Guest Post: Fair to Say Asian Men Prefer White Women? | Speaking of China

38 Responses

  1. R Zhao
    R Zhao June 26, 2015 at 8:01 am | | Reply

    BAP. . . if you don’t mind my asking, what generation American are you? I have friends that are first generation and it seems like they have the hardest struggle in this area. There is often the pressure to uphold old traditions, which often goes hand-in-hand with marrying someone who has similar roots. But on the other hand there is also the appeal to assimilate or enjoy the freedom of dating and marrying whomever.

    Posts like this make me nervous, because I’m reminded of the toxic posts that are out there about how Asian women are superior to white women. Thank you for explaining your stance intelligently and sensitively, without all the usual stereotypes. I also find it interesting how you’ve had very different dating pools at different points in your life.

    1. BAP Blogger
      BAP Blogger June 26, 2015 at 8:42 am | | Reply

      Hi there. thanks for your comment. I’m the first generation of my family, second in my family, to be born in the U.S.

      I think the desire to find someone with similar roots, and this is just my personal feeling, is that it is really an expression of the need to feel understood. Simklar backgrounds help, but in my opinion, love, empathy, and patience provides the understanding a common background might, too.

  2. marghini
    marghini June 26, 2015 at 8:01 am | | Reply

    This is a wonderful piece. Bravo!

    I am going to spark a bit of controversy here, but I hope the conversation is open enough that I can share a perhaps unpopular point of view: I find the idea of only dating within a selected racial group inherently racist.

    When people only date within their race or on the opposite when they exclusively date someone from a selected race different than theirs, it is almost like they are automatically discriminating all the other races they are excluding from his dating pool. How many White men living in Asia casually say: “Yeah I only date Asian women now because White women are fat, selfish and arrogant but Asian girls are so pretty, slim and sweet.” That’s racist against both White and Asian women!

    The case is different for people who end up only dating within their race “accidentally” as they are not exposed to other race at all (that was my case growing up) so they don’t really have an alternative.

    I wish one day people will be open-minded enough to just look for someone cool, smart and honest to date, without even factoring race in the selection.

    I know there is a long way to go, but hope dies last 🙂

    1. BAP Blogger
      BAP Blogger June 26, 2015 at 8:43 am | | Reply

      So right. : )

    2. R Zhao
      R Zhao June 26, 2015 at 8:51 am | | Reply

      I think there is a fine line. I agree that it is inherently racist to write off a complete group of people as datable. However, I can completely understand having a preference for a certain type of partner due to sexually attraction (for example, I prefer dark features) or you just have more in common with them culturally. I can also understand why people may prefer or tend to date within their own race–yes, being in a cross-culturally relationship can be very fulfilling and exciting, but it isn’t for everyone. It really takes an open mind, a willingness to compromise, and very good communication skills to make it lasting.

      1. BAP Blogger
        BAP Blogger June 26, 2015 at 8:58 am | | Reply

        It is true that certain thing “get us going”… and I like your take, to be reaponsive to it, enjoy it, but to keep the mind open to the idea of more, the idea that what we find attractive now should not function to exclude positive possibilities in our lives.

      2. marghini
        marghini June 26, 2015 at 10:52 am | | Reply

        I would not equal interracial dating and cross-cultural dating. For example in the US there are a lot of people culturally American but with different heritage. In that case the discrimination would be purely racial, not cultural.

        Otherwise I agree with you that cross-cultural relationships present challenges that not everyone is up for.

        1. R Zhao
          R Zhao June 26, 2015 at 11:11 am | | Reply

          I see what your saying. There is a difference between cross-cultural and interracial dating, but the difference can be slight. In the US, I would argue that there ARE often cultural differences between black Americans and a white Americans, Hispanic Americans and Asian Americans. To pretend these differences don’t exist does an injustice to all minorities. Where I am from, there is a very distinct black community and hispanic community that in many ways have their own traditions and culture and a lot of pride. And to assume we are all more-or-less the same because we are the same nationality isn’t fair. I think this is a very complex issue. I can still understand why people choose to date within their own community because of similar upbringing and beliefs.

