Recently, a reader wrote the following to me:
I remember when I was back in [city in China] I was with a large group of Westerners for our orientation and a lot of us got to talking about potentially starting relationships in China. There was one American girl, who was very pleasant but kind of heavyset and nothing special to look at, who said she wouldn’t settle for anything less than Jay Chou or a local Chinese rapper we knew who was modelesque stunning. Another man on our orientation, who is fifty years old though not bad looking, also said he would only go for girls between the ages of 25-30 who were “drop dead gorgeous.”
From what I could gather from talking to these two individuals, they didn’t have the same attitude about dating Western people. When it came to dating Western men, the aforementioned American girl wouldn’t entertain the idea of looking for a Brad Pitt and so too with the older man. It got me wondering why, when it comes to dating, Western people feel a certain sense of entitlement with Chinese people that they wouldn’t otherwise feel with other Western people.
…Personally, when I walk down the street and see a stunning Chinese guy I of course ogle, but I also think to myself ‘He’s totally out of my league’, which I would also do back in [Western country]. Yet some of the girls I was with don’t seem to think that way.
As astonishing as this is, I’m not entirely surprised there are foreigners who actually believe these things. The “Charisma Man” phenomenon across Asia that foreign men experience makes them feel as if they are the next Brad Pitt. Meanwhile, foreign women — especially white women — are often showered with compliments about their appearance (something I experienced once in a beauty salon). And overall the fact that China still believes “foreign is better” means that foreigners of all genders — especially white foreigners — feel as if they’re standing on a pedestal compared to the locals. So then it’s easy to think, “hey, these people aren’t my equals because I’m clearly above them.” And that somehow translates into the idea that you deserve only a “9” or a “10” to date in China. It’s what you call social dominance — creating arbitrarily set hierarchies based, in this case, on ethnicity and/or race.
But I don’t care how much you can rationalize it — in my book, it’s just wrong.
I’m glad the reader doesn’t share those ideas, and she’s not alone. I remember when I first came to China and found myself falling in love with a Chinese man. Like the reader, I considered him completely out of my league — something I captured in this excerpt from my post titled Chinese Men Are Sexy:
In October, 1999, it was as if I’d finally met my long lost locker pinup guy in the flesh. A sullen, James Dean type in a black leather jacket with a perfect ass. The kind of guy that made cliches like “tall, dark and handsome” drip from your mouth. It didn’t matter that he was spoken for, with a modelesque girlfriend that seemed worlds (and heavens) away from the mortal girl I was. He drove me so crazy, I spent weeks taking cold showers and long bicycle rides just to cool down.
We ended up dating for a while, though our relationship ended months after he left China. But when I look back on our time together, I still can’t believe I dated him.
And I still can’t believe I married John — who is not only handsome but also talented, generous, caring and an amazing human being. He’s the entire package in my opinion, and I never considered him a “sure thing” just because I happened to be American and he happened to be Chinese.
So when I think about these foreigners the reader wrote of and their sense of entitlement when it comes to dating Chinese, I feel they’re entitled to nothing more than a good kick in the butt.
I enjoyed this post and I also feel annoyed whenever I meet or see those types of people who just expect to “bat” above their average. But this doesn’t seem to be changing anytime soon because this notion that Westerners can bat higher than in their home countries is perpetually reinforced by people who do end up dating better looking people. I always wonder when I see couples like this who is using whom, and if they are both using each other for different reasons. Of course, love comes in all types, but sometimes you just have to wonder.
I’ve never met a female expat who felt this way. In my opinion, western women in China are either disinterested in Chinese men (typical), or else they have pretty realistic expectations. Western men are a different story. Unfortunately, the idea that white men can date the most beautiful Chinese girls is reinforced by quite a few Chinese as well as fellow expats.
I have a Chinese coworker who always likes to tell this “funny” story about her college classmate who ended up marrying a French guy. None of the other classmates can believe that the French guy chose this girl, because “by Chinese standards”, she is not beautiful. I always suggest that maybe the white guy wasn’t such a catch, or of course maybe he was dating her for reasons other than her looks, but my coworker never changes her mind that the French dude could have gotten a prettier girlfriend, by virtue of being French.
Foreigners (white) benefit from being exotic in another country. Hollywood has also sold their images abroad. For men, your status and personality besides appearance will play important roles in dating. I think Asians tend to rate appearance below status for men. I find it is less true in the west. Plenty of Asian women will only go for foreigners. It is like an acquired taste that won’t change. So they will choose whoever will date them as well. I see unlikely parings all over Asia. A poor and young village girl sometimes ends up marring a grandfather type. She could better better off for all I know.
I know some white women who have trouble find dates at home and find themselves surrounded by Asian men. It is also a show of status for those men. Also, people are curious. But I don’t know the motive is to be serious and marry eventually.
I think Jocelyn and John are both considered average looking in their own ethnic group. But you see what you want to see.
Brad Pitt is handsome? It’s your opinion only. Lots of men are better than him. When you look closer at the most goodlooking person, you will find something not perfect. It’s all about media and how you’re corrupted by it. Maybe I see too many people around me.
Thanks for sharing this, is the first time I “hear” someone says something like that.
But I did realize / hear the same about the difference when it comes to talk about the look of Chinese women. I have heard many times that “that girl is not beautiful” and from my view that girl is really pretty.
