an overachieving top-of-the-notch professional or just a typical White guy?

    If you still don’t get it, try to compare yourself, your brother Vs your brother-in-law status.

    Last, quite an AMAZING revelation of an Asian Immigrants from Hong Kong, pitching Mr. Peter story as “successful”.

  70. Fred
    Fred February 1, 2014 at 4:24 am | | Reply

    @ Mr. RDM. Thank you for contributing to the discussion. I am a little perplexed that you compare me to Mr. Manny, but if I happen to sound a little like him, then so be it. But let me tell you that my friend Peter is not a loser or a hypthetical as he is a real person and his name is “Peter.” I am willing to give you his email address (if he will allow me to do so) so that you can communicate with him. You will find that he is not a LBH type of fellow. He is honest, decent and hard working. The fact that he overcame his economic and dating difficulties does not make him a loser merely because he moved to “greener pastures” to achieve success.

    Yes, I am an immigrant from H.K. and you seemed surprised that I am touting his story as amzaing and successful. I think that anytime someone who can overcome the odds and be successful without having to cheat, lie and hurt people is classified in my opinion as a winner. Those Chinese immigrants are also successful as well when they came to the U.S. to better themselves. Yes, some manage to marry White folks like all me, my sister and brother and we are all successful. My brother is a laywer; I am a lawyer; my sister is an engineer. But you seemed to think that a White man teaching English in China is a LBH merely because he cannot get good employment back home and cannot get himself a decent lady in the U.S. Teaching is passing knowledge to people and is empowering them. Having a relationship with someone you love is wonderful. So, I simply do not understand that a white guy can be a LBH.

    Are you a little jealous that some white guy can be successful teaching English in China and are able to get himself a decent woman or two? That does not make sense. Then you compare me to Mr. Manny to devalue my amazing story. What is going on with you? I think that people should respect each other regardless of his profession, regardless of his motive and reasons for moving to greener pastures, and regardless of the type or how many women he choses to date. Please remember, it takes two to do the tango. So, the Chinese lady is equally involved and thus it cannot be the man as the loser and nothing is said about the Chinese woman. If the White man is the loser, then so is the Chinese lady for dating a loser and then this makes her a loser as well. Yet, you do not criticize the Chinese girl.

    Fred

  71. Bruce
    Bruce February 1, 2014 at 4:58 am | | Reply

    Both of you have your points but we also have to criticize the Chinese girls/women ,too. Some Chinese/ Asian women are total losers period!!!

    For example, I’m into fitness and I do work out alot so of course you’ll notice that I work out when I wear my clothes. I’m just saying that if you look good, many people ( aunties, uncles, friends, customers) will notice and they will introduce you to female friends . First of all, you have to make people notice you ( women or men). How do you expect the opposite sex to like you if you have nothing to attract them? Like peacocks… the male ones have very beautiful feathers to attract the females.. maybe I’m going to far with this but you get the idea.

  72. Fred
    Fred February 1, 2014 at 5:53 am | | Reply

    @ Bruce. Thank you for supporting my viewpoint, bro. Yes, I am in agreement that in order to attrack someone of the opposite sex to date, you must have someone good to offer whether it is looks, character, wealth, etc. I am in agreement that making yourself physically attractive such as good attire, physique, etc. is a good start.

    Fred

  73. Rdm
    Rdm February 1, 2014 at 1:38 pm | | Reply

    Fred,

    If you’re really a Fred and have a friend Mr. Peter, it’s alright. I’m not here policing who’s who the comment looks alike.

    ———-
    “Are you a little jealous that some white guy can be successful teaching English in China and are able to get himself a decent woman or two? That does not make sense.”

    Why do you think I’m A LITTLE jealous?

    ———-
    “Then you compare me to Mr. Manny to devalue my amazing story. What is going on with you?”

    For my dealing with friends, relatives, diverse circle of friends (all being Asians or Asian decent; I also have different circles of friends) from the tender age of 17 when puberty hits the sexual interest high until now, when it comes to talking about interracial relationship, I have NEVER EVER come across an Asian/Asian American man regaling how an old White man could score a number of “Decent” asian women in positive tone, let alone their expedition being “Amazing” and “Overcoming difficulties”.

