Double Happiness: How One Chinese American Woman Married a Chinese National | Speaking of China

84 Responses

  1. chinaelevatorstories
    chinaelevatorstories April 26, 2013 at 7:34 am | | Reply

    This is such a cute story!
    chinaelevatorstories recently posted..A day like a week like a month like a year

  2. AG
    AG April 26, 2013 at 7:46 am | | Reply

    Congratulation!

  3. Manny
    Manny April 26, 2013 at 12:39 pm | | Reply

    @Michelle Guo. Congratulations. I am happy for you. You are pretty and hot. Alex is gorgeous as well. Michelle, you are so pretty. Many Western girls do not find Chinese or Asian men attractive for whatever reason. Since you were born and raised in the U.S. even though you have a Chinese physique, you considered yourself to be a Western (American) girl. Sorry for this question: why did you not go for a Western or American White boy?

  4. Sveta
    Sveta April 26, 2013 at 3:27 pm | | Reply

    Congrats
    Sveta recently posted..E-Reading: Book Review of The Plunge by Sindhu S

  5. Michelle Guo
    Michelle Guo April 26, 2013 at 8:27 pm | | Reply

    @Manny: haha thanks for the confidence boost/compliments. It’s a bit hard to answer your question. In the US, I have a lot of ABC (American-born Chinese) friends, and the majority (but not all) of the guys I’ve seriously liked in the past have been of Chinese descent, even though they were American citizens. So I guess that explains the physical attraction part. I think the reason why I never ended up with a Western or white guy was mainly because the right one never came along. Me coming to China and meeting Alex must have just been meant to be :)
    Michelle Guo recently posted..How to renew a US visa (for your Chinese loved ones)

  6. Reo
    Reo April 26, 2013 at 8:39 pm | | Reply
  7. Reo
    Reo April 26, 2013 at 8:40 pm | | Reply

    @Michelle Guo

    Your husband is quite a handsome guy I must say. Congrats!

  8. Reo
    Reo April 26, 2013 at 8:42 pm | | Reply
  9. Laura
    Laura April 26, 2013 at 11:33 pm | | Reply

    Congratulations to both of them..the story is nice but the whole time I could only think :
    I want to move to San Diego
    San Diego, San Diego, San Diego..

    It´s not something new, every time I meet someone who lives in US San Diego are the words that come to my mind..hahaha
    Laura recently posted..World Book Day: Favourite books

  10. Eileen黃愛玲
    Eileen黃愛玲 April 26, 2013 at 11:55 pm | | Reply

    What a great story. Congratulations, Michelle! :)
    Eileen黃愛玲 recently posted..Thank you for your support!

  11. C
    C April 27, 2013 at 12:22 am | | Reply

    I personally don’t find Chinese guys physically attractive and never thought i would say it but he’s the best looking chinese guy i’ve seen so far from online. ;) Or maybe it’s the eyes and the hair style…. he looks abit like Takeshi Kaneshiro!

  12. Allen
    Allen April 27, 2013 at 1:04 am | | Reply

    First off, from one Chinese-American to another, props to Michelle.

    I was actually liking this particular article entry on this blog, an Asian-American woman who isn’t brainwashed by the constant demonization and mass media assault of Asian men in the West, a rather refreshing change from all the self-loathing accounts you get to read online out there.

    Now for the not so good part. Then we have the comment from C which is in many ways much more pointed than a directly insulting remark.

    I have to say the many back-handed “compliments” that alot of the female posters make here is rather irritating.

    I don’t claim to know how the mind of a local (mainland) Chinese man works, but why should he put Western women on a pedestal if she thinks so little of him.

    I’ll pose the same question I posed to the woman who wrote the “I used to have a near hatred for Asian men…. blah, blah, blah” article. Why should Asian men (or in this case Chinese men in particular) find YOU attractive.

    Perhaps some of the posters are not native English speakers and don’t seem to realize how their posts come across, I dunno.

    Its rather offensive the unspoken vibe that Asian or Chinese men should almost be “grateful” if someone here changes their once-narrow mind.

    @Reo. I appreciate the online smackdown you gave to the seemingly entitled and self-described “white boy” Charisma-MANNY.

  13. Deeter
    Deeter April 27, 2013 at 2:48 am | | Reply

    @C: To be fair, there are both attractive and unattractive qualities in every race. I think white women are very attractive but many men don’t think so. My Asian friends think white people are too pale like a corpse and have too much body and facial hair. There is a reason why they go to the beach to get a tan. I hear from Asian women that they find excess body hair in white men gross and disgusting. The western media, however, likes to spin it as an attractive male quality. If that was the case, then apes and gorillas are also masculine and sexy? Does the word “Neanderthal” ring a bell?
    Now back to Alex….I think he’s a good looking guy but surely he can’t be the best looking Chinese guy you’ve ever seen. No offense to Michelle. There’s Daniel Henney, Chow Yun Fat, Bruce Lee, Andy Lau, Dennis Oh. I know these are Asian men, not just Chinese men.

  14. C
    C April 27, 2013 at 3:39 am | | Reply

    Deeter: it’s just my opinion, i’m sharing. You’re seriously over analysing what i’ve just said :-P

    No, i don’t like those names of celebrities you’ve just mentioned. They don’t appeal to me. But i personally think Jet Li is hot. You forgot to mention him :-P

    Yes, there are pluses (good stock) and minuses (inbreds breeding within the same family every century…) in every race gene pool…

  15. C
    C April 27, 2013 at 3:49 am | | Reply

    Allen,
    sorry if i offended you. I know you love Chinese men and think they are just as attractive as any race.

