Ask the Yangxifu: On Wealth/Income for Chinese Men + Western Women Couples

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Do couples of Chinese men and Western women struggle with wealth or income? That’s the question a friend posed to me by e-mail.

In the past, I’ve written about obstacles that couples of Chinese men and Western women will face in employment and earning power:

Even with a favorable visa (for example, a permanent resident card), [Chinese men] will face discrimination in hiring for jobs [in English-speaking countries] if he doesn’t: 1) know how to “perform” in job interviews; 2) have a degree from your country (remember, news about China has primed them to be suspicious about China, including Chinese credentials), or; 3) speak good English. As Jessica explains, “my husband has no marketable skills—he’s a career musician—and speaks no English. Guess where we’ll be living for the foreseeable future?”

….If your Chinese husband is not very highly educated or highly paid, you’ll almost always earn more than your husband if you live in China because of the discrepancies between expat and local salaries. A lot of Chinese men cannot handle a foreign wife as the primary breadwinner. Even Jessica’s husband, who is pretty accepting, still has trouble with the reality: “My husband is extremely unconventional and doesn’t mind being a stay-at-home dad for now. But, even for him, it gets to be a bit of a bummer that I make in a month what he used to make in a year and that he can’t contribute meaningfully to our family income at this point.”

But do these obstacles necessarily translate into financial setbacks for the rest of your life? 

On a personal level, I know that John and I weathered many hardships which have crippled our earning power. Remember the discrimination I revealed last year? I can’t give you exact details, but we sustained a major financial blow. And for much of the time we’ve stayed together, I’ve taken on the responsibility of “bringing home the baozi” (earning the money, that is ;-)), including some periods where we’ve survived on my income alone.

But that won’t last forever. He will graduate and then find a job in China, so the investment in my husband’s graduate school education will finally pay off. I also see the potential for growth in my own writing career after we return to China.

Overall, I feel as if the challenges we faced together made us stronger, and made us want to fight that much harder for a better tomorrow — including in terms of income/wealth.

But I’ve got other reasons to feel optimistic.

For example, there’s this report from the Pew Research Center from 2012, which noted that couples of Asian men and White women in the US had the highest combined income of any other pairing (yes, you read that right). Of course, we have to put these stats in perspective (after all, this groups together all Asian men in America, both foreign and native born), but the findings suggest some exciting potential for couples like us.

Lately, I’ve also noticed articles like this NYTimes piece: China’s Job Market Tightens for Young Foreigners. The flip side to it is, there are great opportunities for Chinese returning with advanced degrees. That’s why John and I will return to China — and perhaps it might make you and your Chinese beau rethink that decision to settle overseas.

Of course, not everyone will feel my optimism. Maybe you’re still not settled in your career, or maybe he isn’t, and you’re not sure where to go next. Perhaps you — like Jessica (quoted in the above article) — have a husband with “no marketable skills” who doesn’t speak your native language either, so study abroad is out of the question for your guy.

But as they always say, if there’s one constant in our lives, it is change. And that means your wealth — and fortunes — can change over time. So to all of you out there facing financial hardships, may you find prosperity in 2013.

What do you think?

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59 Replies to “Ask the Yangxifu: On Wealth/Income for Chinese Men + Western Women Couples”

  1. my boyfriend is an english teacher… but thats his only “marketable skill” which I think will not be useful to make a living in a western country unless he can study there, to do that money is necessary, a lot of money.
    Im gonna make a really private and probably off limits question, I dislike to ask about money, but Jocelyn were u suggesting in this article that u paid for John’s studies in the US?

    This topic is more and more on the table lately for me and my bf. We are starting to talk about this money things more seriously and reading info about our real choices.
    My lifestyle has always been comfortable and honestly I would like to keep it in that way.

  2. Returning to China is not as rosy as you would imagine with US degree. It depends on your skill sets. The market there is also being localized each day. But your husband should earn more than he used to be, not substantially better.

  3. Yes, China will be the next big market within 20 + yrs. America , Europe and Japan days are over / slowing down. I know a few Chinese wives were paying for their white husbands to go to school , so why can’t it be the opposite? Don’t think about it as long as there are TRUST and LOVE involved. It’s true that AMWW couples have the highest income but it possible for non resident AM with WW also. Feng Shui turns every 10 yrs and it’s proven and I’m living it. I was making 6 figures before and it’s not easy feeling your income disappearing. I used to have nothing and now is a whole different story. You have to know how to build assets, wealth, cash reserve and prepare for the worse case scenerio crisis. I don’t care if your husband is a dishwasher . Guide him to right direction. You will be suprise what 10 yrs can do to your wealth with hard work and timing. Don’t give up on yourselves and on building wealth.

