On Dating Chinese Men -- Or Why You Shouldn't Judge After Only One Date | Speaking of China

83 Responses

  1. Michelle
    Michelle January 14, 2013 at 7:23 am | | Reply

    Man…I got really upset reading her post! Even that photo where she says she’d rather eat McD’s (which she hates) than eat chicken feet. I LOVE chicken feet. Just shows she has no appreciation for good Chinese food. Then I read a few of her other posts on dating and got even more annoyed. Like the one where she said dating in China meant lowering her standards because most men smoke, are shorter than her, are looking to settle down, and are unadventurous outside AND inside the bedroom.

    Anyway, my “On Dating Chinese Men” post is coming soon, I’ll let you know when it’s posted!

  2. Samantha
    Samantha January 14, 2013 at 7:58 am | | Reply

    Wow. That blogger is just really negative in general. I get that she had a bad experience, but not all Chinese men are to blame. As a side note, who goes to a spa on their first date? Expensive and risque, she perpetuates the “crazy foreign girl” stereotype.

    My “On Dating Chinese Men (in America)” post will be up next Monday.

  3. aiyanxifu
    aiyanxifu January 14, 2013 at 8:00 am | | Reply

    I am pretty certainly that she is more likely loser in life. Losers all share similar trait which is contempt for others. Many studies have indicated that discrimination or prejudice is rooted in inferiority complex. That is. People of inferiority complex are full of negative energy.

  4. Ashleigh Son
    Ashleigh Son January 14, 2013 at 8:25 am | | Reply

    Ok guys… don’t kill me for this… but I thought that girl’s post was hilarious. Sure, she misinterpreted the entire Chinese men population in her title, but you have to admit, her story was pretty amusing, and as a matter of fact, that guy was a total douche. LOL.

  5. Susan Blumberg-Kason
    Susan Blumberg-Kason January 14, 2013 at 8:39 am | | Reply

    Great post! I get so frustrated when people generalize anything, especially people. I love your idea of blogging with that title. I will put my post together tonight!

  6. askdsk
    askdsk January 14, 2013 at 8:39 am | | Reply

    Sometimes people need to come to certain conclusions on their own. Jocelyn, like many others, have changed through experiences.

    “as a matter of fact, that guy was a total douche”.

  7. askdsk
    askdsk January 14, 2013 at 10:11 am | | Reply

    I really don’t know how people read the post. It surprises me some of you western women react so negatively. Anyone who stays in China long enough would understand insights shared in her story. Maybe we need to ask the question why so many western women have negative experiences. I don’t think it is all due to negative perceptions.

  8. Bruce
    Bruce January 14, 2013 at 10:19 am | | Reply

    Having fun and see my apartment? Does that mean slapping some ass later and slapping more ass ( having fun) in the future? You know seeing the apartment will have a high chance of getting kissed or be kissed. You know one date will not indicate anything about a person. For example, if I’m a single chinese guy again, I would suggest on where we will go on our first date or see what she likes to do. If a guy or a woman who always tell you where to go usually is very demanding/commanding. I just like a person who will compromise with me. I see nothing wrong with eating chicken feet . it’s healthier than McDonald seriously. Did she really eat chicken feet on her first date? All jokes aside here seriously. I know that foreign women are not used to trying new foods then why the hell “chicken feet” is even on the menu? For example, if I have a bad first date with a spanish girl, I wouldn’t put having “burrito” for lunch or fried chicken for black women. ” I rather have McDonald instead” ? This is just lame. I can ask about having kids etc etc on the first date ;however, on the second date I will be fine WITHOUT having kids. All of you guys hear me talk here for a while already. Can you guess what kind of chinese man I am in person seriously? I can be soft,nice, rough, mean,tough, acting dumb, but you will not find many men like me who are more understanding , considerated, and willing to sacrifice time, money and hardwork on something/someone (wife,kids etc). Hey, nice guys have anger and hot temper also but I use anger for a good cause ( for fighting against bad people). That’s why most people I know will say ” how this guy is good at almost anything? Everything is hardcore and to the extreme” . Of course, If I talk to you the first time, I will NOT reveal all my beliefs and all the things I like to do and where I like to go. Does this make sense to you non-asian women out there? I went out on a first date with a white woman yrs ago and yrs ago. After dinner, I didn’t call her at all because I didn’t feel my personality will match hers. Also I just moved to this state. I didn’t say one thing bad about her to her friends. If I spent more dates and time with her maybe she would open up and maybe we would have been married. The more people/women talk to me, the more they will like me 300%.

  9. SBC
    SBC January 14, 2013 at 12:56 pm | | Reply

    While I agree that her post paints a negative picture of the whole population, which is unfair, the guy mentioned in it IS a total prick and she isn’t implying that that has anything to do with him being ‘chinese’. Furthermore, one thing mentioned in her post is something I have read on several blogs and something that MANY east asians have told me is contrary to east asian values: The chinese guy telling the “western/ most likely if not always white woman” that he loves her within hours/days of meeting her. I am sorry but this is such BS. Consider the fears many of us encounter before embarking on a multicultural relationship, and then the less expressive asian culture. There are many men out there (not just chinese) who date for shallow ridiculous reasons. One of them happens to be the perks/status associated with the woman they date. And this points exactly to that. So it is no surprise that many western women have encountered guys desperately in love with them, willing to marry them (for the green card perhaps, or the social status a “white” gf brings) who give the whole chinese/any asian male population a bad name. Another set of voices online is the darker skinned foriegn women who have different compalints (Namely these guys either wont date them or wont commit).

    But every once in a while you hear genuine stories of people from different culture who have encountered difficulties and still remain in love. Its just that there is a negative side to everything including intercultural dating; and so while I am on board with the whole “lets not judge an entire population by few experiences” I wouldn’t undermine these experiences and neither would I say dating”Chinese men” is great/awesome, because lets be honest, its the specific men and not the whole population that make it good/bad. I think the person I happen to be with is great in his own way, his chinese ness included.

  10. SBC
    SBC January 14, 2013 at 1:02 pm | | Reply

    and I agree with askdsk, the negative reactions here are a bit uncalled for. She shouldnt have titled the post so, but apart from that I see very little wrong with it. The guy on the contrary does give chinese men a bad name. But then, dating is a very intimate concept, dont many of us judge the WHOLE population/ country based on tiny bits of information? Like the cultural stereotypes propogated, or ideas associated with any culture (read asian are conservative, westerners are more open minded bla bla). Its not right, but its something so common place that we all engage in it at some level somehow. Condemning it seems a holier than thou approach to a genuine cognitive shortcoming of the human mind.

  11. Sveta
    Sveta January 14, 2013 at 1:31 pm | | Reply

    After reading the woman’s article, am tempted to pull my hair out. Hasn’t she read your blog I wonder? I’ve actually had good dates with Chinese guys, (at least two of them,) but meeting them again or keeping them as long term relationships is a different story and highly unsuccessful 🙁 The Chinese guy I dated three times a month ago talked about weight and all, and from reading Jocelyn’s blog, I thought I understood it was his way of caring and whatnot. I wish I could write that kind of post, but I’m not good at writing personal stuff online…maybe I’ll write and post it on Jocelyn’s site later on?

  12. askdsk
    askdsk January 14, 2013 at 4:23 pm | | Reply

    It is better to respect people’s choice of intimate relationships, even when your own pride hurts a bit. Being at the receiving end is not ideal. Many western women get the chance to taste the bitter medicine abroad – sexism, racism, etc.