    Am I bashing all White men as “LBH”?
    Go to my very 2nd comment in this blog entry where I talk about my friend and his korean girlfriend anecdote.

    But if you’re a White guy, I can vicariously sense that the story would be “AMAZING” category in your booklist.

    ———-
    “I think that people should respect each other regardless of his profession, regardless of his motive and reasons for moving to greener pastures, and regardless of the type or how many women he choses to date. Please remember, it takes two to do the tango. ”

    I agree that we should give respect to each other. Just because I label Mr. Peter as LBH does not mean that I’m giving a green eye every time I come across interracial couples. My opinion of Mr. LBH Peter does not affect his life in China nor his dating with Chinese girls in this case. I also agree that it takes two to tango. In other blogs, I have voiced my opinion on Asian women as well, especially who ditched Asian cultures, Asian men as patriarchy and later give “I only date White guys” attitude.

    So you’d ask Why am I doing all these labeling stuff to your friendly Mr. Peter as LBH? Since I have mentioned clearly in my previous comment, LBH stands for “loser back home”. “Loser” image does not represent “deranged, retarded, douchebags”, rather it conveys the idea that “A person cannot succeed or walk his way through in a system where a set of rules is imposed upon.” Of course you can google “loser” definition on your own. When you tag loser with “Back Home”, it’s pretty clear what it wants to describe in full term.

    Now, let’s see.

    A Chinese college student wait-listed or rejected from Tsinghua University got accepted at Columbia University in US. A Singaporean rejected from NUS for medical study was finally accepted at Stanford University in US. University rankings do not matter here. Home grown top-notched university always have space limitation where the supply outmatches the demand.

    An aspiring engineer from Hong Kong; dwelling in a tiny apartment in a high-rise building with a ridiculously high rent with his relatively stable income, goes to US for BETTER payment and hopefully better opportunity (albeit it’s ever more shrinking in US).

    VS

    Mr. Peter from US who can’t get job in US with his astounding display of knowledge in English language, aside from that, we know nothing of his particular expertise, [I can teach English pretty well, Subject-Verb(intransitive or transitive)-Object (if the verb is transitive), and such] goes to China to teach the language he has been blessed with ever since he was born, and above all, unexpectedly he’s got lucky with pretty decent girls in China, not once, it’s TWICE.

    Tell me honestly if you see the above picture, who is really the loser here? of course “back home”, not in greener pasture.

    Besides, “Loser” and “Nice or Friendly” is not mutually exclusive. Kim Jung Un is a total loser to his entire nation, but he’s nice to Mr. Rodman. The same goes to Justin Bieber, the losery image to nowadays generation, but he’s nice to his bodyguards.

    ———

    The last one, as I have mentioned clearly, my opinion of Mr. Peter does not matter here. And I honestly do not think his story as “AMAZING” and “Overcoming difficulties”.

    One thing I agree, as long as one carries himself in proper way in attire fashion, behavior, manners, women appreciate that.

  74. Bruce
    Bruce February 2, 2014 at 7:39 am | | Reply

    Life is just not fair guys so we have to work harder than others either on picking up women or making more money. Stop comparing people with other people like comparing LBH and Asian immigrants. We work with what we have. That’s why I never compare myself with other wealthy friends or else I’ll work my ass off. I’m an immigrant also so I understand the struggle. I had to work 7 days a week to get where I am now. I have to learn how to save money for reserve that we could last for 2- 5 yrs without working .

    Kung Hay Fat Choy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Bruce

  75. Fred
    Fred February 4, 2014 at 1:38 am | | Reply

    @ RDM.

    Once again thank you for your contribution.