  4. It all depends on life circumstances. We are a Chinese/American couple, essentially living a middle class American life. I am the main bread winner due to my chosen profession. However, I would certainly be equally happy and satisfied had my wife’s skills become more in demand. For many Chinese, thanks to Chairman Mao, gender equality is quite the norm. Whoever makes the money isn’t really an issue. (I’m from Shanghai, not sure what kind of regional difference there is.) It is mostly a personal pride issue in my opinion, which is not really great to embrace in a marriage. Not making money does not equal less value. As you all know many [email protected] moms/dads work just as hard as their partners.

  5. You know I would love to be a stay at home husband and make no money. I came to this world with nothing so I will leave this world with nothing.

  6. “For example, there’s this report from the Pew Research Center from 2012, which noted that couples of Asian men and White women in the US had the highest combined income of any other pairing (yes, you read that right).” <—- That line made me smile to no end. I feel very optimistic as well, and believe it is definitely the case. With his brains and my beauty we can get a lot done. Or is it the other way around? I think we are a good mix of both. ….OK I am totally JOKING, I swear. But in all seriousness, maybe the discrimination experienced in these unique relationships fuels us to prove ourselves and work that much harder, therefore reaping the rewards of our sincere efforts. Making more money or not, AMWF is my favorite couple pairing in the world. 🙂

  7. Well, Jocelyn, you wrote about the discrimination above. I am a Chinese man married to White woman and we live in CA and we faced no discrimination from anyone (at least none that I have detected thus far). I hope your remember me. The only discrimination that I had to face was from my own parents and one of my 2 siblings who initially opposed my betrothal to her but later they accepted her. You all can see my story here: As for finances, I have no problems if my wife makes more money than I do. To me I cannot understand why a Chinese man would feel intimidated if the Western wife (be she White, Black or otherwise) earns more then he does. After all, one should not be concerned with where the money is coming from but so long a the dough is rolling in, both should be happy.

  8. My boyfriend went to university in the UK and definitely seems to be able to be more demanding and move jobs a lot easier in China than he would back in the UK.

    Most men would probably feel a bit put out if their partner earned more than them but if you’re in a committed relationship I don’t think it particularly matters… It does mess things up a bit when it comes to having children though if the woman would prefer to stay at home but can’t – not always the case.

  9. With my western gf, I feel actually less discrimated since many believe I am more westernized than other immigrants. Yes, I feel more fit in myself with her around too.
    As for income, most western women interested in me are often of high income type. Certainly I am of high income myeself. Assortative mating? Most likely since I do have good chemistry with smart/high income type women. I just do not have many common understanding with lowly educated women. Communication with less intelligent wowen is real chanllenge. Brain attracts brain.

  10. Am without a beau, but know a lot of Asians who would love to stay in America. I sometimes think its a pity that colleges don’t really teach them how to be or act American, not that there’s something wrong with being Chinese, but for example, some friends I had have no idea that when you shake hands, you have to have a firm grip. When they shake hands, their handshakes tend to be weak. Good luck to you and your husband Jocelyn.

  11. Chinese/Asian men are very driven in education and making money! The culture makes us this way. Now that Asia is the largest CREDITOR in the world and that’s a fact. Google it and prove me wrong please . Am I boring you guys on this subject or should I move to other subjects like working out , eating healthy or firing a rifle/handgun?

    Ashleigh, it is all true but you have to find out yourself to believe it. Only problem is how to make more Chinese/asian men asking western women to start relationsips is another story :). Yup and that’s the only problem out there .

  12. The biggest problem is not money. It is mobility. Someone who is not able to speak the language or navigate the system in any country would be in disadvantage for any career. If you are a man in this situation, you will be depressed too. Discrimination is not something you can’t handle. In US, any stable and decent income can support a higher living standards comparing to China. You might have more mobility in China, but not necessarily better life.
    I don’t think most couples care if their incomes are not too far apart, at least from a man’s perspective.

  13. I understand where Jessica is coming from. My former husband was also a Chinese musician. We tried to live in the US together and it would have worked financially if we had stayed married. There are Chinese companies in large cities. And there are always music teaching jobs. We watched what we spent, but it didn’t seem like we were sacrificing our quality of life. He couldn’t handle being a stay at home dad, but if the husband is okay with that, the family can save even more money. Frankly, I think it’s difficult to stay afloat even if both people have decent jobs, no matter their nationality.

