Double Happiness: Setting Up His Chinese Nephew With American Women | Speaking of China

199 Responses

  1. centaur
    centaur March 22, 2013 at 3:37 am | | Reply

    Yi Ling even said to me, “Wow, you are completely like a ‘gwai lo’ uncle.”

    That says it.

    It’s like forcing someone from [State] (sorry Jocelyn) to eat chicken feet for breakfast.

  2. Mary
    Mary March 22, 2013 at 4:00 am | | Reply

    Not only that my Chinese boyfriend is four years my junior, he is still a student (even a former student of mine, before we dated) and has never had a girlfriend before. Still he persued me with such persistance, made him look very sexy in my eyes. I liked him before, but his confidence really striked me.
    If this Chinese guy thinks he’s not good enough for her, he will not be able to persue a Western girl – or any girl, for that matter.

  3. Sveta
    Sveta March 22, 2013 at 5:16 am | | Reply

    Aww, how sad.

  4. Someone
    Someone March 22, 2013 at 5:22 am | | Reply

    You know what, I actually sympathize with Yi Ling. For someone who has lived most of his life in Asia, adapting to a western girl’s demands is difficult. It’s not just limited to language, religion, or culture, but her eventual insistence that he adopt most of her ways. She will eventually be frustrated at any differences or misunderstandings that arise. If you look at the successful AMWF bloggers who married men from Asia, the commonality is that the women were willing to adapt to an Asian way of life and even learn some of the language.

    Finding a western girl who grew up internationally in Asia (maybe the daughter of a media mogul based in Singapore, or a banking family in HK) is a better bet.

  5. Holly(Jiaqi)
    Holly(Jiaqi) March 22, 2013 at 6:03 am | | Reply

    I wish his nephew had chosen that path and dated those 4 women.
    Some Chinese are open to dating other women, but not so much with all.
    thanks for sharing this story.

  6. David
    David March 22, 2013 at 7:12 am | | Reply

    Some folks are plain afraid and with good reason!

  7. Bruce
    Bruce March 22, 2013 at 9:21 am | | Reply

    I wish I had an uncle who would hook me up when I was single. Damn you lucky ass !!!!Now you know why “most” asian/chinese man will not chase/date or even attempt to ask western women for dates. The mentality of chinese people is alway think about marriage ,marriage, marriage! Dating must leads to marriage ( Chinese thinkings).

  8. Fred
    Fred March 22, 2013 at 12:05 pm | | Reply

    @ everyone. I am so sorry to say it but my cowardly nephew (Yew) brought me some embarrassment when I tell others this story. But I felt this story should be told so that others will not follow his cowardice.

    @ Bruce. I also wished that I had an uncle like myself when I was younger and who would set me up with girls. So, I was trying to do that which I did not receive when I was young to help my nephew. But in the end, his cowardice is what stopped him from having success.

  9. Barbara
    Barbara March 22, 2013 at 1:12 pm | | Reply

    Okay, this is really weird to me. I live in Shenzhen, visit Hongkong often and I’ve seen really many AMWF couples there. It’s completely natural, nobody stares at them and so on. So I’m really surprised by this story.
    In the mainland it’s a different story. Basically, when people here see me and my bf together they assume that he’s not Chinese (for example, at a bus stop: my bf and I were looking at the bus schedule and there was one guy sitting there. He looked at us and asked reallyyy sloooowly and clearly in chinese where we want to go. So my bf told him where we are going and asked if he know which bus we should take. The guy: “Your chinese is very good. Do you also know chinese characters?” Or in our building. We keep our bicycles downstairs and, because I’m the only foreigner living here, everyone knows which bicycle is mine and which is my bf’s. One day my bf found a note in English from one of our neighbours attached to his bike “I’d like to practice my English so if you or your girlfriend would like to learn Chinese, please let me know, I live at the 6th floor…”). Then, when people already know that he’s Chinese, they think that he’s everything but not my bf. So during my parents visit we’ve heard people saying “oh, he must be their interpreter/guide/student”. This is really sad. In fact, there are so many mixed couples here.
    Another problem is the chinese attitude to a social status and all the material things. Many guys here think that a Chinese girl would never date them if they don’t have a house and a car so it must mean that foreign girls want God-knows-what. Recently my bf and his brother-in-law were trying to get a visa to Poland cause they wanted to go there with me in May. They thought that it will be easier to get the visa through a chinese tourist agency. Every time they talked to a guy in the agency it was getting more and more complicated and I was thinking “come on, it can’t be THAT difficult for a Chinese person to get a visa to POLAND”. So yesterday my bf told me that the guy in the agency told him that it’ll be difficult to get the visa for him cause he doesn’t have a house and a car. I know that the polish embassy totally doesn’t give a s…t about these so I asked “Did you tell him that you have a Polish gf?”. “Yes”. And then I called the embassy in Beijing and explained the situation, asked if my bf should have a house and a car to get the visa and they were like “whaaaat?… just go to the consulate in Guangzhou with all the documents, it won’t be a problem…” I can’t really believe that this guy in the agency was so jealous that another guy with a lower salary, without a house and a car CAN have a foreign gf that he tried to put my bf down for all this time. Pathetic.
    Funny thing is that only Chinese men have this kind of attitude. But Chinese women around us (like our landlady, the shop assistants) not only know that we are together with my bf, they simply assume that we are already married and it’s completely natural to them.
    So, Chinese guys: rise your ego! For foreign girls with Chinese boyfriends it’s really frustraiting sometimes…

  10. Jason
    Jason March 22, 2013 at 2:12 pm | | Reply

    Differences are just a pile of nonsense people put in their heads. Most of people in the world have more similarities than differences.

    Just what differences are there??

    They both came out of their mothers did they not?

    They’re both human beings are they not?

    They both eat, sleep, drink, talk, shit, watch TV do they not??

    They both get sad, happy, angry, frustrated, hopeful, elated do they not?

    So he grew up watching HK movies instead of Hollywood movies…so what…HK movies are exactly like Hollywood movies these days…instead of having bunch of white guys running around it’s a bunch of Chinese guys.

    And the thing about Chinese not showing affection in public is nonsense, that has nothing to do with if you’re Chinese or not. They’re not robots, they’re human beings, it’s human impossible for them to show affection?? Why would they die if they show affection? It’s all nonsense they put in their heads.

  11. Bruce
    Bruce March 22, 2013 at 2:12 pm | | Reply

    Barbara,

    I’m glad that you’ve called to confirm because Chinese gov’t policies suck!! Even laws are passed at the federal level, local gov’t depts don’t freaking follow. Chinese gov’t worries that you might run away to Poland and never come back. The guy at the agency is soo stupid man!! You mean with a house and car people don’t run away? Seriously! If I have 10 houses in China , I will still run away if I don’t like the country. Yup jealousy is everywhere. Anything is possible nowadays.

  12. askdsk
    askdsk March 22, 2013 at 3:07 pm | | Reply

    I sympathize with your nephew’s ideas. I don’t think it is common to show public affections among locals in Hong Kong. Mainland cities like Shanghai are where you will be surprised these days.

    Sometimes you need to take chances. Unfortunately, too many Asians are very conservative. Your nephew did what he sees to his best interests in this case.

  13. Fred
    Fred March 22, 2013 at 3:50 pm | | Reply

    @Barbara. Thanks for sharing your experience in Shenzhen, PRC. How did a white Polish girl like yourself end up in China? You deserve high praises for willing to be the girlfriend of a Chinese man when so few Western girls are willing to give us Chinese men a chance.

  14. askdsk
    askdsk March 22, 2013 at 4:08 pm | | Reply

    I’d like to see the discourses changed.
    What do you mean when saying “few western girls are willing to give us a chance”? No offense. Your nephew probably saved his face or embarrassment. But I don’t see how that is a failure as most people are trying to say. Relationship has to be based on equal terms.
    People seriously think there will be something coming out of going on a few dates arranged like that. Some fun maybe. I know plenty of Asian men are not up for that kind of adventure and rightly so.

  15. Manny
    Manny March 22, 2013 at 4:52 pm | | Reply

    Wow, I cannot believe that his Chinese boy Yew refused to try dating any one of these pretty white girls. Prior to getting myself a Chinese girlfriend, I often fantisized about having one Chinese woman after another. All I could do was to fantisize and only fantisize and nothing more. Now I made it a reality by having myself a pretty Chinese goddess (but not 4 of them). What is wrong with Chinese men anyway? I have seen AM/WW couples before but they are few and far in between. But the converse (WM/AW) is very frequent. I have often wondered what is wrong with Asian men (or Chinese men). Are they prejudiced toward dating us Whites or other races? Jocelyn attempted to explain in her blog about why few Chinese men are willing to give a Western woman a chance, but I have often wondered how valid is Jocelyn’s findings. Whenever I see an Asian boy with a White gf, I always look and think to myself: great for them!
    Although I have to say that I am sometimes surprised by some Asian boys. Last weekend, for example, we (my Chinese gf and I) could not believe our eyes. I saw this super, super beautiful blond haired blue eyed white girl with a shorter very nerdy looking Asian boy wearing glasses walking in together and later sitting together at Starbucks. Although, I as a white boy, do not generally find white girls attractive unlike I find Asian women to be such, I have to say that this super beautiful blond haired, blue eyed girl even caused me to glance at her. I am certain that others in Starbucks also glanced at her as well. My Chinese gf and I at first thought they must have been either co-workers or perhaps fellow classmates as we were near the college of my gf. Then suddenly I saw the super beautiful blond girl and the nerdy Asian boy kiss passionately. They were very tactile and loving. They embraced at the table laughing and enjoying being in love. I thought to myself, how could a super blond like herself be with a shorter nerdy Asian boy whose stature exemplified a computer geek? He was skinny, shorter, wearing glasses and plainly dressed. His body was in no way prepossessing, unlike the blond he was with. The blond girl was taller, slim, and curvacious wearing a low cut skirt. I swear that the blond was in super model shape, unlike the Asian boy nerd. My Chinese gf and I were in total disbelief. My initial thought was: what happened? What is wrong with the white girl? Can she not get herself a better looking guy? Does she have “yellow fever” like I do? I said to myself: here is this Asian boy who exemplied the typical weakling nerd remeniscent of how Hollywood movies portrayed Asian men especially the Japanese in WWII. I have seen some of these old WWII movies and immediately this Asian boy reminded me of them. I later chuckled and said to myself: great for them.
    I never saw this couple again but I am very happy for them. So, I think that Yew could easily have been this nerdy Asian boy and walk hand-in-hand with a super pretty white girl if he only were brave enough.

  16. Jason
    Jason March 22, 2013 at 5:00 pm | | Reply

    “His nephew probably saved himself from embarrassment”

    What the hell does that mean? You don’t know his nephew….you just assumed you know what he’s like huh? Like you assume how millions of other Chinese people are like? Get that nonsense outta here.

  17. centaur
    centaur March 22, 2013 at 5:07 pm | | Reply

    Really? Come on folks, let’s be real. Is Fred’s story all that surprising? Hooking up a local HK IT guy who’s still single at 39 with four white women in the US, two of which are lawyers (who are more likely type-A’s)? I’m sorry to say this but it might be a good thing that Yew didn’t come, because otherwise he might otherwise have ruined those white women’s impression on Asian men.

    Fred, Bruce, and all my other fellow countrymen who date/marry western women, you are the alpha males among Chinese men. Yes we all know that the view is better here, but we can’t expect every other Chinese guy to be an alpha too. You are an alpha because of who you are, and that cannot be learned and taught.

  18. Fred
    Fred March 22, 2013 at 5:10 pm | | Reply

    @Askdsk. Here is the answer to your question. You asked: “what do you mean when saying ‘few western girls are willing to give us a chance?'” Well, I am speaking from experience and from what other fellow Asian men have told me. When I was much younger I only wanted to date Chinese girls, but later when I changed my mind and was willing to date Western girls, I tried to chase some of those pretty Western girls only to be turned me down time and time again. So, I went for a Brazilian girl and “scored.” So, when I say that few western girls are willing to give us Chinese boys a chance, I believe my opinion is valid as I am speaking from personal experience. I have also some Asian male friends whose experiences were similar to mine. Now I am married to my Brazilian hotty. I hope this answers your question.

  19. askdsk
    askdsk March 22, 2013 at 5:17 pm | | Reply

    @Jason
    If I change my wording to “he probably saved himself of being embarrassed”, does that suit your ego better? I worked with quite a few people from Hong Kong.
    To me, Fred’s post showed rejections of cultural values for the most part. You are right about one thing- the actual needs from a true relationship is no difference when you date outside your race. You don’t have to be so called alpha male to be worthy.

  20. askdsk
    askdsk March 22, 2013 at 5:24 pm | | Reply

    @Fred
    I already knew the answer when I asked the question.

  21. Fred
    Fred March 22, 2013 at 5:27 pm | | Reply

    @ Jason. You replied to Askdsk’s comment that “his nephew probably saved himself from embarrassment” by writing that he (Askdsk) made certain assumptions about Chinese men and to rid himself of the nonsense. I have to concur with you. Askdsk does not know whether embarrassment will occur if Yew and these 4 American girls meet and date. After all, I knew very little about Brazilian women and I took the chance and flew to Brazil to ask for her hand to marry. I had no embarrassment and none resulted. Only success happened. I was trying to replicate the level of happiness for my nephew. I think that nothing can be gained if no efforts are made.

    @ Askdsk. If one were to think in terms of avoiding embarrassment, then this type of thinking will inevitably prevent you from reaching successes in life. So, I have to agree with Jason that you should not think in terms of avoiding embarrassment as the reason to no do things. However, if the risks, dangers and costs are too high, then I can understand the mentality of avoiding the embarrassment as the reason for not going forward. But in Yew’s case, he had low risks and low costs. I offered him my place to stay, I will offered to introduce these 4 girls to him and to translate for him since his English is not too good. He would have had to buy only an airline ticket and have some spending money only. The rest I was going to take care of for him. He earned a decent wage as an I.T. guy in H.K. Thus, he can fend for himself quite well.

  22. askdsk
    askdsk March 22, 2013 at 5:28 pm | | Reply

    @centaur
    It is pathetic to let such dating define a man. Bruce is all white washed and claim to be Chinese at the same time. A big joke.

  23. Fred
    Fred March 22, 2013 at 5:30 pm | | Reply

    @ Askdsk. You wrote: “I already knew the answer when I asked the question.” If you already knew the answer, then why did you ask a question which you knew the answer to?

  24. askdsk
    askdsk March 22, 2013 at 5:33 pm | | Reply

    @Fred
    I was trying to make a point the rhetoric already downgrade yourself.

  25. Fred
    Fred March 22, 2013 at 5:37 pm | | Reply

    @Centaur. You wrote that it was good thing that Yew did not come to the U.S. or otherwise he might have ruined the impression of Chinese men in the eyes of the American girls.

    I reply to you by writing that you should not think so negatively. You do not know what these girls are thinking and you do not know the outcome. Thus you cannot competently expression an opinion on whether my nephew would have or would not have ruined the impression of Asian men in the eyes of these 4 white girls. I am perhaps biased (i.e. defending my nephew) due to our consanguinity as we are relatives, but the truth of the matter is that no one can say what will happen, and thus I resent comments that he (Yew) would have ruined it for other Asian men. We should stick to facts and not baseless predictions of outcomes. A little bit of positive encouragement will go a long way. All the best to you, bro.

  26. Fred
    Fred March 22, 2013 at 5:45 pm | | Reply

    @Manny. Great story. I think many Asian boys who like Western women would have loved to be in the shoes of that nerdy Asian geek with the super beautiful blond.

  27. askdsk
    askdsk March 22, 2013 at 6:00 pm | | Reply

    @Fred
    Are you sure you understand your nephew’s perspectives? I don’t know the guy, but I feel I know the guy to a certain degree. I say what I think it is. I am sure plenty of people will come out and say they are different from that nerdy guy in HK. To prove what point? That part often puzzles me.

    I can challenge the assumption fortune favors the bold. It depends on where you are.

    @Babara
    It is possible the guy who told you the visa requirements does not know all the information, but not trying to make it difficult. Most countries require Chinese nationals to prove job and assets.

  28. centaur
    centaur March 22, 2013 at 6:26 pm | | Reply

    @Fred, you are more of an alpha than your nephew, I don’t think anyone can argue with that, right? You pursued the beautiful ones and got rejected, and then you went after your Brazilian beauty and scored. That itself is the trait of an alpha — you don’t back down until you score. I doubt your nephew would have the heart to go on to a second date if he got bad reviews on the first one. Yes, I am making a judgment based on my assumptions, but the fact that (1) Yew refused not once, but twice, to meet the white women you set up for him; (2) he is still single at the age of 39 (we all know how Chinese parents try to hook them up with potential wives/husbands when they are 25 or 30); and (3) he himself told you that he felt he could not match up to those women; lead to my conclusion. My guess is, that even if you sit him in front of one of the women, he probably wouldn’t know what to say, how to move, or where to look. I am sorry, Fred, but you just can’t turn your nephew into an alpha over night.

    @askdsk: so you like to define people with “pathetic,” “plain stupid,” “big joke.” How would you like to be defined yourself?

  29. askdsk
    askdsk March 22, 2013 at 6:27 pm | | Reply

    @Manny
    Your language is borderline racist. I don’t know what is wrong with your Chinese girlfriend to be with you.
    It is more disturbing Asians themselves give you thumb up. Something is wrong.

  30. askdsk
    askdsk March 22, 2013 at 6:37 pm | | Reply

    @ centaur
    I have a different world view than yours.

  31. Susan Blumberg-Kason
    Susan Blumberg-Kason March 22, 2013 at 7:23 pm | | Reply

    I can understand why Yew felt uncomfortable. I think Chinese men in Hong Kong are very traditional and might not be so open to dating foreigners. I found that to be the case when I lived there. In China it was different, maybe because it was such a novelty. Hong Kong people are used to being around foreigners, but that hasn’t always been the case in China. I hope Yew will find true love.

  32. forest
    forest March 22, 2013 at 7:43 pm | | Reply

    I kind of agree with @centaur. White girls are actually easier to connect with than Asian girls in my opinion. Yew does not seem to have much of self-esteem.

  33. Sam
    Sam March 22, 2013 at 7:45 pm | | Reply

    give this guy Yew a break. if that’s what he thinks, then its his business, not ours.