Different standards, different eyeholder.
I can´t know about the aspect of Western women because I didn´t hear about it. But I guess it happens with other nationalities.
I think it’s wrong of you all to assume white people go to china to get the hottest girls. What is hot?? Personally I think girls that the local Chinese consider really ugly to be hot and I’ve met many Chinese who think really bad looking white girls look really attractive. I would argue for the complete opposite of what you are saying. //white guy
I think people who are choosy at home will still do abroad. But you will find quite a few men go to Asia to get what is missing at home. For some, it becomes a bad habit after a while. It takes efforts to remember who you were or tries to forget completely.
@Martin
Most Chinese men I know like curves. it is harder to come by among Chinese women. I am not sure why American is so obsessed with small frame and skinny women. It is all they see and think how Asian women should be.
I am married to a Chinese, although I often tried to help foreigners in China, I often found them to feel they were entitled to so much more in China than they really were.
I did , however, find some very close friends I still am in touch with. But overall, my experience with other foriegners was not always positive.
@askdsk I’m European and I don’t like skinny girls. I have no problem getting girls in Europe but my standard for exotic girls is LOWER, not HIGHER. That’s the only reason I have an easier time getting a girlfriend in China because I think small eyes and big heads is really attractive. I would argue that most young white guys like myself feel the same… But maybe it’s just a European thing…
Spot on. I lived in Thailand for a while. While it’s not China, this same exact thing exists there.
For starters, it’s openly acknowledged that creepy, old, fat white guys travel there often to find a pretty, young wife who probably would not have given them the time of day otherwise. Thai people in general hate that, but they shrug it off because these girls are usually gold diggers and it’s better for the poor white guy to end up with her than a good Thai man. (Their words, not mine.) They also like to say that girls have two kinds of personalities; there are the sweet girls who will take care of you and look after your needs, and there are the spicy Paris Hilton types who demand pampering. The girls who end up with foreign guys are usually the spicy type; Thai people view it as the white guy’s loss.
On the surface, these girls are drop-dead effing gorgeous. I might swing the other way for some of them. And seeing old white man after old white man end up with a hot, young girl certainly reinforces their idea that they’re “entitled” to the hottest of hot Thai women. But beneath the surface of all that, beneath the veneer of beauty, my Thai friends seem to believe that a great majority of these women are disgusting, fugly human beings on the inside and they would rather shove these girls off on the white guys than have to deal with that problem themselves.
In their eyes, it’s not much of a loss.
On the other hand, while white girls who date Thai men are not common by any means, they do exist… and they typically end up chasing the top-tier men. But I don’t know if I can blame them entirely, as it’s often encouraged more by the men who are looking for a status symbol and a trophy on their arm than it is by the women just chasing whoever is the sexiest of sexy. Perhaps this can be attributed to the fact that it’s a lot rarer for Asian men to be portrayed as sexy in the West and these girls have nothing to go on, nobody to judge by, so they just rely on the cues of who actually bothers to chase them. I am reluctant to say that they only pursue the top-tier men out of an active decision to do so.
As in much of Asia, a lot of the beautiful/ugly dichotomy is based on skin color. As we all know, light skin is prized. It’s also very difficult to come by in Thailand. When you see a white/Asian couple in Thailand, it’s almost NEVER a white and dark-skinned Thai. As much as I want to hold back in saying that white people who go to Thailand and date Thai people are selfish and entitled in only pursuing the hottest of the hot, I cannot help but thinking there’s a lot of truth to that behind closed doors.
Why? Because all it took for me to instantly become the most popular person in my village, which was predominantly dark-skinned, was for me to tell one joke, just ONE joke, that was along the lines of, “Hell no, I don’t like foreign men. White skin is for women and gays. Real men have dark skin.” Accustomed to being told by Thais and whites alike that they were unattractive (the light-skinned women in the village having been snatched up by white men long ago and the men all being dark because they were rice planters), the villagers instantly took a liking to me because, in their eyes, I was going for the opposite end of the spectrum, the LOW end of the totem pole.
So there’s definitely truth to this. Having never lived in China, I can’t judge how much truth there is in Thailand versus in China. But I still don’t know that I could make a sweeping judgment in the case of women who date in Thailand. It is painfully obvious with the men, not so much with the women.
I often fantasized of meeting and sharing a kiss with Jay Chou in the past, but somehow I doubt we’ll be able to date each other. I don’t expect to ever date someone who’s a movie star, but I’m still hoping for someone handsome and attractive, even if it is just a pipe dream.
@Alice Zindagi
I think it is about the same thinking in China. But China has a larger educated class. Appearance won’t change your social class. It plays out in dating among two partners.
A large percentage of Asian women still go after passports and think marriage as a good way for better lives. Unless there is greater gender equality in Asia, women will use marriage for advancement. Sounds familiar in western history?
I don’t think I’ve come across this sense of entitlement in terms of a sharp difference in the attractiveness of one person over another, but I’ve definitely seen foreign men behave as though they have their pick of the litter when it comes to dating abroad.
You are indeed a woman of valor, “Eshet Chayil.”
“What a rare find is a capable wife!
Her worth is far beyond that of rubies.
Her husband puts his confidence in her,
And lacks no good thing.
She is good to him, never bad,
All the days of her life.