    3. Autumn
      Autumn June 26, 2015 at 12:48 pm | | Reply

      Yeah, this is where it gets tricky. Where is the line between racial or cultural prejudice?

      There are two groups of men that I grew reluctant to date due to their profession — police and military personnel. This is both due to unpleasant personal experiences and statistics that show a much, much higher rate of domestic abuse among soldiers and cops. Now, is every police officer or military officer abusive? No, of course not, and some of the guys I dated were lovely. There is, however, a certain personality that is drawn to power. There is also a misogynistic culture that is perpetuated in portions of the military and the police force. I’ve heard the jokes firsthand, and I’ve seen the double standards applied.

      By the time I was in my late twenties, it just wasn’t worth it to invest the time or energy in a guy who was a) statistically more likely to be abusive and b) carried a weapon.

      It might not make me racist, since I din’t care about their skin color. But it does make me prejudiced against two professions. You might even say against two cultures.

  3. Dan
    Dan June 26, 2015 at 11:49 am | | Reply

    Being a 1.5 generation, I had different experiences. I think you are attracted to what you are exposed to. I was not attractive to white girls until I was in America. Once I met plenty of them, I started to prefer white girls. I think they are curvy, fun, prettier and easier to deal with. Also I am attracted to girls with different hair and eyes after meeting girls with beautiful hair and eyes.

    Dating within the same cultural group is definitely easier for most people. If a white girl tells she prefers white guys or a certain type. I am not really offended. It might be true some have prejudice, but I do think most do not. If you are a white girls in America, there are plenty of other white guys you can choose to begin with.

    Having spent enough time being one of the majority in China has made it much easier for me to understand the white majority surrounding me right now.

  4. Autumn
    Autumn June 26, 2015 at 12:26 pm | | Reply

    This post made me stop and think. I have five sisters, some step-sisters, and some ex-stepsisters, etc. We are all white, all from the same region, all from similar socio-economic backgrounds.

    I read this post and I realized that I am the only in my family (so far) who has dated — let alone married — a man who wasn’t white. Maybe it’s because I was the dreaded middle child, always lost in the shuffle, drawn to that which stood out in a way that I never could.

    But I like your explanation better: “..all the white women I dated were awesome. Open, bold, expressive, and fun.”

    Oh, yeah. Pander to my ego, BAP. I am lapping that up. 🙂

    1. BAP Blogger
      BAP Blogger June 26, 2015 at 1:03 pm | | Reply

      I think the ideas mesh well… the woman who seeks beyond the mundane presentation of man in society… and the man who seeks to be released from his mundane presentation.

  5. MM
    MM June 26, 2015 at 4:42 pm | | Reply

    “I am going to spark a bit of controversy here, but I hope the conversation is open enough that I can share a perhaps unpopular point of view: I find the idea of only dating within a selected racial group inherently racist”

    You may be right but what if you are from a specific race ( say white) but you have ‘loads of friends’ from a different racial group (say Chinese) but you choose not to date that group does that make you a racist? You may not want to date them for many reason one being that you’re “not that into them in a romantic/sexual type way” does that make you a racist?

    You may only date white guys but if the white guy is abusive, rude, arrogant you’re not going to date them, if you date a Chinese guys I would say the same thing applies; if they are rude, arrogant, sexist, etc you wouldn’t date them and it’s because of their character and personality not because they are Chinese.

    I will add another spark …..This example is extreme but what is the difference between saying I like (prefer) tea to coffee or I prefer a clean cut guy, I prefer blonds etc ….( why can we easily accept this without too much PC…we’d say ‘for whatever reason that’s what they like” and leave it at that. Maybe you have tried coffee but you ultimately like tea, maybe you’ve never tried coffee because tea is what was always around and you really like tea (you have nothing against coffee you just prefer coffee). Why can’t we accept that individuals may have preference or likes in people or a race ? Why does ‘I prefer” blah, blah, blah people/race make you an automatic racist. Why is it hard for us to simply say say ‘we’ll that’s what they prefer or that’s what they like.

