When I’m in China, I tend to turn a lot of heads, especially in the countryside — and that’s not just because I’m a foreigner. It’s because I’m often seen holding hands with my Chinese husband.
It’s true — the sight of a foreign woman and Chinese boyfriend or Chinese husband is much rarer than its counterpart, the foreign man and Chinese woman.
If you go to any major city in China, you will invariably run into the foreign man-Chinese woman pairings in any major tourist or shopping destination; not so with foreign women and Chinese men. It’s easy to gauge this reality on the website Candle for Love (CFL), devoted to helping US Americans bring their loved ones over from China. CFL is like a tidal wave of American men in love with Chinese women, with only a rare American woman/Chinese husband surfacing to break the monotony.
There are hardly enough books depicting foreign women with Chinese boyfriends or husbands. Off the top of my head, I can think of Rachel DeWoskin’s Foreign Babes in Beijing: Behind the Scenes of a New China
Several years ago, when my husband enrolled in a New Oriental class in Shanghai for GRE prep, the instructor warned all of the Chinese men: “If you’re going to study abroad, prepare for four lonely years.” The underlying message was, don’t expect to fall in love — but be pleasantly surprised if it happens.
When you have a Chinese husband or boyfriend, sometimes you feel as if you belong to a lonely club. I’m not the only one. One of my dearest e-mail friends, a woman from Germany, once found me on the net because she had a — then — Chinese boyfriend and yearned to find someone to share her experience with.
So I began to wonder — why are there so few Chinese guys and foreign girls becoming couples?
Of course, some of it has its roots in the usual stereotypes — stereotypes in the Western World.
According to Sheridan Prasso’s book, The Asian Mystique: Dragon Ladies, Geisha Girls, & Our Fantasies of the Exotic Orient
If there are some admirable aspects of the portrayals of Asian women in Hollywood and on TV, it’s hard to say the same of the portrayals of Asian men. Rarely have they been depicted with traditionally masculine traits. With a few exceptions, Asian men on screen have been small, sneaky and threatening — or spineless, emasculated wimps, or incompetents who may well be technically proficient in martial arts, but impotent when faced with white man’s superior strength or firepower. Lacking machismo, they almost never get the girl.
The article Sex & the Asian Man also touches on many of Prasso’s observations, including the passionless warrior:
Even today, Asian American men complain that action heroes such as Chow Yun Fat and Jackie Chan rarely get the girl. As Leong, the author and UCLA professor put it: “Asian men can kick butt, but they can’t have a kiss.”
It gets a little more personal in blogs, such as posts titled Us Bitter, Bitter Asian Men or Sucks to be an Asian male.
Still, there’s another perspective.
I’ve had Chinese guys refuse me because they felt, as a traditional man, they could never see themselves married to a foreign girl. However, the subtext is often that foreign women are a dangerous choice — too casual, the temptress, etc — or could not accept a Chinese way of life. Generally, the pressure to split up comes from the family since, after all, in China, marriage is a family affair.
There was one Chinese boyfriend who told me, flat out, that his parents would never accept me. I don’t doubt he loved me in the beginning — but once his family knew, I suspect they made it clear that there was no future in what we had. Even my own husband was first told by his parents that he could be friends with a foreign girl, but not date her. Fortunately, their ideas changed when they met me in person!
On the other hand, there are Chinese men — and their families — who would be happy to have a foreign woman in the family. But there are other complications. For example, my good friend in Hangzhou, Xiao Yu, once told me that some Chinese men cannot overcome their feeling of inferiority — that being an American girl, a citizen of one of the most powerful countries in the world, made my presence somewhat intimidating. According to Xiao Yu, some Chinese men could never believe that such a girl would become their one and only.
And then there are the more unmentionable reasons.
A driver who took me to the Beijing Airport this summer admitted he once had a Russian girlfriend when he was a college student. But he said he was never able to satisfy her (yes, in that way), so they parted. The experience was so traumatic that he never sought another foreign girlfriend again.
On the flip side, I suspect that some foreign women might be unwilling to give Chinese men a chance because of money. Average Chinese men tend not to earn big salaries in China, unless they are, for example, bosses, high-powered execs, or an in-demand talent. And if they are to leave China to go to her country, they will face even more obstacles to earning money — language, culture, prejudices.
Still, despite the odds, sterotypes and other barriers, it does happen that Chinese men and foreign women get together. It happened for me — and a growing number of other women, including bloggers such as the Local Dialect, The Downtown Diner, and Wo Ai Ni. On occasion, it even creeps into the news, like this story.
For now, though, I’m just happy to have John, my Chinese husband, in my life. Not because he’s a Chinese man, or because our relationship is “unique” or different. But because I love him.
Are you a foreign woman with a Chinese boyfriend/Chinese husband? Or are you a Chinese man dating or married to a Chinese woman? What’s your take on this? What did I miss? I’d love to hear from you!
Awesome post. So true. I too, am a white woman with an Asian male partner. We live in NY, though, where maybe it’s not quite as uncommon. I do know, however, that we draw interested eyes.
If you liked FOREIGN BABES IN BEIJING, you should check out DeWoskin’s REPEAT AFTER ME–it’s a novel, and, I think, even better than her memoir.
Thanks a ton for the comment — I’m so thrilled to hear from other women like myself!
Actually, I did mention Repeat after me in there (it was right after Foreign Babes) — and I agree, the book is even better than Foreign Babes.
Hi, I came accross your site after I googled English girls and Chinese guys. I broke up yesterday with a Chinese guy I’ve dated for a month, I really liked him and our cultural differences didn’t seem so bad at first. In some posts on here it states how Chinese see educational achievement higher than anything else, but being a bit geeky myself I thought it wouldnt matter. Problems did arise and I tried to talk about it with him but he took great offense, and he seemed to have no idea why I had a problem with him telling me don’t do physical jobs, don’t go shopping there because Chinese girls wouldn’t. I stated from the start that I’m independent, and I drive cranes and trucks for a living, so to get told to change my job was not something I could consider. So a mixture of being controlled and him staring at me all the time because he thought i was awesome was really full on. But had to end it after him telling me to not to eat cake because I’ll get fat, and whenever I ate with him he’d tell me “slow down, don’t choke’, like I was an animal at the dinner table! I had a complex on its way, and I am not fat, I’m very muscley and fit because I’m a semi-professional fighter, so I didn’t understand his logic in telling me I’m fat. But also, I know this could very well be a personal thing with just him and I’m in no way thinking all Chinese men are like this! I’m trying to stay friends with him because he’s a nice person but I think now he hates me ! Any advice would be nice thank you 🙂
Great post!
In my incredibly unscientific study (just completed after reading your post), I have concluded that white woman/Asian men couples tend to live in the West more than in China. Any thoughts on this?
Dan,
Good question. I think your unscientific suggestion holds some truth to it. Many of the Chinese husband/foreign woman couples I met several years ago ended up living permanently in the West. There is something to be said for that golden green card and, later, foreign passport, which liberates the Chinese from, among other things, those hukou headaches.
That said, I’ve also found that a lot more foreign women end up living permanently with their Chinese husbands in China (more than, say, their foreign husband/Chinese wife counterparts). My exceedingly unscientific guess is that many of us first go to China for personal reasons (to improve our Mandarin, career opportunities, interest in the culture, etc) and therefore are already committed to the country. On the other side, our husbands, if they have specialized talents or skills, may feel more comfortable pursuing their career in their home country (where they might feel less marginalized), or may simply see many more opportunities in China. Plus, the support of your Chinese family could be a bonus (depending on your relationship with the inlaws, of course!) if you choose to have kids, since the inlaws can often provide a hand in raising your children.
Thandelike,
thanks for sharing your experience, and insights into these relationships. I have felt similarly with some Chinese men, who definitely didn’t see me as acceptable at some level.
Maybe I’ve just been incredibly lucky to have found my husband, who really accepts and embraces me for who I am — independence and feminism included!
Jean,
I would agree there is racism in China, which is often not recognized. I think your comment about how foreign women might “threaten Chinese cultural norms” is probably what’s in the back of many Chinese families’ minds, when they discourage a relationship w/ a foreign woman.
There are definitely a lot of sham marriages out there between Chinese wife/Foreign husband couples, but I am not sure that this is the majority of relationships. I would argue that many more Chinese women simply are looking for love that may not be so available in China because they are divorced (HUGE stigma in China), or too old (women 30 or older are often considered undesirable as wives). And it doesn’t hurt that the relationship offers prestige in the eyes of their family/friends (foreign passport, foreign husband) plus a more comfortable life.
I grew up in a progressive American town with traditional Asian male role models (my judo instructors). That makes me unusual, I know. However, I cannot think of a combination more prone to heartache than a typical Western woman and a traditional Eastern man. You note how hard it is for the Easterners to accept the Western woman. It’s also a real trial for the Western woman to *become acceptable* in the eyes of her Asian mate, and often goes against the grain of everything she’s been taught about her independence. I spent 6 years with a man of Chinese origin, five of those years in Asia. Hardest thing I ever did. But many of the lessons I learned have helped me meld with my Eurasian (Turkish) husband’s culture and family.
Thanks for the post, glad to meet you all.
I think Chinese men, not ethnically Chinese, but as actually from China are
disgusting. They are rude, smell bad, treat women like shit, and are usually uneducated and stupid. Of course, normal women aren’t attracted to them!What Pookie said may be the exact self-introduction of him/herself.To think that one whole nation is bad is a symptom of brainwashing. Using a deleted line doesn’t cover the words, I suggest such kind of posts should be erased and the IP should be bannd.
Pookie is just a jelly white loser who dated an Asian girl with citizenship offer. One thing white guys don’t know, especially the trashy ones, in Asia only problematic women who needs money would date a white guy. The normal ones wouldn’t even think about the hairy albino men.
I think Chinese culture is more racist than most realize. Call it ethno-centric, traditional, whatever, it’s all mostly the same. Since men are generally more invested in the privileges accorded them by that culture, they are less likely to want a woman from another culture, especially one that may threaten Chinese cultural norms. You see this pattern in Japan or in Taiwan; yet, men in those countries will fairly often marry foreign women, but ones from lower status in other lower status Asian countries. Japanese men with poor Vietnamese wives, etc.
And yes it is true that there are far more Chinese women with foreign men, but a great many of those couples break up, and sad to say, a good many of those marriages are based on the woman cheating the man so she can get a visa to live in Europe or America (definitiely not Vietnam).
ha! i can’t believe i missed it–sorry! but glad you felt the same way i did re: repeat after me.
I think the cultural barriers and negative stereotype is the biggest hurdles within a relationship. Traditional Chinese by cultural instinct tend to be conservative, not just in relationship but in every part of their social life. If you look at Chinese people and how they are brought up, then you would understand how this psychological dynamic works, it is quite fascinating from both psychological and cultural anthropology point of view.
Firstly, Chinese people are brought up with this idea that parents know the best, everything they say is true and you must be obedient to your parent’s wishes/command. But most people with any sort of mental capacity would know that these thinkings are not always true, and sometimes outright wrong. However, since most Chinese people are brought like that, and most of their reference groups are also Chinese people with similar upbringing, therefore chinese people tend accept these myths as the law of the land.
The second problem, which is that Chinese people marry not just for the sake of marrying. The marriage must bring benefits to the whole family, so everyone must get along together (not just between the couples) and people must be able to communicate ‘harmoniously’ together.
Also, divorces are seen as a big no no in China, despite the fact that it is increasing in the major chinese cities each year. And most Chinese people have this false notion that people in the western societies have a higher divorce rate. You would often see Chinese couple who loath each other to death, and probably don’t even share a bed, yet remain married to each other for the benefits of their offspring or their financial situation.
Lastly, Chinese have a mentality that most westerners women are a nymphet, probably from all the stories they heard from the so called trustworthy source, which is further reinforced by some strange news media reports. While, from a pure genetic and physiological point of view this is true; as the Chinese people tend to have less exercise when they are young (nerds anyone) and people with the brain not the brawn tend to be more successful at finding mates, which feeds back onto itself to create the ultimate geek. Furthermore, those Chinese people whom tend to migrate overseas are not the hard labourers, but people with certain degrees of education, which almost all Chinese aspire to as the ultimate form of life achievement. So basically nerds breed nerds…. Chinese people in most oversea countries don’t exile in the sporting field, nor do they really go to gyms much, but if you look at the library and all the finest universities they are all over-representated.
So for those Chinese men whom are brave enough to go against their upbringings and date a western women, heavy odds are stacked against them. Also, the fact that unless the lady has significant Chinese cultural and language skills, there will be a large communication barrier. If these men’s girlfriend or wife go back to China with them, then they basically have no friend/family supports that they can fall back on and living in a land that maybe totally foreign usually doesn’t bid well for the longevity of the relationships.
While, for those Chinese man whom dates and marry a western women, then like in most relationships they will have arguments about certain things. There is probably a lot of arguments especially if they don’t share all the same cultural and social values, like going out with male friends and going to nightclubs etc. Then there is a matter of sex, which brings up further point of conflicts. As they say no relationship is ever lasting, and it will only last as long as you want it to last. Also, most westerners tend to be quite straight forward in their criticism, and most Chinese men are bad at taking criticisms. All of which, results in a big negative experiences for the Chinese men, which is further reinforced by the negative advices that he is conjuring up about this ‘type’ of relationship, like most people do when they are mentally hurt. Split up or divorce usually ends this relationship, and once bitten, twice shy, this person probably wouldn’t court a western girls again. He will probably make sure his Chinese friends don’t either.
However, not all is lost, as more ABC Chinese kids are dating and marrying western girls. These relationship is usually more stable, as ABC Chinese kids have probably grown up in the western society, can speak English and are not that overtly negative about whom their children dates, as long as they are not some druggies, criminal or other undesirables.
I’m glad I didn’t marry. Although I am a Chinese Lady, I wasn’t born in The United States. I remembered back then, I had days when I was Golden-Skinned, or Ruddy like other Caucasians in my youth. But, there are only two kinds of men regardless of being under Western, or Eastern Tradition. My impression of the first being manly in manner of speech, not-so-cool, uncivilized, and always following the rules just like why they are from a nation that joined The Plain Language Organization. The second being outgoing, effeminate, civilized, very expressive, and more open. It’s the latter being loyal to women, and the former being loyal to men. And I’m glad I didn’t have to play a role of having personality patterns like these. There is no compromise. And I’m glad I didn’t have to be with men who are uncivilized, manly in a manner of speech, and always following the rules.
The stupid stereotype against asian men:
This racist old american doctrine had its root in the early of 19th century slavery era and in many states most white americans just supported the idea to avoid contacts with the black plantation workers or the Mulatos. Although the asians were not a part of negroid slavery…unlike blacks… The mine workers from japan and china came in 1870 to the westcoast… So in 1880 …3500 asian men had irish american wives in san fransisco.. So many white american men were upset..they believed the mixed couples could emasculate and inbalance the white man’s superiority..in fact asian men had won the hearts of many white women at that time… These white men just demanded a new law in the congress…a chinese exclusion act was born in the 1880s.. so the white women had to be indoctrinated to accept the emasculating of asian man (created by white man) …this stupid false doctrine SADLY still continues to the new generation in the US. The USA is still a f***ed up 270-year-old young racist country in the dating history.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-miscegenation_laws_in_the_United_States?fbclid=IwAR0hMxHqq0QfWMnOFm1vlgdxVhvp2CYDrgfnnfRC4yJ160EOHUxC4P0k5Iw
Good post.
I’d highly recommend the first comment to read DeWoskin’s “Repeat after me.” It’s unreadable. I checked it out of the library and returned it halfway in. It’s extremely disappointing because “Foreign Babes in Beijing” was such a special book.
Really interesting post! I’m a Chinese-American guy who’s been dating my white girlfriend for a few years now, but it took me a while to get over the awkwardness that *other people* feel about it. I also agree with the portrayal of Asian guys in Western media as the geekier, wussier, and smaller (in every way) race that doesn’t speak English well. That image pervades society and it affects us daily. When I was in law school, I had a guy tell me that “White guys are Asian guys’ Kryptonite.” It took all my self-restraint not to wail on him!
That said, I think Asian guys need to feel less insecure about themselves, and I’m glad you address that in your post. I have lots of friends who admit they feel sheepish or intimidated around non-Asian girls, and all their wit and charm fly out the window. Hopefully we all start lightening up.
Great post! Keep posting!
Matt,
Thanks for the comment! Your mentioning of
really hit home with me.
We feel it regularly here ourselves, in microaggressive actions towards my husband. For example, when he came back to his grad student office (which he shares), the other students had moved his desk behind the door — without asking his permission — to give his most coveted window spot to another girl. Meanwhile, the other day one of his fellow grad students gave him a client case to handle, and was concerned he wouldn’t be able to make a phone call! Sometimes I think people look at my husband — who appears 18 to many Americans, and speaks with a gentle voice in English (mind you, his English is excellent) — and they think he’s not capable, or he can just be easily taken advantage of.
Hi —
There are a few more reasons I think the Chinese guy/foreign woman pairing is not common.
1. Age: Until the 00’s, it wasn’t that easy to come to China to study, so I’d guess a majority of foreign women who came to China did it after graduating from college. It seems like Chinese people pair up pretty young, so buy the time a foreign woman comes at age 22+, a lot of good guys are spoken for.
2. Educational level: Most foreign women who come to China have at least a BA, whereas until recently it was rare for Chinese people to get a higher education. In China, just like in the US, guys feel awkward about dating a woman who has a higher educational level than they do. That was something that kept me apart from a man for a long time (but we are going to try to get over that).
3. Money: Expats usually get higher salaries than locals, and again, guys often don’t want to date women who get a higher salary than they do. This came up with my friend as well — he said he’d “lose face,” and that other men would look down on him if he dated a woman who made more than he did.
4. The fact that other expats can be dicks when they find out you’re dating an Asian man. I’ve gotten this from both men and women. People can be very nasty when they find out you’re even willing to date a local. For some reason, they also think they can ask you very personal questions about your boyfriend’s body, about sex with them, etc., which is pretty gross not only because it is intrusive, but because it sort of applies you’re willy-nilly having sex with a lot of people.
However, because more and more young people coming to China to study, and more and more Chinese people going to the US to study, I think more young people will get a chance to meet and fall in love in a natural way. More Chinese men than before are going to college, and Chinese salaries seem to be rising (relative to expat ones). I think because of these three things, we’ll start seeing a growth of the number of foreign woman/Chinese guy relationships, because some of the hurdles will be taken away. Problem #4 still remains, I guess, but I hope over time, people will become less prejudiced. I mean, there are more than half a billion men in China. Is it so hard to believe that some of them would be cool?
Good luck to you and your husband!
MF
Your experience as an American white woman in China, reminded me of my own experiences as a Japanese woman in her own country, Japan. LOL So I’m married to an American here in the US.
They have a very similar family values in Japan, although I understand that the importance of family is emphasized more in China, as in Japan they often put their company they work for, or government first before family. (Correct me if I’m wrong.) I think it’s great that you and your husband could break through he barrier to kindle your love for one another. Much happiness to you and your husband, as well as his family who were able to see beyond the cultural and racial difference.
Jocelyn, excellent post and MUCH appreciated. You might also want to check out Marguerite Duras, who wrote two very sensual books on the coupling between an Asian man and a young French woman. It’s not the best example, but makes for very interesting reading.
So much to add on this subject, but I’ll try to keep it short…
I myself am a white chick from New York who was previously engaged to a Chinese man while living in Shandong Province; we encountered many issues during that relationship directly because of our differences in race, language and culture. The stares and comments were, at times, rather unbearable and my ex-fiance even managed to find himself in a brawl with a few Beijing officials after they made several rude comments about us while we were attempting to eat dinner in peace. The expectations of his family further complicated matters, as did his own feelings of inadequacy and the silly power struggles we had between us. Our relationship disintegrated for reasons unrelated to racial divides, but societal/cultural pressures certainly added to our problems.
Now, I am in a serious relationship with another Asian man- he is Filipino, but often gets mistaken for Chinese or Mongolian (the guessing game of “what are you?” annoys him). As we currently live in NYC, we very rarely encounter strange looks or comments- interracial relationships of all kinds are pretty commonplace here. Furthermore, he has been living in the US for the better part of his life and we thus share the same culture, language, etc. That stated, we recently took a trip to China together and encountered a multitude of problems nearly every day because of race- from a hostess at a restaurant assuming that I was a Russian prostitute simply because I was with a tall Asian man to being bombarded with questions by strangers on a 30 hour train ride to dealing with random comments about what our kids might look like. China has definitely accepted the white male/Asian female dynamic; its reverse is still looked at as an inappropriate curiosity.
Call it luck of the draw, but the majority of meaningful relationships I’ve had have been with Asian men and I therefore find myself most attracted to Asian men. From personal experience, they have been better conversationalists, more values-oriented, romantic and logical. I guess this is stereotyping just as some white guys assume that Chinese women make the best wives, but my experiences have definitely shaped my preferences.
Hopefully more non-Asian women will give Asian men a chance instead of writing them off so quickly…
Thanks again for writing this, and all the best to you and your husband!
Hmmm, actually I’m not sure whether it’s as rare as it may superficially seems outside of mainland China, especially among the more established Overseas Chinese communities. If you go on a weekend to the many popular dim sum restaurants in the Chinatowns around the world you’ll come across just as many Asian men-White female couples and their children as vice-versa. Also many Asian men, especially after having kids, become much more family orientated and seldom frequent bars or go out, so you just have to know where and when to look.
Speaking from personal family experience, a paternal great grandfather of mine, who was the scion of a rice merchant family in Hong Kong got into a spot of trouble with the police around the turn of the century and skip-a-hopped to San Francisco to escape the short arm of the law. Five years later, he came back with an Irish American wife, who became his no. 2 wife among the three wives he had in total. Ever since then, that branch of the family occasionally throws up some interesting caucasian gene markers followed by lots of family teasings.
As for myself, I dated a German and a Swedish girl in and after high school for many years, but having grown up in the West and always seeing “White” faces all the time, I got a little home/culture/ethnic-sick and pretty much knew I’ll probably marry Asian/Chinese in the end and was just lucky that love came with the package.
Ultimately, cultural barriers and obstacles are only an issue if both partners let it become an issue and stereotype only matters if you let it get to you, for it says more about their fear and ignorance than about yourself.
Btw, best of luck.
Culture is one factor.
There may be a physiological factor.
Consider the fact that many white women choose black men, but very few white men choose black women.
Is it possible that genetically determined, physical differences have caused this?
I’ve been married to my Chinese husband for almost 20 years now. One thing that made our relationship easier was that his parents were very modern and accepted the relationship early on. Also, he lived in the U.S. for several years before we met, I had done alot of traveling myself including in Asia, he was very educated, and we both embraced many feminist ideals. My parents had the stereotype of Chinese men as “hard working” and reliable, so they were fine with it. As my boyfriend before we got married, we talked openly about our relationship expectations and cultural differences, and often when a conflict arose we would take a step back and talk about whether or not it was cultural. Often it probably wasn’t, but this “stepping back” helped us to settle the conflict more easily. We still have some things that pop up occassionally (we’re living in China right now), and we certainly get the stares. But we’re in it for the long haul, love each other, and feel like we both hit the jackpot (best of two worlds!) which we now share along with our 2 kids. I am betting that we’ll see more of these couplings as time marches on.
@Warren
LOL, go do a *ahem* statistical survey on Asian “genetically determined, physical differences”. Who knows, you might enjoy it lots.
Next thing you know, you’ll start measuring a Jew’s nose too.
Wow, some excellent comments coming in.
MF,
You brought up some super-interesting points I didn’t even touch on. Though I’d say, on your #1 point, that there are still plenty of available guys in China in their mid-twenties, at least from my incredibly unscientific experience. (I met my husband post-graduate age too!). I like your comment “I mean, there are more than half a billion men in China. Is it so hard to believe that some of them would be cool?”
Yuko,
What a small world that my experience could speak to you as a Japanese woman in Japan. Wish you the best with your American husband!
Aimee,
I loved your post — what a touching (and heartbreaking) story of love in China. So many of your experiences are familiar to me (the rudeness of Beijing officials, “the Russian prostitute” comments from strangers) and I am so honored to get a look into your personal story. Thank you so much for sharing, and the best to you and your Filipino boyfriend!
Shirong,
What a fascinating point on the overseas Chinese communities — something I didn’t consider. Thanks for sharing!
Warren,
Thanks for the comment, though I have to agree with Shirong’s comment above on this.
Susan,
It’s so fantastic to hear from a woman married to a Chinese husband for nearly 20 years, and making it work with a family in China. Congratulations to you!
I think, beyond the challenges presented by Western stereotypes of Asian men, it is unfair to generalize. MF and Shirong have nailed it, but other commentators are wrongly assuming their experiences are universal.
If I took my experiences as universal, I’d be arguing that AM/WF pairings are the norm. I’ve lived in China for over a decade and dated many Mainland Chinese men, relationships lasting between six weeks and six years. None were “Westernized” or spoke English, but that was never a problem – nor were their families or racism, etc. My professional success is a bit threatening to the Chinese guys I date, but much less so than to the white and/or Western guys I’ve dated.
I am part of a community of Sinified foreign women who are mostly happily married to Mainland Chinese men. It has much to do with that we are a bohemian crowd of artists, musicians, designers, etc. In that it makes sense: these are Chinese men focused on creative pursuits who want to escape the fiscal priorities and pressures presented by most (certainly not all, but exceptions are rare) Chinese women; and ambitious, transgressive white etc women looking to escape the traditionalism and machismo of “Western” men.
“Foreign Babes in Beijing” is an awful book, insulting to foreign women living here. She took two brief relationships with Chinese men and exploited them to reinforce the worst stereotypes of them. Chinese men have their relational challenges (I should know – I have broken up with many), but so do all men, and those challenges are diversely individual, rarely the expected stereotype. I’ll grant that they’re spoild and entitled, but again so are men from all patriarchal societies. Spend a few years in China watching all the white boys who believe themselves entitled to easy access to the bodies of each and every Chinese woman and you’ll too end up with a comparative appreciation of the considerate and subtle romanticism of many Chinese men.
This was a very interesting post for me, especially as I have recently started dating a Chinese man. We have only been on two dates and I already can see some of the issues you have described.
The staring is the WORST. I’m already used to people staring at me as a “Laowai”, but sitting in a restaurant alone with an Asian man is guaranteed to have everyone turning their heads and whispering to themselves. My date had to keep muttering “Ignore them, ignore them, ignore them,” under his breath because I was getting so uncomfortable.
The other problem is the traditional gender roles. As both a man and the “host”, he feels he has to pay… but I make three times as much as him. Sometimes I worry that he thinks he has to take me to nice restaurants to keep me happy and save face, something he can ill-afford. I don’t want to embarrass or hurt him by paying, but I worry about this constantly.
We’ll see. I like him very much, and I will try and keep the communication as open and honest as possible to keep cultural issues like this from destroying our fragile and new relationship.
I’m not interested because of they hygiene issues. I cannot stand spitting, hocking loogies, nose picking, nail clipping, foot scratching, etc etc etc in public. Most Chinese men I know are fine with that.
and it’s disgusting. Bad, Bad, Bad personal hygiene.
Andi- I hope you can take it from someone who has been there; if you can tell him exactly as you have in your comment here, and make compromises about who pays (etc.), & also if you can start talking about the culture differences, you may find smoother sailing as your relationship progresses. After being married to a chinese national for 20 years (this December), I can remember back when we faced similar things, but putting it out on the table (gingerly) really worked. Now that we’re a middle-aged couple with 2 kids, it’s gotten easier. We still get major stares and whispers, but it bugs our kids more than us. Enjoy!
Dial- Most of the chinese men I know would never do those things! But then, most of the Chinese men whom I know well are highly educated, live in urban (or non-China) places, and they’ve dealt enough with the West and westerners to understand (and even appreciate) our aversion to those things. Likewise, I think if we’re in China we should try to understand why many Chinese persist with these habits; it’s certainly not intended as an afront to us from the west.
My Chinese father and Australian mother started dating in the mid 1960’s married and my sister and my self were born 1970 – 72….for me as a child i experienced a good 15 years of staring and whispering and often my mother was complimented on the ‘exotic’ looks of her children. BUT,,, considering the period of history that they got together, they copped some awful bigotry in Australia and Asia (generally from Caucasian people) – comments which I myself when hearing them as a teenager would have been willing to physically fight over. I’ve lived in China now for 5 years and I could count on 2 hands the amount of times i have seen a Chinese man with a Caucasian woman every time i do I secretly rooting for the “right on brother…:)!”
….funnily enough I have 5 friends over here….all mid to late 30’s who all have Chinese fathers/Caucasian mothers…for so long I was the only I knew, until i moved here….strange that.
i so long ago stopped seeing ethnicity it is hard to relate to this article .. behavior, yes, i notice that .. but skin/face? impossible … the aura, now, i notice that ….
and especially this is true with people i love …
me thinks some growth still needs to happen for people caught up in gender/race/ethnicity issues, pro or con ..
enjoy
When I told my friends that I would like to find a foreign gf, almost all of them immediately asked me how my parents were gonna say about this. I said my parents were okay with this and were actually highly supportive for they thought the kid(s) of such a marriage would be better-looking. I think my friends’ reaction goes to show that some stereotypes still exist among young people living in a big city like Shanghai who can speak very good English. I was a little disappointed. Besides, sex is allegedly a big factor. Because I hear stories where Chinese men failed to satisfy their foreign wives and Chinese men often feel inadequate when it comes to penis size.
As one who has only dabbled in dating Chinese men, I can’t speak from as much experience at these other women. But I agree with many of their comments and sympathize with them. But as one who is looking for a more serious relationship with a Chinese man, I thank you for having forged the path for us and hopefully showed people on all sides what an interracial relationship can look like. And I hope that the younger women like Andi and I can stand up tall and smile at people even when they glare at us because we’re confident in ourselves as individuals and happy in our relationship. We should be proud that we’re choosing our partners for the right reasons and are not deterred by cultural stereotypes or other prejudices. Thank you for the post and the comments. I’m immediately subscribing to your blog.
Hi Aimee! Hi MF!
Jocelyn, Good luck and it’d very cool to meet you one day when you return to China!
I’m an American guy married to a Chinese girl in China so of course I can’t relate but I think you hit the nail on the head. Stereotypes, values, family preferences, all of it weighs in pretty heavily in China, dare I say more so than in the West. Western guys also have hurdles to jump in gaining the family’s blessing (though I think that Chinese society looks favorably and often encourages Chinese girls to get married with foreign guys so that part of the river is a bit easier to traverse; Western society however often labels guys like me as victims of yellow fever) but I can imagine that you bear the brunt of a lot of misunderstanding, from foreigners and Chinese alike. The good thing is that you got married for the right reasons. Screw the haters.
Dealing with the stares and the whispering.
When dating my German readhead girlfriend, the furtive and half-hidden stares and whispering were also the norm, especially when visiting some picturesque, but insular small European towns and villages or when in China/Asia. Personally, the best way I found to deal with them is to smile brightly and say a genuine great, big hello or Gutentag from myself or a ni hao from my girlfriend. That usually gets them out of their reverie and cut short their whisperings. They are then either forced to smile back if they are friendly or scowl and scurry away if not and you can have a good laugh amongst yourself, but either way it breaks the ice and the tension.
As for “obstacles” within the relationship itself, the key is simply to talk to each other calmly and sensibly and never go to bed angry. If he’s worth it, the ladies simply have to work slowly and patiently at eroding rather than violently break down the typical male reticent stoicism, irrespective of culture. And this is where Asian women may seem to have the cultural advantage of patience (though not always so from my personal experience) giving rise to the stereotype that Asian women make “better” wives (Ha! if only the suckers knew better before it’s too late for them).
To the guys, irrespective of cultures, it pays (lots, trust me on this) to let your guard down and show your vulnerabilities, emotionally or otherwise once in a while, for you see (sorry ladies) women dig the strong enough to be vulnerable guy thing. It has something to do with kittens and puppy dogs I think for all I know. Besides, what have you got to loose apart from a little funny awkwardness? It’s what exploring and learning about yourself and your partner, whether emotionally or physically, is all about.
Well that’s my playbook anyway, so have fun, live a little and best of luck to you all on your adventures.
Hi, I’m from South East Asia, Indonesia. Over here it seems there are not much problems like in China, I found many many foreign babes hooked up with our men, felt in love and marriage happily. Seems western women has tendency to loves more the brown skin of South East Asia, beach boys, and big eyes… more exotic than the white guys
They do have different perception between Asian Chinese and Asian South East Asia guys, eih?
Hi, I’m an ethnic Chinese born in Paris, France. In my youth, I could only imagine dating French ‘white’ girls, with the usual stereotypes : blond hair, blue eyes and thin body, even if I eventually ended marrying a Japanese girl.
From my (few) experiences, dating white girls, one very annoying thing is that we would always be watched by others as a curiosity. It was not permanent but it always happened.
I have a lot cousins, and on 10 boys, only one is married to a white french girl, even though some have dated white girls for some time before ending with a chinese girl.
Compare to the girls : on 11, only 3 married to an ethnic chinese, all others are married to white men. It confirms the rarity of chinese men with white women, even outside of china.
Love the topic. Since this topic cites Chinese men in general, I’ll put in my two cents as a Chinese American male. I recall a similar Time magazine article some 10 years ago on Asian men being the “new” trophy boyfriends. When I read that article, I thought that this was likely only in New York and Los Angeles because I sure wasn’t seeing it. This was before the major influx of Mainland Chinese to the West Coast in the later 90’s. The flight from downtown Chinatown LA to the outer burbs after the Rodney King incident to the larger enclaves of Rowland Hts, Industry Hills and Rosemead, Arcadia, Pasadena served to broaden contact between 1st and 2nd Chinese immigrants and locals. My cousin, who is Chinese, grew up in a very multicultural community with many dating experiences with non Chinese. He basically grew up color blind or rather non color selective. He eventually married a European girl, he met in Norway.
My experience was different. I am older by almost a generation than my cousin and did date outside my race but my acculturation was different than my cousin’s. I grew up in a small town and did not date at all in highschool because nobody found me attractive or rather I felt not attractive to the general female population of the school. Only after I moved away and went to a large city, did I experience non Asian relationships. A serious relationship with a Puerto Rican girl brought up all the issues that several of the previous posts highlighted. That ended badly. I think that we both saw what a big issue our cultures were even though they were both family oriented and patriarchal.
I ended up marrying a Taiwanese girl mainly due to our commonalities. I like Chinese culture, I am proud of its language and history. Its hard enough for Chinese couples in the States to pass Chinese culture to their offspring but I think it can be doubly hard for Chinese males with Caucasian females again due to the “inferiority complex” that subtly laces the relationship. I think that the Chinese males that are in mixed race relationships bespeaks the confidence that they have in themselves and of their partners. It definitely is tough going but as the saying goes- Love is blind.
Chinese men are Yucky!!!When in the US, when dating an Asian man I get called a Golden Himalayan (Gold Digger), and many other names that suggest that I am only with them for their cash. When living in Taiwan I had two long term Taiwanese boyfriends. One was a racist prick who had all these assumptions he had made of what it would be like to have a foreign girlfriend and made it clear to me the day I told him to get out of my house that we could never marry or have any future plans because he had to marry a Chinese woman because that was what was proper. The other was wonderful but tended to get tired of all the shit he heard about him dating a foreign woman. There were quite a few men who did not make it past a couple dates because they made it obvious (though I’m sure accidentally) that their interest in me was mostly interest in me as a race and not as a person.
Then there is the assumption that white women do not like Asian men, which makes it hard to date because many men just discount us as unobtainable. And of course the stupid (completely false) stereotype that Asian men have smaller penises makes many a foreign woman disinterested.
Wow, I am truly amazed by how so many of you have shared such deeply personal experiences. You’ve really added new dimensions to the topic, touching on perspectives I had not even considered.
Thank you so much for joining the conversation! (and BTW, feel free to continue if you’ve got more to say) 😉
I question the sexual experience of those “women” who think that a size of mans penis can determine if they give pleasure or not. A real woman knows that you can be pleased sexually in different ways. The relationships that I have had with men in America didn’t please me sexually at all. They don’t really like to be “told” how to please you. They lack passion as well. Now being with an asian man I learned a lot about the sexual side of me. I thought something was wrong with me for a very long time. (I know a lot of people don’t talk about sexual stuff but it needs to be said so this can stop.) I could never have an orgasm until I met an Asian man.
Reading through, RE the comments on the expat men’s reactions to women dating “locals”
OMG YES!!
I very quickly upon arrival in Taiwan quit hanging out with expats. They were gross to me with all their levels of bigotry and innate belief that they were better than the locals on so many levels.
But when in their presence I got a load of different reactions “But you’re pretty” being one of them.
Seriously? Because I’m “pretty” I should date expats?
They all had their local wives but could not fathom a foreign woman liking a more gentle, less retardedly macho local men. I would tell them that even in the US I preferred Asian men and I would get accused of exoticism, orientalism, or (more than twice) “liking the little dick”.
The irony in all this is that the more I was chastised for dating local men, the less likely I was to touch one of those expats with a 50ft pole.
One of the earlier comments touched on some of the social/hygiene issues of Western women dating Chinese men in a factual way. A few others did so in very uneducated and ineffective ways. The big thing any Western woman who wants to date a Chinese man has to understand is that your pool of suitable mates is probably much smaller than that for Western men who want to date Chinese men.
As much as people want to be “politically correct” and ignore reality, the constant public hocking, spitting, scratching, and digging are real … and they are a problem. The nasty disgusting stinky breath is real … and it is a problem. The smoking is real … and it is a problem, especially for the vast majority of American women. No magic wand can make reality go away. The truth is that those issues exist.
I noticed some comments above saying “Chinese men I know are not like that” … and maybe you are right … but as much as 90% of Chinese men are like that. That means the numbers a Western woman has to choose from in the social manners and acceptable hygiene departments, alone, are already small. When you add in the family and social pressures, it is almost not worth it to pursue Chinese men.
At least with Chinese men, or other Asian men, who were born or raised in Western countries, they share the same set of social and hygienic values as most Western women. That means the biggest barriers to a relationship will already be taken care of before you have ever even said hello to each other. Social standards will not change in China until someone makes an effort to educate people.
My advice to Western women who want to date Chinese men, or other Asian men, is to do so in your own country or other Western countries. If you insist on looking for one in China, you might have to experience a lot of disappointment until you get lucky, at least until someone is brave enough to push China to bring its social and hygienic habits into the same stratosphere as Western countries.
@ Sassiella
I’m afraid you demonstrate a very shallow and immature approach to relationships as well as the inability to venture beyond the superficials.
In any relationships, particularly when one begins to spend any significant amount of time with each other, there are bound to be things, including personal habits, that begin to grate. The key, should you like/love each other enough, is to talk it over and make personal changes and grow together. It’s as simple as that. So it’s not rocket science is it?
I sincerely hope you have the opportunity and the potential to grow up and mature into a better person that is capable of seeing beyond the superficial or initial reaction and intolerance that so often dazzle and confuses our life in this modern era.
So best of luck to you.
i feel surprise you guys so interested about this. May be it is just begining(foreign girl with chinese guy) ….this kind of marriage will be more popular in the following decades i guess…
Sorry I’m adding my comments so late here! I’m married to a Taiwanese guy who I met in university in New Zealand. When I met him I was of course aware that he was Asian but at the same time I wasn’t. It didn’t matter to me, what attracted me to him was his smile, his demeanour and his beautiful brown eyes. 6 and a half years later he’s back in Taiwan working and I’ve joined him. Sure we get a lot of stares but I get stared at anyway being white (I live outside of Taipei, the capital) and I guess I’m getting used to it.
As for family, his family lived in NZ so they weren’t surprised when I showed up. I was just welcomed in and treat like any other girl of any other ethnic origin would have been. I get along insanely well with his mother which makes me a very lucky daughter in law I think as I have heard some horror stories about mother in laws with traditional chinese thinking (but then, which culture doesn’t have horror mother in law stories?!)
