Why Aren’t We Talking More About The Rarity of AMWF?

(Screenshot from http://theyreallsobeautiful.com/)

Last month, commentator Eugene Tsui posed this fascinating question in a post on They’re All So Beautiful (the companion website to the documentary Seeking Asian Female):

I don’t see the question posed, of why there are so few Chinese men, with “white” women? This is left out?

What do the Chinese women have to say about that? And what do “white” men, who are married to Chinese women, have to say about that? I don’t hear their opinions about Chinese men with white women?

Of course, when he says “This is left out?” he’s referring to the fact that the documentary — and its companion website — don’t really address the disparity he mentions. But I think that could easily apply to most situations when people discuss yellow fever.

Usually, we only look at one side of the equation — the preponderance of couples of Western men and Asian women, and the Asian fetish that may drive some of these men to seek Asian women as partners. But yet, the fact that you don’t see many couples of Western women and Asian men is somehow related to this whole discussion. Because after all, if it was just as easy for Asian men and Western women to get together as it is for Asian women and Western men, then I never would have wrote about the rarity of AMWF relationships in China.

So Eugene is totally right — why aren’t we talking about this more?

The answer to that is probably something as simple as this — because AMWF couples are still in the minority. Or it could be that we’re just too busy/distracted with the whole Asian fetish phenomenon on the other side.

But either way, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t stop asking why — and demanding more answers.

What do you think?

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59 Replies to “Why Aren’t We Talking More About The Rarity of AMWF?”

  1. I feel like culturally we have been exposed to the Asian female beauty much more than to the male one. This caused a gap between how Asian women and men are perceived by Western people. As an Italian lady in a relationship with a Chinese guy from Hong Kong, I must admit that before going to China and meeting my current bf, I never thought about dating an Asian guy in my life. While growing up in Italy and travelling around the Western world, I never found Asian features particularly attractive in men, while I always admired a beautiful Asian lady.

    Then obviously living in China completely changed my mind and my perception of Asian features and made me fall in love with a lovely Chinese guy!

  2. beacuse all people on here are talking too much and do it to less.
    there could be some humilating moments for Both AM and WF once they are walking in public. same question should go for why WM and BF realtionships are so rare. haha people have little guts today but BIG MOUTH. is that correct Anonymous ? where the hell are u now? hahahaha…

  3. I believe the rarity of AMWF couples is talked about, a lot, actually at least on the internet/blogosphere. Perhaps not on that particular site, but on sites such as this and certainly on blogs/forums where young Asian men converse.

    “And what do “white” men, who are married to Chinese women, have to say about that? I don’t hear their opinions about Chinese men with white women?”

    Ooooh, on this particular issue, anyone “truly”interested should check out China Expat forums, and form your own opinion about the how the generic “white man married to a Chinese woman” feels about the reverse coupling. Not pretty. Some of these men don’t particularly respect Chinese women either. Truly a “WTF” moment for me.

    Above poster has it right when he speaks of action rather than (more)words is what’s needed to change the situation.

    Since apparently its globally the norm for the man to make the first move, utimately, its still up to Asian guys to step up and do the asking, if the number of AMWF couples is to increase.

    Its a matter of how much rejection he is willing to take and how much ignorance he is willing to put up with.

  4. Upon further reflection, I take back a bit what I said before.

    Outside of blogs/forums specifically dealing with AMWF issues like this one, or blogs/forums where Asian men post, the rarity of AMWF relationships isn’t really talked about in any meaningful or constructive way that I’m aware of.

    The general feeling among Asian-American men is that the white majority (here in the U.S.) and also Asian-American women couldn’t care less since they aren’t the ones being shortchanged.

    Perhaps that is also true for Chinese women over there.

    Regarding (white) Western men, I suspect they probably don’t really care about Western women’s dating woes in Asia.

    Ha! From what I’ve seen, a good percentage of Western men revel in it. Which is why, I think its absolutely stupid on the part of those Western women who join in on the Asian men bashing that male expats tend to do. Why empower them further at your own expense?