    It seems when it comes to people and race any “grey area” is not acceptable without being labelled as something.

  6. BAP Blogger
    BAP Blogger June 26, 2015 at 11:30 pm | | Reply

    It’s a bit long, but from a recent post I did on that question…


    Those sites have primarily Black and Latino users. Analysis on those data sets yielded similar results. It is common, and I can tell you from personal experience just how common it is, to encounter women who exclude Asian men.

    “I don’t date Asian men,”

    “If you’re an Asian, don’t bother,”

    “No Asians…. It’s just a preference, I’m not racist.”

    What this means to me, is that there is nothing I can do, nothing I can become, and nothing I can achieve that would make me even remotely considerable for a date. That’s pretty harsh. Why? Because you don’t prefer my race…. got it.

    What the numbers say is that there is a systemic racial bias. So maybe you, the person who doesn’t date Asian men, are perfectly not a racist… It’s possible to believe that you got swept into a pool of people nd accurately represent you those numbers. It cannot be the case, however, that no one in that population is acting based on negative racial bias when the numbers show clearly otherwise.

    OkCupid is careful not to step into the debate about who is and is not racist, but you can see for yourself, the tone is clearly one asking him for reconciliation. I’m fine stepping into that debate and I’m saying it is racist.

  7. Eurasian Sad Guy
    Eurasian Sad Guy June 27, 2015 at 1:59 am | | Reply

    Didn’t read all the comments here but the vast majority of anti-Asian sentiment was spearheaded by Asian women and white men.

    Having lived in China, Asian men are by far more family oriented, cordial and kind hearted than white men. Yet Asian women still throw themselves at them.

    I know coming from a home with a terribly, terrible racist white father and an Asian mother that only cared about his whiteness, that these relationships are usually based on hatred, not love. Hence there are so many messed up Eurasian children with Asian mothers making the national news. A Eurasian boy with a white father just got arrest for trying to join ISIS three days ago!

    If I had known that white women would have given me a shot as a half-Asian a long time ago, I would have pursued them. I still believe the majority wouldn’t though, but I am married to an Asian woman who favors Asian men, anyways.

    But with the way things are going I actually will suggest my son either marry white or black, just because I have seen just how disingenuous Asian women really are, especially in my own household. With Asian men now having the highest income and being the most reliable, they would be obvious picks but Asian women would have you think otherwise.

  8. fred
    fred June 27, 2015 at 2:00 am | | Reply

    Hi BAP,

    I can certainly relate to your story. When I was younger, I only wanted to date exclusively Asian girls for many reasons. Later I changed after serveral good experiences with Western women. Now I am married to a white Brazilian lady who is the love of my love. I even adopted the motto: “Once you taste Caucasian, you won’t go Asian.”

    Fred

  9. BAP Blogger
    BAP Blogger June 27, 2015 at 12:48 pm | | Reply

    Fred, hi. Thanks for sharing and for the showing of solidarity. I’m quite pleased you found something and share in something that many need and most lack – an intimate partner. I might caution against throwing every Asian woman into one group despite our common experiences – I have been rejected by more Asian women than non Asian women. Still, my true belief is that many AA women are stuck in a system where their sexuality gets twisted and sacrificed too.

    1. Dan
      Dan June 28, 2015 at 8:08 am | | Reply

      I think most Asian women know what they are doing.
      Also, there are way more attractive Asian women in Asia. I have to overlook most Asian girls in US by appearance alone.

  10. Rdm
    Rdm June 28, 2015 at 1:14 am | | Reply

    I can relate to your personal experience, BAP.

    1. Asian women with no Asian men radar on their partners

    If you stay in the US long enough, you can easily identify Asian women who dates only White guys. We can blame them both genders; we can ridicule them, we can come up with all excuses; try to fill up the empty void or nebulous criteria they have in mind when it comes to Asian guys: manly, masculine, confident, etc etc etc. At the end of the day, the end justifies the means. We see lots of AFWM couples.

