In late 2011, Fred graciously shared his own inspiring story of how he fell in love with — and eventually married — a woman from Brazil.
Then last year, he started filling me in via e-mail on a new and completely different story. He decided to try and set up his Hong Kong nephew, who was in his late 30s and still single, with some American women he knew. As Fred wrote below, “I thought with 100 percent certainty that any man would leap to his death to be able to date not just one or two but three ladies!”
The story developed over the summer and just recently he updated me on what finally happened. Will Fred’s nephew find love in another country, just as Fred did? Read on.
Fred refers to that hugely popular post on the rarity of couples of Chinese men and Western women. I was speaking primarily about the situation in China, so what I wrote doesn’t necessarily apply to Chinese men who were mainly raised overseas.
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I remembered how Jocelyn once wrote that many Chinese men hesitate to date Western women for a variety of reasons. Was this really true? I decided to find out on my own.
In early 2012, my mother learned that my half-sister’s son Yew — who lives in Hong Kong — was still single in his late 30s. So I called my half-sister and offered to find him some Western women in the US to date. I also welcomed him to come and stay with me in the US during his vacation to meet them. To my surprise, she agreed.
I found three charming white women who agreed to meet him and give him a chance. There was Jennifer, an attorney in her early 40s; Melissa, another attorney but in her late 30s; and Jessica, a registered nursing student in her 20s who happened to be my secretary’s daughter. I didn’t tell these ladies that Yew would meet all three of them, since they might think him a playboy and not want to date him.
After all three ladies agreed to meet Yew, I contacted my half-sister with this exciting news, expecting to make plans for him to come and visit here. But you wouldn’t believe what she said — he refused to date these women because he didn’t consider himself their equal. I was shocked and thought my half-sister lied when she told me this!
So I decided to call Yew and ask him myself.
“If you come here for a little summer romance, you can date not one, not two, but three ladies,” I said. “And then you can choose the best one for yourself.”
He said that he didn’t feel like their equal, and that it had to do with more than just the language barrier and the distance between them.
“Being an IT guy is not so bad,” I said. “You can make ends meet such as paying the rent and supporting yourself, and you can afford annual vacations to faraway places.”
But he replied that he didn’t see the point of a summer romance if there was no prospect of a future marriage.
“You can marry a Western women if you really set your mind to it, just like I did.” I thought with 100 percent certainty that any man would leap to his death to be able to date not just one or two but three ladies!
I added, “If you think you’re not the equal to the two lawyers, then take the young nursing student Jessica. She has no job yet and is attending nursing school full time. And she’s the youngest and prettiest of the three ladies, in my opinion.”
But in the end, my nephew didn’t come. He developed kidney stones which required surgery and had to use the summer to recuperate. Even worse, I had the embarrassing job of having to explain to these ladies that he wasn’t coming.
Later during summer of 2012, my wife and I left our two children with relatives to travel to Hong Kong to visit our relatives, including my nephew Yew. While there, we brought up the idea of dating these three American women all over again. And even better, in July 2012 I asked yet another white woman named Gina if she was interested in meeting Yew and she agreed — which meant he now had four potential women to choose from.
One evening, my wife and I went out to dinner with family at a fine Chinese restaurant. Our table included my half brother, my half-sister, Yew, Cheung (my half-sister’s second oldest son) and his wife, Yi Ling (my half-sister’s youngest daughter) and her boyfriend (who was Chinese).
Invariably, the conversation turned to the topic of love, marriage and relationships. Yew’s mother — my half-sister — doubted that Yew would ever find a good woman to marry. When I heard this, I knew it was a perfect time to bring up the idea of dating these four American women.
I said, “This time there are not one, not two, not three but four fine white American girls who are willing to meet and date him. All he has to do is come to California and stay with me once he gets more vacation time.”
I told him that my older brother, my sister and I all married outside our race and it wasn’t a problem. I even said, “If you date a Western girl, you will for certain have a lot of fun. I can prove it to you.”
Then I asked Cheung and his wife to kiss while I take their picture. They both refused.
I turned to Yi Ling and asked her to sit on her new boyfriend’s lap and kiss while I take their picture. They also said no.
“Now watch me and my wife,” I said. I put my right hand behind my wife’s neck, pulled her towards me and kissed her passionately. “You see! Are you now convinced that you will have more fun with Western women? Now does this inspire you to give them a chance?”
No one at the table laughed and they stared at me in disbelief — a response that shocked me. They didn’t understand my sense of humor and could not accept the idea of kissing in public.
Yew once again said that he didn’t consider himself their equal since he wasn’t as great as a lawyer.
I laughed. “You do not understand the American mentality.” I told him that many Americans will have an open mind and give people a chance regardless of economic background, race or status. I even suggested he could choose Jessica, since she is a young nursing student.
But he said, “I am Chinese and I do not believe she will be compatible with my background. You are different because you lived in the US for many years and are accustomed to American ways.”
Yi Ling even said to me, “Wow, you are completely like a ‘gwai lo’ uncle.”
I didn’t know what to do or what to say. So I just laughed as I realized I had to give up helping Yew.
Fred practices employment law in Torrance, California.
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How did you meet? Why do you love him/her (or Chinese men/Western women)? How two different people “complete each other” in unexpected ways? We’re looking for a few good stories from Chinese men and Western women in love — or out of love — to share on Fridays. Submit your original story or a published blog post today.
Yi Ling even said to me, “Wow, you are completely like a ‘gwai lo’ uncle.”
That says it.
It’s like forcing someone from [State] (sorry Jocelyn) to eat chicken feet for breakfast.
Not only that my Chinese boyfriend is four years my junior, he is still a student (even a former student of mine, before we dated) and has never had a girlfriend before. Still he persued me with such persistance, made him look very sexy in my eyes. I liked him before, but his confidence really striked me.
If this Chinese guy thinks he’s not good enough for her, he will not be able to persue a Western girl – or any girl, for that matter.
Aww, how sad.
You know what, I actually sympathize with Yi Ling. For someone who has lived most of his life in Asia, adapting to a western girl’s demands is difficult. It’s not just limited to language, religion, or culture, but her eventual insistence that he adopt most of her ways. She will eventually be frustrated at any differences or misunderstandings that arise. If you look at the successful AMWF bloggers who married men from Asia, the commonality is that the women were willing to adapt to an Asian way of life and even learn some of the language.
Finding a western girl who grew up internationally in Asia (maybe the daughter of a media mogul based in Singapore, or a banking family in HK) is a better bet.
I wish his nephew had chosen that path and dated those 4 women.
Some Chinese are open to dating other women, but not so much with all.
thanks for sharing this story.
Some folks are plain afraid and with good reason!
I wish I had an uncle who would hook me up when I was single. Damn you lucky ass !!!!Now you know why “most” asian/chinese man will not chase/date or even attempt to ask western women for dates. The mentality of chinese people is alway think about marriage ,marriage, marriage! Dating must leads to marriage ( Chinese thinkings).
@ everyone. I am so sorry to say it but my cowardly nephew (Yew) brought me some embarrassment when I tell others this story. But I felt this story should be told so that others will not follow his cowardice.
@ Bruce. I also wished that I had an uncle like myself when I was younger and who would set me up with girls. So, I was trying to do that which I did not receive when I was young to help my nephew. But in the end, his cowardice is what stopped him from having success.
Okay, this is really weird to me. I live in Shenzhen, visit Hongkong often and I’ve seen really many AMWF couples there. It’s completely natural, nobody stares at them and so on. So I’m really surprised by this story.
In the mainland it’s a different story. Basically, when people here see me and my bf together they assume that he’s not Chinese (for example, at a bus stop: my bf and I were looking at the bus schedule and there was one guy sitting there. He looked at us and asked reallyyy sloooowly and clearly in chinese where we want to go. So my bf told him where we are going and asked if he know which bus we should take. The guy: “Your chinese is very good. Do you also know chinese characters?” Or in our building. We keep our bicycles downstairs and, because I’m the only foreigner living here, everyone knows which bicycle is mine and which is my bf’s. One day my bf found a note in English from one of our neighbours attached to his bike “I’d like to practice my English so if you or your girlfriend would like to learn Chinese, please let me know, I live at the 6th floor…”). Then, when people already know that he’s Chinese, they think that he’s everything but not my bf. So during my parents visit we’ve heard people saying “oh, he must be their interpreter/guide/student”. This is really sad. In fact, there are so many mixed couples here.