  34. Bint
    Bint March 22, 2013 at 9:16 pm | | Reply

    For what it’s worth,
    Since I’ve spent a considerable amount of time in US, it’s almost possible to tell (80% of the time) just by looking at the looks of the American Born Chinese girls who’re gonna hook up with Caucasian dudes.

    Among those Asian Female/White Male couples, about 5% of them is outliers where you’d see a very handsome stud Caucasian guy with a pretty cute Asian girl. The rest 95% constitute skinny Caucasian guys (be it 6 foot tall, they appear lanky) with homely looking Asian girls. Besides, for those out there wondering if all Asians do have slanted eyes. Yes, look at those Asian Female/White Male couples. Oh by the way, check upon Taylor Swift if you don’t know how slanty eyes look like. Those 95% of them will show you exactly how Caucasian males can’t even differentiate pretty Asian girl and homely looking girl. It’s called Yellow Fetish. As long as skin tone is yellow, they’re fine with it. That mindset goes both way. As long as skin tone is white, they’re ok to be hooked up with too. Oh well… The whole world is crazy. Life is unfair. Get used to it. You may or may not believe what I said. Perhaps somebody might argue I’m crying foul.

    I do have a Caucasian colleague who has an Asian girlfriend. He’s like most friendliest guy I’ve ever met among White guys. His presence during lunch is joy of the day. His girlfriend is also very nice. I told the girl “You must be a luckiest girl in the world”. Not because she’s got a white person, but because he’s a great guy. The way he makes people laugh and he’s also very hard-working.

    And I also come across a Caucasian douchebag who has a Chinese girlfriend from China. He’s like 5’6” tall. His girlfriend follows him like a poodle, looks up him like there’s only one God in her heart, listens to him whatever he says. Apparently it works for both of them. Yes, in life, who cares if you and your partner is making the best out of your lives. But in reality, we’re not living alone. We’re surrounded by people. Of course if he’s a douchebag to her, he wouldn’t even have gotten her in the first place. Do I care? Of course not. The problem is majority of Asian Female/White Males couples make up those types most of the time.

    On the other hand, Asian Male/White Female couples, it’s a rarity to see, but when you do, it’s more likely White females are beautiful and Asian guys are good looking. Of course there are nerd-looking short Asian guy with a white girlfriend. Whatever the case is, I got the impression that Asian guy from such couple tend to be humble and gentle when it comes to passing by or coming across with other Asian guys, for eg. like me. It’s totally different from Asian Female/White Male couple, where you’re most likely to come across some arrogant White dudes proudly hugging a tiny waist of his Asian girlfriend and definitely looking like a douchie.

    And for those out there, just because you don’t have a white girlfriend/boyfriend doesn’t mean you’re missing something in life. Not because I don’t have a white girlfriend doesn’t mean I’m not adventurous, I’m not open-minded. Only when I’m against those interracial marriage, [WHICH I AM NOT], one can claim as racist. I’m perfectly fine with my chinese girlfriend. We both have same ambition in life. We both have struggled together. We both have supports for each other. Maybe if there is one female who clicks with me at almost all levels, I might have hooked up with her no matter how white/yellow/black/brown her skin tone is. I’m happy with my girlfriend. And I would say almost all Chinese couples would be happy with their partners too. Otherwise, we would be seeing 1.4 Billion China coming up with a lot of rapes news as coming from India.

    And well…. 200 years of British Empire building up White power, making English as international language and Americans easily swooped in and claims as White power for half a century, extending the same language with slight modification, we might as well wait (my next generation) another 250 years, and then we’ll see if White guys still can pick up Chinese girls with “ni hao ma?/ 你好吗?” with a strong English-accented tone. Go to the social setting where all Chinese relatives, friends chatting like there’s a knife fighting on the table, and the White dudes would be smiling and crackling. And then we would come up with stereotypes for Whites as “shy, and timid”. And we’ll be laughing in their back how bad their Chinese accent is.

    Like, one of my Caucasian female coworkers used to say “I don’t fu*king understand what he is saying” since she’s from New Jersey. [Note: New Jersey is known to express their feeling quite well.] There would be one day 我真的不明白这个神经病说的话 expression we’ll be hearing.

  35. Rdm
    Rdm March 22, 2013 at 9:21 pm | | Reply

    @askdsk,

    If you remember, Manny is the guy who is willingly offerring his two younger sisters to sleep with Asian guys in other posts. And I’m the one who’s always against Manny’s weird story. And Manny and Bruce will exchange their sexual life together in Jocelyn’s blogs like there’s no tomorrow.

    And for some who just happens to read his story will give him thumbs up too.

  36. Rosalie Zhao
    Rosalie Zhao March 23, 2013 at 6:13 am | | Reply

    @Barbara, My Chinese husband is also sometimes thought to be a foreigner by locals, though to be fair he does dress rather American and maybe doesn’t look like a typical Han Chinese. As for the visa, I’ve dealt with getting my husband a Schengen visa (for the EU) and it is not easy for Chinese people who don’t have a lot of assets or haven’t been to western country in the past. Perhaps things are starting to relax, but I wouldn’t be offended by the guy at the agency.

  37. Laura
    Laura March 23, 2013 at 8:14 am | | Reply

    @Barbara,
    It happened to us many times that they also think he is American or a translator. Last time was 4h ago in Suzhou when we were buying shoes for his nephew and the woman asked him if he could understand her. Afterwards she did a mistake and assumed that my boyfriend was married to his sister and for some reason that I will never understand that he was my translator. So the situation was: a western with a translator to buy shoes for another person, a sister married to her own brother and a local who according to them was American..haahhaha

    @ Fred,
    I don´t know your nephew but for example in my case, I would never let anyone organize a blind date, or a normal date, for me. I believe that a good date comes up thanks to a good crush or a good short conversation that is followed by proposing a dinner, coffee, or other social activities. So is not only about people from Hong Kong, I don´t think any of my friends would ever accept that situation either. Though I can see your intentions were good but in fact when people brings to the table topics of that kind (find a girlfriend, marriage, kids) is kind of embarrasing cause they are trying to push you to do something you don´t want / don´t want to discuss / can´t get / is private.

    Maybe your nephew was also thinking that if 1 of those 4 awesome American women is the one they need to organize a cross-borders relationship. Is he / she willing to rellocate? Honestly, the older you are, the more time you spend by your own, the less you like to change your life for other people, less flexibility and more afraid of changes in your daily life.

  38. Bruce
    Bruce March 23, 2013 at 8:31 am | | Reply

    Good morning!!!!!!!!I’m back again !!!!! It’s saturday morning and I’m at my office working like an ox.

    I’m above alpha male level right now. It’s called the ULTIMATE LEVEL. Even both alpha and beta males listen to me now hehhehehhahhahah lmao 🙂 at 9 am saturday. I’m 110% not white brainwashed. I still keep my chinese traditions like respecting the elderly, taking care of my mom, having other chinese hobbies ( huge collections of bonsai and high quality koi fish , zen garden). I only drink tea. Yes, I’m a hunter, a hardcore fisherman ( my father was a hunter) and I do bodybuilding 1 hr a day 6 times a week ( just to maintain my muscular body. used to be a skinny ass!!! 🙁 ) . I love to fix things like all leaks in the house and I can remove car engines if I want to . I like to help people in general. Am I still white brainwashed now boy???

    I usually like honest people and good hearted people. Manny can be anybody regardless of his race , I will still help. If you have good intentions, you’re like just Chinese to me. If I’m single right now as a chinese man and no women would give me a chance, they will regret for the rest of their lives . Some women just look at the first impression and determine that ” oh he is handsome, he is my soulmate” later on , they meet at divorce court. I’m the type of men that matured like red wine and make your taste buds sizzling with joys with age . I’ll stimulate your boring mind just like giving you an orgasm. I’m telling you now that I’m the hardest working person there is out there. I’m very committed to my families and friends . Im open minded at every levels . Now back to my exciting job. I’m smoking this keyboard.

  39. Fred
    Fred March 23, 2013 at 10:31 pm | | Reply

    @ Susan Blumberg-Kason. When you were in H.K. studying, did you try to date some local Chinese men? Or you were only passively observing and made no efforts? If you made a conscious effort, can you supply me with the details.
    Since you married and later divorced your mainland Chinese man and remarried a White man, were you disgusted at Chinese men and hence this disgust led you to marry your current American Husband?
    By they way, is your book available at Barnes and Nobles? I think I would like to buy it and read it. How much is it by the way?

  40. Fred
    Fred March 23, 2013 at 10:41 pm | | Reply

    @ Laura. Perhaps you are correct that my nephew Yew did not want anyone to organize a blind date just as you are reluctant to go out on a blind date. But I was making it easy for him. I know that finding the right person is hard and thus I tried to set up 4 girls for him so as to increase his probability of success. Also, if he came to the U.S., I would not let him go out on the first date alone because the girl may fear him and he may fear her. I was going to have them both come to my house for dinner and spend some time together along with my wife, I and children. Then if they still need more time, they can once again meet at my house as I know the girls and I know my nephew and they should feel comfortable with me being present. Then after they develop some level of comfort, then they can go out alone. Thus, I had already taken into account the fear factor and the shyness factor. Of course, it required both sides to take a leap of faith to meet each other. These 4 U.S. girls were brave and were not prejudiced and were willing to give a “yellow” man a chance. You see how brave the Americans are compared to my cowardly nephew. I think many Chinese men from China (born, bred and raised there) are cowards when it comes to dating Western girls. Don’t you think?

  41. Laura
    Laura March 23, 2013 at 10:47 pm | | Reply

    @Bruce,
    I read your comment and is a bit confusing. When you say you are now white brainwashed and you mention: respecting the elderly, taking care of my mom…Isn´t that a bit ..weird to you?
    I bet there are many white who respect the elderly and take care of their mom. I would not say that it makes you not white brainwashed, it just makes you a good person.
    Nothing to do with white brainwashed, if so, let´s say that was a bit racist.
    I see every day people who say something like that, that they are so traditional and they mention those factors. Then you get into the metro and you see that no one offers their seat to elderly, you need to call people and point the belly of a 8months pregnant woman so that they “pay attention to it”.
    I also hear about how much their care about their moms: “I give 1000CNY/month to my mom every month and I call her 3 times/week”, good, but most part of them go to visit their parents only once a year (if they go) and they say they don´t go twice cause during national holidays is a big mess ( I know it, but still, didn´t they say that they care of their mom?, I think if you care about your family you can handle that stress).

    Those comments freak me out, I also have a friend who says ” It is Very European to show your feet, I am a very traditional Chinese girl and I don´t show my feet (meaning she does not wear sandals)”, yeah is true she doesn´t wear sandals but she wears shorts with boots in winter with no panties.

    Do you think that not taking care of your mom, of elderly or showing your feet makes you more white? …

    I believe those adjectives make you a better person but let´s not say ” they are a chinese/american/european thing”

  42. Laura
    Laura March 23, 2013 at 10:54 pm | | Reply

    @ Fred,
    Thanks for the response! I don´t know your nephew and I can see from your comments that you do care about him. But the last thing I, personally, would want is a date at my uncle´s home.
    Let´s say that in a first date being surrounded by children and by a married couple, where one of them is my uncle, is not a dream. No private conversation, no chance to get to know each other without some pressure…
    Environment is important.
    I would not say local men with no international experience are cowards, that term is too strong. I would say they are shy or not willing to do it, that´s all. I´m European and I would not take a plane to go on 4 blind dates to US, with my uncle, and at his own place. Dates are a result of something that happened before.
    I would say Chinese men need more time to take some step. But not cowards, just a different attitude.

  43. Susan Blumberg-Kason
    Susan Blumberg-Kason March 24, 2013 at 7:27 am | | Reply

    Fred, to answer your questions, I really did try to date local Hong Kong Chinese guys. I went out with a guy I met when I was in college. He took me to dinner and movies, but only kissed me once on the cheek. He planned for us to go to Macau one weekend, but then canceled at the last minute. Even though we had known each other at that point for several years, he never introduced me to his mother. I dated another local guy that went further, but again he couldn’t tell his family about me. We could only meet on his days off or after midnight when his mother was asleep. I went out with a couple others for first dates, but they didn’t call back. I don’t blame or hate any of these guys. I think they were very traditional and probably had expectations in their families to marry local women. As for my experience with my ex-husband, I wasn’t disgusted by that or so turned off that I could only think about marrying a white guy. I guess I learned that I had to look at the person for who he is, not what he is. My ex grew up during the Cultural Revolution and was parted from his family at an early age, never to return to live with them. That seemed fascinating to me when I was 23, but it had some repercussions on our family life. My book won’t be out until Spring 2014, and it will be available at B&N. It should cost the usual paperback price, about 15 dollars. Thanks for your interest!

  44. chinaelevatorstories
    chinaelevatorstories March 24, 2013 at 8:01 am | | Reply

    I can’t agree with most of the comments here. The guy does not want to fly to the US to go on dates with these women, so what? That does neither make him a coward, nor does it mean that he is not an “alpha-male”. How come people even use this word anymore? This word is so 1984 (the book, not the year). I really don’t see how you can say some people are alpha and others are beta or gamma or whatever you’d call them. This is very degrading. People like different kinds of persons, not everyone likes your so-called alpha-person. Some people care more for inner values than for how a person looks. I’m in love with my fiancé not because he’s tall or because he has muscles or because he’s good looking. If he was only that, I would have never fallen in love with him. I love him for his inner values and these values make him the most handsome guy in my eyes.

    For some people, dating is something serious and maybe falling in love takes time and doesn’t happen on a vacation in the US.

    @Barbara: I don’t know if this is only me, but recently I’ve seen quite a few AMWF couples here in Shenzhen. Me and my fiancè often hold hands in public, so most of the time people do not mistake him as being my translator. It still happens sometimes though, leading me to think: “What kind of translator is that? Holding his client’s hands?”

  45. Bruce
    Bruce March 24, 2013 at 8:34 am | | Reply

    Laura,

    It’s not what I write that ‘s weird. It’s how you treat people and your parents, families and friends in real life is the most important. Laura, never judge on how a person comments, always judge on how he/she acts ( actions) in real life. I’ve taught my friends to look at the whole package of a person instead what he/she speaks. That’s why women fall for the wrong guys sometimes. hint hint.

    Bruce

  46. Laura
    Laura March 24, 2013 at 8:47 am | | Reply

    @Bruce,
    Thanks for the explanation. In fact I believe that words and conversations reflect a lot about someone´s personality. You are somehow saying what I said. Many people say they take care about elderly and their mom and so on but those are words not actions.
    Actions speak louder than voice but in the case of racism what people say can be harder sometimes.
    Example:
    If someone tweets a message saying that white people do not care about elderly or their moms, and that´s a yellow thing.
    Is a tweet an action or only words? …
    Writing a comment has an action behind, takes longer than just “saying it” when you write it, therefore it is an action

  47. Barbara
    Barbara March 24, 2013 at 10:44 am | | Reply

    @Fred, I really don’t think that it’s something extraordinary that I’m with a Chinese guy. Like I said, there are some AMWF couples here. I can’t say if there are many couples like us in SZ since I don’t know many foreigners here. But all of the foreign girls I’ve met here so far have Chinese boyfriends or husbands.
    Also, I seldom think of my bf as “Chinese person” and I NEVER think of him as “Asian” (just like I never think of myself as “white” or, even worst – “Caucasian”! what am I, a dog or what?). So I don’t know what you mean by “giving Chinese guys a chance”. It wasn’t about dating or not dating a “Chinese guy”, it was about dating this particular guy. Besides, what makes you think that I “gave Chinese guys a chance”? Maybe it was completely oposite – he gave a Polish girl a chance? 😉
    What am I doing here? Two years ago my works were exhibited here and I was invited to Shenzhen as an Artist-in-Residence. I’ve met this guy, we felt in love with each other. After 4 months here I went back to Poland, told my family and friends that I’m moving to China, packed and came back to Shenzhen. That’s it.
    @chinaelevatorstories: yes, I also don’t get this logic. Some people here just can’t accept it that an ordinary Chinese guy can be with a foreigner and they try to find really weird explanations sometimes.
    One evening, like a few weeks after we moved in to our current flat, I was sitting alone in front of 7-eleven, drinking a beer and watching people. Then one guy came to me, said that he has seen me around before and asked if he can join me. We started to chat and it occured that he lives next door. When I told him that I live here with my Chinese bf he said “so your bf must be very rich.” Apart from the fact that maybe I should feel offended with his assumption that I’m some kind of gold-digger, what he said really surprised me cause we live in one of those shabby villages where people play majiang dowstairs while their children urinate around. So I asked “Do you think that we would live here if any of us was rich?” My neighbour didn’t give up: “Then his parents must be very rich!” Then I felt really sorry for this guy…

  48. centaur
    centaur March 24, 2013 at 11:42 am | | Reply

    @chinaelevatorstories, Laura:

    It was not my intention to belittle the average Chinese man. I am one of them. But, inferiority complex among Chinese men is a reality. And inferiority complex is not exclusive to Chinese men. When a man is up against a woman that he believes is out of his league, he gets nervous and doesn’t know what to do. The same goes for a woman. And to many Chinese men, western women, by the virtual that they are white and therefore are automatically associated with more wealth, better education, higher standards of living, and, believe it or not, a higher sex drive, makes them feel uneasy. Laura, your encounter with your neighbor is the perfect example of such inherent inferiority complex — one must be rich to date a western girl.

    Women are intuitive and can sense this insecurity right away. Some women don’t mind it, some women may actually find it attractive, but many women are turned off when the man in front of them is not confident. Like what Mary said earlier, when she is pursued relentlessly by a student four years her junior, she finds him very sexy.

    “alpha male” might be an over-simplified term to label men with confidence, but that’s essentially the idea. A man, Chinese or not, needs to be confident to be attractive, and one can’t fake confidence. This, based on my observation, is more true in the western culture, where boldness and being forward is rewarded, whereas subtlety and being reserved is neglected, or even punished.

    BTW, @chinaelevatorstories, I think you might have mixed up “alpha male” with “big brother.”

  49. centaur
    centaur March 24, 2013 at 11:43 am | | Reply

    Sorry, it should be “Barbara” instead of “Laura” in my post above.