    2. Stereotypes

    Believe me, I have commented, contributed, discussed at length on blogs, relationship, article, friends, but sometimes I wonder there are billions of Asian people out there. Stereotypes are there for certain reasons. If they’re not true, they won’t stay long. That’s the nature no matter how hard we fight. During the stereotype transition, there are inevitable struggles on both sides of the world, i.e., the receivers and the observers. Small peenis joke, yea, I get that. If you don’t have, you feel insulted. Again for what? Out of billion people, Yao Ming can’t whip out his and prove the world that the stereotype is wrong. Finally I took some solace from the fact that we are now living in transition phase. With better economy in East Asia, I can only hope next generation of Asians will eat more proteins rather than ToFu.

    3. Divide between Asian Americans and Asians

    I observed that the divide between them are just language and their upbringing. Both sides are inherently intertwined in their DNA, thousand years old tradition passed down upon generation over generation. One side blame on another when stereotypes hit their nerves while the other side blame them as arrogant, ignorant child brats.

    4. White women

    I found that European, Canadian white women in general are just women. Skin color is just an abstract. When it comes to American women, there are two types especially: One who confuses “Feminism” with “Equality” and the other half are just women. When I broach this topic, some of you may think I have an issue with American women. Nope. There are a number of fine American white women I become aware of their quality and personality. They are not loud yet stern, they don’t talk much, yet intelligent. But when you count the percentage, they are gems. You’re most likely to come across obnoxious, loud, talkative American white women. Of course this is a huge brush I’m using for White women, the same as we’ve been used as just an “Asian guy”.

    5. Dating

    I had an experience that dating within your circle of friends, coworkers, acquaintances from friends of friends, etc etc etc plays much higher successful role than just go to bar and hit on girls you see in the bar. Within your circle of friends, you already established your status, characters. But in the bar, you are just an “Asian” guy and you’re just fighting for an uphill battle where you are subconsciously bombarded with “stereotypes”.

    1. Autumn
      Autumn June 28, 2015 at 1:32 am | | Reply

      I’m a white woman, not an Asian guy, and yes, my Chinese-American guy, who is hot, smart, cooks, and dances, was utterly overlooked by no small number of women (of all shapes and colors).

      But once again, I have to say, I see more and more Caucasian women with Asian men. Out last night with a girlfriend, and look, there’s a blonde with an Asian guy in a “Space X” jacket.

      Women aren’t stupid. More opportunities, more education = more AMWF couples.

      Also, feminism IS equality. Certainly the conservative media would like you to believe that feminism is out to castrate and destroy all men. But it’s not, no matter what Fox News says. If you believe women should have the same pay, the same opportunities, and same rights as men, then guess what? Congrats! YOU are a feminist.

      1. Dan
        Dan June 28, 2015 at 8:01 am | | Reply

        Your post #61 is excellent. I am very proud.

        If us Asian men love white women, go get it. Whoever turns their backs on you is not worth it. End of the debate.

      2. TC
        TC June 29, 2015 at 12:36 pm | | Reply

        Heartened to hear your comment and hope that things do get better.

        We Asian guys are out there… it’s not a matter of “go get it” – God knows we do try.

        It’s more a case of we don’t know which doors to knock and many white girls have blocked their choices without much thinking.

    2. BAP Blogger
      BAP Blogger June 28, 2015 at 4:43 am | | Reply

      I hear you my friend, especially on the internalization aspect. For me, this was a challenge, a huge challenge, to even think about, to admit that I am subjected to an environment where I can do little to change preexisting biases.

      My habit, when I sense conflict, is one of two things… get ready for the fight or get going. in bracing myself, what I did was overlook the allies I had gained from my emotional pleas by continuing in a me-against-all mentality (reasonable but not viable).

      I think that people aren’t trying to hurt each other in this arena as much as they’re trying to deal with their own pain.