  13. Blossom
    Blossom January 14, 2013 at 6:50 pm | | Reply

    Wow… She is one seriously negative person. Very upsetting, yes! Well done Jocelyn for attempting to squish this absolutely awful blog post from Google’s search. I really hope she gave him the petrol money.

  14. sometimes
    sometimes January 14, 2013 at 8:43 pm | | Reply

    I am Bruce lee’s home man,by sharing very little ancestry with him. and i love British women .

  15. Sam
    Sam January 14, 2013 at 8:47 pm | | Reply

    I m not mad at her. on the contrary I pity her. like aiyanxifu said, she’s probably a loser. there’s no need to get upset. she’s entitled to her own opinion. what she wrote of Chinese men says more about her than Chinese men.
    by the way Jocelyn, thanks for the links.

  16. Shannon
    Shannon January 14, 2013 at 8:53 pm | | Reply

    I am sickened by another woman bashing everyone because of one meeting. I have dated many races and all of them have had their good and bad dates. It has nothing to do with the races and generalizing in such a way just perpetuates the negative image, we women who date Asian and Chinese men, have been fighting. I am going to post something too on my blog under the same title, maybe then we can bury post with positive ones.

  17. cvaguy
    cvaguy January 14, 2013 at 9:48 pm | | Reply

    Hmmm, I don’t see anything especially negative in her post. She probably wanted to have some fun and not necessarily wanted to settle down, and the man had complete different thoughts. I think it is stupid to dump a date because of age. However, she did say “And that was my introduction to just how seriously the Chinese take the whole dating thing”, which may also have some truth in it, I just don’t know for sure any more.

    But I agree the title of her post is not be a good choice.

  18. Dave
    Dave January 14, 2013 at 10:56 pm | | Reply

    Hello Jocelyn – I didn’t know about this post or blogger, so thank you for pointing her out. Although some readers might miss it, I think those who read the blog very closely will notice that this British woman was dating a Chinese man only as a project in connection with writing a general column about interracial dating. In other words, she wasn’t necessarily a Caucasian woman who appreciated Asian men specifically. She was just dating this man as one of many other tasks to write about her experiences. My only guess is that she has also dated men of many other ethnicities, including non-Asians such as African-Americans and Latinos. For such reasons, I’m not surprised she had either preconceived notions about dating a Chinese man, or a certain close-mindedness that predisposed her to make sweeping generalizations about the man, his cuisine, and his culture.

    I do oppose her post, or at least the implications from it, or how she characterized the date. Her use of sarcasm was mean-spirited. It suggests she doesn’t appreciate or have any intention to learn about Chinese culture, which makes me wonder why on earth she is in China to begin with.

    That said, you have to be fair and realize that if her description of the date is accurate, the man was unworthy. I don’t believe in cultural relativism in all instances. At some point, you have to put your foot down, and even if she is the foreigner in another land, if this man truly wanted to get to know her better, that means respecting her cultural norms and she must respect his. He ought to take charge. He should be proactively planning the date. He should maintain an interesting and active conversation with her to express his desire to get to know her better. And he should not be declaring love for her on the same day; that’s just creepy. And if she suggested a spa, that’s merely because he didn’t step forward to come up with a better idea for the date. It’s his fault.

    The Asian men that truly desire to be with western women in body, mind, and soul have the initial responsibility of bridging the cultural gap. If he is a native Asian, it’s harder, but the onus is on him if he really wants this. In the internet age, there is absolutely no excuse for social ineptness or provincialism, and if he desires her that much, he needs to learn. He needs to learn English. He needs to refrain from smoking and spitting in the street. He needs to take care of his teeth and adopt decent hygenic habits. If he’s American (or westernized), he has to take the next step and learn skills that help him make the approach. It’s somewhat unfair, I agree, to put all the burden on the man, especially an Asian man who can’t read minds and literally has to put his ego on the line, but those are the facts. This whole thing about “Asian men won’t approach me; they’re shy; so I have to approach them” is simply lame. We can go on and on about cultural differences regarding this issue, but for pete’s sake, he wants to date a western woman, so he bears some responsibility for learning the rules.

    This man in her post didn’t even bother, and that’s why he wasn’t worthy of her.

    But that does lead me to a more uncomfortable subject, which I’ve been on the fence about since starting to review these “AMWF-Met an Exotic Asian Man in a Land Far Away” types of blogs. I don’t want to cast any dispersions, and if it sounds that way, I apologize. You have to hear me out about this:

    1- In your and other similar blogs, the theme is almost always about the single western woman who needs to find herself and “fill in a missing place” in her soul when she visits Asia.

    2- She is experiencing a certain amount of unhappiness or social ostracism back at home.

    3- And she meets an Asian man who completes that missing piece of her.

    4-And this man is usually an Asian national, not an Asian born and/or raised in a western environment.

    5- She falls in love and desires either to stay or bring him back home to her country.

    Imagine, for a moment, if a 5’4″ Japanese male national came to New York City for a professional project and who knows only a little bit of English and American culture. He interacts with the “locals” and discovers he really loves blondes. He meets one, falls in love, and realizes she is the one he has always been looking for in his life. And he wants to take her back to Japan and make her his wife to live with him in his land. I suppose it could happen….but seriously, how remotely realistic is this?

    For both western men and women, the idea of finding love in a foreign country and bringing them back to the United States is not uncommon. The reverse, however, is very rare.

    And when our British woman blogger talks about dating the “locals” analogous to refraining from eating at McDonalds while in China, together with a close-minded gloss of her Western culture superimposed on her date, what this brings to mind for me is what some have called her “social colonialism”.

    Because when a white foreigner goes to Asia, and arrogantly refuses to learn the culture of the land he/she is in, and then decides to date “one of the locals”, this in a sense is a form of colonialism. Because, frankly, we’re more likely to see a white person capable of doing this successfully rather than an Indian person, East Asian person, or Middle Eastern person in America. If foreigners from all over the Globe came to the U.S. and literally dated away all the “white women”, the media would perceive this as a threat.

    As much as I hate to say it, it is hard to separate what you discuss in your blog from the “taint” of global, and cultural dominance, that is (hate to say) still leaning very much toward whites. This isn’t new. Historians have been studying and writing about the legacy of imperialism and colonialism for a long time now. There is no question that English, American popular culture, fashion, and beauty standards still very much dominate the scene in the non-western world. Even in the Phillippines, there are products sold designed to “lighten” or “whiten” a woman’s skin, because of the belief that white is better.

    My sister saved a lot of money and underwent the surgical procedure to remove the extra flap of her eyelids, so that she wouldn’t look as slanty-eyed. Because she hated looking like an Asian. Are you aware of any medical procedures designed specifically to make a white person look less white? The very idea is ludicrous, but these procedures exist — for the non-whites.

    I do apologize, Jocelyn, for making these remarks to the extent they offend, but I sincerely feel they need to be said. I appreciate all your efforts and the efforts of similar bloggers who are trying their best to demonstrate that Asian men and Western women *can* find love together. I don’t hate white people and I certainly don’t think what I described above is intentional. I am only saying that sometimes, we can be unwilling participants in a system that benefits some, but denigrates others. I believe this blogger you identified was precisely such a person — she judged her date based exclusively from her Western viewpoint.

    How do we move beyond such a system?