  5. The person who made the They’re All Beautiful documentary should also make an AMWF documentary, don’t know why they’re not doing that…

  6. I would guess the reason more isn’t being discussed is perhaps lack of popularity or something of the kind. On some dating websites, I actually see some Asian men post that they want to meet an Asian lady only, and no one else. Some ex-friends I have who used to also like Asian cultures have moved on and are grateful they have moved on from liking and caring about the Asian culture. (Wish they didn’t have to tell me that I’ll move on too-I won’t, and can’t imagine myself that I will. European/American culture holds no appeal at all for me.)

    Due to disappearing acts and lack of interest from Asian side, I guess I have given up on dating or finding my Asian prince to be with. I won’t be dating Europeans/Americans, just won’t be dating anyone at all. Period.

  7. Filmmakers always want to go with something popular. I’ve said before that asian communities should have our own movie markets like the latinos and African Americans. Our population is just too small. We don’t have to rely on Hollywood. As you can see, we have a few famous Chinese movie directors in Hollywood already so we can do it.. All we need is having more and more asians in America.

    Sveta, Don’t give up! Your destiny is not here yet.


  8. I think the issue has been talked about a lot. Maybe it is not talked enough in Asia except the expat circle.
    I think the first and 1.5 generation immigrants within a white majority will date inside their own race far more frequently. Within second generation (or after) Asian Americans, this topic has been discussed a lot. In academic sphere, you can find studies done on the topic.

    AM/WF is not the poster couple for relationships. But you also commonly see images showing a diverse group of people in places like schools where only a very small minority of black or asian presence. What does that tell you about what should be and shouldn’t be on the table?

  9. While AMWF is still rare, I must point out the gap between AMWF and WMAF is shrinking among young generation. I don’t have statistics, just personal experience.
    I also came across the question about why all of sudden the younger Asians are much taller, and people wonder what have changed.
    I think people start to notice the quality of Asian men.

  10. Allen: Wait, what?

    Pretty much any blog led by PoC/WoC that focuses on race and society discusses it, and discusses it quite constructively. Racialicious is my favorite, but YMMV.

    IMO, the real question should be: why does white privilege allow discussion of White Men/Asian Women in the media and in white-dominated spaces, but not vice-versa?

  11. @forest,
    True that the gap is closing but at least here in Shanghai I have seen in total 3 AMWF couples . Not everyday or every month…I mean, in total. But I see WMAF couples everyday.
    So maybe the gap is closing more for these couples in Western countries.
    I also think that “yellow fever” is a “dangerous” term. Look at the previous post, if someone says I like Chinese women then he has yellow fever but if someone says I wouldn’t date a Chinese person then he or she is a racist.
    Maybe the point here is that people love to call names.

  12. “Pretty much any blog led by PoC/WoC that focuses on race and society discusses it, and discusses it quite constructively. Racialicious is my favorite, but YMMV.”

    I stand corrected. Will check them out. Thanks.

    I would love to read the perspectives of those who aren’t Asian men, since I am one, I kinda already know how I feel about the subject.

  13. It’s because no one likes to talk about the negatives. In order for one to prefer something they would in most cases have to reject something else. In the same way many interracial relationships are praised because of the assumption they are born of equality and openness when in fact they are based on racial privilege and exclusivity.

  14. That isn’t to say interracial unions aren’t beautiful, because they certainly can be. It’s when you have people claiming to be beacon the of racial peace and unity because they are married to someone of a different race yet justifying prejudices and biases against other races or their own. And yes that does translate directly to, among other things, our view of what we find beautiful.

  15. I agree with the view that the news and info. about WM/AF are such a rarity even in my circle of friends, and no one really knows why. I am dating an ABC girl and I know some of my fellow White boys who have Asian girlfriends, but I do not know of any WM/AF couples. This is such an interesting disparate phenomenon. Many people have offered theories to account for such a disparity but none have demonstrated any clear and conclusive evidence to state why. I guess one day someone will find the answer. Do any of you out there know why?