  11. Rdm
    Rdm June 28, 2015 at 1:15 am | | Reply

    I don’t know if anyone of you notice,

    it’s beautiful

    http://shanghaiist.com/2015/05/19/dance-chinese-russian-couple-wows-couples.php

    1. Autumn
      Autumn June 28, 2015 at 1:33 am | | Reply

      Yes. Yes, it is.

  12. xeonfuzion
    xeonfuzion June 28, 2015 at 3:19 pm | | Reply

    Asian men prefer white women? No , maybe you do from being brainwashed by soceity to go for the white women , just like it brainwashes women regardless of color to go for white men only. Don’t be an Uncle Chan(reference to uncle tom). Go for women , regardless of color. going for white women just means playing into societies hidden spoon-feeding that “White is right”.

    1. BAP Blogger
      BAP Blogger June 28, 2015 at 5:15 pm | | Reply

      Well, I’m not sure we disagree… I’m assuming you read to the end right? Regardless, your point would be just as strong and perhps better taken by more people if it were less personally pointed. We’re having a talk not an argument.

  13. David
    David June 29, 2015 at 7:43 am | | Reply

    This is kind of tangential to the discussion on stereotypes, but I wonder if there are any lessons that can be learned from the drive to legalize same-sex marriages. To me, as a straight male, it went from an issue that I had no idea about and didn’t think about at all, to the recent Supreme Court decision fairly quickly.

    In my opinion, the situation that men of Asian descent (at least in the US) face is similarly something that most others are either not aware of or they don’t think it’s much of a problem. In fact, reports on the “high” incomes of Asian-Americans or other model minority BS may make people hostile to AMs who complain. (I realize that it’s not always easy for Asian females either, but to be de-sexualized like what happens to AMs, especially in today’s society, is really to be made into a “non-person”). The movement for same-sex marriages had a lot allies from straight people, so somehow they were able to build allies across several groups. I’m planning to look into the strategies (if any) used, but wondered if someone had already analyzed this.

    Anyway, those are just my thoughts – am open to other ways to proactively build support for AMs and other groups that don’t get as much attention.

  14. Jackson
    Jackson June 29, 2015 at 11:19 pm | | Reply

    Asian men can prefer white women…as long as they are not from the US South…better safe than sorry….Texan from Tokyo does not count…she grew up all over the world..

    http://www.concordmonitor.com/home/17438076-95/my-turn-south-carolina-has-a-long-history-of-violent-racism

  15. anon
    anon July 3, 2015 at 5:34 pm | | Reply

    Not my post, but I found on a forum it may be interesting.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/comments/3bl100/a_view_of_amwf_from_australia/

    First up, whilst the asian male experience in both anglo nations can be similar, i think the subtle cultural differences between Oz (Australia) and the US make for a profound difference when it comes to amwf dating.

    Australia has a relatively egalitarian culture compared to the US and we’re a younger nation that’s been more exposed to multiculturalism than our American counterparts. This means that ethnic enclaves in the big metropolitan areas tend to be the outlier, rather than the norm. In schools, asians and whites mix together and interracial dating tends to occur. Yes, Australians can be flippantly racist but more often than not, my experience around the cities and the country has been that the racism comes more from ignorance rather than racial ideology although with the rise of China, i’m sensing a lot of white anglo anxiety and race wars sentiment coming from the major media groups like fairfax media and rupert murdoch’s media.

    Compare this to my experiences in America which were that all the races stick with their own; despite American being touted as a melting pot, it’s a melting pot where the parts refuse to mix, specifically, the white anglo female americans despite being charmed by an Asian with an Aussie accent, still felt the need to re-assert some form of racial solidarity. There were more shit tests (sorry, had to use the RP term lol)with white american girls than were observed amongst australian girls.

    My view is that in general, anglo Australian women are more open to dating asian men, as opposed to their sheltered racially conscious american cousins, because 1) liberal, agnostic/atheistic views held by the Australian general public 2) egalitarian culture 3) Chinese and other asians have been a consistent part of Australian history in spite of the equivalent of the China Exclusion Act here in Australia: the White Australia Policy.