  16. Michelle Guo
    Michelle Guo April 27, 2013 at 3:56 am | | Reply

    @Deeter: For Alex to even be compared to guys like Dennis Oh, Andy Lau, and Daniel Henney is pretty awesome. Though I hope he never figures out I just married him for his looks…

    @Allen: Thank you, fellow ABC :) In C’s defense, however, I think it’s perfectly fine to not be physically attracted to Chinese guys. It might not be a conscious thought like “That’s a Chinese guy – therefore, I’m not attracted to him.” I think it might just be that C happens to be more attracted to guys who aren’t Chinese.
    Michelle Guo recently posted..How to renew a US visa (for your Chinese loved ones)

  17. Allen
    Allen April 27, 2013 at 4:24 am | | Reply

    @ C. lol, I’m a straight male. So I don’t “love” Chinese men. Its just a bit anger inducing to see Chinese men get absolutely slammed in every expat blog or forum I have the pleasure (or misfortune) to visit.

    I am a little suprised at how vicious (not here, but on China expat forums) female expats can be towards the Chinese, particularly the men, who for all my Western upbringing, I physically resemble.

    Expat men, I can at least expect the a-hole-ish language and comments to some degree, as Asian and Asian-American men do in fact engage in that type of behavior also. So in that sense, its a level playing field when it comes to slinging mud.

    Pardon me if I came off too harsh earlier.

  18. R Zhao
    R Zhao April 27, 2013 at 6:10 am | | Reply

    First, what a great story! Congrats Michelle. You guys are a very cute couple. Your writing made me LOL. I need to check out your blog. :)

    In regards to the “I don’t find Chinese men attractive but. . . ” comment, it kinda irks me when people say this BUT I also understand it. Before I came to China I didn’t think I’d be attracted to Asian men, but turns out, they can be very sexy (just like every other ethnicity!). Most of us have certain types we are more drawn to, but I think it’s a shame to write a whole ethnicity off as unattractive. If you open your eyes (and your mind) up, you’ll probably find that plenty of them are good looking.

    @Allen, is it just Chinese men or Chinese people in general? I feel there is a lot of negativity surrounding some expats living in China. It’s interesting to me because most of the expat women I talk to seem pretty open to the idea of dating locals, but maybe that’s just the people I hang out with.

  19. C
    C April 27, 2013 at 7:35 am | | Reply

    Allen,
    I forgive ya. :). I know some people will interpret it differently even though I thought i was just being objective about not really drawn to Chinese guys physically. You’re getting caught up in other people’s negative perceptions. You can’t change what some people out there think. Why get frustrated with them like that? You should get funny with them instead. Um yeah like Peter Chao did…

    Michelle,
    Thanks for stepping in line! You’re almost right there.. but I do find the Eurasians attractive though more than any groups . (Variety is the spice of life ;))

    R Zhao: Good for you to know they rock your boat. Haven’t seen any that’s ‘attractive’ in looks or personality where i am… They all seem to wear really glasses, look similiar to each other, act too fobby, lack a certain individual charm…or talk too loudly. But I’ll keep my eyes open. :)

  20. Allen
    Allen April 27, 2013 at 4:55 pm | | Reply

    @R Zhao

    “@Allen, is it just Chinese men or Chinese people in general? I feel there is a lot of negativity surrounding some expats living in China. ”

    There’s a lot of negativity directed towards Chinese people in general, though the racist vitriol is definitely racheted up for Chinese men.

    I’m getting a decent education in how white Westerners “really” view Asians, which I don’t really get to see, interacting with white Americans in the part of the United States where I live. These people are generally cordial and respectful to my face (which I reciprocate), perhaps because I carry myself in a way that I don’t come off as someone to be “safely” stepped on.

    But then I would see on occassion how these same types of people would be absolutely sh!tty towards what C terms as “fobby” Asians, which would describe every Asian person from Asia who come to the West.

    Blogs like this, and forums like SHEX, The Beijinger, offers me a glimpse of the Western mindset as it relates to their attitudes towards Asians, that I otherwise wouldn’t get, without going to China. (I’ve been to HK, Taiwan, and Japan, but those were 2 -3 week vacations, obviously not the same as living in Asia among the locals and expats).

  21. Michelle Guo
    Michelle Guo April 27, 2013 at 7:31 pm | | Reply

    I think it’s super interesting to redefine or re-examine the word “fobby” when you’re actually living in China. I mean, technically, the locals aren’t fobs, so why are they only deemed “fobby” when they move to the US? Because they’re different?

    Personally, I think some guys are actually sexier with glasses. Though I’m totally biased, Alex has reading glasses and whenever he wears them, I’m even more attracted to him.

    Also, @C: I think it’s funny you say that a lot of Chinese guys look similar to each other, because I have heard a lot of Chinese people say that all Caucasians look the same :P
    Michelle Guo recently posted..How to renew a US visa (for your Chinese loved ones)

  22. Eileen黃愛玲
    Eileen黃愛玲 April 27, 2013 at 8:50 pm | | Reply

    “In regards to the “I don’t find Chinese men attractive but. . . ” comment, it kinda irks me when people say this BUT I also understand it. Before I came to China I didn’t think I’d be attracted to Asian men, but turns out, they can be very sexy (just like every other ethnicity!). Most of us have certain types we are more drawn to, but I think it’s a shame to write a whole ethnicity off as unattractive. If you open your eyes (and your mind) up, you’ll probably find that plenty of them are good looking.”

    I couldn’t agree more!

  23. askdsk
    askdsk April 27, 2013 at 9:24 pm | | Reply

    For western women, finding Asian men attractive is an acquired taste. I won’t judge C too harshly.
    I constantly get comments from Chinese girls and other Eastern Asians (Korean and Japanese) about being good looking. But that almost never happens from white girls in US.