    Did any of you out there see the PBS documentary film “Seeking Asian Females?”

    If not, go to this link and see it: http://video.pbs.org/video/2365001610. In the movie, the WM was 60 plus and the Chinese girl was barley 30.

    I saw it and I loved it. Knowing that an old, fat, hair-thinning poor White American man can get himself such a young and pretty Chinese girl gives me great comfort and hope that one day when I become old, bald and fat that I can still have to ability to attract for myself one of those pretty Chinese goddesses. I hope that you Western men out there who saw this film should take note and not give up hope of finding true love in China. After all, if an old, fat and poor White man can succeed with a young and pretty Chinese girl, why cannot you all not?

  16. Hi Jocelyn. Love how you ask the edgy questions! Just wanted to point out for those that may not know that the fabulous Susan Blumberg-Kason’s (http://www.susanbkason.com/) memoir, Good Chinese Wife, will be out soon, and this will really help add to the AMWF conversation. (And I hope when mine comes out, it will help, too, and add a positive story to the mix as well!) And then the biggest question is: When are YOU going to publish your memoir on this topic?? Can’t wait for both Susan’s and yours. In the meantime, best to all!


  17. Is everyone here writing memoirs about their Chinese husbands?…As soon as all those memoirs come out to the market a new “fever” will appear, with stereotypes for all the couples in that situation. I look forward to see which words will be used to describe WMAF…

  18. My own experience of dating white women: Only racist right wing women are more likely to date me. White women who like black guys seems never interested in me. However, white women with most racist attitude against blacks are more likely dating me. I do not know why. Most my white women relationship are those of conservative type with right wing attitude.
    I can not explain. But only one white conservative lady told me that Asian guys have the most desirable social value than any other ethnic groups.

  19. BTW, liberal white women are majority. Conservative white women are minority. So you guys are looking at wrong place.

  20. Hello! I’m Chinese-American and my wife is Irish-Italian and it’s definitely something that we notice; to the point that we talk about it every time we see another couple like us.

    I think that it’s slowly becoming more prevalent but it’s still in the distinct minority. Since I have a number of Asian male friends, I think that several – although not all – self-sabotage for one reason or another.

    Here’s my wife and me for those of you that are interested:


  21. @Allen,
    Because people use it for every kind of couple when one of them is Asian. An because if you are not part of the couple you can’t know about them, if you are an outsider you actually don’t know about the couple.
    Are Asians that only date Asians also under the yellow fever? In other posts people said people who date inside their
    Race only are racist..

  22. @Laura..I do not know whether Asians who date other Asians have yellow fever. By one estimate, fewer Asians marry Asians of another ethnicity than they marry whites, at least for AW/WM couples. Most Asians marry other Asians of the same ethnicity. Chinese marry Chinese, Koreans marry Koreans, etc. I would say white people in America marrying other white people from the US or elsewhere is more white fever than Chinese marrying Chinese is yellow fever. Why? Chinese is a culutre. A number of marriages between whites in America, such as the one between a white male from Alabama and a white female from Orange County, CA or Seattle, WA have nothing in common other than skin color and could be termed white fever…ie., will marry anyone based on right skin color.

  23. @David,
    Thanks for the insights, actually it was a retoric question but I appreciate the insights !
    I am just trying to explain that an outsider, a person who is not part of the couple, can’t have a clue whether if there is yellow fever or not.
    Even in the movie that Jocelyn shared in Facebook, they talk about yellow fever and the guy ends like the bad guy who has yellow fever and wants an Asian wife badly. But when the reporter asked the girl if she married him to get a greencard / visa to US, she confirmed.
    But as the movie goes you can see that they learn from each other after many fights, and they show respect and they appreciate each other.

    So yellow fever or not, only the couple knows, the rest are not part of it.