  50. Liara
    Liara March 24, 2013 at 4:08 pm | | Reply

    I wish a lot of asian men would build up more confidence for themselves. I understand that all cultures perceptions are different from one another but we are all human beings and no one culture is better than the other. There’s a lot of individuals out there that are curious about other cultures and willing to explore and embrace them. Chinese men are not beneath American women and I know I’m not the only one that thinks that way. More women are dating outside of their races now I know that I had been giving the impression for the longest time that Asian men are not interested in white women and so I went on thinking that way because I was never given an impression otherwise until a few years ago. I’m dating a Chinese/Japanese guy now and I’ve discussed with him what I had thought for the longest time and he corrected me and said a lot of Asian men want to date outside of their race but just believe that women aren’t interested. I say even if you get knocked down continue putting yourself out there. You never know when you could have a chance with a woman of your dreams if you don’t try. Not everyone is so focused on if you have a lot of material wealth.

  51. askdsk
    askdsk March 24, 2013 at 4:13 pm | | Reply

    I recommend sociology 101 for most Chinese men. Also, you need to be closer to your culture root to be truly confident.
    American ideas of individual success and risk taking makes preserving culture values difficult. But you can find your own way.

    I myself do not feel inferior because I look America in a more critical way with my own Chinese upbringing. You don’t need to romanticize either side – Chinese or America. You feel inferior only when you are made so. Overcoming barriers is a way of life. But it has its own rewards in the process.

  52. Laura
    Laura March 24, 2013 at 5:20 pm | | Reply

    @Barbara,
    Thanks for the explanation, that´s exactly what I had in mind! In fact the other day when a friend was talking about finding someone for her that´s basically what I said. Cause she only talks about finding a French / Spanish man that´s the only adjective I know about her potential partner. So I suggested she stops looking for a Nationality instead of a personality. But she was a bit confused.

    @centaur,
    Thansk for the correction, and nice explanation to Barbara. I think the explanation you gave to Barbara about her neighbour is the right one, he has chosen to talk about money instead of other adjective to show his interest but I think he was just trying to show that Barbara´s partner is different somehow.

    @Fred,
    I was thinking about your efforts and your nephew. After all, even though you live in US, maybe you are still very traditional, in a Chinese way. Maybe you don´t realize but with your efforts you are trying to arrange a marriage between your nephew and American women, same as old times ( but they are from US, only one word is different, American). The main point is that you worry about him because of his age and you arranged dates.
    I asked my dad, he said: maybe cowards are those who can´t face or imagine themselves living “alone” and they just get together to fix the issue.
    Interesting point of view.

    @askdsk,
    That´s a great suggestion. Being critical is not something everyone can do. I am critical, I like to question everything and therefore I am sometimes critical about some topics my dad will never understand.
    Example:
    – Situation: Conversation about China
    Comments: Lots of negative comments about freedoom of speech that lead to lots of negative feedbacks which are not even linked to the topic. But leave China in a bad situation. Some of the topics come from people who has never been to China
    Me, After a while: Well, I understand your point of view. But do you really think you do have freedoom of speech? Or that´s what they made you believe? Going to the streets to fight for your rights (employment, healthcare, minimum wages,..) in a pacific way and as a response police will come and hit you is not exactly what I call freedoom of speech.

    Situation afterwards: Changed, how can I say something like that about my own country? Am I brain-washed?

    I am not brain-washed, I am just realistic, any country is perfect, my country is not perfect, China is not perfect either, but hey I like both of them.
    I still face that my family does not like it or understand it, but I believe every time I am able to see those differences I grow as a person.

  53. askdsk
    askdsk March 24, 2013 at 5:40 pm | | Reply

    @ Laura
    I think it is better to understand the world from more than one point of view.

    @Babara
    Because US has melted all Europeans into one pot and defined them as white, I am also being defined as Asian. It is another American thing you don’t need to take too seriously.

  54. forest
    forest March 24, 2013 at 11:03 pm | | Reply

    @askdsk @Laura – Do you feel you have identity issue like I do ? I am not sure that I am Chinese American or American Chinese… Seeing the world from multiple angles really make me drifted away from the norm of both sides.
    @Barbara – agree couples are two people together. Race, money, and culture should not be THE factor, only love is.

  55. Laura
    Laura March 24, 2013 at 11:11 pm | | Reply

    @forest,
    Is not my case, I live overseas since 2008, not so long ago. I´m 25 years old now, I guess I will feel like you in some years, after living abroad for a decade or more. I have spent most part of my life in my home country.
    I feel Spanish.

  56. centaur
    centaur March 25, 2013 at 12:46 am | | Reply

    @forest:

    We are social animals, and our happiness largely depends on our relationship with the people around us. However, we can’t build our happiness solely on how other people perceive us. Each person is different, and so is what makes him/her happy. Why do you feel you have to have a categorized “identity” at all? Don’t we all have our own system of defining what is important to us, what makes us happy? What does “Chinese American” or “American Chinese” even mean? And how dare anyone pretend to know you by slapping that label on you?

  57. mira
    mira March 25, 2013 at 1:10 am | | Reply

    @centaura totally agree with you…defining ourselves is for the purpose of others who need/must/want to know ( rightly or wrongly) because in their minds “no way can you be blah,blah….if you look like blah, blah” so it has to be explained to the so it can ease their mind and curiosity.

    I have a similar story to that of Yew my Chinese friends parents who look at me as their adoptive daughter thought it would be a nice idea if they found a suitor for me. So in the old Chinese “match making way” they spoke to friends and neighbours to see if there were any nice, eligible Chinese men interested in going on a blind date.

    My friends parents are in their 70’s and live in Hangzhou, through their neighbours they heard about an eligible man in his late 40’s whose parents were also looking for a “nice girl” for their son.

    My friends parents contacted my friend who then contacted me to see if I was interested in a blind date, I was intrigued because I’ve always wanted to know/see how these match making dates pan out so I said yes to the date. My friends parent’s then obtained the phone number to this man’s parents they called them and explained to them who they were and the purpose of their call.

    A few days later my friend confirmed that he (my blind date) said yes to our meeting. The only problem was that neither of us spoke each other’s language however that problem was soon solved because my Chinese friend was accompanying me to this date ( as a translator but also to report back to her parents) and his younger brother who spoke English was accompanying him.

    It was actually a nice “date” we got to know each other through our translators, all 4 of us had a nice time laughing and chatting with each other. Nothing eventuated between him and me ( different likes, different tastes) but we remained friends. We took a leap into the unknown because we were both open to the possibilities.

  58. Scotchaholic
    Scotchaholic March 25, 2013 at 4:11 am | | Reply

    Fred, I commend you for helping out. It’s too bad your nephew did’nt consider the offer.

    ‘Alpha’ traits are the driving force behind successful long term relationships. Open mindedness, a sense of adventure, curiosity, humor, assertiveness, and pursuits of information (culture outside one’s own), only comprise some of the traits that are needed to even dare meet a person of the opposite sex.

    Mixed relationships demand higher sensitivity, patience, problem solving, and self-confidence that is very hard to induce- which is needed to face the ignorance and biases of others. If a person is too passive to date of ones’ own race, dating outside that race will be a monolithically epic barrier. Fred, you and the other couples here who have posted, have destroyed those barriers. Whether you want to admit or not, you are ‘alpha’.

    Breaking racial, ethnic, cultural, and national norms are alpha. Being part of the flock and fitting in is other than alpha. I’m sure that some mainlanders would take offense of someone Chinese marrying Japanese. It would’nt suprise me with the history of these countries.

    Back on point- your nephew will determine his own joys in life. If there is strong urge to have a life partner and children, he will it make so. Hey you never know, some women are very forward nowadays- they might ‘club’ him and drag him back to the cave. Best wishes.

  59. chinaelevatorstories
    chinaelevatorstories March 25, 2013 at 6:59 am | | Reply

    @centaur: Sorry, mixed up the titles, I didn’t mean 1984 but Brave New World instead. Not talking about big brother, but talking about categorizing people into alpha, beta, or whatever, which to me sounds like you are saying that alpha-males are better than the rest. What exactly do you mean by alpha-males? Is this a common categorization in the US? I still think that this kind of categorization is degrading. Who defines which traits are better than others?

  60. askdsk
    askdsk March 25, 2013 at 7:19 am | | Reply

    @Forest
    I think it is normal to feel uneasy because you don’t seem to fit into just one place. But it is also an asset to be able to relate to different people and cultures.
    I spent my formative years in China. So I am essentially Chinese with a good understand of its history, language and culture. Living in US gives me the perspectives of how assimilation works and what is lost in the process. In fact, this idea of shedding all your past and start over has its historical reasons. It does not apply to many immigrants or their children anymore. I find people who are most happy once they have good ties to culture roots no matter you are first, second or third generations.
    You have to be comfortable with your identity even when external forces seem to go against you. Common assumption suggests it needs to be a hard won battle, which is absurd to me.

  61. Fred
    Fred March 25, 2013 at 11:36 am | | Reply

    @Barbara. Thanks for sharing part of your story about why you are living in Shenzhen, Republic of China (or People’s Repbulic of China — if you are communist). You certainly made me chuckle and gave me a new perspective. When I praised you (the Polish girl) for giving an ordinary Chinese man a chance, you replied by saying maybe it was the Chinese man who gave the Polish girl a chance. I never looked at it that way before. You certainly opened my eyes and made me realize that there is more than one way to dissect a fact. So, I still must praise you (the Polish girl) for your greatness.
    Why do you not post your story here just as I did and tell us in detail how you met this ordinary Chinese man and fell in love with him? I would love to hear all the dirty juicy details. Please, I implore you to do so. In the meantime, I thank you and wait patiently for your reply.

  62. Fred
    Fred March 25, 2013 at 11:55 am | | Reply

    @ everyone here. I cannot believe that this simple story has generated so much heated discussion and so much controversy. I simply intended to tell the story of my “cowardly” newphew as an example of someone not to follow, while simultaneously injecting some humor into the story for all of you to enjoy. Instead, I received praises which I enjoyed, but I also took a lot criticisms and was lambasted by some of you for trying to force westernism on my traditional Chinese nephew. Believe me, I was just trying to tell a simple story based on truth but little did I anticipate so much emotions would be generated here. I have now learned my lesson that trying to encourage Chinese men with a strong traditonal mindset to date western women is not the best of ideas, because it takes more or less a maverick to do so.
    I must state for the record that I, a Chinese man who was raised in North American, have more of a westernized mentality and have no problems going with American girls or girls of the Western culture. I have no problems kissing in public or even putting my hand on my wife’s ass in public. But now I know that I cannot force the western ways on the Chinese men.

  63. Fred
    Fred March 25, 2013 at 12:25 pm | | Reply

    @ all of you. I have another story for all of you and I do not think that Jocelyn will publish it because it is about Western man & Asian (Chinese) woman. Jocelyn’s site is strictly reserved for AM/WW. So, here is the story which is again based on truth.
    I have a friend (White male) at age 53 now named Peter B. He loves Asian women. When he was younger in his 20’s he taught English in Japan where he met and played with many Japanee girls (according to him) and eventually he married a Japanese woman. Later they both immigrated to the U.S. in the early 1990’s. He was doing well financially in U.S. She, however, later developed some mental condition called schizophrenia which marred their marriage. When he was at work, many times she would not take her medications and scream; so their neighbors called him to come home to attend to her needs. The employer would initally allow him to leave early but when this happened too many times, the employer could not accept him leaving so many times. So, the employer eventually fired him. This process would happen at every job. Eventually he got tired and divorced her at the height of the recession. After his divorce, he had tremendous difficulties finding for a job here in the U.S. In fact he was not working for several years except for the odd jobs here and there. So, what did he decide to do? TEACH IN CHINA!!!!!! This is exactly what Jocelyn Eikenburg did and where she found the love her life.
    So, in December 2012, he began his job search. In Jan 2013, he signed the contract. In early Feb. 2013 he secured his visa. On Feb. 13, 2013 he took off on flight via Southern China Airlines and on Feb. 14, 2013 he arrived in Shenzhen, China, where he now resides and teaches at Shenzhen Senior High School located at 8 Zetian Road. The school gives him a decent wage, a free apartment to live, free breakfast and lunch during school days, and if he wants a dinner for only $2.50 U.S. Then guess what? Last week, he told me that he just met a young 23-year old Chinese girl and emailed me saying that he will take her out for the weekend.
    he called me several times to report the details but I missed his call which went to voicemail. So, once I get the details I will be happy to supply them to all of you who are interested in WM/AF cases.

    You see!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Many Chinese women have no problems (in general) dating Western men. When I tell others this story, no one criticizes me or lambasts me for telling this story. It seems that when I try to make a case of AM/WW such as my nephew’s case, I take an inordinate amount of criticisms and get lambasted by others. I truly do not understand why the controversy when I tell the story of my nephew but yet there is no controvesy about my friend Peter’s love and pursuit of Asian female beauties. Can someoen explain this to me to help me better understand things. Thanks.

  64. Jason
    Jason March 25, 2013 at 1:17 pm | | Reply

    Well you shouldn’t care what these other posters think.

    I don’t quite understand why they have to say negative things about your cousin or you for trying to set them up either, and I certainly don’t understand what it has to do with Chinese people in general.

    And to all you other posters, maybe, just maybe that his cousin could care less about being single, maybe he could care less about dating Western women, you guys ever thought of that?? You guys just assumed that his cousin was a white-obsessed dude who was scared huh….

    Also, Chinese men (or any guy) can date Western women, even if they have never studied abroad, even if they don’t speak English….there are many ways it can work (one of them being that the female can speak Chinese). The female posters who posted in this thread has proved that.

    As long as they’re happy that’s the most important thing, nothing else matters.

  65. Fred
    Fred March 25, 2013 at 1:37 pm | | Reply

    @ Susan Blumberg-Kason. I am so very sorry to read that you tried to date these pathetic H.K. men. I was chuckling to myself when I read that one guy only kissed you once on the cheek after being with you for so long. How pathetic!!!! Don’t my fellow Chinese men know romance? Well, let me tell you about us American born Chinese (ABC). We are not so disappointing. We are romantic. Have you read my story about my ramance and marriage to a Brazilian woman? Too damn bad that you are married or else I would have tried to intro you to some of my fellow ABC men. I look forward to seeing your book.

    Can you tell the publisher to send it out quicker? I am already salivating thinking about your book. I am so curious about you and your book now.

  66. forest
    forest March 25, 2013 at 10:18 pm | | Reply

    @Fred – Funny the women involved were not offended, but some bystanders were.
    Wonder if the following is a good analogy for your effort, especially the end 🙂

  67. centaur
    centaur March 26, 2013 at 11:33 am | | Reply

    @chinaelevatorstories:

    “Alpha” is an zoology term.

    From Wikipedia: “In social animals, the alpha is the individual in the community with the highest rank. Male or female individuals or both can be alphas, depending on their species.”

    “In hierarchal social animals, alphas usually gain preferential access to food and other desirable items or activities.”

    “Male and/or female alphas may gain preferential access to sex or mates, and in some species only alphas or an alpha pair is permitted to reproduce.”

    The Wikipedia entry goes on to explain what betas and omegas are.

    Are alpha males better than the rest? I suppose if preferential access to food, resources, sex or mates sounds better, then answer is probably yes.

    To put things in context here, what I was saying, is that generally a man needs to be confident, assertive, and in control to be attractive to women. And these are the alpha traits.

  68. askdsk
    askdsk March 26, 2013 at 12:19 pm | | Reply

    I think those European girls in China interpret alpha traits differently.
    Not the whole world follow protestant ethics.

    @Fred
    Susan is more Chinese than you are.

  69. SBC
    SBC March 26, 2013 at 12:46 pm | | Reply

    So..

    1. It is considered weird if someone doesnt want to date outside their comfort zone (more like not date white women.)
    2. Asian guys who date white women are “alpha males”
    3. Guys have complex about dating because they think AN ENTIRE RACE of women is somehow “out of their league””?

    I feel the point of IR dating is lost if these beliefs are still being voiced on this blog. Its great to open our minds and support all kinds of IR pairings. That is enough to support a world where race barriers wont exist. I dont see why people now NEED to date another “race” of men/women for the same. Some of the replies and opinions really make me a bit uncomfortable.

  70. David
    David March 26, 2013 at 12:53 pm | | Reply

    “Otherwise, we would be seeing 1.4 Billion China coming up with a lot of rapes news as coming from India.”

    Law and order problem. It wont happen in China or Singapore because you may get caned or hanged. Not so in India. Also customs. If a girl is raped, most likely the girl will be killed for bringing dishonor to the family!

  71. David
    David March 26, 2013 at 12:55 pm | | Reply

    “Because US has melted all Europeans into one pot and defined them as white, I am also being defined as Asian. It is another American thing you don’t need to take too seriously.”

    Most Americans cannot look beyond race towards ethnicity. That is why some stupid American woman tried to set up a fanatic Hindoo woman from India with a fanatic moslem male from India…after all they all look the same, dont they? Race trumps religion and values does n’t it?

  72. Bruce
    Bruce March 26, 2013 at 1:09 pm | | Reply

    @Fred, I will tell you why!! Your nephew is a male that’s why. Males get criticized more often. Your nephew is lucky that he has you as his uncle. I had to look for dates . You just have to get out there and show yourself and dates will come. You don’t have to be an alpha male in order to get dates. He is one damn lucky nephew!

    @Fred, who says nobody criticizes about your friend in his 50’s with gf in her 20’s ? I will talk bad about him. It’s my turn now damn it !!!!!!!! LOL ahhahahahhahah. Freaking tell him to get a woman his damn age. She is old enough to be his daughter. What the hell does she see in that old man? Aren’t young women sicken tired of smelling old men with odor?? funny. Is your friend using his young gf for threesome or group sex with other foreigners ??? Well Fred… it’s acceptable for men or asian/chinese men to have younger gfs/wives in China/Asia. I even see lots of Chinese men with wives who are half their age! I really don’t know why chinese women will accept such a big age difference. Men rule in asia I guess. You have to understand that women look for status in this world. Have you seen those movie stars and athletes with young gf 2 times their age? It’s all about being very successful and famous. Women will be attracted to you. Fred, do you understand now? I know that you and I have no problems dating western women IF we’re single right now. It’s just dating, nothing serious unless you find a very special woman. Most women will kick you to the curb or don’t even take a look at you if you don’t make any money etc..