  14. Jocelyn,
    This article and your optimism come in the perfect moment to me. Seems like next months are going to be hard again! Well, as my dad said, what we should not forget is that we must be together and support each other, that should not change, it should be our fix variable
    My father always says:
    Wish this is the biggest problem you have in your life!

    And he is right!


  15. I can stay home without a problem. Damn with all my hobbies lining up . Oh goodie! I love it. 🙂

    I know lots of AM who can’t find jobs that are related to their studies in their former countries. Your degrees/ceredenitals are not certified by the U.S. institutes so it’s very hard. Some have to open businesses instead of finding jobs here. Immigrants are very driven in this countries whereas natives/Americans are slacking off. Most Americans can’t handle 12 to 16 hrs a day working. Majority of Asians CAN handle the hrs because we are used it. I was talking to a white guy last month on hobbies etc etc. I said ” why you don’t see Asians having any types of hobbies? Either they are working 24/7, playing Majong, gambling in casinos ” How many asians do you see at the gym? How many asians do you see when you’re on vacation? How many asians are committing crimes and crime rates on asians? It’s very hard to stop a person, a family and a country that are driven to succeed in education and in the financial districts. I highly recommend men staying home as a stay at home husband/dad. There is nothing wrong with it . It’s how you think as a man. The money is going in one bank acct hint hint :). Why? you are afraid that your kids are young and you have a beautiful wife working out there. You are afraid she might hook up with some young macho guy behind your back? If you think like that then you’re wrong. My CORE personality is you must exceed all her expectations and she will “love you long time ” :). She is more afraid on losing you than you leaving her!!!!! This is what I see around so I tell you guys.

    Bruce 🙂

  16. Wow Bruce, that’s way too much stereotyping! 😉 We (AM) are not all like that. I very much enjoy being a slacker myself, exercise regularly and have lots of hobbies. Everyone can succeed in his/her own way.

  17. Bo,
    Another sterotype on AM .. eating dimsum every freaking Sat and Sun with families but still skinny 🙂 ( old sterotype) or hanging out in coffe shops BSing for hrs and then go home. 🙂 LOL.

    Just don’t give up on building a healthy , happy relationship, you will be fine. To many people, having money is the main equation to having a stable relationship. I will disagree on that argument because I and many people I know have gone thru having nothing to having something. The secret is not about how much you make! It’s how much you’ve saved and invested wisely. Money can destroy a relationship too when it is not used for the good of the family’s interest. Remember you earn your money once you spend it on YOURSELF. You can have millions on real estates and millions on your bank acct and just look at those zeros on your statements. Your health and your lifestyle look like S..t when you don’t spend on yourself. When you’re ready to die, you only benefit your kids ( they will spend foolishly). In conlusion, have a wonderful woman who will understand the word “saving” and build wealth with you. You two must understand the importance of unity ( teamwork). Spend on something that will have memories for yrs to come like vacations. Buy real estates for investments with cash or very little loan on it. Buy gold when it’s low , not now. Why didn’t I buy gold 10 yrs ago !! ( bad move on my part, banging on the wall right now ) Don’t buy new or expensive cars ( depreciation) unless you drive for 15 yrs or more. Eat real food( healthy) and exercise . Why? When you’re sick in America WITHOUT health insurance, you will be bankrupted!!!!!!!!!!!! Never compare with your families, friends or neighbors on what they have. You have to know your limits. Nobody’s income is equal . Many smart people suffered in thise weak economy too so please talk to people who know their stuff. Buy or build something that will have everyday value for your family. Teach me something that I don’t know all you masters out there. I’m just a naive , country boy . 🙂 🙂 🙂

  18. @Bruce,
    I find it very funny when Chinese stereotype about Chinese..
    – How many Asians (Chinese) are there in my gym? All of them, and of course the teachers are also Chinese.
    – Do you see Chinese in vacations? This is the best one cause that’s the only thing I see! If you go to France or Spain you can see Chinese tourists everywhere! And is not for 1 week, is a 1-2months trip. You go in the streets and you see groups of people with a small red flag.
    And if you go to the visa office of some countries in Shanghai, you will see how long are the lines to apply for tourist visa, as a fact some of the Consulates have outsourced this service and is not possible to apply for a visa there unless you plan to apply for more than 90days.
    Now to apply for it there is another intermediary, what means, much less work for Consulates, and higher fees for the customer.

    I know several girls in Shanghai who work in schools providing administrative support and they have holidays 2 months in the summer, plus Christmas.