    You compare my friend Peter’s situation to a “loser laowai” because you do not know him. I can confidently attest to his decency as a human being. He honestly tried to succeed in the U.S. but failed. He once married a Japanese woman because he likes Asian girls but had to divorce her due to her mental state. His liking of Asian girls should not be a damning characteristic, or otherwise some Asian men like myself who now like Western girls (whereas before I did not) should be condemned also for chasing girls outside his race. When the divorce happened, he lost his job in 2007-08 due to the bad economy. Then he honestly tried to make ends meet and survived on odd jobs here and there. He was borderline homeless and was not able to get one decent date with any of the white ladies in the U.S. and he was not able to secure a good job. As soon as the ladies discovered his predicament, they dumped him. Then finally in 2012, he took my suggestion and checked into teaching English in China because the ads were saying that the school will pay him well, give him an apartment to live in, and 3 meals per day every weekday. How can you beat this offer given his difficulty economically? So he accepted the job in 2013 and now he is there in Southern China, where he emails me and calls me once in awhile and tells me about how cheap and great the Chinese food is there, how he is often the center of attention in the eyes of the locals who find him exotic, and where the girls give him more attention than back home despite being 52 years old with a big belly and graying hair. So, as he says, why not take advantage of his exoticness and get a few girls once in awhile. I do not see anything wrong with dating women so long as it is consensual and they enjoy each other’s company. He is not lying, cheating, or hurting people.

    It is interesting that you can view this scenario as a “loser laowai back home” while others see it as a great economic recovery. It is like the perennial question: is the glass half full or half empty? While you can say it is half full of water, I can say that is half empty. But so long as people respect each other and not judge each other based on superficial reasons, we will have a better world, and I sincerely hope that you will do the same.

    Please do not mistake my intention as I am not lauding the greatness of the White man or his ability to pick up Asian girls. I am simply saying that we should not judge another so harshly.

    All the best to you Mr. RDM. Keep up the greatness!!!!

    Fred

  76. Fred
    Fred February 4, 2014 at 1:41 am | | Reply

    @ Bruce. Thanks. Gong Hay Fat Choy to you and everyone here.

    You make the most sense.

    Fred

  77. Bruce
    Bruce February 4, 2014 at 3:26 am | | Reply

    Fred,

    Now you know why I could still survive over this 7 Yrs recession without much hardship and still could go on vacation.. #1 rule in life is be happy and do not compare with others. As long as you’re happy, you don’t have to be a millionaire. If I’m a single Asian male , many women will give me a chance IF I ask. You know not many women will want you to be successful or rich. Most of them just want men to share their lives with. Let’s not talk about physique yet. Let’s talk about your personality and how your personality radiates thru the room. Over 17 yrs ago, I started to work out and once my body changed, my dating life changed as well. It was much easier for women to notice me and easier to stay a conversation. Just accept my OPINIONS here and do it man!!

  78. Fred
    Fred February 4, 2014 at 9:13 am | | Reply

    @ Bruce. Thanks for the advice bro. I do not think that I will be able to be as good or as smooth as you are with the ladies. Firstly, I am not as tall as you are. I think you told me that you are 6′ 1″ while I am barely 5′ 6″ and therefore given my lack of height you will have a greater advantage. American girls love tall men and not the shorter ones. Secondly, I do exercise but I cannot get so buff due to my old age and so I only tone my arms and chest a little. Thirdly, I am not as pretty as you are bro. Only the pretty boys like you can be so smooth with the girls. Finally, I am a married man and thus I am constrained by my conscience so that I must refrain from the pick-up scene. So, keep up the good looks and may you be successful in picking up girls.

    Gong Hay Fat Choy.

    Fred

  79. Bruce
    Bruce February 5, 2014 at 12:07 am | | Reply

    Fred,

    I’m not picking up chicks , my brother!!!! I’m teaching these skeptical/ traditional Asian guys here how to do it. In the past, I let the women showed interests in me or built the interests. I think you have to take testosterone. I’m doing a lot of heavy weights to build mass/muscles. I work out 5-6 times a week bro. I’m a deer/wild boar hunter and a big game fisherman for hobbies though. I love guns guns guns ( handguns and rifles) .. much much more as I’ve told you.

  80. Bruce
    Bruce February 5, 2014 at 1:38 am | | Reply

    Fred,

    You’re correct. I’m 6’1″ 215lbs solid. I’m pumped up now ready for my next work out in one hr.

  81. Fred
    Fred February 6, 2014 at 2:25 am | | Reply

    @ Bruce. All the more power to you, bro!!!!! Keep on pumping those muscles.

