Who Can We Trust After The Discrimination? | Speaking of China

35 Responses

  1. David
    David December 5, 2011 at 7:31 am | | Reply

    “Also, I talked with a Chinese guy who told me an interesting story. I suspect that he might have been discriminated against, but didn’t have a chance to ask him; he is long time friends with a girl in a church and one time offered to pick her up. The pastor discouraged him from doing so by saying that he can’t pick up a girl unchaperoned. I suspect discrimination because I started wondering; what if he was American or something, would the pastor tell him that?”

    I am very certain that there are white guys in his church, and he needs to observe whether there is any difference in treatment. In some churches, they have that philosophy irrespective of race. In other churches, I am certain it is a race thing!

    “Jocelyn, maybe it’s time to move to another city, or state? Do you have family in your current city or state you live in?”

    [State] is very racist. They dont even like WMAW couples. So I am a little bit surprised that Jocelyn and her husband moved to [State]. [State] is particularly racist against Asians. All the anti-Asian racists from California towns like Arcadia and Cerritos and Orange County towns such as Anaheim moved to [State] and the southern suburbs of Denver. Go to Bergen Park, Colorado, southwest of Denver, you will find many CA transplants and most of them are Anti-Asian. [City, State] is the same and you can expect this from both white males and white females. Arizona is getting pretty bad. I hear that in Phoenix if you are a “visible foreigner” and you are assulted, Sheriff Arapaio wont even look at your case!

  2. Sveta
    Sveta December 5, 2011 at 3:39 am | | Reply

    A number of people once called me racist because I refused to date men of other race besides Asian. (My friend who’s also an Asian guy also thought that of me.) I think I told someone and one time I went to grab some food at a college cafeteria. The guy who worked there, an African American who isn’t even friends with me and doesn’t even know me, told me that he heard that I date Asians only and therefore I’m a racist. I was pretty mad about that. First of all that person doesn’t even know me, he’s not my friend and what is it his business in deciding who I date? I tried to explain that its just for dating; I’m open to having friends from different backgrounds but I doubt he understood. Also, I talked with a Chinese guy who told me an interesting story. I suspect that he might have been discriminated against, but didn’t have a chance to ask him; he is long time friends with a girl in a church and one time offered to pick her up. The pastor discouraged him from doing so by saying that he can’t pick up a girl unchaperoned. I suspect discrimination because I started wondering; what if he was American or something, would the pastor tell him that?

    Whatever happened Jocelyn, I’m sorry to hear that and know that at least those who read and comment on your blog are supportive of you and John.

  3. Jia-qi
    Jia-qi December 5, 2011 at 4:45 am | | Reply

    Jocelyn, maybe it’s time to move to another city, or state? Do you have family in your current city or state you live in?

    People are always going to discriminate all the time…
    I live in Michigan, in a very diverse community, but AMWW couples are still uncommon. I feel judged for being interested in Asian men. (No one understands I’ll date any guy, but prefer to date Asian men.)

    People are cruel.
    Sometimes you gotta find a better place to live.

    Wish you and John happiness.

  4. steve
    steve December 5, 2011 at 5:25 am | | Reply

    trust, first comes from your own heart. if you stand true to your own heart it cant fail. then you reach out to your loved Chinese girlfriend and you can trust her(if she can trust
    herself) then that’s even sweeter. all the other loves and friendships are gifts. you see love is from inside spreading out. when you depend on it from outside yourself then receive it into your own heart. you must accept it from those individuals as their own. not biases, but accepted individualism.
    I never feel judged, but studied. this is good. this makes me a doorway for them to see through,walk through and if they wish to enjoy my garden of life.

  5. Bruce
    Bruce December 5, 2011 at 8:35 am | | Reply

    ACQUAINTANCES AND FRIENDS COME AND GO BUT YOUR WIFE/HUSBAND IS YOUR ONLY TRUE,CLOSEST FRIEND! Many closest friends/relatives reminded me of that phase. I have tested out that phase for over 12 yrs and without doubt that comes to be true. My own experience is that your wife will not discriminate you and she will be there for you until the end . With the support from your wife, you won’t feel alone/lonely in this unreal world. I think with those male friends, you have to communicate with them and do many different MANYLY activities that will surpass their beliefs and knowledge!!!!