Another problem is the chinese attitude to a social status and all the material things. Many guys here think that a Chinese girl would never date them if they don’t have a house and a car so it must mean that foreign girls want God-knows-what. Recently my bf and his brother-in-law were trying to get a visa to Poland cause they wanted to go there with me in May. They thought that it will be easier to get the visa through a chinese tourist agency. Every time they talked to a guy in the agency it was getting more and more complicated and I was thinking “come on, it can’t be THAT difficult for a Chinese person to get a visa to POLAND”. So yesterday my bf told me that the guy in the agency told him that it’ll be difficult to get the visa for him cause he doesn’t have a house and a car. I know that the polish embassy totally doesn’t give a s…t about these so I asked “Did you tell him that you have a Polish gf?”. “Yes”. And then I called the embassy in Beijing and explained the situation, asked if my bf should have a house and a car to get the visa and they were like “whaaaat?… just go to the consulate in Guangzhou with all the documents, it won’t be a problem…” I can’t really believe that this guy in the agency was so jealous that another guy with a lower salary, without a house and a car CAN have a foreign gf that he tried to put my bf down for all this time. Pathetic.
Funny thing is that only Chinese men have this kind of attitude. But Chinese women around us (like our landlady, the shop assistants) not only know that we are together with my bf, they simply assume that we are already married and it’s completely natural to them.
So, Chinese guys: rise your ego! For foreign girls with Chinese boyfriends it’s really frustraiting sometimes…
Differences are just a pile of nonsense people put in their heads. Most of people in the world have more similarities than differences.
Just what differences are there??
They both came out of their mothers did they not?
They’re both human beings are they not?
They both eat, sleep, drink, talk, shit, watch TV do they not??
They both get sad, happy, angry, frustrated, hopeful, elated do they not?
So he grew up watching HK movies instead of Hollywood movies…so what…HK movies are exactly like Hollywood movies these days…instead of having bunch of white guys running around it’s a bunch of Chinese guys.
And the thing about Chinese not showing affection in public is nonsense, that has nothing to do with if you’re Chinese or not. They’re not robots, they’re human beings, it’s human impossible for them to show affection?? Why would they die if they show affection? It’s all nonsense they put in their heads.
Barbara,
I’m glad that you’ve called to confirm because Chinese gov’t policies suck!! Even laws are passed at the federal level, local gov’t depts don’t freaking follow. Chinese gov’t worries that you might run away to Poland and never come back. The guy at the agency is soo stupid man!! You mean with a house and car people don’t run away? Seriously! If I have 10 houses in China , I will still run away if I don’t like the country. Yup jealousy is everywhere. Anything is possible nowadays.
I sympathize with your nephew’s ideas. I don’t think it is common to show public affections among locals in Hong Kong. Mainland cities like Shanghai are where you will be surprised these days.
Sometimes you need to take chances. Unfortunately, too many Asians are very conservative. Your nephew did what he sees to his best interests in this case.
@Barbara. Thanks for sharing your experience in Shenzhen, PRC. How did a white Polish girl like yourself end up in China? You deserve high praises for willing to be the girlfriend of a Chinese man when so few Western girls are willing to give us Chinese men a chance.
I’d like to see the discourses changed.
What do you mean when saying “few western girls are willing to give us a chance”? No offense. Your nephew probably saved his face or embarrassment. But I don’t see how that is a failure as most people are trying to say. Relationship has to be based on equal terms.
People seriously think there will be something coming out of going on a few dates arranged like that. Some fun maybe. I know plenty of Asian men are not up for that kind of adventure and rightly so.
Wow, I cannot believe that his Chinese boy Yew refused to try dating any one of these pretty white girls. Prior to getting myself a Chinese girlfriend, I often fantisized about having one Chinese woman after another. All I could do was to fantisize and only fantisize and nothing more. Now I made it a reality by having myself a pretty Chinese goddess (but not 4 of them). What is wrong with Chinese men anyway? I have seen AM/WW couples before but they are few and far in between. But the converse (WM/AW) is very frequent. I have often wondered what is wrong with Asian men (or Chinese men). Are they prejudiced toward dating us Whites or other races? Jocelyn attempted to explain in her blog about why few Chinese men are willing to give a Western woman a chance, but I have often wondered how valid is Jocelyn’s findings. Whenever I see an Asian boy with a White gf, I always look and think to myself: great for them!
Although I have to say that I am sometimes surprised by some Asian boys. Last weekend, for example, we (my Chinese gf and I) could not believe our eyes. I saw this super, super beautiful blond haired blue eyed white girl with a shorter very nerdy looking Asian boy wearing glasses walking in together and later sitting together at Starbucks. Although, I as a white boy, do not generally find white girls attractive unlike I find Asian women to be such, I have to say that this super beautiful blond haired, blue eyed girl even caused me to glance at her. I am certain that others in Starbucks also glanced at her as well. My Chinese gf and I at first thought they must have been either co-workers or perhaps fellow classmates as we were near the college of my gf. Then suddenly I saw the super beautiful blond girl and the nerdy Asian boy kiss passionately. They were very tactile and loving. They embraced at the table laughing and enjoying being in love. I thought to myself, how could a super blond like herself be with a shorter nerdy Asian boy whose stature exemplified a computer geek? He was skinny, shorter, wearing glasses and plainly dressed. His body was in no way prepossessing, unlike the blond he was with. The blond girl was taller, slim, and curvacious wearing a low cut skirt. I swear that the blond was in super model shape, unlike the Asian boy nerd. My Chinese gf and I were in total disbelief. My initial thought was: what happened? What is wrong with the white girl? Can she not get herself a better looking guy? Does she have “yellow fever” like I do? I said to myself: here is this Asian boy who exemplied the typical weakling nerd remeniscent of how Hollywood movies portrayed Asian men especially the Japanese in WWII. I have seen some of these old WWII movies and immediately this Asian boy reminded me of them. I later chuckled and said to myself: great for them.
I never saw this couple again but I am very happy for them. So, I think that Yew could easily have been this nerdy Asian boy and walk hand-in-hand with a super pretty white girl if he only were brave enough.
“His nephew probably saved himself from embarrassment”
What the hell does that mean? You don’t know his nephew….you just assumed you know what he’s like huh? Like you assume how millions of other Chinese people are like? Get that nonsense outta here.
Really? Come on folks, let’s be real. Is Fred’s story all that surprising? Hooking up a local HK IT guy who’s still single at 39 with four white women in the US, two of which are lawyers (who are more likely type-A’s)? I’m sorry to say this but it might be a good thing that Yew didn’t come, because otherwise he might otherwise have ruined those white women’s impression on Asian men.
Fred, Bruce, and all my other fellow countrymen who date/marry western women, you are the alpha males among Chinese men. Yes we all know that the view is better here, but we can’t expect every other Chinese guy to be an alpha too. You are an alpha because of who you are, and that cannot be learned and taught.
@Askdsk. Here is the answer to your question. You asked: “what do you mean when saying ‘few western girls are willing to give us a chance?'” Well, I am speaking from experience and from what other fellow Asian men have told me. When I was much younger I only wanted to date Chinese girls, but later when I changed my mind and was willing to date Western girls, I tried to chase some of those pretty Western girls only to be turned me down time and time again. So, I went for a Brazilian girl and “scored.” So, when I say that few western girls are willing to give us Chinese boys a chance, I believe my opinion is valid as I am speaking from personal experience. I have also some Asian male friends whose experiences were similar to mine. Now I am married to my Brazilian hotty. I hope this answers your question.
@Jason
If I change my wording to “he probably saved himself of being embarrassed”, does that suit your ego better? I worked with quite a few people from Hong Kong.
To me, Fred’s post showed rejections of cultural values for the most part. You are right about one thing- the actual needs from a true relationship is no difference when you date outside your race. You don’t have to be so called alpha male to be worthy.
@Fred
I already knew the answer when I asked the question.
@ Jason. You replied to Askdsk’s comment that “his nephew probably saved himself from embarrassment” by writing that he (Askdsk) made certain assumptions about Chinese men and to rid himself of the nonsense. I have to concur with you. Askdsk does not know whether embarrassment will occur if Yew and these 4 American girls meet and date. After all, I knew very little about Brazilian women and I took the chance and flew to Brazil to ask for her hand to marry. I had no embarrassment and none resulted. Only success happened. I was trying to replicate the level of happiness for my nephew. I think that nothing can be gained if no efforts are made.
@ Askdsk. If one were to think in terms of avoiding embarrassment, then this type of thinking will inevitably prevent you from reaching successes in life. So, I have to agree with Jason that you should not think in terms of avoiding embarrassment as the reason to no do things. However, if the risks, dangers and costs are too high, then I can understand the mentality of avoiding the embarrassment as the reason for not going forward. But in Yew’s case, he had low risks and low costs. I offered him my place to stay, I will offered to introduce these 4 girls to him and to translate for him since his English is not too good. He would have had to buy only an airline ticket and have some spending money only. The rest I was going to take care of for him. He earned a decent wage as an I.T. guy in H.K. Thus, he can fend for himself quite well.
@centaur
It is pathetic to let such dating define a man. Bruce is all white washed and claim to be Chinese at the same time. A big joke.
@ Askdsk. You wrote: “I already knew the answer when I asked the question.” If you already knew the answer, then why did you ask a question which you knew the answer to?
