Four Lame Reasons Why Western Women Won’t Date Chinese Men

Godfrey Gao
“You won’t date me because of WHAT? That’s lame.” (image of Godfrey Gao from his Flickr)

People just say the darndest things about dating Chinese men. Over the years, I’ve listened to a lot of reasons why Western women give the sons of Han a pass on dating — and sometimes, they’re the kind of reasons that make you go “Hmmmm” (and then think rather unprintable thoughts about the person who said them).

So here are four of the lamest reasons I’ve ever heard as to why Western women won’t date Chinese men.

Lame Reason #1: Effeminate

Whenever I hear people say this about Chinese men, they point to the most utterly superficial reasons — such as having “manbags”, or carrying women’s purses, or even height/body sizes. And they usually just back it up with anecdotes from expats/Westerners, or their own biased perceptions (so “scientific,” isn’t it?).

But in fact, this is nothing more than an insidious stereotype, which derives much of its power from the unflattering images of Asian men in Hollywood and the mainstream media.

Bottom line, it’s an incredibly lame reason to NOT date Chinese men.

Lame Reason #2: Penis size

First of all, this is a stereotype about Asian men that has yet to be proven by any cold, hard scientific evidence. And even if it were true, it means you value a guy’s alleged package size over his actual personality. Either way, you’d be exceedingly lame in my book for using this as an excuse to pass on Chinese men.

(See also this hilarious rant on the stereotype surrounding penis size and Asian men.)

Lame Reason #3: Too shy

I once read this in an article about the dating scene for foreign women in Beijing:

“Most Chinese guys are really shy,” Patterson said. “They work really long hours and don’t come out to bars and parties, which is where you usually meet people.”

I’m pretty certain, then, that some women out there actually use this as a reason/excuse why they don’t date Chinese men.

But Chinese men aren’t necessarily shy, it’s just a stereotype.

I get that some women out there think a “real guy” should just directly ask her out, and might label a Chinese guy “too shy” if he can’t do the same. But in fact, a lot of times Chinese men are just operating according to different “rules” for dating. They might approach us a little more indirectly, where they show their interest gradually instead of straight out just asking us on a date. It’s not a shy thing, it’s a “dating is a little different in their culture” thing.

Some women might also complain, as one foreign woman did in an op-ed piece, about a “lack of effort” on the part of Chinese men. But this perspective totally ignores the huge barriers that stand between a Chinese guy actually asking out a Western woman (see my reasons why Western women should consider pursuing Chinese men).

So when you think about it, it’s kind of a lame reason.

Lame Reason #4: Not attractive

When I first came to China, I was stunned by the people who just flat-out declared that Chinese men aren’t attractive. Seriously?

I get that people have their own preferences. But there’s something truly lame — and disturbing, for that matter — when someone dismisses an entire group of people as ugly. If you truly think there can never be attractive Chinese men out there, then apparently you’re either blind or blinded by your own biases. This is by far the lamest reason out there to not date Chinese men.

What do you think? What other lame reasons have you heard?

147 Replies to “Four Lame Reasons Why Western Women Won’t Date Chinese Men”

  1. The “Chinese (Asian) Men Are Effeminate” trope really gets up my grill. I wrote an entire post on it:

    And yeah, it got a few people mad as I expected, because I pointed out that the majority of this derision in Taiwan wasn’t coming from foreign/expat women, but from foreign/expat men (who can be OK – I certainly do try to see them as individuals – but a lot of them are really…eh…well, let’s just leave it at “many of them are just fine but there are some bad ones who ruin it for everyone”. I married a fellow American while abroad so obviously I’m not dismissing them as one group either). I can’t speak for China – I have heard foreign women dismiss Chinese men there, though – but in Taiwan the single foreign women, while we may not be into umbrella-carrying and skinny jeans on men, are totally interested in them and don’t want to dismiss them as a group. (And the no-skinny-man-jeans thing is a personal preference).

    I do think that a lot of women dismiss Chinese and Taiwanese men as “shy” when they would do better to look at it as “indirect”, and not accustomed to or interested in the mores of dating we’re used to in the West. I do feel a valid issue a foreign woman might have with an individual Asian man is more culture shock related – i.e. you spend more time with your mother than you do with me/you work insane hours and put your job before your relationship/your attitudes about gender roles are sexist/you expect me to be more 溫柔 but I’m just not – but those reasons should be between individuals and judged on an individual basis, not a reason to dismiss an entire group. We Western women generally expect to be asked out (well, I don’t, but plenty do) and when the Asian guy who likes them does not do so, it is all too easy to fall back on “too shy!”