    As my boss used to say: Many Chinese offices will end having holidays like in Europe, while in Europe we cant afford it so we are reducing the amount of holidays.

    And this was based in the fact that many offices in the building closed during Christmas while we opened.

  19. @Naive country boy (Bruce): You think you know what you’re talking about but you don’t. So Asians do a lot of gambling at the casinos? You must be talking about yourself or casinos in Asian countries. Are you saying Asians who make lots of $$$ tend to stuff their $$$ under their mattresses and not spend it? In the U.S. you can see Asians carrying Louis Vuitton and Prada handbags and driving BMW and Lexus. My Asian friends and colleagues take their families on vacation all the time. Hawaii and Las Vegas (not for gambling) are their favorite destinations. AMs hanging out in coffee shops for hours? Yes but the Asian men that you’re talking about are the elderlies. I don’t know any Asians who prefer to stay home and not work. The only ones who stay home are the ones without jobs. So immigrants are hard working and Americans are slackers? Wow that’s insulting to the non Asians on this blog. Lots of immigrants are receiving some type of entitlement and are definitely not hard working. A lot of them don’t even bother to learn English. The best companies in the world are U.S. companies like Cisco, Apple, Google, Boeing, and IBM, so I don’t think Americans are necessarily slackers.

  20. I want to comment on AMWW pair has highest income level, assuming all the research data are from US.
    During a party conversation, someone brought up the topic of why Asian are smarter. The discussion led to the conclusion: 1) Asians are not smarter, they just work harder 2) the fact of Asians in US are smarter is due to SELECTION process. i.e. the smart, adventurous and capable people could settle in US (the visa process for Asian is the strictest). When a person is smart, adventurous and capable, and he is doing his best to make a living, chances are he will make it eventually. This applies to just about any one, any race. I know a student from European, working really hard and very smart. I can literally see the copy of myself and I have no double she will make it.
    As we know, the first generation Asian will likely to marry each other, therefore leaving the best quality to their offspring. If you count Asian students in Ivy league, most of them are born in US.
    Second generation of Asians have very high chance of marry out. So the result of the research may heavily concentrated in second generation of Asians. The fact that AMWW earns more than WMAW, in my opinion, is again selection process. We all are aware the discrimination of college admission in that Asian boys are hold at a higher standard. That drives us working even harder and making the profession choices toward higher earning areas. At the same time, girls are given more freedom, knowing they have a recourse of marry to someone and stay home.

    On the topic of stay at home Dad. If you have the brain, you can always learn more skills through whatever way, school, job, spare time, etc. Personally, I can never be a stay at home Dad. I have skills across many areas and are very good at all of them. I don’t worried about finding jobs or holding on a job. If I really have to stay home, I will start my own company. I learnt my current job skill in my spare time, reading books and most importantly thinking outside the box. It is a chicken and egg process that eventually leads me to where I am.

  21. @Derick @Laura @Bruce – What you observed may all be true. But we may want to take into account of which country, what area, etc.
    In US, Asians population are small, the tourist destinations, where international tourists are not going (e.g. ski resort), have fewer Asians. However, that does not translate into Asian is not going to vacation. At least I do every year. Same goes true to the gym. I go the gym often, depending on the time of the day, you can see more or less Asians in the gym. The later time you go, the more you see.
    While Asians go to gym, fewer of them takes classes for some reasons. I am the only Asian in my class.

  22. Derick,

    I love it. Please continue! Sorry I don’t gamble and not even $50 on gambling. Go to Las Vegas and look at all those people with black hair ( asians) and look at most casinos on decorations etc ( their decorations are catered to asians). Look at casinos in Southern Calif ( 90% asians) . Ask your avg Americans if they can handle 6 to 7 days , 12 to 14 hrs a day work load. On average, how many people are working 70 to 80 hrs a week? “In the U.S. you can see Asians carrying Louis Vuitton and Prada handbags and driving BMW and Lexus. “- Yes , on those items only right? I don’t see alot of Asians in American style restaurants. Maybe just 1 or 2 couples. I wonder where do those asians hang out. Where? “The best companies in the world are U.S. companies like Cisco, Apple, Google, Boeing, and IBM, so I don’t think Americans are necessarily slackers.” – I think you only like to compare the best. Do you understand the word “AVERAGE”? Average people are the people who are your neighbors, strangers, friends etc NOT your high salaries folks. Do you know 160 million Americans are receiving some kind of food stamps/gov’t assistance these 2 to 4 yrs? Asians will learn English if they move away from Chinatown. People who are in the comfort zone, they won’t learn to speak English. To me personally, I don’t think older immigrants should come to America. Why older immigrants should stay back home in Asia? I don’t know tell me. Educate me please. “My Asian friends and colleagues take their families on vacation all the time. Hawaii and Las Vegas (not for gambling) are their favorite destinations”- Only Hawaii and LV? I don’t see alot of asians in other parts of America dude. I used to live in California for 20 yrs since in the early 80’s and now I live in other part of America.