@Fred
I was trying to make a point the rhetoric already downgrade yourself.
@Centaur. You wrote that it was good thing that Yew did not come to the U.S. or otherwise he might have ruined the impression of Chinese men in the eyes of the American girls.
I reply to you by writing that you should not think so negatively. You do not know what these girls are thinking and you do not know the outcome. Thus you cannot competently expression an opinion on whether my nephew would have or would not have ruined the impression of Asian men in the eyes of these 4 white girls. I am perhaps biased (i.e. defending my nephew) due to our consanguinity as we are relatives, but the truth of the matter is that no one can say what will happen, and thus I resent comments that he (Yew) would have ruined it for other Asian men. We should stick to facts and not baseless predictions of outcomes. A little bit of positive encouragement will go a long way. All the best to you, bro.
@Manny. Great story. I think many Asian boys who like Western women would have loved to be in the shoes of that nerdy Asian geek with the super beautiful blond.
@Fred
Are you sure you understand your nephew’s perspectives? I don’t know the guy, but I feel I know the guy to a certain degree. I say what I think it is. I am sure plenty of people will come out and say they are different from that nerdy guy in HK. To prove what point? That part often puzzles me.
I can challenge the assumption fortune favors the bold. It depends on where you are.
@Babara
It is possible the guy who told you the visa requirements does not know all the information, but not trying to make it difficult. Most countries require Chinese nationals to prove job and assets.
@Fred, you are more of an alpha than your nephew, I don’t think anyone can argue with that, right? You pursued the beautiful ones and got rejected, and then you went after your Brazilian beauty and scored. That itself is the trait of an alpha — you don’t back down until you score. I doubt your nephew would have the heart to go on to a second date if he got bad reviews on the first one. Yes, I am making a judgment based on my assumptions, but the fact that (1) Yew refused not once, but twice, to meet the white women you set up for him; (2) he is still single at the age of 39 (we all know how Chinese parents try to hook them up with potential wives/husbands when they are 25 or 30); and (3) he himself told you that he felt he could not match up to those women; lead to my conclusion. My guess is, that even if you sit him in front of one of the women, he probably wouldn’t know what to say, how to move, or where to look. I am sorry, Fred, but you just can’t turn your nephew into an alpha over night.
@askdsk: so you like to define people with “pathetic,” “plain stupid,” “big joke.” How would you like to be defined yourself?
@Manny
Your language is borderline racist. I don’t know what is wrong with your Chinese girlfriend to be with you.
It is more disturbing Asians themselves give you thumb up. Something is wrong.
@ centaur
I have a different world view than yours.
I can understand why Yew felt uncomfortable. I think Chinese men in Hong Kong are very traditional and might not be so open to dating foreigners. I found that to be the case when I lived there. In China it was different, maybe because it was such a novelty. Hong Kong people are used to being around foreigners, but that hasn’t always been the case in China. I hope Yew will find true love.
I kind of agree with @centaur. White girls are actually easier to connect with than Asian girls in my opinion. Yew does not seem to have much of self-esteem.
give this guy Yew a break. if that’s what he thinks, then its his business, not ours.
For what it’s worth,
Since I’ve spent a considerable amount of time in US, it’s almost possible to tell (80% of the time) just by looking at the looks of the American Born Chinese girls who’re gonna hook up with Caucasian dudes.
Among those Asian Female/White Male couples, about 5% of them is outliers where you’d see a very handsome stud Caucasian guy with a pretty cute Asian girl. The rest 95% constitute skinny Caucasian guys (be it 6 foot tall, they appear lanky) with homely looking Asian girls. Besides, for those out there wondering if all Asians do have slanted eyes. Yes, look at those Asian Female/White Male couples. Oh by the way, check upon Taylor Swift if you don’t know how slanty eyes look like. Those 95% of them will show you exactly how Caucasian males can’t even differentiate pretty Asian girl and homely looking girl. It’s called Yellow Fetish. As long as skin tone is yellow, they’re fine with it. That mindset goes both way. As long as skin tone is white, they’re ok to be hooked up with too. Oh well… The whole world is crazy. Life is unfair. Get used to it. You may or may not believe what I said. Perhaps somebody might argue I’m crying foul.
I do have a Caucasian colleague who has an Asian girlfriend. He’s like most friendliest guy I’ve ever met among White guys. His presence during lunch is joy of the day. His girlfriend is also very nice. I told the girl “You must be a luckiest girl in the world”. Not because she’s got a white person, but because he’s a great guy. The way he makes people laugh and he’s also very hard-working.
And I also come across a Caucasian douchebag who has a Chinese girlfriend from China. He’s like 5’6” tall. His girlfriend follows him like a poodle, looks up him like there’s only one God in her heart, listens to him whatever he says. Apparently it works for both of them. Yes, in life, who cares if you and your partner is making the best out of your lives. But in reality, we’re not living alone. We’re surrounded by people. Of course if he’s a douchebag to her, he wouldn’t even have gotten her in the first place. Do I care? Of course not. The problem is majority of Asian Female/White Males couples make up those types most of the time.
On the other hand, Asian Male/White Female couples, it’s a rarity to see, but when you do, it’s more likely White females are beautiful and Asian guys are good looking. Of course there are nerd-looking short Asian guy with a white girlfriend. Whatever the case is, I got the impression that Asian guy from such couple tend to be humble and gentle when it comes to passing by or coming across with other Asian guys, for eg. like me. It’s totally different from Asian Female/White Male couple, where you’re most likely to come across some arrogant White dudes proudly hugging a tiny waist of his Asian girlfriend and definitely looking like a douchie.
And for those out there, just because you don’t have a white girlfriend/boyfriend doesn’t mean you’re missing something in life. Not because I don’t have a white girlfriend doesn’t mean I’m not adventurous, I’m not open-minded. Only when I’m against those interracial marriage, [WHICH I AM NOT], one can claim as racist. I’m perfectly fine with my chinese girlfriend. We both have same ambition in life. We both have struggled together. We both have supports for each other. Maybe if there is one female who clicks with me at almost all levels, I might have hooked up with her no matter how white/yellow/black/brown her skin tone is. I’m happy with my girlfriend. And I would say almost all Chinese couples would be happy with their partners too. Otherwise, we would be seeing 1.4 Billion China coming up with a lot of rapes news as coming from India.
And well…. 200 years of British Empire building up White power, making English as international language and Americans easily swooped in and claims as White power for half a century, extending the same language with slight modification, we might as well wait (my next generation) another 250 years, and then we’ll see if White guys still can pick up Chinese girls with “ni hao ma?／ 你好吗？” with a strong English-accented tone. Go to the social setting where all Chinese relatives, friends chatting like there’s a knife fighting on the table, and the White dudes would be smiling and crackling. And then we would come up with stereotypes for Whites as “shy, and timid”. And we’ll be laughing in their back how bad their Chinese accent is.
Like, one of my Caucasian female coworkers used to say “I don’t fu*king understand what he is saying” since she’s from New Jersey. [Note: New Jersey is known to express their feeling quite well.] There would be one day 我真的不明白这个神经病说的话 expression we’ll be hearing.
@askdsk,
If you remember, Manny is the guy who is willingly offerring his two younger sisters to sleep with Asian guys in other posts. And I’m the one who’s always against Manny’s weird story. And Manny and Bruce will exchange their sexual life together in Jocelyn’s blogs like there’s no tomorrow.
And for some who just happens to read his story will give him thumbs up too.
@Barbara, My Chinese husband is also sometimes thought to be a foreigner by locals, though to be fair he does dress rather American and maybe doesn’t look like a typical Han Chinese. As for the visa, I’ve dealt with getting my husband a Schengen visa (for the EU) and it is not easy for Chinese people who don’t have a lot of assets or haven’t been to western country in the past. Perhaps things are starting to relax, but I wouldn’t be offended by the guy at the agency.
@Barbara,
It happened to us many times that they also think he is American or a translator. Last time was 4h ago in Suzhou when we were buying shoes for his nephew and the woman asked him if he could understand her. Afterwards she did a mistake and assumed that my boyfriend was married to his sister and for some reason that I will never understand that he was my translator. So the situation was: a western with a translator to buy shoes for another person, a sister married to her own brother and a local who according to them was American..haahhaha
@ Fred,
I don´t know your nephew but for example in my case, I would never let anyone organize a blind date, or a normal date, for me. I believe that a good date comes up thanks to a good crush or a good short conversation that is followed by proposing a dinner, coffee, or other social activities. So is not only about people from Hong Kong, I don´t think any of my friends would ever accept that situation either. Though I can see your intentions were good but in fact when people brings to the table topics of that kind (find a girlfriend, marriage, kids) is kind of embarrasing cause they are trying to push you to do something you don´t want / don´t want to discuss / can´t get / is private.