    As for “unattractive”, I will admit that in my year in Guizhou I did not meet many men I deemed attractive…I can’t remember a single one, but I figure there must have been some cute guys I noticed at the time and have forgotten in the decade since. But…you know…that wasn’t racial. It was cultural: I was culture shocking quite severely, almost nobody in my town spoke English, the vast majority of men smoked, and I wasn’t terribly fond of the common styles of dress (trainers and windbreaker suit, or ill-fitting dress pants with mismatched jacket, sweater vest, cheap button-down shirt, white athletic socks, weirdly parted hair). My students – the ones who spoke some English at all – said a lot of really sexist things (they could not believe, for instance, that I thought it was OK for a woman to be smarter than her boyfriend/husband and not hide it).

    But – but but but! – just because the men in Zunyi, Guizhou, weren’t to my liking was more of a culture shock issue, and I’d probably feel the same way about the small and more conservative selection of men in a small American town (I’m a New York liberal feminist). It was absolutely not a reason to dismiss all Asian men. If I’d lived in Beijing, Shanghai or really any larger city I daresay my experience would have been very different. I can certainly say that in Taipei, if I were not married, I’d find plenty of men appealing. I mean, Taiwanese and Chinese culture are not the same, but from an ethnic perspective.

    One quick thing – you may reconsider using the term “sons of Han”. Not all Chinese are Han, and I know a lot of Hakka (among other Chinese minorities) who might be offended. When I lived in Guizhou I knew a lot of Miao people who wouldn’t have taken kindly to that phrase, plus there’s Tibet and Xinjiang (if you count them as Chinese – I don’t, and hope for their eventual autonomy). Certainly any Taiwanese aborigine would be bothered by it, too!

    1. Hi Jenna, I assume you like to be upfront. So I just want to say you are just too political! But then again you said you are feminist, right! So there is no surprise!

      Nothing personal but I must say most people will not aggree with you on those political issues including minority people.

      I read some of the things you said I don’t think you know very much about Chinese history!

      Chinese is just the name for all the people living in China including but not limit to Han Chinese. (CHINA HAVE 56 ETHNIC GROUPS AT LEAST)

      And the term Han actually means people who belong and practice the Han culture. The Hakka group and other groups are belong to Han because they all practice Han culture (The practices are little different depend on when Han people live in China)

      In fact, Hakka and many groups of Han people who live in Southern China today were migrants from other parts of China (This is because of war and other reasons in ancient China).

      And they have mix with the local people who were not Han before and after sometimes through enculturation and assimilation the locals became Han themselves!!!

      With all due respect, I don’t think you should write things you don’t know much about! Its just not right!!!

  2. More importantly, why are Asian men always wailing about why white women won’t date them?

    I have NEVER seen an article on any Asian site wailing about why Black women won’t date them.

    Maybe if Asian men weren’t so obsessed with dating white women they would be happier.

    1. Asia men think black women are very aggressive and too big LOL … is true, remember Asian culture adores pale skin the paler the better and Japans people also loves white skin I believe is related with social class. There must a number of Asian who do not care about it but most do care, sorry 🙁 I think Mongolians do not care.

  3. Lame reasons and just stereotypes, with all those millions of men in China you can find and date whoever you want according to your preferences. My Han boyfriend happens to be 6’4 tall and I’m the shy one, what also breaks the stereotype of Mexican girls being everything but shy.

  4. I see that stereotypes about Chinese men are rather similar as those about Korean men. I was surprised how many stereotypes are out there once I started looking around the web.

    The ones off the top of my head would be that they have to blindly obey their parents, they say “I love you” too easily without really meaning it, they don’t take relationships with western women seriously, etc.

    As you put it so well – lame!

  5. For the most part I agree, thought I have a contribution to make about penis size – although it is unfair to dismiss a ‘race’ of people because of a myth/rumour/truism about penis size, I do think that women (and men) have a right to be fussy about something that’s going to be inside of them! I don’t like the implication that it is shallow to care about penis size.. we all have have our different ideas of what is ‘normal’, and this doesn’t mean that anything bigger/smaller than that size range is ABnormal as such, but that it might make some of us feel uncomfortable to have inside our vaginas/anuses. It’s not about something that could be defined as shallow i.e. aesthetics or sexual pleasure, it’s about feeling comfortable during sex. Now that isn’t to say that we shouldn’t be open minded, but I do think we’re allowed to have our preferences. But yes, ‘I won’t date a Chinese guy because Chinese guys have small penises’ is lame indeed.