  24. Laura
    Laura April 27, 2013 at 9:32 pm | | Reply

    We all need time to get used to new things. As Michelle said before for some Asians Caucasians look like the same..in Europe my friends also have many difficulties to differentiate among the Asian Community. For me there is no confussion at all, I´m used to it.

    Maybe is the same with those who don´t feel attracted by people from China, for some it can be normal, for others exotic and for other people strange.

    … Same for Asians about Caucasians!
    Laura recently posted..World Book Day: Favourite books

  25. Charlotte
    Charlotte April 27, 2013 at 9:35 pm | | Reply

    Neat story! I like how you asked him out via text…that’s what my husband did.
    I laughed when I saw the wedding picture of you sitting on the bed–we have that same fabric! I think must be one of only a dozen or so choices at markets all throughout China!

  26. forest
    forest April 27, 2013 at 10:08 pm | | Reply

    @askdsk – Agree attraction is an acquired taste, it evolves over time, I believe. I also think I am average looking, somehow I get compliment from white girls, no so much from Asian girls.

    Couples are all about fit. If we find each other attractive, that is that.
    I think it is mean to critics others, whoever they are and whatever opinions they have.

  27. Bashia
    Bashia April 27, 2013 at 10:43 pm | | Reply

    First a congratulations to Michelle on your wonderful love story and marriage!

    Second, I would like to respond to Michelle’s question as to why one may be considered “fobby” in the US:

    I think it’s a bit weird too. I believe that was a term that was more prevalent and relevant in the past, not so much now. For example, my family is European and anyone who came over from Europe past a certain age (i.e. not a little kid) would have been considered a fob. Not so much anymore. Why?
    1. Back then, they really stuck out; From difficulties with speaking English to being really unfamiliar with a lot of pop culture, certain etiquette and basically what was considered “cool” here, especially in terms of things like fashion. For example, back then (which was any time I guess up to the late 1980s to early 90s?) you could spot an Eastern European ‘fob’ from a mile away because they wore stuff an American would not, like white leather dress shoes with acid wash jeans, a bubble shaped windbreaker and some funky colored T shirt. It was really fashionable back home, but in the US it was deemed as inapproprately flashy at best or really geeky at worst. On top of that they seemed really uncomfortable and unsure in their new environment. And Americans around them knew very little about such countries and would often be impatient with and feel frustrated by cultural misunderstandings or what was considered to be poor to non-existent English.

    2. Fast forward to today, where the media and American fashion has gone global, where a lot of kids everywhere have the option to learn English when they are young and because of tv and internet are very familiar with American pop culture, etiquette rules and life in the US in general. Higher education is also far more prevalent now around the world. Plus it’s much, much easier now to make friends online with anyone anywhere, so you feel more comfortable when landing in a new place. It is not so strange to you as it would have been, and many Americans have a lot more awareness of the outside world now too.

    3. For example, my cousin was born and raised in Europe. When he comes to the US to visit, he blends right in, whereas a generation ago that would not have been the case. In contrast to a generation ago, 1. my cousin began learning English in grade school, from British born tutors so his accent has a British tint to it. Before his generation, that was not even an option. 2. He also has traveled a lot and has friends all over the world, including the US. The past generation’s only travel they got to do was when they emgirated and that was pretty much it. 3. From his travels he has built up a pretty impressive high fashion urban wardrobe, so he comes across as very worldy and stylish. A generation ago, they wore whatever was available locally back home and had a tendency to stick to that fashion sense (or lack of). 4. He is highly educated and has had cross cultural executive etiquette training because of his job. A generation ago, you were considered especially lucky if you got to graduate high school. Cross cultural etiquette training was a completely unknown concept. I am sure there are other factors I probably forgot to mention.

    So, when he comes here, people always marvel on how he speaks English so well and so eloquently, how his accent is so very easy to understand and how he sounds so worldly and well educated. They also mention that he looks so modern, stylish, confident and self possessed. And they openly say they did not expect it! They would say explicitly or implicitly, considering where he came from, that they were expecting a fobby dude.

    My fiancé is Malaysian Chinese, and despite speaking English with an accent, he fit right in when he was in the US. He even told someone jokingly that he was born here and they believed him without question. He too had many of the same advantages as my cousin and as a result can pretty much settle in anywhere.

    So I think the whole “fob” thing is on its way out, if not already. (Well that is my two cents anyway).

    P.S. please excuse any typos, I am typing this on a mobile device.

  28. Laura
    Laura April 27, 2013 at 11:01 pm | | Reply

    @Bashia,
    I totally agree with your points. As for point 3, I think younger generations can fit in very well and adapt faster. Bounding is easier.

    I speak English with my own accent and I don´t have any communication problem, at all. When I meet people for the first time they think I come from US ( my accent is obviously not from UK..). Actually in some meetings at work they ask me from which state I come from, but this confussion happens because my English is different from the one of my colleagues.

    I had a teacher during my Master studies who said that having an accent is not something bad, he is from UK and he thinks when someone does a good presentation, slides are fine and feels comfortable, if he or she has a different English people will remember that speech easily because they will somehow filter the voice, different English.

    It is all about feeling confident, I´m not a native speaker, and I have been to UK once in my life, I have never been to US, so my English came out thanks to lessons, music, and lots of traveling and studying abroad.

    My aunt is teacher, she has awesome English skills and she likes to criticize how other people speak, she speaks with British accent, and she has never lived in UK, she needs to force it. I have to say that she travels every year to many English speaking countries.
    If I say eggplant she is going to ask me for the English equivalent, is a bit annoying, but I thought..well..she is a teacher she is teaching. Last time Tony, Chinese, came with me to her home and she did the same question to him, he didn´t know the English word and she was upset.