Maybe your nephew was also thinking that if 1 of those 4 awesome American women is the one they need to organize a cross-borders relationship. Is he / she willing to rellocate? Honestly, the older you are, the more time you spend by your own, the less you like to change your life for other people, less flexibility and more afraid of changes in your daily life.
Good morning!!!!!!!!I’m back again !!!!! It’s saturday morning and I’m at my office working like an ox.
I’m above alpha male level right now. It’s called the ULTIMATE LEVEL. Even both alpha and beta males listen to me now hehhehehhahhahah lmao 🙂 at 9 am saturday. I’m 110% not white brainwashed. I still keep my chinese traditions like respecting the elderly, taking care of my mom, having other chinese hobbies ( huge collections of bonsai and high quality koi fish , zen garden). I only drink tea. Yes, I’m a hunter, a hardcore fisherman ( my father was a hunter) and I do bodybuilding 1 hr a day 6 times a week ( just to maintain my muscular body. used to be a skinny ass!!! 🙁 ) . I love to fix things like all leaks in the house and I can remove car engines if I want to . I like to help people in general. Am I still white brainwashed now boy???
I usually like honest people and good hearted people. Manny can be anybody regardless of his race , I will still help. If you have good intentions, you’re like just Chinese to me. If I’m single right now as a chinese man and no women would give me a chance, they will regret for the rest of their lives . Some women just look at the first impression and determine that ” oh he is handsome, he is my soulmate” later on , they meet at divorce court. I’m the type of men that matured like red wine and make your taste buds sizzling with joys with age . I’ll stimulate your boring mind just like giving you an orgasm. I’m telling you now that I’m the hardest working person there is out there. I’m very committed to my families and friends . Im open minded at every levels . Now back to my exciting job. I’m smoking this keyboard.
@ Susan Blumberg-Kason. When you were in H.K. studying, did you try to date some local Chinese men? Or you were only passively observing and made no efforts? If you made a conscious effort, can you supply me with the details.
Since you married and later divorced your mainland Chinese man and remarried a White man, were you disgusted at Chinese men and hence this disgust led you to marry your current American Husband?
By they way, is your book available at Barnes and Nobles? I think I would like to buy it and read it. How much is it by the way?
@ Laura. Perhaps you are correct that my nephew Yew did not want anyone to organize a blind date just as you are reluctant to go out on a blind date. But I was making it easy for him. I know that finding the right person is hard and thus I tried to set up 4 girls for him so as to increase his probability of success. Also, if he came to the U.S., I would not let him go out on the first date alone because the girl may fear him and he may fear her. I was going to have them both come to my house for dinner and spend some time together along with my wife, I and children. Then if they still need more time, they can once again meet at my house as I know the girls and I know my nephew and they should feel comfortable with me being present. Then after they develop some level of comfort, then they can go out alone. Thus, I had already taken into account the fear factor and the shyness factor. Of course, it required both sides to take a leap of faith to meet each other. These 4 U.S. girls were brave and were not prejudiced and were willing to give a “yellow” man a chance. You see how brave the Americans are compared to my cowardly nephew. I think many Chinese men from China (born, bred and raised there) are cowards when it comes to dating Western girls. Don’t you think?
@Bruce,
I read your comment and is a bit confusing. When you say you are now white brainwashed and you mention: respecting the elderly, taking care of my mom…Isn´t that a bit ..weird to you?
I bet there are many white who respect the elderly and take care of their mom. I would not say that it makes you not white brainwashed, it just makes you a good person.
Nothing to do with white brainwashed, if so, let´s say that was a bit racist.
I see every day people who say something like that, that they are so traditional and they mention those factors. Then you get into the metro and you see that no one offers their seat to elderly, you need to call people and point the belly of a 8months pregnant woman so that they “pay attention to it”.
I also hear about how much their care about their moms: “I give 1000CNY/month to my mom every month and I call her 3 times/week”, good, but most part of them go to visit their parents only once a year (if they go) and they say they don´t go twice cause during national holidays is a big mess ( I know it, but still, didn´t they say that they care of their mom?, I think if you care about your family you can handle that stress).
Those comments freak me out, I also have a friend who says ” It is Very European to show your feet, I am a very traditional Chinese girl and I don´t show my feet (meaning she does not wear sandals)”, yeah is true she doesn´t wear sandals but she wears shorts with boots in winter with no panties.
Do you think that not taking care of your mom, of elderly or showing your feet makes you more white? …
I believe those adjectives make you a better person but let´s not say ” they are a chinese/american/european thing”
@ Fred,
Thanks for the response! I don´t know your nephew and I can see from your comments that you do care about him. But the last thing I, personally, would want is a date at my uncle´s home.
Let´s say that in a first date being surrounded by children and by a married couple, where one of them is my uncle, is not a dream. No private conversation, no chance to get to know each other without some pressure…
Environment is important.
I would not say local men with no international experience are cowards, that term is too strong. I would say they are shy or not willing to do it, that´s all. I´m European and I would not take a plane to go on 4 blind dates to US, with my uncle, and at his own place. Dates are a result of something that happened before.
I would say Chinese men need more time to take some step. But not cowards, just a different attitude.
Fred, to answer your questions, I really did try to date local Hong Kong Chinese guys. I went out with a guy I met when I was in college. He took me to dinner and movies, but only kissed me once on the cheek. He planned for us to go to Macau one weekend, but then canceled at the last minute. Even though we had known each other at that point for several years, he never introduced me to his mother. I dated another local guy that went further, but again he couldn’t tell his family about me. We could only meet on his days off or after midnight when his mother was asleep. I went out with a couple others for first dates, but they didn’t call back. I don’t blame or hate any of these guys. I think they were very traditional and probably had expectations in their families to marry local women. As for my experience with my ex-husband, I wasn’t disgusted by that or so turned off that I could only think about marrying a white guy. I guess I learned that I had to look at the person for who he is, not what he is. My ex grew up during the Cultural Revolution and was parted from his family at an early age, never to return to live with them. That seemed fascinating to me when I was 23, but it had some repercussions on our family life. My book won’t be out until Spring 2014, and it will be available at B&N. It should cost the usual paperback price, about 15 dollars. Thanks for your interest!
I can’t agree with most of the comments here. The guy does not want to fly to the US to go on dates with these women, so what? That does neither make him a coward, nor does it mean that he is not an “alpha-male”. How come people even use this word anymore? This word is so 1984 (the book, not the year). I really don’t see how you can say some people are alpha and others are beta or gamma or whatever you’d call them. This is very degrading. People like different kinds of persons, not everyone likes your so-called alpha-person. Some people care more for inner values than for how a person looks. I’m in love with my fiancé not because he’s tall or because he has muscles or because he’s good looking. If he was only that, I would have never fallen in love with him. I love him for his inner values and these values make him the most handsome guy in my eyes.
For some people, dating is something serious and maybe falling in love takes time and doesn’t happen on a vacation in the US.
@Barbara: I don’t know if this is only me, but recently I’ve seen quite a few AMWF couples here in Shenzhen. Me and my fiancè often hold hands in public, so most of the time people do not mistake him as being my translator. It still happens sometimes though, leading me to think: “What kind of translator is that? Holding his client’s hands?”
Laura,
It’s not what I write that ‘s weird. It’s how you treat people and your parents, families and friends in real life is the most important. Laura, never judge on how a person comments, always judge on how he/she acts ( actions) in real life. I’ve taught my friends to look at the whole package of a person instead what he/she speaks. That’s why women fall for the wrong guys sometimes. hint hint.
Bruce
@Bruce,
Thanks for the explanation. In fact I believe that words and conversations reflect a lot about someone´s personality. You are somehow saying what I said. Many people say they take care about elderly and their mom and so on but those are words not actions.
Actions speak louder than voice but in the case of racism what people say can be harder sometimes.
Example:
If someone tweets a message saying that white people do not care about elderly or their moms, and that´s a yellow thing.
Is a tweet an action or only words? …
Writing a comment has an action behind, takes longer than just “saying it” when you write it, therefore it is an action
@Fred, I really don’t think that it’s something extraordinary that I’m with a Chinese guy. Like I said, there are some AMWF couples here. I can’t say if there are many couples like us in SZ since I don’t know many foreigners here. But all of the foreign girls I’ve met here so far have Chinese boyfriends or husbands.
Also, I seldom think of my bf as “Chinese person” and I NEVER think of him as “Asian” (just like I never think of myself as “white” or, even worst – “Caucasian”! what am I, a dog or what?). So I don’t know what you mean by “giving Chinese guys a chance”. It wasn’t about dating or not dating a “Chinese guy”, it was about dating this particular guy. Besides, what makes you think that I “gave Chinese guys a chance”? Maybe it was completely oposite – he gave a Polish girl a chance? 😉
What am I doing here? Two years ago my works were exhibited here and I was invited to Shenzhen as an Artist-in-Residence. I’ve met this guy, we felt in love with each other. After 4 months here I went back to Poland, told my family and friends that I’m moving to China, packed and came back to Shenzhen. That’s it.