  6. What if a man doesn’t date you because you have huge thigh,small breasts and big butt? We can live with small breasted women ,but we can not live with women who have bad personalities. I still think personality is #1 on my list. You people can’t brainwash me ! Don’t listen to those people out there regarding penis size. If a woman only focus on penis size, she must be a NYMPHOMANIAC ( sex addict), a porn star,stripper or a person with very low IQ. I don’t see how you can build a wonderful relationship with such a woman.

  7. another topic i have heard other foreign girls complain about is control. My darling Fiance has been accused of trying to “control” me: When we started dating i wanted to prove that i wasn’t just the wild girl i know he had seen, but i wanted to show i was also “marriage material” so to speak, so i curbed some of my more crazy habits e.g i quit smoking, quit binge drinking, and got home on social nights no later than 10.30. All my friends took this in a way that seemed so unfair no matter how much i insisted it was my idea, they blamed it on his apparent “conservative and strict chinese upbringing.” I think some people are just going to see something negative no matter what you say to them.

  8. All of the stereotypes have truth in them. It has a lot to do what the culture values. In Chinese society, effeminate is not all bad. Women might like certain effeminate men as more caring and sensitive to their needs. What I am trying to say is Chinese men there don’t have to care about their manhood the same way or under the same pressure.
    I think Chinese men could use some help to address these issues in inter-cultural dating.
    For example, an argument happens when a Chinese guy is insulted. He could resort to the old Chinese wisdom, “A wise man won’t rush into foolishness for his own defeat (好汉不吃眼前亏)”. An southerner in American south will probably give you a blood nose for sure. Who is a real “man”? Chinese guys could be a real sissy in the eye of a southern lady.
    If you think Chinese women don’t care about penis sizes, you are dead wrong. All women do. I personally heard some white girls say the penis size theories are true, and some others would dispute. If a woman likes you, penis size would likely be a secondary consideration. Don’t hear what people say, see what they do.
    Chinese guys need help to overcome these stereotypes, not only trying to put on defenses. I do see many Chinese girls being more socially conservative, not defined in ways such as restricting women’s contraception rights. . They need to be bolder (less shy) and challenge traditions to pursue happiness. You will see more dating between western women and Asian men.

  9. In all fairness, you don’t have to come home early or give up smoking (binge drinking maybe) just to prove you’re “marriage material”. I don’t smoke but I do occasionally go out and come home as late as 4am, and I’m married. It’s not a prerequisite and you have nothing to prove. That doesn’t mean he’s the bad guy, of course, your friends are wrong there, but no, there’s no set of rules that state you have to be someone you’re not just to prove your worthiness to wear a wedding ring.

    Also, while it’s crazy to be totally focused on penis size, I agree with some posters above that there is nothing wrong with considering it an issue between individuals (just don’t dismiss an entire race based on it!) – I mean that thing’s gonna be inside you, most likely, you have a right to like it’s general features and capabilities! Feeling that way doesn’t make you a slut, stripper or bad girl. It makes you normal.

  10. And anyone who tries to tell you you’re a “slut” or unworthy girl for caring about general penis features on the guy you’re dating is not someone you want to be dating!

  11. I’m with Jenna on the shyness. However, I think it has more to do with not having good English language skills — and not wanting to lose face because of it.

  12. I am not sure why there are such strong reactions about reality. People say stupid things all the time. To my knowledge, most western women won’t bother to seek out an Asian. But it does not mean they will never open to date one. A small percentage of western women bluntly believe all the stereotypes. It is certainly important for any Asian guy to know.
    It is that initial step more intimidating.

    I guess people always puzzled about the more prevalent parings of WMAF.

  13. I don’t think I should make any penis comments or something related to sex!! I will however comment on the other reasons. Talking about sex is my favorite subject and I’m afraid things might get out of hand. I have to control myself.

    effeminate huh? I think I have to inject myself with steroid now so my jawline will be like a piece of block. Too shy? asian people are just taught to be respectful when they were very young. Asking a woman out directly is like very inconsiderate in a way to asian people. Not attractive huh? Well, if you’re a woman you’re bigger ( big bone and around 170 to 200 lbs +). Of course, you want another giant! It has to do with culture too and people act different too. Look at black couples. sometimes, black men are smaller and their women are 2 times bigger than them. I mean sometimes…

    1. LOL! Bruce, very funny!!! Thank you!!!

      There are people just don’t understand respect and politeness but then again there is the culture factor!