Many women have done well,
But you surpass them all.”
I think most female expats figure out pretty quickly that the compliments are often just something people say, and that they aren’t always genuine. I’m not quite sure it’s the same situation with male expats.
That said, I think part of the reason why female expats have a higher standard is because we figure that, if we’re going to have more of a difficult time with communication and cultural references, they had better compensate for it in some other way. Otherwise, what’s the point of dating at all?
@ Jocelyn. Thanks once again for the great post. I just somehow love the idea that we foreign men (especially American men) can go to China and have our easy picking of those Chinese cherries. I do not want to sound like a racist or a misogynist but I have heard on many occasions that we foreign men have it so easy there in China that it is like picking cherries. Hence the term “cherry picking” was developed. My grandfather told me before his death that when he was in Shanghai in around 1947-1948 he and other U.S. soldiers, airmen, and sailors recalled very few lonely nights. The Chinese girls there were so easily accepting of the White boys and so readily available that they said that it was as easy as “cherry picking.” I believe that not all Chinese girls are easy because when I was in H.K. last year, I was unable to pick-up any of those H.K. girls due to the language problems and due to my family’s interference. But I have heard from many of my fellow White boys that they so easily and successfully cherry picked the finest and the prettiest girls in China. I now have an ABC girlfriend and she was not easy to catch and I undertook some effort to make her mine. I believe that the girls in China are easier to pick-up than the ABC girls, because the ABC girls are smarter as they (ABC girls) are more familiar with Western pick-up methods and know how to defend against these methods. Also, the ABC girls see so many of us White boys that we do not appear to be exotic to them, unlike the Chinese cherries who find us White boys more exotic as we are more rare in China.
So, I encourage my fellow American boys (White, Black, etc.) to go cherry picking in China and may you all have a fun and easy time!!!!!
@Manny,
I don´t think Jocelyn thinks that. She didn´t say that at all.
I believe Chinese girls (ABC or not) are enough intelligent to filter men who think like that, after all is not very difficult to see it.
It does sound bad what you said, as bad as it is, not only thinking like that, also the vocabulary and the fact that you kind of “promote it”.
I can tell these girls are intelligent, and if it happens that you or your friends with that mentality come to China and have lots of success, with that idea you have in mind, then you are totally wrong. That will mean that´s not the great girl you are looking for, she might be even laughing at the guys.
Even women who date men with weird ideas, bad comments about their race, they know what they are doing, and they are far more clever than that person who thinks is kicking their ass.
Don’t underestimate people
There you are, Manny.
I know you filthy lurker will come out and spew out your grandfather adventure in China every now and then.
Initially I was composing insightful discourse on AF/WM couples and then boom!, saw your comment. It’s not worth my effort to change your perception and attitude even if you’re a WASP/Blacks/Jews/Asians behind the keyboard, trying to pretend you’re a southern white boy who is willing to share his two sisters for any Asians men for pounding.
I have provided any cogent reasons why you’re pretending like you’re a southern white boy who recently got an ABC and frequently found commenting on diagonally opposite Asian Male/White Female personal blog for his grandfather adventure in China. For 1st timer, they think you’re being curious, sharing stories, but for me, you’re being delicately insulting, or better yet disgusting.
Some may call it Freedom of Speech. I call it “Letting the cesspool stew” instead of nipping in the bud. I’m actually glad that United States of America still has someone like you. Spread the words ABCs are easy, Chinese girls are easy. You’ll be appreciated. After all, self-destruction is way more efficient than someone else help.
By the way, don’t lurk here too long. Otherwise your ABC girlfriend is waiting on you and won’t be satisfied. Go my friend. Savor the moment when the “cherry” is ripe.
@Rdm,
Thanks! I was starting to think that I was the only one having that feeling.
I don’t even read “Manny” posts and I think he/she would get bored and leave if people stopped responding altogether, either positively or negatively.
@ C – you make it sound like it’s only the white girl who’s going to have cross-cultural and language difficulties. The Chinese guy has nothing to “make up for”. He is facing the same difficulties the girl is.
I agree with C about girls figuring out the insincerity of compliments sooner. I think in general this is because girls tend to have a lower opinion of their own attractiveness than guys do. I’m likely to doubt a guy who tells me I’m gorgeous, no matter where he’s from, simply because I can look in a mirror and honestly see that I’m average. I don’t remember where it was but at one point a year ago I heard that guys tend to look in a mirror and consider themselves more attractive than they really are; I asked several guy friends about this and they said they agree with that. So I suppose when a girl tells a guy he’s so handsome he’s more likely to believe it.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Apparently East and West have different view on what is beautiful. So be it. We may just benefit from it 🙂
you opened up a topic that i posted on my facebook…and boy did it get the crowd going….i am going to have to discuss this topic on my own site. I am so tired of the people you are referring to in your blog….bottom feeders wanted to catch someone at the top of the food change…pitiful…
I am an African American, so I don’t get the Chinese man falling at my feet syndrome. I so wish I did though. I am like you and I think that good looking men in China and everywhere else are way out of my league. In my viewpoint Asian men are the best looking so I consider myself unworthy! LOL. I do see what you mentioned with my male expat colleagues though!