@chinaelevatorstories: yes, I also don’t get this logic. Some people here just can’t accept it that an ordinary Chinese guy can be with a foreigner and they try to find really weird explanations sometimes.
One evening, like a few weeks after we moved in to our current flat, I was sitting alone in front of 7-eleven, drinking a beer and watching people. Then one guy came to me, said that he has seen me around before and asked if he can join me. We started to chat and it occured that he lives next door. When I told him that I live here with my Chinese bf he said “so your bf must be very rich.” Apart from the fact that maybe I should feel offended with his assumption that I’m some kind of gold-digger, what he said really surprised me cause we live in one of those shabby villages where people play majiang dowstairs while their children urinate around. So I asked “Do you think that we would live here if any of us was rich?” My neighbour didn’t give up: “Then his parents must be very rich!” Then I felt really sorry for this guy…
@chinaelevatorstories, Laura:
It was not my intention to belittle the average Chinese man. I am one of them. But, inferiority complex among Chinese men is a reality. And inferiority complex is not exclusive to Chinese men. When a man is up against a woman that he believes is out of his league, he gets nervous and doesn’t know what to do. The same goes for a woman. And to many Chinese men, western women, by the virtual that they are white and therefore are automatically associated with more wealth, better education, higher standards of living, and, believe it or not, a higher sex drive, makes them feel uneasy. Laura, your encounter with your neighbor is the perfect example of such inherent inferiority complex — one must be rich to date a western girl.
Women are intuitive and can sense this insecurity right away. Some women don’t mind it, some women may actually find it attractive, but many women are turned off when the man in front of them is not confident. Like what Mary said earlier, when she is pursued relentlessly by a student four years her junior, she finds him very sexy.
“alpha male” might be an over-simplified term to label men with confidence, but that’s essentially the idea. A man, Chinese or not, needs to be confident to be attractive, and one can’t fake confidence. This, based on my observation, is more true in the western culture, where boldness and being forward is rewarded, whereas subtlety and being reserved is neglected, or even punished.
BTW, @chinaelevatorstories, I think you might have mixed up “alpha male” with “big brother.”
Sorry, it should be “Barbara” instead of “Laura” in my post above.
I wish a lot of asian men would build up more confidence for themselves. I understand that all cultures perceptions are different from one another but we are all human beings and no one culture is better than the other. There’s a lot of individuals out there that are curious about other cultures and willing to explore and embrace them. Chinese men are not beneath American women and I know I’m not the only one that thinks that way. More women are dating outside of their races now I know that I had been giving the impression for the longest time that Asian men are not interested in white women and so I went on thinking that way because I was never given an impression otherwise until a few years ago. I’m dating a Chinese/Japanese guy now and I’ve discussed with him what I had thought for the longest time and he corrected me and said a lot of Asian men want to date outside of their race but just believe that women aren’t interested. I say even if you get knocked down continue putting yourself out there. You never know when you could have a chance with a woman of your dreams if you don’t try. Not everyone is so focused on if you have a lot of material wealth.
I recommend sociology 101 for most Chinese men. Also, you need to be closer to your culture root to be truly confident.
American ideas of individual success and risk taking makes preserving culture values difficult. But you can find your own way.
I myself do not feel inferior because I look America in a more critical way with my own Chinese upbringing. You don’t need to romanticize either side – Chinese or America. You feel inferior only when you are made so. Overcoming barriers is a way of life. But it has its own rewards in the process.
@Barbara,
Thanks for the explanation, that´s exactly what I had in mind! In fact the other day when a friend was talking about finding someone for her that´s basically what I said. Cause she only talks about finding a French / Spanish man that´s the only adjective I know about her potential partner. So I suggested she stops looking for a Nationality instead of a personality. But she was a bit confused.
@centaur,
Thansk for the correction, and nice explanation to Barbara. I think the explanation you gave to Barbara about her neighbour is the right one, he has chosen to talk about money instead of other adjective to show his interest but I think he was just trying to show that Barbara´s partner is different somehow.
@Fred,
I was thinking about your efforts and your nephew. After all, even though you live in US, maybe you are still very traditional, in a Chinese way. Maybe you don´t realize but with your efforts you are trying to arrange a marriage between your nephew and American women, same as old times ( but they are from US, only one word is different, American). The main point is that you worry about him because of his age and you arranged dates.
I asked my dad, he said: maybe cowards are those who can´t face or imagine themselves living “alone” and they just get together to fix the issue.
Interesting point of view.
@askdsk,
That´s a great suggestion. Being critical is not something everyone can do. I am critical, I like to question everything and therefore I am sometimes critical about some topics my dad will never understand.
Example:
– Situation: Conversation about China
Comments: Lots of negative comments about freedoom of speech that lead to lots of negative feedbacks which are not even linked to the topic. But leave China in a bad situation. Some of the topics come from people who has never been to China
Me, After a while: Well, I understand your point of view. But do you really think you do have freedoom of speech? Or that´s what they made you believe? Going to the streets to fight for your rights (employment, healthcare, minimum wages,..) in a pacific way and as a response police will come and hit you is not exactly what I call freedoom of speech.
Situation afterwards: Changed, how can I say something like that about my own country? Am I brain-washed?
I am not brain-washed, I am just realistic, any country is perfect, my country is not perfect, China is not perfect either, but hey I like both of them.
I still face that my family does not like it or understand it, but I believe every time I am able to see those differences I grow as a person.
@ Laura
I think it is better to understand the world from more than one point of view.
@Babara
Because US has melted all Europeans into one pot and defined them as white, I am also being defined as Asian. It is another American thing you don’t need to take too seriously.
@askdsk @Laura – Do you feel you have identity issue like I do ? I am not sure that I am Chinese American or American Chinese… Seeing the world from multiple angles really make me drifted away from the norm of both sides.
@Barbara – agree couples are two people together. Race, money, and culture should not be THE factor, only love is.
@forest,
Is not my case, I live overseas since 2008, not so long ago. I´m 25 years old now, I guess I will feel like you in some years, after living abroad for a decade or more. I have spent most part of my life in my home country.
I feel Spanish.
@forest:
We are social animals, and our happiness largely depends on our relationship with the people around us. However, we can’t build our happiness solely on how other people perceive us. Each person is different, and so is what makes him/her happy. Why do you feel you have to have a categorized “identity” at all? Don’t we all have our own system of defining what is important to us, what makes us happy? What does “Chinese American” or “American Chinese” even mean? And how dare anyone pretend to know you by slapping that label on you?
@centaura totally agree with you…defining ourselves is for the purpose of others who need/must/want to know ( rightly or wrongly) because in their minds “no way can you be blah,blah….if you look like blah, blah” so it has to be explained to the so it can ease their mind and curiosity.
I have a similar story to that of Yew my Chinese friends parents who look at me as their adoptive daughter thought it would be a nice idea if they found a suitor for me. So in the old Chinese “match making way” they spoke to friends and neighbours to see if there were any nice, eligible Chinese men interested in going on a blind date.
My friends parents are in their 70’s and live in Hangzhou, through their neighbours they heard about an eligible man in his late 40’s whose parents were also looking for a “nice girl” for their son.
My friends parents contacted my friend who then contacted me to see if I was interested in a blind date, I was intrigued because I’ve always wanted to know/see how these match making dates pan out so I said yes to the date. My friends parent’s then obtained the phone number to this man’s parents they called them and explained to them who they were and the purpose of their call.
A few days later my friend confirmed that he (my blind date) said yes to our meeting. The only problem was that neither of us spoke each other’s language however that problem was soon solved because my Chinese friend was accompanying me to this date ( as a translator but also to report back to her parents) and his younger brother who spoke English was accompanying him.
It was actually a nice “date” we got to know each other through our translators, all 4 of us had a nice time laughing and chatting with each other. Nothing eventuated between him and me ( different likes, different tastes) but we remained friends. We took a leap into the unknown because we were both open to the possibilities.
Fred, I commend you for helping out. It’s too bad your nephew did’nt consider the offer.
‘Alpha’ traits are the driving force behind successful long term relationships. Open mindedness, a sense of adventure, curiosity, humor, assertiveness, and pursuits of information (culture outside one’s own), only comprise some of the traits that are needed to even dare meet a person of the opposite sex.
Mixed relationships demand higher sensitivity, patience, problem solving, and self-confidence that is very hard to induce- which is needed to face the ignorance and biases of others. If a person is too passive to date of ones’ own race, dating outside that race will be a monolithically epic barrier. Fred, you and the other couples here who have posted, have destroyed those barriers. Whether you want to admit or not, you are ‘alpha’.
Breaking racial, ethnic, cultural, and national norms are alpha. Being part of the flock and fitting in is other than alpha. I’m sure that some mainlanders would take offense of someone Chinese marrying Japanese. It would’nt suprise me with the history of these countries.