There are cultural differences, but I think the reason our relationship works so well is that there is a lot of give and take on both sides. I take on some of his cultural customs, and he takes on some of mine. Like everyone else has said, openness and communication are key, as are a good sense of humour and a good dollop of tolerance for the staring public 😉
@Kath,
It’s never too late to join the conversation! Thanks for sharing your experience. It sounds like you have a perfect balance in your relationship. And to be together in Taiwan! Ah…don’t get me started, that is such a “treasured island” (å®å²›ï¼Œas they say in the mainland, or 寶島 in Taiwan)
BTW, I’m adding your blog to my links at the bottom for “Foreign Women + Chinese Men” blogs — hope your hubby doesn’t mind being in the category of Chinese! 😉
I’m a white American woman, 30 years old; I mention it b/c I can’t personally remember when Asian men would have been considered unacceptable by white women due to ridiculous stereotypes like small penis or nerdy, whether they’re ethnic-Asian Americans or Asians from Asia. I’m from the redneck south of all places, maybe it’s because we didn’t have many Asians; maybe I was blind to it. Anyway, anyone would be stupid to reject people of any race out of hand. (Of course, just refer to Long Duk Dong from 16 Candles to see something shocking from just a little before my time.)
That prof in the article gave a movie example, of like, Jackie Chan doesn’t get the girl. Feh, the point of a kung fu flick is to kick butt, not provide sentimental hogwash. There’s plenty of Han matinee idols, just not in caucasian markets yet. But anyway who cares? It’s stupid movies. Jackie Chan and Chow Yun Fat characters just don’t put their business in the street, that’s all, like gentlemen; I have no doubt that their characters do have business going on.
I’m a Brazilian male and I date a French girl. Apparently, this discussion doesn’t have much to do with me but I liked the post and comments very much, so I’d like to address 3 points:
1. Stereotypes and Generalisations: I am an ok dancer. Never danced much, but have some talent and pick up moves fast. I don’t like football (real football, not that weird sport Americans play with their hands). Back home I am a mediocre player at best, but out here (I live in China) I fare pretty well against Europeans. I’ve met some French people who are truly insufferable, but not all French people are like that, I am dating one of them. I’ve met Germans who are so methodical and organized I wanted to punch them. I’ve met some who were very inflexible and a little socially inept. But I met Germans who were chaos impersonated and the life of the party.
My point is that generalizations and stereotypes come from somewhere. If you meet enough people within a group (say, people from the same country), you start to have an idea of similar traits (good and bad) that a lot of these people have. If enough people from your country meet enough people from the other country, these generalizations start forming stereotypes.
I’ve been in China for over 3 years and have observed a few things. And I’ve heard stories from friends who dated Asian men (girls and gay guys), they’ve told me things. Many of the stories confirm the stereotypes (including the size one) and others deny them (including the size one). I’ve myself seen things that confirm and deny stereotypes about the Chinese (but not the size one :P). In the end, stereotypes might give you an idea of traits that people from a certain place might have, but they cannot define an individual. Some of the stereotypes about the Chinese even contradict themselves! Think of the martial artist versus the nerdy guy.
2. Ok, stereotypes and generalizations aren’t always wrong, but they aren’t always right either. When two people in this world find each other and have a connection. All the life experience, culture, prejudices etc. that you had built you until that point. But what happens later on is about the individual themselves and how they deal with them. Stereotypes don’t play much of a role here. I’ve seen all types of stories between Asian guys and white girls or Asian girls and whatever else. To be fair, most Asian guys dating foreign girls I’ve seen were raised overseas. And most white girls dating mainlanders I’ve seen spoke fluent Chinese (except one).
3. What I think plays a much bigger role is the simple fact that the Chinese society is VERY CLOSED. Yes, yes, I heard that Japan and Korea are worse (and I believe it) but I haven’t lived in those countries and everything I know is second or third hand. My point is that if I lived in Germany or France (countries I’ve lived in and know about), bet that at least 50% of my friends would be German and we would hang out on a German or French crowd. Sure, you need to learn the language and it takes time. But in China, I know people who have been here for years and years, speak fluent Chinese and barely have any Chinese friends. I even know FBC’s (Foreign Born Chinese) who speak the language since they were born, have been here for some 12-13 years and still hang out mostly with foreigners.
The main point here is that because mingling into the Chinese social network is already so difficult, I believes it reduces even more one’s chances of meeting that cool Chinese person who might share that connection with you. I remember going to a music festival here in Beijing once and seeing hundreds of cool Chinese people. I said to a friend: “Where were these people all this time?“. Probably, it’s just related to the fact that foreigners and Chinese hang out in different places and don’t really mix so much. Something similar probably happens in Chinese communities overseas.
Shirong, there is NOTHING that will ever make me ACCEPT a man who has disgusting nasty stinking breath, spits anywhere except a toilet/sink/gutter/bushes, makes that loud filthy hocking sound, publicly picks his nose, publicly digs up his butt, or smokes cigarettes. I do not have to SETTLE for somebody low class, which is what you are advocating. Why should I have to teach someone how to act? These are things he should learn as a child and no one should have to be the mother of a grown man. If an adult is doing things like these, he will never change because it is too late as those behaviors are ingrained deep inside him.
There is nothing shallow, immature, or superficial about expecting a grown adult to have common decency. I went out with a Chinese guy once who spit on the floor at KFC. I recoiled in disgust and he acted like nothing was wrong. I calmly explained that we were in a restaurant where people are eating and doing that was totally unacceptable. He said okay and then spit on the floor again less than three minutes later. I got up and walked out immediately. People like him can’t be changed now. These are the things that civilized people learn as children. It is not too much to ask for someone to have decent public manners.
I hope you are not going to get all over-sensitive now and start lashing out at foreign countries, or foreign cultural standards, or something like that. The things I mention are a problem. A very big problem. I hope the foreign women looking for Chinese men can find the Chinese men who do not do those behaviors. But it will not be easy. I know no one wants to talk about it. They would rather PRETEND that everyone has the same hygienic and behavioral standards and love can conquer everything. HOGWASH. Which is not to be confused with MOUTHWASH. The only answer is a lot more education about manners and hygiene.
Sassiella does have a point, which has something to do with what I wrote about the Stereotype/Generalisation thing.
True, not all Chinese guys spit, hock and do other disgusting things. But a lot of them do, here in China. And a lot of women I know wouldn’t go out with men who display such behaviour, no matter where he is from.
Shirong’s answer is generic and does not touch this particular issue. Was it intentional?
If she really did go out on a date with a Chinese guy who did that, it indicates she is not contaminated by bad stereotypes and probably people were unfair to her.
I did notice an excess of political correctness here. I don’t think the spitting is the main issue on a generic discussion. But it is HUGE on a personal level.
The hocking IS gross. To say it’s not is a lie. However, the Chinese man I’m dating now has excellent hygiene, he smells good, doesn’t spit, and has great breath.
Part of it, I think is a generational gap. When I see the spitting etc. it’s usually older men. I rarely see the younger men doing it. So I’m going to file hygiene under every other stereotype out there, often based in truth, but too generalized to be applied to ALL Chinese men.
@ Sassiella
*Sigh* please re-read my comments. I’ve never advocated that you MUST settle or accept anything that you do not want to. As far as I’m aware, nobody is pointing a gun at your head to force you to do anything and your personal desire, preference and prejudice are entirely your own and of your own making. Kindly do not attribute words to myself that are extrapolation and projection of your own personal sensitivity and level of maturity, irrespective of your age.
Having lived in a number of countries and dated people of most colours and creed, what I’ve suggested is merely another perspective or approach if you will. It is why I’ve deliberately kept my comment general as the details are up to individuals to work out to suit themselves. My experience is that personal attraction and curiosity does the darndest things to people, often resulting in the unlikeliest of partnerships and friendships.
I’ve dated an Irish American New Yorker who is extremely polished and well presented, yet was a total slob at home and a party animal in that she likes her drinks. I’ve also dated an ambitious Indian girl from a small town in the countryside whom I was initially indifferent to, but proved lovely and caring nonetheless. Yet in the end I simply couldn’t stand the smell of spices permeating my pores, my apartment and my wardrobe all the time.
Then there was a girl from the American Mid-West who I couldn’t stand initially and who saw it as her very own personal mission to convert me while we were dating. She has a primness to her that I initially found endearing though occasionally insufferable, but which later mellowed as we dated since she and I came to appreciate our differing perspectives. By contrast my ex-German girlfriend proved most tediously argumentative and overly politically, which while initially intellectual stimulating, became wearily frustrating especially when all I wanted was a simple cuddle after a long day. And so on it goes.
Was everything I’ve said and felt about my experience politically correct or in any way not shallow? Of course not, for it reflected the formation process of my own preferences, yet conversely also the slow erosion of my prejudices as I learned to see people beyond the superficial and appreciate them for what they are and their potential.
I’ve never regretted any of them nor fortunately ever looked back with anger or disgust. In all cases I was glad that I overcame my initial dislike and got to know every complex one of them better for what they are. Any personal habit that I disliked, I’ve always found it far more effective to either tease/surprised them out of it and/or convinced them that it’s in their own interest to change. It’s also a very tall order to expect anybody to change a life time of habit overnight, nevermind in half an hour. So the question is what prompted you to go out on a date with him in the first place?
Ultimately, I’ve learned that “civilized” is more often than not, highly subjective. To me, it’s always been the proccess of discovery, change and growth that’s more rewarding above anything else, including the first, second or third impression. Such that even when it doesn’t work out, both parties took something away with them from the relationship.
By all means, if there are certain absolute minimum requirements that you absolutely will not forego then *shrug* each to their own I guess, so long as you’re also aware of the “opportunity cost” of your decisions. It the end it may all simply boil down to the fact I’m a guy and you’re *ahem* a lady with, shall we say differing “needs” in any given relationshp.
Best of luck and may you find your heart’s desire, provided you know exactly what it is of course.
😉
To clarify something, I have not said that ALL Chinese men publicly spit, hock, nose pick, butt dig, have stinky breath, smoke, shoot snot rockets, or cough without covering their mouths. I made it a point to say that not ALL do those things. But the sad truth is that MANY do those things, including a lot who are in their 20s and 30s. I guess they pick it up from older men because they do not know better.
For the record, I have even hung out with Western educated Chinese guys who did not do those things when they were in other countries, but reverted back to such behavior when they returned to China. Their excuse was that everyone else in China does it so they can’t stop themselves. Give me a break! It is called will power. They are too lazy to control themselves or teach to others anything proper.
This is not an attack on China either. People know about the main stereotype of the French. Many folks in places like India are known for not being attentive to body odor. I am sure there are other areas in the world with stinky breath and other kinds of problems. But this blog is specifically about things that can keep Western women and Chinese men apart so I am addressing one of the biggest issues.
Wanting all people in every country to have a basic standard of cleanliness and manners is not superficial. It is something that should be normally expected. Please do not hide behind cultural differences because saying that is an excuse for not acting. All people with some education should teach those who do not know. If someone spits by your feet, speak up. If someone coughs in your face, speak up.
SARS was a perfect opportunity for a mass education campaign to stamp out spitting, hocking, and uncovered coughing. A-H1-N1 is about to present another perfect opportunity. Will China step up and seize the initiative while the epidemic rages in full force? Or will folks lazily hide behind cultural differences and miss another chance to make a positive change in people’s lives? Leave the excuses behind!
@Sassiella
I agree that, unfortunately, there are a lot of Chinese men with undesirable habits — spitting, smoking, hocking, etc. It certainly is a barrier to relationships. But I think it’s important to keep in mind what MF said above:
The many bad apples out there will often blind us to those one-in-a-million guys who really do exist in China.
I have met some extraordinary men in China — men who were more gentlemanly, gentle and caring than anyone I ever dated in the US (and, I might add, men who do not smoke, spit, hock, have bad breath, or even drink). If I had decided that all men in China were disgusting, I would never have given myself the opportunity to know them, which would have been an incredible loss.
As for the change you mention — yes, it is important to demand change, and I hope China changes everyday. Yet keep in mind that China is a very large country with shockingly large gaps between the wealthy and poor. While it’s realistic that a Chinese guy with a comfortable apartment and BMW living in Shanghai could change his ways, what about the migrant worker in Shanghai working on a construction site and living in a crowded, barebones dormitory just to provide for their impoverished family in Southern Henan Province?
And on the other hand, being wealthy in China can often be an obstacle to change. In today’s “People’s Republic of Capitalism” (to borrow the phrase from Koppel’s series), it often doesn’t matter how you behave, as long as you have money and power. Kind of an “ends justify the means” mentality. In some cases, these people even have no shame at all (I have seen government officials and elites, all men, who once talked blatantly about their mistresses and lewd sexual behavior right in front of me, at the dinner table). If these people are the models in society (which they are for many, who aspire to become wealthy), then it’s easy to see how such habits tenaciously hang on in China.
Affecting the change you’re describing — stamping out spitting, hocking and uncovered coughing — is going to take a lot more than just people running around policing everyone. People in China need to reclaim a sense of shame regarding their behavior in public, on many levels. I’m no expert in this field, but I do know it doesn’t help that China lags behind in psychological expertise (the very thing that could help to improve socializing people, so they behave better in public, and towards strangers).
Hi Jocelyn, I was so happy to see that you wrote about this topic, because there’s not much written about it! I’m a foreign female living in China, in a city where there are literally a baker’s dozen of foreigners. I’ve been here almost a year and found that most of the time, Chinese men seem at once attracted but intimidated (it also doesn’t help that I’m 5’11″/180cm). Many want to be near me to up their ‘face,’ but there are also some who consider themselves ‘liberal’ and want to sleep with me, because all foreign women are so ‘liberal’ they just have sex with any man any time!
But mostly, I’m an object of distant fascination, not unlike a zoo animal. Everyone tells me to get a Chinese boyfriend, but in reality, it seems that very few are open to that idea. Which is a shame, because I certainly am.
[Also, it’s hard to find foreign men too, because so many of them are interested in having a Chinese girlfriend(s)]
Anyway, I was happy to stumble on your blog and even happier that you wrote about this topic. Thanks!
@ellis,
Thanks for stopping by and posting a comment! I can relate to the “zoo animal” feeling in China…I’ve felt it many times myself. Sorry to hear that the Chinese men in your area aren’t so open to dating a foreign woman. But if you’re open to it, it can happen — sometimes when you least expect it. It happened to me in a city (Zhengzhou) where there was also, at the time, just, as you say, “a baker’s dozen” of foreigners.
can anyone tell me what is the strongpoint of chinesemen
earth, ahem (let me clear my throat!)
I can’t tell you the strong points of all chinese men, but I can mention a few points about at least one I know well, these being things that I think are a contrast with many of his western counterparts:
*lacks the typical western he-man machoism
*doesn’t regularly watch any sports on t.v.
*supremely patient
*sensitive and often picks-up on what I might be thinking or feeling, responding considerately
*has great taste in food 🙂
*appreciates feminist ideals
There are probably lots of chinese men that don’t have these qualities. But the one I’m thinking of certainly does.
i just want to kown what is our impression in you guys’ mind…he he
Susan,
The first and second comment are not correct at all. but others……….reasonable . Good luck to you!
Earth,
Okay, but the first two are definately true for the one *I* married. I forgot to mention the sense of humor (different from western guy’s).
May i just add one more point to what Susan had mentioned about Chinese men, a lot of us are good chef at home too:) and we are happy to show off our cooking skill in front of our wives. Food is a such important part of chinese culture that cooking is not just the responsibility of women.
@”POOKIE”
My goodness, what planet do you live to make such assumptions about chinese men as if you are “the expert”. I bet most of the chinese men feel the same about you. Grow up, you have a long way to go.
It’s very interesting to read what people have to say on this topic. I’m a Chinese man, born and grew up in Taiwan till I was 22, then moved to America with my family. A little about my appearance, I’m 6’1″ (since I was 18), currently weight 185 lbs at age of 40, most people would tell you I’m a good looking guy and a body builder type, especial when I once weighted at 210 lbs, with body fat around 12%.
When I was 22, moving to America was not an easy quest for me, I was considered skinny at 175 lbs. I could not get most American girls to go on a date with me. When I became 30, I just wanted to prove a point, that a Chinese man can be tall and strong like any western man and still have the same typical qualities in Chinese men, such as supremely patient, doesn’t watch sports regularly, etc. I worked out 5 days a week for 2-3 years when I had a total “make-over” on my body. Just picture how Will Smith looked in “Fresh Prince of Bell-Air” as a skinny boy and “Ali” as a 200 pound plus boxer.
My point is, people will always have their first impression from your outer appearance, and sometimes, you might just need to let them have it before they even get a chance to know the real you.
I’ve had relationships with white, black and Asian women. I can say from my personal experience, even after my transformation on my image (the macho look), many white women still keep their distance from me. This is mostly because of the race issue. For some reason, more white men can easily accept Asian women than a white women can accept Asian men.
I’m not here to complain because I do have many good friends and past girlfriends who can look beyond the race issue. Living abroad as a non-white minority, I’ve learned to adapt and accept the reality. I guess I wanted to prove and I did, that the reason most western women who don’t date Asian guy and say because they’re not macho enough all have other thoughts in mind but afraid to admit it. The truth is, it’s a different time, most people do not want to be caught being a racist even when they are. I can accept racism but I refuse to believe Chinese men are less than western men in any way.
Another thing, most western women have the imagine of Chinese men being “sissy”, it’s just as bad as many Chinese men think western women would sleep with strangers on a first date. It’s not true.
@StevenChao I’m sorry for your experiences with racists and such, but for me looks and such don’t matter at all. Not even handsome vs. ugly, tall vs. short, etc. much less white vs. Chinese. My problem now as an white American woman in China is the Chinese men don’t seem to want to date ME, not the other way around! If I could get a Chinese guy to make a move I would be so happy. Part of it is they seem intimidated. I had one guy tell me that he wasn’t rich enough to date a foreigner, which left me totally confused.
As to other expats (guys!) being dicks about it, TOTALLY TRUE. The second night I was in China, one guy asked me if I would date a Chinese guy and when I said yes, he accused me of having a fetish for small penises. I mean, WOW.
I would actually like to get some feedback about something that hasn’t been mentioned yet. What about the rampant adultery? One of my male Chinese friends told me frankly that he plans to get married to a Chinese girl, have a child, then go “outside” for love. Not only is adultery fairly common, it seems almost socially accepted and mandated. Of course adultery is also common in Western countries, but it’s not expected like it is China. Has this been a problem for any of the couples? Just wondering.
Re: Steven’s comments, I think his point that most Americans don’t want to say if they are racist, even if they are is totally correct. That’s not an easy thing to admit, or even be aware of. Perhaps it also happens that plenty of racism in China exists toward foreigners living in the country. I also agree with what Steven said abuot the “sissy” stereotype being incorrect. I don’t understand it, but I’ve noticed myself that many Chinese men carry themselves in a way that can appear effeminate to others. It’s something about the way they move their bodies, and express themselves in general that I cannot put my finger on. What is it? Can anyone explain it (maybe they have already?)
I don’t think racism is the matter, I mean, I don’t think the western women are more racist than men or conversely that Chinese men are more racist than Chinese women…
In western countries, there is a bias against Asian men.
Maybe, is it due to the lack Asian men presence in the media ? It is not a rejection as in racism (I _never_ felt any racist animosity from women in France), but a lack of appealing that might explain the discussed rarity in western countries. Actually, in my youth, I happened to be accosted by French girls, so much for the lack of appealing 😉
In China, I highly suspect the main reason is the a priori that western women are ‘rich’. Then Chinese guys may not want to lose face if they can’t afford restaurant, travels etc…
susan : maybe many Asians happen to be nerds or geeks, when they are not Kungfu experts 😉
Re Andrea, the problem of rampant adultery is not true even though the things appeard . At least the mainstream culture can not accept it.
It’s so interesting to hear what western women think about dating/marrying Chinese men in China. Yes, I guess you could call many men in China being racist (even some Chinese in overseas countries), but it doesn’t come from racial related “supremacy” background, it’s almost the exact opposite. Of course, there’re also “myth” and misunderstanding between different cultures.
As far as I know, most Chinese (men and women) are very friendly to foreigners, they don’t ask foreigners to sit in the back rows on buses:-). Regardless what you hear in the media about China’s growth, many people are curious about foreigners and a lot of them are intimidated for good reasons. If you’re familiar with recent Chinese history from the late 1800’s till WWII, China lost almost every war fought to western countries, even Japan (also an Asian country). These historical wounds still haunt many Chinese mentally.
On top of that, most Chinese people are modest by nature because Confucius’s teaching has a great influence in our culture, the doctrine of the “Golden Mean” is very different than western culture’s “I’m the best, I can do anything”.
So I can see why some western women do not understand why Chinese men won’t ask them out on a date, the the reason is simply because they’re being overly modest. What Stan said is true, I believe most Chinese men have hard time to let women pick up their tab on a date. If he thinks he cannot afford to pay dinner for two, he probably won’t ask you out for dinner date.
I don’t think married men having a mistress is accepted in modern China, just as western countries. What I can say is that, cheating men will always tell you it’s ok to cheat. Just like people smoking pot will always say it’s ok to smoke weeds:-)
I agree with Steven, usually chinese men are more reserved than the western men which i don’t think is a bad thing. Casual dating with foreign girls is just not common in China, on top of that, i think basic communication can be another issue, how many foreign girls can speak fluent chinese and how many chinese men can speak fluent english in china? not even mention the art of winning the heart of opposite sex. This issue alone can eliminate almost majority of the potiential dates. I also think that bias against asian men do still exist which makes the matter even more complicated, because it becomes more than just about dating, it becomes a issue of race and chinese certainly do not take it lightly.
It’s so cool to see the conversation continuing — I love reading these comments, and love hearing from some fantastic Chinese guys and foreign women. 😉
On the mistress issue, I have to agree with Steven Chao. While I have come across some circles of men in China where mistresses are in the picture — these are often the powerful bosses, or officials, or men in high positions, usually 40, 50 years or older. Not your typical guy, and certainly not the kind of guy most of us would end up dating or marrying anyway. Here’s a 2000 article from the BBC which mentions adultery being a problem with Chinese men in positions of power.
Maybe it feels like there is more adultery in China because we see blatant reminders of it — the karaoke bars with “xiaojie“, the “massage parlors” and 休闲洗头 (the “hair dressers” that are really “undressing”) on all of the streets. We may not see these same things in our home countries, but it doesn’t mean there are fewer affairs.
Yes, this discussion is interesting. But I still think that the main obstacle here is how closed the Chinese society is. Because in the end it ends up playing a role in the language barrier as well. One of the reasons so many foreigners don’t learn Chinese is because they don’t have that much contact with it.
And, by not engaging very much with a lot of Chinese people, the mixing just becomes a bit more complicated.
@Zictor,
I agree Chinese society is closed. But if this were the main reason why there are so few Chinese men dating or marrying foreign women, you would see the same pattern with Chinese women dating or marrying foreign men. Not so.
However, if your comment is simply referring to the experience in China, in general — in other words, that it is difficult for foreigners to make friends with Chinese, and feel connected to the country — then that’s something else.
I’m sure a lot of foreigners do feel alienated when they first come to China. Still, it is possible to overcome the barriers — and doing so largely depends on how you approach your experience in the country, and the kinds of experiences you have. When I first came to China, I knew almost no Chinese — just a few survival phrases, and basic numbers. That was it. But I was curious about China, and interested to learn. I didn’t expect China to be exactly like what I’d known at home…I wanted to know China for what it was. In the process, I made some amazing Chinese friends, who spoke English and became my own teachers — teaching me about the culture around me.
If you live in China as a foreigner, you always have the opportunity to have contact with the culture. Even if you live in one of those foreigner enclaves (with names like “Santa Fe” or “California Shores”), you can find ways to involve yourself in the culture. If you have Chinese coworkers or you teach a language or take classes at a university with Chinese students, there are always possibilities to talk and learn, even if you’re just learning about China through your native language. If you work or live in an all-foreigner environment, then it’s up to you to find ways to connect with the culture on the weekends or evenings. It could be anything, including studying Chinese with a tutor, going to an English corner (where you can meet Chinese wanting to practice their English), learning Tai Chi from some seniors in a nearby park, or even visiting a night market and trying some new exotic snacks you’ve never had.
However, if you’re a foreigner in China who never steps out of their comfort zone, who stays at the expat bars and hangouts and events…it’s going to be tough to get to know China.
@Jocelyn,
Of course I meant my experience in China. I found that people o Asias descent born outside of Asia don’t have the same issues. I saw these guys dating white, black and Asian girls so I’m not counting them in this.
My basic premise is that if a person doesn’t have a lot of Chinese friends, they won’t get to meet a lot of cool Chinese people. You seem to put the blame on foreigners who stay in their comfort zones. I, on the other hand, have met people who have lived in China for almost 15 years, speak fluent Chinese adn even LOOK Chinese. But these people still hang out with foreigners much more than with Chinese.
On the other hand, at least 80% of the foreigners I saw who have lived in Brazil seem to have become a little Brazilian themselves. Actually, we accept them as one of our own. So yes, I do put some of the blame on the Chinese society. Because if there are foreigner comfort zones, it means that they aren’t totally comfortable out there.
Perhaps I am wrong, perhaps Brazil is just more open than other places and I find it shocking that other people aren’t as welcoming. But I am not blind to our flaws and I did have a very good welcome when I lived in Germany. And other Brazilians I met who lived in France and Germany didn’t seem to have so much trouble integrating.
@Zictor,
I apologize if I sounded as though I was putting so much blame on foreigners. I can understand where you are coming from, given your experience in Brazil, and observing foreigners integrating quite flawlessly into the culture. You are right that it is not easy in China for foreigners. I too have had moments of alienation in China. And perhaps I am an anomaly — having family ties to the country brings me so much closer to it.
“But I still think that the main obstacle here is how closed the Chinese society is.”
Yes and no. If you put an effort into it I believe the Chinese society is pretty open. But I kind of have a good starting point: a Chinese wife. I live in a totally Chinese area in Beijing, no other westerners is living here. I have been very welcomed here.
@Michael & Jocelyn
“Yes and no” Sounds about right, but look at your starting point. And I know nothing about you, But I have a few friends who speak fluent Chinese and have Chinese girlfriends/wives. Yet, the great majority of their friends seems to be foreign.
To be fair, the infamous language barrier makes it difficult to mix your foreign friends who don’t speak Chinese with your Chinese friends who don’t speak the language of the group (mostly English, but could be any other language as well).
Also, because women are generally better with languages than men, and Chinese girls are sort of “old school” in the sense that they might not require so much dialogue to bond with a foreign man. It makes it much easier for a foreign guy to chat up a Chinese girl in a random social setting (e.g. a bar).
On the other hand, some Westerns girl would need a real connection to a guy to fall for him. That requires a lot of interaction. It is amazing that in all Western female Chinese male pairings I have seen, one of them could speak the other’s language fluently (overwhelming majority for the western girl who spoke Chinese).
Point being, it just decreases the chances a western girl has of meeting those amazing Chinese guys out there. They no doubt exist, but they either don’t speak English, don’t feel confident to chat up a foreign girl, etc. etc.
This is a complex issue, and all factor raised play a role in each individual case. Foreigners aren’t innocent either. As it has been pointed out in other comments, some really have a problem with feeling superior to the Chinese.
I think one of the reasons that western women are often thought to be rich, even when they are actually not, is because they are typically a lot more exposed to the consumerism that is dominant in western culture. By that I mean they tend to spend their money more generously and liberally than their Chinese counterparts. I do not mean to say that this is just a symptom of the “white girls.” A lot of Chinese Americans exhibit the same kind of behavior as well, but maybe to a lesser degree. Fresh-off-the-boat Chinese (FOBs, e.g. myself) are usual frugal and stingy. And they expect their girlfriends (maybe not girlfriends, but certainly their wives) to be economically prudent, too. I know for a fact that I would not be able to independently afford a marriage with any of a number of sorority girls that I know on this campus, even if I could secure the highest paying job available for a normal college graduate. It’s just financially unfeasible, given their spending habits. Of course I don’t mean to stereotype people. I’m suer there are American women who are very responsible financially, and not corrupted by the consumerist culture.
Another problem that I have encountered is religion. Like many of my fellow Chinese, I’m an atheist. But I believe in atheism not by social convention or family tradition, but by years of reading and contemplating philosophy (any suggestion of coersion or brainwashing by the “communist dictatorship” is out of the question). When I came to the states, I landed in a historically white fraternity in a state right in the Bible belt. So ever since then, I’ve been consciously fighting off all forms of invitation of conversion from all denominations: Methodist, Baptist, Catholicism, Presbyterianism, Mennonite, etc. Even a Jewish professor tried pretty hard at one time to sell me his theology, and I thought Jews always kept their religion private from non-jews. A lot of protestant Christian groups on campus deliberately and actively target FOB Chinese students, which can be quite disturbing and annoying. So I’m pretty much fed up with all this unsolicited contagious religiosity, and I don’t hide my atheist belief. But a lot of American girls here are quite religious, especially a lot of the catholics, and those that could be called “sothern belles”. On the one hand, I don’t want to convert to anything, or to lie about my fundamental beliefs. On the other hand, for a lot of people here, atheism is rather controversial, to say the least. So it just never worked out seriously with any girl of religious convictions. And those ladies who are sufficiently secularist are usually too smart to involve themselves with fraternity boys.
@Roadblock
You say something about Western consumerism. I have to say that many a Westerners has been shocked about the materialism of China. About religion, that depends on the place. You have to understand the culture of the place you are in.
hi Jocelyn, I’m a Western woman married to a Chinese man too. I’ve often wondered why so few Chinese men are in relationships with foreign women (and they really do need to reverse that trend given that there are 1.06 Chinese men for every Chinese woman nowadays.) It’s a mystery to me because I think Chinese guys make excellent partners – very family-oriented, sincere, kind, honest. Of course I’m describing my own husband but I don’t think he’s unusual in China. I think one big reason you see so few Chinese men with foreign women is what that taxi driver alluded to. At least that fear is what stops a lot of Chinese guys from trying a relationship with a foreign woman.
Anyway I’m glad I found your blog! I’ve subscribed to your RSS feed. Please keep up the great posts!
@Melanie,
Great to hear from another Western woman who has discovered the joys of marriage to a Chinese man! When you find the right guy, they really can make exceptional partners, for all of the qualities you described (all fitting my husband as well). Thanks for sharing your take on why we’re so rare.
I’ve also added your blog to my Foreign Women + Chinese Men blogroll.
FYI to everyone…came across this article from 2005 while I was doing research on Lexis Nexis. It said 27 percent of mixed marriages comprised of Chinese men and foreign women — up from a few years before that.
Thanks for linking my blog! Yes, I am the one and the same Jessica who you corresponded with way back in … I guess it was 2003? My husband is not my then-boyfriend, but a guy I met in quite a few years later. We’ve been married for almost 3 years now and our son is 23 months.
I don’t get to blog very much because wordpress is blocked in China. I use workaround methods, but it just adds an extra level of hassle. However, I do hope you stop by my blog once in awhile and keep in touch. I’ll add you to my blogroll if you don’t mind!
Hi! It is difficult to socialise between races . Expats and locals stick to their own enclaves. If they do meet , love can happen. Racism comes only when family and friends frown on the relationship. I’m Chinese and after 30 years , I’m still thinking about the Punjabi girl who sent away to India to marry to take her mind off me.
I am a Chinese guy who currently living in America. I am studying Enginnering at UCLA, and here is my story.
I can to the US when I was 16 years old, my mother married a fat, and extreamly unattrictive bold head White guy, so we could come o the US. At first I did not mind cause I was young only 16 years YOUNG. At that time I used to only like Chinese girls cause I grow up there and watch all the Chinese movies and film where Chinese girls are beautiful. I never even thought of liking White girls by then, cause I never even seen one. lol
After living in the US for 7 years that ALL CHANGED. I watch hollywood movie and start to accept White beauty standard. MY first year I already accept the “fact” that “White guys are better than us, it is all good for White guys to get all the hot Asian chick they want but not the other way around”. But then after that I start to get a bit lonely cause Asian girls in America never even liked me, some Asian girls told me that I am good looking which I also aggree, but they only wants to be friend. While most other Asian girls are SO mean. I also start to get all the Racisim bullsh!t from White guys that Asian guys have small penis, and several WHite guys intensionally said that infront of me, however at that time they said it in a joke maner and due to my lack of English skills I did not understand at the moment however, I figured out later. That really pissed me off.
Two years later, my mom divorced her fat husband(lol). She start to dating again. I thought great, mom should date a Chinese guy who will have our values and traditions. But she did not, she dated another fat white guy cause she cannot find a good looking white guy. I asked her why? She did not say, but I was smart enough to find out that she hates Asian guys and was totally white washed by American media that Asian guys suck! So I also changed. Ever since then I start to like non-Asian girls particullary White girls. But right now, I have to stay foucs on school. Once I get my Master degree in Mechnical Engineering I will start dating.
My comment on American white girls are: 1. Most White girls in US do not like Asian gusy. Because a lot of white girls are SICK of seeing so many White guys with Asian girls and Asian guys in US dont dig white girls as much, White girls can be quite rude to us Asian males. However, the reason why Asian guys dont dig White girls is due to the lack of media promotion. You see so many movies promoting WM/AF realationships but NEVER see one does the opposite, it is quite clear that American media whihc also influrence Europe is being controlled by White men. Off course they do not want to see Asian guys getting their women cause there are already competition from Black and Hispanic guys. 2. A lot of White girls are into the Asian man sterotypes. That many of them are turn off by us without even know us. Please dont believe in those crap, I am Asian guy and I dont have those nasty sh!t they want you to believe. But it still hurts to hear all those stuffs.
One last thing. I think I am kinda mentally ill right now. I am a total SELLOUT, I can NEVER go back to Asian girls anymore.
Slipknot, thanks for sharing your experience. I was really blown away by your story, and am so sorry to hear that you were mentally scarred on some level. I completely agree that the media seems less interested in promoting Asian male/non-Asian female relationships — I’m sure, if you asked them, they’ll probably just respond with something like “movies like that don’t sell”. But deep down, it really is a double standard.
In fact, a few weeks ago I saw a commercial here in the US — I think it was for chewing gum — and it showed two Asian guys living in Scotland with Scottish accents. The whole idea behind it was “how wrong” the situation was, but it felt a bit racist and unfair. I mean, I know there are Asians living in Scotland, with Scottish accents (in fact, the girl who played Cho Chang in Harry Potter is originally from Scotland, and has a Scottish accent). But why is it all of a sudden “so funny” or “so weird” when it happens to be someone Asian.
To me, it’s unconscionable that an ad agency can still get away with this, when a similar move using blacks or hispanics would create negative backlash. Just another sign of how the media doesn’t give Asian guys a fair shake.
´porque demonios eruptan en la mesa?
I’m a 25 year old Chinese American writing here.
Media is not to blame for not letting Asian guys get with white girls, but movies do set the tone. How annoying is it that Jet Li can kick so much ass in “Romeo Must Die” and “Kiss of the Dragon,” but not get anywhere romantic with Aaliyah or Bridget Fonda? Boooooo! I agree with Jocelyn that it’s a double standard that needs to be shattered, like how black/white skinned relationships are being broken in cinema today. We need more ambitious directors, producers and actors to put in some hotter scenes or at the very least a romance. And we need more hunky Asian heroes to help lead the way. Let’s hope RAIN will get some action in “Ninja Assassin.”
But the bigger question is: What is a “white woman?” Is she Polish? Russian? Estonian? French? What about all the other groups in America? Mexicans? Puerto Ricans? Blacks? Ghanians? South Africans?
Sorry Asian guys, but you can’t blame any woman (of whatever skin color or nationality) for not liking you. I’ve known and loved women from different ethnicities and nationalities and they’ve loved me. There’s no excuses here. I think most Asian guys are just too timid, nice and kind to get what they want. That’s how I used to be; admiring from afar, holding doors open, being a good friend…but not enough balls to ask them out to a lovely evening and taking a risk.
You can sit and wait around til you’re 32 for a woman to magically fall in your lap, or you can grow a pair and ask a beautiful woman out. You will definitely get rejected a few times. So what? So does everyone else. You’re not special. You just might find the girl of your dreams, have 8 kids, then get a prime-time tv reality show.
So from one Asian guy to all you other Asian guys who are or are thinking about whining: don’t blame anyone or anything else if you’re not in a relationship with a girl, white or not.
It’s your life. Do what you want with it.
Very interesting. I’m a white British woman and I dated a Hong Kong Chinese guy at University (he was a post grad, I was an undergrad). I met him through some British (Hong Kong) Chinese friends of mine.
The relationship didn’t work out partly due to cultural differences (he was not British born but an overseas student from Hong Kong), but mostly because at 18 I was a bit too young for a serious relationship and he was a lot older than me (29). Obviously, there was no language problem as he was doing an MBA in the UK, so spoke excellent English.
None of my friends (Chinese or otherwise) had any problem with my boyfriend, nor did my family. What I did notice however is that when we were out, we got almost dirty looks from (non British) Chinese people. My then boyfriend used to say “it’s because they can’t believe I have such a pretty girlfriend”, but he was just trying to be kind, I’m absolutely certain they were thinking “can’t that guy find himself a nice Chinese girlfriend?”. These kind of looks only ever came from Chinese people.
I’m still in contact with my Chinese ex-boyfriend; he went back to Hong Kong, got married and now has two lovely kids. We swap e-mails a few times a year.
I would also point out that this phenomenon exists in Japan as well. I studied Japanese at university and have lived in Japan. While a student in Japan, I noticed many romances between Japanese girls and foreign men, but very few the other way round. This wasn’t a money or language problem as my fellow female foreign students and I all spoke Japanese and as students had far less money than any working Japanese guy (even than most Japanese students as this was the time of the high yen, when foreigners were poor). I remember that Japanese men in bars often bought my (foreign) friends and I drinks and were happy to talk to us (very glad in fact because our Japanese language skills gave them an opportunity they didn’t usually have), but never tried to initiate anything approaching romance.
I think perhaps some Japanese men were intimiated by us partly because we were not as demure as most Japanese women (I can do it, but generally I don’t). But I also I think their lack of experience with foreign women meant that they really didn’t know how they should behave and the Japanese take being polite very seriously!
However, I do find some Japanese men a bit undemanding because they are so polite to the point of not giving their opinion/agreeing with you on everything (in Japanese “dou-ii suru”). I prefer someone to challenge me. This is maybe cultural. I have met Japanese men I was attracted to, but (as yet) no romance has ever ensued.
http://sheinchina.blogspot.com/2008/10/chinese-man-western-girl.html
Jocelyn, here is an artical written by a Swedish girl. Her reasons are bias. But it is interesting to read. She is trolling, if you have time to read most of her posts you will find out.
She says Chinese men are not tall. LoL, yes in ShangHi. Cause ShangHI men are southern Chinese. But in Norther China. Man are much taller, close to 5.11(180CM) on average. The same thing apply to White guys. Spanish, Italian, Frence, and Portugal men are not that tall, average about 5.8. But Nordic, Dutch, and Some Eastern European men are average about 6 feet. So, obviously this girl named Jonna is not so smart. She also talked about Chinese men are fememine, WTF. I am really pissed when she says that, I am not a bit fememine case I was born in ChenDu not ShangHi. ShangHi is an old emperial city long been fed up all the western propaganda. Men there tend to think that they are inferior. And girls offtehn take adavantages of it and make their BF do things like carry their hand bags, and even tie their shoes. lol. But this do not apply to Northern and West Chinese men. I for one will never do those things. Again, it shows how shallow Jonna is.