  6. ordinary malaysian
    ordinary malaysian December 5, 2011 at 9:02 am | | Reply

    I guess people will always discriminate against someone of a different race. It is a very sad thing when this involves friends who on the surface appear accepting. But I think it is especially quite common where inter-racial relationship is concerned. Rightly or wrongly, part of this stems from a sense of rejection or even “righteous betrayal” that someone should choose another from a different race against his and particularly her own. The perception is that the other is inferior and does not deserve better. Silly or not, this is a very human trait. Still a very primitive tribal thing. What we can do is not to give life to discrimination by being adversely affected by it. Of course this is easier said than done, because we are sentient beings and we have feelings and acts of discrimination do impact our lives. Still.. we want to have the last laugh. And racists can stew in their own juice – and nicely. Ha ha

  7. Chris Waugh
    Chris Waugh December 6, 2011 at 1:28 am | | Reply

    All these exhortations to leave [State] leave me… discomforted. Fact is, there are racists everywhere. In some places the local society and culture allow people to be open and up front about their racism. These multicultural cities tend to create a situation where racists have to hide their racism. So would you prefer a middle finger raised in your face, or a sneaky, shamefaced stab in the back “I don’t want to sound racist, but…”? And let’s face it, every society has some kind of prejudice or discrimination that is encouraged – oh, [State], chock full of racists. Basically, stereotypes about places are about as useful as stereotypes about “races” or other arbitrarily defined groups of people.

    But Jocelyn, remember: You’ve built a good community of readers and commenters here who all support you and John.

  8. chen gang
    chen gang December 5, 2011 at 10:42 am | | Reply

    I grew up and went to university in China, and later came to the US for graduate study and married my American wife. I studied/stayed/worked in many states (PA/NJ/NY/CT/CA/WA), and I have to say that, of all the places I stayed, Bay area and Seattle make me feel much more comfortable than other places. Maybe it is because these are the more progressive cities in general, and have large Asian populations. I found many more people are interested in Eastern culture (Yoga, Tai Ji, Qi Gong, Buda, Taoism, etc). Even though I never feel I have fully assimilated into the American society, or for that matter Chinese society when I go back to China, these more tolerant/accept-ant environments give me enough easiness to feel at home.

    Living in a foreign country is not an easy thing, however, as you grow more confident as a person you will enjoy more the second culture. Americans do have the advantages living in China than the other way around, because Americans tend to be more self-assured after being admired around world (people in some countries may not say it out right) for so many years.

    In the end, this is a personal journey and personal growth. You experience, struggle, reflect, grow, and become content regardless the environment you are in, but I believe some places are more indusive to happiness than others. The World Happiness Studies list the Scandinavian countries as top candidates, I think “trust” and “content” must be high among the people in these counties.

    Chen Gang

  9. Bruce
    Bruce December 5, 2011 at 12:33 pm | | Reply

    Even though other states and cities are more accepting of interracial couples, we don’t have to move there. Come on man, stay where you are. I’m not moving and I’m a very stubborn person! I don’t want people to like me because “I’m smart, hard working, respectful”. They have to like me as a person. Even true friends will say things behind your back but do not take it so serious! Yes, mentors and friends can criticize/discriminate. Enjoy ourselves and instead of running away from discrimination/problems, we should better ourselves. How many times can we run away from problems? You can run but you can’t hide. This is my 2 cents.

    Bruce

  10. sengathit
    sengathit December 5, 2011 at 9:30 pm | | Reply

    I totally agree with Bruce. You have to be able to defend yourself and stay strong in the face of adversity. Running away to another place doesn’t make you a better or stronger person. I find it too often that Asians tend to avoid the issues instead of tackling it head on. It gives people the impression that you are a a push over and they can walk over you when they want too.

  11. Mina
    Mina December 5, 2011 at 9:39 pm | | Reply

    Jocelyn if the person who discrimintaed agains you and John is/was a friend then he/she wasn’t a true friend – not the type that has your back, or one who’ll drop everything to be by your side in you darkest moments, nor the one who’ll protect you and stand with you against disrcimination, hate, unjust.

    Sorry Bruce I disagree with you I do think you can trust a friend, I have had the same best friend for 26 years and I trust her with my life and vise versa. There have been things in her life that I have disagreed with but I stand buy her no matter what her decision is or what the outcome is.
    A friend is someone you choose to be in your life and they do become a branck of your family (not biologically)and when you are betrayed by that friend it hurts like crazy.