  19. mira
    mira January 15, 2013 at 1:28 am | | Reply

    @ Dave
    I like how you express yourself with your views and comments re “There is no question that English, American popular culture, fashion, and beauty standards still very much dominate the scene in the non-western world. Even in the Philippines, there are products sold designed to “lighten” or “whiten” a woman’s skin, because of the belief that white is better”

    So WHY do people of “non-western world” have this belief……do they really hate themselves, their race and ethnicity to believe that “white is better”. Aren’t they strong enough to recognize their own strength, beauty, their own uniqueness and individuality?

    The above can also apply to westerners; those who will do anything to obtain a body, or a face that they consider to be beautiful or desirable. They go to extremes of changing themselves through surgery to fit an image that they perceive to be perfect. These images of so call perfection is bombarded through media , advertisement, fashion magazines etc and for some reason reason we talk ourselves into believeing it must be so…..that I am nothing, that I am ugly, that I am fat, if I don’t look like the girl/guy in the pages of blah, blah magazine.

  20. Pamela
    Pamela January 15, 2013 at 1:32 am | | Reply

    just read the other post … don’t hate me but I actually found it funny… the title is indeed misleading the readers … but apart from that, she didn’t say anything (in my opinion) extremely negative about Chinese men. She was rather surprise of the seriousness of dating in China, I think. I was surprised of it at first too, and I agree most Chinese take dating as business,which I highly dislike.
    And less face it, that guy was a complete a**hole …

    Anyway, I’m just gonna say this, I’m madly in love with a wonderful Chinese man but if I wanted to, I could easily write a full page of negative experiences of my own,that doesnt mean im looking down on Chinese men or discouraging western women to date them, the dating culture is different in China that is an undeniable fact.

  21. Dave
    Dave January 15, 2013 at 6:51 am | | Reply

    @ Mira
    Thanks for thoughts on my comment.

    “So WHY do people of “non-western world” have this belief……do they really hate themselves, their race and ethnicity to believe that “white is better”. Aren’t they strong enough to recognize their own strength, beauty, their own uniqueness and individuality?”

    I think for the same reason why men or women of, for example, American culture have socially reinforced standards of beauty, no matter how “strong” they are. Because it is hardwired into our brains, by family, friends, community, and the media collectively. I’m not sure if it means we “hate” ourselves. But I do think it means we aren’t as self-aware as we think we are.

    I’ll put it another way…I wholeheartedly agree that women in the U.S. are pressued to be thin, blonde (light haired), and softly-spoken. And the full spectrum of women here (minority women, teens, college-aged, 30s and 40s) are pressured or downright influenced by these standards. But I hope you agree with me it would be unfair to say they all “hate” themselves or are not “strong” enough. I think in 2013, we should be through with blaming the victims. We should be identifying and blaming the perpetrators.

    And speaking of which, I don’t think that our collective vulnerability to being influenced by beauty standards, largely based on race, should absolve the wrongdoers who perpetuate these impossible standards and hurtful stereotypes.

    It would not surprise me if sarahinguangzhou (http://sarahinguangzhou.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/on-dating-chinese-men/) is someone who has completely immersed herself in, and never questioned, these beauty standards, as follows:

    1- That a “real man” must be 6′ or taller.
    2- That he must be fit and muscular.
    3- That he must be either white, black, or latin (to the exclusion of any man coming from the Asiatic or “academically-focused” countries, such as Jewish, East-Asian and South-Asian men).
    4- And that he be hyper-confident, wealthy, non-needy, and have large hands (LOL, seriously, I’ve heard this one).

    “The above can also apply to westerners; those who will do anything to obtain a body, or a face that they consider to be beautiful or desirable. They go to extremes of changing themselves through surgery to fit an image that they perceive to be perfect. These images of so call perfection is bombarded through media , advertisement, fashion magazines etc and for some reason reason we talk ourselves into believeing it must be so…..that I am nothing, that I am ugly, that I am fat, if I don’t look like the girl/guy in the pages of blah, blah magazine”

    Agreed completely. And in our global society, these standards bleed into the standards of other countries. It’s part of what I am trying to say. It’s insidious. Imagine if you’re a minority brown-complexioned woman in a third-world country, and in the past, beauty standards were clear, and there is nothing about your racial makeup (body composition, height, facial features) that makes you ugly by default. *Suddenly, as communication spans internationally, gorgeous pictures / videos of these hot, thin blonde and redheaded white girls in lavish shiny dresses inundate your television….for years, at least 1 or 2 generations. What do you think it does? And how much of an effect do you think it will have on the men who reside in your land?

    There is nothing that I can do to change the basic features of who I am, short of body mutilation that is commonly known as “cosmetic surgery”. I’m shorter than most men. I have smaller bones, and more slender features. My face is round, not chiseled. My hair is harder, dryer, and more challenging to wave or style. I have a genetic predisposition to be near-sighted. And, yes, community, demographics, media in the west, and now the Globe have classified me as a beta, not an alpha.

    I have no intention of discouraging western women from dating and loving Asian men. I, do, however recommend that each such woman examine very honestly *why* Asian men make her feel the way they do, and why these feelings were not present before she made her trip to China.

  22. SBC
    SBC January 15, 2013 at 8:00 am | | Reply

    @mira

    I think you are confusing Dave’s very valid point with teenage pursuits of illusionary beauty. However the “white worshipping” problem he mentions is real, serious and not limited to disillusioned teenagers.

    No matter what its roots though (may it be that years ago lighter meant higher status and darker meant working in fields; or/and colonialism and hundreds of years of subservience just because of skin color/eye shape), it is a problem of these nations and they need to wisen up.

    I agree too that the McD statement she used sardonically illustrates how I have usually read about interracial dating. Look, love is a wonderful thing and should not be put in such unnecessary scrutiny. But dating is a different game altogether. And in that, western (read white) men and women do have a similar approach/perks compared to others. That, sadly, is a fact.

  23. askdsk
    askdsk January 15, 2013 at 8:02 am | | Reply

    It is taken too far and too rational already. I am not sure you can demand most people to display a level of self-censorship for a certain cause. Most don’t have reasons to do so. Some drama makes life more interesting. Also, the fact you deny the negative experience is also not helping to see all individuals.
    I am one of those people that don’t want to see Jocelyn to fight my own battle with a twist. It ends up backfiring and becomes a laughing matter because you don’t have a sense of humor.

  24. askdsk
    askdsk January 15, 2013 at 8:27 am | | Reply

    I like this talk- http://www.ted.com/playlists/62/how_to_tell_a_story.html

    There is a danger of telling a single story. But that single story also needs to be tolerated.

    @Dave
    Your analysis is good in another context. I enjoyed reading it.

  25. Dave
    Dave January 15, 2013 at 8:32 am | | Reply

    @ askdsk – thank you. Are you in China?

    You are right. Perhaps there is a little too much seriousness being placed on that post. Let’s just be good to each other and have faith in ourselves that we can get through this.

  26. Bruce
    Bruce January 15, 2013 at 9:51 am | | Reply

    Think first before you go online and write something you don’t understand at all. You know if there is no connection , there will be no connection between two people no matter if he/she is the same race either. You can whip me like a horse/animal and I still won’t like/love you my dear 🙂 lol. Maybe you dislike a person is because he/she is just a negative person or that person complains sooooo much over nothing. Do you like it if a Chinese/asian guy complaining about eating burgers and fries 360 days a yr with a western woman?