  73. David
    David March 26, 2013 at 1:13 pm | | Reply

    @SBC..Funny, in the list no one mentions what the family of the white females might think..and it may be that the people who dont want to waste time with western women are thinking that most white female’s parents are racists and wont accept their daughter having a non-white boyfriend. With an Asian girlfriend it might be different..although back in the days when I was your age…in the mid 1980s, I visited a family..the guy’s sister was visiting..and she got a phone call…she got sick, was sobbing and throwing up. Fearing someone was dead, I left. Next day I asked him if everything was ok, the guy said everything was fine…ten years later, long after he had left for a different employer to another part of the country, I told his aquaintance this story…and he said, that the woman’s son had called her to announce his engagement to a Japanese-American woman from Hawaii, and she became violently ill…she wanted him to date and marry only white women…we have evolved a lot since then..only many white mothers of white daughters react that way now…so that is a significant improvement. So Frred’ nephew may have been thinking about this as well. But, is it possible that Fred’s nephew does not want to get married and people are trying to force things on him? I think this is more likely explanation than the former.

  74. Laura
    Laura March 27, 2013 at 6:06 am | | Reply

    @Fred,
    Are you the one married to a Brazilian woman? I mean, the same one as in a story published by Jocelyn some time ago.
    I did like that story a lot, I like the mix of those cultures, brazilian people are so warm and passionate.
    Don´t feel bad about any of our comments, we are here to discuss, the topic is interesting and we all have different points of view. Is not a critic about you or your acts, is a debat, a discussion. If there is controversy it means that you did a great job with this topic!

  75. Fred
    Fred March 27, 2013 at 10:17 am | | Reply

    @Bruce. Thanks for your encouragement and support. I was feeling a little despondent after supply this story of my nephew due to the inordinate amount of criticisms. By the way for you info. Jocelyn changed the names of the those 4 girls as those names in the story are not the real names of the 4 American girls. But the names of my newphew and neices are real in the story. You made me feel a little better now. I was just trying to tel the truth with a little bit of humor and I did not expect so much negative criticism (although I received a few praises from some).
    By they way, where do you live? Are you living in the U.S.?

  76. Fred
    Fred March 27, 2013 at 10:23 am | | Reply

    @Laura. Yes, I am still married to my Brazilian babe and we have 2 children together. She is now an American citizen as I helped her adjust her immigration status. Thanks for your encouragement.
    Are you married now? Are you living in China? Have you a Chinese bf? Are you a Western girl?

  77. Bruce
    Bruce March 27, 2013 at 12:40 pm | | Reply

    @Fred, I used to live in Southern California for 20 something yrs. Now I live in other state. Do you have hobbies?

  78. Manny
    Manny March 27, 2013 at 12:40 pm | | Reply

    @ askdsk. I do not understand why you are labelling me a racist for reporting the success story of a nerdy Asian male with a super sexy White girl. I do wish them success and I am happy for them. Would a white boy racist wish success on this AM/WW couple? Of course not. But I am wishing them well and I have a Chinese gf, so I am not a racist. We White boys see all too often that volleys of charges of racism against us when we speak our mind about something pertaining to race. While it is true that racism exists in the fabric of our society, we Whites have learned to accept and tolerate other races now unlike the days of the Jim Crow laws and the ubiquitous KKK. Now, it seems that the race card is used against us Whites so often now. For example, when a black man or an Asian male gets turned down for a job or is turned down by a pretty white gal, they immdiately think that the White employer or the white girl is a racist, and then the allegations are made. What about me? I have been turned down by Chinese girls before, but yet I do not allege that these Asian ladies were racist pigs. So, stop alleging racism unless you have a strong enough basis for saying so.
    I just want to say that I love Asian girls (especailly Chinese girls). They excite me the most.

  79. Manny
    Manny March 27, 2013 at 12:50 pm | | Reply

    @ Fred. Thanks for sharing your story of your nephew. I wish him well and hope that one day he will come to America and try his luck on my fellow White girls.
    Thanks also for sharing the story of your friend Peter. I loved it. I am happy to read that an old 53-year old White man can get himself a young pretty 23-year old Chinese girl. I feel so happy, refreshed and validated knowing that an old, bald and fat White man has a very good chance to get himself a young pretty Chinese girl in China. One day I will be old, bald and fat and I can take comfort knowing that those young pretty Chinese goddesses are readily available for a white man’s taking in China. It reminds me of the old movies (eg. “The World of Suzie Wong”) that a White boy can go to China and get himself Chinese women after Chinese women. Life is wonderful!!!!!!!!!
    If you talk to Peter please get more details from him and post them here. I want to know if he was able to “score” or not and if so, how long did it take him. Thanks.

  80. Red
    Red March 27, 2013 at 12:58 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. I live in Torrance, CA. Are you married to a White girl just like I am? Which state do you live in? Are you and your wife an AM/WW pairing?

  81. Fred
    Fred March 27, 2013 at 12:59 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. Oops. I meant to write “Fred” and not “Red” as my name.

  82. 丁杰
    丁杰 March 27, 2013 at 3:20 pm | | Reply

    Height is very important ? I come from dalian

    18 to 25,Dalian men average height is 178 cm I am 184 cm tall

    I am Chinese I’m proud

    Usually Chinese men like Russian women
    Why? Because some Russian women like Chinese men

    You don’t like China man

    Why are Chinese men like you So

  83. Fred
    Fred March 27, 2013 at 3:21 pm | | Reply

    @Manny. Thank you for your contribution to the stories here on this blog. But I am rather perturbed by your comments praising the glorious White male’s sexual conquests of Asian women. When I wrote about my friend Peter, I was neither intending to show men like yourself that Chinese women are easy to seduce and to sleep with, nor was I trying to show you that an old, bald and fat White male can easily pick up on those readily avaiable Chinese women. Firstly, you know nothing about my friend Peter or his situation. Secondly you do not know if he as a White man is old, bald and fat. For your information, he is not bald. At age 53, I do not consider him old, and he is a overweight by anyone’s standards. But you do not know why he was able to get a date with the young pretty 23-year old Chinese girl. For your information, my friend Peter is a very honest, decent and loving fellow. Perhaps it was his decency and the way that he treats people that earned him the right to be with this young Chinese lady. You seem to think that one simply has to be a White male, go to China, and then the Chinese girls will fall flat over heels for these old, bald and fat men just as the movies of the past show. I can assure you that such is not the case. One has to be a decent fellow like my friend in order to be successul. Thus, your gradiose supposition that being a White male alone is sufficient to conquer the hearts of Asian women is simply misguided. I encourage you to come to terms with reality and not base your notions on movies such as “The World of Suzie Wong.”
    I definitely will report back to you and to the others as to how he met the young girl, how his date went, etc. I am willing to bet that his success was not based solely and exclusively on the fact that he was an old, bald and fat White male.

  84. Bruce
    Bruce March 27, 2013 at 3:21 pm | | Reply

    Fred, Torrance is near Redondo beach or Santa Monica Beach right? yes we are AM/WW couple and it’s not a big deal. We’re humans like everybody. Fred, white women turned you down in America and didn’t give you a chance ? Maybe you didn’t meet the right one. In the past, I asked a white woman out and she said yes. We went to dinner and talked for a long long time. She was a vegetarian so I treated her to a vegetarian restaurant. We didn’t have much chemistry. I didn’t chase her. I need chemistry okay. Before this one, I was working out at a local gym, a hot white hispanic woman always came over to talk to me. I was seeing someone during that time. Sorry I was not a player. She was hot , Fred , like “ghost chili” . Another French woman was beautiful too that I’ve met and she invited me to a show and I invited my chinese friends to come along too. Damn why didn’t I ask her out! I was busy with school man and I was not a player. I only dated one woman at a time. What a waste !! 🙂 LOL. I came from a very conversative family so I would not hurt another woman’s heart. If I had such player’s mind, I would have dated all those women. Alot of Asian women showed interest in me in the past,too. Mixed white/asian women liked me too. I told you guys right now that IF I’m single right now, I have no problems asking any women out. You will have rejections but how you climb up again and succeed. I still have this confidence in me eventhough I’m in my early 40’s . I still do bodybuilding and I have tons of hobbies etc. Maybe I’m standing at 6’1″ tall,s till can bounce my chest and around 210 lbs solid muscle, it’s easier for me to find women. I’m charismatic ,honest, charming, funny, caring and a god damn hard worker ( a freaking machine). I can work 7 days a week , 80 hrs plus if I want too. I just like to communicate and talk you to death and women love that. I better shut my mouth now before someone here says that I’m bragging too much. To you it’s called bragging , to me it’s confidence :). Okay use your chinese style and silent me and don’t reward me for being confident. soo funny 🙂 lol . That’s why I’m very different comparing to other asian men because I take everything to the extreme even with my hobbies.

  85. 丁杰
    丁杰 March 27, 2013 at 3:56 pm | | Reply

    I have been to Australia Russia, Italy and Spain

    I don’t think they are very tall I am a young Chinese boy
    Yes Russian girl is very beautiful In China Men’s eyes
    Maybe Chinese men find a Russian girl is easier (Those who flirts with others will have no good ends.)
    I was a northerner

    Sure Chinese men like white girl Especially in Russia

  86. Fred
    Fred March 27, 2013 at 5:11 pm | | Reply

    @Bruce. Thanks for telling me your brief anecdote of your life. I am happy that you have no problems with women as you appear to have the physique to attract many women. I, however, am not so well endowed unlike you. I am only 5 feet and 6 inches whereas you are 6 feet and one inch. You also weight lift and muscular. I, however, am slim and slender as I jog and do some push ups and pull ups to maintaine fitness. I did not have any American women in my past and I think that it was due to my haphazard attempts at pursuing them. When I was younger, I wanted only Chinese girls but would have accepted Korean, Vietnamese and/or Japanese girls but not American girls. When I came to the realization that this was getting me nowhere I flirted with the idea of courting some Western girls. But I was hesitant. I was torn between pursuing them or not. For example, when I was single I recall one time both during before and after a deposition (as I am a lawyer) I had a good long conversation with a young knock-out brown haired and brown eyed Italian/American court reporter. She was giving me all sorts of hints but I was torn between pursuing Western girls or not, and due to this hesitation, I failed to take the initiative and failed to ask her to cross the street with me for an early dinner. During another incident, when I was single, a pretty British girl with a genuine British accent and all (you know how sexy the British accent sounds to Americans) and I were exercising at the gym in Hollywood. We made eye contact by happenstance. She smiled and said “hello” to which I reciprocated the greetings. She then accosted me for a conversation. We conversed for awhile and then I stupidly said that “well, it was nice to have talked to you as I must do my running now on the treadmill” and she left to another part of the gym. Later she returned to my station to say her good bye and I once again due to my stupidity said “good bye” without doing anything more. Why was I so stupid? It was because my heart was torn between going for these pretty White, Black and Hispanic girls or not. Half of me told me not to go for them as I am Chinese and that I love Asian women as they are pretty and slim. Then the other half of me said to go for them especially when they give you hints of interests. Due to being torn between 2 cultures, I lost. One day, I came to the self-realization that one must take a stand and either stay the course of pursuing Asian women or open my pant’s zipper to both Asian and Western women. Unless I am decisive, my life will go nowhere. So, one day I opened my zipper to all women. Soon after self-declaring acceptance of all women and not being torn between 2 sides, I scored.
    Which state do you live in? Yes, Torrance is near Redondo Beach.

  87. Alice Zindagi
    Alice Zindagi March 27, 2013 at 5:13 pm | | Reply

    I think that the majority of this problem is due to cultural and psychological assumptions that white girls just don’t like or won’t mesh well with Asian guys, when that couldn’t be farther from the truth:

    http://www.asianmanwhitewoman.com/

  88. Laura
    Laura March 27, 2013 at 5:29 pm | | Reply

    @Fred,
    Nice to hear you are the one from that story.
    I´m Spanish and some of my relatives ( grandpa, aunt…) are from Cuba. I live in Shanghai with my Chinese boyfriend and no I´m not married.
    Jocelyn also published that story some months ago.

  89. Laura
    Laura March 27, 2013 at 5:42 pm | | Reply

    丁杰,
    In general Mediterranean women ( Spanish, Italian, Greek,…) are not as tall as in other regions in Europe.
    I guess you found Australian and Russian are taller than people in Western Europe.

  90. Fred
    Fred March 27, 2013 at 6:22 pm | | Reply

    @Laura. I recall your story now. I was not aware that you are the lady behind the story of the Spanish love story. Were those pictures in the story you and your boyfriend? Or were they pics of someone else?

  91. Fred
    Fred March 27, 2013 at 6:37 pm | | Reply

    @Laura. I read your story of how you met and fell in love with Tony. I was not aware that you are the person in the Spanish-Chinese love story, but I am so aware not. I am very happy for the 2 of you living and prospering in Shanghai. Why is a Spanish girl living in China? Were you there for study, work, business etc.? I am curious of your reason for going to the PRC. Are you discriminated against by the Chinese people? Is it very polluted? I plan to visit Shanghai and/or Beijing in the next year or 2 and thus I want to know. Thanks for answering my queries.

  92. Laura
    Laura March 27, 2013 at 8:12 pm | | Reply

    @Fred,
    Yes that story! And sure the pictures are our pictures.
    I came here to work and write my Master thesis with Siemens, once I finished it we moved to Shanghai to continue our careers. Not as a student.
    Why China? Why not?! I´ve always been interested in China, during the time I lived in Finland I did a diploma in “Business in Asia” (negotiations, culture, environment,…) and then when I was living in France I found the opportunity and sure..I took it.

    I´m not discriminated by local people, or at least I did not identify any sign of discrimination. I faced some discrimination a couple of times but it was not from local people, it was from foreign men, and it was related to our relationship and their anger against themselves, they could not understand anything, that could be called ignorance. 😉
    I don´t think you should worry about discrimination!
    It is polluted, but less polluted than Beijing, last few months the air has been really bad, my glasses were dirty the whole time and actually it was easy to feel. But since a week ago is much better again, today the weather is wonderful, sunny, hot, …I like this time of the year, not as cold as in winter and not as hot as summer!

  93. Barbara
    Barbara March 27, 2013 at 10:37 pm | | Reply

    @Fred. Firstly, I’d like to relate to your story about your friend Petrer who came to Shenzhen. Sure we don’t know this guy and we don’t know much about his life but the way you described his situation in the first post about Peter (divorced his wife when she was seriously ill, couldn’t find a job in the US, got a teaching job in China, picked up a Chinese girl that could be his daughter) painted a picture of a typical loser laowai. I believe it was not intentional since you are saying that your friend is a good, honest guy. Just try to be more careful when you’ll want to write more about this cause you can be misunderstood. Frankly, I also don’t get it why this kind of guy (in his 50’s and with a difficult past) would date such a young girl (since young Chinese people are usually very immature and even when they are in their late 20’s they act like very young teenagers… but maybe this girl is different).
    Then, you asked me to write about “my story”. This is not going to happen. Basically, because there’s no “story” to write about, no “dirty juicy details”. Sorry to disappoint you. Also, I’m not this kind of person to share my life with people I barely know or people I don’t know at all. Not saying there’s something wrong about it, I just don’t feel the need to express myself in this way. Sometimes I post comments here but it’s not like I want the world to know everything about my life which is, btw, not particulary interesting.
    And I’m not a communist. I thought they were extinct.

  94. forest
    forest March 27, 2013 at 11:03 pm | | Reply

    @Laura – Is the epic pigs in river event over ? Very scary. Hope you guys were not effected.
    @Barbara – Any life story can be interesting depending on how you write it 🙂 I heard Polish story before, love it.

  95. Laura
    Laura March 27, 2013 at 11:12 pm | | Reply

    @forest,
    16,000 pigs (and raising) and now 1,000 ducks (Nanhe river). Is disturbing!

  96. centaur
    centaur March 28, 2013 at 12:28 am | | Reply

    @Barbara:

    Thank you for calling out the emperor’s new clothes. That post is wrong on so many levels.

  97. askdsk
    askdsk March 28, 2013 at 7:31 am | | Reply

    @Manny
    The arguments you made sound familiar in any conservative media.

  98. Bruce
    Bruce March 28, 2013 at 9:17 am | | Reply

    Fred,

    We are torn by 2 cultures and it’s hurting us really bad. I live in Seattle now. It doesn’t matter where you live as long as you’re happy and I’m serious here. I was injured during an exercise a few yrs ago so I couldn’t do much then. Now I’m pumped up man!!!!! Sometimes it’s not about the height or body ,Fred. Some women will just love you regardless. My mom used to say “why are you getting so big for?”. “Some” women like to be seen with men who take care of their bodies and appearance etc ,too. Fred, it natural for me to break the ice when I talk to people now. When I was in college, I tried to ask a white gal out but she didn’t say anything so I guess I was not in her group of friends. I got rejected ,too ,okay. “Some” will reject you regardless of how you talk or look like period. They don’t even care if you’re the nicest guy in the whole wide world.If you’re a little bit successful and you drive a porche and live in a million home, see if they stick to you like bees on honey. “SOME” women are like that, what can we do…That is why I’m extremely attracted to down to earth people in general. Fred, I had the same problem when I was younger that I must dated asian/chinese women. Lots and lots of asian/chinese women liked me and there are some beautiful and hot ones . Actually, 1 to 2 asian women suggested threesome with me but you know we just talked about it. Nothing ever came out of that anyway and I was in my 20’s . Fred, actually you and I were stupid that time because we were influenced by our families, friends and societies. Damn it !!! even western women were smiling at me on a stop sign and she’s pretty ,too. There were hints allllll over but we didnt’ do anything about it. During that time, my friends at the gym and close friends from H.S. were dating and picking up western women already.. Please do something about it if all you guys are reading my comment here. Just do anything like ” I just have only a second here but I would love to chat with you later. Your #’s ? ” Complaining on why we have no dates and asian/chinese women are going with other men ( maybe asian/chinese men don’t ask them out that’s why) , won’t help.

    Bruce 🙂

  99. David
    David March 28, 2013 at 10:04 am | | Reply

    @Manny..dont know whether you sound like the conservative media. But, here is my take. If a Chinese woman turns down a white guy based on physical features…he does not have a flat nose or almond shaped eyes, then it is clearly racism. In other words, if a Chinese woman is willing to marry a moslem Indonesian with whom she has nothing in common but not a white guy it is racism. If a Chinese woman wants to marry a Chinese man it is cultural similarities. Similarly if a southern white woman wants to marry another white southerner who waves confederate flags, it is again an issue of culture. However, if she says she will marry a Russian from Russia who has blonde hair, blue round eyes and pointy nose but not a Chinese American, she is a racist. So it depends upon the situation. I have met both kinds of white women from the south.