    Like love (true love) friendship needs to be unconditional…. you can’t be friends and then one day decide “I can’t be your friend becasue I don’t like whom you married”

    Jocelyn you need to be strong, let go of those who hurt you – move on and don’t let it fester or consume you

  12. David
    David December 6, 2011 at 6:17 am | | Reply

    Chris Waugh:

    I would rather have racists go and hide than have them raise a middle finger at me…especially if it creates strain on the marriage and kids are having problems at school. Honolulu, HI, Cerriots, CA, Arlington, VA, Bay Area and Seattle are anyday better to live than racist places such as Mountain Brook, AL or Mesa, AZ, where people consider even sixth generation Chinese Americans to be foreigners although these white people may be only third generation American. Would you want to live peacefully with hidden racists not bothering me or would you want to stopped by Sheriff Arapio because he considers you a foreigner? Would you rather have Sheriff Arapio not investigate crimes against your children because he does not consider them American? Or even better, would you like to be thrown in jail like some of the US born citizens considered “foreign” by the white racists in Alabama and Georgia? I think I would rather be in Honolulu or Cerritos, CA or for that matter Arlington, VA (where I currently reside…absolutely no problems here!)

  13. Bruce
    Bruce December 6, 2011 at 10:48 am | | Reply

    Yes, “some” friends can be trusted but only to a certain level. “friends” like Jocelyn mentioned above are not friends. They are called ” ACQUAINTANCES”. Hopefully, Jocelyn is facing verbal discrimination ( talking behind your back). I don’t think it’s physcial violence or else you have to learn how to use a gun, AR15 etc if they will do harm to you. Get a conceit permit like me and get gun training. If a friend that you can trust with your life than he/she is your BEST friend. If you hang out 5 to 7 days a week with those friends and they pour their heart out like me than they are TRUE friends. Yes, “friends” can betray you. You guys have to listen to me a little bit here that please DO NOT disclose a lot of personal info. to “friend /acquaintances” ( not real best friends) at work or gatherings. I have tons of “friends” 12 yrs ago but now only 1 or 2 best friends that I can COUNT ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the rest, I treat them like acquaintance!!!!! Listen again guys, that no matter how nice you are or how much you help people, people will always talk bad about you. I deal with people daily and this my experience. I’m only a stranger on this website and I give you the truth here already. Just image in real life, what kind of friend I can be to you guys. You be the judge of that!

    Bruce ” It’s time to rumble!”

  14. Friend
    Friend December 6, 2011 at 3:12 pm | | Reply

    I wish I could know more about what happened, but it’s definitely appropriate to keep it private if it’s too personal and hurtful to share.

    Stay strong and God bless you all.

  15. Chiao
    Chiao December 7, 2011 at 5:53 am | | Reply

    Ok but what really happened back then? I’m confused, you wrote about this terrible thing that happened but we don’t really know what exactly was that… On the other note, I feel for you 🙁 I’m in a LDR with a Chinese guy and on top of that, we arent planning to live in each other’s countries so we will have to face many hardships to find a country in which we can settle…. sigh. But he means too much to me to just let go.

  16. cool
    cool December 7, 2011 at 5:56 am | | Reply

    @sveta.

    this is not discrimination. I met several church people – that’s how they think. They believe the females should stick close to females at all times and same goes for the males. Even if for example, I was going out with my friend and her husband and younger brother sharing a car. She told thats the way things should be and should stay. She told me to sit next to her at the front passenger seat while she was driving and she asked her husband to sit at the back with her younger brother.

  17. David
    David December 7, 2011 at 6:05 am | | Reply

    “I’m in a LDR with a Chinese guy and on top of that, we arent planning to live in each other’s countries so we will have to face many hardships to find a country in which we can settle..”

    If you have a graduate degree and you are well qualified try Singapore. You will be treated very well. The country is very strict about racial harrassment or threats. You may also want to try Hawaii.

  18. David
    David December 7, 2011 at 6:07 am | | Reply

    “this is not discrimination. I met several church people – that’s how they think. They believe the females should stick close to females at all times and same goes for the males. Even if for example, I was going out with my friend and her husband and younger brother sharing a car. She told thats the way things should be and should stay. She told me to sit next to her at the front passenger seat while she was driving and she asked her husband to sit at the back with her younger brother.”

    Are you sure you are not in Tamil Nadu, India? That is how they do things over there. They even separate the pews into male and female. Most husbands and wives dont sit next to each other with their families. Girls go with mom and boys go with dad.