  27. askdsk
    askdsk January 15, 2013 at 10:53 am | | Reply

    @Dave
    I used to be in China.

  28. cvaguy
    cvaguy January 15, 2013 at 11:07 pm | | Reply

    I think people over react a bit, just a little 🙂

    Every coin has two sides. So I will take it in if there is something worthy. Look at the issue fairly from both sides, and try to understand why. It can be inspiring. Reading about tea party and Boston massacre. While the book praises founding fathers, I am thinking “hmm, tea party looks like a crime, the Boston massacre looks like policy self defense. The birth of America is pretty much due to the same reason as the birth of communist China”.

    Just an opinion.

  29. Sara
    Sara January 15, 2013 at 11:21 pm | | Reply

    Dave, I’m not sure if you realize this, but your post, or at least the way you presented Western women who happen to fall in love with Asian men, is a fairly common and insulting stereotype to the effect of “Well, she couldn’t get a man in her own country (because she was ugly/fat/insecure/etc.) so she went somewhere where it’s easier…” that many Caucasian men, in fact, throw at Caucasian women who date/marry an Asian man. You seem to imply that Western Caucasian women are somehow using the power of their race to sweep in and take a poor Asian man away from his home and family, and that it’s not even good Caucasian women that are doing this, but the losers who couldn’t make it in America or wherever and so took off to Asia.

    In reality, in my own experience, I came to Asia to further my career as a university language teacher and possibly do some research for a few years before going back to work in a university at home, I had no “missing pieces” in my life, I didn’t come with some scheme to use my cultural and racial power to get myself a man, and I never expected to fall in love here. But I did meet my fiance, he is Chinese, we fell in love and are getting married, and we actually plan to live in China… falling in love caused me to change my own plans about the future and place my career (the original reason I came to Asia) on the back burner.

    Many among the community of Western women who’ve married Chinese or other Asian men that I know have actually done the same – decided to live in the Asian country long-term. There is certainly racial imperialism and colonialism in the world, and the effects of that can be seen, but I really don’t think it applies so much to this group as the picture you paint.

  30. Dave
    Dave January 16, 2013 at 12:49 am | | Reply

    @ Sara
    Hello Sara – thank you for sharing your points. I re-read my comment, and I think you are right it does imply this stereotype, which was unintended. I apologize. At the end of the day, all I am trying to do is call people’s attention to the difference between how a foreign man (coming to the U.S.), especially an Asian man, is treated when he wishes to date, versus how a western woman is treated when visiting a place such as China. I do believe a double-standard exists which tends to favor the latter. And whenever I notice disparate treatment, it’s important for me to voice my observations. As you know, this chain of comments initially arose from Jocelyn’s critique of sarahinguangzhou’s post “On Dating Chinese Men”, in which she tended to offend some readers for her characterization of both her date and Chinese cuisine and cultural practices. I was elaborating on this theme.

    But, no, I do not believe, nor intended to imply, that all western women who find attraction, love, and happiness with Asian men are “ugly”.

    Based on long experience, both before and during my marriage, and now the aftermath, I *do* feel that the western women who feel that attraction / connection with Asian men tend not to come from the mainstream of western society. They’re the “Bellas” of Beauty & the Beast (sorry to use a movie analogy). I only say that because western standards generally do not ascribe masculinity or attractiveness to an Asian man, and so it takes a special type of woman (i.e. a non-mainstreamer) to appreciate him, or to notice desirable qualities in him that mainstream western women otherwise do not notice.

    The, what I call “mainstream” western or American women, who don’t get or notice the good things that Asian men offer, derive much too much benefit from that mainstream society….to ever question it.

    And that’s why Janeane Garofalo, not Kate Upton, is more likely to feel goosebumps when meeting an Asian man. That intelligent girl we all remember in school who was shy, sat in the back, who loved reading books under a tree and was sometimes teased as being “wierd”, who cared about the nice guys when no one else did, is the one who grows to love an Asian man. In contrast, the popular cheerleader who always dated the 6’3″ varsity letterman as her high school sweetheart, went to the prom, and was never teased for her slender figure and “mainstream” features, was never placed in a position of having to notice or date Asian men. She is surrounded by mainstream reinforcement, and she gets all the trimmings from that society.

    Before I married, my ex-girlfriend was a sister. My next ex-girlfriend was a wonderful girl who lived in a small town in Wisconsin. She was obese. My next girlfriend was a single divorcee, who was agoraphobic. My wonderful wife was bullied in school, and goth. Each of them was a western woman. Each of them had some extra depth that took them out of the “mainstream”, and by virtue of that, they saw something in me that no other girl did. They related to me somehow.

    And because of this, many of the women who dated me, and that I observe dating Asian men, do not possess the “mainstreamer” qualities conventionally ascribed to western beauty standards. They have a different look. I think that is the phenomenon you are ultimately talking about, this stereotype that western women who love Asian men are “ugly”. They’re not ugly. Rather, as I told my wife, they are unique, and as long as they love Asian men for the right reasons, I think it’s beautiful.

    -Dave
    Michigan, U.S.

  31. Dave
    Dave January 16, 2013 at 12:56 am | | Reply

    @ cvaguy
    Yeah, I might have overreacted. lol. Why do I always do this and make a serious issue out of everything? And now it’s 3:00 am here and I’m tired.

  32. Serena
    Serena January 16, 2013 at 1:09 am | | Reply

    I really wanna know whether Dave is Asian or not. This guy is just so insecure. Apart from that, pretending to know everything doesn’t make any good.

  33. Pamela
    Pamela January 16, 2013 at 2:11 am | | Reply

    dear @dave :

    I just read your last post, while I agree that some women who date asian men are not “mainstream” and I can see u have had some experiences with them, its important not to generalize.
    I was never bullied, im not goth,not obese, im not a “bella” ( i actually think that one is not a bad quality, shes my fave from Disney movies) not inferiority complex or any other thing u described.
    I actually had a pretty fun-normal middle/high -school/ college experience. I wasnt a cheerleader but I was never consider uncool and never had any problems dating boys.stayed in a long-term relationship with my ex who was the kind of man u were describing 6′ athletic , gym-freak hot boy.
    Came to China for working reasons and because is a good place to travel around Asia, not looking for an easy way to get a man. I met my current boyfriend and I liked him since I saw him, call me superficial or whatever but he was just too good-looking, as u can see based on the kind of men I dated before I like tall athletic type this one happened to have a charming personality and a great sense of humor… so not all chinese men are geeks and definitely not all are consider unattractive, all my friends and family told me how handsome my boyfriend is .. so u should not generalize that all western-chinese couples are 2 rejected by society outsiders whose only choice was to be together … my bf is perfectly capable of finding a chinese to date as I am of finding a western men to date. we like each other and thats it, no hidden sad motives in it.

  34. Dave
    Dave January 16, 2013 at 9:20 am | | Reply

    @ Pamela
    That’s fantastic! You have proven me wrong.

  35. askdsk
    askdsk January 16, 2013 at 9:45 am | | Reply

    When you are considered to be marginalized, you tend to have the same mindset to judge everyone else.
    Western women in China are interacting with Chinese who grow up differently. I have my share of experiences witnessing “weird” ones.
    You choose who you want to be with.