  100. Fred
    Fred March 28, 2013 at 1:23 pm | | Reply

    @ Barabara. I am disappointed that you will not share your story with us. Perhaps one day when you feel more comfortable then you can tell us. Did you have to face discrimination in China since White girls (and white men) are few in numbers there?

  101. Fred
    Fred March 28, 2013 at 1:34 pm | | Reply

    @ Barabara. I am sorry but I was not trying to portray a typical loser laowai who came to China to score on women. I was trying to show how one plain ordinary Western White man can overcome the insurmountable odds of both economic and dating difficulties in the U.S. by going to the PRC and become a powerful man socially and economically. He told me how much he is earning as an English teacher in China (but I cannot disclose the amount due to my promise of privacy) and it is a very good wage in comparison to the locals. So, he fixed his economic problem in the U.S. by going to China. As for his dating life, after he divorced his “crazy” Japanese wife in 2008, he was not able to get even one hot date in California. From 2008 to about Feb. 2013, he did not have any job (except for a few odd jobs once in awhile) and not one decent date with a women. But within 1.5 months in the PRC, he earns a very high wage and hooked a 23-year old hot Chinese girl! You see how miraculous and resilient my friend is? Now do you see why he is to be admired? He overcame the insurmountable odds of economic and dating difficulties and became super powerful in China. Now do you understand that he is to be admired and not a loser laowai?

  102. Fred
    Fred March 28, 2013 at 2:07 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. I can truly relate to your situation. Your past is similar to mine as we both wanted to love our own fellow Asian (Chinese) women exclusively, but only in the end to be seduced by those lovely “lawais.” As I reflect on my past, I am kicking myself as to why I was depriving myself of those opportunities of dating those pretty Western girls. I still recall several more instances in my days as a single man when there were two clear and undisputed opportunties to seduce (or be seduced by) those hot “laowais”.
    Incident # 1: When I was still single and I was a member of some exercise class. We had all agreed to meet one Friday night at a bar for a drink and a gossip session. One girl in my class named Diane (whose last name shall remain anonymous) and I were talking and she was wearing a low cut dress. She was an Armenian-American girl and she was super hot somewhat similar to Kim Kardashian. I, after having one or two drinks, put my right hand on her left knee as she was sitting to my right side. I told her that she looked great to which she replied: “So, do you want to have sex with me?” I was shocked and I replied: “are you serious?” She said: “I am, if you are.” I laughed but I did not pursue the matter further. During this period of time, I was still torn between going for those hot “laowais” or not. In the end, I failed to take the initiative and lost. Later she would meet another nice man and became engaged to him. I do not know if they got married or not as we lost touch.
    Incident # 2. Then there was anothet incident when I was partying (when I was still single). I had just met 2 White American girls earlier in the evening at a party inside a hotel suite during a event for lawyers to raise money for a political candidate. Later when these 2 girls (one blonde and the other with brown hair) wanted to smoke a cigarette, I told them that there is no smoking allowed inside the hotel suite as it will trigger the smoking alarm and scare everyone. This would damage our political campaign. I suggested that they can smoke in the bathroom where there is no alarm and where there is ventillation. They then proceed to enter the bathroom together and asked me to go with them to continue our lovely conversation. So, I went. After 10 minutes or so and after several drinks earlier in the night, the blonde girl complimented me by saying that she likes the “baby face of you Asian boys.” I said to the blonde girl: “are those breasts real?” because they are rather large in proportion to your body size. I said that “we Asian boys are not dumb even though we may have a baby face because we know that some White girls have fake boobs” and I further asked: “let me see them.” The blonde refused. Then suddenly the brown haired girl pulled her left breast out of her top and showed it to me and said: “mine are real.” She came over to me and hugged me and allowed me to wrap my arms around her and to feel her a little bit. The brown haired girl lifted her dress up and showed me her tatoo on her buttocks. I was shocked for she was not wearing any underwear. She allowed me to put my hands on her bare buttocks. So, I complied. But again, I failed to take the initiative and did nothing more. So, after no action they left shortly thereafter. Against I was torn between going for or not going for those lovely Western girls. So, I lost again.
    So, Bruce, I can continue and tell you even more about my lost opportunites due to my stupidity and hesitations of my past.
    What do you think? Was I stupid? You will not offend me if you tell me that I am stupid because when I tell others this, they think that I am stupid. Take care.

  103. centaur
    centaur March 28, 2013 at 2:21 pm | | Reply

    Fred, I was wrong.

    You’re not an alpha. You’re a creep. Can’t believe you’re practicing law.

    猥琐秀下限。

  104. Bruce
    Bruce March 28, 2013 at 2:34 pm | | Reply

    @Fred, You F…king dumb, stupid asss!!! I’m banging my head on the wall now when you told me this.. Okay I’m calmed down now. continue please! before I will break this weight machine! I want every guys out there to learn from our mistakes. Do not hesitate or else you will regret it !! Regret what? Maybe that woman you didn’t ask out , could be your future gf/wife.

  105. Bruce
    Bruce March 28, 2013 at 2:40 pm | | Reply

    Fred is not a creep. Without showing any sexual approaches or touching , soon you will be a creep !!!! He was single so it was okay. Flirting leads to touching, it’s okay.

    Centaur, you’re just traditional so you think like this.

  106. Fred
    Fred March 28, 2013 at 3:26 pm | | Reply

    @Centaur. You may be right that I am not an alpha male. But I cannot you believe that you are calling me a “creep.” Firstly, can you define what a creep is before you call me this hurtful name? Secondly, I define a creep as one who is a sex crazed maniac who pursues woman after woman without morals and one who without the woman’s consent touches her. If you had read the above carefully, you will see that incidents # 1 and # 2, the women were willing but I failed to pursue the girls any further after we had some initial exchanges of touching. Both sides consented. Where there is mutual consent and I was not cheating on another woman, I do not believe that makes me a creep. So, if you still think that I am a creep please define it for me.

  107. Fred
    Fred March 28, 2013 at 3:36 pm | | Reply

    @Laura. Thanks for answering my queries. I am very happy that you are doing so well in Shanghai with your Chinese lover boy.

    You wrote that you faced discrimination from the foreign men about your relationship with a Chinese bf. Can you please give me the details? What did they say? What did they do to discriminate against you? I am sorry for asking but I want to know what I may face when my wife and I go to Shanghai and Beijing in the next year or two.

    By the way, is Jocelyn Eikenburg right when she wrote that it is very common in Shanghai to see foreign men with beautiful Chinese girls? Her observation is true in H.K. When I was visiting Hong Kong SAR last year in August 2012, I did my own informal census based on my personal observation and here is the score:
    1) WM/AW parings: 49
    2) AM/WW parings: 6 (I and my wife included herein).

    Another Chinese male attorney friend of mine is married to a White American girl and he told me that several years ago, he and she went to a shopping mall (Arcadia Mall in Arcadia, California), spent almost half a day there, and decided to do a census just as I did. He observed:
    1) WM/AW parings: 87
    2) AM/WW parings: 1 (not including him and his wife of course).

    So, I was wondering, Laura, have you done your own census and if so, what is the score?

  108. Fred
    Fred March 28, 2013 at 3:39 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. Thanks for defending me against the charge by Centaur, my fellow Chinese man!

    Do you still want me to recount several more instances of my stupidity in light of what Centaur called me when he labled me a creep?

  109. Bruce
    Bruce March 28, 2013 at 5:03 pm | | Reply

    Fred,

    Go ahead! I want to hear how stupid you are.

    Yes, most asian males won’t pursue White women for many reasons as you’ve mentioned. They feel like they are totally different.

  110. Bruce
    Bruce March 28, 2013 at 5:32 pm | | Reply

    Fred, Let me answer your question on why you have so many WMAW pairings. Look on the internet right now for me please. White men are actually doing the pursuing over asian women. They are looking for gfs/wives/dates or even sex all over the internet. Go ahead and check for yourself. Imagine how many white men are chasing after asian women on the street. Not many asian men are chasing white women.. very small percentage! The problem here with asian men is that we don’t chase western women ;therefore, AMWW pairings are low low low. Also, discrimination, prejudice, racism play a big part, you name it.

  111. forest
    forest March 28, 2013 at 6:14 pm | | Reply

    Just response to the hint and you will see many AMWW pairings.
    Some western women love Asians. Why not love them back ?

  112. Fred
    Fred March 28, 2013 at 6:25 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. Okay, here is more evidence of my stupidity. Please do not call me either a “creep” or “pervert.”
    Incident # 3: I once knew another White girl from my exercise class when I was single. We became friends and neither she nor I had a partner. We stayed out late one night after dinner. We then went back to her apartment and talked until almost until 2 a.m. I do not recall what prompted the question of a “massage” but I recalled rubbing her neck, legs, arms etc. to make her relax. She then allowed me to rub her breasts a little. Then I back away because once again my heart and mind were still into Asian women and not White girls. After backing away and saying my sorry, she proceeded to go to her bed room to sleep and said that I can stay the night. I stayed on the sofa. Then early in the morning when I wanted to leave, I knocked on her bedroom door and asked if I can go inside. She answered in the affirmative. I then went inside and laid down next to her because I wanted to test myself to see if I can still like intimacy with a White girl. So, I put my right hand down her pants and felt her buttocks, legs and breasts but she did not allow me to touch her “pussy.” After doing this for awhile, I stopped and did not try to undress her or to go any further. She was doing some type of token resistance and hoped that I would go farther (this is my personal interpretation but I was uncertain). Why did I stop? Well, once again my heart and mind were still into Chinese or Asian women. You see how stupid I was? Then later I tried to rekindle with her but she would reject me and gave me no more dates (ie. I was rejected by the Western White girl).
    Incident # 4: Before I met and married my current Brazilian wife, I was just starting to date my very first Brazilian/American girl. But again I was not 100% into Western women yet. I was perhaps 2/3 into Westsern women and 1/3 into Asian women. Well, I got all of her clothes off and she was lying naked on my bed. I performed oral on her (cunnilingus); she performed oral on me (fellatio); I stuck my fingers inside of her. But when she wanted my “dick” insider her, I refused. Why? Well, because my other Chinese friends said to me: once you stick your dick inside a Western girl, then you will reach the point of no return and then you will lose your Chinese senses and lose your desire for Chinese women. Well, I did not want to lose my “Chinese-ness” or to lose my desire for Chinese women because my heart and mind were still 1/3 in favor of Chinese or Asian girls. So, needless to say, this Brazilian beauty became extremely irate and the next time we saw each other, she told me to not see her anymore (i.e I was rejected by the Western girl). You see how stupid I was then?

    So, Bruce, was I dumb or not?

    I still have one or two more instances of my past stupidity. Do you still want to hear them?

  113. Bruce
    Bruce March 28, 2013 at 7:14 pm | | Reply

    I won’t call you creep or pervert. Damn you Fred if you are my real friend I’ll slap your ass silly. How can you be soo stupid man?? Of course, that Brazilian rejected your ass because you ruin the heat of the moment. OMG you won’t lose your Chinese-ness like that you fool. Who are your friends ? I want to slap their stupid asses too. Where do you find friends this stupid man? I understand too that very traditional chinese man will respect women no matter what. Well, “some” women won’t reject you eventhough you didn’t hit a home run that night. I guess western women will reject you on that. I understand why you didn’t go all the way. I understand. Now you know why chinese men won’t chase western women right.. Fred, you are a good example of why majority of asian/chinese men like us won’t chase western women in the beginning. Once we’ve found out the problems, we miss many many many chances already.. Fred, you did everything right except the execution part.. Incident #3, you supposed to make her horny outside the pants and escalated until there was no return hint hint. Okay, continue with next incidents……

  114. Laura
    Laura March 28, 2013 at 10:17 pm | | Reply

    @Fred,
    I suggest when you visit China with your wife you come without expecting discrimination, I´m afraid if you expect to find discrimination then you will find it. You will find that words or looks have a second meaning, just don´t forecast that.

    Those two cases with foreigners were in different environments. Let´s say during Eurocup, football season, I went with my German colleagues to see Portugal-Netherlands and Spain-Germany. Some people just don´t know how to behave in those situations and even if you don´t celebrate goals, or you celebrate the performance of both teams they just have a bad combination of alcohol in blood and they don´t know how to lose either. That leads to umcomfortable comments related to Hispano, cleaning the house, siesta, economy and since my boyfriend was there, comments about us. My German friends suggested we move to a different place but I didn´t want, I prefer to stay in that place I am and make him feel uncomfortable next to me. I just thought if I go he will be the winner, therefore I stayed and I smiled the whole time, that was pretty annoying for him.

    Few months after that I was in a coffee and the same guy came to my table to ask if the seat was free, he started to talk to me and I knew he didn´t even know that I was the same person. (See: same people different environment). He talked for a while about what he was doing in China, his life, his life back home, and asked. Then I told him that in fact we met months ago, and he was an a** … He apologized like thousand of times and I was just laughing.

    Do you speak Portuguese (Brazilian) too?

  115. Barbara
    Barbara March 28, 2013 at 10:54 pm | | Reply

    @Fred: Sorry, but I’m afraid that your friend is a typical loser laowai. You think that he’s so lihai cause he makes more money than the locals? Sure his salary is higher than his fellow Chinese teachers, but then ask him how much his student’s parents earn. Loser laowai is a person who couldn’t make a living back home, couldn’t get any dates, comes to China and suddenly his life becomes so much easier. He makes 12000 – 20000 rmb (although the salaries are lower if an appartment is provided by the school) and feels rich cause it’s more than the locals make (again, depends WHICH locals), it’s easy to go out with a young, pretty girl who has just graduated from college (or maybe not cause a college graduate would think about her future and relationships more seriously). Tell your friend to find a well-educated shengnu in her thirties and ask her out. I’m curious if he’ll succeed.
    But nope, he’s not to be admired. In fact, his story is very sad.
    Funny but you sound a bit like Manny. Are you really Chinese? When have you been to China last time?
    Also, I won’t “share my story” not because I don’t feel comfortable now. I don’t share my private life with people I don’t know, that’s it. It has nothing to do with feeling comfortable or uncomfortable.

  116. askdsk
    askdsk March 29, 2013 at 9:31 am | | Reply

    If I were Jocelyn, I won’t publish the story. I look hard to find the punch line, but there is only self-loathing.

  117. Fred
    Fred March 29, 2013 at 10:20 am | | Reply

    @Laura. Thanks for telling me about the discrimination in detail and I am sorry that you had faced such a horrible thing in China. I will try to be careful when my wife, I and children go there next time.

    Yes, I speak Portuguese and Spanish as well.

    I studied Spanish in school and to try to improve my Spanish, I tried to date a Spanish/Mexican girl one time but failed. At least I got to practice my Spanish. I will have to tell you about the failure. Do you want to know? I will you if you ask.

  118. Fred
    Fred March 29, 2013 at 10:54 am | | Reply

    @ Barbara. Thanks for sharing your opinion of my friend Peter whom you labelled a “typical loser laowai.” I cannot agree with your assessment, but I respect your opinion nevertheless. If you still think he is a “loser” I am willing to have you and your boyfriend meet him in person as he lives in Shenzhen which is the same city where you and your lover boy live. If you two were to meet him, you will change your negative opinion of him and find that he is a decent, educated and honest man with much integreity and probity. Let me know if you want to meet him and I can arrange it.

    Yes, I am Chinese and am not Manny. My name is Fred Fong. You can go to http://www.calbar.org and then to “attorney search” and enter my name. Then you will see that I am real and if you want, you can contact me via telephone to verify this fact.

  119. Bruce
    Bruce March 29, 2013 at 11:36 am | | Reply

    @Fred, alot of people couldn’t believe that I’m Chinese either so it’s okay. I have a website that I can prove I’m Chinese ,too :). Fred, are you going to tell me your incidents? It’s friday.

  120. Barbara
    Barbara March 29, 2013 at 11:46 am | | Reply

    @Fred: Sure, why not 🙂 It’s not like I judge your friend and say that he should burn in hell cause I perfectly know how it feels during the first few weeks/months in China. When I first came here (before my graduation I came to China to visit my classmate in Yunnan) I was shocked by the way people used to treat me. While in Europe I was a normal, plain student of Fine Arts in China I turned into an exotic, crazy beauty. It sounds funny but for some foreigners here it really takes some time to realize what they REALLY are. Usually after the first month they realize that in fact they are not so awesome and that in fact locals treat them like animals in a zoo. I know that Shenzhen can be a very lonely city. So if your friend Peter is ok with dating a 23 year old Chinese girl maybe he can also go out for a beer with a 27 year old Polish girl. I can show him around, there are a few cool places here 🙂

  121. Fred
    Fred March 29, 2013 at 11:46 am | | Reply

    @ Bruce. Here is encounter # 4:
    This encounter was with a white girl. When I was single, I and another male friend (white caucasian) went to a country western club to listen to cowboy music and to dance. I think the name of the place was Cowboy Country in Long Beach, CA. My male friend was a frequent patron of the place and he knew several other fellow patrons. Not soon after we sat down, a rather young attractive blond haired white girl came to our table. My male friend introduced the girl (Heather) to me. I noticed that she had a southern accent and I asked her where she was from. She said that she was from Alabama. I thought to myself that it was strange that a southerner exhibited no sign of prejudice to us Asians. She even asked me to dance and so I did. After we danced we returned to our table for awhile. She then left to another part of the club and I sat by myself while my male friend was else where.
    I then noticed at the next table, a young pretty white girl slapped the face of a tall cowboy (he was wearing blue jean pants, jacket and a cowboy hat). They yelled at each other for a short while, the bouncers came, she remonstrated with them, and they removed the girl physicially. I then approached the tall white cowboy to inquire what had just happened. He told me that he had danced with the girl on several occasions and she had to much alcohol; when she asked him to dance one more time, he refused on the grounds that she was too drunk. She then yelled at him and said that “you think you are too good for us girls now?” Then she slapped him. This was the reason for the fight. I then returned to my seat and sat at my table alone.
    Then Heather returned and I invited her to sit next to me. I told her that she just missed all the action while she was out there on the dance floor. She then asked me what she had missed. So, I then recounted the story of how the girl slapped the tall cowboy’s face. You you not believe what Heather said next! She then said to me in her Alabama accent: “Well, I too would slap you too, Asian boy!”
    Needless to say, I was completed shocked. I thought to myself, is this the southerner’s display of prejudice against other non-white races? Is she drunk? What should I do next? Again I was torn between both cultures: Chinese and American. The Chinese side of me said to leave now and walk away as she is clearly displaying prejudice. Any Chinese man under these circumstances would have walked away from those loose and crazy “gwei lo” and “gwei niu.” However, there was still the American side of me which said: she must be joking and inviting me to reciprocate the flirations. So, what did I do? I chose to experiment with the American side of me as at that time I was still toying with the idea of dating or not dating those crazy “gwei niu”. So, I said something like this:
    “Well, if you want to slap an Asian boy, then go ahead.” I then turned around, bent over, and had my buttocks facing her. Then I used my left index finger to point to my left buttocks region. She hesitated. I then said again: “Go ahead if you dare to slap this Asian boy’s butt and then see what will happen next! Well, guess what? This crazy “gwei niu” did in fact slap by left buttocks area. I could not believe it.
    After the slap, I was so shocked that I was rendered speechless. I and she sat down in my table and I did not talk much to her anymore. She then left and I never saw her again. Now as I am reflecting on this encounter, I realized that I had lost yet another opportunity by remaing silent after the butt slap. I could have talked to her more and tried to get her number, but again I failed because the Chinese side of me was saying: “stay away from those crazy gwei niu.”