    At that moment she didn´t fit in her own home. Tony has only been to 2 countries: China Mainland and Spain. So the answer form my side was: he doesn´t need to know the British equivalent to every word, everyone understands this English, and I´m sure if you ask for auvergine many people will be totally lost.

    So is an awesome English teacher, but she can´t fit in when we talk in English, with any of us, either with her daughters, we all use the same English and she pushes the book one too much.

    With all this I want to say, that awesome language skills will take you to many places, but awesome people skills and sense of humour will take you wherever you want!
    Laura recently posted..World Book Day: Favourite books

  29. Bruce
    Bruce April 28, 2013 at 9:08 am | | Reply

    @ C, I’m shirtless with a beard and muscles all over. Do you find me attractive? Pulling my chest hair off.

    Any body types will need time to be appreciated.

  30. C
    C April 28, 2013 at 9:51 am | | Reply

    Bruce,
    No, you’re fat. Takeshi’s better looking than you.

  31. Bruce
    Bruce April 28, 2013 at 12:48 pm | | Reply

    case closed ! :). You only like movie stars. Now we know why asian men will never be recognized. I’ve never looked up movie stars as role models! They haven’t done much to the asian image in my opinion. I used to see a few celebrities in public but I didn’t pay attention to them or gave a damn about them. I’m not the type person who envies the rich, the famous or the powerful. We must create our own paths. Sorry I’m much older than most of you so I don’t have such mentality… looking toward celebrities for inspirations or admiration. A pretty boy will never inspire me! I only like to have more and more strong asian men who are physically and mentally strong but not a bunch of feminine pretty boys in the media! You people only admire/like a few asian movie stars but what about asian men like us out there? Are we just junk to you? I hate to hear people comparing a person’s looks with other celebrities when you know S..T about them in real life. When I watched TV , they announced ” world most beautiful men/women”. Most people shouldn’t be on that list when you and I know that even local men/women are more beautiful than them. Some men and women look good on camera but they look like S..T in person. hint hint.

  32. ItsMario
    ItsMario April 28, 2013 at 11:34 pm | | Reply

    Hey Michelle. Great story. This was posted over in the AsianAmerican subreddit at http://redd.it/1d76zs and in a Asian american female subreddit at http://redd.it/1d75ov.

    The comments are interesting. It seems tons of AA women have gotten defensive about your dating choices. Lots of commenters said they are happy for you for choosing to date a Chinese man. But the AA women commenters then got defensive and said they wanted to date white men. I think it’s sad how they are using your story to get defensive. Read the comments and would like to hear what you thnk.

  33. Sez
    Sez April 29, 2013 at 12:52 am | | Reply

    Congratulations to you both! What a lovely story. :)

  34. Manny
    Manny April 29, 2013 at 12:11 pm | | Reply

    @ Michelle Guo. Too darn bad that I have a ABC gf now. Too darn bad that you have Alex now. If I had known about you before, I would have tried to engratiate myself into your inner circle as I have an uncontrollable love for Asian females.

  35. Michelle
    Michelle May 1, 2013 at 12:46 am | | Reply

    @ItsMario: thanks for the heads up! I’ll definitely head over and put in my two cents :)
    Michelle recently posted..How to renew a US visa (for your Chinese loved ones)

  36. Bruce
    Bruce May 1, 2013 at 7:40 am | | Reply

    Michelle can date /marry whoever she wants. It’s not our right to dictate her to date/marry western or white or black men. If you’re an asian woman and you only want to date/marry “white men”, then you’re a Mother F……. stupid idiot. This indicates that you have no knowledge of anything in this world and you have no mind of your own. Michelle followed her heart and she is happy.

    I know an asian woman currently working her ass off while her white bf stays home doing nothing. My point is.. you just have to pick the right person not race period.

  37. Bruce
    Bruce May 1, 2013 at 8:38 am | | Reply

    Think for a second here. Do you think it’s really that easy to find LOVE? By saying ” I love you” will guarantee love forever or by crying at a wedding day will guarantee you love forever? We just know an asian woman cried her heart out during her wedding day 2 yrs ago and now she cheated on her husband with another co worker.. They are divorced now. This type of women can be any race or anybody you know. Maybe your type of love is different from mine. Our actions speak louder than your phrase ” I love you ( phony)”.

  38. David
    David May 1, 2013 at 9:06 am | | Reply

    Think Manny needs some help. As far as Michelle is concerned, had African American women done what she did beginning in the 1960s, and married black men from Africa and the Caribbean and brought them and their families into this country, I can guarantee you that Mississippi would have gone for Obama in 2012 and certain black men on death row who were executed despite evidence of possible innocence, would be alive and walking the streets today!

  39. Marshall
    Marshall May 1, 2013 at 2:31 pm | | Reply

    It’s interesting how you mention some of the cultural differences you have encountered … I found myself laughing when you mentioned the confusion as to whether or not Alex liked you (I’ve heard this A LOT from my Asian female friends). Being an American without any Asian roots and dating a Chinese foreign national has provided me some learning lessons of my own coming from a complete foreigner aspect looking into Chinese culture. Glad to hear it has been working out for you!
    Marshall recently posted..Chinese / American Relationships … what to expect

  40. Sara
    Sara May 3, 2013 at 3:07 am | | Reply

    @askdsk

    “For western women, finding Asian men attractive is an acquired taste”

    ……??????