  36. Bruce
    Bruce January 16, 2013 at 9:58 am | | Reply

    I’m considered ugly too *wink wink* LOL. You know it’s your personality that projects your CORE values and for that women/people/friends will LOVE you baby!!!!!!!!!!!! Personally, what is beautiful and what is handsome to you anyway? Tell me. Some women look beautiful when they are in their 20’s and when they reach their 30’s god damn what the hell !! soo ugly!! Even some men are so handsome in their 20’s but when they reach 30’s , WTF!! bald head /fat and out of shape. You know something! Asian men are not ugly. You make yourselves ugly in the eyes of westerners. You westerners called it ” confidence” and it’s confidence that will help you project your real values on life. Of course, I have no sayings because I’m in my early 40’s 6’1″ 210lbs full of muscles and energy right? It takes me 9 yrs to recover from an injury . Mainly it’s my attitude and not giving up that healed the injury. Your personality is very important to women . Having the physique in the beginning will only get you in the door but you have to have the patience to endure longlasting problems from a relationship. Even if you’re tall , dark and handsome and always hide in the brushes is not attractive to women . Your #1 responsibility is to fix your personality first. In the past, people said that a tall woman would match my height but I told them that short woman who was cute and caring was fine too. Here is a real true incident that happened to me last month. One white woman ( slim body with 2 piece bikini ) was hitting on me while I walked by. I just said hi and waved my hand was because I’m a married man. Alot of women like to talk me and they really want to know more about me by asking lots of questions. Some white women even gave me eye contacts and smiled at me. I always tell myself that I’m married and I have the greatest wife in the world for over a decade. You know in western societies, you have to let your personality explodes like firecrackers. Hit them in all angles with your personality. Freaking talk them to death okay and they will respect you.

  37. Joel Stottlemire
    Joel Stottlemire January 16, 2013 at 10:31 am | | Reply

    I was so happy to find your blog. We are a Chinese wife and American husband couple. We’ve written a lot about our experiences on our blog (http://hongkonghonky.blogspot.com) and have many Western Men/Asian Women couples as friends. But we’ve never come across a couple where the woman is the Westerner. Congratulations on your marriage!

    I think that cross cultural marriages are a wonderful way for people to get outside their shells and get to know the world around them. It has sometimes been very challenging but Minxi and I have a great time!

    Best of luck to you!

    Joel and Minxi

  38. David
    David January 16, 2013 at 3:54 pm | | Reply

    How does the woman sound? I was in Indiana last sunday and at a brunch place I overheard the following conversation between two young white women perhaps in their twenties:

    The first young woman: “She is working for peace corp in southwestern India.”

    The second young woman wrinkling her nose in contempt: “Why would she do that? Indian men rape young women out there”

    Thirty years ago, I heard the same conversation in a midwestern campus definitely from people of their mothers’ generation…

    The first woman: “She is going on assignment to India.”

    The second woman: “But, they burn young brides there and attack women!”

    Needless to say, nothing much has changed in three decades, or attitudes passed on from generation to generation.

  39. Marcus
    Marcus January 16, 2013 at 4:08 pm | | Reply

    I don’t really understand what all the negativity is about regarding that blogger’s post? Besides its title, it simple describes her experience with 1 Chinese man (which she clearly stated). She never really generalized anything here?

    Actually, I’m surprise that Jocelyn would be this critical in pointing out a specific blogger in such an public manner! Well the title was generalizing, SO WHAT! Everyone does this to increase and attract readership, enticing people with sensationalistic titles! Main reason why I subscribe to blogs are for their opinionated insights into their own experiences.

  40. Sara
    Sara January 16, 2013 at 8:14 pm | | Reply

    Dave, thanks for clarifying. Like I said, I wasn’t sure if you realized that message coming through in the first post or not.

    In many of these posts describing the supposed image of the ideal guy I hear that height seems to be a big issue but since I’m all of 5’2” tall I suppose it never occurred to me that it’s a big sticking point. (Actually whatever the ethnicity of the guy, I would not want a 6 foot tall guy because he’d be too tall for me… haha.)

    I just think attractiveness is personal and varies greatly… it is conditioned by culture to a point but even cultural norms of what is attractive vary over time. I mean, here in Korea the perfect attractive woman seems to be a super thin kind of ditzy girl who spends hours on makeup and hair, who’s a bit helpless, who’s cute, who’s innocent, who’s clumsy and who cries a lot (if you watch tv). Is that what all Korean men find attractive? Not necessarily. Do men from some other cultures find that attractive? Sure? Do men from other cultures find that unattractive? Sure.

    I think Jocelyn was right in writing this post. Although the author of the other blog said the date was one time, blind, and not even because she was interested in the guy but because it was for this project, she still presented it (not only in the title, but in her whole story) as if that date was a good example of what a date with a Chinese man will in all likelihood be like. Just read the comments on the post. But she’s wrong. It’s good for those of us who know better to point that out.

  41. Mika12
    Mika12 January 16, 2013 at 8:26 pm | | Reply

    I just read the article and, honestly, I found it really funny… It is clear that she was just looking for a weird experience and writes about it (first date in spa? Come on) but the fact that the date was a Chinese man, I think that is just casual! I don’t think she really meant what Jocelyn thinks and I believe this time the reaction to the article was a bit exaggerated (I should be offended too as my husband is Chinese and I think he’s the best and most adorable man in the world^^). Anyway, she was just leveraging on the western common thought that Chinese man are not dating-material to write something ironical… I found a comment to that article that is much more stupid than the article itself:
    Joy (@JoysAbroad) writes:
    “This doesn’t surprise me and makes me more confident in my decision not to date Chinese men. Though I’ve said I’m open to it I think he would have to be pretty special. Cultures date differently. We aren’t better than them or the other way around but I’m still western and this still wouldn’t work for me. I don’t understand why you’re getting negative comments on other blogs. I think you’re just being honest.”

    Come on, the article makes her more confident about her decision? And the remaining part written only to demonstrate that it’s a personal decision and does not mean that it is a discriminatory and snobbish decision? Ahahha this comment is to be commented.. Such a small mind!

  42. Laura
    Laura January 16, 2013 at 9:14 pm | | Reply

    I don´t have a blog, and you should very glad about it cause if every time I have a bad day I start to type…you would think that I am the most negative person in the world..

    That girl should also consider another option: Before starting to type in her blog she should open a word documen and type, non-stop! She could write her feelings, and all what she wants in that word. After that she can open her blog and start to write, she would feel more relaxed.

    These days I could say I write 1 word / day:
    searching for job
    visa
    what happens if we find no solution? Ok this one just makes me feel frustrated and cry. If this is the final situation and need to leave the country and live appart then maybe I open a blog just for that topic!

  43. Laura
    Laura January 16, 2013 at 9:20 pm | | Reply

    Oh..how many mistakes I did!!!
    You see? Glad not to have a blog!

  44. RobC
    RobC January 17, 2013 at 12:05 am | | Reply

    I’m a Chinese-American guy and I do think there is some truth in what the blogger writes. She has mentioned that people in China have bad manners like spitting in the streets and giving you the elbow in order to get on a crowded bus instead of standing in line. And she has mentioned how this behavior is exactly the opposite in Hong Kong where she enjoyed visiting briefly not long ago. I don’t know what her intention was for writing about her date. Maybe she just went out with this guy just to prove her point to her readers that dating Chinese men is a bad idea. Whatever it is her date is a complete jerk. Being a Chinese local, this guy should have done his homework and planned their date thoughtfully in order to impress her. Calling her a whore when their date did not work out is despicable. No lady deserves to be called a whore. For the sake of all Chinese men and Asian men in general, I hope Chinese nationals clean up their acts. They give me and all Asian men a bad image.