Back on point- your nephew will determine his own joys in life. If there is strong urge to have a life partner and children, he will it make so. Hey you never know, some women are very forward nowadays- they might ‘club’ him and drag him back to the cave. Best wishes.
@centaur: Sorry, mixed up the titles, I didn’t mean 1984 but Brave New World instead. Not talking about big brother, but talking about categorizing people into alpha, beta, or whatever, which to me sounds like you are saying that alpha-males are better than the rest. What exactly do you mean by alpha-males? Is this a common categorization in the US? I still think that this kind of categorization is degrading. Who defines which traits are better than others?
@Forest
I think it is normal to feel uneasy because you don’t seem to fit into just one place. But it is also an asset to be able to relate to different people and cultures.
I spent my formative years in China. So I am essentially Chinese with a good understand of its history, language and culture. Living in US gives me the perspectives of how assimilation works and what is lost in the process. In fact, this idea of shedding all your past and start over has its historical reasons. It does not apply to many immigrants or their children anymore. I find people who are most happy once they have good ties to culture roots no matter you are first, second or third generations.
You have to be comfortable with your identity even when external forces seem to go against you. Common assumption suggests it needs to be a hard won battle, which is absurd to me.
@Barbara. Thanks for sharing part of your story about why you are living in Shenzhen, Republic of China (or People’s Repbulic of China — if you are communist). You certainly made me chuckle and gave me a new perspective. When I praised you (the Polish girl) for giving an ordinary Chinese man a chance, you replied by saying maybe it was the Chinese man who gave the Polish girl a chance. I never looked at it that way before. You certainly opened my eyes and made me realize that there is more than one way to dissect a fact. So, I still must praise you (the Polish girl) for your greatness.
Why do you not post your story here just as I did and tell us in detail how you met this ordinary Chinese man and fell in love with him? I would love to hear all the dirty juicy details. Please, I implore you to do so. In the meantime, I thank you and wait patiently for your reply.
@ everyone here. I cannot believe that this simple story has generated so much heated discussion and so much controversy. I simply intended to tell the story of my “cowardly” newphew as an example of someone not to follow, while simultaneously injecting some humor into the story for all of you to enjoy. Instead, I received praises which I enjoyed, but I also took a lot criticisms and was lambasted by some of you for trying to force westernism on my traditional Chinese nephew. Believe me, I was just trying to tell a simple story based on truth but little did I anticipate so much emotions would be generated here. I have now learned my lesson that trying to encourage Chinese men with a strong traditonal mindset to date western women is not the best of ideas, because it takes more or less a maverick to do so.
I must state for the record that I, a Chinese man who was raised in North American, have more of a westernized mentality and have no problems going with American girls or girls of the Western culture. I have no problems kissing in public or even putting my hand on my wife’s ass in public. But now I know that I cannot force the western ways on the Chinese men.
@ all of you. I have another story for all of you and I do not think that Jocelyn will publish it because it is about Western man & Asian (Chinese) woman. Jocelyn’s site is strictly reserved for AM/WW. So, here is the story which is again based on truth.
I have a friend (White male) at age 53 now named Peter B. He loves Asian women. When he was younger in his 20’s he taught English in Japan where he met and played with many Japanee girls (according to him) and eventually he married a Japanese woman. Later they both immigrated to the U.S. in the early 1990’s. He was doing well financially in U.S. She, however, later developed some mental condition called schizophrenia which marred their marriage. When he was at work, many times she would not take her medications and scream; so their neighbors called him to come home to attend to her needs. The employer would initally allow him to leave early but when this happened too many times, the employer could not accept him leaving so many times. So, the employer eventually fired him. This process would happen at every job. Eventually he got tired and divorced her at the height of the recession. After his divorce, he had tremendous difficulties finding for a job here in the U.S. In fact he was not working for several years except for the odd jobs here and there. So, what did he decide to do? TEACH IN CHINA!!!!!! This is exactly what Jocelyn Eikenburg did and where she found the love her life.
So, in December 2012, he began his job search. In Jan 2013, he signed the contract. In early Feb. 2013 he secured his visa. On Feb. 13, 2013 he took off on flight via Southern China Airlines and on Feb. 14, 2013 he arrived in Shenzhen, China, where he now resides and teaches at Shenzhen Senior High School located at 8 Zetian Road. The school gives him a decent wage, a free apartment to live, free breakfast and lunch during school days, and if he wants a dinner for only $2.50 U.S. Then guess what? Last week, he told me that he just met a young 23-year old Chinese girl and emailed me saying that he will take her out for the weekend.
he called me several times to report the details but I missed his call which went to voicemail. So, once I get the details I will be happy to supply them to all of you who are interested in WM/AF cases.
You see!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Many Chinese women have no problems (in general) dating Western men. When I tell others this story, no one criticizes me or lambasts me for telling this story. It seems that when I try to make a case of AM/WW such as my nephew’s case, I take an inordinate amount of criticisms and get lambasted by others. I truly do not understand why the controversy when I tell the story of my nephew but yet there is no controvesy about my friend Peter’s love and pursuit of Asian female beauties. Can someoen explain this to me to help me better understand things. Thanks.
Well you shouldn’t care what these other posters think.
I don’t quite understand why they have to say negative things about your cousin or you for trying to set them up either, and I certainly don’t understand what it has to do with Chinese people in general.
And to all you other posters, maybe, just maybe that his cousin could care less about being single, maybe he could care less about dating Western women, you guys ever thought of that?? You guys just assumed that his cousin was a white-obsessed dude who was scared huh….
Also, Chinese men (or any guy) can date Western women, even if they have never studied abroad, even if they don’t speak English….there are many ways it can work (one of them being that the female can speak Chinese). The female posters who posted in this thread has proved that.
As long as they’re happy that’s the most important thing, nothing else matters.
@ Susan Blumberg-Kason. I am so very sorry to read that you tried to date these pathetic H.K. men. I was chuckling to myself when I read that one guy only kissed you once on the cheek after being with you for so long. How pathetic!!!! Don’t my fellow Chinese men know romance? Well, let me tell you about us American born Chinese (ABC). We are not so disappointing. We are romantic. Have you read my story about my ramance and marriage to a Brazilian woman? Too damn bad that you are married or else I would have tried to intro you to some of my fellow ABC men. I look forward to seeing your book.
Can you tell the publisher to send it out quicker? I am already salivating thinking about your book. I am so curious about you and your book now.
@Fred – Funny the women involved were not offended, but some bystanders were.
Wonder if the following is a good analogy for your effort, especially the end 🙂
@chinaelevatorstories:
“Alpha” is an zoology term.
From Wikipedia: “In social animals, the alpha is the individual in the community with the highest rank. Male or female individuals or both can be alphas, depending on their species.”
“In hierarchal social animals, alphas usually gain preferential access to food and other desirable items or activities.”
“Male and/or female alphas may gain preferential access to sex or mates, and in some species only alphas or an alpha pair is permitted to reproduce.”
The Wikipedia entry goes on to explain what betas and omegas are.
Are alpha males better than the rest? I suppose if preferential access to food, resources, sex or mates sounds better, then answer is probably yes.
To put things in context here, what I was saying, is that generally a man needs to be confident, assertive, and in control to be attractive to women. And these are the alpha traits.
I think those European girls in China interpret alpha traits differently.
Not the whole world follow protestant ethics.
@Fred
Susan is more Chinese than you are.
So..
1. It is considered weird if someone doesnt want to date outside their comfort zone (more like not date white women.)
2. Asian guys who date white women are “alpha males”
3. Guys have complex about dating because they think AN ENTIRE RACE of women is somehow “out of their league””?
I feel the point of IR dating is lost if these beliefs are still being voiced on this blog. Its great to open our minds and support all kinds of IR pairings. That is enough to support a world where race barriers wont exist. I dont see why people now NEED to date another “race” of men/women for the same. Some of the replies and opinions really make me a bit uncomfortable.
“Otherwise, we would be seeing 1.4 Billion China coming up with a lot of rapes news as coming from India.”
Law and order problem. It wont happen in China or Singapore because you may get caned or hanged. Not so in India. Also customs. If a girl is raped, most likely the girl will be killed for bringing dishonor to the family!
“Because US has melted all Europeans into one pot and defined them as white, I am also being defined as Asian. It is another American thing you don’t need to take too seriously.”
Most Americans cannot look beyond race towards ethnicity. That is why some stupid American woman tried to set up a fanatic Hindoo woman from India with a fanatic moslem male from India…after all they all look the same, dont they? Race trumps religion and values does n’t it?
@Fred, I will tell you why!! Your nephew is a male that’s why. Males get criticized more often. Your nephew is lucky that he has you as his uncle. I had to look for dates . You just have to get out there and show yourself and dates will come. You don’t have to be an alpha male in order to get dates. He is one damn lucky nephew!