    I completely disagree. I think this is an insulting blanket statement, insulting to both Asian men and Western women. Attraction to anything/anyone can be natural or acquired, and implying that “Western women” (of all ethnicities) are somehow only attracted to “Asian men” (one out of a world of ethnicities )if they develop some acquired taste for them is just wrong. You will find Western women of all ethnicities who find Asian men attractive naturally.

  41. askdsk
    askdsk May 3, 2013 at 7:16 am | | Reply

    @Sara
    A small number of people from all ethnicities have broader appeal. True, but it won’t help to swing public opinions. I think you can use exceptions to attack most arguments.

    Most western women are like C. I came across many. The remarked Asian men in similar ways. Unless these women focus on Asian physical features differently, they won’t think most Asian men are attractive. I am concerned to be attractive by Asians. How come I don’t feel the love in US? Maybe I am delusional.

  42. David
    David May 3, 2013 at 8:53 am | | Reply

    @Sara…all true. Except that AM/WW couples are still very rare although they are the richest households in America. Outside of this site and a handful of other sites, most White women will not even touch a non-white guy let alone an Asian guy or even an Asian American guy. Most white women in America will hold their noses at the thought of dating a non-white guy let alone an Asian American guy, rich or poor not withstanding. That is unfortunately the reality. And most Asian guys when they see a white woman, particularly a white American woman probably think one word, a word that is the topic of discussion in the next post: RACIST!

  43. David
    David May 3, 2013 at 9:03 am | | Reply

    “I am a little suprised at how vicious (not here, but on China expat forums) female expats can be towards the Chinese, particularly the men, who for all my Western upbringing, I physically resemble.”

    And the Chinese men confer white privilege on these women by saying nothing about it, as though white women need more privilege in this world. Let black or Asian men say something bad about white women in America, all hell will break loose. Also Manny can go to Hong Kong and chase Asian women. Let an Asian try chasing white women in Athens, GA or Tuscaloosa, AL and advertise it as Manny does…see what happens….he would be alive to get out of there alive. One Japanese Auto Exec in Alabama was dating a white volleyball coach and he is richer than most people in his upper middle class neighborhood. The locals made sure that the Auto company put him on a plane back to Japan…and this was 2009 after Obama was elected…white privilege is alive and well.

  44. David
    David May 3, 2013 at 9:17 am | | Reply

    “I don’t claim to know how the mind of a local (mainland) Chinese man works, but why should he put Western women on a pedestal if she thinks so little of him.

    I’ll pose the same question I posed to the woman who wrote the “I used to have a near hatred for Asian men…. blah, blah, blah” article. Why should Asian men (or in this case Chinese men in particular) find YOU attractive.”

    This leads to a bigger problem: white privilege. When whites in Germany and the UK attack Asian foreign workers, even skilled ones as slime and vermin, Singaporeans and Hong Kongers dont dish out in kind…they dont ask the Germans and the English slime to get the hell out of their country. In most cases I am the only one saying that repatriation needs to be fare and how about exchanging the Germans in China for the Chinese living and working in Germany…like a prisoner exchange and the blog usually stops dead on its tracks. However, I dont see other Asians commenting and that to me is white privilege conferred. Had many white women bad mouth local men in Singapore and no one does anything. Let an Asian woman bad mouth white men in Louisiana or Mississippi see what happens.

  45. David
    David May 3, 2013 at 9:19 am | | Reply

    @askdsk…C is the kind of woman who will likely hold her nose when someone tries to set her up with a non-white man let alone Asian man!

  46. C
    C May 3, 2013 at 1:58 pm | | Reply

    David,
    You’re right, but not out of hatred or racism. The attraction is not there. :-P

    Askdsk,
    Yes, I will agree with you, as I have observed white women around me every where, it is a mostly acquired taste to be interested in Asian or Chinese men. A white woman will generally just won’t go out with an asian man living in an Asian country unless if they have have a prominent interest in Asian culture / their languages / good looking. But you’ll also hear about white women who will go out with them just because they’re totally loaded with money. That’s just my opinion. Jocelyn is a perfect example of that. :)

  47. C
    C May 3, 2013 at 2:01 pm | | Reply

    I forgot to add more: to say Jocelyn is a perfect example of the first point i’ve made in the above post. (White woman interested in Asian culture and language)

  48. C
    C May 3, 2013 at 2:07 pm | | Reply

    askdsk: Improve on your personality and confidence,
    I’m sure you’ll meet a nice open minded white gorgeous woman who’s not materialistic and see into your heart rather than your skin colour

  49. askdsk
    askdsk May 3, 2013 at 2:33 pm | | Reply

    @C
    I hope to provide my fair share of inputs. If someone won’t appreciate my whole package, I am not motivated to try harder either. Plenty of other pursuits in life other than dating. Plenty of Asian women are still available.

  50. Allen
    Allen May 3, 2013 at 3:24 pm | | Reply

    @C. Are you “condesa” from Shanghai Expat by any chance? That would explain a lot. (I know its a long shot, but we do ive in a small world).

    Also, its weird someone who isn’t attracted to Asian men, and quite adamant about it, would post on a blog about Chinese men/Western women relations.

  51. Allen
    Allen May 3, 2013 at 3:58 pm | | Reply

    @David. I do see many of your points. I do want to add, however, that I have a good deal of empathy for the Western women who do date/marry Asian men and experience what I call racism “by association”.

    By that I mean, the negativity the woman experiences for being who she’s with, that she otherwise wouldn’t experience alone. I know this to be true here in the States, but I see they get it from the locals in Asia too.

    I can only imagine what a punch in the gut that must be experiencing it for the first time.

    Ultimately, I suppose, its how much the person you are with means to you (and you to him) that should matter.