To me most asian men are really attractive. I am thrilled if any Asian man takes notice of me. I can never compete with the beautiful Asian women I see, so there is in fact no sense of entitlement for me whatsoever. And I completely agree that Manny’s posts should be skipped by all readers. Please ignore him, for all our sake.
The whole world is watching Hollywood. I think Asian girls who have exposure to those media have a good sense what is considered to be good looking. If a male expat wants to find games in Asian women, I don’t think it is too difficult. Basically any small framed Asian woman can be viewed as attractive by these men. At the same time, a western guy with a larger than average Asian body build can be more attractive to some Asian women. But they can both be someone ignored at home and stand out being an interracial couple. I saw some girls bragged because it meant they could be westernized and get out of Asia eventually. Some wives don’t want their men to leave Asia in fear of losing the exotic status as well.
I came across some well-matched parings. Most attractive western men tend to end up with their own women as you expect to happen.
This quote truly speaks volumes, lol.
“I think part of the reason why female expats have a higher standard is because we figure that, if we’re going to have more of a difficult time with communication and cultural references, THEY HAD BETTER COMPENSATE FOR IT IN SOME OTHER WAY”
On the other hand, I’m glad Sara gets it.
” you make it sound like it’s only the white girl who’s going to have cross-cultural and language difficulties. The Chinese guy has nothing to “make up for”. He is facing the same difficulties the girl is.”
What fuels the “entitlement” spoken of in this blog entry is when Western feelings of superiority collide with Eastern feelings of inferiority (manifested through adding value for “whiteness” and devaluing everyone else who isn’t white, including themselves).
So Asians who feel that way, or in this case, the Chinese, shoulder half of the blame. I shake my head in disgust.
“If you couldn’t get a “Brad Pitt” to date you in your home country, why do you think you somehow deserve nothing less than his standard of men because you’re in China?”
White Skin Color Privilege.
Now we definitely dont have Manny equivalent of an Asian guy drooling over white women in America, do we? I will bet we will not have one during my lifetime.
Dont be so quick to answer that, did you even hear about Kpop? Or how about japanese anime in france and germany. Soon the Chinese will pick on that. ands you can see the Hollywood jews handing the key to asians for economic and political reasons. Israel hates Obama for not falling in line with Netanyahu and was frequently in China(like 6-7 visits since last year) for up to full weeks of discussions.
@Sara
I think you can get good compliments for average looking in Asia. It depends on how many foreigners they have met. Same is true for Asians in western eyes. When people have seen enough, you will be ranked differently. I met plenty of Asian girls making comments how average German guys are better looking than Americans, which is true in my opinion. It shows people would become pickier after a while.
I never thought Brad Pitt is ragged, handsome.
I feel pity for those Asian women who thought White Males are better than their fellow Asian men. (Not to refer to all Asian women). When Asians, especially Chinese immigrated to US centuries ago, there was a law that prohibit Chinese men marrying White women in order to preserve their race. They have struggled through tough times, and now when those Caucasian men go to China, they have too much to learn from the history.
It’s gonna be a long story to talk about those AF/WM relationship. Just to share with those White guys how it tastes, Chinese government should slap those behavior happening in her own land. Just give them one or two slaps.
I don’t give a tiny rat X to those AF/WM couples purely out of fetish/exotic obsession.
Lee Kuan Yew once said “You may call me chink. But you can’t change what I can do.” You may sit on the other side of spectrum having vitreous hatred towards LKY or whatever. But as a full blown Chinese from Singapore, I have no way inferiority complex towards those guailo.
Anyone familiar with this quote;
“”Pride in one’s own race – and that does not imply contempt for other races – is also a normal and healthy sentiment. I have never regarded the Chinese or the Japanese as being inferior to ourselves. They belong to ancient civilizations, and I admit freely that their past history is superior to our own. They have the right to be proud of their past.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorary_Aryan
@Rdm,
Did you just quote Hitler in the same comment you quoted Ross from Friends?….
As of Asian ethnicity myself, I do embrace what I am but I do not possess any pride about it. I also think think white people do dominate in many areas – aesthetically, culturally, genetically and intellectually. Then why else would most of the asians try to imitate their (white) physical white characteristics through plastic/cosmetic surgery and dying their hair brown /brown highlights (bird shit /paint slather all over on their hair) (and lack originality in thinking). I guess it’s a way of getting on top of the competitive side of things.
@Laura,
Yes, you couldn’t be more right. I’m a history and science buff.
The quote is from Phoebe’s and Hitler’s respectively.
I dwell in Jocelyn’s blog to teach any idiots occasionally.
@*-*
You’re entitled to your opinion. And I don’t even bother to scoop you up your personality. Everything you said is reflective of what western media has been feeding you for centuries. I’m not even sure if you are a real Asian. My 4 or 5 paragraphs won’t enlighten you anything but a typical school homework. If you think US comes to the world stage just for the sake of their creativity and invention, read this book by Clyde Prestowitz,
The Betrayal of American Prosperity, to give you a snippet, Read the transcript
https://www.carnegiecouncil.org/studio/multimedia/20100602b/index.html
And if you still believe Westerners are better than Asians, you are welcome to come to the United States of America and explore yourself.
A Chinese American guy from MIT invented “card counting” and exploited cleverly in Las Vegas. He wrote a book “Bringing Down the House”. Then Hollywood made a film “21” and feed you audience with White guy as a clever math guy. And the end result, you think Asians don’t have creativity.
