People Who Feel Like They Own the Opposite Sex of Their Race and Culture

This photo of a marriage registration in Beijing was taken two days before the woman was stabbed to death by a Chinese man who hated Americans. I wondered, did he mean “American men” by that, and was he another example of someone who thinks they own the opposite sex of their own race/culture?

It’s funny how things in life mysteriously collide – that two seemingly unrelated events I’ve heard about recently actually have something in common. Specifically, the concept of people who feel like they own the opposite sex of their race or culture.

The first is the stabbing murder of an innocent Chinese woman in Beijing just married to a French man, a confirmed hate crime prompting my recent post, Is Beijing Becoming Dangerous for Couples of Foreign Men and Chinese Women?

In the discussion in the comments section, I noticed that people started linking this murder to the idea of people who feel like they own the opposite sex of their race/culture. See this comment from A. Madhavan:

I can’t help but notice the deep misogyny in this murder – many times when we date out of our race/nationality, men of our race will try to “claim” us and shame us for dating/marrying outside of it. As if we are pieces of property and only belong to them. I have seen this happen with white men to white women; black men to black women; Indian men to Indian woman – how dare a [sic] we women marry outside her race and have complete autonomy over our decisions? It is threatening to A LOT of people…

And this comment from R Zhao:

This sometimes happens in America, too. It happened to me when I was dating a black American man. I was accused by a small group of black women (who I didn’t know) of “taking one of theirs.” I didn’t realize it at the time, but I think there is a lot of frustration. Black women face a lot of discrimination while dating and have a significant smaller dating pool than white women do because of cross-race dating preferences. This happens to Asian men as well.

To be sure, there is a shortage of women here in China because of the gender imbalance, leading to a growing population of unmarried bachelors in China’s countryside known as “bare branches”. According to this article from Tea Leaf Nation, “an estimated 12 to 15 percent of Chinese men — a population nearly the size of Texas — will be unable to find a mate within the next seven years.” Personally, I’ve even heard Chinese men who lament that China is “exporting” far too many of its women overseas.

The Shanghaiist confirms in a recent story that the Sanlitun killer “said he ‘hated Americans’ before attacking Chinese-French couple in Beijing,” specifically asking the woman’s husband if he was an American before stabbing him and his wife. And while it’s never explicitly stated, I can’t help but wonder, does this man represent the anger and frustration of millions who feel a certain entitlement to Chinese women over foreigners because of the shrinking dating pool?

Obviously, this is an incredibly complicated and potentially delicate issue, depending on who you are and whether you’re one of the folks facing a more limited dating pool simply because of your race and/or culture.

What’s your take on this? What do you think about the idea of people who think they own the opposite sex of their own race/culture? Is it ever justified? Sound off in the comments.

UPDATE: I’ve edited this post because that some of the content was inappropriate and insensitive towards the Jewish community. I made some poor choices in what I had written and failed to consider how my words might actually come across to readers (including the individuals I had specifically mentioned in this post). I want to apologize for this mistake.

Thank you to those people who were courageous enough to reach out to me to point out the errors in the original content. I wanted to append this apology to let you know I’ve learned a tremendous lesson in the importance of being sensitive about how groups of people are portrayed on this blog, as well as what should and should not be quoted in posts. 

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59 Replies to “People Who Feel Like They Own the Opposite Sex of Their Race and Culture”

  1. You should look at /r/China that place is utterly toxic. There are 1000s of sexpats on there who pretty much state that Chinese women belong to white men. They even use the pejorative term rainy and denigrate any Chinese as butt hurt small dick losers if ANY criticism is given.

  2. First of all, the thought of one race being superior, that one anyone owns the opposite sex of their own race/culture/religion sounds like a National Socialist idea to me. Wasn’t it only 70 years ago, when races were divided in Europe, Aryans were better than others and should only marry and “breed” with other Aryans? Wasn’t Apartheid in South Africa only ended in 1990? Or in the United States until 1964? Wasn’t it already long time ago that we decided that our ancestors were wrong about their ideas?
    Why does anybody reserve their right to “own” another person, when Slavery is already outlawed in all countries (although it still does exist even now)? Wouldn’t one think that everyone who knows the facts of life is bewildered of the idea to “own” someone, or to take absolute precedence over someone just because they are of the same race/culture/religion? Wouldn’t one think that live would be so much more diverse if one would just open their mind to other people’s ideas and way of life?
    Why do they need to play the “You stole someone from my race”-card? Isn’t it like the same as saying “You are an immigrant, you are stealing jobs from non-immigrants”? Wouldn’t then these who offened Rosie be in the position of immigrants (descendants of slaves who are not originally from the US (but who is?)), and wouldn’t it be like they wished themselves to be out of the country?
    Sorry, I’m tired already, must go to bed… Just my brain fart.

    1. Why do they need to play the “You stole someone from my race”-card? Isn’t it like the same as saying “You are an immigrant, you are stealing jobs from non-immigrants”?