  23. @Laura,

    How come I don’t see you at the gym? 🙂 j/k. Only these few yrs, you see more and more Mainland Chinese coming /going to other countries on vacations because they are making more money than 20 yrs ago. Within this 10 yrs, you hear alot on Chinese people are buying up companies in America, Australia etc. With money, you will have more freedom and Mainland Chinese are moving everywhere in the world now.

  24. @ Bruce,
    Which one is your gym?! Maybe we know each other ! 😉 I go to spinning, we are mainly women!

    Of course, it depends on the location. I live in Shanghai so if I dont see Chinese people here at the gym…! 😉
    France has a lot of Chinese tourists, and is very interesting when you can see them buying luxury brands and carrying all those bags. I do find thats very interesting, I love to observe people.
    Because it is not the same to buy a LV in China than saying: I bought it in Paris. That makes a difference!

    Regarding tourism in Spain, you mainly find Asian tourist in Costa del Sol, Costa Brava, and Madrid. Though in my province we have a very large amount of Chinese people, but not as tourist. Most part of them moved there with their families many years ago and they own shops /restaurants.

    What I find very interesting is that they all come from Wenzhou, and they are all of them somehow related.


  25. @Laura I also live in Shanghai (Laura where do you live in Shanghai do you live?) and my gym is mostly Chinese and they do all forms… (gym) work outs, spinning, aerobics, yoga and belly dancing classes, it’s great to see.

    From the Chinese men I have spoken to most if not all will say that “it’s a man’s responsibility to make money”, I think it depends on the character of the man ( or rather the individual whether it be man or woman); his belief in himself, his attitude, how he feels about himself, how he handles external factors such as family and friends; also his feelings, beliefs and attitude towards his western girlfriend ( does he respect himself and well as her)

    I agree with Bruce you should never compare yourself to others; I think most issues and problems in one’s self is caused through wanting superficial things and not really knowing or understanding one’s self but comparing yourself to others and believing what they have will make you happy. “I want it because so and so has it”, ” I will be happy and successful once I have….”

  26. @Laura – Now that makes sense 🙂 But why women like spinning ? It is mainly leg workout. Not much of whole body workout. Isn’t it ?

    @Bruce – Agree with you on the observation of gambling. Although I don’t gamble, but I know an Asian guy messed up his credit card and then his friend’s credit card on gambling! Watch out for those gamblers 🙂

    After reading about Chinese tourists, I started to think I am going to the wrong places for vacation, hehe.

  27. @Laura, America still has the CHEAPEST BRAND NAME PRODUCTS like LV, Rolex watch etc comparing to China. We are still numero uno in terms of prices. Some mainland CHinese will buy expensive brands here because it’s 3 times more expensive in China. For example, a $30k Rolex in the U.S can sell $90k- $100k in CHina. Most will buy here and sell to their friends in China so the trip will be paid for. Driving expensive cars and wearing expensive brand name clothes or having brand name purses don’t mean that you have lots of money. Seriously, I’ve analyzed this . We have a financial crisis in America since 2007 because we use too much CREDIT on everything. I can buy a $100k BMW/Mercedes tomorrow on my credit lines tomorrow if I want to but it’s a liability for the long term. This car doesn’t not bring in longterm returns. Sorry, I don’t live in Shanghai or else I will be the greatest Shanghai man ever. Soo funny!

    @Cvaguy – Asians are very HARDCORE in gambling in the world. All of you don’t have to take my word for it. Give you goosebumps!

    I have helped so many people built credits and getting others and friends off debts. They were just living above their means. $1.6 millions home with 30 yrs loan, expensive cars $90k-110k (2 cars). Now they are back on track and very happy. At least this naive ,country boy (me) helps those city boys realized that having a meaningful life and working on your own terms are more important than those “things”.

  28. @ Mira,
    In Nanxiang, I go to Jiangsu road almost dialy, Jing´An temple district. Where do you live?

    Cardiovascular health, lung capacity ( speed ups help to control breathing), it relaxes a lot (adrenaline), shapes legs as you said, also helps a bit with abs and burns fat.
    Plus is fun! cause is a work out with music, and is in group but at the same time each person his own bike…
    The most important one is that after it I feel like I was on holiday and my mind is just..relaxes, (also my legs feel sleeply).