People offen talk aobut Chinese guys are short, but they know that French men aren’t that tall neither? The current Frence president Nicolas Sarkozy is only 5.5(165CM), and every time when he makes a speech he put a bounch of 5 feet 3, 5 feet 2 guys behihd him to make him look tall(LMAO). And Napoliean is only 5.3. lol. Yet no one makes fun of them, oh yeah. The Frence are European, and European men are might tall and strong( Sorry to say this, I mean no offence.)
Anyway, the apperance of a man is important but his personiality and his intellengence are also important. I hope people dont just judge us based on apperance.
BTW, I am not saying America is all BAD. I am really happy that I am at UCLA now, and America is fair in terms of education. However, like Chinese people. Nothing is perfect, everything has its downside like every coin has two sides.
Chinese men like me are very hard working, smart, faimily orenated, have high values, taught to be loyal, and learned how to be a good father and take good care of our parants when they get old. The down side of us, at least for Chinese men in China is that they do not have a lot of proper manner like spitting, chocking, hocking, and nose picking. Of course I do all of that too, BUT ONLY IN THE BATHROOM not in public, and everyone else does too! Also, Chinese men in China are more close minded and are SCARED to Date White girls. 1. Because my mother always telling me how BAD White girls are like they are not loyal, have no ethics, blah blah blah. However I see through her lie and NEVER believed them. Cause my mother is a two faced hyprocrite she always say good things about White men but NEVER White women. 2. Chinese men are afraid of dating White girls because, the movies and sterotypes made them “Believe” that they are inferior.
America is an equal oppournity society AT LEAST for jobs and education but not social staus for Asian men. However, it has its good sides such as clean enviorment, safe street, and great Universities. Its bad sides are: People always make sterotypes such as Black guys are stupid, white guys have smaller penis compare to black guys, Asian guys are nerds, Mexcian guys are all gangsters…… These things divide American people and greatly hurt the national unity. For God’s sake this country is called United States of America. I just hope one day Coungress would pass laws to ban all sterotypes and Punish people who create them regardless of what race they are. Its good sides are: 1. It has great infurstructure such as high way, air port, hospitals, and Universities which make living standard high and safe. 2. It has great law enforcement which protect one’s indifidual rights and properties.
I wish people especially girls also see the good sterotypes about Chinese men instead of just the negative ones. Thank you. 🙂
Perhaps interracial, international dating and marriage should be expected to be rare in the first place. And the right question to ask then is not why foreign women/Chinese men couples are so rare, but why foreign men/Chinese women couples are so common. Here is an article that may answer the latter of the two questions. I’ve cited this article somewhere else on this website.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/KD18Ad01.html
Personally I don’t see any intrinsic value in interracial marriage. Biologically speaking, isolated populations do better at evolving traits that are adaptive to the local environment. Reproductive barrier is a necessary condition for genetic diversity, and ultimately speciation. If it weren’t for all the geological barriers between the continents, we wouldn’t have all the colorful peoples around the world today. We would all be ethnic mud. I don’t think that is necessarily a good thing. Just like inbreeding is usually a bad thing, widespread interracial breeding, which is exactly the other extreme on the spectrum, is probably not good as well.
I am in a committed relationship with a Chinese man, and I am an American white woman. We haven’t had many problems, he is very open to communication and any problems that could come up we discuss. We make similar amounts of money and after much argument he agreed to let me pay a few times. We discuss politics, flaws in Chinese society, flaws in American society, love, sex, you name it we can talk about it. I’m incredibly happy with him.
Our biggest problem is that I will not stay in China, and he is reluctant to come to America. He suspects, I think rightly, that as soon as he is a Chinese immigrant in America it will be difficult for him to get a decent job. So, in the long term I am a little worried on how we will deal with this problem when I leave. He’s already told me he wants to get married, and I would say yes in a heartbeat if I had any idea how we could work out our location problems.
And, perhaps this is a tad inappropriate but since the topic has been broached, his penis size is above average. I’ve been with white men, as well as black men, and he stacks up quite nicely. Our sex life has no problems.
I hope that more of these relationships flourish, and honestly the reason I think they don’t is because of confidence problems. I think white women intimidate many Asian men. If you look in the above comments, the Chinese-American man who had confidence had no problem getting women. I knew a few Asian-American men in high school who cleaned up, one was even a total player landing a string of white women. So, while there may be racism in both cultures involved I think the biggest problem is confidence on the part of the Asian men.
Dear All,
I am a Singapore Chinese who has being married to a Swiss Girl 12 years ago, together we have 2 children speak fluent German and Chinese.
Prior to my current wife, I have a Canadian Girl friend, who I am her first Chinese Boy Friend, I guess she was in love with me, while we are together, she has done some research and show me how the media protrait the Chinese man, basically in negative way, and how she think the misconcept should be corrected.
When I broke up with her because of my current wife (We married two years later), her asked if I have found a Chinese girl to replace me now, when I told her is a Swiss, she was shock, her first reaction was
– How can a Western Women fall in love with a Chinese
However, she then immediately correct the statement as herself doing exactly the same.
In general, personally I prefer Western Women compare to Chinese women because they are
– More independent,
– More cosmopolitan
– Good Lover
– Good cook (Except Anglo-Saxon Women)
– ……list could go on and on
However, I guess opposite attract
Wow! As a black woman, I must say I am disheartened by some of the comments made by the Chinese men (especially after reading slipknot’s comments!)
So what if the white women reject you – is that the only race you can date? When I dated a Chinese man (6’0 and born in China to my 5’3 and born in the Bronx) we got stares all the time and this is in a very “mixed” part of California. Asian men and Black women are the least likely to pair up of ANY GROUP. (Check the census data if you don’t believe me.)
I remember when I joined an online dating site, there was even a “fan club” for black women who thought Asian men were sexy, but all the women in it did was complain that Asian men weren’t interested in *them* because of the stereotypes associated with Black women.
As a successful, fit, woman I wonder why ANYONE of ANY RACE chases after someone who doesn’t want them? Slipknot or any other Chinese man who gets discouraged because White women don’t want to date them – um, are they the only race that counts? Reading “boohoo white women won’t date me!” hurts just as much TO ME as when they won’t date you. There are other colors besides white. Try some. You might be surprised.
Well, how often, if ever, do you see a black woman in China? I personally lived there for more than 18 years, six years in Beijing. I can count on two hands all the black women that I had ever ever seen in Beijing in all those years, all of whom were strongers to me, and most of whom were athletes that I spotted during the Olympic games. And I am yet to encounter a black woman outside the capital. But I used to meet white women in Beijing almost every other day, and was personally familiar with perhaps half a dozen of them.
If we are to limit our discussion to the US, it should not be surprising to see five or six times more Asian-White couples than Asian-Black couples, just because of the demographic make-up: There are simply more whites than blacks in the US. If you take socio-economic factors into account, it becomes even less likely for Asian men to meet black women, bacause the gap between Asians and blacks is greater than that between Asians and whites. For example, the average annual income is $36152 for Asians, $33030 for whites, and $27101 for blacks. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States#Race) You find similar patterns in literacy, college attendence, IQ, crime rates, divorce rates, life expectancy, etc. The cold reality is that all people everywhere, of all races, throughout history, just tend to marry within their own socio-economic classes. Maybe that is wrong. But would you marry an illiterate child-prostitute with AIDS? I know I wouldn’t. I know I wouldn’t marry a women 10 times weathier and 10 times more successful than I, either.
I meant to say “strangers”, not “strongers”
my tears just fall when i saw you and him! so beautiful.
I really wants to be your friend, i have a chinese boyfriend for 2 years already, but he went crazy. he cant handle the pressure from his society!
i suffer a lot.
I wish you guys all the happiness in the world.
about me… I dont know how much i can handle this relation.
i want to help him, but I found it so dificult.
he is shy to take my hands!
Well, Marie. I never said that I did not find Black women not attractive. I do find Hispanic and Black women attractive. But I had a lot more success with White girls. In high school I had many success. But now I am at UCLA Enginnering school and girls are really really BAD in Engineering school. SO Marie you do not need to feel bad, Asian born in American will have few problems accepting black women.
Marcia, just tell your boyfriend you love him and get married then all problem will be solved. Trust me this works. 🙂
BTW, Marie pay no attention to Roadblock.
Marcia, your boyfriend is shy because he got all fed up by Hollywook BullCrap. He lacks confident to love his white girlfriend. But he will have no problem to hold hand with a Chinese girl. I know this is FU$K up but it is true. However, you do not need to worry. Why not marry him and move him to United States then you will not have these problems. 🙂
um well my name is angie im 19 and i talk to this man from china he is 24 ^^, he is really nice to me but iv emailed him a lot and he actually called me ! ^^ and he realy seems to like me
I’m a Chinese born American male living in the U.S. and I have been married to my Caucasian wife for almost 2 years. Despite me living in the U.S. for 2 decades, I still have some customs she finds tough to overcome…especially the food, she can’t stand most real Chinese foods. Despite this, we have overcome much and love each other. And yes, we do get alot of looks while in China, and there are alot more foreign men with Chinese women than the reverse.
Yi, it’s true. The reason is that the Hollywood movie only promotes AF/WM relationships NEVER the other way around. Also China is not as wealthy as the United States and other western countries. However this is not the main reason. If you look at Japan and Korea for example, over it is still mostly AF/WM not the other way around even though Japan and Korea are just as rich. So you now know the main reason.
We Chinese/Japanese/Koreans have to work extra extra hard to overcome this bullcrap. The main thing we need to focous on is sports, if we can do well in sports then we will become much stronger and much more confident then our image will change. But Yi it is changing now. You know the recession hit western world hard and many Chinese women lost their interets in western men. So look on the bright side.
Angie, good for you that he likes you. You know that there are many guys in China like western women just like Chinese women. However Chinese men are afraid to date you because they heard all the bad sterotypes about them and the western media and movie made it even worst. But dont worry changes are on the way, stay positive.
I have a Chinese boyfriend that moved to America 4 years ago. We have been dateing for a few months now and every day we go out to do something diffrent. Were i’m from there are alot od Chinese, Japanese and Koreans but, you never see them with an American women. Everytime my boyfriend and I go out we get stared at and pointed to. My boyfriend Xun never said anything about it so I think he just didnt care. At first it bothered me but, I figured that if it didnt bother him then it shouldnt bother me. My family at first didnt like him because he was from another country but, after a wile of talking about how great our relationship it they came to like him.
We havent met each others family yeat. His parents dosnt think that our relationship would last becasue, hes from China and i’m American. Xun and I had a long talk about it. He dosnt find it in his familys favor that it would end. He tells me just because hes from China that it dosnt make a diffrence. Hes here living in America now. His family has yeat to meet me but, i’m sure they will love me.
I think it has been commonly said that a lot of guys may be afraid that their parents will not approve. Did their parents ever consider that there is a huge gender disparity? Or would they prefer their son die alone? What hateful parents. Besides, what ever happened to living your life how you want it?
Personally I couldn’t care less what my parents thought of who I dated.
To slipknot: sorry to hear your terrible experiences. I’m sure if your mother didn’t shove the negativity in your face you’d feel better about things. I’m sorry your mother hates you and doesn’t want the best for you; what kind of mother would feel that way towards her own son!? Only an asian woman can be so hateful. I’m glad you are working towards a post graduate degree. Despite being ‘nerdy’ it is what will give you power. It makes me feel good that you have the fire in you to make a change, to not let others break you down. Stay strong and never give up. If you falter, it means more work for the rest of us asian guys.
ps, jocelyn, thanks for posting this, it is always interesting to get the non asian woman’s perspective. This post is getting quite the buzz over the whole internet!
asdf. My mom is a seflhating sell out Chinese women just like the typical Asian women. After what I have gone through I can NEVER marry or even date an Asian girl anymore. I am distant to marry White girls. I have a fantasy that is to marry a Nordic girl or American girl with Nordic desenct. Funny hum? But I can not help it. This is why all of a sudden I changed myself.
1. I care about my fashion now, I wear much better clothing to make myself look even better(Since I am already a good looking guy).
2. I try hard to get rid of my accent, and now I speak English almost perfectly with very little accent.
3. I work out at the gym try to get toned musle and look even better.
I am ready to rock and roll.
One thing I hope all my fellow Chinese brothers to do is to Marry None-Chinese women. Chinese women are SPOILED, they are not worth it anymore!!! Not only do they sell out themselves but they also make up Bullsh!t lies about Chiense men to make themselves feel even better. Please my fellow Chinese men: WAKE up, STAND up and just DO IT!
I really think in the near future the opposite is going to be prevalent, like the inter-racial/inter-cultural/inter-national couples with Chinese husbands/boyfriends/partners might overshadow the couples with Chinese females. I’m just making a guess because with the gender disparity, how mobile many Chinese tend to be even spreading out througout the world and with such a (still heavily patriarchal in many ways) family-oriented background, nearly every Chinese male would strive possibly pressured to have a stable “official status” relationship.
I could be wrong.
I think it will. As China gets rich, it certainally will. The Chinese media is controled by Chinese men unlike the US media controled by White Jewish men. So Chinese media will heavly promote Chinese men to date western women and more and more young, tall, good looking, rich Chinese men will be open minded to date western women. So I think it will change too.
BTW, there are already sings of Chiese media promoting such things. Just watch CCTV, and some Chinese movies. You will see it. Chinese men are NOT as weak and scared as western men think. 😉
Also, I am one of those tall, goodlooking, young well educated Chinese men who finds western women much more attractive than Chiense girls and at least half of my Chinese male friends think the same way. 🙂
Greetings to everyone!
I am a forty-one year old American lady, (Read: I am a “mutt” of European and Native American Indian stocks.), engaged to be married to a mainland Chinese gentleman. We met online about a year ago, and we have another two years to go before we can safely marry… Our story may, or may not, surprise you…
I was born to a pair of self-made wealthy entrepreneurs in the aerospace industry, yet, despite my parent’s ultra-liberal lifestyle, my own formative years were a misery of neurotic control and deprivation. The one time I broke free and chose my own mate, my parents stole my son and paid his father to leave with our son to another country. I have not seen my son for over fifteen years now, and I doubt he even knows who I am.
I finally quite literally “divorced” my family, but for all the kudos I received in taking this action, I still felt a profound shame and unshakable sense of being absolutely “alone”. I stopped dating at first because I really needed to get my head and heart together, and, just as importantly, create a new life and sense of worth for myself. In time I enrolled in college, something my parents would never let me do, and I started my own small business.
I was in my mid-thirties before I felt emotionally ready to date again, and the expected initial disasters of being too long out of the dating scene happened, though thankfully, these mostly proved to be funny in hindsight.
I will call my fiance “wanju xiong” here, as this is what I call him in person anyway. (Bright Smile). I thought that because he was an older Chinese man, and a government official too, that I would be a pariah to him, not the other way around. His response to me took me utterly by surprise…
I was honest to him from the beginning, though the details were spread over a few months, and I even went so far as to admit that I was on good terms with only one of my blood relatives, and I told him about my past in more detail than I related here. After all was said and done, and almost a week of no response, I assumed I had chased him away, but that is when I received this single line response…
“I would like for you to belong to my family…” I was stunned, and I had to ask him many times before I could accept his answer.
I love my “wanju xiong” because he has consistently proven to be more of a man than many of the men I have met over the years. He is everything I need to feel both secure and independent, a gentle and yet firmly reliable presence in my life and spirit, and we never run out of things to talk about to each other. For over a year now he has never failed to make me laugh, smile, feel optimistic, and he is loving and supportive in everything I do. He and my good relative get along extremely well, and I am beginning a great relationship with his son from a long-extinct previous marriage. Yes, he is an extraordinary cook, and he tried to make me use chopsticks so I would eat slower than him, but the cooking is so good, I aced using the chopsticks! (Laughing Loudly!) Above all, he is gifted with the ability to be an extraordinary companion.
The reason why our relationship works so well is precisely because he is as he puts it, “a very ordinary Chinese man…” His strong sense of family, his gentle and abiding nature, his balance of pride and humility, and his companion-ability are not just a part of his nature, these qualities are a part of his culture too. The perfect man for me is located literally on the other side of the planet, and I never would have found him if not for the internet and for the efforts of people who were determined to break down the barriers of ignorance, fear, and the resulting prejudices. I have so many reasons to be grateful…
We must wait two more years until he retires before we can officially tie the knot. If we married right now he would be severely investigated by his government and he would lose his retirement benefits, for which he has worked hard for over 30 years to acquire. I call, and I visit him in China, every chance I can, and it is our hope that he can move here to America with me when he retires.
Well, that is my two cents anyways… (Smile!) I would welcome any constructive comments regarding how to make his American citizenship any easier, and tips on how he can adjust and get a job when he arrives here. Thank you so much for your patience and regard! Phoenix Dawnsinger.
Phoenix,
Wow, what a story — I am so delighted to hear from you, and to hear that you found a new life, family and home with a wonderful Chinese man. Congratulations, and thank you so much for sharing!
On the visa/American citizenship question, your best bet is to visit Candle for Love. It’s a website specifically for US citizens helping their Chinese loved ones to immigrate — the information is invaluable, and you won’t find a better source for navigating the process. Good luck!
Feichang ganxie ni, Jocelyn!
I have signed onto the “Candle for Love” website and I am currently waiting to see if the administrators will give their approval for me to begin posting. Thank you you for being so kind, encouraging, and helpful. I hope I can see posts from you at the “Candle for Love” site too.
Yours in gratitude, Phoenix Dawnsinger
Thank you for sharing your story. You are right that Chinese men are like that. In fact I am like that too, even though I am young. 🙂
Wow, never thought I would come across this when googling ‘Chinese Boyfriend’.
I am a western girl in Shanghai and I do like the Chinese men, not too much experince but I am learning as I go along. Thanks to everyone for sharing your stories. Hopefully I will have my own story to post in the future.
Hi,
I am a 26 year old Australian who met my Chinese / thai husband in university 8 years ago. We have been married for 4 years and have lived both in Australia and in Thailand.
I am moving back to Thailand next month so that my husband can work for their quite successful family business.
I have found that marrying a Chinese man comes with a lot of concerns. I love my husband very much but find that his family have too much influence over our life and marriage. For example, they want us to live in their house, they want to pay for everything, they get involved in issues which are really only our own. I love them dearly and am very grateful for their help, but by accepting their help I loose my own independance.
Can anyone please give me advise on how to manage this situation whilst still remaining respectful of their culture and them?
Thank you, Karmen
Hi Karmen,
I agree with Phoenix, that often it’s your husband who will serve as the “bridge” and help smooth things over. You should definitely tell your husband your concerns. Let him know what you value, and how you want to live.
In every marriage like ours, there is going to be compromise but that doesn’t mean you have to compromise everything. Over the years, my husband has come to understand and appreciate my independent, feminist side — and he has been able to allow me to be me without wrecking family dynamics. It helps that he praises me in front of them in ways that they understand (i.e. how I bake fantastic chicken wings for John). They have a better impression of me, and are more likely to be understanding of my more independent, feminist side.
Also, I have found it pays to show an interest in the family — for example, I’ve learned cooking from my Mother-in-law. I ask my father-in-law to do calligraphy on scrolls or small cards I give to friends/family. This builds good will and a relationship. When we come, I present them with vitamins as gifts — considered “filial” behavior. All of this creates more goodwill, and more understanding.
Really, though, the best thing to do is…start with your husband. Talk to him. He may be able to figure out tactful ways to achieve what you want so you’re happy, and his family is happy.
Also, realize that your husband’s family may be doing a lot of the things you mention to show their love and concern — not to control you. Keeping things in perspective can help diffuse the tension, and hopefully lead to more understanding.
Good luck, and do let me know how things turn out.
Best,
Jocelyn
Greetings Karmen!
I understand and sympathize, as I have a rough time when my fiance meddles deeply in my uncle’s dating life, allows his twenty year old son to decide on matters relating to our very intimate lives, gives me orders, and is in effect an autocrat backed by a filial committee that will ever see me as the “foreigner”… It’s a permanent part of the package.
I cannot weigh in on a four year marriage, as I have only be an observer of the best and worst of my family’s marriages, and my own experience in matters of pair bonding is rather limited.
That said, I am operating on what kept my twenty-plus years of friendships strong even after the worst of acid tests, including being housemates with a few of the more interesting ones for a long stretch of years apiece.
What works for me is to take a deep breath and do the following reality check… I remember with as much objectivity as I can muster, what my life was like before my Wanju Xiong came into it, and then, I look at my life as it is right now. I literally weigh the good and the bad. The criteria is simple… Is my life just a little bit happier, safer, more stable, and more productive, just a little more often, than it was before I brought him in? When we argue, do I automatically think of ways to leave or worse? Or, do I automatically think of ways to create a compromise that will work for both of us. On some days, it’s a really close call, but when I think of the alternative, I am humbled yet empowered at the same time.
I’m sorry, but the filial dominion is eternal, the only route is passive resistance. Pay the bill before they can, praise your husband’s advise and independence without asserting an opinion on the family, or, put in a pleasant but noncommittal comment if required. Let the parents think that their input matters, and let them win the skirmishes, and I promise you, it will not cost you an otherwise wonderful marriage… In a word, pick your battles wisely, because regardless of his family or their race, the ultimate answer to an ultimatum is always, “no”. Never, never, make your husband chose between you or his family because that will ensure that you lose. On the other hand, don’t let the parents become your cross to bear. Keep being yourself, if husband complains, tell him you are still the lady he married, and kindly ask him who changed the script just because the parents want to crawl into the matrimonial bed?
Remember you are an Australian, and I think it’s safe to assume that your husband should be grateful he was spared from having to cope with your own set of meddling relatives. Add to this perspective that, if your marriage did not turn him into an Australian it didn’t change you into a Chinese person. Compromise ends where one’s real identity begins. The tough of this is, you must first convince your husband, and then ,only he can convince his family. Diplomacy, tact, enduring patience, and a very carefully considered bottom line are needed here. I wish you a ton of good luck and good results.
Faithfully, Phoenix Dawnsinger
Thank you Phoenix and Jocelyn.
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your comments and advice. What you are saying is true, my husband is the love of my life and I would hate for that to change. At the end of the day, these really are small issues in what can be a wonderful life together.
It is also nice to know that other’s are / have been in the same situation as me. It can be lonely sometimes to think you’re the only one who is going through a particular situation.
Thank you again, I really appreciate it. I will write again once I have moved to keep you up to date.
Karmen X0
I was just trying to use google to find a way to meet foreign girls here in China and consequently found this blog. I decided to come to university in China just to study Chinese because it’s so different from English. I thought that this would be the perfect way to meet someone with whom I could have much in common. How painfully right I was.
She was Russian. She got a new job and I quit university to follow her. She started making money on her own and didn’t need me to pay for everything so it was over quicker than it started.
I have had Chinese dude friends who were totally cool and I tried to set them up with random foreign girls but most foreign girls have already made up their minds about love be it not to live in China long enough to care about anybody – or that Chinese guys are just lame. Both of these suppositions are sucky and self-centered at best however for single girls you do need a thick skin to live here and being an asshole is just a necessary side-effect.
Greetings Everyone!
Jocelyn, in utter seriousness, if you ever offer classes in tact and finesse I want the first invite. What’s really great is, when you gave Karmen your advise, I found plenty for me in there too, so, my thanks too!
Karmen, it’s easy to lose perspective when you feel like your going it alone. We are here for you, and know that you’re letting us know that we are not alone too. Please stick around! (Bright Smile!)
Louieman and other folks with the chip on your shoulders, here’s my two cents…
Being my usual demure and tactful self, I can say from experience that being an asshole is an explanation, not an excuse. It’s a lot easier to hate than to love because hate remove the labor and conscience necessary to be held accountable for one’s own words and actions. I’ve lived with assholes my entire life and never once did the explanations for being a jerk excuse their behavior. Let’s call a kettle a kettle, shall we?
See Jocelyn, I really need to take a few of your classes…
All that said, I am familiar with the circumstances you speak of… My Wanju Xiong (Toy Bear or Teddy Bear- Mandarin Pinyin Chinese) is a very handsome fellow with a truly wonderful personality, his son is gorgeous by any racial standards, and I am a head-turner even at my age. It’s abundantly obvious to anyone who sees us together that the love is quite real and present in massive doses. Still, no matter which racial company we keep, I am invariably asked why a woman of my caliber would chose a Chinese man, and, my fiance is just as frequently asked how he managed to get and keep me. I am past taking offense anymore, and after awhile, I began to wonder what caused these comments in the first place.
Well, there’s a lot of ignorance, conceit, rude, and hardening of the attitude going on in the world, and I’m here to tell you, there’s no broad-spectrum or one-size-fits-all cure for this condition. Sometimes the hardest part of choosing to be a product of your own shaping rather than to be a perpetual victim of circumstances is to find the power to consistently walk away from the things that hurt you every time the challenge arises. People are only able to hurt you if you enable them… I can talk about my past because it doesn’t hurt me anymore, his gift to me was to disarm that weapon. My gift to him was to prove that I could love him with equally unconditional love. We are facing so many battles, and we would not have made it this far without that commitment.
Beyond that fact, there’s plain old insecurity…
#1… If it’s worth cherishing, then you damned sure will not give it away to anyone who asks, and you’ll protect it with dignity, reverence, and a knowledge of it’s real worth. If you’re throwing away everything you are and have, to win someone, then you can expect to be thrown away in turn.
#2… Love is about an abiding faith, trust, and investment that surpasses hope, lust, insecurity, and complacency. You have to know why you are worth that kind of investment before you can ask someone else to make that investment in you.
#3… You’re special, and if that means not everyone will like you, much less love you, realize that the people who will love you will be just as rare as you are. Make yourself the person you want and need to be, set realistic, practical, honest, and achievable goals, and then stick to your guns. Wait until the people who can love you in truth, in whole, and as you are, prove that they really do love you for you. I had to wait over thirty years, you shouldn’t have to wait more than a few months of honest insight and constructive change. It takes twenty-one consistent and dedicated efforts to form a new habit, get started…
If we could do it, so can you!
Faithfully, Phoenix Dawnsinger
Phoenix Dawn, do you still remember the song “How deep is your love” by Bee Gee.
A lot of people are just foolish, jelouos, and full of hate some times. They only want to see things they like to see, in this case AF/WM. So when they see the other way around, they get upset and MAD. Try to break you down, when they all should just let you be.
Louieman, I saw your blog and read some of your stories. Man, you are full of SH!T.
Greetings everyone!
Hey Slipknot, your back! How are ya?
Gentlemen, fertilizer has it’s own merits…
I work and learn at my local university, and on a few occasions at the end of the semester, I goof around with the kids. I am almost abnormally strong, so I can pick husky young male students, carry them down the hall, set them down next to the potted plants, and comment dryly on how all “potted plants” should be organized in to attractive groupings, and if one of said “plants” has proven to be a provider of much fertilizer, then our amazing talking turnip can share with his peers.
And right around this time is when the kids gang up on me, carry me out to the collection of life-sized statues at the center of the campus, and deposit me in a ridiculous pose next to the bronzes. Thereupon I am dryly told that the statues are far wittier than myself, that they give far less boring lectures, and even they will refuse to be held as my captive audience, preferring instead to slowly inch away and summons the pigeons while I drone another lullaby.
Guess how this one ends? Well, everyone busts a gut laughing and we walk across the street for pizza and beer. A tradition that is running into it’s fifth year…
I am sleepless tonight because in a few days, I must do something that breaks my heart. I must tell a lady I love very much “goodbye forever”. They say fear and hate are father and son, and my experiences have proven that maxim is true. My dearest friend was very badly abused as a child, and nobody feels more compassion for her than I do. The lady grew up to raise two children without abusing them, but she never sought professional council for her past. As two battles with near-fatal rounds of cancer blended with four failed marriages, the lady’s old fears returned. The fear became sorrow, but sorrow immobilizes and she needed motivation. She found it in anger. Initially, the anger helped to fight against her plight, and for a short time, she was on top again. But anger is an all-consuming sickness, no less deadly and twisted than her cancers were, and the inevitable happened. In a nutshell, she utterly destroyed her life, ensured she would always be alone, and she finally drove away the family and friends who abide her increasingly criminal acts of venom for over twenty years. She blames us, and she is right.
How do you think this one ends? We had to acknowledge that our unconditional love had actually enabled a very sick woman to make us sick too. No matter how strange, cruel, or wonderful, people will remain true to the habits that fulfill the real needs of their real natures. If a vampire must bite innocent victims to change them into vampires, then they will do as their nature dictates, regardless of your love, actions, wishes, or words. How can we save someone from the behavior that makes them feel better, even when that behavior is doing them and others so much harm? You can’t.
I am reminded of a time when my great grandparents made me stand and observe a line of trees that had been used by a fella to create a natural fence. My “Adawehe” said, “In the years when I was your age now, a lightening strike burned this entire patch of forest to the ground. My brothers and I gathered seeds from the few remaining trees and what you see here is our investment. These trees are brothers and sisters; all are the same age, and all have endured the same blessings and hardships. A man wrapped barbed wire around all of them, but while some trees lived, others died. Can you see the reason why?” I studied the trees very hard, and after a brilliant childhood epiphany, it occurred to me to think of the trees as living entities that can feel and move away from pain as any animal would. The trees that died literally pulled their bark away from the barbed wired until the tree’s sap “bled out”, and disease and bugs took care of the rest. The trees that lived created massive bark scars around the barbed wire, shielding their vulnerable “green flesh” from the damages of rubbing barbs. I said as much to my grandfather, to which he smiled and commented…
“This phenomenon is not uncommon, and it is often used by our folk to teach a lesson in human as well as plant behavior. We can think of the barbed wire as the hate, greed, jealousy, and apathy that slowly saw their ways into our core being. The ones who respond to harm by inflicting harm, even if to only themselves, are consumed within by a force that is even more destructive than the original source of their pain. They are dead, attractive only to things that consume the dead. The trees that lived show us that choosing to heal is a choice to live too. These trees chose to be survivors rather than victims, and their continued lives benefit all.”
My great-grandmother nodded her head impatiently, and after a short absence, she returned with a small hand ax. To my horror, she began to hack at the scars of the living trees. I tried to stop her, but her husband detained me with a sad smile.
My grandmother replied… “Yes, these trees can be said to be the teachers of human nature, even in this matter… If you do not remove that source of pain quickly with the help of knowledgeable and determined persons, that damned “barbed wire” will become lost inside a lot of “scar tissue” even as it’s continued presence in it’s original dangerous form remains. The tree heals and grows, but the barbed wire is chewing it’s way into an outwardly expanding heart, strangling the tree from within. And so a tree that has survived so much can still be slain invisibly and by degrees so many years later, by the very same adversity that taught it to be strong…”
My own words can hardly match the moment… Time to stand by my bronze buddies right now, and wonder what the real nature of “fertilizer” is… Ugh! Thanks pigeons, I can do with a much less graphic illustration of it!
Love ya! Phoenix Dawnsinger.
Thankyou so much Slipknot for reading my blog! Which part did you read? I assure you that they are not stories, I update so infrequently that believe me I’ve had time to compile only the weirdest of experiences. Are you in China too?
Check back often and don’t be a stranger, buddy!
p.s. my name is 路易.
The reason why I think foreign girls rarely date Chinese guys is because of politics and national policy in China. You know how open and free the west is. However, China is exactly opposite because it is a communist state. The civilians are pressured by the Chinese government. For example, internet censorship is a major issue in China. The chinese government blocks a lot of websites such as youtube, facebook, twitter, any politically sensitive sites and porn sites. It’s like there is barely freedom in China. Because of those kind of policy, Chinese people are pretty conservative. Therefore, why would a foriegn girl wanna marry a Chinese guy and live in a country with this kind of policy? It’s all Chinese girls that marry foreign guys and rely on them so they can live in the west and enjoy the freedom and openness of the west. This is what I think!
I am a nice ,cute chinese guy …want a western woman , lol ….living in southeast of china ,Wenzhou city .
contact me ,if u interested in : [email protected]
Tony, what you said is BullSh!t. The reason why foreign women rarely date Chines emen are: 1. China is still not as wealth as the west yet, but she is getting there. So imagine a low income Chinese man date a high income western woman, you can clearly feel the insecurity complex that Chinese man will face. 2. The western media put Harsh and horrific sterotypes against Chinese men, and since most western women are brain washed by their media, they look down on Chinese men at the first place therefore, will not even consider dating one. 3. Chinese men are traditional and thinks that marrying a western woman will ruin their culture. 4. Neagative sterotypes against western women also play a huge roll, many Chinese men believe that western women are not as loyal and lack family values as Chinese women. However, this is changing very fast. Many young and mid-age Chinese men began to realize that Chinese women are getting more and more bitchy, westernlized, and brain washed too. Chinese women begin to sell themslves out and bash Chinese men also make up lies to make Chinese men look bad. As a reslut, many young and mid-aged Chiense men are more open minded to marry non-Chinese women.
If you say that the reson western women rarely date Chinese men is because China lack “freedom”, then how can you explain so many Chinese women sell out to foregin men?
But I think this trend will change within on decade, you have to know that China is controlled by Chinese men, NOT Chinese women. And many powerful Chinese men are sick of the status quote they will do what ever it takes to change it!!
Dear Slipknot…
Whoa handsome, let’s back up…
My wanju xiong is soon turning fifty, and he’s so traditional Chinese he’s a stereotype. Long story short, his ex-wife wanted a richer and more challenging man, so she ran off with his American pal. My fiancee misses his pal, but not so much the ex.
When we met online, I was past fed up with the fact that I was a bug light for bad boys, and I had a lot of karma to burn off. He is a government official in a supervisory position, and even daydreaming about cavorting with an American nymphet is grounds for an on-the-job malcontent to cause all kinds of mischief for him.
Want to know what makes it work for us? He has more cause than any Anglo man to cherish my unconventional personality and lifestyle, and, I finally found a man who is more dependable, attentive, and appreciative than his Anglo counterparts. At the end of even the worst of days, we unfailingly find a reason to laugh, forgive, and move on. In essence, we are best friends.
You are such a smart and versatile young man, and the only thing that stands in the way of love for you, is.. You. So please, don’t focus on trying to change people and societies that don’t give a damned what you want. Focus all that energy into something you can change, your own perspective. When you are sitting at dinner with your lady, what do you want her to talk about? Would you like to hear her talk about what makes you special to her, or, do you want to hear what she thinks about men and society?
Think about it.
I have proof on the pages above that you have that most remarkable trait I’ve unfailingly found in Chinese men… You’re a xiong mao, and you’re so busy showing your teeth, that you forget that what sets you apart from the other bears is your gentleness. Find a lady who is allergic to macho men who think a woman is a clay sculpture… His to mold, and she’s there to be of service and be seen but not to be served or heard… I can promise you, there are a lot of us around…
My love and I don’t care if we can change the world, we only care about changing our lives, one hug, one argument, and one cleared up misunderstanding at a time. That would be a good start for you too!
Besides, growling at malcontents should be left to ornery old bears like me! (Laughing Loudly!)
Take care of yourself! My sincerest regards, Phoenix Dawnsinger
many chinese men think western(american)women are not traditional due to the high divorse rates in america.china,japan,korea,india and the rest of sout east asia are traditional societies where men are supposed to love their wives and women are supposed to respect their husbands.chinese men think western women lack respect for their husbands,they also think western women are rich so why bother to impress a woman when she doesn,t need you.in a chinese man,s head he will be thinking she has all the money she needs so she doesn,t need me or any other man.
Dear Carl…
I have asked my wanju xiong, who currently lives in Mainland China, about your statement. Here is what he said…
“…Respectfully, he, (Carl), is not entirely correct. The divorce rate in China right now is higher than ever, and it is because Chinese women are seeking rich men overseas…” My fiancee’s experiences have suggested to him that it is the Chinese woman, and not the Chinese man, who seeks to break from tradition.
That said, the issue of divorce rates is a woman’s suffrage issue in every culture, but even a cursory read of England’s society until the abolishment of anti-divorce laws can tell you why women flood to the divorce attorneys when divorce is made available to them. In a nutshell, when marriage is a form of slavery, being bound even to a nice and faithful man who is a drunk and gambler is a life of abject misery for his wife. Being unable to free yourself from a spouse who beats, starves or neglects you will make you appreciate the notion that some “traditions” enable the very opposite behaviors they are claimed to support. Traditionally and historically, who metes any real punishment to a man who mistreats his wife? Conversely, who protects a wife from being punished if her family is unable or unwilling to protect her?
In the bottom line, enabling punishment and stigmata -free divorces may allow more divorces to happen, but men, as well as women, are freed from a life of suffering alongside a dismal mate choice, and BOTH genders are compelled to behave like better human beings when the penalty for being a lousy spouse is that your spouse can leave you and shop elsewhere. Divorce lets two people wreck hell on each other upon departure, but it does end. If they fought so evilly in the divorce, can you imagine what the everyday life in that marriage was like?
Although Nicollo Machiavelli has some extraordinary advise on this topic, I will instead paraphrase the author “David Gerrold” in his book “A Matter for Men”.
“…Never assume that you have either freedom or rights, because as long as you must depend upon a society, your rights and freedoms are either granted or denied by that society… You must always fight to win, and to keep, any freedom or rights you obtain or you will lose them much easier than you obtained them…”
He goes on to say, “Freedom is the OPPORTUNITY to the right to be held responsible and accountable for your own words and actions…”
If you are not awarded the opportunity to be held accountable for yourself, but, you are held accountable for someone else’s deeds, then let me ask you, is this freedom or rights?… More importantly, is this happiness?
Does “tradition” make the marriage work, or, does companionship that runs stronger than love and temptation actually create the perfect marriage?
Having grown up in an abusive home, I can speak in the same voice as my many counterparts around the world… I am a better person who makes better choices because I am allowed to make those choices on my own behalf… Including walking away forever from a life of misery and choosing to be a product of my own choices rather than being a victim of my circumstances. Traditions are formulas of generalization, so it actually works for less people, and not for most people. Am I an “iconoclast” for saying this? Hardly… I respect tradition far more than most would imagine, but what I respect most is quality of life.
I caution Slipknot against generalizations because these have given him an anger that prevents him from achieving his goals, and I stated that each relationship has it’s own unique chemistry. No matter what culture or country you are from, or which gender you are, being a friend, companion, confidante, and loyal cheerleader is the foundation of any good marriage.
My relationship with my beloved thrives because we abandoned the stereotypes and discovered that underneath his conservative demeanor, he is longing for a chance to embrace a less repressed side to himself, and in him, I find that stability and duty can be the means to being free in truth, because I have a consistent rock to climb onto when the seas of life get rough. For most people this kind of attraction is temporary, and it’s part of a healing process. We are a rare pairing because we discovered a genuine friendship along the way. No formula, no tradition, no hedonism, or heroism. At the end of the day, we simply feel good together.
Why do I keep going back to talking about my relationship? Glad you asked… What you need to talk about are your relationships as an individual with other individuals. We cannot know all in even one person other than ourselves, so please, offer me the solution that works for you… Personally. From this collection of individual experiences, we may or may not be able to find a concensus, but we should be able to find the clues that help us start on our own roads to personal truths. My love and I did not pair up for any of the reasons mentioned by anyone here other than me. I prove and rest my case on this point. I sincerely wish all of you great luck, and even greater love.
I am faithfully yours, Phoenix Dawnsinger
You are right. I really want to change the status quote. Wow, your boyfriend’s ex-wife divorced him just to be with a White American guy? This is so sick, makes me SICK to Stomach when thinking about Chinese women.
I can not changed the status quote alone, and I need help. However, many Asians living in the United States are nothing but Sheeps, Sheeps are get pushed around, and let other people sit on their head and Sh!T on it. lol, this is sad yet TRUE. For so many years, they been kept down yet they dont really realize it.
Slipknot, you’re such a drama queen. People are people everywhere.
This topic started very well, but it’s getting boring now.
Perhaps we should only let AM/WF couples comment here. 🙂
WF? So black and Asian women cannot make valuable contributions? What if a black girl marries a Chinese guy?
This is a light hearted comment that’s a little bit related.