    So, Bruce, my fellow Chinese man, I still have a few more encounters but I am spending too much time writing and not working. So, if you want to hear more encounters, let me know.

  122. Barbara
    Barbara March 29, 2013 at 11:52 am | | Reply

    @Fred: I live in Nanshan District, next to QQ 😉

  123. Fred
    Fred March 29, 2013 at 11:56 am | | Reply

    @ Bruce. Oops. I meant to write “encounter # 5” and not “# 4.”

  124. Fred
    Fred March 29, 2013 at 12:01 pm | | Reply

    @ Barbara. I will attempt to contact my friend Peter this weekend to see if he is interested in meeting you and your boyfriend and then obtain his consent first before I dissmenate his personal contact information to you.

  125. Bruce
    Bruce March 29, 2013 at 2:22 pm | | Reply

    Fred,

    First of all, I want to say that you’re a lucky man now that you’ve married your wife with 2 kids. You can write this weekend or next week. ” patience is golden ” :). Yes write more encounters or else we’re running out of things to say here. After she slapped your butt, you supposed to talk to her some more. This incident was okay but I like 1- 4 better. Fred, I do agree that the Chinese side in us that stops everything that we want to do.

  126. Fred
    Fred March 29, 2013 at 4:00 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. Here is encounter # 6 which is not so exciting.

    When I was a young law student in my 20’s and single. I and a few boys went to a night club to celebrate the end of the first semester in West Los Angeles. While the other boys were somewhere else in the club, I was sitting on a bar stool watching a TV screen about something funny. There was a very beautiful blond haird blue eyed American girls sitting next to me. I was a little shy then and did not want to talk to her. Suddenly, she asked me: “Are you Japanese?” I answered: “No, are you? I am Chinese.” She laughed and then I asked: “Why do you ask?” She replied: ” Well, I used to teach English in Japan and learned to speak the language, and thus I was wondering if you spoke Japanese so that I can practice a little.” We then talked a little bit. She was sitting next to a very handsome white male and I thought that he was her boyfriend. She later told me that the man next to her is her friend only (I guess she was hinting to me not to be freightened and perhaps was even suggesting that I should seek a date with her). Well, guess what? I did nothing but said that I had to go as my friends and I had to leave now. In my early 20’s I was only into Chinese girls and no one else. I was tempted to seek a date and ask her for her number back then, but again my “Chinese-ness” was preventing me from doing so because I did want to date any of those loose and crazy “gwei niu.” This encounter is not so exciting.

  127. Fred
    Fred March 29, 2013 at 4:16 pm | | Reply

    @ Barbara. I just emailed my friend Peter to see if he wants to meet you. I am now waiting for his reply. Once I get it, I will relay it to you.

  128. Bruce
    Bruce March 29, 2013 at 5:10 pm | | Reply

    Fred,
    I understand everything that you’ve said here. I’ve been there several times. We were just focusing on Chinese/Asian women too much during that time. My other close friend was in the movie industries and he was seeing alot of “gwei Niu” . He told me that he picked up this tall white woman while surrounded by other white men. He was muscular and shredded so I guess it was easy for him. Very nice guy. He told me about all those western women he had picked up. So fun talking to him on every women he dated and soo funny ,too.

    Well, if you guys are reading what Fred and I have been talking about here. Please don’t let the chance passes you by when you have the opportunity to ask for her contacts. You won’t have many chances in life you know. Once you talk to her for a while it’s easier to escalate into something more ( relationship/ marriage). Sometimes, women are making the moves on you but you hesitate to execute. Drop the bullshit ” Chinese-ness” in you and ask her for a date etc.

  129. Fred
    Fred March 29, 2013 at 5:21 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. I still have several more encounters to tell you about. Do want to read them? This one is when I tried to pick-up on a young pretty black girl. Please advise.

  130. Laura
    Laura March 29, 2013 at 9:07 pm | | Reply

    @Fred,
    As I said you should not expect to be discriminated, I do suggest you don’t think about that cause then you will look for it, it was in China but they were foreigners. You can find this kind of people all over the world.
    I also speak some Portuguese, years ago my Portuguese was quite good cause I used to spend my summers in Portugal but since more than 12 years ago I don’t use it, though I can understand without any problem, I can still speak ” Portoñol”.
    Thanks for offering the details of your date with the Mexican woman but I think that’s quite private, no need.

    Jocelyn is currently looking for stories that failed so if you are interested you can share it with her and if this is what she is looking for she may write a great post about it.

  131. Laura
    Laura March 29, 2013 at 9:14 pm | | Reply

    @Barbara,
    Way to go! I love the fact that you give people a chance to meet and talk, the description of Fred’s friend was as you said not giving a very good impression of him, but still you understand that it does mean he is what words say about him.
    I hope after the date, if you finally date, you won’t find “juicy” details here of your own date, as you said you don’t like this aspect just make sure he won’t share it!

  132. Barbara
    Barbara March 30, 2013 at 12:08 am | | Reply

    @Laura: I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, but many foreigners (mostly guys, but women too) act like complete jerks after they come to China, which doesn’t mean that they’ve always been jerks. If someone wasn’t really successful in his home country, had financial problems, wasn’t considered attractive by the oposite sex and had a dull life in general – in China he can feel like the king of the world. He gets a decent salary which allows him to lead quite comfortable life here (if one doesn’t have a family here and doesn’t have to pay for schools, kindergartens and such), suddenly he becomes very handsome just because he’s white and people want to be his “friends” (mostly to practice their English) and take pictures with him all the time. After a few months some of those foreigners come back to normal, some don’t and they remain loser laowais forever.
    Besides, Shenzhen is a modern city without soul. There are people from all parts of China and often they don’t understand each other. A few weeks ago I talked with my neighbour who is a local hakka guy. His family moved to Shenzhen when he was little and he said that on that time it was his real home, there were mostly guangdong people here. Last month he came back after a few years of studies in the UK and he can’t recognize this city. All the people around are strangers and even if he’s Chinese it’s difficult to make friends here. So imagine how a foreigner must feel. Also my assistant (she’s from Henan) went back home for good two weeks ago cause she couldn’t stand this solitude any more. I love my life here now but without the support (my bf and his family) I’d also go back to Poland after two or three months.
    Also, I’m not worried about finding “juicy details” here later cause, well, even if we’ll meet with Peter surely it won’t be a date. I have a bf but even if I was single I’d never date a guy who could be my father. But yeah! @Fred and Bruce, what’s wrong with you guys? Why do you write all those things about your dates and what you were doing with those girls?! Don’t you realize that ANYONE can read it here? These are very intimate matters, you don’t care that you share it with completely random people? And not everyone wants to know (I don’t, this is why I skip most of the comments here). Maybe you guys can just exchange emails or something?

  133. Laura
    Laura March 30, 2013 at 1:21 am | | Reply

    @ Barbara,
    I have a couple of friends living in Shenzhen. A very nice German girl I met in Suzhou and a Chinese girl-friend that studied with me in France, last one lives in a small village near by Shenzhen, if you want to get to know them I can put you in contact, they are very nice!
    Since I live in Shanghai I also don’t have many friends, I mean, I go for a coffee, talk, go for dinner,… But is not a friendship. When I was living in Suzhou I did hang out a lot with good friends, now they are back to their home countries. I found that finding real friends in Shanghai is not easy either.
    I don’t like going to clubs ( I went to clubs when I was very young), I don’t like to pay 180-250cny for a brunch, I live in a quiet place tha I like a lot but is not in downtown,… If I hang out with foreigners often I will spend lots of money.
    But is not a problem, we all get used to things, when I was living in Finland our free time was mainly for studying and traveling, France was only to study and my colleagues came from everywhere in the world so we met a lot but here is not like that, just need to enjoy whatever you do!!
    I realized some people who moved to China, like you mentioned, have a “complicated” attitude, that’s another reason why I don’t fit too much sometimes. But I didn’t meet them till they came here so I don’t know if they were like that before 🙂
    Recently I went for lunch with a guy from my village, he lives in China too and he has a Chinese girlfriend so our families put us in contact and we met, was both nice and weird, he criticized a lot his girlfriend and her family, talk very bad and personal things about her. Time ago I would be surprised but is not the first time I meet someone like this.
    I think taking the subway changes my mood, many many times, sometimes I wonder if I also become a jerk. A bad day in the subway when everyone runs, push, don’t let you go out, talks loudly, or jumps into the train with higheels than end on the top of my foot,…subway really changes my mood a lot.

  134. askdsk
    askdsk March 30, 2013 at 7:25 am | | Reply

    In China, the kinship mostly bases on family and school units. There is less senses of community like churches, social clubs and other organizations. I think you are going to meet people if you have a hobby or activity to be part of. It is harder to see your life’s goals aligned with more mature couples or professionals. Shenzhen is a special case because of its short existence. In Shanghai, it is easier to reach out to those who are not originally from the city. You are both outsiders. It is not easy to make real friends over certain age. But if you make a real Chinese friend, it is likely to last longer. My experience with Europeans seems to confirm it is more of the case there too. Americans tend to bound faster and dissolve quicker, instrumental and superficial relationships.

    @Fred & Bruce
    Anyone who “partied” and not a hermit can have some wild encounters as you claim. Anybody remotely familiar with psychology knows what is going on here.

  135. Bruce
    Bruce March 30, 2013 at 8:01 am | | Reply

    @ Barbara, I love your name ;however, I won’t exchange email address with Fred. Don’t worry about it. I didn’t put their full names here soo it’s okay. I just like to comment :). Well, Fred and I just wanted to talk about many encounters that we supposed to make it a reality in real life. Don’t get us wrong here, WE LOVE OUR WIVES HERE. We are just talking here only. I just want to educate more Asian/ Chinese guys out there that’s all so they won’t make the same old mistakes like we did. Barbara, if I decided not to comment here I would just disappeared for good.

    @Fred, Please do write about all your encounters no matter if those women are blacks, white, hispanics or red, blue or green. I love stories and they really stimulate my mind . Hey, this is much healthier than porn. I don’t even watch porn because it messes up your personality and mind.

  136. Laura
    Laura March 30, 2013 at 4:50 pm | | Reply

    @askdsk,
    True that is less common than in other countries, in Europe is very common, but honestly I see raising interest in Shanghai! I can tell that my Chinese colleagues all belong or attend one of the following: church / music lessons / choir / tennis club / study group.
    Church is the most common in the list, afterwards is a “study group”.

    I do agree about friendship and how long it takes and lasts, and good friendships remain despite time zones! My best friend is European, lives in Sweden now, we met many times with a lot of people till finally we started to call each other for a coffee or study together or something, it took time to become a friendship but there it is, and is very strong despite our locations.

    I have two very good Chinese girl-friends, we studied together in France. And it was also like @askdsk said.

  137. Barbara
    Barbara March 30, 2013 at 11:39 pm | | Reply

    @Laura: I think that my situation is quite similar. Sometimes I go out with my bf’s classmates but can’t really call them my friends. We were really close with my assistant but our company didn’t like the fact that we became friends. Then we’ve both quit the job and she went back home. I had one great Tibetan friend here and we could really spend all nights together talking until morning. But two years ago I had to go back to Poland for a few months and when I came back I couldn’t find him (he moved out from his place, changed his phonenumber and simply can’t track him so I assume that he also went back to Tibet cause he really didn’t like Shenzhen). As for the foreigners here, I also don’t get it why they always have to spend time in those expensive places for expats. Mostly they work as English teachers so surely they don’t make more money than me. I don’t think that it’s so cool to spend most of my salary on clubs and restaurants, I’m also not stupid and I’m not willing to pay 50 kuai for a small beer.
    When I lived in Portugal I used to hang out with people from different parts of the world and making friends was easier. I don’t know if it’s because I was younger then or it’s just China-thing that nobody here wants to show his true face to others and everyone is pretending something. Also when I watch my bf’s friends I have an impression that they are not really close to each other and they just want to show who is more successful.

  138. Laura
    Laura March 30, 2013 at 11:51 pm | | Reply

    @Barbara,
    Maybe as @askdsk said is because of the age. I understand that when you are a student is easier, not only because you share the classroom and your time with people who are in a similar situation to yours but also because you have more free time, similar economic situation,… I guess is a combination of everything.
    I do like to go to events, last year we went attended the Rolex Masters (Tennis) finals, in 2011 the swimming championship and this April we will go to the Formula 1 here in Shanghai. Those are “expensive” events, not very expensive but they are not cheap at all. The point is that if I spend money often in going for brunch, or beer, or clubs,.. as you said, I will not have money to attend events that I do enjoy because I can´t attend those events back home but I can enjoy them here. If you drink 1beer/week in a club, 50CNY/week then in less than 2 months you spend enough money to buy 1 ticket and part of another 😉

    When my father comes to visit us that´s an investment too, he likes to take taxi, and food is different, restaurants, activities, so that´s the way I can save some money for his visit too.

  139. huang
    huang April 1, 2013 at 10:12 am | | Reply

    4 white girls!?
    Perfect for a game of majong 🙂

  140. Fred
    Fred April 1, 2013 at 10:19 am | | Reply

    @ Barbara. Hi Barbara. My friend Peter said that he will be happy to meet a fellow expat in Shezhen over coffee or a beer. Please give me your email information and then I can start the process.

  141. Fred
    Fred April 1, 2013 at 11:03 am | | Reply

    @ Bruce. So, here is yet another encounter with a Western woman when I was single and was still contemplating whether I should or should not date those “crazy” gwei niu’s”.
    When I was in my early 30’s and had been practicing law for a very short while, I had a very young African American female client who was quite well endowed and pretty. We were in the courthouse finalizing her case and I was reading over the settlement documents to her before signing. I told her that we will charge our usual fee on case # 1 (the bigger case) but for case # 2 (smaller case), our firm will not charge you. She was very happy and said “thank you” and then asked: “How I can make it up to you?” I replied by saying: “Well, you can go out with me on a date after this.” She smiled and said nothing, to which I said: “I am sorry. I don’t know why I said such a stupid thing like this.” I felt embarrassed and she said that my face turned red. She laughed and said that she will be happy to go out with me on a date. She gave her cell number. As I was leaving the courthouse she gave me a hug, and I was thinking to myself that a lawyer should not date his or her own client to avoid conflict of interest. However, she was very well endowed, pretty and taller that I was. I am only 5 feet adn 6 inches. She was almost 6 feet tall. In the end, I did not call her because I was uncertain whether I should be involving myself with those “crazy” Western girls. After all, I was still into Asian girls at that time. This encounter was not so exciting as you can see.

    I will tell you one more about yet another encounter with a Russian-American lady next. Do you want to hear it? It is not so exciting also.

  142. Bruce
    Bruce April 1, 2013 at 12:08 pm | | Reply

    @Fred, tell me every encounters boring or not. If this case doesn’t involve criminal, marital issues etc, I guess it’s okay for you to go on a date with her. Some black women are beautiful but you just have to find the right one to connect. “Crazy” western women ? 🙂 . Most asian men are afraid of open, loud and direct western women. I mean it’s okay but it depends on what they say. We just like well mannered women I guess. Fred, I told you again and again that our “chinese-ness” stopped us many times to do whatever we wanted to. In the past, I had many chances but I didn’t take either. To be honest, even til now some “women” like me , I still won’t do anything because I’m currently married over a decade to my wife who I love to death. Yes those women give me signs :(. I think my personality is what attracts them . Okay continue….next incident..