      For white men , I suppose it stems from racist feelings , but as an asian man things are not that simple. And no , it it is not the same as saying “your an immigrant , you are stealing jobs from non immigrants”

      For one , that’s talking about a job. When your talking about dating , your not being picked because of your ability to make her happy. No , most of the time , the media is influencing who she will date. And who does american society hate the most? Asian men of course. This isn’t meritocracy , where your picked according to your abilty , its social justice. There’s not black and white , its grey all the time.

      For every white man that dates an asian women , thats one less asian women for asian men. I forgot , there’s even Asian women who tell asian men that “They would never date an asian men”. I think asian men might be the only men that have to deal with things like this in America. And before you tell me that I am making stuff up : What the guy discusses in this video: is a common sentiment that has been EXPERIENCED by many asian men in America.

      Your really naive if you think that we should all have equality based on your privileged viewpoint of being a white women who isn’t discriminated in society, except for the fact women are hyper sexualized, and earn less then white men. Well guess what? Go discuss this with the Patriarchy , the same very men who were the ones to instigate Anti-miscgenation laws forbading Chinese /Asian men to marry anyone of white color.

      Should we just roll over and let white men take advantage of asian women? And if you think that White male asian female couples are a beacon of equalit, The following is from a study: Relevance of Race: Children and the Shifting Engagement with Racial/Ethnic Identity among Second-Generation Interracially Married Asian Americans

      “It is worthwhile noting the reasons that the female respondents gave for not finding Asian males appealing. The simple “numbers” explanation, such as that given by Kira, was belied by other reasons offered; for most of the women, not [surprisingly, they viewed Asian men they knew or grew up with as falling short of the ideal American masculinity.] The respondents uniformly referred to the widely held stereotypes of Asian men as being “geeky” and seemed to buy into it. ” And wait , who perpetuated this sterotypes perpetuated by ? None other then white men.

      Oh yeah, what about the hundreds if not thousands of white men who go to asia to take advantage of their white priviledge so they can be sexpats? There’s a special reason why you see so many WMAF couples and so little AMWF couples.

        1. if a chinese man here to talk what wrong with people hating interracial couple” WMAF” it sounds fine cause there is actually no reason to hate it. but seriously, “WMAF” does not have too much good reputation and it’s been suspected such as hatred of asian men, desire to whiteness and status. it’s not that bad to a AMWF cause from what i observed they’re doing fine in china. perhaps not in USA, whites men laugh at asian men getting married with whites girls by calling him” not a real man” blah blah and seems on this planet only them could date women from all ethnics.. but it’s true, isn’t??? while asian men are in much inferior situation when it comes to interracial dating. so none of black men will blame white men dating a black girl as they are in bottom of women racial on dateable degree as black men’s situation is much better than asian men as well. so think wise and twice before you post your view

  3. No. It is never justified. We don’t own people of my race, your race, or any other alien race as yet to be discovered.

    And hey, here’s a bonus! If you accept a person’s right to autonomy, you never have to come up with convoluted rationalizations to dislike their choices or try and talk them into your views, either.

    Even better, you don’t feel the need to stab them.

    1. These people seem like they are bored or unsatisfied with their own lives, so that they need to destroy other people’s.
      Like they can’t achieve anything by themselves and blame it on others. And why not just on people of other race/culture? Cause they are an easy target as history shows and these people will most likely find others to join their stupid ideas.

  4. My only experience with this is that my (white) father told me that I was “denying my own race” by dating Asian men. Ew ew ew. This sounds like Nazi s*** to me. It was shocking to hear because he works with Asian colleagues and I didn’t think of him as a racist person before that incident.

  5. To regard the issue as a case of people believing that they own the men/women of their race is misleading and oversimplifying things; it has more to do with the desire to maintain national/racial integrity than a genuine belief that property has been violated somehow.

    And as KenM has suggested, in the case of China, it has to do with resentment against white privilege and the contempt with which white men in particular have regarded Chinese people (note that in the Sanliturn incident the killer made a point of inquiring whether the man was American, as Americans are perhaps the quintessential representation of white privilege in Chinese eyes). Generally speaking, Chinese people are surprisingly relaxed about the idea of their women marrying out and it’s partly because of the inherent sexism in the traditional Chinese culture.

  6. I get what you are saying…..“White man” , “White man’s privilege” “White man’s supremacy”, “White man this”, “White man that”, but It’s a broken record that gets repeated again and again and again. Is it true most likely, is it fair no but guess what the world we live in is unfair, people are unfair, life and circumstances are unfair, we get what we get and if lucky ( because not everyone is ) we can make choices to change and better ourselves, our beliefs our circumstances, we can accept that this is the way it is or we hold onto the anger and resentment.

    When you talk about “White man” who are you referring to just American’s? White = not just American’s but a multitude of many countries and many nationalities who like D-Maybe said “maintain national and racial integrity”. And sometimes it’s not the “white man” who perpetuates these stereo types but our own kind and the beliefs that have been installed/taught/brainwashed into each individual.