    @ Bruce,
    I dont know about in US, but in France, those brands are expensive, and wel if you count the flight from China to those countries… I also think buying a LV in Paris is much more ” fashionable” than US cause people identify the brand with it!


  29. Hi Laura,

    We are close….I live on the corner of Shaanxi Nan Lu and Changle Lu in Jing an!!!!! I use to live near Jing an temple last year but moved.

    We should have coffee one day?

  30. Isn’t a family built based on love? Isn’t the nature of love is to give and to contribute? If the answer is yes, why bother who is the breadwinner?

  31. @Laura

    Weekends are best for me? How about you? During the week I travel outside for work so not always in Shanghai but always home for weekend. Any time suits me!!!!

    @Julian ….you are right in what you say but a persons own personal belief, what they were told and tought as children, their pride and sometimes even ego can be a greater influence then love.

  32. @mira,
    We can meet during the weekend if you want. Usually I stay in Shanghai with my couple the weekends, sometimes we are out to Suzhou.

  33. I know a friend who was dumped indirectly by his ex gf decades ago and went with another “wealthy” man. Til now, she is not happy with that “wealthy” man. My friend suddenly fought back by getting very successful at his job making 6 figures salary . He realizes that having more money only make life better but money will not completely make you fully happy. His ex gf regretted what she had done.

    You know many men like me are willing to be a stay at home husband/dad. I used to work extremely hard to buy a home for us and bought other investment homes and built some savings/ 5 yrs emergency reserve. Right now, even rich people worry about his economy . Lots of people around talk to me so I know . If you are the types of couples who have separate bank accts are the people who afraid of commitment. You don’t even trust each other . How can you move to anothe level? Maybe it’s just a BUSINESS DEAL for you just for the lifestyle. You can make 6 figures a yr but how long can your career makes that kind of money. If I’m a single guy and making zero or less than 6 figures, will women want me? Mostly likely they will kick me to the curb. For “some” women , they see the potentials and my abilities then they will stick to me like leeches. Once you’ve found your soulmate, it’s okay for her to hold all the money and let her wear the pants in the family for once. Read my lips again!! make you sure you know 200% that she is the lifetime woman for you. Don’t just let any women do that. With Power, there comes respect, responsibility and understand the word unity. Maybe I’m just a naive , country boy, I don’t know anything better.

  34. Hello Jocelyn – I’m not sure if my comments will help, because it sounds like you’re talking about a Chinese-national, and maybe at a certain age in your lives?

    There is a segment of Chinese and Taiwanese men who are skilled in IT/Computer Science and Engineering, and H1-B visas can be available.

    I’m 40, and Juliet is 36. Plus, we’re both American, live in the U.S., speak English fluently, and have job skills that are generally marketable. And we didn’t face discrimination in the workplace. After we had our first baby, there were times when we really tightened our belts and had to pawn off some of our valuables. I remember once when we had $70 to stretch over a week for groceries, because we were broke. I was and still remain the sole breadwinner, and today, I provide for Juliet and 3 kids.

    It’s certainly tough, but generally, I think Chinese men can be frugal and disciplined with their finances. Not always, though. My mother and a few male relatives just love to gamble. Bad.

    I haven’t reviewed the Pew Research Center analysis, but just by observation, I do notice that Asian-American men are going better professionally and financially versus their other American male counterparts. We’re the nerdy guys that studied hard, got degrees in engineering, medicine, law, etc., so I guess in the long run, it paid off for us. Too bad it didn’t help us get more dates!

    Michigan, U.S.

  35. Do you know why we don’t get more dates? We just don’t look for dates that is why. I don’t care how much you make. You have to look for dates man. CHinese/Asian men have to learn how to hit on women. Chasing women is a whole different story from studying and making money. Even online western males ( whites , latinos, blacks ) listing ads to slap some ass with women and now they are targeting asian women ,too. Check out how many asian men online are chasing after women. Seriously.. we are from a difficult culture so others will think that we are weak but we’re not. You just have to learn how to talk to women and I do mean it.

  36. It is familiar struggle for any immigrant trying to make it on foreign land. Everyone likes happy ending. Reality is cruel and often unforgiving.There is no Asian miracle. Anyone who tries hardest to adapt and learn can go a little further. It often requires you to shed your old identity and claim a new one. If you are lucky, you can even taste many faces of ingenuity. It gets even harder when you are stuck in a place between two countries or cultures.