I’m aware that life is different in the Giant country of Mainland China and the ethnic Chinese communities around the world with many significant differences but some generalized similarities.
There is this show in Taiwan called WTOå§å¦¹æœƒ. It focues on a panel of foreign women (from all over the world) who married men in Taiwan, some have been there for well over a decade. They talk about several topics such as some listed in the comments, cultural differences, children, marriage customs, romance, companionship, etc. Kind of down to earth in several aspects, and a bit more mature since half of the women there are older.
However, I want to say that it is primarily an entertainment show so it’s geared towards making laughs for general viewers so there’s going to be a few instances of insensitive/possibly offensive remarks but overall not enough to spoil the show. Don’t expect any lengthy intellectual talks too, and not all the information there is accurate, but no big deal. Occasionaly they do get serious and here’s an interesting point I found, at least for me. Due to the fluency in Mandarin (with their unique accents) and really the life experiences + maternal atmosphere of the show, the foreign women do feel as warm as any of the “Ah-Yees” and “Da-Sau(s)” one meets in real life.
You all can check it out on Youtube and Tudou or any website you all can think of.
Hello Friend!
Thanks for putting us back on topic. I will look into these shows as I may be one of the target audience! (Laughing!).
As for Zictor, comments from Black or Asian women don’t count for much if you will not listen to the comments from White women or Asian men. In all forums, this one included, every story, even the “Wild” ones, have a grain of truth, and with enough references from different sources, a consensus of facts can be gleaned, so everyone’s comments have merit in my opinion. My love for a Chinese man has made me hungry to understand all I can about him and his world… But of course, I’m naturally curious anyways… (Smile!)
On that note, when I was in Seattle, WA, I used to wander for weeks at a time in the warrens of Asian shanty towns there, and I learned a lot of things… Unfortunately, my ignorance then did not allow me to separate what I learned or experienced into their respective and proper cultural origins. I will not make that mistake now…
So tell me, Friend… What are the English translations of “Ah-Yees” and “Da-Sau” ?
Faithfully, Phoenix Dawnsinger
@Friend
I didn’t realize Taiwan had such a program. How cool! I will definitely look it up.
@Phoenix
“Ah-Yee” (or, in pinyin, Aiyi) means “Aunt”, but it is also a polite term, like ma’am, that younger people and children use to refer to older women. “Da-Sau” (in pinyin, Dasao) means oldest sister-in-law.
@ Phoenix Dawnsinger
Phoenix, at what point did I say I wasn’t going to listen? My previous comment was in response to Slipknot’s stupid comment saying that only Asian men and White Women should be commenting on this topic.
There are very few Black femal and Asian male marriages.
ORLY????
There are very few white female and Asian male marriages as well. Should they not have the right to an opinion? Oh, wait, this post is all about the infrequency of these marriages. Which means that your point goes against the post, and therefore should not be taken into account.
Zictor…
Alright, we know Slipknot has issues, so what’s your excuse?
Are you contributing anything useful, constructive, or thoughtful to this site by using it to wreak the same kind of behavior on Slipknot that you are accusing him of displaying? As you so adroitly pointed out yourself, this is a site about the rarity of marriages between Asian men and foreign women… Not a site to call technical fouls and perform character assassinations on other contributors. If you have more useless nastiness to contribute, then please take it to a private exchange, because another reason for this site is to find a common link of understanding and affection with others in a very scarce community. You are obviously a very smart person, so grow some mature wisdom, dial it down, and show us someone we can respect, then others can follow your example. ‘Nuff said on this subject…
Slipknot… My all-American mom would make yours look like a devoted patron saint. I figured out that anger is a sickness, and complaining never helped, so I turned the page. I wrote the post about…”Sometimes the hardest part of choosing to be a product of your own shaping rather than to be a perpetual victim of circumstances is to find the power to consistently walk away from the things that hurt you every time the challenge arises. People are only able to hurt you if you enable them…” I had you in mind when I said that. Now you need to chose… Will you heal or will you let that “barbed wire” strangle you from within?
Jocelyn… Sorry, it’s the university instructor coming out in me…
Thank you very much for your translations of Friend’s words… Were these Mandarin Chinese, or another language?
I’ve encountered something else rather confusing, and I’d like to know if you encountered this yourself… My uncle is effectively my only family guardian, and he, “Richard”, will be giving me away at my wedding. Back when my fiancee proposed, my fiancee told Richard that he wanted Richard to visit him in China before I would actually meet the man who proposed to me. Richard and I were so shocked, that we flooded my wanju xiong with a thousand questions, whereupon my darling had a panic attack and almost called off the engagement. We now understand that this was a cultural thing, but I would really like to get a better and more complete understanding of this custom. I’ve noted that my fiancee considers having a best friend relationship with my uncle, (Who is eight years older than my fiancee.), every bit as important as having a harmonious relationship with me. Can you explain a bit about that too?
Well, back to grading final exams… Zicter and Slipknot, I suggest you two go out and drink a few beers together… And let me have primary filming rights over anything that happens between you two after the first pitcher has been consumed. Wen ni!
Faithfully, Phoenix Dawnsinger.
Phoenix,
You have clearly not read all the comments in this post (true, there is over 140 of them). If you go back to the very earliest ones, you’ll my lengthy post analysing the phenomenon as an outsider.
Basically, I said that stereotypes have a reason to exist and they can be right.
Then I said that when two people find a connection in this crazy world we live in, stereotypes mean nothing (quite applicable to your case, actually).
And then I presented another reason for such a shortage of AM/WF unions: the Chinese society is actually so closed it actually presents an obstacle for good pairings between Asian men and foreign women (white, black of green).
Honestly, I believe all the reasons presented in the post and the comments play a role in all cases. The main thing is that each issue plays a stronger or weaker role in each particular case.
Now, talking about wisdom, please allow me to give you some advice: Check your facts, stick to what you know.
You assumed I hadn’t contributed anything because you weren’t seeing my comments. The reason for that is because they were made very early (in this discussion) and don’t show on the first page anymore. You DO have the right to think that my comments are absolute bullshit, but you cannot say everybody agrees with you.
If you really want to know what kind of contributions I brought, just click a couple of time on “Older Comments” until there are no more “Older Comments” links and you can then read (and judge) whatever I thought I was contributing to the debate.
Or you can just act like Roadblock and Slipknot.
…But because I love him.
That’s the thing to break all the stereotypes.
So what is your story Aaron?
Because of totally curiosity,western girls completely differ from Chinese grils,blonde hair ,sky color eyes. it isnt impossible to marry with a western girl.But who knows its just your destiny .If you are the one appropriate for white .Thats all.AS for a little little little very little proportion of white girls and Chinese marriage ,it can be taken into consideration in many aspect ,social statues,wealth,cultural difference,different life style and forth.Obviously,beautiful western girl is really really realy attraction for Chinese boy.But but but Chinese boys who will brave enough to talk with a foreigner girl on the streets.They are afraiding(nothing to laugh).They are thinking about the consequence.The one is succeeful to talk and to be friends,or even further developing .but how about the second one.Foreigner girls will think you are insane and neglect you.I WONT try forever.what,s more ,there is little chance to get close to foreigners even in big metropolitan.all in all,it is really really really really really hard to know about them
Hello Arron and Here…
Both of you hit right at the heart of the matter in my experience…
First, a person of any racial origin must open their heart to the possibility of loving, and being loved by, someone not of their own race or culture. Second, bravery and persistence are needed to achieve any goal, especially love, and the power to move beyond obstacles can only come from a strong belief in your mission.
My wanju xiong and I are going through the roughest patch of our relationship so far at this time thanks to his job, but no matter how many troubles we encounter, we know that neither of us can walk away from the other. This is not a torrid forbidden love scene thing, it is two late middle-age folks enduring in quiet and abiding faith.
Here, you should know that there are a number of foreign ladies, myself included, who do not have blonde hair or blue eyes, but, we sure love our Chinese men! (Laughing!). True, my own wanju xiong had a pretty Russian love interest who fit that blonde and blue-eyed stereotype, but yours truly, with my brown eyes and black curly hair, won his heart in the end. If the foreign woman has the right heart and temperament, then forget the colors, and do what my fiance did, be brave and tell her she’s beautiful and facinating…
Good luck and happy holidays to everyone!
Phoenix Dawnsinger
em,Phoenix.I truly agree with your opinion.I dont know about myself. i am still a white paper(that mean i never have a girlfriend).So as to me ,a man never date with a Chinese girl.Really i dont know how to communicate with a foreigner.That,s make sence.Eyes’and hair color is not important.The esence is that you love or not.Okey,seems i dont know what’s the next topic.I really believe that with the fast growth of Chinese economic,our motherland become richer and richer,Chinese will be weathier than before.i think that Internatinal marrige will be popular,including foreigner girls and Chinese men.LOVE IS based on a special sensation.But but but i really need financial support.Actually,most girls like diamond rings,jewelry,millionare,money and rich man.This society is realistic.there is a saying:no money ,no wife.That make sense.ABOUT 400 hundreds ago, the world center changed form China to West Europe.As every Chinese knows,it happened after the famous Chinese navigator Zheng he had finished his magnificent seven times global journeys partly.I analyze the difference between Chinese and Columbus on this matter.I FINALLY get the conclusion that Zheng he want to show off Chinese property on behalf of Ming Dynasty.Western navigator actually represent their country tosail,but the difference is that they want money ,more benefit from other country ,to make business with other nation on esence.Obivously,Western Cultural characteristic have been developed further at that moment after medieval.That is science and technology.that also we chinese culture dont focus on.Finally.it promoted fastly that industrial revolutionary take place in Britain.This crucical symbol expanded the distance between Western civilization and Oriental civilization.concerning Chinese national institution ,the most defectness is too centralise,hamper the individual development.But in the meantime,the best benefit of this institution is that the whole country can develop fastest by government administation.Return to today,conspiciously that’s why China has achieved the spendid accomplishment in economics,and it will spread to other aspects.Such as military,army, air force ,navy and so on. It can be preceived on our 60th national celebration. I talked too much probably it has nothing to do with the topic we talked here.BUT i want to reveal why many Chinese think foreigner girls is more beautiful.Because the mainstream culture is still Western Culture.Our Chinese value of beauty had been changed when we was watching hollywood movie,fashionable clothes,hi-tech weapon .its cooler than Chinese.the sense is you love the guy,you love everything about the guy.That make sense. So so so
Found another article written by a Yangxifu about dating Chinese Men — thanks for pointing this out to me, Jessica!
who said Asians in America do not realize this issue. We are turning the tables now! come and chat with us. womenforasianmen.com
Hi Rich,
Thanks so much for your comment, and for sharing this website! I’m sure it will be of interest to my readers, so I’m adding it to my links.
I don’t know if my story will help anyone but, I do need a bit of confirmation to move over this road block, and regain my courage.
I think it was a month or 2 ago now that I had a crush on this Vietnamese boy. (Even though this topic seems centered around Chinese men..I’ve never met any, except for this one INCREDIBLE waiter I had back in Hong Kong a couple of years ago. He was sweet, and shy, and very courteous to my dad, and I when we went to the resturant. We even came back a couple of times, because we enjoyed talking with him. BUT this is a story of anyother time ^^;)
Anyways, I had a crush on this Vietnamese boy, and I told my close friend (whom happens to be asian also) about him. After a week or 2 she realised she had the same math class as him, and wanted to see if he would be interested for me. I blatantly refused, so like the good best friend she is, she found a way to humiliate me by figuring a way to drag me to him (even though I was refusing any help whatsoever!), and make me confess. I made a compromise with her: that if I promised to confess to him by myself she’d stop trying to force me to. Well being semi-shy as I am..it took me a good part of 3 weeks to get the courage to tell him.
And so I did. My result…rejection. I didn’t know what the problem is..but I thought maybe it could be because I appear African American? (I’m a Somali American, and cupids’ arrow shoots right through me at the sight of ANY Asian male. ^^)
But after that I began to have doubts that any asian man would find me attractive. I know..I’m not supposed to let this hurt cloud my rational mind..that just because of this ONE time, doesn’t mean it’ll happen again. But it took a lot to get my courage to tell him, and then I got refused..I even had the right mind-set, that I’d be ok, and support him if his parents wanted him to dump me, or if we got stares, and finger points. Maybe I got my hopes too high?
But just a couple of weeks ago my best friend who has his math class said she thinks he likes her. She also said that he didn’t know she was asian about a month ago, but now…I can’t help but think that “does he like her because she’s asian?” I didn’t particutarly have feelings for him until she told me that he might like her that faithful day a couple of weeks ago (or at least I convinced myself I didn’t have feelings). But hearing that just hurt me again, and now I’ve got my eyes set on anyother asian man, but I just can’t recover that last hurt to pursue this new affection.
Anyone have any advice, or comments? They’re greatly appreciated!!
~Yaz
Hi
I’m also married to a Chinese man – have been since 1997. I’m writing a series of articles looking at the lives of the women in his family – my mother-in-law, sisters-in-law and nieces-in-law. If anyone is interested, please take a look. It’s in its early stage, but expect more posts soon.
http://foreignerinthefamily.blogspot.com/
Thanks!
Dear Elliot,
Thanks for sharing your background, and your blog. In the published world, there really is a dearth of voices from foreign women in China who have become so close to the culture, as you have. I applaud your efforts, and added your blog to my “Foreign Women + Chinese Men” links, and will continue to follow you.
Dear Yaz…
My heart goes out to you, and though I cannot be absolutely certain about what really happened to you from the viewpoint of someone on the scene, I feel compelled to point out two things I learned from my own experiences.
First, most of the Somali people I have encountered were quite attractive and charming. I can twig that you have a wonderful personality, and I’ll bet good money that you turn many more heads than you think when you walk by. It’s not empty flattery, because how your friend behaved may actually confirm the truth of my words.
Though your letter is brief, it is very concise, and everything you said points to a deeply competitive “friend”. Re-read your own letter, and as yourself a few questions, like, would a person who knows and loves me well willfully, and with abundant knowledge of my insecurity, *force* me into an encounter she knows will traumatize and humiliate me… *and* him? This arrangement was obviously intended to achieve the results it did, and with the expected terminal fail, why would a loving friend then “confide” to you that *your* former love interest is now attracted to *her*? If the role were reversed, how would you have felt and behaved? I am thinking, not the same as your un-friend did. According to your own frankly honest and sincere letter, your wise heart sees something your self-doubts do not want you to see… Your “friend” is actually an enemy, and the smart thing to do is the courageous thing… Shower your un-friend with indifference, and find a real friend who think your friendship and trust are more important than a boost to her own weak ego at your expense. You would be pleasantly surprised at how much the upgrade in friend quality can improve your own self-worth.
As for your appeal to Asian men, I know a number of Asian men who would only date “dark ladies”, and they married a black or copper-skinned beauty too. I can assure you this is not an isolated coincidence or a generational thing. As your un-friend well knows, most (Not all!) Asian men are extremely shy about their sexual appeal to ladies of non-Asian races or cultures. I can promise you with absolute certainty that, sans the static from a viciously competitive “go-between”, you’ll be quick to discover that your shy but warm personality is actually quite irresistible, especially when combined with your exotic looks and naturally optimistic mindset . I can clearly read a near-future for you happily snuggling in the shoulder of a handsome Asian man… I have to smile in irony as I firmly assert that an old worn-out adage really applies to you in this case… Just be yourself, and you will be loved for being exactly who and what you are…. Specifically, by Asian men.
From now on, confine yourself to a test that worked for me for years… Firmly commit to the pledge of telling your intended your feelings for him *before* you tell anyone else. If you cannot build up the courage to tell him first, then you are not at a place emotionally where it is safe to confide in someone else. Even a well-intentioned friend will be subjective, and may be tempted to meddle if you do not move as fast as she would. That said, a real friend doesn’t sink the ship and then pose herself as the rescuer and claim the reward. Cut that dead anchor loose, and you will not only move on, you will move upward, where both of you know you belong… A beautiful butterfly must spread her wings… Best of luck and love to you.
Faithfully, Phoenix Dawnsinger
Phoenix, what a generous reply! I could not have said it any better.
Yaz,
I completely agree with Phoenix, that this sounds like a case of sabotage from a friend who is not really your friend. As for Asian men not being interested in dark-skinned women…as Phoenix said, there are definitely Asian men out there who would want to date you. From my experience with Chinese men, the Chinese guys who usually end up dating foreign women of all types tend to be a little more unconventional, willing to buck the traditional ideas the generations of the past may have had about dating/marriage (and even what family says — which was the case for my husband). Indeed, just be yourself, as Phoenix said.
Good luck to you, and hope you can, as my husband often says, “courageously move forward.”
To Phoenix and Jocelyn,
Thank you both for your moving words, and wonderful advice!
Re-reading my story, and taking into account what Phoenix said, I’ve realized that maybe I do have a *friend* undeserving of me. I’ve probably unconsciously over-looked that possiblility, as I like to see the good in people, and not judge them for false crimes which they seemingly cannot (but they can) commit. Friendship and kindness can make one turn a blind eye to others’ sometimes. Although it’s a good thing to be kind, but just not to the point of naivety, which I am mostly certainly guilty of. ^^;
I will heed your advice, and cut my dead anchor loose. If not it being a block in my road to success, then for it not being a faithful, and honest anchor.
Once again thank you both for the words of wisdom, and I wish you the best, as I will certainly try mine to correct this situation.
~Always, Yaz
Yaz and Jocelyn…
*Blush*!!!!!!!!! I was just shooting from the hip. Thank you for your kind words! Lots of love and luck to both of you!
Faithfully, Phoenix
Thank you for your article, Jocelyn. I have been dating my Chinese American boyfriend for two years now, and we plan to be engaged within the year. I still haven’t met many members of his family, particularly his grand parents, but this article makes me feel better about meeting them. He’s warned me that I may not ever gain the approval of the oldest members of his family, but they’ll always be polite. His family immigrated from China about 30 years ago, so they are very traditional. At first, his mother didn’t like the idea of her eldest son dating a Caucasian girl, but she has really opened up to me and given me a chance. I do hope to earn the affection of his grand parents some day, but I suppose we all need to start somewhere.
Next semester, I am going to start learning Chinese through a Mandarin course offered in my university. I am hoping that learning his family’s language will help matters and will enable me to speak for myself when we travel to Hong Kong.
Thanks for your comment, Turtle, and for sharing! I’m glad my article helped you prepare for meeting your boyfriend’s family. That is fantastic you’re learning Chinese — this will definitely help build bridges with the family. As I found, once my husband’s, then boyfriend’s, parents (particularly his father) found I could speak good Mandarin, they opened up a lot more, and were willing to accept the idea of a foreign daughter-in-law.
Hope you’ll keep me posted on how things go. Good luck! 🙂
I suppose there are several older posts from before I started reading your blog. I stumbled upon this one today and I can’t stop looking at the picture. Your dress is absolutely beautiful and unique. Is it from here or from China? It’s gorgeous!
Thanks for the comment, Melissa.
Hope this is not too off-topic for the folks subscribed to the comments on this post…but the dress is from China. I had it tailor-made in Suzhou (they have a “wedding dress city” — endless possibilities, unbelievably affordable). If you, and others, are interested, I may just have to do a little review about this place.
Hi Jocelyn!
Actually, do tell… Smile! I’m definitely interested!
Later, Phoenix
I am a white redheaded woman married to a Chinese man (9 years next week!). We live outside of Chicago with our three beautiful half chinese daughters. I understand your perspective of “standing out” so much in China. With my very white skin and red hair, I really stood out. Plus, both times we have visited China we took our eldest daughter and that created even more stares. People couldn’t believe there was a Chinese man married to a white woman with a half chinese daughter. We had people ask if they could get their picture taken with us, my husband told them no, he didn’t want us to be a freak show. (I joked that if we made people pay for the pictures with us that we could pay for another trip to China.) But mostly people smiled or tried to touch our daughter, whom they thought was so pretty with such white skin. I love China and would move there in an instant, but getting used to all the “attention” does take a while. Even here in the Chicago Chinatown we are stared at a lot by the resident Chinese. We see a lot of Chinese woman/white man matches, but very few like us. It is nice to meet someone who understands my situation.
Dear Sarah,
It’s so great to hear from you — and welcome to what’s turning out to be not necessarily the “lonely club” I thought it was! You sounds like an outstanding couple, and how wonderful to have three lovely daughters.
(BTW, as an aside, Lao Sichuan in the Chinatown is still one of my favorite Chinese restaurants in the US.)
I was once married to a white woman. I agree with most of what you said. It is rarly. Have you seen a video on youtube ” yellow fever”, i think it is very true, even ABC get the same problem. Or you can look through a website called http://www.asiancaucasianturf.com.
Hi Hata,
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts — and for sharing that website. It’s great to see that communities are starting form for people like us.
It’s so nice to finally find this blog. I’ve been in China almost 4 years, struggling with so many of these same problems. One I dated my first Chinese boyfriend it was like the whole world changed. And yeah, he left me because I “made too much”
I’m still having problems, even tho these days I can manage the language pretty well, I’ve adapted to many customs, and I’m not the type who wants to party and play, I want the marriage and the kids!
Why is it still so hard to find someone?
Dear Brandy…
Please do not be discouraged… Smile!
My instincts suggest that your dilemma has less to do with cultural norms and more along the line of gender issues and modern economic circumstances. Please let me explain…
Once upon a time a very big war happened. Men left behind a society and culture that, until that time, was geared entirely toward them being in charge of everything but child rearing and domestic chores. With hubby abroad, many women discovered that they did a much better job of fending for themselves than their husbands had for both of them, and, now you have the phenomenally high divorce rate that ensued after said war was over. Flash forward to the last ten years unto present and you can see that single income households are impossible to support, unless you really are rich. Most of us are not.
My point is, women are sort of in a “double-damned” situation. Smart men know that they need a woman who can pitch in a paycheck… BUT… Many men (And women!) want to cling to a double standard. Men are still taught that their “worth” is in their ability to be a good provider, and still others feel their job and/or paychecks are their identity or means to power and control, if only over their own lives. Many people have shamelessly admitted to me that they want a mate who is both a provider and a domestic while they are only a provider or only a domestic. It’s offensive and irrational thinking in my book, but there you are. The bottom line… If you are a woman bread-winner, and worse, you have the confidence to assert your competence, or, you want to enforce a double standard… Don’t expect the guys to climb over each other in their efforts to ask you out.
In counterpoint, if like me, you were reared in an always chaotic environment where the only thing you could depend on was that people and rules are arbitrary, it’s likely you overcompensated and became a “Jill-of-all-trades”. I was amazed to discover how often this happens, and it essential does because the only person one could trust to finish something correctly and in a timely fashion, was themselves.
The only thing that will literally save your soul and sanity is to NEVER allow yourself to become bitter, or to quit. This is a problem that can be solved. Not easily, but it can…
First, sit down and look at yourself as if you and your life were a business operation. Who would you put in charge of what? Being able to delegate responsibilities is the first and most powerful investment of trust, and let me tell you, trust is nine-tenths of love’s ingredient list. Be brutally honest with yourself, and not just with the criticism, but with realizing what your real strengths and priorities are. If you did your homework correctly, you just found the basic outline for what man would be most compatible with you and your lifestyle, because like the interlacing finger of your two hands, his purpose is to be strong where you are weak, and to be humble in the areas where you are strong.
You may discover that you need a “house husband”, or, you need to find that rarest of fellas who can actually one-up you. In either case, and in all cases in-between, let me paraphrase what I said in an earlier post… “We are together to make each others lives just a little bit better, happier, more productive, just a little more often than our lives were before we met.” That’s the most basic essential for ALL relationships.
In closing, my experience suggests that Chinese men are actually a little more sensible than most about women being bread winners, but no man is immune to the equally sensible fear that a (insecure) woman in power often is a “ball-buster”. Tough enough to get past that stereotype, but you are not the only one who needs consistency and trust in a mate. Once he is shown where he belongs in your life, let him stay in charge of those arenas, no matter how bad the disagreement gets, and don’t try to renegotiate or go behind his back. Both of you will always make a few mistakes, but I can promise you, if you are ALWAYS loving and consistent, love will win over any doubt or anger. That’s not an euphemism, it’s a proven fact in all healthy relationships.
You deserve to be loved Brandy, and you couldn’t pick a more devoted, dependable, and affectionate mate than a Chinese man… But like most of the ladies here, I’m a bit biased! (Laughing!) I wish you abundant luck and love. I know you will find it…
Sincerely, Phoenix Dawnsinger
I do not know about anyone else. Many children of Asian-white couples including Chinese men-White women couples tend to be super-smart and high achievers.
Dear Brandy, thanks for the comment, and welcome to our not-so-lonely club! 😉 I’m sorry to hear your first didn’t work out. Mine didn’t either. And neither did my second. It wasn’t until my third Chinese boyfriend (John), that things really worked out. So, it may take some time, but you can find him. Don’t give up, because you sound like a wonderful girl, and you deserve to find true love.
It really does take an unconventional Chinese guy to get over issues like money (and, in the case of my husband, the fact that his wife is taller than him!). Some men never can get over it, and that is too bad. But the ones that don’t care, the ones that can look beyond all of that…they are gold.
I wish I could give you an answer on why it is hard, beyond what I’ve written in this post. I don’t know what you have experienced, but I can imagine how it has made you feel. I’ve been there.
You might find some inspiration from a recent article I wrote, with some suggestions for meeting Chinese men.
There are some great Chinese men out there who would love to have you as their own. Please hang in there, and don’t lose hope.
Dear Phoenix, as always, you provide such eloquent answers that I have nothing more to add. You astound me. Thanks for giving Brandy some advice.
Dear George, thanks for the comment.
I am not that tall 5 feet 10, but I like tall girls. I want my GF to be 5 feet 8 🙂
I got over it 🙂
If people look back to the 21st century, they will see it is very rich cultural period when the East and West are harmonized and synthesized. One of so far untapped cultural springs is evolved from the interactions between the Chinese man and Western woman. Opposites attract. As China regains its confidence and make a greater contribution to the world, you will see the Chinese man will not be shy to bring what is in him to the table. The first wave of the Western women interested in that will be pleasantly surprised by the new findings. I am a Chinese, educated in Chinese culture, living in America, dated almost all white women, and married to one. I was determined to bring out what is in my pocket to the table to exchange with what the white women will bring to the table. Life had been very rich indeed.
Dear timur,
Thanks so much for your thoughtful comment. When I hear from you and many others, it gives me hope that there will be more couples like us — and that, someday, we won’t have to talk about the “rarity” anymore. 😉
(first off i’d like to let you know your captcha on the contact form is not working. i wanted to send this via email to you)
Hi Jocelyn
i noticed you had a link on your site somewhere to our site womenforasianmen.com.
i’ve only been made aware by this recently by a back links search on google, but i dont see it anymore, but i wanted to tell you shoot a thank you to you. i absolutely adore your blog (and you!). your perspective on interracial relationships (especially concerning asian male/white female) is..well awesome ^_^
i’d like to extend a warm invitation to our site.
Hi — thanks for letting me know about the problem with the Captcha form. I replaced my contact form, tested it, and you should have no problem using it to contact me now.
And I’m really glad you like my site. Thanks for the warm invitation.
I’ve been editing my links recently, so check — it should be there now (under Foreign Women + Chinese Men).
I have recently started talking to a Chinese male and noticed that my fellow American friends (or people who I thought were friends) are extremely opposed to the idea of an American female dating a Chinese male. Some of the things people have said are downright hateful and, if I may say, ignorant. I did not realize my generation was still so overwhelmingly opposed to interracial dating (I’m 25). Why are people so opposed to Western women dating Chinese men? Do our Chinese classmates/friends feel the same way about him dating me?
While, I’ve never dated a Chinese guy before, it has nothing to do with being Chinese. Culture and ethnicity are not factors that influence my decision to date someone. In fact, I’ve been enjoying learning about his culture and getting to know each other. I also enjoy that he’s more traditional and takes his time with the courting process. He is thoughtful, respectful, smart, intuitive, I can go on forever…. My grandfather even commented on how this is the “proper” way to date someone. He’s fine with me dating a Chinese male as long as his family accepts me.
Why are other people so openly opposed to Western females dating Chinese males? There seems to be an extra sense of hostility towards this mixture, as opposed to other interracial dating. Did those of you married/dating an American/Chinese experience this issue? If so, how did you overcome this obstacle?
Dear Concerned,
Thanks for the comment — and you bring some good questions to the table, here. I think most of us in relationships like ours will experience the unfortunate flip side (the ignorance, hate, stereotypes).
Why opposed? The short answer — we have culture to blame, because we live in a culture that has decided it is not a normal relationship (which may be a colonial hangover from centuries of having an “Asian mystique” that seems to favor Chinese women, not Chinese men). We don’t see people like us in mainstream movies or TV, as I wrote in this entry. It’s not just the men, either — often women buy into, and perpetrate these ideas (like this post).
For some Chinese, there is a flip stereotype of Western women that often bars relationships — that we’re easy seductresses (and not good for marriage), which I also write about above. In the case of Chinese parents, who imagine the stereotypes from movies/tv/ads in China, it certainly can be an opposition; for others, it’s a curiosity (as in, how could these two come together?).
I’ve been lucky not to have experienced the hostility — but I will say, I have seen other people hostile towards my Chinese husband, in subtle, microaggressive ways. I think many decide, because of his stature, gentle voice, etc., that he either doesn’t merit attention or respect. I’ve seen some in his university (students and faculty) behave or speak to him in ways I thought demonstrated a lack of confidence or understanding, when I know he doesn’t merit that.
But I’d be interested to hear from others, how they overcame the obstacles.
Having lived in the east during the past decade, I also know of many white expat American women in places such as Singapore who wont date white expat men who have dated local Asian or even Asian American women. To them these men are damaged goods. If your date is from mainland China, it is very difficult to decipher..the relationship between the US and China have not been at its best. However, if your date is from Taiwan, Hong Kong, Malaysia or Singapore and definitely if he is Chinese American, the answer is very clear…racism and bigotry!
Hi George,
That is an unfortunate case of ignorance and it does reflect a point of racism and bigotry if those attitudes extend to other people who just “look similar”. It is very degrading to what it means to be human. Actually, those expat women you mentioned are probably not worth the trouble of starting a relationship with in the first place if their mentality is like that.
“That is an unfortunate case of ignorance and it does reflect a point of racism and bigotry if those attitudes extend to other people who just “look similarâ€.”
Your point is well taken. eg. there are a lot of Irish people who wont date or marry other white people or white Americans of English origin, ie., English and there are a lot of Serbians who wont date other whites, eg. Croations, Macedonians or Slovenians. But, most of it is due to history. Race related prejudice is born of contempt and colonialism rather than historical hatreds. People looking down on a white woman marrying someone of Chinese origin is born of contempt and derision rather than historical hatreds between whites and Chinese. In fact, I know a white male married to a Chinese American woman who is dead against his sister dating a Chinese American male…this case sound like one of irrationality.
@Friend, thanks for commenting. I agree — the expat women George mentions aren’t worth the time.
@George, thanks for weighing in on this issue. You voiced something that has long been nagging me — that there is some leftover colonialism at work here in why people might be so against Chinese men and Western women becoming couples. I’m intrigued and might just have to look into this further.
This is because in America, the media is controlled by White MEN, who will only promote AF/WM relationship, but Not AM/WF. It is clear that it is RACIST, but Asian men are not in control and thus have to suffer if they want to live in America.
In America, people will not be concerned if AF date White guys but if WF start to date Asian guys, then you will see tons of stereotypes and racism toward them. Sad but true.
“It is clear that it is RACIST, but Asian men are not in control and thus have to suffer if they want to live in America.”
Asian men are not in control in America but they control America from outside the country..they hold the US debt, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese, Hong Kongers and Singaporeans. But, the fact is they rarely use the power.
“In America, people will not be concerned if AF date White guys but if WF start to date Asian guys, then you will see tons of stereotypes and racism toward them. Sad but true.”
The only problem is that many abroad, particularly in Singapore do not believe that this is true!
http://www.expatsingapore.com/forum/index.php?topic=59638.msg1535564
Kindly read the last few posts! And the guy who pointed this out is branded a racist!
“You voiced something that has long been nagging me — that there is some leftover colonialism at work here in why people might be so against Chinese men and Western women becoming couples. I’m intrigued and might just have to look into this further.”
People need to get their current events right. Saw an interesting movie from India. The moneylender comes into the indebted guy’s home, grabs his daughter and basically says, all debt is forgiven because I am going to marry your daughter. Colonial times are long past. Today China controls the US economy through its treasury holdings. The Chinese are the moneylenders here…may be they should walk in and say that “many of “our men”, professional men in particular dont have wives due to the gender imbalance. You send us brides to marry Chinese men, and we ill forgive your debt.”
On a happier note, two Chinese men-white women couples married for nearly thirty years with smart successful kids…all of them daughters….
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/race/2008/06/interracial-mar.html
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=82eef069-9da1-4953-943a-a51c6613d0aa
@Slipknot, thanks for having your say in the conversation! I would definitely agree that many Asian men do suffer in the US — I have experienced this through my husband.
@George, thanks for sharing your thoughts once again, and giving us the perspective from Singapore. You put forth some interesting ideas! I enjoyed the links — they are a heartening reminder that families like ours can and do work (nice too to see they have daughters!).
I, too, found the love of my life in a Chinese man. He and his family have been in the states for 15 years and I’m blessed to have him in my life. We’ve been married for 6 months now and I look forward to many more years of happiness. My only concern is with his family. He still has not introduced us and they don’t even know he’s married. When I question him about the secrecy, he just tells me that, as a white woman, I will not be accepted into the family and he’s trying to save me the heartache of how his family, particularly his mother, will mistreat me. I don’t know how long he can keep this marriage a secret and I fear that the longer he waits to tell them, the harder the news will be for them to understand. Pray that things will work out well for us.
Dear Sarah,
Thanks so much for sharing with us. How wonderful that you found true love with a Chinese man! But what a shame that you cannot share the happiness with his family. I also hope that, with time, they will learn to love and accept you as a member of their family.
i was surprised about this website.thought i was the only one with this problem.and a little bit more.well iam i think. I am western women 56 and fell head over heels in love with my brothers driver 43 .there was electricity between us .we did not talk to each other.after 3 months i came back and those feelings were still there.and now we talked and he acknowledged the same experience.said he loved me but no good could come of it.he let himself fired as the driver and told me he did not really know why he did.the only thing he did know was that it was totally impossible culture money,education,age!!!!!!!wise.since august silence .what should i do.go back to shanghai in may.
Dear yetti, thanks for sharing your experience.
That is heartbreaking, and I can relate, having fallen in love with Chinese men who later gave up on us. Some Chinese take a very practical approach to love and marriage, preferring to find someone normal they can have a peaceful life with, instead of marrying someone they are passionately in love with (but may create difficulties for them b/c of family or otherwise).
I don’t know if this is the case with this man. Maybe you can try talking to this man again — maybe you can go to Shanghai, and he might still love you and be open. But you might want to contact him before you do anything rash. If he continues to rebuff you or discourage you, it may not bode well for your relationship.
There may be some culture or man/woman differences. To an American woman, love is the most important. After you take layers off in the Chinese culture, heart is very important. Traditionally, a good heart is what he is aspired to, which makes him more stable, not necessarily romantic at times, unless he is driven by his hormones. So it takes longer time to reach the heart of a Chinese man, who is in general guided by his rationality, practicality, and the distrust of intuition. This has helped him to be dependable and surviving in hard times. So the middle way approach may be the answer. Make the Chinese more intuitive and make the American woman more stable.
Thanks for the comment, timur. What you wrote — “it takes longer time to reach the heart of a Chinese man” — is so true from my experience. Chinese men can be more rational, practical than what we’re used to, so patience (on the part of Western women) really is important in forming relationships.
I have been married to my Chinese husband in Bay Area for more than 20 years. I am a San Francisco born Irish-German, and he came to country first as a foreign student. I am 5’8″ and he is 5’6″, we have our ups and downs, but I love him more than ever. To marry to a Chinese guy, actually is like marrying to his whole family (true in most marriages). My husband is smart and hard working, and a very good lover.. it is simply not true that the media portray Asian men as “small”, as my white ex-husband 6’3″ who is a control freak is not even half as good as what my Chinese husband can offer. If you are going for Chinese men, you got to be mindful that most Chinese men are very practical, thrifty and hard working people. Chinese men as a whole prefer practical, thrifty and intelligent women. That is why most Chinese M /White F dating happens mostly in schools or higher learning institutes, very few Chinese men just go out and pick up any white women for casual relationship. Chinese men in general are more sensitive, introvert and intricate in their thinking and planning, they don’t just “go for it” like most Western men, as Chinese men take failures very seriously. Moreover, they are more reliable, respectful and loyal as a husband if they love you, they do protect their family (similar to Italians)… Also, one thing very seldom mentioned (which is the most important thing) in Chinese M/ White F relationship is – the way they look at money. The main reason most Chinese men do not go for White women, is that most Chinese men take dating very seriously, they are always thinking long term.. in their mind they think most Western women are not good with money but they are good lovers, (their thinking is very similar to the Jewish Men), also the Western women can turn on a dime in love and want out, and the financial ruins will follow.. Being in business with my husband, I get to know that there are so many wealthy Chinese men (men controls the family wealth in Asian culture) here and from Hong Kong, Taiwan, China and whole SE Asia, and there are probably more Chinese multi-millionaires than the millionaire white male in this planet. But very few well-to-do Chinese men are willing to marry a white women for the reason I mentioned above, and I hope this is gradually changing. That is also why you see so many Asia F/ White M marriage, because it is easier for Asian F to marry White M for safety or monetary reasons (most immigrant women) or love (in higher learning institutes or workplace).. but Asian men do think entirely different when it comes to dating or marriage…
Dear Sheryl,
Thank you so much for the comment, and for your insight into why couples like us are so rare. I never thought about the money issue — that’s an interesting explanation. I absolutely agree that practicality about marriage is a big issue for many Chinese men, and long-term thinking would certainly question the idea of pairing w/ a Western woman, given the stereotypes you mention.
Wow Sheryl… you have it right. My husband is also very practical and frugal. When we do have disagreements, they are often about money because I am a spender and he is a saver. However despite the fact I spend, I do so reasonably. I remember him telling me when we were dating that he liked the fact I didn’t have to wear designer clothing and shoes. I didn’t think much about that at the time, but since he was planning for a long-term relationship, evidently earlier than I, things like that were very important. Despite him being cheap, I wouldn’t trade him for all the gold in the world. His love and genuine caring for me make material things seem so unimportant in the long run.
Reading these comments, I almost forgot if you guys are talking about chinese men or a breed of show dog ( The Pit Bull terrier…”ahem”..chinese man has an ideal temperament, is friendly towards family, friends, and strangers alike. Known for its sound character, strong nerve, and great intelligence….)
I say this in jest of course. I agree with all the complaints/compliments posted here more or less. As a weird semi 2nd generation chinese born canadian/german/america, I have actually thought about why it is that there are so few chinese guys with other race girls and come to the conclusion that I came up with is it really comes down to chinese men themselves and how resilient they are. I think most people don’t realize the trauma that immigrating to a new land with strange peoples causes. Any social value/social hierarchy, they’ve built up in China is instantly gone. They are automatically demoted to the bottom of the ladder, and left for 2-3 years without any means to climbing at all ie language.
It is sort of a pet theory of mine that initial attraction/teenage type relationships are partly based on social value. So this plus all the media conditioning, racism, fear of family taboo is probably why there is a big barrier to Chinese men having the confidence to ask out a girl. Even when a girl is sending very very obvious “I like you signals”, they might be afraid to interpret those signals (it still hurts every-time I remember one)
It probably led to much missed happiness and not a small contributor to some Chinese men being angry at Chinese girls for being successfully intermingled with LaoWai.