    Chinese girls now have more choices (?) then they did 10 or 20 years ago, my guess is that mum and dad still hope their daughter will marry a Chinese man (but even marrying a Chinese man comes with restrictions and standards). Chinese girls are choosing to date and marry foreigners for many reasons e.g. Money, convenience, to leave the country, LOVE, better life, politeness, etiquette, “gentlemen like behavior”, they don’t want to marry their own kind or they’ve married Chinese men, divorced them and want to marry a foreign man because they believe a foreign man will treat them better.

    Actually when we’re dating or marrying we (not all) do subconsciously presume we “own each other”. Who hasn’t heard someone say “his all mine”, “eye’s off she’s mine”, “she’s my women”, “keep your hands off his my guy”. There’s ownership in these words and it comes out of the mouths of men and women from all walks of life and every colour.

    1. I don’t bring up white privilege because I like to whine about how unfair the world is; I do it because it’s relevant to the discussion. We’re talking about the assumption of ownership that people appear to have regarding men/women of their race and the problems it causes, and in response, I’m saying that resentment of white privilege is more likely the underlying cause of the problems in China.

      And we’re not talking about people who are in a relationship (married or otherwise); we’re talking about people who appear to assume ownership of strangers simply because they belong to the same race.

      Also, the suggestion that we should simply accept the world as it is — unfair though it may be — is absurd. Sure, by all means, we should do what we can to better ourselves, but that doesn’t mean we can’t also highlight the inequality that exists in the hope of eradicating it.

  7. hanks for bring this topic up again. Jocelyn.
    Me as a Chinese man , one of 30 million singles guys in China, and forced to be A bare branch, cause there are out no women on my age to date…… as you wrote , it is true that waiting for a decades there are many out-optioned Chinese men will be ending up alone
    Ironic thing is that I was once in 5 years of relationship when I was in late 20s, with an American Caucasian girl, due to long-distanced and cross-cultured and she finally couldn’t hold up to it, and sleeping with other men then we forever broke up. Then I stayed a single for nearly 2 years so far, and I have been trying to date with local Chinese girls, by the way of social networking online, offline making friendships with my Chinese female colleagues, even I went on very traditional ways in China, which was going on “Xiang Qin”- arranged dates made by my family. But none of above were worked out. And I then asked myself, what did I do was inappropriate or need to be changed. I rethought of all procedures of my dating experience with Chinese girls, I was polite and I dressed nicely and neat, with Colognes and I am always the one who paid for all bills, instead of going to Dutch. But the result is still unexpected, like I usally get following respond from Chinese ladies: “you are really a nice guy But……” “sorry I think we have a culture gaps and our lifestyles are different”, “ Are you living in Beijing or you are just a local?? Do you own a car, Do you own an apartment here? How much salary you made per month” “if you want to date me, you better figure out buy me something exotic, not just a simple meals or some boring stuff” ……… I have no comments for what I got by those Chinese women on first date. Cause I felt like the good morality and kindhearted qualities of a man can totally be ignored, when it comes dating in China, especially in cities.
    right now, those younger pretty Chinese women do think they are alike queens, and their boyfriends should give them BMW to drive, and Bring them to overseas for the vacations, and their boyfriends should be Rich, handsome and tall. Lacking any of those three, then you are out! , Snobby and shallow, it’s all I can summarize for younger single Chinese women today, well it’s not a about misogyny, cause I do not hate women. But the reality here is pretty cruel to guys like me, so what I can do, well I contributed all my spare time, to GYM working out and MMA Training. Proudly to say, I am almost a professional fighter now. with good body shape and 57% of muscles in my full body, however that’s not the man qualities of those Chinese women are seeking, they are seeking your skin’s softness, hairless and cuteness of your looking, if its not one of above, then again, they will sell themselves to some “rich daddy” and have babies for those old rich men to become “Xiao San”- mistress. God…… I could go on and on…… but seriously, Chinese women do need realize their problems now, and better to Change themselves for a better human but bitches. (sorry for my words, but truth)