  24. Allen has the right of it. AF don’t care or find it an uncomfortable reflection on their outmarriage while most WM gloat about it when they bother to notice. WF also don’t care yet because they don’t lack for men being “stolen” by the insignificant number of WMAF relationships. The topic is actually discussed ad nauseum on AA boards that it’s become a banned topic!

    It’s similar with the lack of WMBF relationships. No one talks about it much, except BF in passing to reflect on whether they should continue to be loyal to their race. Reading white nationalist sites finds a lot of WM anger against BMWF couplings.

    As to be expected, the male jealously guards access to females of his race.

  25. @Allen…I still think Ms. Russell married his brother for only one reason…he was close enough to being white. She probably did not find any other suitable white male. Knew someone from Tennessee from back in 1983 who was exactly this way. Thought whites marrying Asians was unnatural and she said this out loud inside the classroom at Purdue University. However, she was dating someone of Syrian and Lebanese origin and she had nothing in common with him other than the fact that he looked pretty white…as white as her…and that made it very natural. Now would Ms. Russell think this way? Probably. Would she have married a guy from Japan? I doubt whether she would have even touched him with a ten foot pole.

  26. To make the long story short, some white women will wear a burkah and cover their bodies and even faces before they date or marry a non-white person. Ms. Russell is an example of this.

  27. Asian men are the least manly of all men. They have the highest estrogen level, which makes them look like women. The high estrogen level makes asian women look beautiful.
    That’s why so many asian men struggle when dating other women, because they feel nervous and have an inferiority complex. A lot of them see themselves as less manly, most of them are pretty shy too.

    Asian features of men don’t look good. It looks good on women.

  28. ^C’mon. You could at least come right out and admit you’re a white dude.

    On the miniscule chance that you are indeed an Asian women, how unattractive are your male relatives?

    @Laura. Do you see where the animosity of AMs towards WM/AF couples is coming from? It pretty much baited from Asian men.

  29. @Allen,
    Yes but I am a bit lost cause I didn’t say the contrary…On the other side talking about femenine attributes, maybe is because we were taught those are femenine attributes.

    We are taught that men have to be like a “macho” but real men are not “macho men” are those who are there with you, who are not afraid of showing their feelings and who are 100% themselves.

    Some examples:
    – I know gay men who attract many women, and yes they have what is called “femenine” attributes. Because they are like a good friend and not like a macho man.

    – From women’s side…Who says you have to be small, very thin and have no curves to be femenine? I know girls who say that if you don’t wear make up you are not femenine, to give you an example, I never ever wear make up and my colleagues didn’t realize. I don’t think a person is femenine thanks to clothes / make up / …is an attitude and you can wear all the “femenine” named things you want but if you are not femenine yourself the look is weird.

    There is a difference between femenine & girly, and between masculine & macho men.

    To be honest, I don’t think any of my Chinese male friends consider femenine / male attributes, is not something they have in mind. When they describe someone they point facts and they don’t consider one is better than the other one. They just point facts. Anyway I will ask them 🙂

  30. lol, just a word of caution to the guys, probably not a good idea to attack random “Allie Lu’s” on the internet. I seriously doubt that’s the poster’s real name.

    I’m fairly new to this blog, at least as a regular reader, so I don’t know the post history of this “Allie Lu” or most of the posters in general.

    But seriously, who remains anonymous on a blog, but writes out their FULL name to indicate gender and ethnicity just to insult half the blog audience.

    Perhaps the biggest downside for me as far a posting on a blog like this (as opposed to say, an AA men’s blog/forum, or a forum with a large male audience) is that I feel its necessary to keep my comments clean and civil in tone and language, which is more than what the trolls deserve.

    No issues with Laura at all. I understand that she likely has many personal friends who are WMs or Chinese females in mixed relationships and are genuinely good people.

  31. Q. Why aren’t we talking more about AMWF?

    The article of “Honestly I think Asian fever thing is Silly.”

    wrote a guy who divorced twice and married three times with non-Asian women. I’d ask “Would you give me a freaking break? Will you?”