After that mountain of possibly insensible rambling, I like to suggest things girls could have done when they approached me when I was younger. (though in hindsight totally not their responsibility to woo me)
1) go slow, if you are interested, form a acquaintanceship first. Things like work, class or some regular activity is best, where everyone shows up anyways and there’s no pressure.
2) Once you feel he’s pretty comfortable, ask the question explicitly. no confusion.
3) be willing to be the suitor at this first stage but you should expect him to step up eventually for a equal relationship to happen.
For Yasmin, take it from me, there are plenty of chinese guys who find African women attractive (my first kiss was with a black girl named Camilla in middle school in Raleigh)
@Sarah, thanks for sharing your experience! It’s always great to hear from other women with Chinese husbands.
@Justin Liu, thanks for the comment, and for offering your own advice on what Western Women can do to make a relationship with a Chinese man. Glad to hear that there are plenty of Chinese men who would consider dating an African woman!
When you mentioned literature, you left out one book with Asian male white female couple: Han Suyin’s ‘Till Morning Comes. Lovely picture by the way 🙂 and your husband looks cute.
Sveta, thanks so much for the sweet comment, and for suggesting another good read with an asian man and white woman! I will definitely have to pick it up. 🙂
Dear Jocelyn:
What a great blog you have! I’ve enjoyed exploring it. I’m an American woman, married to a Russian man, and much of what you write about the rarity of this “foreign woman + local man” is true for my little band of sisters, clutching to a raft amidst a sea of “foreign men + local girls.” I think ours is a much bolder choice, with much more responsibility attached to it. We walk a much narrower tightrope. I’m working on a book about the funnier side of this set up, but there is a serious tome we all get a kick out of called “Wedded Strangers.” I look forward to reading more from you!
Dear Jennifer,
Thanks for the comment — I didn’t realize there was such a rarity in Russia as well. How fascinating. I like the way you put it — “a much bolder choice…We walk a much narrower tightrope.”
That’s great you’re working on a book. I look forward to reading what you have to say about it, as I can tell, from your website, that you’re a talented writer.
“chinese man has an ideal temperament, is friendly towards family, friends, and strangers alike. Known for its sound character, strong nerve, and great intelligence”
I lol’ed at this one.
To all those women who got abandoned, or whom their partner is ‘afraid’ to stand up to their families, I’m sorry. I’m sorry those guys don’t realise how special you are and that the connection you have is rare. It is things like this that partly explain why so few asian guys marry out.
Geez guys, grow a backbone!
I am also an American woman married to a Chinese man .. and living in China… however, it is even harder for me.. because.. I am African American…. yeah… I have to fight the sterotypes that we are loud, wild, and criminals… the tv protrays us in the most horrible ways… But I am lucky that my husband ignores those things.. and takes me for who I am .. not what the media says I am…. As for the pointing and stares that you got when holding hands with your husband… I too get those.. .. constantly… even after living in the same small town for more than a year… i still get it. I am also lucky that my husbands parents accept me… their only fear is that I will take him away to American and not bring him back…. to take care of them… I think your website is great.. and i will keep it linked to mine. http://www.lifebehindthewall.wordpress.com
thanks for letting everyone know.. that Chinese men can be loving, romantic and awesome lovers. (smile)
.-= Jo´s last blog ..DNS Editing Deployed =-.
Hi Jo,
Thanks for sharing your experience! Clearly you’ve had to overcome even more hurdles than many of us, and that’s fantastic that you’ve found a loving husband and a family that accepts you for who you are. You are truly blessed for that.
I totally agree — they can absolutely be loving, romantic and awesome lovers! 🙂
I do believe the Chinese are a little deeper, and tend not just looking at things from the surface. So while there are misconceptions but they can be easier overcome, depending how you conduct yourself, better than the West. I may be wrong, like other opinions on this.
Thanks for the comment, Timur! 🙂
Jocely, this post is becoming like its own discussion forum 😉
I wouldn’t presume to be talking for more than me, but in my relationship, it’s also me who is concerned and careful about the money, and my girlfriend who is not overdoing it, but enjoys shopping, getting nice things, and so on. – It’s Western me and Chinese her, however… So, it’s either that my thinking is somehow Chinese, she is somehow Western – or that there may be some point(s) we are still missing when we look for the single main reason.
Not that I think that the points being raised were wrong, but “the devil is in the details,” especially in relationships: a Chinese man looking for a thrifty partner might also like a Western woman who has an entrepreneurial spirit and wants to make her own money. It would/could mean that she’d aim to contribute to their combined (financial) stability… but other factors such as the (whether perceived or real) cavalier attitude of Western women towards relationships, and family disapproval easily interfere.
To be honest, I sometimes wonder if we aren’t simply missing that women, it seems, are more open to going where their hearts and minds lead them, regardless of ethnic background, whereas men are adventurous only when it comes to the short-term…
Thanks for the comment, Gerald — as always, you bring up points many of us never considered. Your example reminds me of my husband and I. I would say I am the one who tends to be careful about money (probably also b/c I’m the one who handles the finances) — and, while my husband is no spendthrift or careless spender, he does encourage me to “lighten up” and splurge occasionally on things I wouldn’t buy (but usually, in his view, need). Sometimes, I think it’s his way of showing his love for me.
While I cannot say for sure if it’s women who follow their hearts and minds, and men who are only adventurous in the short-term, you’ve got me thinking and wondering some more. And I like that. 😉
Dear Jocelyn I kinda found myself in some of the things you mentioned up in there. I live in slovakia & I have a chinese boyfriend who lives in London since 14 years when his parents moved there. Hes now 25 and I’m 20. We met over internet almost 2 years ago and since 1 year we’re dating ( he flies over every month and we have a great time even if its always kinda short). Right now sadly, our relationship is at the verge of break up. As you mentioned, in China everything is a ‘family affair’, relationships included. I can’t tell you if his mom would accept me or not, cause all this year he never told them about our relationship. He mentioned that his parents probably wouldn’t be pleased that hes dating an european girl and even less cause it would maybe require him to move since I’m from slovakia. I think for me this is the last relationship with an asian man. As I already dated two vietnamese guys living here in slovakia and both their parents thought their sons would be better off with an asian girl. I think apart from all the how TV portrays asian men, their own family could be the biggest obstacle which you cannot overcome.
hi Jocelyn,
it’s fun to read your blog and i like the way you put things. quite a few good points you mentioned but it still comes a bit shocking when it comes to things like ”getting family approval” stuff. i’ve never realised this would be of a problem and now it seems like a huge problem. and to be perfectly honest i think you’re adorable as you came forward, speaking up for yourself in front of your husband’s parents and making them accept you. that was very brave and it turned out that everything you did was valid. heck i couldn’t even picture myself standing in front of the parents.
appreciate your piece of work, a real enlighten-up to me and fingers’ crossed that i’ll get what i want as i’m gonna go impress my girl’s parents now:-)
Wang
@Monika, thanks for the comment! You do touch on the problem of family, on the Chinese man’s side. I think all of us experience it to a degree, but it is a tragedy when that suddenly becomes the deal breaker.
@Wang, thanks and glad you enjoy the blog! You know, I wouldn’t say I came out and “made them” accept me — but my language ability, and maybe my personality (I’m actually a pretty shy girl who likes to have harmony when I’m around others) did make a difference. Plus, I shared these photos with them, and it seemed to open up a conversation where they (well, at least my future father-in-law) got to know me. If you’re interested in how it happened, read this post.
Good luck with your girlfriend’s parents!
Hi Jocelyn,
This is Sylvia from CFL, I think this story is great! I really like the direction your blog is taking now. For me, my husband is the only Chinese guy I ever dated. We met in China, but he had just returned from the US when we met. Oh- and I’m pregnant!!! I also totally agree with the article about the de-masculization of the Asian man in the media. I’ll take it though, every day I say a prayer of thanks that my husband doesn’t watch football!
I hope you and Jun are doing well!
Sylvia
The lack of Asian-male-Western-female couples is all due to the guys: they just don’t ask western female out. Their first choice is almost always Asian women. Those that didn’t get asked by Asian men get it on with white guys instead. That’s why you see so many white guys with less attractive Asian women. The more attractive ones have been all taken by Asian men. Don’t worry about there being more WM/AF couples than AM/WF ones. THOSE HIGHER UP IN THE FOOD CHAIN ARE ALWAYS FEWER IN NUMBERS, AREN’T THEY? You have these fugly white guys who probably get rejected by their OWN women, probably get shot down by women in all 7 continents before realizing less desirable Asian mail order brides are the only ones who accept their sorry ass. But with AM/WF couple, it is usually the more intrepid and successful AM who catches the eye of the WF who usually holds all men to the WM’s standard and STILL picks the AM, and who is liberal-minded enough to marry out. So with WM/AF, it’s usually rejectee versus rejectee. But with AM/WF, it’s usually a pair of WINNERS. Don’t worry about why they are fewer in numbers. They are SUPPOSED to fewer. There are always supposed to be fewer winners than losers, always.
(Continued from last post)
And do you why white guys have to go to Asia and/or get mail order brides in the first place? Because 200,000 of Asian guys in American took their women, that’s why. Assimilated Asian men have a much easier time finding white women than 1st generation Asian men. According to http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2005/11/24/interracial-marriages-decrease-among-asian-americans/ , FOURTY-ONE PERCENT of them married out, and that was after a DECLINE in percentage as the article pointed out. You add another 300,000 black guys married white women, no surprise those less desirable second and third-rate white guys have no choice but to leave the country (typical white flight). It’s no doubt to me who is the real loser in this scenario.
@Sylvia, thanks for the comment! How cool you found me from CFL (that site brings back a lot of memories). While I’d like Chinese men to be portrayed as real men in the media, I am with you there on appreciating that mine doesn’t over-obsess about sports (unless it’s anything soccer-related…or NBA related. No wait, maybe my husband does obsess after all. Shoot!). 😉
@Sun Tse, thanks for the comments. It is true that Asian men often will not ask Western women out (though I will say that some Western women simply consider Chinese men not dating material).
I’m a western woman married to a Chinese guy for the past 15 years. I met him when I came out here for work. But it’s funny, many people *assume* that he was studying or working overseas and brought me here.
My thoughts on the rarity is:
1) Racism, colonialims and the associated stereotypes as you mentioned
2) Until the past 20 or 30 years, it was rare for Western women to travel to China or HK or Taiwan on their own for work or pleasure. That’s how many of the western-men / Chinese women couples developed. That’s how I met my husband (I came to HK to work).
However, my other thought is that it isn’t all THAT rare. In my social circle there are just as many western women married to Chinese guys as vice-versa.
You wrote:
“There are hardly enough books depicting foreign women with Chinese boyfriends or husbands. Off the top of my head, I can think of Rachel DeWoskin’s Foreign Babes in Beijing: Behind the Scenes of a New China and Repeat After Me: A Novel, Nicole Mones’ Lost in Translation, and Pearl S. Buck’s East Wind: West Wind (Buck, Pearl S. Oriental Novels of Pearl S. Buck, 8th,).”
Recommended reading…
Han Sunyin’s depiction of her parent’s marriage in “The Cripppled Tree” (her mother was Belgian and her Dad was Hakka – they met in the early 20th century).
Shirley Wood’s “A Street in China” London: Joseph, 1958)- descsribing her life in Shanghai in the late 40s and 50s with her Chinese husband. They met when he was studying in No. America and they settled in China. I think she’s still alive and living in Kaifeng as a retired professor of English.
Elsie Tu and her husband, Andrew Tu, wrote a book about their love and life, “Shouting At The Mountain: A Hong Kong Story of Love and Commitment”
dear Jocelyn,
im a native chinese college student,im living in hangzhou,you konw,hangzhou is really the most beautiful city in china .
i konw my english maybe not very fine.and i just want to say hi…
it so happened that i met with ur comments on chinese social life when i was browsing the web today,my grammar is not good,
and,sincerely,i just want to say hi to you and many other foreign ladies.i back your choice of communicating with a chinese husband or friend,life is always full of chioces and surprises
again,just say hi to you and your friends,i alway dreaming of a colourful life like yours,Exotic love is so romantic.
thank u ,buybuy,time to my homework
Here in Southern California alot of Asian guys date and marry American women. Being a Chinese man orginally from HK, I personally can’t stand the old fashion racial prejudices Asian families have. Something that continues to keep us back in the world. Not quite but almost up there with foot binding. Luckily the old will die off and along with them their antiquated racist views.
Peace K2
Hi Jocelyn,
Great blog. Glad I found it. I think what you said is true. Men in Chinese culture are raised to take care of the family. Most expats make more money than local Chinese men, so it is not hard to imagine most Chinese men believe they can’t support foreign girls if they ever get married. This is a big issue for many Chinese men. I am Chinese American, so I am well aware of racial prejudice Asian American men face in the good old USA. Asian American men have few to no role models growing up here. Hollywood is horrible in portraying Asian men on the big screen. Asian men never get the leading role or play romantic roles. They usually get roles that make them look foreign, unsophisticated, unattractive etc. I think one of the reason for that is many white men in the USA lust after Asian women so their goal is to degrade Asian men as best as they can to minimize competition. For example, an Asian couple kissed last year on the show LOST on national TV. That was the first time EVER an Asian couple kissed on national TV. Can you believe that? I can assure you Asian couples kiss all the time. I know cause I been doing it since I was early teen. One of the biggest reasons I think there are less Asian men-foreign women couples is the fact that both believe the other is not interested. In Chinese tradition, parents and friends usually introduce young people for marriage. The concept of hitting on women is still relative new for many Asian men. On the other hand, foreign men growing up in the USA have no such issue because they grew up in the USA culture. Anyway, I think younger Asian American men are learning to date more western style. I am sure most men in China are learning too. My brother just got married to a white American girl this past weekend. He dated most non-Asian girls living in NYC. The only difference between him and other Asian guys is he actually goes out and ask non-Asian girls out. I also have dated number of non-Asian girls in the USA. Younger generation Asian men are dating out a lot more these days in CA. I think things are changing. With Chinese men getting more wealthier, things will change down the road.
Some Asian men just don’t fancy White women…Like physically.
It’s not their fault. Lots of people have a type that they strictly stick to, even if that is unfair, morally.
But White people marry Whites, Black people matty other Black people…So what’s the difference if Chinese guys choose to marry Chinese girls?
Race isn’t even a factor.
I have been married to my Chines husband for 3 years. It has been more difficult that I thought due to cultural differences but we are working it all out. It is very lonely for the western woman. I am the ONLY foreigner in my town of Boao on Hainan Island. That’s why I started an inn to bring English speakers into my world! You’ve got to be creative!
Hi BoaoInn,
Thanks for sharing your story. How cool that you ended up starting an inn in your town — that is very creative indeed! Best wishes to you and your husband, and I’ll be sure to look you up if I come to Hainan someday. 🙂
I’m from Russia & i’m married to a Chinese girl. We met in Dublin, Ireland, a few years ago. I was already firmly based in this country by then, she came here as a language student. We have two kids.
Before i met her, never remember myself being any interested in Asian female types. But i’ve always been open-minded as to most things. I remember, when we first started dating, i immediately noticed her innate genuine sincerity, a somehow deeper emotional side compared to what i’d been used to getting in most of my previous experiences with women. When she looked at me, into my eyes, i couldn’t get enough of that look. My wife possesses some qualities that i find indispensable, infinitely attractive to me. When we started dating, it felt like i was instantly ‘not single any more’. And i would say so to anyone asking. Now we’re married & i’m willing to permanently relocate to China. Been there on holiday a couple of times, met her parents. I’m learning Chinese. Already can speak it not too badly, just the writing thing sometimes gets me by the nerve. Coz they don’t have an alphabet there…
Thanks for the comment, mk — I always enjoy reading the stories of other cross-cultural couples. 🙂
Hey girls,
I’m a Canadian born Chinese guy and I’ve grown up witnessing all the changes in the American media portrayal of Asian guys. Unforfunately the media is owned by a powerful group who keep spinning out the same movies, TV ads, and TV series and feeding it to the rest of the world to purposely perpetuate stereotypes. That’s why you don’t see Asian guys commonly with foreign girls especially in English-speaking countries (US, Canada, UK, Ausralia = worst). The English-speaking media use their power to make Asian guys subconsciously feel inferior.
A lot of white guys have a sick lust after Asian girls. That’s why in every Asian club, you always see the one or two lone white guys who pretend they’re interested in Asian culture and then go home and jack off to Asian porn. In every Asian church, every Asian club, I’ve always encountered some white guys but almost never any white girls. Don’t tell me only the males are interested in foreign cultures cuz I don’t believe a bit of that.
But having said that, I loved European girls and even French girls in Quebec (part of Canada) because they are a lot more open to dating Asian guys, and they aren’t as brainwashed by Hollywood. I am a pretty good-looking and chill guy, and had no problems dating European girls but get scowls from Canadian girls sometimes.
Hi Eddie,
Thanks for the comment — I read parts of it to my husband (notably your 2nd paragraph) and he just loved it. 🙂
I totally agree with you on the media, it truly makes a difference in how people view groups, such as Asian men and Chinese men.
You touch on the topic of western media or Hollywood portrayal of Asian male, but what about how western media portray caucasian girls or the western culture. Popular American films and TV such “Friends” or “Sex in the City” often portray caucasian girls as been very causal in their sex life and will often have various sexual partners at the same time. And in many show the female characters don’t seem to have a problem with it and often enjoy their sexual freedom. Portrayal like this don’t really shine a good light on western female when people from other country are viewing them through these popular media. To American this portray may represent a strong and independent modern female who has the power and freedom to do as they please. But to other cultures they are seen as loose and easy and don’t take relationship seriously which is why many Chinese men or their parents don’t want them to get a foreign girlfriend. If you watch Asian dramas or films the main female lead are often portray as having very little sexual experiences or any at all and the ones who sleeps around are portray as the bad girl or gold digger who is trying to steal the main lead’s husband.
You are very right Dan. Many of my Chinese friends dont want to date White girls, they only want Asian girls. This is the main reason!
Hello, I was googling “Chinese man foreign woman” and this post was between the first 3, my boyfriend and I met about 2 years ago on QQ, i guess you know what it is XD
I went to China for 2 months last May and June and we had the most wonderful 2 months of our lives together. I am trying to think of how to bring him to Portugal, but why is it so hard? Do we really need interviews, people going trough our stuff ? is this true?
We should be stopped or stared because we love a guy from another country… we are all the same! fine do Asians are hotter… ahaha jk
This is an interesting article. I agree with the media stereotypes part. It seeks to convince Asian men that white women aren’t attracted to them. You know, a lot of Asians have a different kind of self-esteem than non-Asians. The following holds true from -some- Asian families, not all, and maybe not even the majority.
Once again, the majority of Asian families MAY NOT BE LIKE THIS! But I know mine kind of was.
One or both parents can be very light on encouragement and praise, and very heavy on criticism and pressure. In some of the most hardcore Asian families, children have to “prove” themselves to their parents in certain respects, whereas in Western families, the love, praise, and affection may, more often, be unconditional.
I’m Korean, which traditionally shares a lot of culture with China, and my father has been very aloof, distant, and always critical. My mother is very warm, loving, but also critical in a very gentle way. So sometimes, for Asian guys to have the same kind of self-esteem a Western guy might have, it takes a lot of concerted effort on the Asian guy’s part. Now add to that a societal backdrop which subtly tells Asian guys they’re kind of second-class, and it just end up being a big test.
Despite this, lots of Asian guys wind up being confident in their later years. It just takes a longer time, when all that hard work and toil in school comes into fruition and translates into status.
It helps that I’m a tall, intelligent, well-spoken, and good-looking guy by any standard. I would imagine it would have taken several more years to achieve my current level of self-confidence (I’m in my mid 20s) if I were more of an average person. The upbringing takes its toll.
I plan on giving my children endless praise, support, and affection, although I may needle them in the loving way my mother did to me.
@Dan, thanks for the comment. Great point on the issue of Hollywood/media. And as Slipknot points out (thanks, Slipknot) it’s understandable that Chinese are weary of Western women.
@Kan, thanks for sharing some insight into Asian families. Sounds like your upbringing took a toll, but I’m glad you grew up into a confident man after all. That’s encouraging.
To mk:
The Russians and the Chinese are a lot closer. We look deeper inside the soul of a person and value that what is beyond the short term physical pleasure on the surface.
Hi Jocelyn, youre blog is so interesting..im a single european female & unfortunately its extremely difficult to meet single asian men.. i reside in the UK and most asian single meeting sites that advertise for dating, have western men looking for asian women. Ive searched on the internet for asian social clubs for western women but sadly find it impossible..its a pity that society makes it so easy for western men seeking asian women but almost impossible for western females to meet asian men…
Dear Jocelyn, you’ve done a good job. This website is so great. I am a Chinese male in Guangzhou.
Though I am a homo I do know the straight chinese men and women well. I think You have a very deep understanding of Chinese men.
Yes, I think many Chinese men do want to get dating with foreign girls but with many concerns. First is the body shapes. As average Chinese are shorter than foreigners especially white/black, it makes Chinese men uncomfortable or uncomfident if he meets a tall white/black girl. But this tradition seems to change a little as the Chinese youngsters are taller and taller(Do you agree with this observation? I always find myself frustrated within lots of tall high school students. I am 34yrs.)
Second is the way of communications. One of The reasons Why so many foreign male/Chinese girl couples is because Chinese girls speaking English to their foreign boyfriend/husband. The reverse is much rare. I find few foreigners in China can speak Chinese. But they can live and date Chinese girls just because the chinese parts provide convinience to them. It indicates that the Chinese girls with education(nowadays a common Chinese students can speak english basically) wants a white more than the white wants a Chinese girl. So the Chinese girl would show everything she can to please the white so that she can get the attraction. I don’t know whether it is polite to say this but it is the truth. Do you agree with me? However, the same may not easy to happen between w/b girl-Chinese man because both sides won’t try to please each other at the very beginning. I think most of the foreign girls expect Chinese men to speak in English when they meet no matter dating or common meeting, right? But on the Chinese side the man would be so appreciated, happy, surprised and thankful if a foreign girl speaking Chinese. However I don’t think it happens often. Certainly I just take it as an example of the different ways of communcations between wm/aw and am/ww. The very very soft and a little dependent character of Chinese girls help to establish relationship with white men. But foreign girls are more independent and insist more which is good character and which may be not an obstacle in their society, but which may be a very big obstacle in the interracial relationship especially with Chinese men at the very beginning.
I say ‘at the very beginning’ because Chinese men in fact appreciate such an independent character but they would just appreicate it LATER when they get deeper contact with you. At the very beginning they hope that the girls act soft, not that independent, don’t insist so much, a little fragile. But when you two proceed to the next process, like setting the love relationship, deep in love or getting married, he will respect you very much. However I don’t think many foreign girls know this fact cause it is very subtle. Some many insist their ways, some may just dislike the chinese ways.
Jocelyn, you have also written about other issues like finace\citizenship…. Real good words!
It’s very late now. My writing is a little 乱. I hope I can give everyone tips of how to find and date a good Chinese male in next post.
Wong you are half WRONG. Chinese men in the South such as (ShangHi, Cantoon, and Fujian are short like 5.7 or 5.8) But Chinese men in the North especially North East like( LiaNing, Dalian) are TALL like 6.1, 6.3.
MM, you are not looking in the right place. Why dont you go to Asian club and bar to meet them, I am sure there are loads of them. lol
@Slipknot
Glad to read your comments. Yes you are right partly. Historically the northern Chinese men are taller than the southern. But there are some facts you should not ignore. One, northern Chinese men are taller but just a bit taller than the south. It’s not as apparent as the height difference between Chinese and w/b. Besides, northern urban men like ppl of BeiJing, TianJin, Dalian, Harbin, Jinlin, TsingTao are taller and probably the tallest Chinese by average, but suburban men are not taller than the south. For example some misunderstanding exists that inner-mongolian men are taller than the south but actually they are not. Second, more important: as the improving living standard, the height difference between the north and south is gradually disappearing although it exists to some extend especially in older generation. You can just stand on a street and observe those young southern high school students, you’ll find that they are no shorter than the same north. Another good way to observe is to attend to a lecture in a class of a good and big university. Generally that kind of class consists of students from all over the countries. You’ll find no apparent height difference between the young north and south. Besides, the southern provinces like Guangdong, Shanghai or Fujian are much more national than most of the northern provinces, i.e. they contains more ppl from all over the countries. So in Southern provinces northern and southern ppl are mixed together. This trend has been lasting for 30 years and still no stop. But this is less occuring in northern China especially in north-eastern 3 provinces. For example, how many north-eastern ppl move to live and work in Guangdong, while how many Cantonese move to north-eastern to live and work? The fact is very apparent. Much much much more north-eastern ppl moving to guangdong than the opposite. While they stay in Guangdong for say 10 or 20 years, many of them especially their younger generations will become Cantonese to some extend. This also leverage the height difference between the north and south.
And, for foreign girls who want to find and date a good chinese man, I don’t suggest them going to clubs or parties. It may be good in western countries and in some Asian countries. But it’s not in China.
The best places to find good Chinese men are:
1.Play court: gym room, badminton, tennis, basketball… Find the hot bodies and minds there.
2.University: the real campuses and the BBS network. Single, young, well-educated and healthy students and teahcers waiting for you.
3.Company: Take a Mr.Right at work! This is the most rational way. A man working is the most reliable element of the society.
On the contrary, clubs and parties are still not the mainstream in Chinese society. Only a very small percentage Chinese would go clubs or parties that you have much lower probability to get a Mr.right.
I make a small mistake in the previous post. “I don’t suggest them going to clubs or parties” should be corrected as “I don’t suggest them going to clubs or bars”. Please replace all the “parties” by “bars” in that post. Forgive my English.
Yes I do suggest you take a chance in parties because parties always have topics.
But still, clubs and bars are no place to get a good chinese man especially if they are filled with men drinking, smoking, shouting and crying. Leave the bars and go to a gym rooms as soon as you can.
I live in GZ too. I’m a foreign lady. I speak Chinese.
Doesn’t seem to help my case. Men still seem to be intimated by me. I work in a large company where it’s more men than women…. yet…
I think most guys just can’t ever see “taking me home to mom” Never even consider me as wife potential. I go on dates, I play the “part” I’m this delightful mix of western and Chinese, and yet, serious relationships tend to allude me.
So I’ve guiltily fallen back into my bad habits of going on dates just for those guys who want “learn English” or “impress people by hanging out with me” Seems like that’s all I’m good for these days.
Its great to read your comments, i must admit i dont like clubs that much, just thought it was perhaps a great way to meet a nice asian man. Being in my late 30’s, friends also suggested ‘parties’ but its definetely nicer to meet a male in a different environment & not have drunk people all around yelling & shouting, …itd be wonderful to learn the language and share the culture with an asian man… its very interesting reading all your comments 🙂
@Wong..very interesting reading, thankyou 🙂
@MM
As I’ve said that I am a homo, I always stand by and see the straigt men and women calmly as the thrid party.
Jocelyn provides a very good suggestion in one post. That is getting to know and dating with a Chinese (no matter man or girl) via the help of a Chinese friend(How to call this kind of intermeidiate person in English?). In ancient China ppl got to marry each other not by their own wil but by the arrangement of their parents. How could the parents find the Mr.right or Miss.right? By the intermediate person. In those old days this was a formal job and that person risked her reputation if she introduced a bad marriage. Certainly in modern China marriage become more based on the individual will. But still many of the contact between boys and girls are relied on the introduction of the intermediate person. This is why those companies who introducces dating or marriage partners have market in China. But I don’t suggest you going to those companies because the their qualification are not uniform and it’s NOT free. If you have any Chinese friend, you can ask her to help you. I say ‘her’ because Chinese girls likes to help girls finding Mr.right and Chinese boys likes to help boys finding Miss.right(also a Chinese tradition). It’s not a bad thing but very very normal thing(even a good thing) asking friends to introduce a lover in China. Last week one of my badminton partner(a man), arranged a scenario which helps him dating a girl he loves. The girl is the classmates of his friend’s younger sister. So he asked his friend, his friend’s younger sister and younger brother, his friend’s brother in law, and THAT girl to play badminton together. Those ppl had done lots of work before so that the prince and princess could be together. A foreigner may lol at such a story. But it does happen everyday in China. It’s one of the very normal way of communications. I got to know my homo friend also by the introduction of an intermediate friend. China actually retains so many old traditions though some becomes implicit.
Straight Chinese men are like volcano. They always hide their lust and seldom reveal it.In Chinese we call it ‘闷骚’. I don’t think it’s a good character. But as I have the same character, I am not the right perosn to criticize them. LOL. Remember the number of males are 40 millions more than females. A man may have a success rate of 30%, but girls(no matter chinese or foreign), you may have 90% (just some casual guessing).
@White Orchid
Glad that you are in Guangzhou too.
In my eyes I dislike those guys who treat their white partners as BMW as if yelling to ppl ‘how capable I am that I got a white partner’. The Chinese girls also have the same problem. This is a very complicated psychological phenomena caused by some bad and wrong education in China. But it’s out of the scope here. Anyway the most important is that he does love her.
From your post we can know that you actually date with Chinese men but without their clear and serious promise. I think there may be many reasons. First might be the age. If your chinese partner is too young, say under 28, he may just want to play around at this age without the activation of marriage. Chinese ppl used to get married at a very early age like 15 or 16. But it has changed a lot nowadays especially in big cities and well-educated ppl. Second may be the finance. In China a house or an apartment is always considered as an indispensable element of a man by every one involving of marriage. This has postponed many men’s marriage ages.
But still the love and marriage issues depend very much on the individuals instead of the ethic groups. Did you ask him about going to see his parents?
Trust me, the Nothern Chinese especially the younger ones are at least 6.2.
Also, the North Eastern Chinese men have good fation and they are much more open minded to date White girls than Southern Chinese.
Southern Chinese are very stuck up and much more traditional than the Norther ones. Just visit and take a look yourself!
What an interesting blog! I was looking for an old short story I read years ago and came across this blog. I can’t remember the name of the story but it was about a chinese guy in British Columbia, Canada if I’m not mistaken and he marries two women; one a wild white woman, lol and the other a chinese woman. He hates the cooking of the first but loves it of the other. But he still feels the white woman is the better match. I wish I could find this story again.
As for me I am married to a Malaysian (malay) and formerly married to a Vietnamese. There was a guy before that though childhood crush who was Chinese… I even studied Chinese for him for 3 yrs but maybe he never realized that. His sister once remarked to me that chinese never let their blood get mixed. Was so depressing for me.
@Aishah, thanks for sharing the story — very intriguing. If you find it, please do share the link with us. That’s too bad you had that sad experience with a Chinese, but I’m glad that, in the end, you found your love. (interesting blog, too!)
@Gipsy75, thanks for stopping by! That’s so great you’re seeing more and more couples like us. I haven’t read much about Japanese, but I could certainly understand the reasoning for what you mention.
@Alex, thanks for the comment. Sounds like you’ve had quite an experience since coming to China! I think the fact that they’ve tried to move so fast on you suggests that some of them may believe that you, as a foreign woman, are “easy” (in the bedroom sense). I would definitely be very careful with any Chinese man who seems in a hurry to get physical (see my post on dishonest Chinese men for some insight).
I am Italian married to a Chinese guy for the last 6 years and been together for 12 years!! and we have a 2 1/2 years old boy. We live in the Uk and I see more and more WFAM around. Lots asian male here are financially ok so I guess this has been helping also in the dating scene. In Italy is an other story. Most of the chinese people work in restaurants or clothes industries and you get to know them only from the bad press so when I say my husband is Chinese I can see the wrinkles in people faces. I agree with the others that the media takes a huge part of shaping people opinion, immagination. Also socio-ecnomic factor play a role here, there are more white guys then white women going oversea to work in high power position.
I remember I read an article that said wester women would rather date a Japanese man then Chinese because Japan’s economy is better therefore the man is better educated, dress better and so on…
Hi there,
greetings from Qingdao. It’s the first time I’m in China (I’m from Germany) and after about three weeks I got curious on just how shy Chinese men are in fact. This is how I found your page.
You know… I kinda grew up with a half-Taiwanese girl, we were like always together (we’re still very good friends) and this is why I was taught a lot of Asian thinking by her mother, who is Chinese by birth but moved to Taiwan at young age. I’ve already been told several times by different Chinese people that I’m more like a highly educated, traditional Chinese girl than the typical European girl.
Sadly I don’t speak any Chinese.
Even though… I don’t know how many times Chinese man already tried to hit on me during the short time I’m here. My colleagues take me to different restaurants, clubs, festival ect. where I meet a lot of their friends and we always have a lot of fun, even though many of them don’t understand English and I don’t understand Chinese. And it happened more than once after evenings like that, that a Chinese guy wanted to take me somewhere else, some even tried to kiss me and I always had to ask my colleagues to… well let’s say: protect me……
Don’t get me wrong! I’m single and in Germany during the last year only one guy tried to make a move on me! And in China during three weeks it’s at least five! And no- I’m not cute and tiny, I don’t have long blond hair, and I’m not what one would call slim… more like a rather female body.
The Chinese guys I’ve met so far in Europe were all a little shy, just like most people here described it. But being in China my impression is completey different.
After reading the posts here I’m completely confused. Just what is wrong? Well, of course I’m flattered on one hand that I could have had so many chances to find a guy (I don’t care much about, if he’s Asian, European, American etc.), but on the other hand… it’s a little scary.
Jocelyn, maybe they just try to get to know her. I said before that Chinese men from North and especially North East are very aggressive unlike their Southern Chiense counter part. They are not shy at all, usually asserative.
Northh Easter Chiense men are just like ShangHi women when it comes to exotic Foreign women, they are aggressive. lol
This is true.
Hello Jocelyn and Slipknot
I know it’s been a long time, but I guess it was hard to announce the wedding is off between me and my Wanju Xiong. I’m finally back on track with my life and I’ll be relocating next year. Still love Asian men best so I’m on the prowl again, though it’s not easy to find available men in my age range, less so out in the Eastern U.S.
You know I always go to bat for you Slipknot, (hug!), but I have to say my experiences were different than yours… My Wanju was originally from Southern China, and I was courted for a short time by a Northern Chinese gent. My Wanju was extremely assertive, and not shy about anything, whereas my Northern date was so reticent getting him to tell me *anything* about himself or his wishes was like pulling teeth trough the ear canals. The only thing I found to be consistently ‘regional’ was that Northern Chinese tend to be taller and have a subtle diet that commonly includes a few critters not found in American menus. The further South I went, the shorter the overall population became, and the *spicier* the food was! Number one on my ‘bucket list’ is to travel The Pacific Rim and Mainland China on a “gastronomic” tour…Meaning, I am traveling to taste test the local cuisines. Husband requirement number one… He *MUST* be a great cook and take turns with me in the kitchen! (Smiling Brightly!)
Well, all that said, it’s good to be back and to see familiar names. I wish all of you all of the love and good fortune you need. Talk at you soon.
Dear Phoenix,
I’m so sorry to hear the wedding is off, so I can completely understand your reticence. It’s never easy to break news like that, but I’m glad to hear you’re still courageously moving forward.
Thanks for sharing your experience with the men, and reminding us that there are exceptions to every rule or generalization.
I wish you the best, and especially wish you will find your dream man soon. 🙂
Phoenix, When I mean South, I mean straight South like Fujian and Cantoon province. I am from South West the Provence of Sichuan. That is where all the spicy food is!
Also, men from Sichuan and ChongChing are just like the North and North East, they are assertive. Except we men from Sichuan are a lot shorter than the North especially the North Eastern ones.
I am only 5 feet 9 (176CM)
Hello Slipknot…
I understand what you are saying, and I agree… As for the food from your province, it is a pleasure I have indulged in before… *Sighing with happy memories!* Sichuan food is not only yummy, it’s an art form! Lots of heart-healthy dishes that are packed with color and flavor, and the preparation of the dishes only adds to that appeal. I do wish I could shamelessly drop in at your house around lunch time! (Smiling Brightly!) And just for the record… “short” is a relative term for me, as I am only 5 foot 3 inches…(Laughing!) True story.
As for “assertive” people often say that dogs and their owners are very similar, and in my case, it is quite true. I have a Chihuahua and poodle mix named “Sophie”. Sophie is tiny, has a big bark, and looks frazzled, but she has a heart and personality I look to for inspiration. You can go to my Facebook account, to see me and my puppy. I am listed under “asamoya fenikkusu”. I am linked to many Japanese anime fans and industry people because I help plan and operate conventions, including anime ones, but I would really like to link to more Chinese and Korean people too. Meaning no offense at all to anyone when I say that my particular personality is not well suited to Japanese culture, so I am forever walking on eggshells with them and I need to be able to be liked for being myself rather than just tolerated. This is an honest and humble case of, “It’s me, not them, that’s the problem”. I will assert this much, most of the Chinese people I have encountered overall tend to be refreshingly companionable, easy to talk to, and don’t differ much from most of my American friends. It’s nice to feel my shoulders relax and know that some random word or gesture is not going offend. Well, I wish everyone love and success. Talk at you soon I hope!
11pm… long day… my husband’s asleep on the couch next to me, still holding my hand & head resting on my thigh- just as he fell asleep a half hour ago. Not wanting to move/get up and disturb his rest, I reached for the laptop, and googled, “chinese husbands.”
I’m so in love with this man, because he’s so good, and strong (in character). He’s fun, and funny, and loving. He’s also very sexy! Sometimes I think, “He’s just a great human being… that’s what it is.” But over & over, there’s just something about him- culturally- that seems to make this great & meaningful difference.
Here I am, a country girl in Pennsylvania, USA… more often than not- spellbound, and deeply in love with my beautiful Chinese Husband!
@快乐的妻子, wow, what a great comment! This is the passion people never hear about, how fantastic Chinese men can really be. I’m with you there — my man is a “great human being” and I am in awe of him just about every day. 😉
Ladies, please help me. I constantly hear White men saying that White girls dont like Asian guys, I also personally feel that White girls in the United States are very rude toward Asian guys.
What is the problem??
I think it has to do with socialization. We, as a culture, have not yet been socialized, as a whole, into embracing relationships between White women and Asian men (and, even less so with regards to relationships between Black women and Asian men). Do you see couples like us on TV? In the movies? Not really.
Meanwhile, there are almost NO Asian men who are considered sex symbols by our society.
Instead, we have fed the stereotypes about Asian men being bony, uber nerds with zero sex appeal (which is patently NOT true). And then we live in a society where so many people are concerned about their social reputation, and then don’t want to date or even be seen with a guy who is stereotyped like this (even though, again, it’s NOT true).
Slipknot, I am so sorry you have to experience this BS, and especially, the rudeness from the women. But remember — there are still women out there who would love to date Asian men. Please don’t lose hope.
Chinese guys are THE BEST KEPT secret.
Most things have been covered so I don’t want to repeat them, I recommend dating a Chinese guy to anyone. I’ve been missing out. I can’t wait to go back to China and have a family, the future looks so happy and promising.
However, there is not enough information on the inbetween! husbands and boyfriends yes, but what about just getting into the relationship stage?
I know my guy likes me, reasons such as tapping his heart racily with relief when he found out a note he translated for me was from a woman, spending his only day off in 3 months with me, spending far too much cash on me and almost travelling 2 hours to see me before I stopped him…. and ofcourse the shy and coy looks, oh and buying the extra ticket to get in the train station and the speedy boarding just so he can take me right inside the train…
And yet… He is not my boyfriend!!! What is going on?!?!?!?
Luckily he will soon come to europe and be only 2 hours away on the train YEY but he hasn’t applied for visa for London, I think he thinks he can just get on the train (is what he says) not really sure if he understands that is illegal! lol
How do Chinese guys make a girl their girlfriend?????
…………………………. any thoughts and comments welcome!
So true!
Vyara, did you read my entry about Indirect Dating and Chinese Men? Chances are, he probably does want to be your boyfriend, but sometimes Chinese guys will keep you in this “dating limbo,” taking more time than you might be used to before that first move. Also, keep in mind that Chinese tend to show their love through actions, not words — so it’s much less likely that he’d verbalize his feelings for you.