  143. Fred
    Fred April 1, 2013 at 1:24 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. I can relate to your assertion that our “Chinese-ness” has stopped us Chinese men on numerous occasions from trying to pick-up those wild, loud and crazy “gwei niu’s” in the past.
    Okay, you want to read yet another enounter? Again during my youth when I was single and still contemplating dating or not dating those loud, wild and crazy laowai girls, I started to venture into unknown and strange territories. In early January of every year, we attorneys have to attend conventions to learn the new laws, see the new books, new computer programs, etc. Always, at the conventions there are marketers and exhibitors who show us their products for us to buy. One convention was held in San Diego, CA. One medical group to which I send many of my injured clients had a Russian/American female manager, whom I have never met. So, the doctors of this medical group are familiar to me and they invited me to the lounge in the hotel for a drink that evening and to talk about business, etc. They introduced me to their office manager during this evening after the class and after the exhibition hall had closed. She was tall (6 feet and one inch) and her height was even made more pronounced by her high heels. She was a White Russian American lady in her early forties. I was in my early 30’s at that time.
    So, that evening we were all at the hotel lounge. To my left sat a male doctor, and to his left sat the Russian/American lady. So, in between us was the male doctor. Across from me were other male doctors and their wives and employees. We sat there for a long time, we drank, we laughed, we talked, and we gossipped until around 12 p.m. I was mostly talking to the doctors and very little to the manager. Then some of the doctors and their wives said that they had to leave and they did. So who remained? I, the Russian/American lady, one middle aged male doctor in front of me and another young American female (presumably the older doctor’s girlfriend). So, then I conversed with the Russian/American lady while the seat between us remained empty. I knew that I had to either move to the empty seat to be next to her or induce her to sit in the empty seat next to me in order to try to pick her up. So, what did I do?
    Well, I pretended that I could not hear her so well due to the distance and that I did not want to have her shout nor do I want to shout. So, I said something like this for I do not recall the exact words used: “I am so very sorry, but I am having tremendous difficulties hearing you. Perhaps you can fill this empty seat next to me so that I can hear you better.” She then took the seat next to me. So, bingo!!!!! I got her next to me.
    Then I asked her for her last name as at the time of introduction I only recalled her first name. She told me her last name and I then asked: “Your last name sounds American and not Russian eve though you hava a Russian accent. You are Russian, are you not?” She said: “Yes, I am Russian but I married an American and that is why I have an American last name.” I said: “Oh, it makes sense.” I even saw that her left hand had a ring on it. This fact certainly confirms that she is married (or so I thought). We continued our conversation and later after serveral more drinks, she confessed that she was divorced but kept her American last name. She then asked if I was married or not. I told her that I was still single.
    The conversation then turned a little toward the wild side after a few drinks when we talked a little about China. She told me that many Russians had lived in Yarbin before WW II but they were forced out by Mao. She also said that many Russians girls marry Chinese men in Northern China. I said: “Really?” I am not aware of this fact. I said that I thought that you Russian girls would not go for chinese men as we are not so tall and not so muscular in comparison to the Russian men. She laughed and said that you Chinese men are known for being super smart, caring and loving; this is the reason why many Russian girls marry Chinese men in Northern China. She the put her right hand on the back of my head and said that you Asians are known to be smart. After she put her right hand on the back of my head, she kept the right hand on my neck and upper back and rubbing it a few times.
    So, how did I respond? I thought for a quick moment. A Chinese man would not touch the girl, while an American man would reciprocate the touching. So, I decided to experiment by being American that night and used my left hand to touch her lower back and lean my head to her right shoulder to say: “thank you for the compliment.” We conversed some more and she kept her right hand on my upper back and neck area, while I had my left hand on her lower back. Later I escalated the touching a little bit more when I put my hand on her left hip/buttocks area; she did not protest.
    When it was getting very late, we decicded that it was time to go to sleep. So, I said to myself: should I do what the American men do by trying to seduce her and then nailing her and dumping her ass? Or should I simply do what we Chinese men do by thanking her and taking her number down and calling her later to invite her out. In the end, I chose the Chinese side and got her number. Did I follow up? No, I did not call her nor did I see her again. In fact, she still works for the medical group now and once in awhile I talk to her related only to work issues and nothing more as I am now married and love my wife.
    So, Bruce, this is not so exciting. Sorry.

  144. Fred
    Fred April 1, 2013 at 2:20 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. Oops. I meant to wrote “12 a.m.” and not “12 p.m.”

  145. Bruce
    Bruce April 1, 2013 at 4:44 pm | | Reply

    @Fred, no matter how nice ,caring and loving you are, women won’t fall for you. “CHinese-ness” = shyness to western women so it’s a failure!!!!!!!! Our Chinese-ness always paints the perfect picture like “is she going to be my gf/wife?” . Chinese-ness always tells us to be polite etc but nothing happens at the end. Maybe American style is good for Asian men like ” F… it, who cares about tomorrow” then more possibilities will come out because you don’t take responsibility for your action like kissing or sleeping with her. On the other hand, Chinese-ness in us will make/force us to take responsibility after kissing /sleeping with a woman. It’s very confusing I know because you have to be a real Chinese man to understand. Fred, did you regret for not grabbing the Russian American woman’s ass? Damn our CHinese-ness is killing us big time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  146. Fred
    Fred April 1, 2013 at 6:28 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. You asked me whether I regretted not groping the Russian-American lady’s ass. I have mixed feelings about this question.

    On the one hand, I wondered what ever would have happened had I tried to escalate the situation if I touched and massaged her buttocks, because at that time I was toying with the idea of going with Western women. At that time, I was beginning to develop more and more fondness for Western girls as my dating life with Chinese girls was going nowhere. I thought that she would be great fun as she had a mix of Russian and American cultures. She was pretty for a 41-year old. She had a decent buxomness and great bosom.

    On the other hand, I wanted a traditional Chinese girl from H.K. or China. Chinese girls were very sexy in my opinion then and still. The Chinese girls were rejecting me because they said that I was too much like a “gwei lo.” Even though I was developing an increasing likeness for the Western girls, the Chinese side of me said to stay the course as patience is a virtue and to continue to build your carrier, save your money, buy a house, and then the Chinese girl will like those values. The Chinese side of me told me also that the Russian/American girl was 41 and I was 32 then, and thus having children will be a difficulty for her. Also, she had 2 young children of her own. The Chinese side of me said to avoid the messy situation (ie. too old to bear children, dealing with another person’s children, divorced girls are viewed as “left over” and not so desirable, too tall for me, and maybe she knows nothing about filial piety). These were the reasons why I did nothing.

    What about you, my fellow Chinese man? Have you any encounters to tell me or us in detail? If you do not want to post them, you can give me your email and then we can chat in private. What do you say, my fellow Chinese?

  147. Laura
    Laura April 1, 2013 at 6:52 pm | | Reply

    @Fred, @ Bruce,
    You feel very comfortable talking about your sexual, or almost sexual encounters with women.
    In fact, it gives the feeling that that is the only thing you care about those dates, and is an interesting point of view…

    At least, where I come from, if you meet a girl and is all about what you described in your stories, in that way I mean, you should not “worry” cause this would not be your wife, maybe your “several nights or one night stand”, but we do belive that that´s not the kind of way to start something if you want it for the long-term.

    The way you link your sexual thoughts with future: children, career…And well let´s say, you are married with children and you are describing here your almost sexual encounters with other women…

    Have you realized that when you talk about Western women you mention their body, and sexual encounters ad when you talk about Chinese women you talk about patience, virtue, money, and house?

  148. Barbara
    Barbara April 2, 2013 at 6:58 am | | Reply

    @Fred: it’s barbarkagrotowska(at)gmail.com

  149. Bruce
    Bruce April 2, 2013 at 8:13 am | | Reply

    Laura,

    ” Have you realized that when you talk about Western women you mention their body, and sexual encounters ad when you talk about Chinese women you talk about patience, virtue, money, and house?”. I understand everything you want to say here. If western women are equal in these ways with asian women, you suppose to see more AMWW couples but we are NOT seeing that right now. We want to talk about one story at a time so we won’t mix everything together. We are talking about why we do NOT initial and execute the encounters. We wanted things to happen with those western women but our “Chinese-ness” holds us back. That is why nothing happened. It’s like the opportunity is there and you just have to say YES but you do NOTHING. The patience, virtue, money and houses come later when you’re married.

  150. C
    C April 2, 2013 at 11:39 am | | Reply

    Fred, as long as you have money, they’re all going to be onto you for a fling…. and something to gain in return.

  151. Fred
    Fred April 2, 2013 at 12:13 pm | | Reply

    @ Barbara. Thanks for giving me your email address. I will initiate making the connection between you and Peter by disseminating your contact info. to him. I am almost certain that once you and your Chinese “lover boy” meet him over lunch or dinner, you will find that he is not a typical “loser laowai” but he is a winner in every sense of the word. He is an honest and decent person with excellent qualities and a great education. Please check you email in the next few hours for my email which will contain his contact info. Good luck.

  152. Fred
    Fred April 2, 2013 at 12:14 pm | | Reply

    @ C. Your statement is so true.

  153. Fred
    Fred April 2, 2013 at 12:34 pm | | Reply

    @ Laura. The reason why we are discussing these almost sexual encounters with Western women is because this site is solely and exclusively focused on relationships between AM/WW. Based on your comments, you seem to think that I (although I cannot speak on behalf of Bruce) am some sex crazed Chinese male maniac whose sole focus is to seek out Western women for sex. This cannot be farther from the truth. I am simply recounting some of my past encounters at the behest of visitors such as Bruce. I am now in my mid/late forties and over the years I have only slightly more than a dozen of these near sexual encounters with Western girls. Thus, if you do your math, you will see that I had approximately one encounter on average every one or two years or so ever since I reached adulthood (from 18 to 35 because I got married at 35 afterwhich I had no more of these encounters). As you can see, my frequency is rather low. Would a sex crazed maniac not seek more of these encounters quite frequently perhaps daily or weekly? Thus, your impression of me is wrong because I was merely recounting some of my missed opportunities and not boasting about my sexual prorwess.
    As to why I spoke only about Asian women in the context of patience, virtue, money and house and not about sex. Well let me state that I have had near sexual encounters with Asian women in the past that did not center on virtue, money, patience and houses. I did not discuss them on this site because this site is focused on AM/WW relationships. But since you are questioning why I did not mention Asian women in the context of near sexual encounters, I am willing tell you one encounter. Do you want me to tell you or not (even though this site is not dedicated to Asian male/Asian female relationships)? I am patiently awaiting your reply.

    I am certain that Bruce will want to see it!!!! Hee, hee, hee…..

  154. Bruce
    Bruce April 2, 2013 at 3:53 pm | | Reply

    @Fred, Yes baby!!!! I want to hear :). Well, when I was in my mid 20’s I had another encounter with a nurse. She was a Southern belle from I think GA/TN. I met her while she was in California while visiting there. She was tall , vuluptuous, big breasts and very nice as a human being. When she went home, we had talked over the phone several times. She was so nice to talk to and she had a boy. During that time, I really wanted to visit her but I was just too busy with work and my study. After a while that I didn’t call her, you know and I didn’t actually visit her so I guess some guy asked her to be her bf. I didn’t think about long distance relationship that time and I knew it wouldn’t work out like this . She loved the pictures that I sent to her and I loved her pictures that she emailed me. I’m not a sex crazed guy as you can see here. I think porn, playboy magazine and hustler are bad for some reasons. Just bad for your health and mental health. If I visited her right away, then maybe she would had been my wife but who knew what would happen right? Yes, I had good feelings about her. I’m very attracted to down to earth women and that’s my weakness. When I moved to Seattle, I met another Latina. She was such a nice woman . She loved tall men because I’m 6’1″. Every time I saw her in person, she would hug me and we went to lunch several times. We called each other alot because our jobs were related and we needed each other’s help. I felt like she liked to party most of the time that I didn’t want to really be serious or anything. I love her personality and a very “hot” Latina. I guess I wanted a gf during that time and I couldn’t accept a woman who loved to party and doing the salsa dance everyday man. Let’s jump to another encounter at work!!! I was at my desk and all of a sudden a white woman who was a coworker touched my arm and started talking to me. Our company was very huge and we had lots of professionals in our building. She was flirting with me and touching my arm and stuff. I didn’t get her # because I heard from the secretary that she flirted with a lot of guys already. Man, if I was a horny dog ( sex crazed), then I wouldn’t care much about who she flirted with. Like I said, I was looking for a gf not a fling. She was very sexual but my heart said I wanted a gf/wife not a one nightstand. I have more encounters like this one with a jewish woman.. I was at a meeting and we were talking with other white woman (married). I said I’m such a good cook and please let invite all of you ladies so I could cook dinner for you and I could show you my beautiful home. Jewish woman was tall, soft spoken and sexy and she said ” YES WHEN” . A week later , I found out from the married woman that other guys were chasing her. Man finally, I’ve found a woman who I liked and someone was chasing her? That’s not my style and I won’t fight over a woman because I want everything to be mutual between us. I didn’t call them to come over :(. See there is nothing sleazy about my encounters because I control myself. I’m always a gentleman always that’s why women like me.

  155. Bruce
    Bruce April 2, 2013 at 4:28 pm | | Reply

    Laura,

    Let me talk for Fred about asian women ! Wanna hear about asian women huh? LOL. I kissed this asian woman w/ big breasts several times in California but I didn’t know that she was a bisexual. She asked me if I wanted a 3some with another asian female we knew. 3some didn’t happen! Nothing exciting right? I also went out with another asian woman . She was pretty with killer curves ( big breasts, long hair down to waist ). One of my friends even wanted to have her #’s and I said ” what kind of F…k… friend are you? you even want my date’s # ” F..k.. some men are really losers that they can’t find dates. I’m freaking serious and I’m still pissed about him until today April 02,2013 for being soo damn unethical. We went to bar , restaurants,etc . We went to her friend’s ceremony far away because she invited me to go with her. Afterward, we went back to a hotel that she rented 2 weeks ago. I didn’t know that it only had one bed seriously. Like I said again, I always wanted a gf/wife so I always wanted to control my sexual drive. I know I know I was banging weights like hell and my testoterone level was high but I still controlled my sexual urge! We just kissed only because I wanted to test her to see if she was gf/wife materials. We just slept in one bed kissing but no home run. In the moring, I drove her home and after a few days, we went to dinner at an Italian rest. I know she had some crazy curves and very beautiful but my beliefs were different from hers. Is this sleazy? I don’t think so. I know this story is not about AMWW but you guys were curious so I just have to tell you guys. I treat everyone the same. I have more encounters with western women but seem like Fred and I are only talking here. I want to hear other asian men on this subject .

  156. Fred
    Fred April 2, 2013 at 5:11 pm | | Reply

    @Bruce. Thanks for telling me about your encounters with both Asian and Western females. I will requit your kindness by recounting the following anecdote of one encounter with an Asian woman. Again when I was single some marketing companies will send their representatives to my office to solicit business. On one particular occasion, a marketing company asked me to go to lunch with one of its field representatives so that the rep can tell me how great her company is and the reasons why we use their services. I agreed. She came to my office and I saw this knock-out 1/2 Vietnamese and 1/2 Chinese woman. She was slim with great curves and medim sized breasts. Over lunch we talked about mostly business. She told me her age was 27 and mine was 33 then. She told me at first that she had a white boyfriend for 5 or so years (I think). As the lunch progressed, we talked about other subjects such as family, friends, vacations, and dating in today’s age and how difficult things are. She then somehow changed her characterization of ther relationship with her boyfriend. She said something like that they were really not boyfriend/girlfriend per se but very good friends and that they share a lot of fun activities; that they were not exclusive; that they see each other on and off; that are still somewhat free to see others; that she likes more Asian guys than white guys but can tolerate white guys but can still love a white guy. I was at a loss to understand how she changed suddenly from the characterization that they were in a fully committed long term boyfriend/girlfriend relationship to a loose and perhaps not a solid one. This caught me by complete surprise.
    Guess what happened next? I felt the tip of her shoes taping on mine constantly. At first I thought that she wanted to tap on the leg of the table but perhaps she mistook my foot as the leg of the table. So, I moved my foot; then she continued to follow my foot and tap on it. Then it dawned on me! She was making an advance on me when I combined the fact that she was taping on my foot with hers along with the change in characterization of her relationship with her boyfriend. Duh!!!!!! Everything makes sense.
    Well, I knew I was tredding into dangerous territory since she had a boyfriend, and so I did not pursue the matter and thank her and her company for the lunch. She even gave me her cell number but I did not call her or see her again.

    You see. Nothing interesting.

  157. Laura
    Laura April 2, 2013 at 6:18 pm | | Reply

    @Fred,
    I was not saying that you are a “sexual maniac”, I apologize if that´s what my comment implied. What I mean is that the relation between those encounters (which are mainly related to sex since the description is mainly based in sexual aspects) and children or marriage is a bit different where I come from.
    If during a date the situation is similar to one of yours, I would not think about marriage or children, anything related to family, as we talk about dates and not relationships and the way they started, I would not think about starting a family with someone who is having an open relationship, with boyfriend and is touching me under the table. (This is just an example using what you explained in your last comment).

    It is a bit sad that you think that your behavior is “chinese-ness”, and you relate Chinese with something negative. I hope even though you are abroad, you don´t forget your own people and country. Is good to have different perspectives about everything, including your own origins, but when you use your own origins to talk about something negative is something to worry about.

    Is like if say ” You are so Spanish” to some group of people with a bad behavior. Just an example.

  158. Bruce
    Bruce April 3, 2013 at 8:46 am | | Reply

    @Laura, if it’s not our “Chinese-ness” that stops us from pursuing western women , what then? Majority of Chinese men always think about family, education, marriage, money ( the future). “Chinese-ness” attracts asian /chinese women mostly because they understand the asian culture. “Chinese-ness” also scare away most western women too. “Chinese-ness” = too traditional thinkings ( gf/wife/bf/husband relationship ASAP, respestful etc). That’s why you don’t see Asian/Chinese men hitting on Western women often. Western women like it when you’re not soo uptight, not controlling,not clingy etc. Eventhough Fred and I had lots of opportunities with Western women but we still have our Chinese values. I’m between traditional and westernized but depending on some cases, I can be more westernized than westerners.. I shaked my butt in front of 500 people so am I traditional?

  159. Fred
    Fred April 3, 2013 at 12:44 pm | | Reply

    @Laura. I was not stating or implying that my “Chinese-ness” was a negative thing which prevented me from going after those Western girls. I was speaking about compatibility and not negativity. I am stating that my “Chinese-ness” makes me less compatible with my Western counter-parts and this was the reason for not chasing after those Western girls. Let me give you one example. Chinese values dictate that we must behave in a certain way such as express less emotions and repress those wild emotions, while Westerners express theirs openly without regard to constraints. Chinese values also dictate that we must look for the long term (ie. sacrifice today and sit on golden toilet seats tomorrow) while many Westerners (although not all) think live for today and F_ _ _ tomorrow. Need I continue? These are some of the reasons why I refrained from pursuing those hot laowai girls for so many years. But I finally succumbed to temptation and chased a laowai girl and caught her. Now I became a “gwei lo” myself per Yi Ling in the story above and ever since then I am a “gwei lo” living in a Chinese man’s body. So, my behavior now is like those wild, loud and crazy laowais. Do you want to see me do a strip tease act like those crazy white boys? Hee, hee, hee…….

  160. Fred
    Fred April 3, 2013 at 12:47 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. I agree with your statement addressed to Laura. It appears that Laura is one of those laowais who just simply don’t understand even though she lives in China and has a Chinese boyfriend. We cannot fault her as she is, after all, a foreigner is not well versed in the Chinese culture. But I can see that Laura is trying and I give her tremendous credit for dating a Chinese man and for talking here.