  37. Dear Bruce,
    Please, no more of your “wisdom.” Your experience is not representative of all Asian/Chinese men. As a first generation immigrant who married a white American girl, I hardly share anything you posted. I almost feel bit ashamed of your “over-confidence” and the “know-it-all” attitude. Isn’t humility one of the chief Chinese virtue? Asian/chinese are no different than any other people deep down. We all share the same joy, sorrow, hope, and anxiety. Whomever you marry, it takes effort and sacrifice to build a relationship. Cultural difference does make it bit more challenging, but the essence is the same. Keep our diversity in mind, let’s focus more on our commonality than our difference. We are not of a different breed.

  38. Bo,

    You don’t like to “share” but I love to share :). If we are willing to share our commonality, we should have more dates :). Okay I’ll cool down but I want you to comment more and that applies to all you men out there.

    Bruce 🙂

  39. Humility and being humble only work for some people. Don’t feel ashamed of me. No need to save face anymore. Sorry , I’m not a traditional Chinese man. I can assume all you Chinese guys out there that being humbled and show humility will not get you any chicks especially Western women ( whites, blacks, green etc). Chinese men can have lots of things in common with western women BUT those women don’t give you a chance. Without poeple/women giving you chances, it doesn’t matter how nice, how humble and how such a wonderful person you are. “Your experience is not representative of all Asian/Chinese men.” – I know that but how come I don’t see more than 10 chinese men here telling us how they feel ? See by showing humility and be quiet, people/ chinese people /westerners don’t even learn anything here. Sometimes, just by talking isn’t enough. YOU HAVE TO SHOW THEM HOW.

  40. Economics will tell you that an individual will maximize his or her income subject to certain constraints. If that is the case we will see a lot of Asian male-white female couples. However, such a pairing is still among the least likely. Tells you economics does not work all the time.

  41. One more thing I want to say here and it’s not a personal attack. A Chinese/ Asian man can make 6 figures or more ,but he may not receive any RESPECT from other western men ( White, black , latin etc). Making more money doesn’t mean you will get respect. Why do I always say again and again here that you have to excel in ALL CATEGORIES ( personality, education, physique ( muscles) etc) ? You make 6 figures but you keep on hiking in the bushes. so what !! Hint hint look at Silicon Valley. Why asian men are/were facing bamboo ceiling/glass ceiling there? Now you know why so many asian men have to start their own computer/electronic companies. When they don’t respect you ( asian men) , that is why you can not become executives. Of course, they always claim that Asian men don’t have leadership and only work like robots. Look again on how Asia is doing w/ their companies/economics. So respect is very important. Without respect , there will be no chance for you buddy. There is another sterotype that asian men are not violent. I can be violent within seconds when someone messes with me in person. I don’t advice you guys to be like a wild men but at least show some aggression so people will respect you in their mind. Most Chinese/asian people haven’t changed for 1000 yrs, it’s time for some changes.

  42. @Bruce – Agree with you on this one. Respect is earned, not necessary due to personal wealthy, but due to personality. I live in an affluence area, but even I don’t have any respect for some Asian men, who make 7 figures but so snobbish I just can’t stand it.
    I rather be with the group of friends who are down to earth, treat people as equal, open minded and share common interests.

    At work, most of my Asian colleagues are happy to work for others, follow instructions, keep quiet, get paid by bosses who think enough to keep them there, like any other employee. Not much female colleagues like to socialize with them other than work for them to do. For those Asian men who don’t have management experiences, keeping quiet is the worst thing you can do in workplace, speak up, make mistakes, and learn from mistakes, you will see the glass ceiling will start to shatter. What is the worst thing can happen when you speak up ? Your female colleagues will start to ask you to do lunch, coffee, whatever 🙂

  43. @cvaguy,
    I agree with that. Keeping quite at workplace is not what usually employers want, but alos employers should not judge employees from what they see at workplace.
    Currently I am searching for jobs in Shanghai, and I promise you that many of the employers want quiet employees.
    From a personal point of view, my best friend is Chinese, and he is having many problems at work because the way they “motivate” the team. It is a motivation based in “blaming you”, it is not negative feedback with support and feedbacks for improvement, it is directly “blaming”.
    You are not good, your voice is ugly, your English is bad, you have no skills…

    So I would say, good employers apply what you say, they want people with people skills, bad employers want to “own” employees and they need weak people…

    But maybe I´m wrong!