Hope this helps!
Hi Jocelyn,
First I wanted to say thanks for this very good blog! I found your site the other day while searching for information on Chinese in-laws and have found it an interesting read. I do not know much about China or Chinese culture, but have been meaning to learn more for some time.
I never really thought about Chinese men / white women being an unusual marriage combination. Maybe it’s because I come from a family with an Japanese-American father and a caucasian mother. However, I think maybe it’s because stereotypically Chinese-in-laws (and particularly the mother-in-law) are difficult to deal with? You seem lucky in that you have a good relationship with your in-laws but I am not as lucky. Though I think part of it is my husband is Chinese-Australian and even he has difficulties getting along well with his parents somewhat frequently.
Our relationship seems to have gotten worse in the last year because we had our first child (their first grandchild). They have become more demanding and critical (you’re being ungrateful because you aren’t talking to us over Skype so we can see our granddaughter, you should feed her fish, you listen to much to what the doctor says on what to do with the granddaughter, etc, etc ), as has my husband’s younger sister (whom for some reason his parents seem to favor more…) I have already read your article on building a better relation with your Chinese mother-in-law but wonder how to balance your advice there with doing what’s right for my child (i.e. sometimes I’ll have to speak up when I disagree with them on parenting issues).
Hi Ellie, thanks for the comment!
Wow, that is a tough situation. Reminds me of a question I got regarding a mixed couple with a preemie baby and some very demanding parents.
Remember, first, that the criticism is probably their way of showing they care about you and the baby — 关心 as they say in Chinese. So I doubt you’ll be able to get them to stop.
It’s certainly not encouraging that your husband already has trouble dealing with them — that means your husband can’t be the sort of “goodwill ambassador” that mine is when there’s a family dispute or argument.
Still, your husband can be helpful. Ask him how he copes with his parents — does he have any suggested strategies that he has used? He’s probably the best place to start.
Their distrust of the doctor doesn’t surprise me — many Chinese feel this way about the medical professionals all over their country. A doctor friend of mine was kidnapped and threatened by a patient’s family.
In the long run, you probably won’t be able to win an argument with them. But nothing says you have to follow their advice, either. Next time they offer advice, just nod and say “sure, OK” or “that’s a great idea.” And then, when you get off the phone or Skype, do whatever you decide is best. As long as they don’t live with you, they won’t know how you’re raising your daughter.
But what about when they come to visit? I’d consult your husband on this one. Good luck.
Thanks for the advice, Jocelyn! It’s funny that Chinese seem to distrust doctors… My parents-in-law told all their kids to become doctors because of the job pays well!
Next time I think we’ll try to avoid mentioning that we were told to do something by the doctor, lol.
Thanks for your wonderful blog! 🙂
I’m a white girl from Eastern Europe, getting my PhD in California. I recently met a Chinese-born American guy and fell head over heels in love with him. We’ve been together for two years, and never had any race-related issues in our relationship. I grew up in a “color-blind” family and was always told by my parents that all humans are the same, and that we should never discriminate. It’s only recently that I became aware of the fact that my bf and I are racially different. It started when we were refused service at a Chinese restaurant in CA, about 5 months ago. Four or five separate groups (all-Asian) who came in after us were seated before us. In the end we understood what was happening and we left, because it became clear that we would never be seated. This is a small restaurant, and there is no chance we were simply overlooked. Now that my bf and I have started talking about marriage, I became more aware of racism against couples like us, and I am somewhat worried about what are kids will be going through some day. Still, our love is strong, and we have each other’s back 🙂 I was just wondering what could be so offensive (to Chinese-Americans in particular) when they see a Chinese man with a white woman. I am from a rather conservative family, I’m reserved and polite… so it’s not like I’m some barely dressed, promiscuous lady from “Sex and the City.” 🙂 It’s hard enough that I’ve been getting ugly comments from white people (nothing that other’s in my situation haven’t experienced), but I don’t understand why Chinese people react to us this way. I’ve very much accepted the Chinese culture and have great respect for it. Anyways, my boy and I are sticking together, but it doesn’t hurt to get an outside perspective and understand things better.
Hey Jocelyn, really interesting blog you have there. I haven’t been to China, but sure love to go there for once to see and understand the culture. I’m a white female who has been dating an Asian guy for awhile now and I’m loving it. I’m currently working in Singapore and my guy is a Chinese Singaporean. I never thought of dating an Asian guy before but he is one of the sweetest guy I’ve ever met. I just love the confidence and thoughtfulness he has. We do not have communication problems as people over here speak english, moreover my guy spent a considerable amount of time over in the UK. We do get the occasional ‘stares’ from people when we are out, but that doesn’t really bother us. Interestingly, before i was with my guy, i never thought that asian guys would even like white girls. I was rather surprise when he told me that many asian guys liked white girls but were just too shy. Thank god that my boyfriend isn’t the shy kinda asian, if not i wouldn’t have met him in the first place and a real plus for me was that his parents were really cool about whoever he was dating. So far everything is working pretty well for us. 🙂
Lihanna:
I am offering my explanation of the restaurant incident. Usually the Chinese restaurants (not Chinese American) prefer to serve Chinese first, because both Chinese and American see a Chinese restaurant has more Chinese, means it is authentic Chinese, so customers want to come in. The Chinese culture is basically a reserved and conservative culture. They reject Sex in the City types.
Timur, thanks for your reply. Like I mentioned, I’m nothing like the Sex in the City girls. Actually, I look extremely conservative and behave very modestly compared to the young Chinese women in the said restaurant. Unlike them, I don’t wear revealing clothing, and I am rather quiet. So nothing other than the color of my skin is the issue here. When my bf and I go to another Chinese restaurant, which has a quiet, family atmosphere, we’re always treated very nicely even though I am the only white person there. I understand what you’re saying about the restaurant owners wanting to serve Chinese people first, but this treatment is racist any way you look at it. Just imagine if you went to a tiny restaurant (no way the waiters didn’t see you) and they ignored you just because of your race. My bf and I were never given this treatment in any “white” (e.g. Italian, French) restaurant. If my guy and I got this rude treatment at a “whitie” restaurant, I would have given the manager a piece of my mind. There is no excuse for racism, regardless of who is promoting it. Racism is like rotten food: it stinks and it’s bad no matter who brings it to you. But, this is the reality, and there will always be racists in this world.
Lihanna:
I understand how you feel. But I am trying to say something profound. If it is a perfect world out there and there is no unreasonalble irritants, we apt to be more relaxed, nothing to prove and perhaps go backwards. Franklin Roosevelt (who had polio) said he learned humility by crawling on the floor. The Chinese in general are on their toes nowadays, thanks to what they have experienced.
Do you guys believe this that Asian guys have to make $250k in order for a white girl to date them? for Hispanic men only $77K and for black men $150K? That’s full of baloney.Some stupid professor make a survey on this issue. Asians make more money than White in America ,but we only make up 4 % of the population. You mean white women don’t want to give asian men a chance because they don’t want to be seen with a minority that only make up only 4 % of the population or less ? I understand why there are no lead men that are Asian on movies etc is because we are threats to white men. America is at conflicts with most Asian countries like China , Japan , Korea etc. For example, if I make $250k a yr and a white woman like me and give me a chance for that reason only, I DON’T want her anyway. Why do I want a person like this man? I don’t care if she’s beautiful/hot or she’s red , green or alien!There are so many beautiful women out there like Spanish, Asian, Blacks, Mexican etc. A beautiful person is defined by having a beautiful heart not materialistic things. What if I make $250k these 5 yrs and this yr I have to deliver pizza ? so , you’ll leave my ass? No wonder the divorce rate is 50% in America. population here is 302 millions.
I believe there has been a tradition of marriage between Chinese men and Russian women from last centuries to last decades. Anybody cares to comment. Images are irrational and changeable too.
Timur,
You mean Russian women and Chinese Men live near the border of Russia and China? I heard Russian women near there love Chinese men.
Awesome blog! I love your writing 🙂
I always find it a bit strange to think of interracial relationships as anything at all unusual, because as a biologist I can’t even force myself (for the heck of it) to think of racial differences as anything other than superficial details. A lot of sites offering advice on interracial dating sound like “How to take care of your pet alien” manuals, and it makes me wonder why people can’t see right through race. Your blog is very insightful and refreshing. Cultural differences are indeed something to take into consideration, and I really enjoy reading your posts. For example, I am white, but my Chinese boyfriend and I have much more in common culturally speaking, than me and some white person from the US. I’m from a Slavic country. It is culture that makes people different, not race, but even cultural differences ought to be a source of learning and joy, not a source of disagreements.
Also, as someone who’s faced ethnic persecution, I have to say that there is not excuse for racism. Lihanna, I agree with you. In my case, precisely because my family and I have been discriminated against and threatened, we wouldn’t dream of discriminating against anyone else.
As for Asian man, I don’t find them to be in any way deficient compared to men of other races. In fact, I find that their masculinity is more substance and less show.
Bruce, face it you are living in a country that HATES Asian men. You are a sub-human, even though they do not addmitt that. That is absurb to me not because they are RACIST but the fact that they pretend to be open and None-racist yet deep within they are.
I graduated from a very good US university and I know this especially among the younger generation Amreicans. Americans are actually more racist than ever and they are spreading this hate world wide. Trust me, they always blame their downfall on other people. I have talked to many Asian Americans, and half Asian Americans(with Mother excluisvely Asian and White father). Young Asian men are HOPELESS in the US they are DOOMed and futureless, many of them told me this, and I asked them:” why wont you move to a better country like China.” They all stared at me in shock. They told me that China is EVIL and BAD they would rather live in US and GET FUCKED than returen. You see this is how things will go in the US now for future Asian Americans, they are SO brain washed by American media that they HATE their own identy. I have long and Asian hair style, one of my Asian male friend asked me am I gay? WTF man, why is having Asian hair style GAY? WTF, man. FUCK YOU WHITE MAN, FUCK YOU!!!!! He then told me you should get hair cut that looks like Pauly D in the Jersy shore!!! WTF again. I say this, I would rather DIE than getting a FUCKED up retarded hair cut like Pauly D!
Now as for Half Asians. They are SO FUCKED UP. They hate their Asian side and love the white side. This is true. One example. There is this half Japanese half WHite guy named Calvin. He wants to be “friend” with me why? He told me that his mother is Japanese and Japan is under full controll, how is things in China? In other word he is SCARED with the Raise of CHina and afraid that China will take over one day. I asked him do you speak Japanese or have a Japanese name? He told me NO with a very wired and sick attitude, like calling him a Japanese is some sort of offense. So I told him this just to PISS him off, I said: ” China is a FREE country without any sort of control from the US, in fact we love screwing up US enconomy by selling Made In China products and destorying US manturing capacity.” He is shocked and awed ans since then never spoke to me again. THere is another Half Asian girl whos mother is also Japanese. She hates Asian guys, however she talked to me first cause she thought I was half white too, she told me that I have “white” feture. Can you beleive this?? How can one person say this to another? Is this the Country that Asians are dying to get in for?? FUCK THIS, Once I get my master degree I am out of here, this fuck up place.
Bruce, I am sure you know Bruce Lee. Do you know how much racism he has endured in the US? He was born in the US but he can not become an actor because he is a Chinese, an Asian man!!!!!!!!!! He went to HK, became sucessfull and then got into Hollywood. He was killed by the Racist because they thought him as a THREAT, his movies are too popular, and he is too sucessful as an Asian man at that time, during the CRAZY civil right movement 1970’s White men will NOT allow this to happen, and this is how he DIED. They then FUCKING lied about his death, caliming that he died from a headach, WHAT A FUCKING LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have also talked to many White Europeans. WHite Europeans both men and women are much less RACIST than americans toward Asians, because they told me that there are much less Asians(Chinese/Koreans) in Europe so the locals DO NOT view them as threats. Instead they are racist agaisnt Arabs. But things are changing too, Europe and even latin America under FUCKING American influence are becoming increasing RACIST towards Asian men. I once spoke to a Swedish girl, in fact she is my first White girl. She told me that she is not ashamed of liking Asian guys. I was like WTF, why do you have to be ashamed of liking Asian guys. She told me that Asian guys are shown as weak, neardy, unattradtive and sneaky freaks in American movies and many Swedish girls most whom NEVER saw a real Asian guy became “SCARED” of Asian guys. WTF MAN, WTF. She told me that she likes Asian guys, because of Korean dramma, Japanese movies and other Asian media influences. She told me that she thinks Asian guys are sweet and handsome at least according to her.
I hope US decline, decline, and decline more then eventually collapse and DIE like the USSR. Only when this FUCKED up true evil country DIES can the rest of the world have peace, and then Every race can come together and live in peace, understand each other and respect each others culture. I as a Chinese man do not have lust for White women, I see White women everyday in the US, they are NOT the women in the movies and they are DARK inside.
One last thing. As for Bruce Lee. Do you know that the RASICT also killed his only SON, Brandon Lee was killed in a movie “acciendent”. A FUCKING accident. Go google yourself.
Believe it man, US is not a place for Asian men. You are FUCKED if you stay in this hopeless shit hole. Wake up and go back to your home! There you will find RESPECT, LOVE, SUCCESS, and PEACE.
As for all the Asian men who seeks none-Asian women. Go to Eastern Europe, Northern Europe is ok too but Scandanivans are becoming RACIST due to Arab immigration and American influence. DO NOT EVER GO TO ENGLAND, they are even more Racist than Americans! For South America, Brizl is good. Africa is also very good, if you like black girls. Leave USA for SHIT SAKE, take your knowledge and wealth, and SEAK a place that really belongs to you. Your home, China.
Ive just moved to the United Kingdom and was impressed how many western females date asian men. I also was told that being of ‘Asian” background means being of Sikh, Hindu background etc,… after i had asked where there may be Asian restaurants etc and was pointed out to a Hindu restaurant LOL . There are many lovely Chinese, Korean etc men here, and i find them very attractive. I wish they would be a little more ‘open’ in speaking to western females. Many acknowledge me on the street, a slight smile and being single i am flattered when they do so, but im finding it hard to strike a conversation with them. Sadly may this be due to the fact that many Asian men may think that we dont want to talk to them? being shy i finding it hard to strike up a conversation with an asian man..i hope i have some luck soon….
Slipknot,
I won’t leave America yet until I’m 67 yrs old 🙂 hehehhha LOL. Don’t worry everything will be fine here. It’s not that bad. You don’t have to take my word for it. We’re talking about dating here man not WAR! Asians still have the highest income here . Maybe I’m older than you and I’ve been through alot of obstacles. It’s not that bad at all. I know is this that you have to work like machines in America and pay taxes until you die.
Peace
Marie M,
I have cousins that live in London.You can talk to me about anything ,but I’m not single sorry , my dear. I guess you have to chase after them now. If I was single , I could talk to you days and nights about any subjects. It’s great that you try to talk to Asian men. Just talk with any cute Asian men and I can promise that you will land a really nice man.
Bruce: Asian men and Russian women has a historic background as Asian men and American has another historic background. This a a rich area to explore. Let me venture some conjectures: The Asiatic(mongol, hun) imvasions in the midieval times that a great deal of impact of Russia and perhaps even Poland. Lenin is 1/4 Karzar(Mongol) from Volga river. Breshnev, Chereanko, Nelson, the Russian leaders all have Asian features. During the Chinese revolution, Many Chinese students took Russian wives(including Nationalist Chiang’s son Ging Ko. Nowadays on the borders of course. Some Polish even have Asian features, and the traditional female hat is very much a mongol hat. Chinese in America in the last 150 is a exclusive history, when the imigrant Irish began to squeech the Chinese out with lawyers and the court. Because Chinese look like Am Indians so treated the same after white took over the continent. Part of it because of the education of US is detached from reality and Americans are laughing stocks outside of the country, and people are unaware of it. Basically, there is no place of Asians in the American popular culture. So Americans do not know how to relate. The image of Americans are still the sexy blonds. and American idols, etc., irrational but influentual, not the overweight guys, bank-possessed house and guys on drugs. The images are changing. Jocelyn is smart to raise the questions. But I do say is that people say because of ignorance, but if you believe or rely on it, you are stupid. I think the “New” Chinese is open. I saw last week China performed a American Indian musical, giving it full respect and good research. They are learning in all corners of the earth. Truth will come out, about their character and intelligence.
Timur,
Chinese people are changing,but it will take more time. China is still a developing Country. Maybe it’ll take another 30 to 50 yrs in order to catch up with everything like high living standards , etc ,etc. you name it.
I’m sorry, but Slipknot is a goddamn troll and probably not Chinese at all. Asian women are all sellouts? Every Chinese man should marry a non-Asian woman? Bruce Lee killed his own son? Wtf? He can’t even spell Shanghai, or Guangdong or Chongqing. There is discrimination against Asian men in the US, that’s for sure. But the stuff you say are the words of a troll or someone who is seriously mentally imbalanced.
As for interracial relations, I’ve had Asian, white and hispanic girlfriends. I barely even make the distinction anymore. People are just people. Be a good MAN and you’ll get girls no matter what ethnicity.
Women are smart and love to compare and they know if you’re a good catch or not. Just treat them right , communicate and prove them wrong on certain areas. Once, you stand out from the rest, they will pick you. Trust me, women love good qualities from men.
Bruce: Don’t let other people’s igrnorance border you. Consider those are the head winds make you fight harder to better yourselves. Eventually you will become better, better physically and mentally. The Chinese men and the American women are the “new” Chinese and Americans. the best of their kinds. How much fun. Others don’t know how much they are missing.
Timur,
Chinese men and White women are like “magnet”. Opposites attract :). It’s my metaphor hahahaha :). The main focus is to keep on talking to that gal while showing your qualities ,values and long term goals.. Yes, they’re missing alot. Do you feel bored eating burgers everyday? *hint,hint*
The President of the United States and the Leader of China are meeting today for dinner. America owes China almost 1 trillion . Will Chinese men have influence in the World regarding currency , power and sex appeals to White women? You guys are smart people , you decide.
i am a chinese male, and i don’t mind dating a while female so long as she doesn’t mind my “height issue”.
looking for a coy chinese male to share you feeling with in any regards is also welcomed.
my mail [email protected]
美国野心狼，好戏还在后头呢！你等着瞧着吧…
This is one stupid issue that won’t go away peacefully with love, empathy and understanding. Its not the fault of the Russians, or for that matter the neutered EU now. Its solely an American intransigence, something I’m sure will be addressed in the decades to come as China’s muscle gets tougher, and ALOT smarter! :))))
I just wonder when that day comes if Chinese forces will return the American racist compliments the same way the Russian Red Army did with the “Superior Aryan Teutonic” womenhood in the days following the Fall of Berlin, or perhaps effect an entirely more lasting and poignant reminder instead.
崩溃！评论太多，我的内存都到百分之70了！
Hi,
I have just discovered your blog, and what a magnificent find! I am currently residing in Xi’an, China teaching English to university students. I met my current boyfriend nearly a week after arriving and about six months later we are still dating. I am constantly seeking advice but I haven’t met any other foreign women dating a Chinese man, lest even interested in one. Thanks for writing, and inspiring me to blog about my own relationship trials and tribulations!
Sincerely,
Marissa K
I dated with white american and british males few times, statistically, they’re very romantic at first, they can afford things such as expensive restaurant , dine, wine, etc but all of them: they want to have sex after a year or less, which really makes me a little bit disgusted. It’s a true statement, that chinese tend to be shy, it’s the same trait as my husband now. I know it’s weird since i’m the one who fall in love with him at first and i took act in the beginning as he felt inferior. He was a no brainer in romantic thingy, and he can’t afford expensive restaurant (maybe just a reason, as he’s a bit stingy). Since then we had fun travelling around the world together.. and after a few years date he’s now my fulltime husband and we’ve been together for almost 15 years! 🙂
My husband is a chinese male and i’m white american. He is shorter than me but he’s cute, in his 40ish he look so young and i fall in love with him everyday, my friend told me that i love small dick and i replied back proudly: yes, it’s cute! (ooops sorry) (but i don’t care about size, coz i love him so much), He’s very inspiring, calm, shy, and i could die for it. Once my parent think that chinese = lousy + dirty + poor + uneducated. And finally he changed his mindset once my husband bought them a landed house in the US few years after our marriage. He’s one of a goddamn rich and hardworker in his hometown, Beijing. But i never expect his family is very rich at first. Now we have 2 beautiful daughters and both are studying in Beijing.
He got a very big family, i’ve learned so many things about business, relationship from them. If you’re white female with chinese male, just make sure you can adapt yourself in his family. They’re family oriented and everything about family (think ants and the colony)… it sounds like mafia / triad / yakuza. but thats how i feel the first time he introduce myself to all his family member…
Chinese people don’t like to show everything in the open especially when it comes to wealth. I know several Chinese men that are multi millionaires but they don’t dress fancy or drive expensive cars. One guy drives a car that worths less than $20k , owes several high end real estates including golf course. If he needs his family to wire $20 millions Cash from Asia , he will receive it within a week( business worths several hundred millions U.S dollars in Asia) . Another Chinese man doesn’t look like rich at all, but his kids drive Porche 911 and Ferrari in his Country. The bottom line is that Chinese people see things in value differently from Westeners. Also, majority of Chinese like to pay off loans/ mortgages early. Anyway, I can’t even tell who is rich nowadays.
I’ve noticed that most Chinese men still don’t understand the sterotypes with White women (western women) usually with Chinese men that are still living in a foreign country for like 10 to 12 yrs. They are still learning English and about the Western culture. I truly think that the problem is all about communication for these men. Most Chinese /Asian men still think that White women are ” wild, go to bars, will file for divorce and kick you to the curb “. I know a good friend/client that I wrote about a few months ago that he doesn’t speak much English ;however, he has a White gf and have a daughter w/ him . The gf’s mom loves her grand daughter so much I’m telling you! His Chinese friends said ” Western women are no good”. I said’ can you tell me why your friends say that ?” Once my friend told his friends that ” this white/western woman is different. She’s down to earth, she doesn’t drink or smoke, she’s conservative, she knows how to save money , she believes in marriage etc,etc”. I said” WELL, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU WAITING FOR!!” It’s very hard to find Chinese women that have such good qualities already . He’s working 7 days a week with his business ;however, his gf and his daughter visit him and demand more time with him and wants him to get married and get a marriage license and live in the same house instead of driving back and forth. He always says ” my English is limited and don’t know how to show my feelings at times and she’s younger than 10 yrs, blah, blah ,blah..” Told him several times to express yourself, learn more English, don’t worry about money ( his business is doing great right now ),don’t worry about divorce( this guy really believes in marriage for life), don’t worry about that when you die , all your wealth will go to her “new bf” ( smart people have will ) and just relax and everything will be fine. If I were him, I would get married with her. It’s extremely difficult to find someone with these kinds of qualities nowadays ( doesn’t matter if she’s Asian or White).
Hi,
Thanks for sharing your ideas.
Im a religious person and its been three years that my Chinese friend is emailing me and sending me gifts and all. I only saw him twice 3 years ago and now he is coming to see me and talk about future. Im surprised and I don’t know what i should expect from him. I don’t know if he has ever considered that living with me and the package that comes with me ( i.e. culture, religion…) might be very hard. Do you think he likes me because of all that? do you think he would want to be more like me than who he really is? I don’t know why he chose me because i didn’t ever told him i love him or whatever, his parents told my parents that he is shy, but he wanted us to ask for your permission to date your daughter.
Are Chinese men able to overcome all those barriers because of love? or he would actually forget about me if i tell him how hard life might be!?
I really think you should spend more time with this guy since you only saw him 2 times. Normally, if you date a person within 6 months, his or her REAL personality comes out. Abserve how he reacts to and handles everyday problems. Will he be very explosive at first and solve problems in a concrete fashion or will he be going in circles with no solutions. There is no right or wrong way of overcoming barriers because of love. You just have to compromise and don’t force him/her into something. Everything should flow gradually like water! ” If a cow is not thirsty, how can you push its head down to drink water “. Don’t listen to others, your heart will tell you if he/she is the one.
Endlessly yours,
Bruce
Hi! well.. I’m a 19 years old swedish girl,I’m only attracted to asian guys and I love asia and asian things,I want to learn how to speak for example mandarin,cantonese,japanese and korean^^right now I’m trying learning mandarin but I do know some korean and japanese already=).I’ve always been shy around cute asian guys lol,and no I don’t have a fetish for asians it’s just a preference,My parents don’t care about who I would be with as long as he is nice to me,I have had a half korean-japanese boyfriend and he was even born here in Sweden but he always seemed to be embarressed by me and didn’t even tell his parents about me,he just said that he was sure they wouldn’t accept me and then he broke up with me because he said he was busy with school =/.Also an old chattbuddy of mine who happens to be a very cute(24) chinese guy contacted me again wanting to talke so we did over msn using the phone thing and he said that even though we hadn’t talked for over 1 year ago that he still missed me, he would like to meet me because he is studying in France but then he just stopped contacting me and I don’t know why.I happen to be a little overweight but cute! I’m working hard now to get to normal weight with eating right(don’t drink soda or eating candy) and exercising everyday but he knew that and said that he didn’t care about that,I’m just haunted with the idea what went wrong??was it something I said that scared him off,it just makes me sad thinking about it. I just hope someday that I would find true love with an asian man. I think the whole cultural difference is blown out of proportion with reality my ex always created problems that weren’t even there, he never took me out anywhere and I even offered to pay for everything but he still didn’t want to because what people would have thought about us and I said that I don’t care what others would think,It’s our lifes and if we are happy together why should we let unimportant people affect us and tell us who we should or shouldn’t be with.
@Elli, i think the communciation between you and your Chinese friend is not so frequent. Or maybe he is too shy to talk with you. or maybe he has his reason that he can not contact you. you know what, if some Chinese men have their own problem, like family issue, if it has a bad influence on your relationship, then he will give some reason that he does not want to contact you. But i think if you stay positive, there are many things that you will experience, and also one day that he will come back to you. Besdies, i thikn cultural difference is also a key factor to the multicultural relationship. But more important is how both, i mean the man and women, how they judge and evaluate their relationship, if there is a true love between both, cultural difference is not important than the real human relationship. Because if there is a true love between 2 people in their life, both will still remember each other even if they broke up with each other in a unforeseeing future. Love can be stronger, deeper and more everlasting than cultural difference.
Elli, as I said before.
English Speaking countries: USA, UK, Austrila are RACIST toward Asian guys. This is a TRUTH. Especially Americans, one day we will make them PAY for this.
As for you, you should make the first move, keep talking to him. I too met a Swedish girl and I talked to her first 😉
Good luck.
Wow, its good to read so many experiences here. I cannot give a take on the AM/WW pairing per se since I am in a CM/IW (?) relationship. This apparently is even rarer unless you go to South East Asia or parts of US or Canada where Indians and Chinese are raised together. Even within India and CHina, its more common to see it on the borders and between Indian men and Chinese women. There are a couple of reasons from what I gathered and what my boyfriend told me.
1) Chinese society is racist and so is Indian society. The ‘dark skin’ factor especially is a cause of disagreement to pairing with Indian women. According to my bf, foreign women to chinese mean white women and that may not be as frowned upon as a woman from another race or ethnicity. Again its more about skin color so say a light skinned indian girl may be far more accepted over a dark skinned one.
2) Indian women from India are more reserved. Its just not common for Indian women to date or marry outside their race. Like chinese, we are very family oriented and usually such unions are not taken well by the family. My family was a lot more open minded about it, but even my father who is quite liberal had a hard time accepting my chinese boyfriend.
3) Socialization. I first met asian men in the US and my first impression of them was that they are nice and well mannered as acquaintances but seem to keep to themselves and asian women. So it never occurred me that I would actually end up dating one. I even found conversations with them strained and not very comfortable. Of course this was totally reversed when I met my boyfriend.
4) Possible social implications. Even though it was quite obvious to me and my bf that we shared something very special and strong, he deliberated and hesitated before we were together. To the point of denying his feelings to me. I guess it was easier for me to accept because I had lived in the US for about 2 yrs then and was more open to interracial relationships or anything else for that matter. But he was concerned about obvious skepticism from loved ones and cultural differences (despite the marked similarities in our cultures and geographical proximity we are still so different. I can only imagine the difference between an eastern/western perspective)
Not to mention, the once in a while “I must be a casual friend with benefits” ‘disrespectful’ look I get from some chinese men doesnt add much incentive. But for most part, I think its the fear of social implications than anything else that discourages these unions.
I definitely adored the Chinese men I have dated. When I see an attractive Chinese man walking I notice I stare longingly. I had such a beautiful past experiences and hope to again. Thanks for this post.
Hello Jocelyn I am really admire your husband. He can
meet and date marry with your such as pretty west girls
I am living and working in Shanghai. But unlucky I don’t have chance to know and meet the west girls in Shanghai
and don’t know how to know them. and where I can easy to say hello to them and be their friends. If any foreigner girls that working and living in Shanghai. Pls contact with me. I really want find a foreigner girls as
girlfriends. I hope I can marry with a west girl like jocelyn
Then have a nice family. My name is Frank. any my E-mail is [email protected]. and my skype is frankzhao555. my mobile is 13671918270. I am waiting for the good new. Thanks!
It is good to see more Chinese men with white girls.
The vast majority of the Asian males who are growing up and living in most of the white countries all over the world always date white females and marry white females, except in the racist white Anglo/British countries.
It is very difficult for Asian men and women to be accepted as equals by the racist white Anglo/British people.
Other white countries are not so racist towards Asian people.
For example, in Sweden, the Swedish people are not racist at all towards Asian people. Swedish people usually tend to treat the Chinese, Korean and Japanese men and women as equals to white Swedish people.
In Sweden, it is very easy for a Chinese, Korean or Japanese man to get a white Swedish girlfriend or wife.
Usually, the white Swedish girls are very attracted to Asian men, because many white Swedish girls think that Asian men are sexually more attractive and more exotic than white Swedish men.
In Sweden, two-thirds of all the Chinese men will end up getting married to white Swedish girls, and three-quarters of all the Chinese girls will get married to white Swedish men ( as usual, it is always easier for Chinese girls than for Chinese men to be accepted by white people).
Most of the white countries around the world, such as Portugal, Holland, Germany, Poland, Greece, France, Italy, Uruguay, Denmark, Russia, Argentina, Norway, Spain, Croatia, Finland,….are similar to Sweden. All those white countries tend to be more friendly to Asians, and between 45% to 65% of all the Chinese men end up getting married to white girls in virtually every white country in the world, except for the racist white Anglo/British countries.
Among the Anglo/British countries, the white British countries are particularly racist. In the racist white British countries, the racist British people persistently look down on Asians.
In New Zealand, only 1% to 2% of all the Chinese men ever get married to white New Zealand girls.
Australia is slightly better, 2% to 3% of all the Chinese men get married to white Australian girls ( Australia is less British, there are a lot of white Australian girls whose parents were Italians, Greeks…)
America is ten times less racist towards Asians than New Zealand since 10% to 20% of all the Chinese men get married to white American girls ( there are a lot of white American girls whose ancestors are not white British, their white ancestors came from Germany, Sweden, Italy, Russia…).
Obviously, the white Anglo/British countries tend to be more racist towards Asian people, particularly the white British countries, and New Zealand is the most racist of all the white British countries.
slipknot, you stated that ” Europe and even latin America under FUCKING American influence are becoming increasing RACIST towards Asian men. I once spoke to a Swedish girl, in fact she is my first White girl. She told me that she is not ashamed of liking Asian guys. I was like WTF, why do you have to be ashamed of liking Asian guys. She told me that Asian guys are shown as weak, neardy, unattradtive and sneaky freaks in American movies and many Swedish girls most whom NEVER saw a real Asian guy became “SCARED” of Asian guys. ”
That is so true.
I am a Chinese guy, and I can speak fluent Swedish, Danish, Dutch, German, English, French, Italian, Spanish, Croatian, Serbian, and I can understand some Norwegian, Portuguese, Romanian, Polish, Czech, Russian, Slovakian, Bulgarian, and I have always known that the Anglo/Americans have been busy teaching all the other countries to speak English and to brainwash all the other countries through the racist English media propaganda and the racist Hollywood movies to look down on Chinese people.
I have had lots of white girlfriends, Swedish, Danish, German, French, Spanish and Serbian girlfriends, and I can definitely state that they were not racist towards Chinese men. Only the white English/American girls were racist.
Hello, seem there is trans for lot of west meet east
and people may need realize that only travel can be more effective way for meeting up. and would you like China, Chinese foods? Culture or rather see Chinese men? besides all these points, I would say Go China! see this country first then ganining ideas about what its look alike, what is unquie, luckliy One of my Chinese friend who provides such a great chance for us americans who are interested in everything about China, so I think we should go on the trip to China First then will surely have much more to come out?
I wish everyone of us should take chance to travel, here its the Chance, http://www.chinavisittour.com/ , Canadians & Americans or wherever you are from, Please Let Go to see what is China alike?
Cheers.
Julie
Michale, you need to get a real Chinese name!!
For Sh!T sake. I told you this is the truth. Chinese know this very well and that is why we Chinese have to destory American encomy so that it can never spread its influence anymore.
China is doing a wonderful job on that, so dont worry, soon their influence will be gone. Also when China gets strong enough, we will take care our British enemy and destory them once and for all.
BTW, I am NOT KIDDING!!!
For all the crime they have done to us, selling opium and drugs.
Also, we need to destory Japan as well.
Look at what China is doing right now, expanding military crazy and building up arms.
It is coming, soon in our life time, you will see it.!
Unfortunately a simple thing like attractiveness boils down to the cruel realily of national standing. Britain did a lot of bad things to the Chinese like selling opium and wars, yet they are the ones look down upon Chinese. That shows strength counts. China through her long history being up and down a number of times and learned lessons of life, unlike the west who knows only up. I hope the western girls will find the humility and tenacity in the character of the Chinese men attractive. If they don’t have what is good they can always acquire.
I like china so I am here in china, offcourse, I was curious about chinese people and like their culture and historyso it was natural for me to fall in love with a chinese man. This chinese man happen to be bit wealthier than me. All my chinese female friends opposed this and said he is a user and want to play with foreign girl, and mentioned they themselves wont mind to be third party of such a wealthy man. And ask me indirectly do I mind third parties if yes, I better leave China and date some british man,all western male friends said I was making a mistake,Many asian man ask about if I was happy with the physiology (penis) of chinese man and all other people said to my friends that I was a gold digger. I myself am well off asian (middle east) british female. I
cant understand why its so difficult. The shop keepers, hair dressers and even waiters ask me to take it not serious but as a chinese experience. His chinese friends mentioned they like chinese girls and not the foreign girl. So that’s how the story ended. A lot of pressure and wrong advice. Its not easy for a foreign woman to date with chinese man. These are the problems I face I dont know his side of story but I am sure he must be getting some s… like this too ,making it extremely difficult to work on a relationship. Now I am dating with a western man and there is no problem , no question, no raised eye brows…its easy
Jocelyn,
I just notice the graphics, it is quite hard for me to put the visual together but it does not raise the eyebrow otherwise.
Finding a woman to date is easy but finding a woman with similar values is more difficult. It’s not about sex at all because our minds are too occupied with work and other things already. My friend just called me and he said that he had dated several white women but he didn’t have the luck to find one that he could connect to. All he meant was that he wanted someone who cared about each other more and not like whatever.It’s easy for him to pick up any women of any race but he says connection between two people and values are the issues with him. Finding someone who will be with you through good time and bad time I think that’s what he means.
Well, I am a chinese student studying in Canada. I’ve been always thinking about the little thing for white girl since I arrived in Canada one and a half years ago but there was barely a chance for me in reality to be social with them mainly because of language barrier and cultural diference. For example, I still remember the time I was really fresh to this country(I am still fresh BTW). I once went to my canadian friend’s birthday party. There were white girls who tried to break the ice with me but I couldn’t find anything related to talk. My friend also kept me following him to make sure I wouldn’t make any trouble. Then, I just realized the crowd made me mariginalized while drinking and partying (that is the craziest way I’ve ever seen in life for western people to socialize, lol ) but I told myself I wouldn’t sleep on that even if I’ve been through a lot (some white girls have discriminative attitudes toward asian guys like “so asian” , “asian guys suck, can’t” “rice boy” etc ). During the past year I had a little doubt and always question myself like am I attractive to western girls. I did kinda research online (to see if it is still possible to work it out with a white girl sonner or later without staying alone for like 4 lonely years lol ) and found things really surprising me. there is certainly a bunch of white girls who are fascinated by asian cultures and love asian boys but sometimes they are also criticised by racists as non-mainstream (people may say they have asian fetish or yellow fever. That’s the first time for me to find these new words) but one thing I should be happy with is that the different race seems to be more culturally intergrated in harmony as globalization goes in spite of some obvious bad consequences because we do drink the pop like coca cola and play online games through globalization. Our religious or political views AKA Ideology may vary but we live the same life (I watched a video on youtube in which there is a lady stating cheif reasons why she goes for asian man. I was so flattered. thanks for her support). I think it’s the first time to witness asian men are admirwed in western society plus I didn’t feel comfortable when I was first called “the asian guy” but at the time I could see the word “asian” could be used in the positive way. However, More surprisingly, I found the web ACT(www.asiancaucasianturf.com). Yes, that’s the breakthrough or milestone for me. Internet definitely works for AMWF relationship. I’m no longer embarassed and awkward to socialize with western girls. in that cyber space, I can talk to them so freely without any barriers. besides, They love asian guys and cultures. I’m also curious about AMWF relationship during that time. For example, I would pay my attention to look back these couples on Street everytime, asking myself a question like how did they know each other and started dating? I guess They’ve confronted many issues(how their friends,family and other outsiders would judge them?) It’s totally not easy at all. Fortunately, an italian girl just came into my life on ACT this summer. We talked about things around us and found a lot in common as it’s going so well. Now we are the sweetiest couple in a committed relationship.
Gill,
I’m very happy for you. Don’t feel intimidated by women( any race) in general. Most women are nervous , too so don’t be scared. If you want something in life , you have to be focused and go for it. Dating is like fishing! Sometimes you reel in a big fish and it gets away. Well, don’t give up and put back your bait and start catching fish again. You never know you might land a beautiful, wonderful wife!
Good luck.
One thing I must advice to Asian men. It is that the physical appearance is utmost important in the western society. Are you muscular and thin and look better than the white boys? You must also be able to look beyond the surfaces in different cultures and have a variety of interests, and find cultural insights to faciliate good conversations. On the other things, security, achievements you are probablly better than the whites. There are other things that you can never acquire such as slapstick humor, talk nonsense in a party that the whites like to do. It is just common that other people are jealous, creating myths, physical size(It does not matter.) because they want to keep everything for themselves.
My boyfriend is Chinese he’s been here 5 years with his family.
I am the first white girl he has dated.
Sometimes it’s interesting as he asks me what are legitimate questions of course to him and I can’t help but giggle.
I’m known he’s done it to me also.
Good example was when he came over with ice cream bars and I stuck it in my mouth and then made a curious face and he’s like “do you like it”?
I said “yes but what am I eating?”
hahahaha
so its definitely interesting sometimes.
But I think this keeps it fun also.
we kind of teach each other along the way.
He moves so quickly from what I’m used to, that also took some time adjusting to (not that I had a lot of that). I wasn’t prepared for someone to be so serious about me so quickly.
It might be how he’s tiring me down so quickly thus far also giving me no time to think about the situation might have just worked better for him. hahahaa.
Though sometimes I have to wonder how it is he moves so quickly I mean on the 2nd date I had briefly met the parents (I mean for like 2 mines)which was long enough to tell me how pretty I Was in mandarin. Luckily I know a tiny bit and how to respond to that. AND then off to meet all the friends as well. (Little did I know this was all happening)
its only been about 2 months of knowing each other and for the last week solid all he does is talk about having babies with me. Which to me is definitely quick on the move.