    And I was sorry to hear that the accident for that French –Chinese couple. Cause I am in Beijing too, and I knew the love and relationship between men and women are nothing to do with race and culture but how well they know each other and how much efforts they are willing to put for each other, However for some couples around the world, including Chinese couples as well, should also learn to respect other people’s feeling, when they are out on the streets, please take their passions to their rooms, instead of so obviously showing off to the strangers or random guys like us . Cause they have no idea, what type of crazy-mind people they will meet, and what consequences gonna come back to them. Etc. there was another local news in China, couple weeks I saw, in southern part of China, a Chinese guy is doing a PDA with his girlfriend, that was seen by two Chinese “hooligans” then they started to provoke to this couple, that Chinese guy , of course will show some heroism to his girlfriend, then he started to fight with that two, the result was the Chinese guy was stabbed to death right in front of his girlfriend. I knew this accident is nothing related to the article, but I want to say to all couples out there, please be humble and respectful when you are in the public. Then you will keep your own beautiful world shining, As many of you may know in China today, many guys who were born in 1990 (in fact the number is about 30 millions) will have no dating opportunity thought out their life time at all, how could you imagine to comfort their natural needs by seeing those couples showing up in the public, and even doing PDA in front of you ? change to their shoes people, like if you are starve to death, then there is a guy hold bunch of foods trying to walk away, and then what you are gonna do? I am just gonna hit him down and get the foods, (don’t hate me for saying that) , so here, Even animals can do the group attacks, how can those thirsty men ganging up not do so? So by writing it, although it may not linked to each points, but as the reminder, I hope our government and officials can fully realize this serious social problems. For China better growth tomorrow, avoid it is not going into a war with other countries for women, or shall some part of China should allow to share women or wives, or importing foreign single women to China and get them marry to the single Chinese men, even make some young women regularly to serve all kind of the bachelor communities in all their lifetime in future. But its about the time to do something Now!

  8. “For every white man that dates an asian women , thats one less asian women for asian men.”

    @neo..a white man goes to the Philippines and marries a Filipina. Would a Chinese or first Chinese American male do it? I doubt it. He will be looking for a Chinese woman while complaining about white man dating a generic “Asian” woman. If you are making the comment “For every white man that dates a Chinese woman , that is one less Chinese woman for the Chinese man” I agree.

    I know of cases where Chinese children have been disowned for marrying other Asians. One couple lives in our apartment complex…he is Taiwanese and she is Korean…they have a baby…both have not seen both sides of the family for at least three years even after the baby was born.

    I also know Chinese families where one daughter was disowned for marrying third generation Japanese American while another daughter was honored for marrying white.

    So what you say is bunch of baloney.

  9. “Go discuss this with the Patriarchy , the same very men who were the ones to instigate Anti-miscgenation laws forbading Chinese /Asian men to marry anyone of white color.”

    @neo..they also forbade white men from dating Asian women. Two Japanese war brides disappeared in northern California in the late 1940s. Some guy claimed from death bed in the late 1990s that the two were tied with stones and dumped alive in the deep ocean and white women were involved…may be true, may be not….but if this is the era of Donald Trump this happening in the 1940s was not beyond the realm of possibility. After all, the state of South Carolina murdered a 14 year old black child on electric chair without much evidence and if given a chance that state will do it again…from my experiences in that state. A Chinese woman disappeared in the formerly sundown town of San Marino, CA in the early 1960s…no one knows what happened to her…so it worked both ways.

    As recently as November 6, 2012, the day Obama won re-election…a rioting mob at the University of MS chased a AWWM couple down the street calling him a race traitor…he was a visiting professor from Germany and she was his Filipina wife….never made it to the news.

  10. Generally it has been a one way street. For instance, with the same Brits who work abroad are the ones who bitterly oppose foreigners working in the UK. How do I know this? Funding for UKIP comes mostly from abroad. Expats in Dubai, Malaysia and India are involved big time. Read the blog on UKIP. Many one way street preferred comments come from folks in countries such as those mentioned above.

    Then in dating it has become a one way street. Back in the 1950s it was not acceptable for white men to date non-white women, period. The whole issue in the movie South Pacific revolved around this. Now it is ok to date non-white women, but the white women are “not allowed” to date non-white men. It is a one way street. For instance, any southern white male can go into Hong Kong and chase after a Hong Kong Chinese female. But, let a Chinese male from Hong Kong do that with a southern white woman in Tuscaloosa, AL or Athens, GA to name just a few, he will not just loose face, there is a distinct possibility that he may loose his head and neck…literally.

  11. “When your talking about dating , your not being picked because of your ability to make her happy. No , most of the time , the media is influencing who she will date. And who does american society hate the most? Asian men of course. This isn’t meritocracy , where your picked according to your abilty , its social justice. There’s not black and white , its grey all the time.”

    Is it media, is it the family or is it her..the white woman?

  12. “This sometimes happens in America, too. It happened to me when I was dating a black American man. I was accused by a small group of black women (who I didn’t know) of “taking one of theirs.” I didn’t realize it at the time, but I think there is a lot of frustration. Black women face a lot of discrimination while dating and have a significant smaller dating pool than white women do because of cross-race dating preferences. This happens to Asian men as well.”

    There are plenty of African men available in America….men from Africa and the Caribbean. Actually in many of those countries, the sex ratio is the other way around. But, will black women date African men from Africa or the Caribbean? In most cases no. They just want African-American men or the descendants of slaves. Michelle Obama is an exception to this rule. I know several well educated African men who cannot find African-American women dates, even though some of them already have green cards. Go figure!