@Fred, who says nobody criticizes about your friend in his 50’s with gf in her 20’s ? I will talk bad about him. It’s my turn now damn it !!!!!!!! LOL ahhahahahhahah. Freaking tell him to get a woman his damn age. She is old enough to be his daughter. What the hell does she see in that old man? Aren’t young women sicken tired of smelling old men with odor?? funny. Is your friend using his young gf for threesome or group sex with other foreigners ??? Well Fred… it’s acceptable for men or asian/chinese men to have younger gfs/wives in China/Asia. I even see lots of Chinese men with wives who are half their age! I really don’t know why chinese women will accept such a big age difference. Men rule in asia I guess. You have to understand that women look for status in this world. Have you seen those movie stars and athletes with young gf 2 times their age? It’s all about being very successful and famous. Women will be attracted to you. Fred, do you understand now? I know that you and I have no problems dating western women IF we’re single right now. It’s just dating, nothing serious unless you find a very special woman. Most women will kick you to the curb or don’t even take a look at you if you don’t make any money etc..
@SBC..Funny, in the list no one mentions what the family of the white females might think..and it may be that the people who dont want to waste time with western women are thinking that most white female’s parents are racists and wont accept their daughter having a non-white boyfriend. With an Asian girlfriend it might be different..although back in the days when I was your age…in the mid 1980s, I visited a family..the guy’s sister was visiting..and she got a phone call…she got sick, was sobbing and throwing up. Fearing someone was dead, I left. Next day I asked him if everything was ok, the guy said everything was fine…ten years later, long after he had left for a different employer to another part of the country, I told his aquaintance this story…and he said, that the woman’s son had called her to announce his engagement to a Japanese-American woman from Hawaii, and she became violently ill…she wanted him to date and marry only white women…we have evolved a lot since then..only many white mothers of white daughters react that way now…so that is a significant improvement. So Frred’ nephew may have been thinking about this as well. But, is it possible that Fred’s nephew does not want to get married and people are trying to force things on him? I think this is more likely explanation than the former.
@Fred,
Are you the one married to a Brazilian woman? I mean, the same one as in a story published by Jocelyn some time ago.
I did like that story a lot, I like the mix of those cultures, brazilian people are so warm and passionate.
Don´t feel bad about any of our comments, we are here to discuss, the topic is interesting and we all have different points of view. Is not a critic about you or your acts, is a debat, a discussion. If there is controversy it means that you did a great job with this topic!
@Bruce. Thanks for your encouragement and support. I was feeling a little despondent after supply this story of my nephew due to the inordinate amount of criticisms. By the way for you info. Jocelyn changed the names of the those 4 girls as those names in the story are not the real names of the 4 American girls. But the names of my newphew and neices are real in the story. You made me feel a little better now. I was just trying to tel the truth with a little bit of humor and I did not expect so much negative criticism (although I received a few praises from some).
By they way, where do you live? Are you living in the U.S.?
@Laura. Yes, I am still married to my Brazilian babe and we have 2 children together. She is now an American citizen as I helped her adjust her immigration status. Thanks for your encouragement.
Are you married now? Are you living in China? Have you a Chinese bf? Are you a Western girl?
@Fred, I used to live in Southern California for 20 something yrs. Now I live in other state. Do you have hobbies?
@ askdsk. I do not understand why you are labelling me a racist for reporting the success story of a nerdy Asian male with a super sexy White girl. I do wish them success and I am happy for them. Would a white boy racist wish success on this AM/WW couple? Of course not. But I am wishing them well and I have a Chinese gf, so I am not a racist. We White boys see all too often that volleys of charges of racism against us when we speak our mind about something pertaining to race. While it is true that racism exists in the fabric of our society, we Whites have learned to accept and tolerate other races now unlike the days of the Jim Crow laws and the ubiquitous KKK. Now, it seems that the race card is used against us Whites so often now. For example, when a black man or an Asian male gets turned down for a job or is turned down by a pretty white gal, they immdiately think that the White employer or the white girl is a racist, and then the allegations are made. What about me? I have been turned down by Chinese girls before, but yet I do not allege that these Asian ladies were racist pigs. So, stop alleging racism unless you have a strong enough basis for saying so.
I just want to say that I love Asian girls (especailly Chinese girls). They excite me the most.
@ Fred. Thanks for sharing your story of your nephew. I wish him well and hope that one day he will come to America and try his luck on my fellow White girls.
Thanks also for sharing the story of your friend Peter. I loved it. I am happy to read that an old 53-year old White man can get himself a young pretty 23-year old Chinese girl. I feel so happy, refreshed and validated knowing that an old, bald and fat White man has a very good chance to get himself a young pretty Chinese girl in China. One day I will be old, bald and fat and I can take comfort knowing that those young pretty Chinese goddesses are readily available for a white man’s taking in China. It reminds me of the old movies (eg. “The World of Suzie Wong”) that a White boy can go to China and get himself Chinese women after Chinese women. Life is wonderful!!!!!!!!!
If you talk to Peter please get more details from him and post them here. I want to know if he was able to “score” or not and if so, how long did it take him. Thanks.
@ Bruce. I live in Torrance, CA. Are you married to a White girl just like I am? Which state do you live in? Are you and your wife an AM/WW pairing?
@ Bruce. Oops. I meant to write “Fred” and not “Red” as my name.
Height is very important ？ I come from dalian
18 to 25,Dalian men average height is 178 cm I am 184 cm tall
I am Chinese I’m proud
Usually Chinese men like Russian women
Why? Because some Russian women like Chinese men
You don’t like China man
Why are Chinese men like you So
@Manny. Thank you for your contribution to the stories here on this blog. But I am rather perturbed by your comments praising the glorious White male’s sexual conquests of Asian women. When I wrote about my friend Peter, I was neither intending to show men like yourself that Chinese women are easy to seduce and to sleep with, nor was I trying to show you that an old, bald and fat White male can easily pick up on those readily avaiable Chinese women. Firstly, you know nothing about my friend Peter or his situation. Secondly you do not know if he as a White man is old, bald and fat. For your information, he is not bald. At age 53, I do not consider him old, and he is a overweight by anyone’s standards. But you do not know why he was able to get a date with the young pretty 23-year old Chinese girl. For your information, my friend Peter is a very honest, decent and loving fellow. Perhaps it was his decency and the way that he treats people that earned him the right to be with this young Chinese lady. You seem to think that one simply has to be a White male, go to China, and then the Chinese girls will fall flat over heels for these old, bald and fat men just as the movies of the past show. I can assure you that such is not the case. One has to be a decent fellow like my friend in order to be successul. Thus, your gradiose supposition that being a White male alone is sufficient to conquer the hearts of Asian women is simply misguided. I encourage you to come to terms with reality and not base your notions on movies such as “The World of Suzie Wong.”
I definitely will report back to you and to the others as to how he met the young girl, how his date went, etc. I am willing to bet that his success was not based solely and exclusively on the fact that he was an old, bald and fat White male.
Fred, Torrance is near Redondo beach or Santa Monica Beach right? yes we are AM/WW couple and it’s not a big deal. We’re humans like everybody. Fred, white women turned you down in America and didn’t give you a chance ? Maybe you didn’t meet the right one. In the past, I asked a white woman out and she said yes. We went to dinner and talked for a long long time. She was a vegetarian so I treated her to a vegetarian restaurant. We didn’t have much chemistry. I didn’t chase her. I need chemistry okay. Before this one, I was working out at a local gym, a hot white hispanic woman always came over to talk to me. I was seeing someone during that time. Sorry I was not a player. She was hot , Fred , like “ghost chili” . Another French woman was beautiful too that I’ve met and she invited me to a show and I invited my chinese friends to come along too. Damn why didn’t I ask her out! I was busy with school man and I was not a player. I only dated one woman at a time. What a waste !! 🙂 LOL. I came from a very conversative family so I would not hurt another woman’s heart. If I had such player’s mind, I would have dated all those women. Alot of Asian women showed interest in me in the past,too. Mixed white/asian women liked me too. I told you guys right now that IF I’m single right now, I have no problems asking any women out. You will have rejections but how you climb up again and succeed. I still have this confidence in me eventhough I’m in my early 40’s . I still do bodybuilding and I have tons of hobbies etc. Maybe I’m standing at 6’1″ tall,s till can bounce my chest and around 210 lbs solid muscle, it’s easier for me to find women. I’m charismatic ,honest, charming, funny, caring and a god damn hard worker ( a freaking machine). I can work 7 days a week , 80 hrs plus if I want too. I just like to communicate and talk you to death and women love that. I better shut my mouth now before someone here says that I’m bragging too much. To you it’s called bragging , to me it’s confidence :). Okay use your chinese style and silent me and don’t reward me for being confident. soo funny 🙂 lol . That’s why I’m very different comparing to other asian men because I take everything to the extreme even with my hobbies.