  45. Laura
    Laura January 17, 2013 at 12:19 am | | Reply

    @RobC,
    Agree, the guy was stupid, whatever country he is from, that is not a right behaviour.
    She had a bad experience, and I hope she reads my post some day..

    My best date has been with my, since then, boyfriend, he is a Chinese national and he impressed me in many ways.
    We met right in front of the place we saw each other for the first time, he was holding a hot drink for us when I arrived, talked about his hobbies, life, made me laugh, …he was..awesome! I have never had so much time before. It was a very friendly moment and we both learned a lot from each other.

    What I want to say, is that is mroe than possible to find your other half! What is ok for one culture is not ok for another.

  46. 夏美
    夏美 January 17, 2013 at 3:02 am | | Reply

    I feel like such an outcast… I want to read the lady in question’s blog post but there’s kind of a certain great firewall in the way…

    It’s also been preventing me from reading Jo Bai’s wonderful blog. Why block BlogSpot of all things??

  47. Flying Tigress
    Flying Tigress January 17, 2013 at 5:15 am | | Reply

    I think I got turned off Chinese men when on the first date he said to me “I will fluck you like a flying tiger”.
    That wasn’t the most romantic phrase. I don’t think the Chinese ever got over the Mongolians showing them who had the biggest penis.

  48. David
    David January 17, 2013 at 7:22 am | | Reply

    One would at least hope that white women who are turned off by Chinese nationals dont take it out on Chinese-Americans and other Asian nationals or Americans of Asian origin. Unfortunately, I have to say most white women stereotype all men of East Asian ethnicity based on their experience with some Chinese national. I will bet that the woman who wrote the blog will not even date an Asian American guy whose family has been in the US for several generations.

  49. aiyanxifu
    aiyanxifu January 17, 2013 at 7:31 am | | Reply

    “I’m a Chinese-American guy and I do think there is some truth in what the blogger writes.”

    This is very evidence of Chinese weak verbal IQ and lack of social skill. Verbal skill or IQ is about maninpulation of others brain, not about finding truth. Good verbal IQ mean good salesmanship which bring you higher income, better price for your goods, more award (including nobel prize), better legal outcome (regardless true responsiblility). Chinese social skill is like bad salesman who constantly say how bad his product is. WTF. Self-critism is not natural for most human in this world. Yet, Chinese often strangely demonstrate that.

    On the other hand, truth finding is for engineer or scientist. But good verbal IQ get silver lining.

  50. askdsk
    askdsk January 17, 2013 at 8:20 am | | Reply

    In the real world, it matters very little if you can’t go beyond the obvious. I found it interesting when Jocelyn pointed out not giving someone a second chance. Most white girls I know won’t date a guy twice if the first date does go well. What happens in that woman’s first date was horrible. Probably Jocelyn has become more Chinese.

    That blog shows cultural divide and the same old notion of gender equality that puts Asian guys in disadvantages. There is a lot of truth to it.

  51. Bruce
    Bruce January 17, 2013 at 8:51 am | | Reply

    @aiyanxifu, I agree with you 150%.

    MOST chinese nationals can be extremely wealthy but their mannerism and social skills still lack something..Maybe it will take 30- 50 more yrs to change that just like HK etc. I lived in HK before. I told you guys last yr that Chinese gov’t should fine people who spit on the street and put them in jail with hard labor . No bribery will be accepted or else take your ass out to be executed including high ranking officials ) . We should start with high ranking officials first on executing so it will set a good example to follow. Ask yourself a very smart question here. Why some laws and people in china don’t move forward with the future? the answer is : High ranking officials.

  52. Bruce
    Bruce January 17, 2013 at 8:57 am | | Reply

    Even teachers, policemen do those kinds of bad habits. How do kids are going to learn the good habits? If you’re Chinese men and women in China reading all my comments here, please F…king clean up your act. I’m serious here. You can bang your heads on the wall while reading all my comments but please write to your high ranking officials and get the god damn problems fixed.

  53. Bruce
    Bruce January 17, 2013 at 9:29 am | | Reply

    You want to compare with other countries right? Okay I will compare with you. Look at Japan for example… Where do you see people elbowing each other , spitting in public or littering in public? Japanese people are very polite in public and obey laws and orders. Look at Singapore on sanitation laws. no chewing gums ( banned), no urinating in elevator and they enforced the LAWS like there is no tomorrow. If you smuggle drugs into Singapore, execution tomorrow no question ask! South Korea is clean too. How come these countries are so successful in sanitations ? It’s all about education and “changing” the culture on sanitations. You mean China can not change a bit on that problem. Yes, they can by kicking out most high ranking officials . You people in China can do it but you’re controlled by those powerful, selfish officials that’s all. Why there are laws in a country? Once they are passed, police depts have to enforce those laws. I’m just a clean freak ,sorry for my comments. sorry sorry sorry chinese style let’s move back another 1000 yrs. .

  54. mira
    mira January 17, 2013 at 10:06 pm | | Reply

    @askdsk…”single story ” how ture her words are and I’m sure everyone can relate to it. I think many of us have been a part of a single story , believed in a single story or even told a single story.

    @SBC….Actually it’s not just teenage illusionary pursuit of beauty, many women and men of all ages want, desire and go to such extremes to get what they desire.

  55. Bo
    Bo January 17, 2013 at 11:48 pm | | Reply

    Wow, pretty serious discussions. Kind of amusing in some ways that people feel so strongly about these topics. I think, aside from the important topics like discrimination, stereotyping, etc, we should realize that it is human nature to desire to be with people who are similar and familiar to us. It is only natural for people of the same ethnicity, race, culture to feel the inclination to stay together. It take a great amount of effort and courage to be willing to step outside our familiarities. Much of the discrimination is simply the result of fear of the unknown. Even within one ethnicity, people discriminate each other all the time. As a Chinese, sadly I have to admit that we are in fact one of the most discriminatory people. Not only do we discriminate people of different race/ethnicity, we discriminate each other based on dialect, family origin, social background. (As rare as Chinese man/white female couples are, how often do you see any African/Chinese couples?) Perhaps, some self reflection is much needed? On the other hand, as the world continue to globalize, more and more people will intermarry. I’ve got a fairly global extended family already, including Chinese, Japanese, India, American, German. (Sadly no African yet.) There is always hope.

  56. Bruce
    Bruce January 18, 2013 at 9:09 am | | Reply

    @Bo,

    I totally agree with you on that and it’s tearing us apart in pieces.

    I’ve talked to other Chinese people too and they asked me where am I from also. In my mind I’m thinking —-> ” you motherF…. even you ask me where I am from also and you’re chinese ,too huh . Your accent is different from mine. Of course, you dumb ass. I have to blend in fool”.

    I know that mainland Chinese men need to educate themselves on dating western women. Who freaking asks about marriage and the # of kids you are going to have on the first date? What if you can’t even have kids or even lay a kid out ? and then what? It’s very funny that this chinese guy called her a “whore” for not telling her real age. It’s hilarious man. Well, women are very sensitive on age. I know that he just want to know if the chinese zodiac signs will match or if they’re compatible. I know that.
    Of course, if western women get bad experiences with Chinese men in China , those women will blame Chinese/Asian Americans too. Hey, it’s a blaming game in this world.