  161. Bruce
    Bruce April 3, 2013 at 1:22 pm | | Reply

    I give credit to Laura also. Fred, do a strip tease for us with bras on! I love it :). I’m loud too right now. Maybe louder than laowais and more expressive than laowais with or without a glass of wine. Fred, why do you think China and Japan are bailing the United States out these few yrs. Why do you think Chinese people buy homes with cash instead of obtaining a loan usually? It’s just a different mentality. Why do you think Western men like Chinese/Asian women? for the slim body? I don’t think sooo. Explain to me why! You know most Chinese men work 7 days a week. They are not going to marry/date someone who don’t understand why they’re working those long hrs.

  162. Manny
    Manny April 3, 2013 at 4:02 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. You wrote: “Why do you think Western men like Chinese/Asian women? for the slim body? I don’t think sooo.”

    Well, Bruce, let me tell you that I, as a white boy, love Asian/Chinese women especially for their slim bodies. They do not gain weight as much or as fast in general (I am speaking in general terms) as white girls do. So, you are dead wrong when you wrote that we white boys are not in love with those slim goddess-like bodies. In fact, I am infatuated with my current ABC gf.

  163. Bruce
    Bruce April 3, 2013 at 6:14 pm | | Reply

    @Manny, hahahahha hehhehehehe lol . good for you :).Do you like more and more about your Chinese gf now? We always watch our bodies dude. Almost all Chinese/Asian women watch their bodies. I watch my body too and everybody says I look younger every yr haahahhah eheheheheh :). It’s a lot of work dude not easy.I wish I have a brother so you can hook him up with your sister. Manny, I’m very glad man that things are going fine with you and your Chinese gf. Listen to my advices and you’ll have a healthy, normal, understanding relationship/marriage. Good luck

    Bruce

    p.s. better go back to my work out before all my dumbbells rust :(.

  164. Manny
    Manny April 4, 2013 at 12:01 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. You asked if I like more and more about my Chinense gf. The answer is: “yes, you can bet every penny under the haystack, boy.”
    My China doll has a slim body and all. The things I like about those hot Chinese goddesses are: that they are super slim; that they do not gain weight as much or as fast as the white or black chickies; that they value education; they hold their age better than the Western chicks; that they respect elders; and that they are supposed to be submissive and obedient toward the man (although my Chinese gf is not obedient or submissive at all). I think she is too Westernized as she was born and raised in the USA. Nevertheless, I love her dearly.

    Yes, it is too bad you don’t have a bro or else I can set him up with one of my sisters. Pamela would be the best choice as she is the wildest one of my 2 sisters. Susan is more proper but she too can be wild when she is with me and Pamela together. The three of us can tear up a town in less than one night if we choose to do so.

    Thanks for all your advice, bro. I hope to meet Kate’s parents sometime in May when the semester ends for her, and I will be flying to sunny Cal to stay for one week and meet them. So, wish me luck, bro. I will be certain to be on my best behavior!

  165. Manny
    Manny April 4, 2013 at 2:38 pm | | Reply

    @Bruce. You wrote: “do you like more and more about your Chinese gf now?” The answer is: “yes.”

  166. Fred
    Fred April 4, 2013 at 5:40 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. Sorry bro, no strip tease act for you as my offer was only for the girl Laura and the others.

  167. Bruce
    Bruce April 4, 2013 at 8:08 pm | | Reply

    @Fred, Let me strip for you and the girls 🙂 lol.

    @Manny, since I don’t have a brother , you can introduce to other nice guys here. Or this offer is mainly for my brother only ?

  168. namenotgiven
    namenotgiven April 5, 2013 at 2:41 pm | | Reply

    @ Manny,

    (www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dRHLIvg7zHQ)

    Came across this and thought I would run it by you. What is your thinking on it?

  169. Manny
    Manny April 8, 2013 at 2:14 pm | | Reply

    @namenotgiven. I agree that I have “yellow fever” and am loving every moment of the disease. So, far my ABC girl embodies everything that a white boy could as for and I have loving her. Thanks for sharing the link though.

  170. Bruce
    Bruce April 10, 2013 at 12:33 pm | | Reply

    @Fred,

    When I was in College, there was a beautiful blonde. She was in my class during that semester. One day I was in the library doing my homework, she asked me on how to spell a word. I gave her the right spelling of that word. She was sooo beautiful. She could be a model . Anyway, she was w/ different guys during that time. That was not my style so I didn’t ask her #. I wish I was a player like my friends but I wasn’t . It’s okay no big deal!! nothing special. Soo there are a lot of nice , honest asian guys just like me who are not players.

    Bruce

  171. Fred
    Fred April 10, 2013 at 1:56 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. Thanks for telling me about one of your close encounters of the past. If she (the blond) were always with a different guy, the chances are that she and you would not have lasted long as she probably faced pressures from other men who will try to entice or seduce her to go with them. You probably saved yourself a lot of headaches and grief. If, however, you wanted to have a quick and short sexual encounter, then it may have been possible, but you are like I am by trying not to be a philanderer. That is why I am still married to my current wife for over a decade strong.

  172. Bruce
    Bruce April 10, 2013 at 6:56 pm | | Reply

    @Fred, That’s why you and I are alike in a way. Longterm is the best way and be happy at the end. Being married is like prolonging your life and happy too. I didn’t want to be a single guy (loner) at the end like my friend told me. He was with pretty women once before and he said ” F…..g lonely man, it’s not what you think my friend”. Having someone who will love you is the main goal . Not like some people with some hot women thinking they are happy. the answer is : NOOOOOOOOOOO

  173. Fred
    Fred April 11, 2013 at 12:38 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. Please tell me about your friend and how he was able to get himself pretty women but in the end still became lonely.

    I once read a book called “The Game” and the author Neil Strauss documented his experience as a philanderer and a pick-up artist. He wrote that he was able to have so many beautiful women time and time again, but in the end he settled for a stable and long relationship with a decent woman, because he said that the pick-up game was fun but after awhile, it is not as appealing as people think. Have you read the book?

  174. Bruce
    Bruce April 11, 2013 at 2:19 pm | | Reply

    @Fred,

    He was dating/sleeping with 6 to 7 women a week. Almost all of those women want a commitment from him later on. He felt that most of those women didn’t really love him. That was why he was lonely when he was at home. He was successful , confident, tall , fit , driving $100k car and ASIAN ! My friend became lonely was because those women just wanted the financial stability from him. He was not willing to settle down. He was exhausted all the time due to banging women all the time. Those women he showed me were beautiful. One gal was working for show business that he was seeing. She was pretty. He texted me a picture of them. He was banging another white woman ( beautiful) . That woman said ” youre penis is bigger than most/all my white bfs” . He said she was surprised that an asian guy could be this strong/powerful in bed. He said she was moaning like hell ” you’re killing me ,you’re killing me ” . He said most women didn’t have this “caring attitude” so he didn’t like. He told me that those women still have sterotypes about asian men but you just have to prove them wrong and which he did prove them wrong. He told me that all women are the same regardless of race. The feeling about that woman is more important than race according to him. I have more to tell but I don’t want to excite you guys.

  175. Bruce
    Bruce April 11, 2013 at 2:42 pm | | Reply

    Fred, he got those pretty women by talking to them and being persistent. He said you have to send a good impression/vibe with all those women. You can not talk and act like a typical asian man. One thing we agree on is that you have to bang a woman hard so she will remember you and get her excited talking to you and meeting you in future dates. I just talked to him 5 minutes ago . Soo funny talking to him because my personality resembles his.

  176. Fred
    Fred April 11, 2013 at 2:46 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. I want to hear more details about your Asian male friend, my fellow Chinese man. I am interested in hearing about AM/WF success stories now, unlike before when I was not so much into WF. When I was younger, my attitude was similar to what Jocelyn described about those Chinese men in China in her article on “Rarity of Chinese men with Western women” (i.e. WF can be your friend but not your mate; WF cannot fit into Chinese culture; WF is too loose, loud and crazy; WF will not follow filial piety, etc.) Now, I am more or less a gweilo trapped inside a Chinese man’s body. Thus, you do not have to worry about exciting me. So, go ahead and tell me more details about this Asian male friend of yours who was so successful at courting those wild, loud, crazy and loose “gwei nus.” I look forward to the details. If you are afraid of offending someone, we can exchange personal email accounts and then discuss the details more privately.

  177. Bruce
    Bruce April 11, 2013 at 3:49 pm | | Reply

    Fred,
    He was going to marry this very cute Latina but she had a kid so he was not comfortible with that situation. I think he likes to communicate with people and he likes to talk just like me. That’s why western women find him attractive . Normally, asian men are portrayed as quiet and timid right? This asian guy doesn’t possesses these traits. He is good in sales , open minded etc. He doesn’t stay on the “friend zone” just like me. We know which women can be only friends ( no attractions). He was telling me that one white gal kissed him . Well, he helped her fixed something with her car. He was sweating so afterward he took off his shirt and *BOOM* she said you’re “hot” and she then kissed him. I saw his body before.. another women killer body! He told me that you have to have strong , wild sex with WF not like your soft, weak , ” dragonfly touching the water surface style”. Another WF he mentioned, always wanted a..l and pulled her hair and stuff. she said ” f… my a… , f… my a…” He was shocked that most WF are like this wild and thinking WTF. He thought was weird. He was successful because he has no anxious approach. You have to be fearless and just talk to those women like normal conversation. I talk to people all the time no matter if you’re white, blacks, asian, hispanics, males, females.. You just have to be a natural man. Yes be a natural and you will find yourself a woman of any race. Good luck guys.

    Bruce

  178. Fred
    Fred April 11, 2013 at 5:45 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. Thanks for sharing the details of your friend. I was not trying to learn the pick-up game so that I can pick-up those hot WF, as I am now a married man. I was merely curious. So, if you have any more stories about AM/WF successful pick-ups, then let me know. I will reciprocate and do the same for you.

  179. Bruce
    Bruce April 13, 2013 at 12:43 pm | | Reply

    @Fred,

    My friend and I have never read that pick up book or any other pick up books. Those books are for guys who knows nothing about women. You know sometimes women reject you no matter how handsome you look or how much money you have. Picking up a woman is different and maintaining a relationship with your gf / wife is different. They are not the same thing. Making a woman likes you , you need to be special and stand out from other men. I know alot of white men who have problems with hooking up with women ,too so this is not just about Asian men.

  180. Bruce
    Bruce April 15, 2013 at 9:54 am | | Reply

    Fred,

    It’s much better if you have a muscular body when trying to pick up western women. It’s a difficult culture from asia. Women don’t like big, muscular guys in Asia. White ,black women and latinas love it when you have a muscular built body. It’s easier if you have your physique together. you can argue all you want but I will stand by my words.

    Bruce

  181. Fred
    Fred April 15, 2013 at 11:37 am | | Reply

    @ Bruce. I agree with you that those pick-up books and pick-up lines such as “The Game” may or may not help you. It all boils down to the individual and how you treat people in life. The muscular built only attracts the intial attention of the Western woman and thereafter, it is all personality, behavior, and treatment that will get you to the next level. When I was single and exploring the idea of going or not going with those WF, I did was not muscular or tall. I considered myself an average plain looking Chinese man and yet I had some encounters which I could have turned them into successes had I just pursued the matter further. I did not know of the “The Game” or any pick-up books or lines then. So, I guess you are right that those books and gimmicks don’t necessarily work well. How you treat people in life is more effective than those pick-up lines and gimmicks.

    I agree with you that in the Asian culture, the excessive muscular built can be a turn-off for the Chinese woman. I have heard elderly Chinese ladies say many times in the past that big muscles are disgusting because they are akin to low class rugged laborers. It is interesting that in Western eyes, muscular built is a sign of health, strength and beauty.

    I only read the book “The Game” because a summer law student last year in my firm read it and he said that it was interesting. So, he lent it to me last year for my leisure reading. Too bad this book did not come out before I was married, because let just say that I would tried to use those tactics just to see if they work or not. Now this question is moot and irrelevant as I am now married to the woman of my dreams.

  182. Bruce
    Bruce April 15, 2013 at 3:27 pm | | Reply

    Fred,

    All those books about “the game” just get your feet thru the door. Once, you’re there, the hardest part is maintaining the relationship . Some men are ONLY good at picking up women but they are ZERO on maintaining a healthy relationship because they won’t commit. Those men only think about themselves. Most men just want to be players and some women can be “players” also. Fred, why do you think I always say ” always exceed the women’s expectation in every categories” like physique, honesty, personality, attitude, caring, intelligence etc and you will be fine. You just have to talk constantly and women like a men who can communicate.

  183. Bruce
    Bruce April 15, 2013 at 3:36 pm | | Reply

    Fred,

    I know alot of my friends and clients who are muscular , get more women. I know in my area … Three asian guys are with Latinas. One is married and the other two met their gf at clubs. They think they are hot with all the right curves in the right places.

  184. Bruce
    Bruce April 15, 2013 at 7:12 pm | | Reply

    Fred,

    There is no trick to attracting a woman once you have “confidence”. Ask her to hang out with you . approach in your comfortible ways and gradually move closer and closer. If you’re tough enough, tell her that she is gorgeous and beautiful and see if she bites the bait. Talking here and doing it in real life is different so you just have to feel it in you. You know women can feel you if you’re real or not. Just be natural and not talking and acting like a weirdo/creepy person. Duhhhhhhh 🙂

    Bruce

  185. Fred
    Fred April 16, 2013 at 1:51 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. I agree with your views that “The Game” only gets your foot in the door (i.e. noticed by the woman), but once you have the woman’s attention, then success will be a function of your personality, treatment of people, behavior, etc. I had a male friend and fellow student while in law school. He was tall with blond hair with blue eyes. He could well attract the girls and I saw that he had so many women successively but he failed to commit to any of them. So, his relationships with them were quite fleeting and brief. After a quick fling, he dumped them and I even recalled that several of the girls were crying with tears. I tried to advise him not to take this callous attitude, but he was impervious to my pleas. In the end, he moved back to his home state after law school and I have not heard from him since. So, being a “player” is not advisable in my opinion because it arouses indignation and generates dispisableness.

  186. Bruce
    Bruce April 17, 2013 at 7:57 am | | Reply

    Fred, All my friends settled down already . They said after a while everyday is the same old s… . They are just tired of the whole “the game”

  187. Bruce
    Bruce April 17, 2013 at 2:27 pm | | Reply

    @Fred, yup all of my friends are married. I remember I know another asian friend. He was very muscular with HUGE chest ( only could see his chest . standed out the most) , 29 ” wasit, 18 1/2 ” arms , six packs. He had no problems with asian women. Accordingly to another friend of mine, he didn’t approach women at clubs or white women at the club. With that kind of physique, he could have picked up any women but he was not confident enough. He lacked charisma I guess but he should have done more.

  188. Fred
    Fred April 17, 2013 at 2:55 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. Yes, I agree that your muscular Asian male friend should have done more. You wrote that he lacked the confidence. I can relate to his situation. When I was younger and was single, my Chinese-ness restrained me from doing more such as going after those hot WF. I was then interested solely and exclusively in Asian women especially Chinese women. Later when I started to change my outlook and was considering the idea of chasing after those hot WF, I was still not fully confident because I did now know how nor whether we were compatible. Thus, I had to experiment and little by little took baby steps toward getting one of them (see above encounters). What about you? When did you decide that WF waa for you? What steps did you take?

  189. C
    C April 18, 2013 at 2:29 am | | Reply

    muscular men have big MOOBS

  190. Bruce
    Bruce April 19, 2013 at 11:50 am | | Reply

    Fred, I liked WF when I started to talk to them more and more . My first step was to talk to them and later asked them out.

    Another story…. My friends and I were working out at a gym . You know usually after the gym, we would go to the buffet for lunch. After pushing all these heavy weights, we were hungry all the time. We were regulars too. One waitress was spanish.. She invited all of us to attend her party. Well, I think we liked to chitchat with waitress so she felt that we were nice men. So talking to women, help you open up to other possibilities as well.

  191. Fred
    Fred April 19, 2013 at 12:23 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. Thanks for sharing yet another one of your stories. I once tried to date a pure Mexican girl but failed due to my inability to speak Spanish. I have a male friend (the same one who introduced me to my current wife) and when we were much younger and were both single, I was then toying with the idea of dating Western women. He suggested that I go out with a Mexican girl who spoke very little or no English. I at that time did know any Spanish (unlike now) and when we went out we could not communicate at all. I relied on my male friend to translate but having a third person in our presence was a little discomforting because the third person deters the initiation of intimacy between the girl and me. At the end of the date, I felt devoid of any love or attention and hence did not call her back.
    After that empty experience, I decided it was time to learn Spanish and so I went to night school to study. Now I can converse at intermediate level and can communciate reasonably well (I think). I reached and passed internmdiate level 3, but I failed advanced level one several times and hence I dropped out and did not go to advanced level two or three. I will have to tell you some other time about my next and improved dating experience with a Spanish speaking girl, after I had acquired sufficient Spanish skills. So, I must return to work now. Take care my fellow Chinese brother.

  192. Bruce
    Bruce April 19, 2013 at 12:39 pm | | Reply

    Fred,

    Work and your families are more important my friend.

  193. fred
    fred April 19, 2013 at 2:38 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce. Ditto.

  194. Fred
    Fred April 2, 2014 at 5:19 am | | Reply

    Hi Everyone. This is Fred again. I will be visitng Hong Kong from 4/2/14 to 4/12/14 again. While in H.K. I will meet my nephew for dinnner or lunch and then and there I will broach the subject of dating American girls. This time I have the help of my white Brazilian wife and possibly even more White girls lined up for him. I informed Jocelyn already and once I report back to her, she will write an updated post for all to read. So stay tuned everyone!!!!!

    Fred

  195. Laura
    Laura April 2, 2014 at 5:39 am | | Reply

    I feel glad none of my relatives do that to me, or to any of my cousins. Being honest here, not getting married does not make anyone a loser.

    But people who get too involved, in excess, in others’ affairs, does make them feel less empty.

    If you don’t like to be pushed to date HK women, why would you like to be pushed towards American women?
    If people don’t like to be pushed to get divorced why they still push other people to get married?

    In general, feeling pushed to take important decisions does not help. Even if the result is good, the process is painful.
    If people don’t like to be pushed to

  196. Fred
    Fred April 18, 2014 at 1:30 am | | Reply

    @Laura.

    I am in agreement with you and that is why I am only suggesting to my newphew and not using any force or undue pressure.

    Fred

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