I have been to Australia Russia, Italy and Spain
I don’t think they are very tall I am a young Chinese boy
Yes Russian girl is very beautiful In China Men’s eyes
Maybe Chinese men find a Russian girl is easier （Those who flirts with others will have no good ends.）
I was a northerner
Sure Chinese men like white girl Especially in Russia
@Bruce. Thanks for telling me your brief anecdote of your life. I am happy that you have no problems with women as you appear to have the physique to attract many women. I, however, am not so well endowed unlike you. I am only 5 feet and 6 inches whereas you are 6 feet and one inch. You also weight lift and muscular. I, however, am slim and slender as I jog and do some push ups and pull ups to maintaine fitness. I did not have any American women in my past and I think that it was due to my haphazard attempts at pursuing them. When I was younger, I wanted only Chinese girls but would have accepted Korean, Vietnamese and/or Japanese girls but not American girls. When I came to the realization that this was getting me nowhere I flirted with the idea of courting some Western girls. But I was hesitant. I was torn between pursuing them or not. For example, when I was single I recall one time both during before and after a deposition (as I am a lawyer) I had a good long conversation with a young knock-out brown haired and brown eyed Italian/American court reporter. She was giving me all sorts of hints but I was torn between pursuing Western girls or not, and due to this hesitation, I failed to take the initiative and failed to ask her to cross the street with me for an early dinner. During another incident, when I was single, a pretty British girl with a genuine British accent and all (you know how sexy the British accent sounds to Americans) and I were exercising at the gym in Hollywood. We made eye contact by happenstance. She smiled and said “hello” to which I reciprocated the greetings. She then accosted me for a conversation. We conversed for awhile and then I stupidly said that “well, it was nice to have talked to you as I must do my running now on the treadmill” and she left to another part of the gym. Later she returned to my station to say her good bye and I once again due to my stupidity said “good bye” without doing anything more. Why was I so stupid? It was because my heart was torn between going for these pretty White, Black and Hispanic girls or not. Half of me told me not to go for them as I am Chinese and that I love Asian women as they are pretty and slim. Then the other half of me said to go for them especially when they give you hints of interests. Due to being torn between 2 cultures, I lost. One day, I came to the self-realization that one must take a stand and either stay the course of pursuing Asian women or open my pant’s zipper to both Asian and Western women. Unless I am decisive, my life will go nowhere. So, one day I opened my zipper to all women. Soon after self-declaring acceptance of all women and not being torn between 2 sides, I scored.
Which state do you live in? Yes, Torrance is near Redondo Beach.
I think that the majority of this problem is due to cultural and psychological assumptions that white girls just don’t like or won’t mesh well with Asian guys, when that couldn’t be farther from the truth:
http://www.asianmanwhitewoman.com/
@Fred,
Nice to hear you are the one from that story.
I´m Spanish and some of my relatives ( grandpa, aunt…) are from Cuba. I live in Shanghai with my Chinese boyfriend and no I´m not married.
Jocelyn also published that story some months ago.
丁杰,
In general Mediterranean women ( Spanish, Italian, Greek,…) are not as tall as in other regions in Europe.
I guess you found Australian and Russian are taller than people in Western Europe.
@Laura. I recall your story now. I was not aware that you are the lady behind the story of the Spanish love story. Were those pictures in the story you and your boyfriend? Or were they pics of someone else?
@Laura. I read your story of how you met and fell in love with Tony. I was not aware that you are the person in the Spanish-Chinese love story, but I am so aware not. I am very happy for the 2 of you living and prospering in Shanghai. Why is a Spanish girl living in China? Were you there for study, work, business etc.? I am curious of your reason for going to the PRC. Are you discriminated against by the Chinese people? Is it very polluted? I plan to visit Shanghai and/or Beijing in the next year or 2 and thus I want to know. Thanks for answering my queries.
@Fred,
Yes that story! And sure the pictures are our pictures.
I came here to work and write my Master thesis with Siemens, once I finished it we moved to Shanghai to continue our careers. Not as a student.
Why China? Why not?! I´ve always been interested in China, during the time I lived in Finland I did a diploma in “Business in Asia” (negotiations, culture, environment,…) and then when I was living in France I found the opportunity and sure..I took it.
I´m not discriminated by local people, or at least I did not identify any sign of discrimination. I faced some discrimination a couple of times but it was not from local people, it was from foreign men, and it was related to our relationship and their anger against themselves, they could not understand anything, that could be called ignorance. 😉
I don´t think you should worry about discrimination!
It is polluted, but less polluted than Beijing, last few months the air has been really bad, my glasses were dirty the whole time and actually it was easy to feel. But since a week ago is much better again, today the weather is wonderful, sunny, hot, …I like this time of the year, not as cold as in winter and not as hot as summer!
@Fred. Firstly, I’d like to relate to your story about your friend Petrer who came to Shenzhen. Sure we don’t know this guy and we don’t know much about his life but the way you described his situation in the first post about Peter (divorced his wife when she was seriously ill, couldn’t find a job in the US, got a teaching job in China, picked up a Chinese girl that could be his daughter) painted a picture of a typical loser laowai. I believe it was not intentional since you are saying that your friend is a good, honest guy. Just try to be more careful when you’ll want to write more about this cause you can be misunderstood. Frankly, I also don’t get it why this kind of guy (in his 50’s and with a difficult past) would date such a young girl (since young Chinese people are usually very immature and even when they are in their late 20’s they act like very young teenagers… but maybe this girl is different).
Then, you asked me to write about “my story”. This is not going to happen. Basically, because there’s no “story” to write about, no “dirty juicy details”. Sorry to disappoint you. Also, I’m not this kind of person to share my life with people I barely know or people I don’t know at all. Not saying there’s something wrong about it, I just don’t feel the need to express myself in this way. Sometimes I post comments here but it’s not like I want the world to know everything about my life which is, btw, not particulary interesting.
And I’m not a communist. I thought they were extinct.
@Laura – Is the epic pigs in river event over ? Very scary. Hope you guys were not effected.
@Barbara – Any life story can be interesting depending on how you write it 🙂 I heard Polish story before, love it.
@forest,
16,000 pigs (and raising) and now 1,000 ducks (Nanhe river). Is disturbing!
@Barbara:
Thank you for calling out the emperor’s new clothes. That post is wrong on so many levels.
@Manny
The arguments you made sound familiar in any conservative media.
Fred,
We are torn by 2 cultures and it’s hurting us really bad. I live in Seattle now. It doesn’t matter where you live as long as you’re happy and I’m serious here. I was injured during an exercise a few yrs ago so I couldn’t do much then. Now I’m pumped up man!!!!! Sometimes it’s not about the height or body ,Fred. Some women will just love you regardless. My mom used to say “why are you getting so big for?”. “Some” women like to be seen with men who take care of their bodies and appearance etc ,too. Fred, it natural for me to break the ice when I talk to people now. When I was in college, I tried to ask a white gal out but she didn’t say anything so I guess I was not in her group of friends. I got rejected ,too ,okay. “Some” will reject you regardless of how you talk or look like period. They don’t even care if you’re the nicest guy in the whole wide world.If you’re a little bit successful and you drive a porche and live in a million home, see if they stick to you like bees on honey. “SOME” women are like that, what can we do…That is why I’m extremely attracted to down to earth people in general. Fred, I had the same problem when I was younger that I must dated asian/chinese women. Lots and lots of asian/chinese women liked me and there are some beautiful and hot ones . Actually, 1 to 2 asian women suggested threesome with me but you know we just talked about it. Nothing ever came out of that anyway and I was in my 20’s . Fred, actually you and I were stupid that time because we were influenced by our families, friends and societies. Damn it !!! even western women were smiling at me on a stop sign and she’s pretty ,too. There were hints allllll over but we didnt’ do anything about it. During that time, my friends at the gym and close friends from H.S. were dating and picking up western women already.. Please do something about it if all you guys are reading my comment here. Just do anything like ” I just have only a second here but I would love to chat with you later. Your #’s ? ” Complaining on why we have no dates and asian/chinese women are going with other men ( maybe asian/chinese men don’t ask them out that’s why) , won’t help.
Bruce 🙂
@Manny..dont know whether you sound like the conservative media. But, here is my take. If a Chinese woman turns down a white guy based on physical features…he does not have a flat nose or almond shaped eyes, then it is clearly racism. In other words, if a Chinese woman is willing to marry a moslem Indonesian with whom she has nothing in common but not a white guy it is racism. If a Chinese woman wants to marry a Chinese man it is cultural similarities. Similarly if a southern white woman wants to marry another white southerner who waves confederate flags, it is again an issue of culture. However, if she says she will marry a Russian from Russia who has blonde hair, blue round eyes and pointy nose but not a Chinese American, she is a racist. So it depends upon the situation. I have met both kinds of white women from the south.
@ Barabara. I am disappointed that you will not share your story with us. Perhaps one day when you feel more comfortable then you can tell us. Did you have to face discrimination in China since White girls (and white men) are few in numbers there?