    And that documentary of 60 year old dude marrying 30 somewhat young Chinese lady? In the author’s definition of “Loser”, he admitted he might be a loser in White society. Of course we all know he’s a loser. In his comment, he said he’s being practical and methodical to find a young Chinese girl online. So I’d ask if that Chinese girl is an overachieving, high-earning Asian female (M.D, Ph.D) who couldn’t get an Asian male of the same caliber because Asian male wants a girlfriend of lower status according to the author’s statement?

    So I’d ask “Is that Bull Crap?”

    What we don’t see the other side of the coin is she might be a loser in Chinese society too, who couldn’t get a decent young Chinese man of her age? Both losers are playing in a system of “How I could get a green card instantly?” They fought, they cried, and finally they understand each other. Am I going to watch that cheesy, tacky documentary?

    First of all, is it really worth talking about AMWF in the first place? if it is really worth it, I’m gonna jump in.

    Let’s get started with this generation trend. This generation, especially white girls (More and More), become dumber and dumber, not because of their own fault, but because of continual pampering and self-righteous attitude towards everything. They become complacent. They don’t learn. They become Jersey shore girl. They are not achieving. Especially in US.

    Falling for any Justin Bieber music for no apparent reason. Even getting to touch his pale skin is good enough to be a girl. Now look at those blonde girls tweeting to free Boston muss murderer? Look at how pretty she is?

    and read this dumbo 1st tweet, how blonde she is?

    And they are not mourning for an innocent Chinese girl who was a victim of bombing, they are requesting to free the bomber.

    And we all know Paris Hilton who’s been sleeping around with different guys in her own hotels, ugh?
    And turn to listen to Taylor Swift songs. Her promiscuous relationships have been a fodder for her melodramatic songs over and over again.

    And we ask why don’t we see Asian Male with Western Females in this generation? From the Asian male point of view, it’s less risky, and a lot more easier to communicate and share the thought, feeling with a fellow Asian women. You’ve gotta choose a White woman wisely. Otherwise, you’ll end up being a fodder for Taylor Swift for sure. Or maybe Memoir.

    Came across a white girl in Ivy League. Don’t know how she’s got here. Maybe with a sub-par admission to those Caucasians while setting a quota for all Asians in Ivy Leagues. She has no idea about the basic science facts.

    Did a TA for undergrads. Personally encountered a lot of dumb White girls in a class.

    So to repeat the 1st tweet of that lovely blonde white girl;

    “I cannot stress this enough. There’re (she used “‘s”, you see?) so many dumbo in this AMWF situation, we live in a country where you’ll find a dumb white girl until they’re proven themselves.”

    And we left with the question of “Why aren’t we talking more about AMWF?”

  32. Many studies show Asian men to have the highest levels of testosterone (both free and total and in some studies, the highest absolute DHT or dehydrotestosterone levels) with African American men second and white men the least. Asian men also tend to have very low estrogen levels.


    “the levels of total and bioavailable testosterone were highest in Asian-Americans, intermediate in African-Americans, and lowest in whites.”

    see also here


    This study however, found no differences.


  33. @forest…as I said some white women will wear a burkah and cover their bodies and even faces before they date or marry a non-white person, especially an Asian or Asian-American. Ms. Russell is an example of this.

  34. “Came across a white girl in Ivy League. Don’t know how she’s got here. Maybe with a sub-par admission to those Caucasians while setting a quota for all Asians in Ivy Leagues. She has no idea about the basic science facts. ”

    If SCOTUS overturns Affirmative Action will the Asian Americans sue over this?

  35. I don’t know how you guys define “Asian men”, but in my opinion, “Asian men” usually refers to east Asian or southeast Asian. Those Asian who were birth and raised in western countries are “partial” Asian already. They action have no different to white people basically.

    So when it comes to Asian man and Western girl relationship, I think the biggest problem is the culture difference. Because it really matter for most of the Asian guys, especially for those international students in western countries. And also, language is another barrier. I feel like when western girls pick their boyfriend, they value sense of humor. But usually for most of the Asian who study English as a second language, they usually focus on how to use English to study or to live in daily life, so of course many of them dont really “have” a sense of humor, and western girl usually dont like a guy like that.