    I told you guys that we have to get rid of those high ranking officials who have been making Chinese people suffered for decades . When the laws passed on the federal level in China, those officials on the lower won’t follow or take bribery on the side. The vice president of China wants to change policies but other representatives said” can’t change, no way” why? so, they can have more power and extort more briberies and money from every levels ( businesses, taxes, people, etc). From generals to mayors to policemen all the way.. How can a low ranking mayor has 4 lamborginis, 3 ferrari and 40 mistresses in every cities? $$$$ bribery.. Don’t ever tell me that with 1.3 billions Chinese people that you can not build toilets that don’t stink and install them all over china!!! I heard that they “pretend” to build restrooms so beautiful in China in some areas but they’re closed . Why? Officials get all the money on the side for their personal uses and pretend there is no budget to maintain those facilities. I always hear excuses like ” Too many people, can’t control them”. Now you know why I keep on saying that you have to get rid of high ranking officials all the time. I know lots of people don’t want to say it but I will say it and this is the real problem here.

  57. Selly
    Selly January 19, 2013 at 11:50 am | | Reply

    Meh. I wish I hadn’t read that blog post. I truly dislike it when people generalise and proclaim to be experts on something they have only tried once. Bah. I feel that gal is more hurt by the fact she was insulted by the guy. So she had a bad date. Who hasn’t? So what it wasn’t perfect. It does not give her the right to talk the way she does, like she knows it all and is a super expert on everything. I’m not an expert on dating Chinese men, heck I’ve only dated one so far but I happen to be really happy with him. Still I find myself improvising a lot, I put my foot right in and saying something I probably shouldn’t. But it makes for interesting conversations with my other half who has never dated a Western girl either and just does the best he can, namely love me. As for the rest we’re both learning and it’s fun. I’m thoroughly annoyed with that woman and her post and I wish I hadn’t read it. Know it alls like this one annoy me. I do wonder what she’s doing in China in the first place. She was utterly biased when she went on that date and she doesn’t seem to like or understand Chinese culture at all. Argh. I need to distract myself – I’m not happy.

  58. RobC
    RobC January 19, 2013 at 6:58 pm | | Reply

    Well the guy was just naive and stupid. Maybe he thought she had already fallen for him the fact that she agreed to go out with him. That would be really funny. Obviously he didn’t know how to impress a lady but yet he knew very well how to insult one. No thanks to him. He gave Chinese guys another black eye. If you think dating is serious in China, you should learn about Indian culture. One of my Indian colleagues graduated from college and joined our high-tech company last year. He didn’t even have a girlfriend back then. To my surprise two months later he told me he got engaged and filed a vacation request to get married!

  59. RobC
    RobC January 19, 2013 at 10:57 pm | | Reply

    I’ve just read thru this blogger’s post once more and she mentioned she did have a good relationship for a few months with a Chinese guy from Hong Kong. She was more critical of Chinese guys from mainland China. I know some of us may still be offended but she’s just telling it like it is. Anybody who has been to both mainland China and Hong Kong or Taiwan can tell the difference. People in Hong Kong and Taiwan are more westernized.

  60. Oegukeen (boyfriend in Korea)
    Oegukeen (boyfriend in Korea) January 21, 2013 at 4:31 pm | | Reply

    I have the same issue with people generalizing dating scene in Korea. If you go on a bad date in your own country you think badly of the guy you’ve been on a date with. You don’t think your whole country is messed up.

  61. David
    David January 22, 2013 at 9:15 am | | Reply

    If you go on a bad date in your country you think of the guy as an individual case, and not judge the whole race. One white woman visiting Hawaill back in 2009 that she will never date any Asian American because she had a bad date with someone from Korea.

  62. Bruce
    Bruce January 22, 2013 at 9:25 am | | Reply

    Do you know that most women/men are idiots and extremely dumb even though they have degrees? I had many bad dates and I still never talk about them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  63. Bruce
    Bruce January 23, 2013 at 3:30 pm | | Reply

    Yes , you got that right.. She just wanna have fun and having more “fun” and meeting more people.. Having more fun! Some people just won’t settle down seriously. They just want to be single until they have enough “fun”. When you’re older and with wrinkled ass, I hope people don’t mind anyway. Let me tell you here that people are used to getting hooked up all the time.. they don’t know how to keep up a real traditional relationship = dating + gf/bf = marriage. Let’s have more fun…

  64. Alice Zindagi
    Alice Zindagi January 24, 2013 at 8:52 pm | | Reply

    There are good and bad experiences in dating any race or nationality of man. It saddens me that something like that would be able to paint AMWF relationships in general. I, for one, have pretty much only dated Asian men my entire life because they’re just what I like. I, like you probably did, have dated various ages and social classes. I’ve dated the American-born. I’ve dated the foreign-born. Guys with accents, guys without, guys with good English, guys with bad. I’ve dated complete jerks. I’ve dated complete gentlemen who utterly rocked my world.

    The thing is, there’s no set standard of what it’s like to date Chinese guys, or any group of guys. Fortunately for the reputation of Chinese men, there are plenty of women who thoroughly enjoy them. I think it’s great that you’re helping to even things out with such a well-balanced article. Fantastic job. And just know that you’re not alone; there are more women like us who love Chinese men here:

    http://www.asianmanwhitewoman.com/

  65. Bruce
    Bruce February 1, 2013 at 3:20 pm | | Reply

    Dating in China is very different from the West!!!!!!!! I guess having fun and not being soo god damn serious means that she just wants casual sex, making out etc.. I think we should alll have fun for a while.. Meeting strangers on the street, clubs and make out.. Sound like fun? ohhhhhh I love it.. All of us at some point, we want to have some fun but for how long? I ‘ve asked my close friend on this subject about having fun.. He said it was fun for a while but it was lonely even though you had 6 women every week. Finding a man/woman who will love you no matter what …. is hard MAN!!

  66. Anna Darnley
    Anna Darnley February 5, 2013 at 6:09 am | | Reply

    Despite still being pretty young (19) and having lived in China only 5 months, I’ve been out on a fair few dates with some of my friends…though it’s never really come to anything (I’m just too busy it seems), it’s definitely given me a good perspective and more experience about what to expect when I want to look for a boyfriend…

    As a keen follower of your blog, I was really interested to read this article – and clicked through on to the link to the article written by the other author.

    I was … well… initially, horrified. Then, I couldn’t stop laughing. Then, I was horrified all over again. The idea that she works as a columnist only worsens the situation. Goodness me wasn’t she right when she wrote “I failed to grasp just how differently love and dating is viewed in China from other countries where I have lived”….. apparently that still stands.

    Upon reading her explanation for choosing the date location, I couldn’t help but laugh. With reasons like those she thought she was setting them both up for a good date….. ???

    “Firstly, I like spas. Secondly, this place is difficult to get to by public transport and he had told me he was bringing his car, so I thought I should take advantage of this. Thirdly, there is nothing like spending your first real date with someone in your underwear. It helps break down barriers. If I was honest, I wanted to see how comfortable he’d be with that the whole nearly-naked concept.”

    The first point: Strange choice but fine. The second point: Materialistic but each to their own. The third point….WHAT?

    It pains me that others will read posts like hers….it worries me even more than their future perspective will be based on it.

  67. askdsk
    askdsk February 5, 2013 at 9:39 am | | Reply

    A self-identified hippie went on a date with a local Chinese guy. What do you expect to happen?