A Taiwanese Dr. Yuan-Tsong Chen from Duke found a cure for Pompe disease, and Hollywood don’t forget to feed you with a cheap flick like “Extraordinary Measures” with a white guy Harrison Ford. Of course you think Whites are doing a good job. Yes, at least deceiving the general public. And I think Hollywood is doing a great job in that sense.
A social networking site “Facebook” was what reflective of “Friendster” I grew up using from Asia. And Mark Zuckerberg openly admitted he got his idea from Friendster. And you do like “Facebook” better than “Friendster”, right? It originated from US. That’s the selling point.
Before iPhone, there was iPod shuffle. The “shuffle” technology was bought from Creative Technology originated in Singapore. And yet, we praised Steve Jobs for very creative. (Not that Steve Jobs is a mere person, he’s an inspiring person.) But it works for you.
I can go on and on. But I don’t have time to lift up you spirit. At the end of the day, he who does the work speaks the volume.
Oh yea, those White chicks tanning their skins under the sun along the beach will be definitely worshipping Latinoooooo in your definition.
*-* is actually Manny LMAO, the free cherry pick up guy, Good luck for thinking Chinese women are free cherries, LAMO, I am pretty sure, if you picked up free one with risks of having STD or HIV. well some of rotten Cherries here need to be paid, still can’t granunttee you that they are clean at all, people like you guys are shaollowly retarded.
Sometimes it is western men’ confidence in their games. Most Asian women are not approached by men constantly. The dating culture is different. Imagine the culture shock for a local Asian girl to be hit on by some white guy.
I frequently hear women say you have to point a gun at an Asian guy for him to approach a non-Asian girl. Or all the Asian men never look at them. It is not entirely true at bigger cities anymore, but Asian men don’t hit on girls as a way to date and start relationships. So the western way of approaching an attractive girl and get lucky is overrated. Having said that, many western women in Asia have to lower that part of the expectation in men. Things are different from back home. You can’t expect men to do all the work to approach and flirt.
Asian guy only needs to figure out the cultural difference and carry on what you do the best. Run away from women who make you feel inferior or have false sense of entitlement.
hum…. “out of my league” just figuring out that is reflecting somewhat reality of Chinese local guys, VS white gals, it still bitter sweet awkardness of what is happening now, here in Beijing or any large Chinese cities in General. the biggest issue is that, there is still a barrie between both sides, which is chance of communicating…. so speaking of China is cool for experienced AMWF realtionship, however it wasn’t functioning as a bridge for people who are looking for this type of relationship yet, due to many of you still have hard time to make effective communication with right One. so people have confusing time which is understandble. no matter you are Asian or Non Asians once you are looking for the cross culture dating partners, you have to had be ready to throw all your life in the past away, restarted, and possibly scarificing all you had, including the mind, and trying understanding Chinese locals, expecially the younger people today, make chances to communicate, then you would find youself a surprises, Today China is still developing, you may have to be disappointing at the hard conditions here, so be prepared and be tough, unless you find yourself will never belong, so make right choices for yourself , and make it right …… leave or fight on this day….. pardon my english, I hate it. so don’t judge.
@Chen Yong
I think the communication part is a big barrier. Western men can get away with no knowing the language. In fact, some Asian girls can go nuts if they only speak a few Chinese words. You hear all the compliments and giggles. It is relatively rare for a foreign women to speak Chinese fluently. A local guy will almost have to have good language ability. That eliminates a whole lot of people.
Ultimately it is power dynamics in relationship. I doubt a white guy has such an easy time in western Europe without knowing enough local languages. So Asian girls have to be more demanding somehow.
@David and @** may be the same person talking rubbish.
Jay Chou doesn’t even look that good, according to his own admission or his fans’ opinions. They like him because of his talent as a composer.
Foreign women are interested. Its the Chinese men that are inflexible and have fears. This will change. I believe shanghainese men are closing the gap (hopefully). When Asian men surpass Asian women in IR dating is real change, be it with Caucasians, black, latino women, etc. This is my dream.
Asian guys can go IR. People are people. The only reason we have trouble is our lack of self confidence and visibility. But then again, it depends on the individual.
I have dream that one day Chinese men start marrying foreign women in droves. There are plenty of options for them. A Chinese man doesn’t need a Chinese woman absolutely. Hopefully, Shanghai guys can close the gap, motivating their brethren in the other big cities too. Im also working on my IR dating game as well here in Canada. Plenty of whites, blacks, south Asians, and multiracials. Im psyched
Chinese men sell themselves short on this matter. The guys need a wakeup call. Take African, Russian, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, North Korean etc wives. South China borders Vietnam and Thailand. northeast china borders Russia and North Korea. Hell, they can even marry minorities in their own country and the attractive laowai ladies. Chinese men come on bros! Come on!
@forest,
East, West, North and South! In Asia they like more Western features, in the West the East ones. In North Europe for example many people comment about tanned skin and dark curly hair, in South Europe many would describe a blonde woman with blue eyes as a beauty…And so on.
@askdsk,
I agree, I hope I understood the point of Western Europe and languages. It is difficult if you don´t speak several languages because you are surrounded by countries with different languages. Unless you plan to spend your life in your own country, province, city, you will need a second or third language.