    Politically there are (were) at least two African American women who are in cahoots with devils, the tea party types and right wing Republicans. One was Barbara Jordan…who proposed sharp restriction on immigration. Many in the black community now think that she was deeply flawed. Had her proposals become law in 1996, Sarah Palin would have been one heart away from the Presidency and Donald Trump may well be marching towards the Presidency…why? we would have had 10 million less minority voters. In fact, she was in bed with the devils. She is the favorite black woman of the hate group Federation of American Immigration Reform…

    Now we have Corrine Brown who is a Rep from Florida…is in cahoots with the GOP right wing tea party gerrymanderers. Wants 90% of the blacks in her district…leaving the tea party whites to gain a large number of seats and dominate the Florida delegation…,10408

    So, no…I don’t have much sympathy for many black women not finding men. if they had done what the white men do…go abroad and look for spouses. racist whites will be a minority in many southern states and we will not be talking about white privilege…US would have already become majority minority.

  13. This story reminds me of conversation’s I’ve had with my grandmother.

    If I mentioned to her that i had a crush on a black guy in school, she would tell me “don’t bring him home, date him all you want, but don’t you ever bring him home,” it surprised me, my grandmother has black friends, and they are good friends to her.

    When I asked her why, she said, “Because you deserve better then THOSE kind of men, those kind of men will just hold you back,”

    I’ve asked her about different races that I could date before, when I brought up Mexican or Latino, she didn’t care, and that was because they can “Pass for White”.

    She was completely fine with me being friends with different races, be she has a very strong belief that races should not EVER mix. But it stems from fear, she thinks they can love one another all the want, she can’t stop them, but she has told me, that any children born from it, will live a horrible life in American society. especially black and white mix children, because the White American’s will only see them as black. and she still sees the world like she was raised to believe that White means power.

    I’ve asked her once though, about how she felt about me dating an Asian man. the Response I got form her, was quite different, but still a misunderstood racism she doesn’t want to admit to.

    She said I would never be good enough for an Asian man, I’m to outspoken, to messy, ill-mannered, to affectionate, and clearly not at that level of intelligence that a Asian man would expect of me. She also said that a Asian man only had to take one look at how horrible I kept my art supplies (and bedroom, I really am a messy person, but most artist are) and he would have left me in a heartbeat. It actually hurt me a lot, because she was putting me down, but also crushing what ever Ideals I had of ever visiting China or Japan, two countries I’ve loved since the age of seven.

    I love my grandmother, she is a sweet woman, and she has friends in every culture. but so long as no one mixes with each other, she’s happy, but when she hears me mention my friends that are mix couples, she gets this very depressed look on her face. she worries about them, saying she knows they must be going through a lot of trouble. I’ve learned not to talk about my friends to her, not to much. I also stopped talking to her about relationships, because of this, and she’s raised me, so sometimes it’s hard, because I don’t have a motherly source to help me navigate the dating world. Only if I talk about a white man, then I can get all the advice I want from her.

    1. Wow, your grandmother sure had a lot of stereotypes. Racist grandparents — or any elders — are difficult to deal with. You don’t want to be disrespectful, and yet they some things so horribly wrong you just don’t feel like you can let it slide. It’s a tough line to walk.

      One of mine — the racist one brought up on a Southern plantation — didn’t feel she owned white men, but she sure as hell thought she owned white women. It was absolutely NOT OKAY for a white woman to date a black man. Because, of course, it was accepted that white men would have black mistresses, or rape their slaves. Also, men had all the power, and it wasn’t a woman’s place to criticize a man.

      Nope. Not nostalgic for the era of “Gone with the Wind” at all.

  14. “But it stems from fear, she thinks they can love one another all the want, she can’t stop them, but she has told me, that any children born from it, will live a horrible life in American society…..”

    Very true until whites become a minority.

  15. “One of mine — the racist one brought up on a Southern plantation — didn’t feel she owned white men, but she sure as hell thought she owned white women.”

    World of Donald Trump…it exists today even in places such as Iowa.

    1. David, you probably shouldn’t take Trump too seriously as a candidate. Even if we assume that he’s not a male version of Sarah Palin who’s running for the sole purpose of self-promotion for financial/commercial gain, there’s still a lot of doubt about whether he means half of the things he says.

      Though, granted, the fact that he’s getting a lot of support is indicative of the prevailing sentiments among the American public, which may be a cause for some pessimism.

  16. No matter the statistics, people who think they own members of opposite sex just due to racial similarity are fundamentally insecure loosers who have no faith in their ability to change their own fate.

    For chinese men who say that sort of tripe; what is stopping you from pursuing love OUTSIDE of china’s borders?? If a persons ultimate goal is to find someone they love, arent they already up against significant odds irrespective of male/female ratio? I mean its not like you can love ANY woman/ man as long as they are your race right? So instead of focusing on what they care about most in a relationship, making this debate about race is just wasting time and shows lack of intelligence and cowardice. Its the same for white male “sexpats” who objectify a race. They arent looking for meaningful relationships and also lack the intellect to know that a few people dont represent an entire population.