  19. Bruce
    Bruce December 7, 2011 at 10:11 am | | Reply

    It doesn’t matter what kind of discriminations we’re facing, it’s still wrong. You can get discriminated from getting a job promotion, being waited on at a restaurant and “close friends/ group” discrimination. Your viewpoints , the ways you act or look or speak will get you discriminated. I used to know several groups of friends and we hung out frequently but now I haven’t seen them. I keep my distance because I know where I stand and I don’t need to teach them more things ( they might backstab me in the future). I have done so much for them but I didn’t get recognize . Seriously, we MUST not move to different cities /states or countries because we are not criminals . We are loyal, tax paying, law obeying citizens. You guys talk like we are bunch of convicts running from the laws or something! If they don’t like you, “F” them. Call a cop on them. You know there are robberies, serial killers,child molesters , slow economy etc etc etc more important to fix rather to deal with interracial couples. If you think it’s that bad , why don’t we give problems to President Obama. He is mixed. Because I have a fighter attitude that’s why I write and sound like this. Please don’t move, stay where you are. Change companies, change your friends, change your attitudes. This will be my last comment on this subject or maybe my last comment on this website.

    Bruce

  20. cool
    cool December 8, 2011 at 4:35 am | | Reply

    david

    no I live in a civilised western country… it’s common sense too. would you trust your daughter to sit with a bunch of strangers who are hormonal teenagers boys who can keep their mannerisms and appearances under control but not their thoughts about the opposite sex?.

  21. David
    David December 8, 2011 at 9:12 am | | Reply

    “no I live in a civilised western country… it’s common sense too. would you trust your daughter to sit with a bunch of strangers who are hormonal teenagers boys who can keep their mannerisms and appearances under control but not their thoughts about the opposite sex?.”

    I will be fair. I will not even trust my son to sit with a bunch of strangers who are teenage girls, especially white teenage girls down south…unless I want him to disappear from my life!

  22. sam
    sam December 8, 2011 at 6:48 pm | | Reply

    @Jocelyn,
    cheer up ! At least now you know who are really your true friends and who are the frauds and the phoneys, people who you think are your real friends and now it turns out they are not real friends at all.

  23. Sean
    Sean December 8, 2011 at 8:41 pm | | Reply

    It’s unfortunate that such things have happened. I can’t offer you anything material since I don’t know what the situation is. But I wish the best of luck to you and John. I know how tough things can be.

  24. Megan
    Megan December 8, 2011 at 9:30 pm | | Reply

    I’m sorry you’ve experienced this, such injustice on a basic level. I know it makes you feel powerless, but speaking out on a blog, or in a conversation, let’s you take that power back.

  25. cool
    cool December 9, 2011 at 5:00 am | | Reply

    bruce..

    i would rather move if i was jocelyn than deal with the pile of shit that would make me depressed everyday. If there’s an opportunity to move to greener pasture… i applause you(jocelyn) for doing so 🙂

  26. David
    David December 9, 2011 at 10:43 am | | Reply

    Yes indeed…Idaho true to its form…..

    http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/hbo/2011/dec/08/duroc-idaho-racist-image-alive-well/

    I dont even know how a mixed couple can put up with this crap!

  27. Tuan
    Tuan December 9, 2011 at 11:50 am | | Reply

    I’m a big fan of your blog, though I have never written any comments before. But I feel that I should say something now. You have been an inspiration for me with your passionate support of love among people from different walks of life. I’m sorry to read about your recent run-in with racism. Don’t let the ignorance dim your light. You have lots of people in your corner.

  28. cool
    cool December 10, 2011 at 5:46 am | | Reply

    jocelyn

    it seems like youre trying to convey in this entry of yours that
    none of the people you consider as friends is comfortable enough
    to stand up for you and pretending to be something they shouldn’t or was hiding their true sentiments about your interracial relationship until the ugly truth came out

  29. David
    David December 11, 2011 at 3:04 pm | | Reply

    http://bostonglobe.com/ideas/2011/12/11/workaholic-dads-raise-bullies/M3cIMGSwkCxofvTna9oWnK/story.html

    The persistent dating color line

    Along with the civil rights movement came greater acceptance of interracial relationships in America. But how real and widespread was this change? Based on a nationally representative survey, sociologists suggest that the answer is not very. Only 46 and 62 percent of white men said they would be completely open to a relationship with a black or Asian partner, respectively. Although white women seem to be more tolerant of interracial relationships in general, they’re even less willing to actually engage in them: 35 and 39 percent said they’d be completely open to a relationship with a black or Asian partner, respectively. Meanwhile, there is a large group of people–especially white women–who won’t even consider interracial dating: 39 and 50 percent of white men and women, respectively, won’t consider a black partner at all, and 26 and 49 percent of white men and women, respectively, won’t consider an Asian partner. The sociologists speculate, in part based on prior literature, that white women “anticipate more family disapproval if they engage in interracial relationships” whereas, for white men, an interracial relationship “raises fewer questions about their manhood or their life chances.”