@Henry Yeah,
From my point of view Jay Chou doesn´t look bad at all, he has very good pictures with great combinations of his best features: smile like a kid, eyes like a guy looking for troubles and clothes that are difficult to match.
“The Green Hornet”, in that movie he looks very good. He didn´t look that good when he was blonde.
This article is about foreigners who think they are entitled to date “hottest Chinese”. What about those people who are local and just want to date foreigners? What about those foreigners who only date locals who are short and very thing? What about those locals who only date foreigners cause they are taller, whiter and have a big nose? What about foreigners who just date locals to get someone who cooks Chinese food and translates for you? What about locals who only want a foreigner to practice their English?…Finally foreigners or locals is all the same.
Asian men in the west must date IR as the women want nothing to do with us. Its about survival and fighting the good fight. The racist media wants to eliminate our morale but I ignore that KKK tripe. I believe Asian guys are dating more IR than usual. It will be an interesting trend. Until we close the gap, Asian guys will be the target of racist jibes from whites, blacks, latinos, and Asiatic women.
on a sidenote, Chinese men need to take foreign wives. The women are white worshipping and jumping the white bandwagon. When the disease gets contagious, we will see more angry oriental men and women leaving the country in droves. Not a bright prospect for a beautiful civilization.
I wish I was white. In any Asian country, you’ll get so much women because of your skin colour. No work at all. No pain, all gain.
@ Tom Li,
Why do you think men from Shanghai are the ones closing the gap?
If I can tell you a “secret” here in public you won´t find many people who think people from Shanghai are the nicest on Earth.
I am not trying to generalize here, of course Shanghai has nice people, nice men and women.
But you can ask out there and see if women really think men from Shanghai are the ones closing the gap, you can actually ask here and see how many Western women are dating a man from Shanghai.
Sometimes people who come from second / third tier cities are nicer, warmer and more honest. Shanghai is more International but it doesn´t make the people there better in closing those gaps, it is nice when you can be with someone who doesn’t care that much about his possesions, who goes to visit his family, who calls them often, who doesn’t expect you to look like a model and treat you like an accesory.
And I repeat, this is not how everyone is in Shanghai, I have met amazing people, but is interesting that you think Shanghai men are closing that gap…
“And that somehow translates into the idea that you deserve only a “9″ or a “10″ to date in China.”
Wait, it is wrong to want a partner that find attractive? Here I was thinking that was the staple of a relationship, you have to be attracted to your other half. I could be dating a Martian and she still better come in as an 8 in terms of composite attractiveness (physical, personality, and intelligence). Anything below that and I have little confidence my attraction will remain for any kind of long term relationship.
@Tom Li
If anyone is going to close the gap, it will be American born Asians, since starting around the second generation they tend to grow up fully integrated into American society and can move around with a fair amount of ease in both white and Asian social circles.
If you want non natives to close the gap, put the money on the Korean men. Korea’s been both consuming and supplying Western style culture for awhile and that tends to give Koreans a leg up when moving in a Western social circle. They’re likely the group that has the best chance of meeting with the girl’s parents and having it to go well, etc. Plus people like John Cho and most male K-Pop stars are considered handsome by Western standards.
I was going to the gym (I live in Shanghai) and this really handsome guy came to me and said, “你好!” I shook my head thinking he was trying to sell me stuff. He wasn’t. He was simply making small talk and said, “Welcome to Shanghai!” before he took off. Later on, I found out he simply just wanted to talk to me. I honestly thought he was talking to me to sell me something. When an attractive person comes up to talk to me, I think that he or she is going to pull a prank on me. Maybe it’s, “Humilate a fat chick day.” I don’t know. Either that, or I would think, “Are you lost?”
Jay Chou is cool and all, but he really is common look in Taiwan. The only difference is that he is famous and well known. I don’t think he is bad looking but my female Taiwanese friends think he is.
@Eileen,
That situation is so common, isn’t it? In my case if someone that I am not looking at in that moment says hello to me I would think the same…They will try to sell something to me, or offer me a ride in their motorbike or car, take me to a fake market…But it also depends on where I am.
Back home we also have lots of small talks. In shops, restaurants, bars, street…here I kind of avoid them because they lead to the same thing…Are you American? Are you a teacher? Is he your colleague from work? Do you like China?
So I answered so many times..that I totally avoid them…
I have learned so much from small talks with strangers, classmates, etc. Believe the story of “Forest Gump” is a small talk at bus stop 🙂
Is China so different ? It would be a surprise to me.
This thread has seemed to gotten a bit off track of the original post as the conversation has turned a bit toward Chinese guys approaching western girls. It’s an interesting topic too.
I, too, am shocked when a Chinese guy tries talking to me. But it happens and it works! My husband’s assertiveness and courage in (repeatedly) approaching me eventually won me over. 🙂
I think confidence is so important. And while I’m all for women ‘making the first move,’ it can help so much, especially in a foreign environment, if a man does. I realize this isn’t fair, but it’s the truth (in my eyes).
To further this point, western women can totally find Asian guys attract and flock to them in droves. I saw this phenomenon while traveling throughout Indonesia. Indonesian guys, by and large, are confident and flirty–it works for them. I saw lots of foreign girls dating and marrying locals there, much, MUCH more than I see in China.
Anyways, just something to think about. . . .