    On that note however, i’m sensing a disturbing americanisation of Australian discourse which pits an ‘us vs them’ mentality between white australians and Chinese Australians especially in light of the US desire to pivot to Asia. The Chinese are to be the big bad guys of the new century and the valiant white anglo collective will ride to the rescue after the south east Asians and Japanese have exhausted themselves fighting fellow Asians for the white man. You know the drill, but that’s more for another thread.

    EDIT: Thought i’d expand a bit on my experiences, anecdotally of course. I date all races, whites, asians, lebanese etc and what i’ve found is that a lot of the resistance against my dating anglo australian girls tends to come from white american students here in oz or surprisingly, baby boomers across both sexes. I’m discounting some butthurt anglo australian men who would understandably feel inferior about an asian man getting with an attractive white girl whereas he has to go home and beat his meat. Thankfully that tends to be a rarity and i’m not even going to mention certain anglo australian women who are all about keeping the flower of white supremacy free of yellow taint (yet seem to have no problems with the BBC). But i digress, a lot of the resistance against amwf has mostly come from older Australians in their 50s-60s; i even had a 60ish co-worker once say to me: ” why don’t you date someone in your own race?!” like wtf, who says that? And i reckon it’s like what former PM of Singapore said of Americans coping with a rising China; he said that it was very hard for americans (and to an extent, anglos) to accept as an equal, a race of people to which they were used to lording over and seeing as submissive and inferior. That’s really the root cause and stem of the problems these older Australians have, after all, if they were young and hot and desirable, do you think they’d have a problem? No, and because noone wants to fuck them, their only source of validation is a sense of racial superiority, a legacy to hand off to their descendants before they buy the farm. So what happens when they foresee a future where desirable young and fertile anglo women are committing to Asian men? See the source of their discontent?

    EDIT2: Let me also illustrate the differences between the WF in Australia and the US; Australian girls are more open to flirtation, more responsive to being hit on by asian men than their American counterparts. With American white girls, i’d say 75% of approaches led to a brick wall or cockblock based on nothing other than the fact that the guy hitting on them was an Asian male (eww!!!). Race was rarely a factor unless the asian male had such a heavy accent that picking up girls renders the approach null and void.

  16. D-Maybe
    D-Maybe July 5, 2015 at 1:46 pm | | Reply

    That’s an interesting post indeed, Anon. I’m a little surprised by the guy’s belief that Americans are more racist than Aussies, especially in terms of the social conditions at the national level. Certainly, he is correct in that the US is leading the charge in the effort to preserve the Anglo-American domination of the world (though with Obama, a black man, as the president, the effort has been very disappointing to many a white person), but you can be sure that if the Aussies were the reigning global hegemon they would be doing exactly the same thing, only with more forcefulness and less “PC” sympathies for the brown people.

    I do, however, agree with the guy’s point about how white Aussie chicks are more open to Asian men than their American counterparts. It seems to me that Aussie chicks in general are just easier to get along with and it’s a quality that I find amongst Brit-ish and Kiwi (New Zealand) chicks too. American women on the other hand tend to be well versed in PUA tactics and so they instinctively have a bitch shield up against even the most charming of white men. The ironic thing here is that white Americans are often less “white” than their Aussie and British counterparts because many of them have Native American and even African ancestry.

  17. New Man
    New Man July 8, 2015 at 2:05 pm | | Reply

    Interesting article.. What I can say is that I’m an Asian man and I find white women very attractive and am hoping that one day I will find the right Caucasian lady.

  18. Lena
    Lena August 8, 2015 at 12:53 am | | Reply

    Love this post. Have no idea how it must feel being single Asian in an almost white community. Or, well, after I’ve started dating Asian guys and is crazy about Asian culture, I do get upset when I’m at home in the Danish countryside where it seems like most people think Asia is a weird place, foreigners are bad and everything else that isn’t Danish isn’t okay. So maybe I do understand a bit anyway though it’s all new to me still.

    Anyway, great writing 🙂 will check out your blog too

  19. BAP Blogger
    BAP Blogger August 30, 2015 at 10:53 am | | Reply

    Thanks very much Lena.

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