    I have seen several people who from across board who behave in this way and honestly its pathetic. I’ve seen east asian women who pass passive aggressive comments about why my east asian SO would be with me, or they just plain hit on him; I’ve seen asian men who keep lamenting about how they cant get any asian or white girls and the racism of it, when by saying that they themselves are acting racist, I’ve also met more than one “sexpat” types who have a east asian woman fetish and cant differentiate between the women they date.

    there is a lot of crap in this world. But it doesnt concern IR relationships. There will always be racists and there will always be loosers. The important thing is that unlike poverty and privilege, behavior is a choice.

  17. “what is stopping you from pursuing love OUTSIDE of china’s borders?? ”

    1. Loosing face if a white woman rejects him? 2. Ethnocentricity and mild form of racism defined as personal preference?

    IN NZ white women complain about Asian women taking white men. Asian men don’t ask white women out for fear of loosing face. Read some comments from New Zealanders in an earlier post.

    1. @David

      You assumed that outside China meant white women. There are women of other races. And not every race/ every woman harbors stereotypes against asian men. There are actually groups online of black women interested in asian men. There are some indian women/ arab women I have met who find asian men attractive.

      My point is, finding love isnt all about the demography of your home country.

  18. SMC read tonyget’s response about New Zealand:

    “So you got this funny situation: on one hand there is surplus kiwi women can’t find men, on the other hand many asian men in this countries struggle to find women. I know a lot of Chinese guy who has been here for over a decade never had a girlfriend.”

  19. @ D-maybe

    You miss interpreted my comment I did not suggest ” that we should simply accept the world as it is”.

    My comment is made towards those individuals who are only too happy to talk about the unfairness, complain about unfairness, b….about unfairness and give opinions about unfairness but who actually do nothing to change and improve the situation. They are unhappy but they don’t make any strive to change ( maybe they are waiting for others to make the change), they can’t accept but still don’t do anything to change it. So if they don’t want to change but are happy to complain and moan about it then “accept the lot” until change can be made; otherwise all they’re doing is festering hatred, anger and resentment within themselves and towards others.

    What would be absurd is if in 5 years , 10 years, 15 years these same individuals are still just talking and complaining about the same thing but have done nothing to change or improve.

    If in your opinion the “resentment of white privilege is more likely the underlying cause of the problems in China” then is something being done about it or is it just talk?

    “And we’re not talking about people who are in a relationship (married or otherwise); we’re talking about people who appear to assume ownership of strangers simply because they belong to the same race” I am aware of what the discussion is, the point I was making is that as Human Beings we “assume” ownership of others whether we are strangers from the same race or involved in a relationship, it may be an “innate” human response .

  20. I wonder if those who framed this as one where the Chinese men feel like they “own” the women also framed black women’s analogous grievences as one in which they feel they own the “opposite sex of their race”. Somehow I doubt it.

  21. @SBC
    “For chinese men who say that sort of tripe; what is stopping you from pursuing love OUTSIDE of china’s borders??”

    The problem with this is that most of the Chinese men (in mainland China) who have trouble finding a partner are poor. They have no chance of finding a wife anywhere but within China, most likely only within their own village. It is also in these poor, rural areas where the gender ratio is most heavily unbalanced.

    1. That’s rich of you to say, and you have an asian husband. I guess white privilege is too damn strong to ignore. So poor Chinese men don’t deserve to complain/ meet a Chinese girl about the state of dating in China, while similarly poor white male sexpat who couldn’t get a average white girl can go to Asia and find a Chinese girl because they are white?

      Your privileges reaks.

      1. @someone, thank you for the comment. I don’t think R Zhao was suggesting that poor Chinese men don’t deserve to complain or deserve to meet a girl; I think she was simply trying to explain the reality to SBC (which I also pointed to in the article when I mentioned the “bare branches” issue in China and linked to this article in Tea Leaf Nation).

        I agree with you that white privilege is a huge issue in terms of dating in China, where as you described, poor white men can come here to find Chinese women (because white men are perceived as more desirable due to white privilege). It’s something worth writing about.

        1. @Jocelyn

          Thanks, that was exactly what I was trying to say. I think that the burden falls on Chinese men who are poor and living in rural places as Chinese women often “marry up” socio-economically. These same men, have little to no opportunities to meet women outside their village. On the other hand, men with more money will have an easier time finding a wife. Some even find (buy?) brides in Russia and Vietnam, which might be an interesting topic to look into. I don’t know much about it.

    2. I think my comment was directed more to asian men you meet in urban areas that lament the lack of women who will date them. the kind that can own a computer, go on internet and rage or say roam the streets of a big city like Beijing and harass AFWM couples.