    Fred

  82. Bruce
    Bruce February 6, 2014 at 7:36 am | | Reply

    Fred,

    keep on working out or else your wife won’t find you attractive in the future. Build some lean muscle so you’ll look younger. I’m still powerful in my early 40’s 🙂 lol. I know man with stress and family , it’s hard but just do it. Try brother.

    Bruce

  83. Fred
    Fred February 11, 2014 at 8:13 am | | Reply

    @ Bruce. I am exercising and have been doing so for the last several years, but I am only doing so twice or thrice a week. I am doing low intensity exercising (ie. running for 30-40 min in duration plus 15 min of pull-ups, push-ups, & bar dips). I do not do any heavy weight lifting though. All the best to you bro.

    Fred

  84. David
    David February 11, 2014 at 9:38 pm | | Reply

    Suggest you folks read this article…

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-racist-sexist-fliers-usc-ucla-20140210,0,1808538.story#axzz2t1KJSKfX

    Loser laowai…some folks white, Asian or otherwise think so at UCLA.

  85. Fred
    Fred February 12, 2014 at 1:28 am | | Reply

    @ David. Thanks for sharing the post about the racist flyer in UCLA and USC. I cannot believe that others would attack WM/AW pairings. If the WM and AW are in love, then let them experience the wonders of love without external interference from the rascists.
    Fred

  86. David
    David February 12, 2014 at 1:59 am | | Reply

    Fred:

    The litmus test of how racist a western or white society is the level of tolerance if not acceptance of AW-WM couples. If the society or white family does not accept this pairing it is highly unlikely that they will accept any other white-Non-white pairing. Well they may accept a white looking Turkish or middle eastern female (Sarah Shahi of the Person of Interest comes to mind), but contrary to what the producers of the Bachelor Show think, they are not minorities once they look white. I have been trying to impress on John Quinniones of ABC that he should try and use AW-WM couples in the “What would you do?” show but to no avail.

  87. Fred
    Fred February 12, 2014 at 3:36 am | | Reply

    @ David

    Here is a beautiful story of a WM/AW in love:

    http://www.echinacities.com/china-media/Expatiate-Asks-Terminally-Ill-Girlfriend-to-Marry-Him

    I am sorry but I do not understand what you are trying to say about “John Quininones of ABC” and what you are referring to. Can you clarify?

    Thanks.

    Fred

  88. David
    David February 13, 2014 at 5:44 am | | Reply

    @Fred…we all know that there is a lot of prejudice against white-black couples. So, why waste resources and re-invent the wheel. But, other than that coupling, is America really tolerant and accepting? The only way to find out is for ABC to send an Asian woman-white male couple somewhere deep south (even an university town such as Tuscaloosa, AL will do) and let the man’s mother or father blow up on him for dating an Asian woman. Let us see how the people in the restaurant react….we will learn more about the depth of US bigotry with a Asian-white actors than with black-white actors. My only real life experience was back in 1984 or 1985 when a white woman in her late forties became very sick and began throwing up when she heard that her son was getting engaged to a Japanese-American woman in Hawaii. The incident took place in Indiana and the white woman was from Texas…and I can conclude that all parts of her body are bigoted…her bone and every nerve in her body.

  89. Fred
    Fred February 13, 2014 at 8:17 am | | Reply

    @ David. Thanks for sharing the information. Yes, I am aware of racial bigotry as I, too, have experienced it when I was younger when some other children used racial epithets against me. Once I became an adult, I have experienced it when women rejected me based on race. Nowadays, there is less racial prejudice than before as I think America in general is begining to mature and not judge another on race so much unlike the prior decades. By the way, whatever happened to that woman from Texas? Any more new about her? Is her son propserous now?

    Fred

  90. David
    David February 15, 2014 at 3:57 am | | Reply

    Dont know whether the woman from Texas accepted the marriage. Last I heard the couple was living in Hawaii and have grown children..the female completed a PhD in engineering from somewhere in the Ivy League and the second also a female getting MBA from some top school.