  52. askdsk
    askdsk May 3, 2013 at 4:19 pm | | Reply

    @Allen
    Sounds about right.

  53. Bruce
    Bruce May 3, 2013 at 6:15 pm | | Reply

    @C , What kind of man are you attracted to?

    Well, some asian men are not attracted to white women ,too

  54. forest
    forest May 3, 2013 at 11:52 pm | | Reply

    “For western women, finding Asian men attractive is an acquired taste”

    Since I second the statement, I must add “finding Asian men attractive is an adapted taste influenced by family and society”. What could be the reason when your childhood friend all of sudden does not want to be associated with you once she reaches middle school age ?

  55. Sara
    Sara May 4, 2013 at 12:15 am | | Reply

    I agree, the majority of white Western women might not consider Asian men attractive. I just think it’s important to not lump everyone into one group, and saying “Western woman” doesn’t even necessarily mean “White woman”; that’s a big thing I think a lot of you guys need to be careful about and more clear about when you’re posting.

    I’m not a psychologist; I’m sure conditioning and what you’re used to seeing as a child influence what you find physically attractive, but I don’t think it’s as limiting as you guys think. I’m from a very white city, the first Asian people I met were some female Korean exchange students in my high school. But for as long as I can remember, I found Asian guys on TV generally more attractive than supposedly handsome white guys (rugged, lots of muscles, facial/chest/arm/leg hair, etc. – none of that ever turned me on). But my family or culture never conditioned me to like Asian guys; in fact when I first went to Japan my family thought I was crazy and discouraged it. *shrug* So I don’t know what you mean by “acquired” – to me it just seems like I’ve always been this way.

    I know I’m not in the majority but I’m definitely not some incredibly rare person. I have a lot of white female friends who’ve never even been to Asia, who don’t speak any Asian languages/aren’t necessarily interested in the culture/whatever who find Asian guys attractive and would date one if they got to know him a little and thought their personalities might match (which is the same criteria they use for deciding to date a guy of any ethnicity).

  56. C
    C May 4, 2013 at 3:54 am | | Reply

    Allen,
    No am not her (and not white either). And I’ve never visited Shanghai Expat forum before.
    I wasn’t being “adamant” about it at all. I really came here to compliment Michelle’s husband anyway and yeah, wanted to test your reactions too by saying why I wasn’t really drawn to Asian men…but most of you commenters, acted really defensive, and acted like i was racist? or it’s wrong for me to tell the truth like it is or at least i thought the exercise of free speech was respected here….:-P.

    Bruce,
    I feel like once i answer your question which isn’t what you want to hear, you’re just going to keep being defensive.

  57. askdsk
    askdsk May 4, 2013 at 9:03 am | | Reply

    I refer to western women as white women really. It suits the context. Women of color in general have better sense how their looks have also been overlooked.
    If no white women find Asian men attractive for whatever reason, you won’t see any relationships. Attraction is needed, and it spices up relationship. Asian men will have harder time. Sounds pessimistic, but true.
    It helps to point out I find certain non Asian groups have higher percentage of attractive people, which helps to elevate status of attraction for their entire population.

  58. forest
    forest May 4, 2013 at 12:37 pm | | Reply

    @Sara – by Adaptive I mean both directions.
    Any race has attractive men and women. The nature attraction can be seen through whom we play with as kids.
    The fact that parents react viciously negative to slight hint of attractiveness toward other race or small kids blur out racial slur in public tells a lot.
    For young adult with lesser parent influence, the attraction is mostly developed through personal experience, I think. Once you find out people of another race are just human beings as well, you start to find attractive people among them.

  59. David
    David May 4, 2013 at 2:25 pm | | Reply

    “You’re right, but not out of hatred or racism. The attraction is not there”

    Hatred no, racism yes. Rejecting someone on basis of color is racism. End of story.

  60. David
    David May 4, 2013 at 2:37 pm | | Reply

    C is implying she is Asian? Yeah plenty of Asian women who wont go for Asian men either. 80% of white women who wont date Asian women wont date blacks or dark skinned Hispanics either. They might date and marry a Chechnyan like the Tsarnaev brothers becuase he was white enough.
    @Sara..but would your family think it is ok if it is the other way around? If your brother was interested in an Asian woman. Thirty years ago that was unacceptable like the experience I encountered while visiting a family in August 1984 during my Uni days in the state of Indiana or another encounter I had with another white family in Canada about a white guy having a Chinese gf. These days I find that more and more white families are fine with their sons marrying Asian women but with the daughters it is a no, no. Outside the US it may be different based on the experience of Expat Edna.

  61. David
    David May 4, 2013 at 2:40 pm | | Reply

    “I know I’m not in the majority but I’m definitely not some incredibly rare person. I have a lot of white female friends who’ve never even been to Asia, who don’t speak any Asian languages/aren’t necessarily interested in the culture/whatever who find Asian guys attractive and would date one if they got to know him a little and thought their personalities might match (which is the same criteria they use for deciding to date a guy of any ethnicity).”

    I still think that outside this blog and the AMWW magazine, white women interested in Asian men are very few and far between! San Marino, CA used to be an Asian Sundown town, but now it is a rich Asian majority town. Plenty of Asian women with white men in that town but may be just one couple the other way around.

  62. Allen
    Allen May 4, 2013 at 4:10 pm | | Reply

    “I still think that outside this blog and the AMWW magazine, white women interested in Asian men are very few and far between!”

    Well obviously any self-aware Asian man who isn’t lying to himself knows this.

    But isn’t this the very reason why this blog should generally remain positive, and be a support system for the comparatively fewer AMXF relationships? By the way, the women posting here are of diffierent races, so I never think its a good idea to take anyone for granted.