  68. Bruce
    Bruce February 5, 2013 at 2:14 pm | | Reply

    Forget about the spa ! Jump in the bushes and make out. It’s so fun.. Why waste time and money at a spa? Lesson #1 : Never ask about marriage issues or how many kids your date wants to have !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Once, you two get along well and compatible , don’t ask either.. Everything will fall into place later on. Can you guarantee with your “worthless life” that you’ll get married or you can even have kids in the future? Don’t make assumptions.

  69. Bruce
    Bruce February 5, 2013 at 2:33 pm | | Reply

    It’s plain and simple!! Some men or women are very very very very very hard to please. No matter how well you treat them, they will still have something to say. I can please you for a short period of time only. I can can’t please you for life man. ALSO! some men or women always think that the whole universe is surrounding them will have a very hard time maintaining a longterm relationship. ” If you don’t run, I run !!!!” —— Bruce

    Bruce 🙂

  70. Sara (Living a Dream in China)
    Sara (Living a Dream in China) February 19, 2013 at 5:51 am | | Reply

    Thank you again for this great post Jocelyn! I’m commenting this a bit late because after pondering it over I only today came around to write my own piece of the matter.

    I agree that you can’t write Chinese guys off just because of one, or even few, bad experiences. There are so many good qualities in Chinese men, for example that they date to marry, that it’s great that because of your example Jocelyn, there will be more posts about dating Chinese men. More posts with reliable information.

  71. David
    David February 19, 2013 at 6:11 am | | Reply

    “I agree that you can’t write Chinese guys off just because of one, or even few, bad experiences.”

    White America women will write all East Asian guys off just because of one, or even few, bad experiences…not because the date committed a crime. But, will they write all white men (including white American men) off because a white male in South Africa they were dating murdered his girlfriend? I think the answer is obvious.

  72. Sara
    Sara February 19, 2013 at 5:24 pm | | Reply

    David, sorry, but you sound really bitter about this. Did you have a bad experience that is causing you to group all White American women into one group the way you claim they group all East Asian men? Despite all of the evidence only on this thread that White American women and other Western women WILL date East Asian men after having bad experiences you still insist on posting vague, general, and unhelpful comments like yours?

  73. askdsk
    askdsk February 21, 2013 at 12:02 am | | Reply

    Chinese men need to start pursuing other women aggressively like Chinese women go after western men. Most don’t because deep down they still want to a woman that is easy to handle.

    @Sara (Living a Dream)
    The way some Chinese men have to bend their ways to please women is not ideal quality. Many relationships end up being built on gratitude and duty instead of love and passion.

  74. Bruce
    Bruce February 21, 2013 at 7:13 pm | | Reply

    You just have to meet the right man/woman regardless of race. If you’re “lucky”, you’ll meet the greatest person in your life who will help you in any possible ways. You’ll have a person who will anything for you. Just like I will do anything and everything for my wife.

  75. A.
    A. March 22, 2013 at 11:40 am | | Reply

    Jocelyn, the post you are refering to is so offending. Look at the way, she speaks about people… Going for a date with Chinese man is like trying local food? Taking advantage of him having his car to go to a spa?

    Anyway, it gives you even more credit for your work and making sure some valuable informations and opinions are on the Internet, apart from this unbelievable crap. Thanks Jocelyn! Wishing you and your husband a happy lifetime together.

  76. californiagirl305
    californiagirl305 October 12, 2013 at 11:30 am | | Reply

    I am a Caucasian American and have been dating and in love with a Chinese man for almost five years. We live together and he gave me a beautiful engagement ring last year. All the stereotype characteristics that I heard and read are completely false. He is the best lover, the most caring, smart, open-minded, funny, adventurous, respectful and generous man I have ever known. He loves taking care of me and treats me like a queen. The only issue I have is that he is secretive sometimes and tells white lies, however, he never flirts with women and I don’t think he would cheat (at least I hope not). He just doesn’t share everything with me, such as other women he exchanges text messages with, etc. He just says that he doesn’t feel the need to “report” everything to me. Other than this issue, and it is a big one for me that I am trying to learn to live with, he is a dream boyfriend.

  77. californiagirl305
    californiagirl305 October 12, 2013 at 11:42 am | | Reply

    By the way, the post by the woman and her first date was stupid and offensive. It really didn’t say much about her personality. She honestly sounds like a pain-in-the-xxx by the comment about wanting to see how he would handle being half naked. What is that supposed to even reveal about him? Who would feel comfortable being half naked on a first date? What’s wrong with coffee, dinner or a walk in the park? What normal woman would have the need to know this on a first date? She sounds antagonistic and a bit shallow (like she only cared about getting a free spa day). I’m surprised she wanted to portray herself that way. Coming from a woman who has dated a Chinese man for five years and has known many other Chinese men, her representation about Chinese men in general was absurd.

  78. Bruce
    Bruce October 13, 2013 at 8:50 am | | Reply

    californiagirl305,

    Sometimes Chinese /Asian men don’t like to report everything is because we don’t want to cause misunderstandings in relationships. My wife looks at my text all the time ( day and night). Customers/clients call /text me all the time. I don’t even care if she looks at my phone. When my ass is itchy, I report to her too 🙂 lol. Years ago before I surfed the internet , I didn’t know there were so many misleading info on Chinese/ Asian men. Now I think everything is just BS on the internet. I look at people around me like my Chinese/Asian friends, brothers, uncles, sisters, aunties, my mom and my dad. They don’t even come close to what people have described on the internet and the media. What I have noticed was that they are amazing, strong minded, considerated and very caring. My mom is fearless and very strong minded woman so when people talk about Asian women who are submissive and that really makes me angry. Yes, most Asian men approach women differently from other men but that doesn’t mean we can’t get no woman. I told my friends that if you want women in America, don’t put the word ” marriage” in your head within 3 yrs of knowing those women. Just have fun and don’t think about marriage for now. I blame our parents and Chinese thinkings that the sons can’t marry/date non Asian women PERIOD!!! ….but the daughters CAN.. so sad. Look at our divorce rates and you tell me Chinese/ Asian men are good or not! Nobody wants to face the real data instead they rather want the t.v better. In order for Asian men to be successful in dating in America, we must learn how to have fun and don’t think about being so serious out there. We also have a very soft culture where you can’t be too muscular , everything has to be gentle and think for the whole group . Why can’t we just be like animals? and maybe women will notice us for being a beast. Think about what I say here most women are not attracted to nice guys.

  79. californiagirl305
    californiagirl305 October 13, 2013 at 11:48 am | | Reply

    Bruce, thank you for your perspective. Your explanation about your text exchanges with other women is pretty much what he says. I love having this wonderful man in my life and I don’t want to lose him over cultural misunderstandings.

    P.S. Is mother is fearless and strong minded as well. She’s an educated and lovely woman who treats me very kindly.

  80. Bruce
    Bruce October 13, 2013 at 2:50 pm | | Reply

    Californiagirl305,

    Just got back to my office again on Sunday :(. What a waste if you lose him over little things. We shouldn’t focus on too much about little things that don’t cause any harm. We’re too occupied with cases, projects and deadlines, it’s frustrating to report everything to our women. When I’m stressed out with work, I just don’t like to talk about all the time because I ‘ve figured out on my mind already . Normally, Most Chinese men will treat women very well due to the fact that Chinese moms are close to the sons.

    Good luck! next event to go to soon 🙂

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