  91. David
    David February 15, 2014 at 3:58 am | | Reply

    http://www.pittnews.com/news/article_2ab834be-952d-11e3-8622-0017a43b2370.html

    “White Americans are the least likely to marry outside of their race, and Native Americans are the most likely to marry outside of their race, according to the 2010 U.S. Census Bureau study.”

    Fred:

    Now tell me who is the real racist. Seems to me white Americans want the others to assimilate, but not all the way.

  92. Martin
    Martin May 6, 2014 at 10:22 pm | | Reply

    Well, many people tend to judge others without knowing them. I am teaching German my mother tongue in China, just because of this in the eyes of many professional expats I am a loser, the same for some Chinese. What people do not know is that I actually used to be a regional manager for a worldwide famous German car manufacturer, then I got tired of this office life and chose to become a slow nomad, someone who work in a different country/place every year or every few months, I lost my interest in making money and swimming upstream to chase success, in my eyes life has much more to offer than these two things and I don’t need bazillions of euro to live comfortably. Anyway it does not matter whether or not people think that I am a LBH, I live for myself not for them and my assets provide me with more monthly income than they will ever earn.

    What I mean is that judging people without knowing every parts of their lives is definitely wrong, judging white men who are dating asian women is exactly the same thing, you don’t know their lives, you don’t even know them in most cases, don’t act like some chinese who are always talking/gossiping/speculating ABOUT the laowai but never WITH them (even when they speak fluent putonghua) and mind your own business, your life is too short to bother with other’s.

  93. Rdm
    Rdm May 7, 2014 at 12:08 am | | Reply

    Martin,

    Don’t judge the book by its cover.
    Don’t judge the white person with Asian women as LBH.

    Let me tell you something, do you guys (White men) judge Asian men penis by our height or our body or just being “Asian” alone?

    For all I know, you guys are the most keep talking about our bodily appendage all the time, aren’t you?

    If you don’t judge every Asian men having a small penis, then why the hell this stereotype come into existence?

    Overall, stereotypes Small Penis or LBH in this scenario, applies to MAJORITY of the population or scenario we’re witnessing every single day.

  94. Martin
    Martin August 10, 2014 at 11:07 am | | Reply

    I have a better idea, why don’t people just mind their own business and stop criticizing others’ choices when it comes to who they are dating?

    I’m a PF consultant earning between 10000 and 12000 USD per month, I am 1m95, athletic body, healthy, active, I speak fluent German (my mother tongue), English, Mandarin, Spanish and French, I own 3 houses and 2 apartments in different countries without having any debt.

    I am anything but a “loser laowai” and yes my partner is Chinese, she does not speak English, she is wonderful and considered very pretty by Chinese standards (white skin, big eyes, and so on), and we are getting married by May 2015.

    I prefer Asian and especially Chinese women over White or Black women, I don’t feel that I have to justify my personal tastes to anyone.

    How come that some individual always mind other people’s business? Their lives must be devoid of interest.

    1. Nishi
      Nishi August 2, 2015 at 2:25 am | | Reply

      Nah, you’re still a loser.

      1. Martin
        Martin September 2, 2015 at 9:27 pm | | Reply

        Nishi is a butt hurt Asian man/White woman, the impossible couple.

  95. David
    David August 10, 2014 at 11:20 pm | | Reply

    Problem is at least for many white Americans especially in the south, assimilation is a one way street…it is ok for the men to marry and date who they want, especially Asian women, but will they let an Asian male into one of these places and allow him to ask the white women living there for a date?

    http://www.marieclaire.com/world-reports/inspirational-women/revolution-on-sorority-row-september-2014

    I will bet you that if a Singaporean Chinese male dares go near one of these places, the white women involved will throw up, at least most of them, call the police, or simply get someone to lynch the guy…that is the reality.

  96. tukgadaa
    tukgadaa August 31, 2015 at 5:52 pm | | Reply

    from thailand’s statistics, 80% of women married to western men are divorced, not virgin despite unmarried women over married ones in number because thailand is a land of surplus women (women more than men by 3-4 times in number until some of men minority are transformed into feminist behaviors (ladyboys). divorced women are a type of trash women in asians’ eyes. the majority of women dating western men from thailand are ugly in thais’ eyes and generally from very poor families.

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