Next week I meet the parents officially for a dinner out.
I think he assumes I know more than I do I had to research this page to find out I’m suppose to bring something..
I am sooooooooooooooooo nervous about dinner!
You will be fine. Don’t be nervous.
You know Chinese people really value education and Chinese parents push their kids too hard on studying instead of picking up chicks at school. I currently know a few Chinese kids ( 19 to 22 yrs old) and some of them have white gfs but they are so focused on school that their relationships don’t work out. They are studying to become doctors and school works overwhelm them. One kid said ” I want a supportive , warmth and caring gf while I’m going to school. she doesn’t want to stick around , that’s fine with me” .
Yes hes been very busy I maybe see him once or 2 times a week with work and then he does courses on top of that and of course is around to help his parents out.
I think i’m not as nervous about that now its a whole new set of nervous . he told me he told his mother today he wants to have baby with me and shes ok with that .
Guess i’m accepted already on our short meeting.
Now have a whole new set of things to worry about on such short notice.
I think as Chinese , we have to be more united. To some countries , we Chinese people are like a handful of loose sand ( not united ). Can we afford to be set back another 20 yrs? I have a lot of things in my mind that I want to say but I feel like if I say them, people will be mad at me. Only you can change on how people think of you as Chinese men. The more we talk to westerners and the more we open up to westerners, they will understand more about Chinese men and women and our culture. Educating people is the key. If you can change and I can change, tell me what we can not change in this world. Majority of the women will give you a chance if you open up and express yourself. To train yourself to open up it’s like training for a job or training for a basketball game. The more you do it the more you get better at it and the more confidence you have. If you have hygiene problems like a stinky breath , get a deep clean . If you have body odor , take a vinegar bath and squeeze some lime juice to neutralize the odor. Don’t be so stinky that you don’t even put armpit deordorant. trim your nose hair while getting a hair cut Damn it!! I see alot of westerners whom have hygiene issues also but still we have to clean up for our health and our image. I’m a clean freak by choice and not because I have to. CHINESE MEN OUT THERE PLEASE CLEAN UP AND EXPRESS YOURSELVES.you know who you are!
Thank you guys!
Bruce, your dream of Asian man(Chinese, Korean, Japanese) unite will NEVER come true. HELL, even Chinese man (mainland Taiwan) will not!!
Why??
Because AmeriKKKa will always do shit to hurt our unity. When releation among Korea, China, Japan, Vietname, gets better, AmeriKKKA always jumps in and fucks things up. AmeriKKKa and to a lesser extend Europe will NEVER want to see us unite, so that way we will get stronger and better which will make their lives tougher.
China must build up its military rapaidly and take over Taiwan by FORCE. By then at least we Chinese will be united. Then we Chinese the only man in East Asia, can then do something to solve this shit problem!!
[Moderator’s note: This comment has been censored because it is hate speech]
@John Rambo You are such an American rubbish. Does your parents feed you with some grass which make you grow up like a naughty child, and sometimes behave like a crazy dog barking everywhere?
I suggest you come to China and stand in the street in Beijing, and speak loudly, “Chinese men are the most low class men on the plant!”. By the way, I suggest you speak in Chinese. Are you afraid of doing this? Hey, silly boy, you can become a hero, come to China and do this!! Are you afraid of doing this? I guess you are very afraid!!!!! What a coward you are! I think you are only a person who can talk online but not do it in the real life. What a coward boy!!
John Rambo,
“Most American men no longer want American women, and this is why over 50 percent of American women are single”. That is a misleading statement. John, John ,John , you can’t maintain your relationship with American women and you blame on those women and other men ( asian men included). I think your woman cheated on you in America really bad ,dude! I guess you don’t like asian women either because they in the same “low life group” like asian men. An asian woman , European woman, White American woman , etc can cheat on you in seconds if you don’t clean up your way of thinkings . Do you know why “First blood John Rambo”? Keep on watching sports ( NFL , NBA) and play online games while forcing pizza and cheesy lasagna up your ass. Rambo, if you have a sister or a daughter , is she in that low life american woman category ? You hypocrite :(! Keep on turning those channel with your “big daddy remote control” dude. Listen!, if you talk , write and think like you express yourself here , no freaking women will want your demanding , self centered ass! You think you make a stinky few dollars and bring home and expect a woman to cook , clean and clean your ass ? You are a control freak here. Most American women get divorces because you American men are creating all this mess. America is losing its values because of men like you. I always remember this phrase ” it takes two to tango”. Any relationships ( including homosexual couples) .. you need two people to make it work. Rambo, what makes you better than anyone here ? You lazy, inconsiderated ass. Now go and hunt a deer for us and cook for us NOW! I think you say these things here out of jealousy because you don’t have a woman or American woman or Europen woman to LOVE you like these women who love their Chinese men on these blogs!Let me tell you , First blood John Rambo, you’re not talking to a weak minded person here. One man defending for 150 millions American men in America . sooo courageous ! Maybe those American men cheated on their white American women , duh?. Rambo, you need to apologize to these women here and seek help outside this site. You need anger management. Oh yeah I have an idea for you to help you to CHANGE ( Obama ). Maybe I’ll kick your lazy ass near the border of China and Russia for a labor intensive digging rocks for the next 25 yrs and send your relaxed ass back to America and now see if you still think like this. Sorry, I don’t want to talk like this but you make me turn on my good side .
The popular myth as portrayed by Hollywood is that Chinese men are not cool. Guess who are cool..the Italians who have 8 million drug addicts. Especially in this economic situation, many white men had been on top.. spoiled, living beyond means. Responsibility is out of the window(unlike women who have children to take care of, are by nature more nurturing). Many of them are in financial troubles, on drugs, scraping by and taking advantage of people who are closest to them, frequently the white women. The Chinese men are usually more financial responsible or less “cool”, driven. Retain have family morals, and take care of business. When a white women experienced in both worlds, Guess who is she going to prefer.
Wow ! This is a surprising read !
I’m neither Western nor Chinese , but I’ve always been convinced that there are MANY Western women/ Asian men pairing , maybe more that any other pair as far as Western women are concerned.
I mean, While travelling I’ve seen tons of Asian men (Chinese, Japanese, Korean ,Taiwanese …etc) with western women. I know so many Australian and Kiwi ladies with Asian husbands. There are lots of celebrities who have as Asian father and a Western mother. So how can this be so rare ?!
Could it be that you compare them to the White man/Asian female ? but this pair usually doesn’t end in marriage and is more for “fun” – to put it politely – . White men often pick those girls to love’em and leave’em , While Western Woman/Asian man usually have a very stable marriage. Or that’s what I noticed anyway.
One last thing : the Western women with Asian men I’ve seen are extremely HOT .. Those Asians are lucky, aren’t they ?! 🙂
WOW! wonderful article (?)
I’m actually jealous aha. My long distant boyfriend is from China and I’m from Japan (I’m Japanese and part European) and we are having problems with the long distant thing. He says he really wants me to be his wife and I really want him to be my husband so we discussed about that and decided that when I go meet him in China (he would rather visit me first but the money issue is the problem), we would talk more about the future. BUT recently since I came to USA for a few months because of my school, we still have been thinking about the future but I feel like he isn’t so WOW about it anymore.. Like he changed. He knows about my terrible past while I was in USA and so I think he is worried about me which I understand but these days he’s been busy with school and doesn’t reply to me when I say I love him.. He just says “thanks” (the last time I talked to him.. which was… like 2 days ago because i’ve been busy too). I mean he still says he loves me but I just get this weird feeling. Then one of my friends from Nepal said I shouldn’t trust Chinese men because they only care about themselves and their status (which made sense a little since he did tell me a couple of times that if he marries me, he will be treated better) With that, my heart shattered because I was already lonely not talking to him. (maybe I caught my bf’s depression aha). So i’m just totally puzzled about everything and I need help lol.
Sakura Miyakawa: You obviously are a young woman. Biologically you sometimes get scared and have doubts about relationships, which are never irreversable:sometimes he is warmer and sometimes he is cooler. Do what you feel and think on the positive, and let nature/time take its course concerning your boyfriend. Panicking often makes the matter worse., creating unnecessary turbulance. If you want to generalize: The Chinese are more practical and there is a survival instinct. He will take care of himself/his family and you, if you are one of them. Status conscience makes him a good security provider and not to choose falling into a hole to do his own thing. I have come to the conclusion as humans we are, on the aggregate the same goodness. Every characteristics has its benefits and drawbacks.
My friend from California says lately he gets a lot attention from women and mostly from white women like smiling and giving him the looks ( interested in dating). I think he is tall ,good looking and he keeps up with fashion. He said all kinds of women have interest in dating him. He exercises and his physique is above avg. We still exercise since junior high. We came to the conclusion that those women were for dating reasons only. I tell him that finding a soul mate and for marriage is not easy. I’m 40 yrs old ( happily married ) and my friend is almost 40 yrs old ( taken) . Women can tell or smell you if they will show interest when they see you. At least asian men are getting more dates . More dates will not mean marriage and most people will agree with me. Yes, lots of Chinese are migrating to California. CHinese buy homes with cash ($500k to $4 mil or more). I remembered 15 yrs ago , white , black, latin women ,etc would not show much interest in Chinese/asian men in California but now it’s slowly changing. You will see 60% population who are asian students in Calif. universities although we have only 5% asian population nationwide. You will see some cities that are dominated by asian where home prices from $500k to $10 millions or more. Work on every defects that you think you and you will be suprised on how much attention you will have. You can go as far as shaving your head to be stylish :). hey it works for some men . You don’t have to believe me guys. Just do it!
Bruce
My boyfriend is a Fitness Instructor so he’s got big muscles which get a lot of stares anyway and then there is the fact we are together eating, shopping or just walking. Foreigners have their own thoughts about our relationships, maybe they make a small penis comment around me when they forget my boyfriend is chinese, but it’s the chinese people who are worse. When people find out what his job is and that it doesn’t make much money this is when they become a little shocked and offensive. They plainly tell me that a man in china who can’t provide an apartment or whose parents can’t buy us one doesn’t deserve to have a girlfriend or get married (which we plan to do). They act as though he is not a worthy part of the world and I had a co-worker who is chinese tell me that “In china, the man should provide a house and car for his wife and pay for everything even if they hate their job its better to have a job that pays lots of money.” So essentially happiness means nothing. I told him “Well isn’t he lucky I am not Chinese, so I don’t think that.” My Co-worker then suggested that perhaps my boyfriend couldn’t find a chinese wife because he didn’t have that much money and no woman would want to marry him. I was so angry but I contained myself and explained that in my country if people thought I wouldn’t marry someone I loved because they didn’t have a lot of money i would be considered a gold-digging, materialistic bitch. To add to all this, there was an old woman in the room who was waiting for her grandson who had classes in our office. For some reason my co-worker had filled her in on the details of my life and she wanted to know if my boyfriend had brothers. she asked my co-worker this not knowing I can speak chinese. i answered no to which she exclaimed how shocking it was that his parents would be ok with their son marrying a foreigner when they only had one son!
I can only shake my head sometimes at how in 5000 years this civilization can be so uncivilized.
Kiki: Don’t give up. There are misconceptions to overcome with cross national dating. But that also adds varieties and spices in life. Up to now survival is the top of the list for the Chinese. A non-ambitious person is looked down upon. There is pressure to achieve especially for men, who generally carry more responsibility. I think as the Chinese society gets more sophisticated, there are many ways of making a living and more opportunities: Hopefully people can just follow their bliss.
Hello All,
Ok, I am going to post an ad here try to find a girlfriend 🙂 (though I am not sure if this is allowed on this blog), I am a Chinese Canadian, 39 yrs old, professional engineering business consultant, I also teach music at school.
In the past I’ve worked in Asia and Europe for a few years, I treasure the good values from both eastern and western culture. Give you a simple example, Pasta & Chinese Dumpling has the same great taste to me 🙂 Anyway, I am in search of a girlfriend, a person who can share happiness and sorrow together, hopefully that leads into long term relationship, someone interested in Chinese culture; in return, I will always be true to you, to build a family together, and share our dream together, grow old together.
I am not a game player, so if you are serious person, then please feel free to drop me a line! I wish to hear from you soon, this is my new year’s wish 🙂 You can email me at: [email protected]. I will be glad to resond your message anytime. Thanks for reading my message and I wish you have a wonderful holiday.
I have a Chinese boyfriend, but he was born in raised in this country where we both live.
There aren’t a lot of differences between us, since his parents raised him openminded, but still with a lot of Chinese values. But I do see differences.
Only TRUE LOVE can eliminate all the questions on why you don’t need to explain again and again on your relationship(AM/WF, WM/AF, BW/AM ETC). Without LOVE, I feel like you only get together for your convenience!!!!!!! Compatibility is about making a person laugh everyday ( if you want to), having the same family values, seeing things on the same page( majority of things), and finally that you’re truly happy inside ( I’m not talking about a fake smile or acting like you’re happy)! If a woman can joke around with youand laughing with you whether at a social gathering or at home, or even laughing like crazy in bed that means you ‘ve really done a good job in your relationship. The main goal is to keep it like that for life. Tell me who doesn’t change in life ? I’ve changed , you’ve changed and we all can change together. Maybe this will be my last comment on this subject . In time of need, I’m always around whether we have snow, rain , or earthquake.
-Asian men are generally not interested in Caucasian women but Caucasian men love Asian women, resulting in AM/WF couples are far less popular than AF/WM couples, but
-white men used to thk because they’re so attracted to Asian women and Asian women are so desperate to marry white males, bullshit!
-From Asian ppl’s eyes whites are no differences to other non-Asians such as Latino, Arabic and Indians, don’t know why those narcissistic white men are feeling superior about.
“-From Asian ppl’s eyes whites are no differences to other non-Asians such as Latino, Arabic and Indians, don’t know why those narcissistic white men are feeling superior about.”
I would assume they probably need an ego boost mainly because there are so many white women dating/marrying black or brown men.Interesting though it seems some white men are really quick to point out how there are so many asian girls chasing after them but they seemingly avoid from mentioning about white women marrying other races.Although I do notice they often claim that only ugly or fat white women would want a non-white men.
Yes, the double standards are so obvious. They are more than happy to date, have children interracially, but oh no, it’s terrible if nonwhite men do the same with white women!
kiki also makes an interesting point when she mentions foreigners (I assume who are white) refer to the small penis stereotype. It baffles how such an assumption has stuck through the times despite the only way of proving it is to measure ALL men of ALL races genitals and averaging them out. Even the women who say they will not date Asian men join in, despite the fact they have never even talked to an Asian man, let alone bedded them. And of course there are the (mostly) white men – in Asian countries – openly denigrating Asian men. Imagine a nonwhite doing that in a white country! Like I said elsewhere, there is a drip drip effect of insidious rumour, slander and plain stereotyping that male expats seem to get away with in China.
Which brings me onto the rest of kiki’s comment. Since the 80s when China “opened up” economically it has taken a turn for the worse in pretty much every other area – socially, morally, environment etc. Chinese in China now equate modernisation with money, achievements with money, happiness with money. Prostitution has skyrocketed, as women sell their souls for… yep, money. It hurts to see this, a well established and old society based on family values become so… shallow. And that was in the space of 30 years.
The social culture in China is seriously screwed up, and I honestly don’t see it changing for the better in the short term.
Penis size? LOL. I am a Chinese gay. I have seen quite many white D1cks in shower rooms or gay sauna rooms in Guangzhou, Hongkong and Singapaore. Yes, the biggest one I saw was from Brazil. But averagely white d1cks approximately equals to asian.
Strangely I read many information about white d1cks in gay porn websites that cites many d1cks are 8″-9″ or even 10″. But in reality I seldom see such big white d1cks. I once talked to a German, and he agreed to my observation which he also noticed. He said porn stars may be above avg but not so many whites reach such long size.
A few days ago, from a website Straightguysforgayeyes, I further confirm such observation. Information of one guy is 8″, and I happened to download his clip by emule. In the clip, the girl used a soft rule to measure its length. I can clearly see that 8″ is from the head to the middle of ballsack along the bottom side of penis instead of the upper side. We know it measures shorter along the upper side, maybe only 6″ only at most for that man.
A few years ago I knew one white from US and I saw his d1ck. Yes, it’s not small, but not that large at all. However, one day he came to me asking me where he could buy extra large condom cause he might need it for a dating and he couldn’t find it in a common stores( usually in stores like 7-11 only medium size condoms are sold.). I was so curios that I was wondering in my heart “You mean I need extra large condom too??” LOL…
Don’t know how he dealt with that extra large condom, but maybe he bought it for his partner?
There are a lot of Russian women and Chinese men couples. Google it.
G’day Jocelyn, and its our pleasure to have you in our big chinese family, gud on ya!!!!
Asian men are always being deteriorate in western media and movies, it reflects the insecurity of white males(particularly those love both white women and Asian women).
In Hollywood movies, Asian men are portraited as rats, white men are portriated as good looking hero and whom the women will finally fall in love. Not only in movies, but also daily living in Western countries you as an Asian male(particularly if you’re good looking) can feel this kind of jealousy and hates from white males.
More, its common to see white men dating Asian women, but when white girls date Asian guys, racist react from white men(it doesn’t happen the other way around dunno why, probably because many still have the white race superiority thinking inside)
Its true that western media often dismiss Asian Men as less masculine/manly by their physiques and behaviors. Just because we don’t have big facial feature (noses, eyes and etc…) somehow we are viewed as less masculine??? If you listen to what western women say about dating Asian men, its often that Asian men are not as masculine looking as the western men. Its also true that a lot of Asian women believe in this….Resulting in many AF/WM couplings!
IMHO this is bull. But stereotypes die hard!
Also Asian men are simply not interested in dating/marrying western women because they are more conservative and are intimidated by independent women! I do believe this because a lot of Asian guys that I know are pretty relieved in their demeanor and don’t date outside their race.
It’s nice to see the other side of the coin for a change. No matter male or female, there is quite a lot of negative stereotypes surrounding the ‘Chinese/non-Chinese’ relationships.
Relationships with a native Chinese will never exactly be easy, no matter what. But I can understand a western woman with a Chinese male might find the whole thing particularly hard.
It always comes down to other peoples thoughts and opinions, and having to deal with the everyday ‘looks’ when you are both going about minding your own business, not to mention the usual form of ridiculous questions.
Ya know, I’ve gone on dates with many Chinese men – countryside locals, ABC’s, FU ER DAI, GUAN ER DAI and the wealthy ones, guys from the cities and guys from the countryside, whatever. Of course most of the time, only reason they were initially interested is because of my skin. Of course I can see through this and will wait for something more meaninful. I’ve had Chinese men blatantly tel me that they “dont like Chinese women because they only like money, bla bla,” and I must say that white girls, black girls, and any girl likes this. My most serious boyfriend was Ivy educated and his white-girl and foreign-girl jokes and little fantasies became so unnerving and disgusting that I had to end things with him. Of course, he was going out to date whatever white girl he could find after me, as well. I know there are sweet, genuine guys out there and that there are insincere ones, but, in terms of dating Chinese men in China, please do stay away from those who obsess over angelic white creatures. The locals were polite and curious, but I would never recommend a foreign girl developing a relationship with an unexposed local unless you’re prepared to tackle a realm of hurdles, and if you too are unexposed, then maybe you would be a good match. What matters is your personalities, education and backgrounds. All parties of whatever skin color should gain awareness and understanding and can henceforth start a meaningful relationship.
Getting down to it, regardless of your background, you must try remain competitive in term of looks, health, mannerism, wealth to remain in the game. Of course, there are misconceptions especially of white girls and Asian men, because of historic reasons and in time that will change. If somebody does not like you, may be there are things you should try harder to improve: Are you physically not in shape, character defects, or mentally closed? If other people’s misconceptions can make you try harder to excel, that in itself may not be a bad thing. I personally believe venture to a different culture is adventurous and add spices in life, but it may not be comfortable at all times.
I have recently started dating a guy from Taiwan. I think he is great person although I wasn’t so sure at first. I am a born and bred Texan raised with very southern morals and beliefs. My family is very old fashioned and although they aren’t prejudice, they don’t jump at the idea of someone in our family dating outside our race. I was very blessed to travel to Asia for the Marine Corps and lived in Okinawa, Japan for a year and a half. I loved the experience, culture, people, and the food. After a marriage of 6 1/2 years, a divorce and horrible dating experiences with my “typical” kind of guy (tall, Caucasian, and country), and after much persistence from my friends, I signed up for an online dating service. This is where I met my boyfriend. He is from Taiwan and came to the US when he was about 6 years old. He is very Americanized although his parents are not. I was worried about my family not accepting him and us being together, but so far everyone seems happy. It is nice to know that as long as he treats me well and that I am happy, they approve of us being together. They were a little nervous about it at first, as was I, but after some time of really getting to know each other I couldn’t be happier. I just met his parents this past weekend, and I can honestly say I have never been more nervous in my life. Their English was broken and sometimes hard to understand but they did try to talk to me as much as they could. There was quite a bit of Mandarin spoken, and my boyfriend often had to translate, but I am used to that type of atmosphere. With every relationship there are trials and struggles and so I look at ours with an open mind and accept the challenges. I know that if we choose to have long term relationship with marriage and kids, I will need to invest in learning Mandarin (hello Rosetta Stone). But I am actually excited about it, and I think his parents will greatly appreciate me “trying” to learn their language and culture. It is hard walking around Texas and getting weird looks and glances, but I just look over it and move on. I am happy and we are happy and that is what matters most in life. He is a great person and I have learned some valuable lessons through out everything which have only made me a better person.
i am 18 and my chinese boyfriend is 26, yes i know that is a big age gap but i love him very much. i have been with him for 3 years but he has been gone for work for most of those years and it is currently long distence, well, my boyfriend has been asking me to marry him and give him children, i try to explaine that i am too young to be married at the moment but he dose not seem to understand why i keep refusing, his family has given him the OK and my mother loved him so she says its ok but i want him to understand that i am serious about my future and im afraid to get married at such a young age. why dose he want me to marry him so badly and what should i do???
@miarose, for many Chinese, 25-30 years is a time when they are very worried about getting married and starting a family; these years are kind of an expiration date for them so to speak. They get a lot of social pressure from family/friends to start settling down, so I think this is why your boyfriend is pressuring you to get married. For additional perspective on this, see my post about my husband’s concerns about being over 30 and still a student.
That he wants to marry you when you’re so young and still not through college yet makes me think that his family lives in China’s countryside — as that’s where you would most likely see a couple like yourself getting married; nowadays in the cities, most women will have gone through college before marriage. I know that for my husband, whose family is in the countryside, sometimes not everyone in his family understands the value of the education he is receiving here in the US and even think it a waste of time. Perhaps you need to be clearer about the positives of delaying a step like marriage for you — such as you getting a better career that could positively impact your future family? He may not truly understand why “too young” is a problem in this case. That’s my thought. Others?
These types of relationships are not as rare as you think. Relatively rare in China. The biggest population is in the entertainment and artistic circles in China. Those men are more individualistic. Maybe that is why.
I do not think confidence is the main thing. Dating is a more practical matter in China. Chinese men are in a tournament since they are born – right time to go to school, time for college, time to marry and time for kid. They can’t afford to lose one round, otherwise life is ruined. With this mindset, few that fits the good Chinese boy profiles would venture to invest enough time and energy in a very different relationship. Since most western women come to China are relatively educated and sophisticated, your dating population in China is quite small given the reasons above. Also, Chinese guys who opt out of the Chinese tournament pair with western girls more often – the artistic, bohemian types or the “losers”.
Essentially it is the paradox. Chinese guys (like all other ones) think improving social economic status can help them in dating, but this in reality goes against dating western women.
To open to date western women you need to be less “traditional”. It is a lot harder in China than in the west.
Also, anyone who ever read or watch movie “Sense and Sensibility” knows how dating used to work in 19 century England. Chinese society is living in the past.
In America, you can click on any websites , you will find tons and tons of western men seeking/hunting/looking for asian women for dating, relationship, one night stand , fwb ( sex with benefits) etc. Why asian men or chinese men don’t seek western women out ? I think you know the answer already. Chinese men see things in a different way. Like you guys said we are practical. Is playing around ( not serious) the right word to use? We are just driven in another fields but not in chasing women I guess. It’s not easy being a Chinese man. You always have to deal with family issues, parents issues and career issues. This kind of pressure is overwhelming for most Chinese men. Even in America, you have to support your brother’s college tuitition etc etc. You are lucky if you have time for dating or courting women. To tell you the truth, in order to chase a woman you need time and your mind has to be freed of distractions from all sources period. We can’t break away from those responsibilities and that’s the problem. It’s like you’re in a “black hole” in space that you can never ever break away. Being too traditional, you will never get a woman including western woman. Women feel like you’re freaking boring, not adventrous. During a conversation, enlighten her with your personalities and make her excited. Entertain her with your ideas and maybe that will put your foot in the door first. Making her feel good about you is the key and slowly the attractions and love will come. Remember women tend to compare things including comparing you with other men. Now you know why some of you lost to other men?Let me tell you something here that nobody tells you. When she accepts you as her man, the work is endless. There are lots of issues you have to solve together. No relationships are immuned to problems. Work at it my friend.
Bruce
I think you need to look at the sample size. Let’s suppose 6% Asians in America and half are men (3%). Out of those, even less are second generation or beyond. First generation immigrants, emigrated during adulthood, has very low percentage to marry local population. Statistically speaking your population size is quite small already.
I agree the culture barrier is also much higher for Asian males. On the other hand, the ones who do marry outside (predominately with whites) tend to have long and stable relationships as a result. On average, they are a lot more educated too.
There are not so many Asian male “players”, not many tall and masculine ones to be physically compatible with female of non-Asians.
All factors contribute to the rarity.
The irony is that being Asian hurts you if you want to be popular and helps you if you want to develop deeper relationships. Nobody says it is easy to have it all.
Take your pick.
[this comment has been removed because it contained hateful and/or racist generalizations]
To bad you dont want western women because we are to ….experienced….
@Dan
That is implying that proportionately there are more… far more – white “players” than asian, since the asian female-white male type is so common. But if you look at such couples, a huge proportion of them (both in the west and in the east) are of an old/fat/bald/loser esque guy (you know the type when you see them) – the sort who can never be a player.
So this implies that “non” players from the west consider asian women when they have failed “the western way” – to them, asian women are easy and not attracted to the player type, rather than white men having more “game” compared to asian men.
@ Jeff
To me, “game” is the ability to attract the opposite sex. Asian men are losing out on these fronts despite other qualities in the west. I never consider those odd parings you mentioned to be the norm.
Asia is a somewhat different story. Also, remember lots of old Chinese guys used to have young wives in the old days? Some of them still do today (er nai). Just don’t get rich or have a higher social status.
@Dan
I suppose it differs on location, but around here it’s 70-30 the old white man/asian woman relationship i.e. mail order bride. Even if not the majoirty they make up a significant enough bunch to skew the figures… would like to know what the difference in white/asian relationships between sexes would be if we disregarded these “old man” buying a trophy bride couples.
@ Norway
I think what you said is one of the “challenges”. Asians tend to have more practical views on dating. Many think the western way is mostly fooling around. But the attitude is also changing for younger generations. Any stereotype will have some negative impacts.
@Jeff
The fact you see Asian man with non-Asian woman paring a lot less makes the relationship relatively rare. If the paring you refer to is so common, that certainly won’t help to improve the other ratio.
I am sure certain areas of California and Hawaii will tell different stories. I doubt you can single out the demographics of your interests. Any study of that nature is also political incorrect.
Maybe asian women are the best kept secret nowadays!! 🙂 . Yes, western men assume asian women will take good care of them and some do! Why there are so many old , white men pairing with asian women? Maybe those men went through so much with their previous marriages that now they wanted something calm and quiet. In asian culture , women are taught differently than the west. I can stand a loud woman because I’m loud myself!!!! It just depends on a person. Some women want challenging men even if those men make them cried. Seriously, most women won’t see eye to eye with you if you’re just too quiet and relax. Always let her know that you’re a kind hearted person and calm but let her know also that you can be a tough person when the situation is called for . Who doesn’t want to be this sweet and nice guy , really? But this nice and sweet guy can be unstoppable if things go wrong. I’m saying from a Chinese male ‘s point of view. The Chinese/asian men I know personally are tough, masculine,smart and hardworking so I understand the real problems we are facing. These guys have lots of hobbies/sports going on continuously all the time . Most Chinese / asian men do want a western gfs/ wives but the culture keeps on pulling them back. I mean their lifestyle is different.. Unless you have a wonderful western woman who will understand the differences and continue to work everything out with you then it’s a match in heaven. Then again what is the odd that you will meet someone like that? Most chinese men want women who won’t give up on them. Is that practical enough? I’m a practical person so I’m asking you!
Bruce ” no task is easy”
@Bruce
That’s another key difference. There is a direct correlation between men of other races hooking up with and the “resistance” of … like in your case, you are speaking from a chinese man’s point of view – yet you seem so placid, even joyful, at the mention of old white men hooking up with young asian women. If one of those were your daughter, would you be pleased? No man of any race I know would be furious, many would actually turn to violence. Father’s perogative.
The same applies to asian men… many are afraid of entering relationships with women of other races because their male counterpart is always there to resist, fight in necessary. Whereas on my recent visit to China I didn’t see a single Chinese male outraged or even remotely hostile that an out of place old white man was with a young chinese girl. Hot blooded young men just don’t react like that.
You have to know that it’s NORMAL in asian culture to have a wife 10, 12 or even 20 or 25 yrs younger than the men. I don’t have to go into details but you know why already. It’s acceptable to have older men in asian culture “usually”. In western culture…. you will see those couples but rarely … I’m 40 + yrs old but I feel like I’m 25 … still in shape and act like a kid at times 🙂
@ Jeff
If the kind of protection you were referring to include incidents in deep south where an indecent glance of white female can mean death to blacks, I say Asians are doing ok so far. I don’t think people are accepting as it is. A lot of passive aggressive attitudes do exist among Asians. What is missing is the kind of activism seen in other groups. I do believe it has something to do with the culture. Also, who will voice their opinions so willingly if you can be shot by your government?
It is also common believe Asian guys do not treat their women well. Once you get to know the history, all people see is how women were repressed for thousands of years.
@Bruce
Fair enough, but is it normal for a WHITE old man to be with a young CHINESE woman? Here in the west such couples of the same race are passed of as gold diggers. But we’re not talking just age, but race too. Even with similarly aged couples of different races, like I said before there is resistance from the local men, something I fail to see in the Chinese. It’s not about relative size because I hear of stories now and again of groups of white men cornering an asian (as in south) or black who is dating a white girl. Not common, but it crops up a few times a year. Are there stories of white men (young and old) beaten up and harassed racially from local Chinese men?
@Dan
Your comment about a Chinese being shot by their government for voicing an opinion on their own men being childless whilst white foreigners are taking their women at their expense just shows how western media can shape the opinions of people. State shootings happen in countries like Russia, India and Brazil and of course various African and Middle Eastern nations… but there IS a court of law (impartial or not) in China where due process applies. And I seriously doubt an American born Asian will be shot by a government halfway round the world. Same goes for other East asians (Japanese, Koreans), yet the passive-aggressive stance (as opposed to aggressive aggressive) is prevalent amongst these communities too.
Like you said, that difference is all it takes to hinder an asian (or whoever) from dating that race…I know a few guys who go to east asia because the girls are “easy” there… and this is due in part to the lack of resistance put up by the men.
ALso, again with the stereotyping. If it’s not media it’s just “common belief”. Did you ask everyone? Has there ever been a survey done? Or is it just from YOUR preconceptions? I’m sure many have those with black men, but that doesn’t stop white women dating and marrying them. As for history, well…I’m sure asian women love white men based on their activities abroad (invasion, rape and pillage) in recent times. In fact I remember a documentary about Vietnam, you’d think after the massacres and tales of rape the women there would despise American men…. yet Vietnamese women are one such group who just love American men long time…
@ Jeff
Here is a book -http://www.amazon.com/Why-Black-Love-White-Women/dp/B0064X9RXI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343846047&sr=8-1&keywords=why+black+men+love+white+women
Jeff,
The women in South Vietnam you are talking about..but women in the North Vietnam I don’t know. As a nation, people just hate you for your agenda not about hating you personally.
[this comment has been removed because it contained hateful/racist remarks]
@ Roger
Enlighten me what a big penis actually do with a smaller brain? Mine is fine, probably smaller than yours. I never feel threatened by anyone else’. I heard the theory before – intelligence and the size down there is correlated. According to the theory, whites are just right. Black is dumb, but have something else to compensate for. Asians are smart with shortcomings.
It is not that I can’t get over the fact. Can you?
Just sit there with your big dick and everything will be fine okay! You mean all the relationships and marriages out there don’t work out becasue of not having a big dick or a bigger dick? Same thing like flat chested women are not desirable. No men will love or marry flat chested women? You are an idiot if you think like this. Here is a scenerio :
1) I just met a really wonderful man ( regardless of race). He is everything I want in a man except his dick is 6″ to 6.25″ avg . He is caring and has a heart of gold. He is my dream man but 6″ dick.
2) I just met a guy ( regardless of race). He is okay . not caring just whatever .he has a 7.5″ to 9 ” dick.BIG AND THICK!!
If you a woman ( regardless of race), which man will you pick or stay with? If you only focus on sex only and not substance. Let’s change to another subject. My answer: Man #1 is the right choice. women need to feel good in many ways not just down there. It’s like a man only goes out with her because she has big breasts ( and that’s it). To a man’s point of view , wow she is sexual and sexy but to her… it’s a lot of pain carrying all that weight.. backache.unwanted attention. just not comfortible at all.. Not everything is based on sex , body parts and sexuality. Ask a woman and she will tell you ,sir.
@jocelyn…..ur comments are very helpful indeed, it does open up a whole load of new and insightful ideas into white women….who they really are i mean…..instead of stereotypin them, at d end of d day it ol boils down to who u r……nyways those articles written by u will encourage many mongoloidal asians too be a man when it comes to their woman……love her with ol ur heart body mind n soul just as God loves u its that simple…..im an indian from the north eastern part of india n we look like chinese….we r treated like foreigners here in our own country india…yah dats wierd…..n sick at times too….but u know what……i am on my journey to find meself a white girl…..for my life
As a Chinese Canadian, having been born in Taiwan and moved to Canada at the age of 4, I’ve dated Chinese Canadians, Taiwanese from Taiwan, who have never left the country, and Caucasians from Canada and the US. Although I’m bilingual, my cultural values, personality and interests are much more closely aligned to the Western culture than to the East. So I’m curious as to how Caucasian WOMEN, who have grown up in the West with little contact with Chinese people deal with men who are born and bred in China, Taiwan, HK. I’m talking beyond the language barrier, but more the balance of power, the need for Westernized women to be more independent, and so on?
I’m a Chinese guy and currently I’m living in Canada. I was born in China and I immigrated to Canada several years ago. I’d like to share my opinion about the interracial relationship between foreign women and Chinese men. There are many reasons which could explain the rarity of Chinese men/foreign women couples, and I just want to talk about a few important ones here.
First and foremost, there is a linguistic barrier. Chinese and English are two completely different languages, and it’s hard for the Chinese men as well as the foreign women to overcome this language barrier. A successful relationship is based on mutual understanding, and this understanding is inevitably resulted from communication. I couldn’t imagine how a relationship would proceed without communication. The language barrier hinders effective communications between Chinese men and foreign women. And of course, this problem is only relevant to the Chinese men who were born and raised in China. It isn’t an issue for those ABC (American Born Chinese) men.
Secondly, Chinese men and foreign women might have negative stereotypes or prejudices towards one another. Those misconceptions might have resulted from films, news, or other forms of media. American media often portrays Asian men as unattractive geeks, book worms, nerds, or emasculated weaklings. And vice versa, some Chinese media portray foreign women as sluts or nymphets.
Thirdly, I find that many Chinese men seem to have some difficulties about interacting with women. They don’t know how to start a conversation, they are reluctant to make the first move, and they don’t know how to entertain women. Sometimes, they become very nervous and shy at the sight of a foreign woman. In other words, they lack confidence and they are afraid of rejection. Apparently, foreign men are more skillful when dealing with women, and that’s probably one of the reasons why many Chinese women are fallen for foreigners.
This type of discussion is getting old. It draws interests because disparities – more Asian females marry out than males. In the end, most people stick within their own cultures and races, easier that way. Unless you have common ground built up, like the one in USA after assimilation among immigrants, people will marry within themselves.
The other side of the story is that many Asian girls think they will attract western guys with no problem. You can find a foreign woman if you really want to, but not Mrs. Right.
Hello,
My name is Brianna and I met my current best friend at a Christian University. He is Chinese and His parents have been praying for him to find a girl with a heart for East Asia that is Christian and Caucasian. So that we could build a bridge between America and China. He has also lived in the US for 5 years. Of course I am Caucasian and I am in love with East Asia and feel called to serve as a missionary there. However the problem is not His parents, which is strange, it is mine, because they hate the idea of me marrying someone from another culture. They do not want me leaving the country for the rest of my life. Even though my “Best Friend”– we are waiting to date, because we do not want to make the mistake many couples make of dating so fast– plans to not stay in one country and plans to come back to America . My parents say they will never accept it unless I live in East Asia alone for 1-2 years to see if I like it. Which is already the plan. We both really like each other and do not know where to go from here.
If you are serious about a relationship with someone from China, spending time in his country benefits the relationship. If your reason for going is because of him, why can’t you date at the same time? Missionary work in China could be quite difficult. I am not sure how that is operated. Some foreigners in all professions, mostly women, can’t deal with the country and leave after a while. Many parents won’t be happy to see their children live far away. Why not try some short term engagement first? I am confused about refraining from dating. If you can’t make it work in the states, let alone Asia. Plenty of people stay friends after break up too.
I think most such couples end up living in US permanently. Many move back when they want to have children.
I am an American woman who is engaged to a Chinese man. We are in a long distant relationship while I finish university in the United States. We see each other once a year in the summer and it gets a little depressing at times. When he and I first started dating he was insecure about everything. He did not believe that I could actually be interested in him. He did not believe me when I said that I like men my height or shorter (176 cm and below). He also did not believe that I did not care about how much money he makes. It took a lot of convincing that I was true to him and only him, but even now he is afraid that I will find another man who has more money or is better looking than him and leave him. Now while his parents aren’t exactly supportive of our relationship, they are certainly not against it. There are some language barriers as I am still learning Chinese and he is still learning English, but we typically have had no problem communicating. I have always dated Asian men and while the AM/WF pairing did cause unwanted attention in the US it is nothing compared to China. I do not think that Chinese people are used to seeing women who are 176 cm with snow white skin, light brown/red hair, and green eyes in China and they certainly aren’t used to seeing her paired with a Chinese man walking down the street. I love my future husband and I am looking forward to becoming a member of his family.
@Brianna
I don’t see why your parents should dictate how things should be, obviously you are both going your own route but judging from your post it seems your parents still have a signficant influence over you. As you are both adults you should carve your own path together, as a couple… your parents will accept that sooner or later.
Also beware…” hating the idea of marrying someone from another culture” is code for hating someone for marrying a different race. I have come across this far too often, only when the parents realise I am actually from the same culture that their guise is revealed.
@The future Mrs. Chen
This is what I don’t get, the disparity in acceptance of couples depending on who’s who and from which race i.e. white men with asian women are pretty much the norm in America – and shockingly, even in the East. I say shockingly – try being a non (insert country here) man dating a local girl in South Asia, Africa, Europe, America…. there will be resistance and hatred from the local men. Whereas in China they seem rather accepting of such couples, which in a country where the male-female ratio is badly imbalanced, you would think they would be a bit more loco.
@CarlosByam
Your language barrier theory is sound, until you realise that many white men (I say white because you have bizarre cases of German men speaking English to woo a Korean woman, for example) have no issue with the language barrier…. I’ve always thought having a decent conversation was one of the basics of a relationship, interracial or not, but all too often I see white males easily entering relationships with asian women who can only speak her own language.