  36. @David,

    I’m not sure if AA will sue over affirmative action. Affirmative action is for those weakling, minority, oppressed according to what those Caucasian preach. But they don’t do what they preach.

    If Affirmative action is applied to AA, we’ll be overwhelming in every area of the field. Touching the rim by basketball from Jeremy lin counts as 2. Basket count as 3, while traditional 3 pointer will count as 4. Linsanity will be eternal.

  37. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/delaware-teen-usa-pleads-guilty-underage-alcohol-possession-article-1.1325626

    So I’d ask “My dear Caucasian girls, would you still rather be in that lovely coconut scented wiggling hair of Boston bomber?” Or

    Even if the truth is IN YOUR FACE, your faith, your belief is unequivocal even if the bomber wrote “F*** America!”?

    And this Delaware Miss teen

    So what is happening with this younger generation of White girls?

  38. If you have more asian men hitting on western women, they will talk about it all the time. We’re not hitting on western women so we have nothing to talk about.

  39. @Reo – Don’t think a few bad apples representing the whole generation. Some of them are holding up moral values. My experience anyway.

  40. @forest,

    Of course. This is where those western expat women bash on all Asian men after coming across one bad apple.

  41. The answer is that (especially with liberals) is that people don’t want to let the elephant out of the room (which is that their preferences are racist). Talking about it makes people uncomfortable because it will shed light on their own racism.

  42. @Yep…I have heard people professing to be liberals talk the same way. “I am not a racist, I voted for Obama, but wont date a non-white guy.” I ran into some white women with those views in liberal California around Los Angeles and Orange Counties. But, at least unlike people who profess to be conservatives none of them say that asian-white coupling is “unnatural”.

  43. Historically in 18th – mid 20th century it was more common for Chinese men to marry white women than vice versa. Many Hong Kong/Cantonese men migrated to Costa rico, Australia, U.S, and Britrain and married White girls but especially Costa Rico where local men married White females.

  44. This is all strange, since I believe the recent census showed that White Females in America marry Korean Males at a higher rate than any other non-white demographic. Sure, you see more Black Men with White Women as an example, since there’s a lot more of them.

    This is despite the media showcasing not only more WMAF than AMAF couples, but even more black male/asian female couples than asian male/asian female couples. So it’s clear that Asian Men are incredibly underrepresented in the media, and that is having a huge effect.

    As for Asian culture and how it impacts their intermarriage rates, it’s clear that there’s a huge gap of first generation Asian Men out-marrying, versus second generation. That is probably an even bigger reason than Hollywood.

  45. Since AMWF couples are rare, then talks will also be rare.
    If the talks were not so rare, then AMWF couples also will not be rare.
    These people happened to meet at the right time at the right place. Their meetings were not influenced by propaganda and the synchronicity of such events is not so simple because there are too many conditions at stake.
    But when such pairings happen, we see people share their experience, intelligence, knowledge on many things including cultures and foreign languages.
    This is in contrast with other kinds of pairing where the perception of the white man as an alpha male can be the sole necessary and sufficient condition.

  46. I’m a Chinese-American guy (1.5 generation) married for 5 years to a beautiful white woman. We met in college and are both quite successful. There are lots of white women who love the stability and quiet confidence that Asian men can provide. You just need to ask the woman out first. Asians tend to date more in their own social circles, among their Asian friends. Our marriage is rock solid and has become even stronger with time.

    I think fundamentally AMWF relationships and their children are very culturally different from WMAF relationships and their children. To lump the kids all together as Eurasians or hapas is missing the point on the vast differences in their parents’ meeting and the role white male privilege has in the relationship. It’s not a surprise to me that many white supremacists, anti-feminists and White Nationalists males end up marrying Asian women. The AMWF counterpart is far more progressive and balanced.

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