@forest,
Forest Gump is my favourite movie, I love it!
The thing is that Forest Gump is not a real person, …I wish he was real.
For sure you can have good small talks in China, but I do think small talks are different depending on the country and the individual.
Small talk in Spain: long, personal questions (family, work,…)
Small talk in Finland: I didnt have a small talk in Finland..I had normal talks
Small talk in France: deep, includes strong and controversial topics
Small talk in China: job, country, languages, salary
I am using a general overview, but I have lived in those countries and that’s my experience.
Any of them is better than the other, but they are all different!
Chen Yong,
No, you got it all wrong. Why? you sound like a bully yourself in reallife. haha, I’m not into white people. They seem rather hairy everywhere esp the nostrils and ears and emit a foul odour away. (Must be all that cheese, milk and steak doing it’s injustice)
George,
Wrong, newsflash: You need a reality check.
“I think small eyes and big heads is really attractive.”
lol are you sure it’s a human that you like?
“I have dream that one day Chinese men start marrying foreign women in droves.”
I have dream that people will stop treating multicultural relationships as a commodity or fetish.
Martin,
hmm does sound like you’re talking about a little 10 years young down syndrome boy? – “I think small eyes and big heads is really attractive.”
Not every one’s that shallow…
There’s proof of that 😉
this guy, Anna Chlumsky’s married to, isn’t really Jay Chou. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2321717/Anna-Chlumsky-glows-shows-bump-shiny-drop-waist-dress-Words-Of-War-event.html
@*-*
Anna Chlumsky’s husband has the sex appeal women like.
@R Zhao
I heard unusual AM/WF parings in Indonesia – middle aged white women with good looking young local men. It also happens in Brazil and Caribbean countries. It is not just old white dude dating young Asian ladies.
Agree with confidence – women everywhere need to be chased. Even Sheryl Sandberg talks about this in her new book. But we don’t want to encourage Asian guys to chase after face value. It downgrades the women and downgrades the men too. People need to get over skin color and use common sense in dating.
Exotification / fetishization seems to run both ways in this case. Going back to the whole “eye of the beholder” perspective, I think the standards of beauty / attraction differ between cultures. Therefore there are Asian girls / guys that other Asians might find to be less attractive that an non-Asian (culturally) would find very attractive. A seemingly attractive foreigner might be attracted to someone that the natives find to be less attractive but ultimately, because of the cultural lens that they’re coming from, they still see an attractive person. This creates many seeming mismatches but, hopefully, the individuals involved are attracted to one another.
The same girl who thinks, “He’s totally out of my league” is the same one who will think, “What’s *he* doing with *her*?” What leads to success in dating for women is not beauty, brains, or personality, but initiative and an accepting nature.
@rdm – Definitely take your meaning on the whole Manny issue. His posts are generally the same regardless of the topic. He sort of says “great job!” then segways into his story. Probably a troll who thinks that his story includes enough pressure / sore points that it’ll get a rise out of people. I would generally agree with the other posters and say ignore the troll. I saw you post the XiaXue story on another topic and I thought that was great. Just imagine if it were the same guy…
Anyway, thanks for trying to drop some knowledge, the links and stories are interesting / useful. I particularly like the quote from Hitler – we sometimes forget that just because a person is infamous doesn’t mean that he is devoid of wisdom. Greatness tends to be a quality bereft of an intrinsic moral direction yet within the framework of society, we seem to only be willing to acknowledge the greatness of those whose morality conforms with our social ethics.
Hitler imposes racial supremacy to regions in Eastern Europe in particular and slaughter other racial groups. His people paid maybe greater price at the end of the war. If history provides enough wisdom, It tells people not to dig their graves with that attitude. The repressed can become repressor if provoked. Entitlement assumed is also easier to lose.
@askdsk,
The typical feature I come across from a lot of blogs is one can’t comment with a single paragraph unless one is ready to take any swipe against a single sentence in his comment. When I say “I’m proud of being Chinese”, it comes with any negative feedbacks like “So you’re proud of being a copycat?”, “So you like Communism?”….
I don’t take any comments here seriously unless they come with legitimate reasons to back up their take. My purpose here is I’d display any information/knowledge I have for anybody who think they deserve what they’re entitled rather than just having a white skin.
I’m not trying to dig every chinese graves with that attitude. Neither I’m trying to support Hitler behavior of slaughtering Jews.
This generation should read the late Ho Feng Shan story.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Feng-Shan
No one can change my entitlement I was born with. (Then again one can take any negative swipe at that sentence unless I explain more.) And I won’t because it takes a PhD dissertation to define what is “Entitlement”.
In short, “Entitlement” does not equate to “Arrogance”.
So the bottom line is
“I don’t normally comment,
But when I do,
it’s in paragraph.”
@Rdm
The easiest way to refute an argument is through Ad hominem. Almost everyone knows how to do it. You only have to explain to stupid people what they did once in a while.
@askdsk,
What’re you trying to prove here? Are you picking bones with my statement of Hitler’s honorary statement to East Asian people?
I simply put forward his statement. The statement only if you care (Ad hominem, ugh?).
Then you brought up “His people paid maybe greater price at the end of the war. If history provides enough wisdom, It tells people not to dig their graves with that attitude.”
Did I happen to mention any of my comment where I’m digging that attitude in all of graves?