    This very article entry, Michelle talks about the cultural issues she has to navigate as an ABC in China.

    I don’t have an issue with C’s choices or preferences in mates, (I believe it was Eurasians who resemble Takeshi Kaneshiro, would make no difference to me if her type was the pale dude from Twilight, lol), but the primary readership of this blog are women in relationships with Asian men, and slagging on Asian men seem a little bit , I don’t know, not in the spirit of this blog.

    Glad to hear C isn’t “condesa”. That woman is more bitter than burnt garlic. Not even the worst of the expat MEN are as vulgar or bigoted as this one.

  63. Laura
    Laura May 4, 2013 at 8:01 pm | | Reply

    I don´t think that someone who doesn´t want to date out of his or her own race is racist, I think is a different thing.
    When it comes to dating people have preferences, taste. Some people only like blue eyes, some women only date tall guys, some guys only date shorter women, some prefer Asian women, some prefer Asian men,….

    If a person doesn´t want to date a Asian / Black / White / Hispano,… he or she has reasons, maybe is an attraction thing, maybe is a bad experience in the past, maybe is that he or she needs time to get used to different things, maybe just doesn´t want.

    If that person doesn´t like other races for everything, and discriminates for every kind of situation then we could say is a racist.

    Of course there might be cases where it is because of that but then that person is not only not dating them is also not even meeting them for anything else.

    I have met a lot of women here who only want to date foreigners, is that racism against their own race..?

    @askdsk,
    Great, you have a whole package and that´s who you are. Plus life is not only about dating.
    Laura recently posted..May Day and in Spain there are more than 6,000,000 people unemployed

  64. Bruce
    Bruce May 4, 2013 at 8:26 pm | | Reply

    We really don’t care who you date but it’s the sterotypes that you have on your mind scare us the most. You know now I see all people are almost the same s..t. I don’t see anything special about it.

  65. C
    C May 5, 2013 at 1:28 am | | Reply

    Laura,
    You’re dead on about it. People are too quick to give the racist card on others for saying that. They don’t think outside of the box. They’re too black and white. Alot of people here where i am, thinks the Japanese guys are hotter than the Chinese anyway. Is that err still racism? :-P

  66. Canadian-Born Chinese Guy
    Canadian-Born Chinese Guy May 5, 2013 at 3:50 am | | Reply

    I find it quite disconcerting that some guys here incorrectly assumed that ‘C’ is a white woman. To complain about racism, yet make false and prejudicial assumptions is ironic. Never assume.

    I also wanted to make a point about a fact that has been mentioned a few times here, that Asian-man/white-woman couples have the highest income in the US. I wanted to emphasize that it is the white wife’s income in this pairing that results in their combined income being the highest.

    The same source of statistics indicate that Asian men who are married to Asian women actually have higher income than Asian men who are married to white women. However, the white wife’s income is exceedingly higher than the Asian wife’s income so that the combined income of the Asian-man/white-woman couple ends up being higher than the Asian-man/Asian-woman couple (and all other couples).

    Whoever says that white women only date/marry Asian men for their money have always been wrong, but now you can show them these statistics (Pew Research Center) to refute their baseless claim! :)

  67. C
    C May 5, 2013 at 9:55 am | | Reply

    Statistics aren’t really necessarily true. I enjoy fudge my income numbers when it comes to filling the consensus form.

  68. C
    C May 5, 2013 at 9:56 am | | Reply

    Statistics aren’t really necessarily true. I enjoy fudging my income numbers when it comes to filling the consensus form.

  69. Bruce
    Bruce May 5, 2013 at 10:36 am | | Reply

    It’s some what true because why would make up some false income on Asian when the majority in the U.S is White.

  70. Canadian-Born Chinese Guy
    Canadian-Born Chinese Guy May 5, 2013 at 1:35 pm | | Reply

    Statistics are factual and based on collected data. I would believe statistics more than what people say. Isn’t falsifying your income against the law? :|

  71. Allen
    Allen May 5, 2013 at 3:24 pm | | Reply

    I never assumed C was white, but I certainly guessed she lived in the West.

    “where i am… They all seem to wear really glasses, look similiar to each other, act too fobby, lack a certain individual charm…or talk too loudly”

    Sounds like how many North Americans (including Asian women) stereotype Asian men, none of which applies to me except wearing glasses (never liked wearing contacts).

    The Peter Chao reference (funny dude) made me think “Asian Canadian”.

    Obviously C isn’t being rude or even overtly insulting, so I’m not picking on her. But given the audience of this blog a certain level of umbrage is to be expected.

    The Japanese guys “hotter” than Chinese is a good rebuttal of any racism accusations (only one poster explicitly directed the dreaded “R” word), but in my experience most Asian-American men care very little about that.

    When in the 1980’s, a Chinese dude could be brutally murdered by two out-of-work Detroit autoworkers because Japanese cars were selling very well, most Asian-American males tend to realize “were in the same boat”.

  72. askdsk
    askdsk May 5, 2013 at 4:35 pm | | Reply

    I assume C is white. In fact, I won’t be too nice with that talk if she turns out to be Asian.
    People forget China is a huge country. Northerners are generally better looking.Height and certain body build is associated with attractiveness. That is how we are defined by society. You can argue if that is illusion or not.
    In more own opinion, Korean men are generally better looking. Also, they also have better fashion senses like Japanese. When Chinese get richer and people travel more, they will update their images too.
    None of Asian female stars in America keep my attention. I seriously question American beauty senses for Asians.