      In terms of the rural population, I doubt the answer is as simple as race politics of dating. I read an article about how preference for male child has skewed ratio of men and women in rural areas in India and China. Thats a problem about educating rural population and taking measures against female infanticide. i highly doubt chinese women are mass migrating from poor rural villages to marry white sexpats. Its a deeper social issue which maybe the more urban or at least educated enough to know about such an issue people use to justify their angst against asian women dating non asian men.

      1. I agree, few rural born Chinese women will flock to the cities to find a foreign husband. But many of them do flock to the cities and find Chinese husbands with urban hukous (household registries).

        The gender ratio is terribly skewed, especially in rural areas. Education would help, but it takes time to break with centuries of “tradition.”

  22. “The problem with this is that most of the Chinese men (in mainland China) who have trouble finding a partner are poor.”

    The question a responsible person will ask is simple: I cannot take care of myself, do I need a wife and a family? The problem is people who cannot afford to have families marry and have babies and then live on the streets (developing countries other than China at least) or become wards of the State (welfare in Europe). It is society with its constant pressure to get married whether you can afford to have a spouse and babies or not, that creates more economic problems globally and at the same time these folks vote to cut their taxes and cut education and other benefits that will lift many of them out of poverty and give them an economically viable option of getting married.

  23. Black women in America have other options to marry black men…they can marry men from Africa or the Caribbean. In Africa, the gender balance is the other way around. Had black women married African men in large numbers and brought them and their families to the US, racist southern whites would have become a minority by now and we will not be arguing about voter IS. Instead we have a black woman in Florida, named Corrine Brown in political bed with tea party folks to try and save her seat, another black woman named Barbara Jordan back in the 1990s was in bed with the right wing nuts to pass restrictive immigration bills which right now would guarantee a Trump there will be ten million fewer minority voters…yes, black women themselves have a tendency to shoot themselves on their foot and perhaps on their head.

  24. “The question a responsible person will ask is simple: I cannot take care of myself, do I need a wife and a family?”

    You think the sexpat ESL teachers on I make so much money 5000rmb types with no real skills can do this? If you note the 5000RMB a month has been static for 10 years. A white collar job in China will net you 6000-8000RMB a month

  25. The same rule applies to sexpats. But, even if they are not well qualified when they return home they will make good money because of white privilege…of course there will be many employers unhappy that they have non-white wives and they may not get a good job.

  26. I can certainly relate to this topic. As a Chinese man married to a white Brazilian woman, I have never been assaulted or berated by white men for “stealing” one of their pretty white females. But I have heard of black men being berated by white men for dating a white girl, and I have also heard of black women berating a black man for dating a white girl. My secretary told me that she told me that one of her relatives who is a white girl and this white girl was dating a very handsome black man. When they were walking down a street, several black girls were saying some very nasty things about the black man. These black girls were saying such things as, “What is wrong with him? Is he not good enough to date a black girl? Does he think that he is too great to date a fellow black girl and lowered himself by being an uncle Tom to the white girl.”. The white girl almost got into a fight with the black girls but they quickly left the scene. But they were both emotionally shocked that in today’s date and age, this can happen.

  27. “What is wrong with him? Is he not good enough to date a black girl?

    @Fred..Black men from the Caribbean and Africa are asking the same thing about African American women. “What is wrong with them? Aren’t non-American black men not good enough for an African-American girl? I have very little sympathy for African American women, particularly those in power….they get into bed with the enemy…racist tea partiers to protect their own seat. Google Corrine Brown redistricting Florida….real Aunt Jemima!

  28. @ David. I understand that racism is quite a concern in the U.S. and in the world. Recently the massive migration of refugees from Syria is testing the racial tolerance of Europe especially Germany. As you know, Germany had a bad history during WWII with the treatment of other races and entnicity. Since the end of WWII Germany has been trying to become more tolernant and tried to compensate for its attempted genoicide by putting into place a more benevolent immigration/refugee policy. But I heard that with the big influx of them, the fear is that many Germans may turn back to radicalism such as the NAZI party or some progeny to stop the problem. I amy praying that the Germans who are world renowed for their greatness will not do so.

    P.S.: I heard that the German girls are very pretty though.

    1. I dunno, Fred… In German girls you pretty much have women with the typical Germanic physical characteristics: tall, broad and strong. I don’t see how German chicks are uniquely pretty.

  29. Hi Jocelyn I was sure I left a comment on this or did you have a guest(?) post on a similar topic that has now disappeared? Just wanted to make sure a) I’m not going crazy and b) my comment wasn’t problematic in any way (I didn’t think it was offensive or anything!)?

    1. Thinking back I realise it was a guest post by someone with a Chinese mum and American dad or something similar, has that been deleted?

  30. @ D-May-Be.