And you brought up “The repressed can become repressor if provoked. Entitlement assumed is also easier to lose”
That comment is nothing to do with my comment here.
Is that Ad hominem too?
It’s simple. I’m not arguing against anyone here. If you think ” Almost everyone knows how to do it. You only have to explain to stupid people what they did once in a while.”
Just SKIP reading my comment. Simple as that.
@RDM
If you are familiar with history, you would know by the end of war Germany had been divided, its cities bombed, thousands of women and children killed, many more women raped, and millions dislocated from other parts of Europe. Hitler was a monster and crazy. I will never quote him because he made compliments to Asians. In fact, Japanese were treated better than many other ethnic whites in Nazi Germany. Hitler calls greater racial divide and murdered millions and brought down his own people.
We can’t call for equality and feel superior at the same time. Simple as that. Your comments are often condescending.
^
Ugh?
I am a White man and for some reason I feel entitled to only the most beautiful Asian women under 30. Why? I am not sure. But this has always been my attitude and I don’t ever see it changing.
You are lucky that in Asian culture, Asian women /families accept younger women with older men or else you will only deserve an old grandma. In America, you rarely see even older men with younger women as couples even though they are whites.
Where is “Kevin”?
I just noticed his post and guessed it is already deleted?
I started to think Western men are not actually interested in Asian women, they’re actually interested more in “Asian MEN”, really obsessed with Asian men body, physique, penis, load actually.
First they all started off with small penis, then now the duration, and then the load?
Maybe next time, they’d come up with how they’d like Asian men sperms?
Sorry, I had to get this stupidity out of everybody who made stupid comment like they’re giving out the truth.
I don’t know how they know we last for less than one minute. Maybe he tried it before. It all depends on if you have anxiety that day or not. Yup lots of racist comments are still out there for no reason.
I was just searching for this information for some time.
After 6 hours of continuous Googling, finally I got it in your site.
I wonder what is the lack of Google strategy that do not rank
this kind of informative websites in top of the list. Normally the top web sites are full
of garbage.
Well, let’s face it, White people are really popular on the dating scene in China, it’s partly because they are associated with wealth (Western countries being rich in comparison to most of the world) and partly because Chinese beliefs hold that White/fair skins are beautiful (see all those Chinese, both men and women, using whitening creams). Also many Chinese think that White features (long nose, big eyes, sharp edges, …) are much more attractive than Asian features (round face, small nose, small eyes, olive skin, …) or other races’ features.
There are good men and women in China, not every Chinese men are creeps and not every Chinese women are psychos, I have friends, both men and women who are dating with or married to Chinese and are perfectly happy together.
Foreign men with Chinese women don’t live a nightmare, unlike some beliefs they are not required to buy expensive gifts, a car or an apartment, and no Chinese women don’t date foreign men for a passport, I know countless examples of perfectly happy and married couples where the woman never asked for the Western citizenship.
Foreign women with Chinese men can be perfectly happy too, I introduced a Chinese male friend to an American female friend and they are now married, unlike some beliefs he doesn’t treat her like she belongs to him, but like a human being, and he has no problem satisfying her with his manhood. They are perfectly happy and plan to have a child now.
What I mean is, White people, both women and men, dating outside their race don’t do it because they are losers who can’t get anyone back home, they don’t do it because of yellow fever or black fever or else, they do it because they found the right person here and this person happens to not be White.
Tom Li and Rdm in these comments are the perfect example of why we don’t see many Asian Man/Non-Asian Woman couples. Their comments smell hate, fear and some contradictory belief of the Asian Male superiority.
“Asian men must take women from other men!” and so on.
This is not about Asians VS the rest of the world. No one needs to prove some sort of racial superiority. We are all humans after all.
Get some confidence, some alpha-ness and show the chicks who’s the boss, that’s how you will get non-Asian women.
^
If my comment smell hate, fear, “some contradictory belief of the Asian male superiority”, highlight any comments of mine above and enlighten me.
Let’s say you’re proud of being your own goddamn whatever race. Austrian, Norwegian, etc etc etc, is it wrong to assume that you have some form of “Contradictory” sense of superiority?
Let’s say I’m proud of being ethnically “Chinese”, is it some contradictory form of male superiority?
Let me clarify here, “Pride” and “Arrogance” have different meanings. Just because I’m being proud of “Chinese man” or “Asian man” doesn’t mean that I hold ample amount of grudges against western men.
Let me put it this way. A commenter named “Manny” serves as an occasional troll here in Jocelyn blog. So I exposed his dubious intention of rooting for Asian men manhood.
———————-
“This is not about Asians VS the rest of the world. No one needs to prove some sort of racial superiority. We are all humans after all.”
IF this kind of attitude is prevalent throughout the whole world, I’m glad I’ve found you. But unfortunately, there are people who still hold some kind of “contradictory” racial superiority, I must say. You can avoid them, you can deny the fact. But in reality, they are there.
So sorry to burst your bubbles though.
Wonder why these losers feel that way? Read this Website here: http://www.kulturemedia.org/page-about-us.php
This is just one example of years (200+) of brainwashing by the White Hollywood. Until images change with more fair portrays of people just as people, this will continue to happen.
This is also why soft power is so important. Hollywood is white male’s nuclear bomb against all other men worldwide.