  73. Sara
    Sara May 5, 2013 at 7:45 pm | | Reply

    Thanks for thoughtful responses. I suppose it’s true that most of my friends are similar to me, so although I knew we were in the minority I guess I didn’t realize just how small that minority might be.

    @ askdsk re movie stars:

    Actually, my husband said the same thing about white men marrying Asian women – according to him and his friends the Chinese women he sees married to white men aren’t generally women who Chinese men find attractive.

    (I personally think just about every Asian woman is pretty but hey.)

  74. askdsk
    askdsk May 5, 2013 at 8:41 pm | | Reply

    I think the American impression of Asian women was shaped by early immigrant groups from Southern China and later through Vietnam war perhaps. None of my family members has slant eyes. So I was once puzzled by the stereotypes. If Asians are teased by having those eyes, how come the public faces in media represent those features and are viewed as beautiful? That only makes me turns away from those media. By downgrading other ethnic groups, you can elevate your own status and make them powerless.
    I am also aware many white women won’t comment on your look positively out of peer pressure too.

  75. C
    C May 6, 2013 at 1:21 am | | Reply

    CBC,
    I can get away with it… They don’t have time to check/verify 10 million people’s information…And I do own the right to have my privacy and why should the government always have to control and keep every type of information about me? :-P

  76. David
    David May 6, 2013 at 7:47 am | | Reply

    I would like to think that common values will play a role. But, obviously for many like Ms. Russell of the Boston bombing infamy skin color will always triumph over shared common values, at least here in America. I would like to tell CBC one thing: citations and links please!

  77. Canadian-Born Chinese Guy
    Canadian-Born Chinese Guy May 6, 2013 at 10:22 pm | | Reply

    C, indeed! Less government is good government. I think the Canadian census usually has a range of incomes that you can select, instead of asking you to specify your exact income.

    David,
    http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/files/2012/02/SDT-Intermarriage-II.pdf.
    Scroll to last page for summary.
    P.S. Relax a little more, okey dokey?

  78. Jason
    Jason May 7, 2013 at 1:46 pm | | Reply

    “For western women, finding Asian men attractive is an acquired taste”

    Who wrote this nonsense? What does the “acquired taste” part mean?

    Why don’t the author just write what he/she really means, I think what he wants to say is “Asian men are sub-human and inferior to Western men so finding them attractive is not normal. ”

    Why beat around the bush….

  79. askdsk
    askdsk May 7, 2013 at 2:00 pm | | Reply

    @Jason
    Should I remind you I am also Asian?

  80. Kin
    Kin May 8, 2013 at 6:39 am | | Reply

    “Northerners are generally better looking.”

    I beg you pardon?

    Seriously all of this talk about attractiveness is ridiculous, it goes to shows how shallow or superficial society become. Why can’t we judge people by their heart?

    Anyway good for you Michelle for finding true love.

  81. Trash
    Trash May 11, 2013 at 10:02 pm | | Reply

    Hahaha comments are almost as good as the article. Anyway (especially that C person) if you have a bias for/against a certain race, that is by definition racist. Framing it in the context of physical attraction is nothing more than attempt to justify your racism. Believe it or not the markers that indicate physical attractiveness for both males and females are present in all racial archetypes. These markers are, in general, meant to indicate health. Having a pointy, high bridged nose, double-eyelids, etc are the result of influences stemming from a long, historically racist history. So I laugh when someone says they find white people more or only physically attractive and actually believe its a simple preference.

    I often hear the argument (in class) that “I must be a hairist if I’m mainly attracted to blondes or an eyeist if I have a preference for blue eyes”. To which I say, no, because those terms are not actually words but you would still be technically discriminating. The real question is how much discrimination is acceptable to you.

    As for the main story above ethnicity is for the most part something different. Her union is in alot of ways extraordinary considering where she’s from. We are talking about a society (increasingly globalized) that normalizes the desexualization of non-Whites, mainly Asian Males after all and where woman like C believe in their right to have these kinds of preferences (like it truly is a choice they are making rather than being a product of racist influences). But being culturally open to another ethnicity seems to be easier for others than being physically open to another race or heaven forbid not even considering race (now there’s a though difficult to grasp).

    Anyway, carry on.

  82. C
    C May 12, 2013 at 4:22 am | | Reply

    Trash,
    No it’s not. That’s your opinion that i am ‘racist’ as defined by you. And if White – Black – Chinese people only prefer their own race (because of emotional comfort level or cultural issues) , then that’s racism? Your definition of it is ridiculous. You’re too black and white about the issue and only reading it based on the words spoken/used here but not the tone and intention of the person. You don’t know me so cry “wolf” all you want. You’re going off in another whole new level on this issue of racism. So if i say this to you?

    I seem to get along better with people who are racially mixed especially people from South Africa or just racially mixed in general because they’re friendly to me and don’t ask me fucking annoying personal questions, analysing me comparing me and making stupid assumptions about me without knowing what my beliefs are. And tell me, I am supposed to act in a certain way based on my appearance/cultural background/birth country. So in your terms now, i am RACIST? Jesus! Guess you deserve a laurel wreath and a medal for catching out a RACIST like me in the internet. Bravo!

  83. David
    David May 15, 2013 at 11:01 am | | Reply

    @C…Chinese marrying Chinese is cultural compatability. Even a southern white baptist marrying a southern white baptist is cultural compatability. An English marrying English or even Welsh is cultural compatability. However, a southern white who says that she would marry a French Canadian or a white Chechnyan terrorist (and cover her body) with whom she has nothing in common other than skin color, but wont marry a southern Asian baptist born and brought up in Alabama, at best has a white skin color fever (analogous to Asian fever) but at worst is a racist. This is my view. You are entitled to your view, Trash and I are entitled to ours!

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