@BBC
I do find it is common sentiment from people who are born oversees to point out white men’ fortunes when things don’t work. Many reasons are justified. They do not only happen to Asians. For a white female to enter into this type of relationships, it is common to deal with problems within her race too. She might be asked about your ability in bed and confront other stereotypes. More often, when a white female confess she finds Asians attractive, some white males would jump out to say something stupid. My point is that we can borrow some of that European chauvinism.
I also find Chinese accept mixed couples more willing comparing to some other places. It probably has something to do with the “middle kingdom” mentality. In a bigger country with so many people, you can care less about sharing certain things. Chinese struggle for cohesion throughout history, but China never develops a certain attitude you see in Korea for national unity. They might worship Chairman Mao as national hero, but most don’t believe we are better than you because we are Chinese.
Communism and cultural revolution also changed China. I would argue urban China has better gender equalities than many other Asian countries.
My last point is regarding to inferior complex. That was one of the legacy of colonialism. I found China had a more open attitudes about discussing these in the past. Also, China was not fully colonized, which is a good thing. I don’t want to bash other people. But inferior complex is far worse among Koreans in general. A lot of Chinese, like Americans, can overlook certain things simply because they think they can.
I am a biased person who has roots in mainland China.
@askdsk
Yes, white women do get to hear negative comments about her choice to date Asian men. If I hear one more time about how they are short, have small penises, are controlling, beat their wives, ect. I am going to lose it. I do not mean to bash my own culture, but people from America or the West in general can be so rude and ignorant. I’m not going to lie, it took my family a while to come around and accept the fact that I date Asian men, but now that they have come around they are eagerly awaiting the soon to come mixed children. I am just not interested in men of other races. They could not understand why I was not attracted to white men and most people who know I am attracted to Asian men do not understand it. White men do not get nearly as many comments when they have a preference for Asian women because they are considered “exotic beauties”. There is a big double standard in the acceptance of Asian and Caucasian relationships.
Right. Many people see Asian women are as submissive and better wife materials, also exotic. I have to say there is truth to that with Asian upbringing. The problem is that it does hurt real relationships.
Independence does give people confidence to navigate the world.
A middle class white girl might have much broader take on life in general. Something you won’t find in a regular Asian girl. People need to decide what they want to have. Did I mention western humor? Love that one.
@The future Mrs. Chen
When you encounter such characters, maybe you should ask them why they can’t understand your attraction to asian men as opposed to say, a black or latino man?
Because it’s not just the disparity of treatment and perceptions between Asian male-white female and asian female-white male…. but also of asian male-white female compared to other interracial relationships. For example, you come across a black man-white woman couple – there is no such “aren’t you attracted to white men” or “they are ” comments…. where I am from, there are also an increasing number of South Asian (Indian, Pakistani) men with white women – and, even with the whole “terrorism” thing going about, there isn’t this sort of insidious backstabbing when white men talk to white women about their choice of men…. whereas with east asian men they feel free to let rip. Maybe it’s to do with the lack of “resistance” from asian men? As in, they (in general) don’t look the sort to put up a fight or argument, compared to men of other races, so white men feel more at ease in questioning such couples openly.
Either way, it does drive previously good relationships apart. I was with a white girl for a couple of years, we lusted and loved each other in equal measures, and pretty much had everything (bar race) in common. What drove us apart was social factors. Her friends could not accept such a racial pairing…it simply “shouldn’t be” from their view. Ironically, one of her friends was going out with a black guy, and no-one said anything negative about that. But with me, and in the presence of me, I got all the stereotypical comments you can imagine, and alone with her friends, she frequently mentioned the drip drip effect of “why are you with him” style remarks. It eventually got to her, created doubt where there previously was none….
I honestly don’t understand why western society puts us at odds with white women…because we’re short? Except the tall ones. And there are short white men with white women. Or because we have small penises – oh wait, they wouldn’t know, since they’ve never seen an asian man naked before. They probably haven’t even spoken to an asian man before. But similar negative assumptions can be made of other races…. what I would really like to know is why white men hesitate with them, but not with us in the denigrating.
@BBC,
You should have confronted your ex gf’s friends. I’m F…… serious! Tell those ass….. to mind their own business. This is personal affair. Never ever let outsiders tell you and your gf/wife what your relationship should or should not be. They can’t even take care of themselves . How can they have authority over your lives? Only way to get them back is to have a happy relationship and prosper for yrs, then they will be defeated.
@ The future Mrs Chen,
Yes it’s a double standard. Look around you with wmaw couples. You just have to stand your ground! “Some” women are 2 times bigger than their men ,too. So what? Let me tell you something here that Chinese /Asian men are more capable of doing something detailed and complicated. I just feel asian/chinese men are more responsible men. We are extremely hard working. Well, do you see alot of asian people on vacation? there you go! Who said that we are short and skinny? I’m flexing my pythons ( biceps) while typing here.
@ BBC
That sucks. It does not matter how long it is, but how good it is. Better luck next time.
Black men are more manly by perception. Most of them are quite fun to be around. They have high achievements in politics, sports, media and entertainment. When more Asians can go into these high exposure areas, the tide will switch. I am going to say something not political correct. Slavery is original sin. People also feel guilty sometimes.
You in UK? I don’t know if South Asian’s dating scene is all rosy. It might be a population factor.
You can’t change your height. But you can change other things if you think that is the problem. Cheers!
@Bruce
I did, it shut them up for a while. But it was a long term relationship, they were her primary circle of friends… she eventually cracked.
@askdsk
Yeah in UK, hence BBC (it doesn’t stand for what you think 😉 ).
I can see where the “black men are more manly” perception comes from… you see a lot of big guys, and even the small ones act tough, whereas not as many big asians and the small ones act pretty demure and withdrawn. But then you go onto to fun factor, an again it follows on with other stereotypes – they’re just assumptions. Assumptions that many times are not real, just taken for granted. Yet ironically, all the positive stereotypes of black men are thought of re: interracial dating, whilst it seems only negative ones come out when it comes to us dating.
And you mention the high achievements in sports, showbiz…. why should that dictate what is a “good catch”? 50 years ago the dream man was described as hard working, reliable, a good husband and a father who cared for his children. Academia (which is something asians – stereotypically – excel in) was a plus point, not something to be ashamed of.
Nowadays the promiscuous, looking for a fight, abusive to their kids and partner, drunk hooligans are the desirable ones – at least, the ones who seem to always be in a relationship. Whilst celeb and fame culture, bravado and sports has taken precedence over intelligence, long lasting values and responsibility. What’s changed?
@BBC
Don’t take what I said too seriously. I am analyzing a few things. Those are common factors other people would bring out.
You won’t need to be better than so and so. Just try to be best version of yourself. Women will be asking for your name. 🙂
@BBC
The problem is that AM/XF couples are not that common yet. We tend to forget that every interracial pairing went through this in the beginning. It’s just something new and people need to get used to it, but the only way that is going to happen is if people don’t do what your ex did. Have I been pressured by friends and family to date my own race? Hell yes! But it is my life and I am going to do what makes me happy. They were her close friends, but if they were really her friends they would have supported her in the relationship even if they did not agree with it. Being a woman who dates Asian men can be lonely sometimes. NONE of my female friends find Asian men even slightly attractive so when I am out with them they are all checking out the white/black/hispanic men. They will point out a white guy to me and say something like “Look at how tall and muscular he is. How can you not find that attractive?” and my answer is always the same; “Because I just don’t.”. I don’t point out a man who looks like one of the members of Super Junior or Big Bang and ask them how they can’t find them attractive. People will try to change your preference. You just have to stick it out.
@Bruce
I have to agree that Asian men are typically harder working. They have goals and they make sure they meet them. I also find Asians to be more pleasant to be around. Asian men seem to actually respect the woman they are with and they want to take care of her. Now I am not one to want to be taken care of, but I appreciate the fact that my fiance wants to do things for me. Asians have better family values too, they are closer with their children and they know how to raise them. They don’t do all of this hands-off parenting crap. I date Asian men because I find them attractive, but also for the fact that I know there will more than likely be a better home environment when I have a family. Oh and when Asian men do get muscular they tend to carry that muscle better than other races. Nothing is sexier than an Asian man with some muscular definition.
@ BBC
You might like to read Diane Farr’s book -Kissing Outside the Lines: A True Story of Love and Race and Happily Ever After.
@The future Mrs. Chen
I hope you are not implying we are all geeks. You certainly made Bruce’s day. Sorry man.
I am curious how you see the future. It looks like you are going to China. I agree with comments about BBC’s ex-girl’s friends. That does bring a point that you could lose your existing relationships. For us men, that happens too. You suddenly becomes a minority-minority. But you do what makes you happy at the end.
@askdsk
Of course not. I am just speaking in general terms. It does not apply to all Asians.
Yes, I am going to be moving to China in the next few years. I am sure that people have lost relationships with friends over things like this, but if they cannot support you maybe they are not the friends you need. It is your life, you should not live it trying to make others happy.
@ The future Mrs. Chen
Don’t lose that American thinking. You need it down the road in China too.
I LOVE IT!! 🙂 .
@ The future Mrs Chen,
Don’t let your gfs change your preference.”Now I am not one to want to be taken care of, but I appreciate the fact that my fiance wants to do things for me.” — It’s in our family upbringings. It’s hard to get rip of that idea but you can take care of your bf also. Do you mind taking care of your bf/husband? In our families, we take care of each other. It’s not a one way street. My mom took care of my dad when he was sick and everything in the past .
“Asians have better family values too, they are closer with their children and they know how to raise them.”— Asians always focus on family values and yes we are closer to our children. We always worry about our kids’ well beings until they’re 65 yrs old. True!!Yes we always teach our kids respect . Our goal is to show you respect FIRST . Most white/black/hispanic men don’t have respect at all like we owe them a million dollars! They are tall and muscular but lazy like hell 🙂 but if you’re tall and muscular , respectful and hardworking , now that’s another story. Oh yeah ? Asian men carry muscles better than other men huh? Then I have to pose some more then :). Seriously, if I was a woman and I only look for height and muscular body then I could be a very naive( stupid) person.
Finding someone attractive is just like foods. Some people like to eat cheesy, creamy dishes. I like spicy foods that can burn your ass. I like everything in a woman with family values, humorous, sacrastic, respectful etc. Don’t assume a tall, beautiful woman will be the same on the inside out.
“NONE of my female friends find Asian men even slightly attractive so when I am out with them they are all checking out the white/black/hispanic men. They will point out a white guy to me and say something like “Look at how tall and muscular he is. How can you not find that attractive?”
See, this is the problem I was hinting at. They point out the other races, as if there are no short/skinny/ugly whites/lacks/latinos. So obviously they discount the latter because of certain attributes – but they are discounting our ENTIRE race! Major difference there.
Bruce, I think you’re a psycho!!
re:your cheesy and creamy foods comparison, that is
@BBC
Stereotypes hurt people. But we need to look beyond those and not to internalize them.
By scientific definition, we are all from Africa. Race is socially constructed, not a real thing. Very few people look at the world this way. White females probably are perceived to be the most attractive globally. What if Asians are the ones to start all the colonies in the world? No simple answers.
Live your life ,and your actions will change reality.
Besides, we all compare different girls, right?
@BBC,
🙂 Yes I’m psycho hahahaha. That’s why you have to educate those idiots that there are tall and short people in every race. sooner or later they will find out.
@Bruce
Let’s not shoot the wrong target. Deeply, many people always have this little race thing on the back of their head. Sure we can learn to deny or ignore it too. Most interracial relationships subject to pressures you won’t be able to have otherwise. In China, race is not really a discussion. It is more of a cultural fit and differences due to upbringing. I can totally see BBC’s point.
Why do we want to date people who seem so different? We all want to have some connections go deeper. If it is just physical thing, strip clubs and escorts would do. As for myself, I won’t be able to go back to an Asian girl so easily because you know you will miss something. People who rise above these challenges learn how to live with them. It is not even a mentality thing, just a focus on what is important to yourself.
Also, this concept that Asian cares about family value is over played. White and black don’t? Asians might be under more pressure to stay together. There are always difficulties in relationships. Men walk out all the time too. Once you have a job to support your own feet, you can learn to live alone. Asians are taught to endure, and it often works too. Because we think relationship failure is shameful, we also blame ourselves more.
“Also beware…” hating the idea of marrying someone from another culture” is code for hating someone for marrying a different race.”
Unfortunately among many white evangelicals this is very true even among white evangelicals living in Asia. In most cases, this is couched in the following advise to the daughter or son: “his or her talent is needed in the country as he is educated, so it is not good to marry someone from this poor country and cause a drain on the country’s talent base.” In 2010, happened to a Singaporean Chinese evangelical guy in who was dating a white Christian woman. However, when she said she was staying on in Singapore after getting married, the cat was out of the bag! The real reason…culture and yes, skin color. Actually there are some mormons who say this thing even today. But, among the white American evangelicals in the US south this attitude is very common…
http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctpolitics/2011/06/opposition_to_i.html
Actually this is one big similarity in the views of Evangelical Christians and the high caste Hindus of India whom the evangelicals denounce as pagans and idol worshippers.
I’m Caucasian female in a relationship with a Korean man. I must say the situation is exactly as you describe it for Chinese men and Caucasian women. It makes me angry sometimes because the unfairness, but I comfort myself: their loss.
@askdsk,
I like your points, in China th race thing is about differences (communication, upbringing, education, culture,…), at least that’s the kind of questions we get.
Also agreed that the family value is overplayed, is true it has a great value but also in many other countries. I live in China and I see my family more often than some of my Chinese friends who are in a province different from their home. And if someone says is because is expensive for them .. That’s not an excuse, they do traveling very often, but not to go home, instead they go somewhere else during the free days. So is their choice.
Back home we have lunch together every Sunday, most part of the close family, in order to get together some of us need to drive 1h-2h every Sunday, but is worthy!
I think those overvalued things are part Of the list of stereotypes:
Chinese and family
All French like fashion
Italy and Berlusconi
…
But when they mean something “positive” it is somehow exploited. Family is something we should all be proud of, so I’m glad that’s the point people use to describe China.
Traditional values have become more symbolic. The old kinship cease to exist with much smaller family unit these days.
There is also the tendency to find where it can shine to defend the culture inside China. It probably does not help much when two generations live very different lives these days.
When you are abroad, you become representatives of your country and live the stereotypes. As long as they don’t define who you are, who cares.
Hello everyone! I just wanna share MY story. I am Ukrainian and i fell in love with Chinese American guy! I would never ever think in a million years it would have happened! And its quite hard because in Eastern Europe we dont have a lot of Asians and i miss some info about interacial relationships. On the other hand he lives in Los Angeles and used to it. I read this post and read some comments and realized that people like me do exist! )) Is it typical in America to see a blond girl with Asian guy? I wonder if i ever come to America how people will treat us as a couple? Personally i dont care but still curious….And by the way my boyfriend is very sporty and very smart! ))) I very much appreciate Asian culture and respect Asian people. And i just wanna encourage Asian males not to be afraid and take the first step with white women. I hate racists and argue over any negative comments, especially when they come from white people. Because some of them are so disrespectful towards others. For example like some of my friends, unfortunately…
Yes , you do exist! Only ways to fight negativity from others is to be happy and living a wonderful life with your “special” guy. Once, they see how happy your life is, they won’t say anything anymore. The secret is being happy. If you’re not happy, no relationship will work out even you have a person who looks exactly like you.
Bruce
What are my chances of finding love in Beijing??? 🙂
I will be moving to Beijing by the end of this year for business. I will be 39 and a single mom of two boys (9&5) who will be coming with me. I would probably be considered your stereotypical American girl, 5’6″ Blonde with green eyes. I work in the hospitality business and spend most my free time competing in Triathlons and marathons, so I am physically fit (the pollution problem in Beijing does have me a little worried since I enjoy running outside). After reading so many of the post for this topic and the others Jocelyn have written about, it seems most of the responders are younger than me, so I was just wanting some opinions about an older single mom having any luck. The intimidation factor that’s brought up so many times won’t be new to me, I actually have to deal with that now with American white guys. I’ve never actually dated an Asian guy, mainly because there aren’t many where I live. I have been to China over the past decade so I do have some experience with the culture and I am looking forward to living there.
Thanks
Amanda
I think there are people to date. But serious relationship is harder than US – no Chinese guy is capable of fathering your sons.
@ Ukranian Girl.
Hey Girl from the Ukrain! Can you tell us how you met your ABC in detail? Here is my story: https://www.speakingofchina.com/double-happiness/how-one-chinese-man-found-love-in-brazil/. So let us read yours. Also, stay tuned because I recently submitted a story to Jocelyn Eikenburg about my Chinese nephew with 4 American White girls.
@askdsk says:
March 11, 2013 at 1:22 pm
I think there are people to date. But serious relationship is harder than US – no Chinese guy is capable of fathering your sons.
==============
A rather veiled comment there. – “no Chinese guy is capable of fathering your sons” – well no, no man is (other than the father). I doubt she is looking for a father to her sons, rather a lover who can get on with her kids.
@BBC
Yes that would be closer to what I am looking for. Like here in the US I mainly date men that have all ready been married and have their own kids and aren’t looking to have any more of their own, but would still be able to get along with my boys.
My other concern was my age. As stated many times on this blog and from what I have read on my own with the more well known Chinese men ( Donnie Yen, Richard Li etc.) it does seem they prefer younger women no matter their age. LOL
Thanks for you opinions
@Amanda, your best bet is to try to find a divorced Chinese man, if possible. Those who have never married will usually want to choose younger women under 30 — b/c they will want to have their own children w/ her, so that they can have someone to continue the family lineage (considered filial and VERY important in Chinese culture), and b/c many Chinese think it is not ideal for women to bear children in their thirties.
A guy who is divorced and has a child of his own won’t feel the must-marry-younger pressure — and therefore would be more likely to give you a chance.
Tell your coworkers in China that you’re looking for this kind of guy. It’s not uncommon for people you know — whether friends or in the office — to act as “matchmaker” and try to set people up; many of my Chinese friends met their spouses exactly in this way.
Maybe it is not a good choice of word- should be parenting. But you will find the cultural difference involved is too challenging. Just my opinion. Also, it depends on how you define Chinese.
@Amanda
I think Chinese men (ones from China) will go easy with the age for you.
@Jocelyn
Marring younger woman is not so much a pressure. When a guy has that choice, most of them will take it rather than going into a relationship with other people’s kids. I rarely see two divorced partners enter into new relationship with kids from previous marriage in China. Unfair to women, it is.
@askdsk, thanks for your perspective, which is totally valid — so I could be wrong! But I have heard of and seen divorced partners entering into a new relationship w/ kids from a previous marriage, so it isn’t impossible.
And actually, there is a book by an American woman who is middle-aged and with children, who marries a Chinese man who is middle-aged and with a daughter. It’s called the Natural Laws of Good Luck.
@Jocelyn
I noticed that American woman has a daughter. Not sure if that is easier. That book should be interesting.
@Jocelyn
Thanks, I’ll have to look for the book
Wow, it’s really amazing and encouraging that the post is still active after 4 years and great to hear about so many happy white caucasian ladies dating/marrying Chinese guys! I recently became engaged to my Chinese guy after just under 4 years of dating and I have to say it’s been one hell of a journey, I arrived here 6 years ago with my long term British boyfriend and I can honestly say I never expected to meet a Chinese guy, to cut a long story short, we met, he pursued me and the rest is history, I can honestly say we have no problems in the bedroom or with size (not that that really matters) he’s sweet, charming, smells good, cracks me up all the time, knows how to press my buttons and how to instantly lift me from a mood, which my previous bf had no idea how to do, so I really can’t say that culture or race has anything to do with understanding one-another, I think it just naturally comes with the right people! Of course we have cultural issues all the time, which granted is harder for me just because we are currently residing in China, but with more research into the history of China I seem to be slowly grasping why some annoying things to me such as pushing and jumping a queue are not frowned upon, but then again I am British and we apologize when someone stands on our foot!
I’m also trying to put the boot on the other foot and imagine how he would feel in the UK…..will he get upset with the lack of people spitting (joke – I do not agree with spitting/hacking nor does he) but seriously there are equally bad habits in the West…possibly much worse?? Am I right?? How would I feel if he was criticizing all of them!
I firmly believe that as we move into the 21st century race is not the issue, me and my partner have a similar background with close parents, who were never poor, but who taught us the true meaning of working for things in life and to not be handed everything on a plate, which has given us a similar outlook on life and hence brought us together!
BTW: I did read something mentioned many many posts ago about adultery with Chinese guys! Although I hate to say this, it does seems very common right now, but not just with men, it’s both parties. I have friends who married young because they were forced into it, they already have a son who they rarely see and they both lead separate lives, which crazily enough is not concealed! So long as they don’t divorce, everyone seems pretty happy to just turn a blind eye! Does anyone else have a similar experience with this?
@Amanda:
If your goal is to find a lover in China, may I suggest you join a local tri/running club. There is a growing tri population in China, and they are mostly mature, educated, well-off men. You will be hot commodity among them. And, the entry fees for triathlons in China are really cheap 🙂
@centaur
That’s really great to hear! I was wandering if I should take my road bike. What about Mountain biking, is it popular?
Thanks a lot
Amanda,
You need someone who is open minded.
@Amanda,
Yes, take your road bike if the cost is not a concern. Mountain biking is impractical since the courses are far from the cities and you’ll need a car to get there. The easiest way to get plugged in is to go on the weekly runs/rides (the same thing I’d do if I’m relocating in the US). If you’re in a big city like Beijing or Shanghai, you’ll find plenty clubs to explore. Endurance athletes are a usually a cool, open, sexual, and BS-free bunch, regardless of what their race is or what language they speak. I envy you for being able to do tri’s in China — there are some sweet courses there. Too bad they discontinued IM China.
@Centaur
Thanks for all the advice, I will def. look into the groups. It is too bad about no IM’s (although I’ve only done a 1/2 IM), I’m hoping Tough Mudder or Spartan will decide to one day have an event in China.
@Amanda,
Do you live in Shanghai? If so you could try a tennis club, I see more and more people go there.
While you play you can talk and get to know each other.
@ Ukranian Girl. Here is a clip of an American man picking up a Ukranian Girl. Are girls from the Ukrain this friendly?
Try Taiwan…In my week in Taipei I saw three white women, even among the tourists, back in 2008!
i am living in shanghai ，24years old local guy. i wanna find a relationship . i am quit easy-going . feel free contact me
email : [email protected]
Where I am from, a tiny SE Asian country, the majority are Chinese. I notice the Males(of that race) have a sort of ‘superiority’ complex. Some, not all look, down on or make fun of other races, especially the darker-skinned ones.
Woe-and-behold if one of their friends happen to get a girl who is darker-skinned of another race. They will make fun of or constantly criticise that girl and their friend. Only Chinese guys who are strong enough to handle it proceed!
Even in public, especially if they are with their buddies, they will not openly admire a darker-skinned lady if they find her attractive. Why? Because their buddies will castigate them!
As a result, you find very few Chinese males here with ladies of other races. They like Eurasians and don’t mind whites though(preference for fair skin).
“Some, not all look, down on or make fun of other races, especially the darker-skinned ones.
Woe-and-behold if one of their friends happen to get a girl who is darker-skinned of another race. They will make fun of or constantly criticise that girl and their friend.”
Sorry to hear that. Sigh.
I wish Chinese like this would get to experience living in the West for a bit and be on the receiving end of the treatment they are giving. Perhaps learn a lesson from it.
I fall in love with a chinese guy, we are young.
I am mexican.
He works a lot, like all chinese men.
He works in a restaurant.
At the beginning he was very sweet, he tried to come visit me, every time he could, but with the pass of months, he stopped coming.
I really do not understand this change of attitude,so I ask him> he told me their co-workers get worried about himthey command your life, you will not going to be a good husband in future for me. you neither.
I ask him why> he said> it is a big gap between us because of language, and we do not fit together.
I felt very sad with this words, so I decided to be friends, he agreed
, but now he is telling me: I miss you and I love you.
I really do not understand him.
Do not know what to think.
I just leave it like this, if he really love me, now he have to fight for me.
because If I agree easily he will be the same guy, he is not longer very romantic as the beginning.
I fall in love with a chinese guy, we are young.
He works a lot, like all chinese men.
He works in a restaurant.
At the beginning he was very sweet, he tried to come visit me, every time he could, but with the pass of months, he stopped coming.
I really do not understand this change of attitude,so I ask him> he told me their co-workers get worried about himthey command your life, you will not going to be a good husband in future for me. you neither.
I ask him why> he said> it is a big gap between us because of language, and we do not fit together.
I felt very sad with this words, so I decided to be friends, he agreed
, but now he is telling me: I miss you and I love you.
I really do not understand him.
Do not know what to think.
I just leave it like this, if he really love me, now he have to fight for me.
because If I agree easily he will be the same guy, he is not longer very romantic as the beginning.
“they command your life, you will not going to be a good husband in future for me. you neither.” i don’t understand this, but i think your problems is about “friends’ pressure”: when a person in a relationship with some(many in your case) uncertainties, whose friends’ opinions may influnce his\her judgement. And I think this doesn’t happen only in cross-culture relationship, just enhanced. My suggestion is that you should fight as well to make this relationship work, try to make friends with his best friends if possible, or other ways to clear some of the doubts. Hope u can work this out.
I’m Chinese, I don’t work at all.
Sorry to ruin your generalisations.
My late husband Eugene was Chinese, born in China. When I married him in 1967, he was the only Asian in Sedro-Woolley, WA; population, about 4000. His mother had been trying to fix him up with a Chinese girl for years, but he was the type who liked to make his own decisions. Besides, his parents lived in Singapore then, too far away to have much influence.
A couple of years later a Chinese doctor with a Caucasian wife moved to town. (Still no Asian women.)
We were happily married for 30 years and raised three daughters. We lived in the Philippines and the South Pacific for about 20 yrs. I don’t consider race as having been a big problem in our relationship. In fact, having a husband whose experiences and culture were different than mine, was a real plus. It made life more interesting.
Hello all,
Very interesting website, just posting an ad here for myself 😀
I am a Chinese Canadian, I am 40 yrs old, 176cm tall, medium built, professional engineer, consultant, currently working in Bei Jing as an expat; I am single and I am looking for long term relationship, hopefully lead to marriage and having a family together. I am not looking for your foreign citizenship or passport. Any single lady interested in meeting me please feel free to contact me. I am very sincere, so if you are a game player please don’t bother. Thanks for reading my message and wish you all have a great day.
Dave
For what it’s worth, I want to add my 2 cents of experience in this as an Asian man who is able to speak fluent English and a bit of other languages, have good education, and dress well… still, just by my being an EAST ASIAN man, it seems that 90-96% of White women from any country (although places in Europe is better) still I am at disadvantage compared to White, Black, Latino, even Arab men.
It is not fair, but anywhere we go, seems like us East Asian men are the least desired out of all men to White women.
I think portrayals in Western media of course has huge immeasurably large effect on this, but also just naturally what gets White women excited apparently is not Asian men. If anything, it seems they naturally desire Black men most and East Asian men least.
So because of this, like many Asian men, I also grew to just think that Asian men had no hope to be with WF. For all my life I automatically thought that White women would never desire Asian men sexually… and yes, being desired SEXUALLY as MEN is ESSENTIAL. Admit it.
This was how I was, until a European Goddess (wonderful Polish girl) actually shattered that limiting belief by introducing me to the pleasures of AM/WF sex. My happiest times in life were with her and even though we’re not together anymore, I will always love and be grateful to her.
So I think it is possible. But even then, she approached me first, as I would never have approached her because I thought all WF are out of AM league.
But yes, sex is so very essential. It shows you desire and accept the other and is greatest expression of love and longing. To ignore it in AM/WF is plain wrong.
I genuinely believe if more WF and AM were having sex with each other, word of mouth will spread how AM are excellent romantic partners, boyfriends, husbands, LOVERS, period.
Then, we would see more and more AM/WF pairings until a point where hopefully this becomes more normalized and accepted instead of the “bizarre circus show”-like reactions people give when they see AM/WF couples in public.
@Missingherpl.
You wrote that many WF are not desirous of AM. It may be true in the Western world in large part due to the Western media. But as an AM married to a Brazilian WF I can say that Brazilians are very accepting of all people including AM. When I visited Brazil I did not detect any negative attitudes toward me. In fact I get a few stares. Perhaps S. America is a good place to start. Also, perhaps in Eastern Europe where the negative stereotypes of AM are not so engrained into the minds of the females there and your chances are much better, as is the case with you and your White Polish girl. I checked out one blog by an Asian man named Winston Wu who visited Russia and Eastern Europe and he said in his journals that the women there did not seem as adverse to AM/WF pairings as in the West. Perhaps you can visit Russia. I cannot confirm or disconfirm Mr. Wu’s observations and theories though as I only read about him.
All the beset to you.
Fred
I just read some of the post on the Candle for Love forum in the original post. Ugh, it’s like white men have created a formula to systematically bring Chinese and other East Asian women over to their country. No wonder the Chinese are suffering a woman and wife shortage, this isn’t just love at first sight (which is organic, chaotic in pattern) – this is artificial and organised. I am surprised, what with the worrying demographics over there, that the Chinese government isn’t doing anything about it.
I am baffled as to why is this even a topic for discussion. A topic like this will only bring endless comments and bitter feelings about racism. More specifically, white women being stereotyped as rich, arrogant, stuck up, ignorant and unappreciative of local culture. I don’t need to go into the Asian men stereotype. Stereotypes are for lazy people who conclude after one single meet up with a person from that culture. You can say Asian men don’t find white women attractive, but I think that’s not true, because white women have proven themselves to be attractive in many Hollywood movies, where as Asian men have proven themselves to be capable and successful business men in the states. Given the two facts, Asian Men and White Women couples should be in abundance right? After all, women desire men who are successful financially, and men desire women who are physically attractive, but yet you don’t see that, why? Simple, because white women are racist. They won’t date Asian men no matter how successful and wealthy they are, just because their skin color is not white. Do you see why this topic is pointless now? Don’t blame the Asian men for being selective, they are not. It’s the white women that are racist, selective and ruthless in the dating scene, particularly with dating Asian men.
Since this blog was started by a white woman married to an Asian man, you’d do the world a big favor if you educate white women to not be racist and look past Asian men’s skin color, because that’s where the real problem lies. It would also help if the Asian governments stop promoting and broadcasting Hollywood movies to Asians, because frankly, Hollywood movies are racist and white only. Hollywood destroys the world. White men are trying to retain their power, but if this continues, you know karma will sooner or later hit white people with their racist attitudes towards non-whites.
“Given the two facts, Asian Men and White Women couples should be in abundance right? ”
Yes. The richest couples in America, and also have the smartest children. Try Cerritos, CA and go to Gretchen Whitney High School!
“After all, women desire men who are successful financially, and men desire women who are physically attractive, but yet you don’t see that, why? Simple, because white women are racist.”
Tautology especially the white women in the South. You dont need to analyze dating patterns to know that…try the sororities of Alabama…when these southern white women dont even admit a black or Asian woman, do you really think they will go anywhere near a non-white…they wont even touch your skin!
http://thegrio.com/2013/09/12/university-of-alabama-sororities-wont-allow-black-pledges/
However, fewer racist white women on the west coast and in fact, as far as I know AM-WW couples are plenty in Hawaii.
Read my posts in the latest blog posted by Jocelyn…I have been accused of everything from being a white supremacist to anti-white after stating facts although no one has responded in twenty four hours!
“White men are trying to retain their power, but if this continues, you know karma will sooner or later hit white people with their racist attitudes towards non-whites.”
Actually white men are playing an active role in this. By marrying Asian women and moving them and their families to America, they are hastening the day when whites become a minority in this country. I wish the black women instead of complaining about shortage of black men married black African men in large numbers and brought them into this country…then whites will become a minority in America a lot sooner and it will be a karma indeed!!
@Sour Balbin and all other commentators
I guess it might come down to bunch of very insecure individuals whom are quite immature and do not like to reason with their brains. In a lot of Western societies, the majority, but not all, individuals harbour a “me first” attitude plus a level of envy, jealousy and resentment if someone who is non-white/Anglo Celtic/European descent proving to be successful- in this case Asian men.
Personally, from my own experience, I get quite annoyed when someone who is so succcessful is resented because of their ethnicity. So what? Capitalism is alive and well and will continue to flourish no matter what! Without it, jobs will be lost wealth cannot be created and used for philanthropic purposes. For heaven’s sake can’t everyone just acknowledge when someone is successful and wealthy no matter what their circumstances. Be proud of their achievements. Don’t cry over spilt milk or have a complacent attitude that says “poor me”. Alot of white Anglo Celtic/Europeans blame others for their own problems and cry foul if things do not go their way. The harsh, brutual and, dare I say it, embarrassingly blunt cold truth, is that white Anglo-Europeans have only got THEMSELVES to blame for all of their society problems. Don’t blame Asians, particulary Asian men, stop blaming Jewish people for crazy things ie. Global Financial Crisis that they did not cause, stop blaming Blacks or Hispanics. Stop whingeing, moaning and groaning if things are currently diabolical in every Western country.
It is YOURSELVES who have got to blame.
White Anglo-European males and females- most (but not all) think they are so masculine by watching sports and being alpha males, but the cold blooded reality is that they are the most INSECURE morons out there. If YOU really were truely MASCULINE- have the guts to say you are WRONG admit MISTAKES and cop whatever will come your way. You might think you are pretty. Ask yourselves this question- are you really? Are you THAT INSECURE that you constantly have boast about how well you REALLY look??
Please, stop talk about penis size, breast size, acting like an alpha personality or thinking that certain groups of people are deemed low on your so-called list of dating priorities. It just makes you pathetically stupid and immature.
For Asian men obssessing over why they are not able to date White women- or any other women including Asian Women my advice: forget about it and move on and find someone else who will give you the time of day and who will cherish you as a unique individual. I can guarantee that 90-95% of people on this forsaken Earth are without a doubt insecure and shallow people. Be grateful that you do not have to get married or be in a troubled relationship with any women- at the very least the men and women who get married too young will ultimately pay a brutal price later on regarding divorce proceedings and, perhaps if one were to dare do the nasty, extra martial affairs- nice :).
Now I am not deliberately trying to advocate a life of singledom for Asian men here. All I’m trying to say is that most Asian men need to be extra careful and think with their brains before jumping into any form of relationship. Irrespective of whether the relationship is with a white woman or another woman, be warned: alot of white, black and hispanic men have paid the ultimate price. And dare I say it, its a bloody hard price to pay. This is in part the media hyping their masculinity- and perhaps not doing themselves a favour by overdoing it. Alot of women will fall into the trap of being lured by their image only to find that years down the track it all comes falling apart. The white women/other women who engage in it come out worse for wear – battered and bruised thinking to themselves “if only I ingored the media and dated a Asian man instead”.
The Asian men would be laughing let alone sneer at this abyssmal failure. Whenever they see divorced couples of women and those same women tell Asian men they don’t date them because they’re Asian- laugh, sneer, gloat, smirk, kick them down and topple them. Rip into them like a ferocious tsunami of profanity and reduce those same women to tears. Tell them not to cry “poor me” for not having dated an Asian man because of what they’ve seen or heard. Be brutal and let them know that they are without a doubt “pathetic whores,- or whatever form of profanity suits the Asian man’s taste”.
I make absolutely no apologies for baring my entire soul on this forum but the latter post will hopefully teach a few complacent individuals out there not to terrorize Asian men in the future.
Have a good day
Do you need urgent loan,If yes,Apply now for more details regarding the loan via email:[email protected]
I’m a young American woman dating a Chinese man who I love dearly. He’s so sweet and kind, and his parents are supporting of us especially his father. He gladly takes me to hang with his other Chinese friends. I like how he isn’t afraid to lead and isn’t ashamed of me. We spend a lot of time together. However, I am worried because he is obsessed with this image of control. He says he doesn’t know what to do when I alwys act tough and enjoys it when I am weak because be feels like he is leading. But….as far as i know I am acting normal. I don’t wantto obsess or cling to him, that is not me. Especially so early, so I am wondering from others experiances how can we bridge this gap? I feel it’s centered around his insecurities and something about his culture. I really could use your guyses help.
It’s nothing to do with culture and more about the individual. There are plenty of “alpha male” dominant types out there. If the other partner is a willing submissive, great. If what you say is normal is actually “tough” to him, there’s a problem. Maybe he’ll weaken up in time, but to be honest, these types of men tend not to change.
@Koko – every couple will work out their differences one way or another. We all need to compromise to get agreements. Sounds like you would become “tiger mom” 🙂 jk
Easter marks a new start ? We went out to lunch, saw four amwf pairs and checking each other out 🙂
Late in the game, but just wanted to say I found your blog via “How I Became Texan” and am hooked. Look forward to reading more of your thoughts and questions. ^^
I read this post fully about the comparison of latest and earlier technologies,
it’s remarkable article.
As much as it is certainly true that AMWF couples are still very rare, I see some positive improvement, especially in Europe. On the other hand, I am under the impression that in Asia the situation is not evolving much.
I am from Taiwan and have lived in Sydney Australia over 35 years.
Interracial relationship between an Aussie girl and an Asian man is indeed rare. Even the fact that all my 3 sisters are married to westerners does not prevent people (westerners and Asians) from looking at me funny when I walk down the street with a white lady. At cinema door before the film session starts, one gets stare all the time. A young girl who is just a friend picked that up the first time we were in the mall. She has forever tried to be ‘discreet’ whenever we meet though we are not romantically linked.
There is a saying in Chinese that I always remember since I first heard it as a primary school kid. “When one lives in one’s village, it is home. When one leaves, one is always living underneath others’ roofs…” This saying did not surface after first Chinese man migrated to the west. It was coined thousands of years ago.
This saying applies to all kinds of attitude in all kinds of situations. The majority in a community will always treat those of minority groups differently and with disdain in some ways. Most western nations have only introduced laws and regulations to reduce the discriminations against the disabled among us in the last few decades. So what’s so surprising that there are taboos in term of personal relationship between a lady of majority ethnic group and a man from a minority group? It’s to be expected, no more and no less. It exists in the west and so it does in China, Japan, Vietnam, Saudi Arabia, and Congo. It’s nothing but human..
In my experiences, there are a very few common traits in western ladies that sincerely and seriously find Asian men as their potential partners. The main aspect I have noticed is that the western lady-girl herself is sort of a rebel within her. Rebel in that she is deep down against many conventional wisdom even if she is otherwise conforming. She may not know it herself, but there are consistent traits and collaborating evidences if one looks deep into their life and behaviour and attitude to some matters.
This would be consistent with the biological fact that evolution needs the rebels to instigate any changes. It’s part of the human society in some ladies of the majority group to find attractions in males from a minority group. Without it, there would not be any change within the human race just like there would not have any evolution at all without those odd characters to pop up to mix up the DNA a bit. We humans after all are part of the continuing changes in life.
And you know what, being a rebel is a not a bad thing. After all, we all want to be ‘individual’, aren”t we?
Rarity…I think it is very common…..and I will not back down from my statements….
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/05/18/duke-professor-attacked-for-noxious-racial-comments-refuses-to-back-downversial-comments/
Every person makes the own choice about spouse-to-be, we all are individuals!
Try being Indian and dating a Chinese man. Dark skin is frowned upon. Unfortunately that is not an option for me. Apparently only labourers are dark skinned, baked from spending hours in the sun. My future MIL constantly avoids clothes that make her look ‘dark’ She even advised me!!
Plus I am over 30. So I am the worst possible person he could have decided to marry. I have just learned to live with it. My Fiance however has stood his ground and stood up for me….but for how long? I wonder, but don’t let it bother me too much.
Maria, that sounds like a tough situation. I’m glad your fiance has stood his ground and that you are not letting it bother you too much.