    Herman, M. & Campbell, M., “I Wouldn’t, But You Can: Attitudes toward Interracial Relationships,” Social Science Research (forthcoming).

  30. Bruce
    Bruce December 13, 2011 at 1:03 pm | | Reply

    We called friends who betrayed us that we trusted ” ,bone flipper” . Bone flipper translates in Cantonese is called traitor. I have meaning phases for traitors but it’s hard to translate . People that talk to you and hang out with you all the time can betray you. We must test our “friends” for several yrs on trust in order to know if they are really our friends and that can take yrs to know. Some ” friends” are very sissy and they don’t possess the courage , intergrity and caring to protect or support you in time of need like with John’s case above here. If you are as a true friend say one kind word/saying , the whole situation can be changed or saved. It doesn’t matter what I type or what I say, most people won’t understand what I mean because they haven’t been there before. Maybe some of you are still young and naive but I have tried it so now it’s your turn on feeling the pain of being betrayed.

    Bruce

  31. doorhalfopen
    doorhalfopen December 31, 2011 at 6:32 am | | Reply

    You should move to California.

    No, really. It’s one thing for AMWF relationships to be rare in a state. It’s another matter altogether if you’re facing discrimination from everyone, including prior “close friends”. Life’s too short to have to deal with nonsense like that.

  32. Lynn
    Lynn January 6, 2012 at 6:49 pm | | Reply

    I’m Asian and I’ve lived in Vancouver, Canada since I was a child. I agree with the posters that cities with a high concentration of Asians are easier for mixed-race couples. But I have to put in my two cents about the issue of “digging in” and staying where you are: don’t. Don’t dig in and stay. You have a single, precious life, and you’ve chosen to spend it with what sounds like a wonderful man. Like one of the posters said, life is far too short to “fight” against racists or to attempt to build a community in an inhospitable city! By doing so, you’d be living to refute their racism, but you’d still be defined by their racism. I wish you all the best in finding a more welcoming home elsewhere.

  33. Bruce
    Bruce February 20, 2012 at 8:07 am | | Reply

    Sterotypes and discrimination happen in sports also so it could happen anywhere. Google :Jeremy Lin: His Impact On Changing The Perception Of The Asian American Male . You can watch him on youtube.com against the NBA Champion Dallas Mavs. Lin, Knicks defeated the Mavs. This time I don’t think there is any BS on him anymore. Sport anchor , sport writer and some athletes talked bad (” he’s asian so he gets lots of attention, women will feel a few inch of pain ( his penis size) or headline like Chink in armor ” about him . Nobody from NBA came to recruit when he was in H.S when he took his team to the state Championship or when he was in Harvard . Those coaches said they’ve overlooked him ? To me ,overlooked = discriminate him becase he is ASIAN. Before LINSANITY started worldwide, I’ve told all you Asian men out there to ignore what media and surveys had to tell you. Don’t believe them! stop the sterotypes! We have to be persistant in any professional fields. America loves Lin because of his underdog story and he didn’t give up eventhough stanford Univ. and 2 or 3 NBA teams cut him. He was a benchformer 3 weeks ago but god has its way for this right timing. NY and the whole country go crazy on Linsanity right now!! Ignore what people think that we’re outsiders, or that we’re weak or even that we’re feminine looking or even you can’t do this job because you sound or look asian or even you don’t have leadership because you’re asian.

  34. Enrico Loo
    Enrico Loo July 1, 2014 at 1:50 am | | Reply

    I went to College in Mid-West (Kansas & Iowa) . It’s very rare to find Asian Men with Caucasian spouse. On the other hand the reverse is common. One of my friend is Chinese-Malaysian and his wife is White American, they met in grad school. They moved to Boston, MA. Many Americans believe Asian countries are mono racial thanks to Hollywood stereotypes. However Singapore, Malaysia, Myanmar (Burma), Cambodia, Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines, Macau are multi-racial.

  35. Singing Man
    Singing Man July 1, 2014 at 2:21 am | | Reply

    Actually Chinese men /Irish women couple existed in USA during the Gold Rush period. At that time Irish Catholics faces discrimination and considered non-white by the Anglos. Majority of Chinese in US that time were predominantly male. There were marriages between Chinese men and Irish women until the Miscegenation Laws was introduced. If you read about the conjoined twin (siamese twin) Chang and Eng Bunker were Chinese-Thai and both were married to Scot-American women. Their sons fought in the Confederate Army.

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