  44. @Laura – Every company has its own culture. A successful company has to tap into every employee’s talent, every culture’s advantage, and yet not to loss control of the situation and can get thing done effectively. It is true that not every company is looking for out spoken personality, top performer, or smart people, company is looking for people that are ‘fit’. I was interviewing with a large corporation before, the gentleman was an older guy. After I was energetically telling him I was top performer, the reaction I got was not what I expected. I knew he did not want to hire me. He was looking for someone to help him, not someone to replace him.
    Not sure how mobile one can be in China nowadays, but if mobility is not an issue, I think your friend should start to look for a new job. What you do is not that important, enjoy what you do is very important.
    Regardless, out spoken personality has more benefits than draw backs, even in a company that wants only weak people. I went from a person of ultra shy to a person of comfortably speaking out in public. I have to say I enjoy new me much better. I used to hate who I was, thought I was too stupid, too ugly, and no one cares about me, etc. Just short of killing myself. Now I am happy and confident, surrounded by intelligent, beautiful, caring friends. All because my personality is well liked. If I go back to old me, they will dump me in no time 🙂
    In short, I rather be the one who is loved or hated by others, than the one who is invisible.

  45. @cvaguy,
    Totally right, sometimes they are a bit afraid of outgoing people. I feel very comfortable speaking out in public, though I´m aware my English level is not so good and “foreigners” know that I´m not from an English speaking country but last Master director said that sometimes have a different accent can play a good role in your career, if people like your country. He said: If you do a good presentation, good English but your accent is from your own country, they will remember what you did cause they remember you were the one smiling, and with that interesting accent.
    (Wish that was like that always!)

    I rather be myself than faking my own personality, and that´s why finding a good job is being a hard task!

    But I still believe people who are shy are great employees too, at last, teams must be a combination of great people with different skills, backgrounds and personalities. If everyone is outgoing and is an enngineer then well…all the points of view will be the same and there will be no good brainstorming!

  46. Another thing is discrimination/racism at the work place. Sometimes, Chinese /Asian men/women will not be promoted to executive positions due to race issue. “Majority ” of WHites don’t like/feel comfortible that an Asian person is telling them or ordering them what to do. Another definition to explain this is that they don’t RESPECT you so they don’t listen to you. I don’t care if your grandpa was born in the U.S, still there something holding you back.

    Someone here said that immigrants work in the restaurants, nail shops blah blah blah? Do you think they want to work there ?? duhhhhhhhhhh! Washing dishes and washing someone’s feet for a living? I have a new immigrant business idea for America and that is WASHING SOMEONE’S ASS/ASS…. with a 10 feet pole attached with a sprayer ( 1600 lbs psi) ! Everything and I mean everything flies all over! Great idea but save for next discussion :)LMAFO 🙂 lol .. Most Asians I know who work in restaurants and nail shops actually have degrees in their asian countries. Those degrees are not recognized in America . Okay, how come they don’t work 9-5 jobs like most Americans ( yes some do) and most of them rather work in the restaurants and nail shops 12 to 14 hrs a day. Why? they make way more by working in restaurants and nail shops. Their kids for sure will never work in the restaurants and nail shops in the future. Almost all immigrants don’t want their kids to follow their parents’ foot steps unless they have a chain of stores.

    Bruce 🙂

  47. Bruce:

    Go to some of the top engineering schools and check out who have been recently appointed to administrative positions. Of course, universities are exceptions to the general rule you are talking about!

  48. Corporate citizenship promotes a set of values that are not always in line with your own. But you also don’t have to cater to all of them. The game also changes at executive level. Soft skills are over rated.

  49. @askdsk – How would soft skills be over rated ? It is under rated amount Asians, I believe. Who would you rather be with to in a party full of strangers? People who don’t smile and talk or funny chatterbox?

    @Laura – Searching for a good job is always a difficult task. But a person who has a bubbly personality would have an advantage 🙂

  50. @Laura – No. Company also means people that are with you (as in “keep me company”). You spend more than 8 hours a day with your colleagues, better be damn sure to socialize with each other 🙂

  51. Ahh I missunderstood, I understood he / she prefers to use Corporation.
    Anyway I did not think about the company meaning, great idea!
    In other countries Corporation is a different kind of business, aa “family” business, therefore the environment is more comfortable and familiar!

  52. I would like more asians to create more companies in foreign countries. There are lots of companies that are formed by asians. We just need to branch out and be recognized that we can be on our own. Small businesses are the backbone of America. Hey, if they won’t give you a chance in managerial and executive positions for being asian while you’re qualified, CREATE YOUR OWN COMPANIES. Don’t wait for the gov’t and big corporations to give you a job!!

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