    I did not say that the German girls are uniquely pretty when compared to girls of other races or ethnicty. I just find that they are pretty based on what I have seen in the movies, what other boys who traveled to Europe told me, and even on my personal experience. A long, long time ago and even in a galaxy far, far away, I was at a bar once with a Korean male friend of mine. This was during my youth when I was still experimenting with the idea of dating a girl outside of my race. We had met 2 girls: one Korean and one American who was of Germanic descent. We invited them to our booth and they came. My Korean male friend was chatting with the Korean girl, while I had the Germanic/American girl next to me. The American/German girl was then 21 and pretty, and she had blond hair with brown eyes. She had a lot of meat on her and was broader than the slim Asian girls. I guess after a few drinks she became more touchy and feely with me and later sat on my lap for a short while. I got her telephone number. When I tried to call her several days later she did not reply. I tried again and she did not respond. I was little heart broken and I was left with only good memories that night. These are the reasons why I thought that the German girls are pretty. Also, I saw on TV during World Cup that the German female fans were knock-outs.

  31. I see. It seemed to me you were suggesting that German girls somehow stood out with their prettiness, which, I assumed, was why you made a point of mentioning how pretty they were. From your description of the girl you met, it sounds like she was just an average American girl, though… Did you not complain when she sat on you? It must have been uncomfortable considering that she had a lot of meat on her.

  32. @ D-Maybe.

    No, I did not complain. On the contrary, I liked it. In fact, it was acts such as these that caused me to change from dating only Asian girls to now married to a Western white girl.

    Please note that I wrote “meat” and not “fat.” No, she was not overweight according to Western standards, but if you were to judge her by Chinese standards, she would be slightly overweight. But her pretty face more than offset the heaviness.

    I find it amazing how a person can change. Case in point was myself. I entered the dating arena with the mentality of only focusing on slim and pretty Asian girls to now married to a bigger and heavier white girl. If you were to read Jocelyn Eikenburg’s journey in the dating world, she too was weened on dating only those big, hunky, sexy white males but only in the end to marry a shorter and thinner Chinese male.

    What about you? Are you dating an Asian, white, or black girl?


    1. Do you have any idea why the girl did not return your calls? Is it possible that she might have had some (racist) assumptions about you, an Asian man, not being able to physically satisfy a larger, meatier white woman?

      Your statement about the girl not being overweight is noted but I get the impression that there is some kinda fetish going on with you, not from the comments you’ve made on this thread specifically but from the comments you’ve made on this blog more broadly. Does your conversion to white women stem from your attraction to the large natural breasts and wide hips found on white women, or have you simply developed a liking for BBWs (big beautiful women), to borrow the terminology used by the community of fat-loving men.

      I was casually with an Asian girl until about ten months ago, when I came to Taiwan. She was awesome.

  33. Hi D-Maybe,

    I do not know why she did not return my call. I speculate, however, that things escalated too fast that evening and that she may have had remorse. That night she had some alcohol to drink and after some drinking she became increasingly flirtatious and even sat on my lap at my request. I am guessing that after she recovered, she either forgot about me or just simply had remorse. To this very day, I cannot pin point the reason why she did respond to my request to contact her.

    Yes, I admit that now I am in love with a white girl (my wife) and have developed a fondness for wider and heavier white girls due to my good experience with them especially my wife. I never entertained this liking before. When I was younger I only liked thinner and slimmer Asian girls whose images were etched into my mind from the mass media and from other fellow Asian boys who had constantly raved about the greatness of the slimmer Asian girls. Thus, I forsaked blacks, Hispanics, and white girls. But now is now and today I have changed much to the dismay of my family and friends. I had to take some criticism from others especially from some fellow Asian male friends who (with a smile) berated me. For example, my Korean male friend (above) even criticized me by asking, “What is so great about the white girls!” He said, “They get fat so easily and they look down upon us Asian boys anyway. They are so mean to people and this is why there is a high divorce rate in the white community. If they (white girls) were fair there would not be this big imbalance between AM/WF and WM/AF pairings. It is because they look down on Asian boys that caused this big imbalance.” (I am paraphrasing him as not all the words are exact). Of course I tried to defend the whites by saying that not everyone is mean or prejudiced and that I am able to get a hot white girl; so why can’t you. By defending them, some of my fellow Asian friends called me a banana (white on the inside but yellow on the outside). I have had this debate with many fellow Asian guys about this topic and am so tired now. So, now I just laugh and enjoy my love of my wider and heavier white girl wife.


    1. So, is your love for big and heavy women limited to white women? Do you, for example, find large black women attractive as well? What about large Asian women… Or do you find that Asian women are not able to reach a level of body mass that would trigger your arousal?

      Just to be clear, I’m not being critical of your preference here… I’m just being curious and making conversation.

  34. Speaking as an Asian man, I don’t care who date who. No one owns anyone – that is a a very childish mentality to have. But the fact remains: many Asian females date white males out of insecurity and self-hatred. They view white males as ‘greater’ than Asian males and even further spreading negative stereotypes about their own people.

  35. @ D-Maybe.

    I did not limit myself to just white women. I tried to even date black women. On 2 separate occasions, they agreed to go out on a date with me, but they both stood me up in the end. I waited at the rendezvous location but they did not show up.


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