      As for the effeminate issue. I don’t think thats the case. The fact is alot of Chinese parents teach their kids to be polite first (such as soft handshake and so on) But, these gestures are seen as effeminate in western countries!

      And also alot of western girls like guys to be aggressive in chasing after them. Then when the guy became aggressive, they then accuse him of been rough.

      It makes you wonder when a guy should be aggressive or softer!!!

      Many Chinese men are actually quite aggressive once you get to know them!!!

      But I do agree that Chinese men or Asian men should actively approach western woman more often!!!

      1. “And also alot of western girls like guys to be aggressive in chasing after them.”

        And in a place like Alabama or Mississippi if a white woman accuses an Asian guy of being too aggressive, you may get beat up by her male friends or brothers or worse, you may hang from a tree…not much has changed at least in parts of the south…try Jasper, Texas. On the other hand white guys from Alabama will happily come to Asia and chase Asian way street or better known to the world as white privilege.

        1. Yes David, its crazy that some people can kill other people for LIKING OR LOVING SOMEONE!!!!!!! ASOLUTELY CRAZY AND INSANITY!!!!!

  14. Great list, thanks Jocelyn for putting these things out there. I would have expected to see “I don’t want to be surrogate mother to a little emperor” and “He’s going to cheat” on this list as well.

  15. Funny post. While the topic of this blog is western women and chinese men, just to play devils advocate; and having seen some other posts by readers on here: I dont think this excluding groups for “lame” reasons is specific to western women. In fact I find women in GENERAL are FAR more accepting and open minded when it comes to dating and relationships as compared to men.

    I have now heard way more than 2-3 asian men declare that they would not date african/ dark skinned women for bla bla reason (all shallower than penis size or shyness btw, and some are downright racist). Check out Hey Ai. Honestly I support interracial love of all kinds, but that kind of race specific weird obsessive stuff makes me nauseous sometimes.

    For me interracial relationship means that if you find someone you are attracted to and compatible with, there is absolutely no reason why race should hinder that relationship. So relationship precedes the race. These kinds of “la.e” stereotypes emanate when race precedes relationships and I don’t want to be too judgemental but isnt that inevitable as the considerations (like race) are shallow ANYWAYS.

  16. Maybe its me but I like it when a guy carries a purse or a bag for me 😀 I think a lame reason I heard is they’re not hairy. To be honest, hairy guys make me feel uncomfortable and how can the cuddling or whatnot be comfortable when hair constantly pokes you in the cheek? I would also guess they don’t have western masculine appearance. Yes, penis is a big one though. (One time knew a Korean guy that was almost six foot tall but his arousal was small. Another time knew a Korean guy that was six feet tall and he had a normal arousal…)

  17. I like Priscilla’s piece – It represents the majority of western women. Last thing you need is to be alienated. As much as I appreciate someone speaks out against the stereotypes, I am not sure that is what Chinese men (in china) need.

    “Rumors abound, but I’m not sure if they are based on accurate research or expat women’s prejudices: Chinese men are too traditional, they give in to family pressure to marry a good Chinese girl, they are intimidated by expat women’s independence and socioeconomic status.”
    This part is still quite true unless proven otherwise. Relationship is a more practical matter in China. The idea of equality between partners can be very tricky.

    I get your point. Maybe some people are more opinionated too.

  18. I think the part about Chinese guys being shy is not true. It’s somewhat true however for Chinese American guys. If the media constantly makes fun of Asian guys as being geeks, nerds, wimps, or waiters and busboys who can only get jobs at Chinese restaurants, how can they possibly feel confident to ask girls out knowing what girls know from the media? It’s also untrue to assume Chinese guys lust western women. I just saw a Chinese dating show a few days ago where there were 24 female contestants and one of them was a fairly attractive blond (Russian I think). The blonde girl was passed up by 90% of the Chinese guys. She even let some of the handsome Chinese guys know that she was interested and still those Chinese guys would pass her up for Chinese women. I’ve heard some guys in China are not attracted to white women because they think white women have ghostly appearance or too pale or they have freckles and age badly.

  19. @Mytwocents,

    I would pick the blonde. What a bunch of idiots! Even a blondie wants you but you don’t want her. What a disgrace!

  20. You know something here that if Chinese men chase western women like Chinese women then they will have more chances. I heard that some chinese men pursue chinese women like there is no tomorrow. Follow those chinese women around like dog in heat. Any women will give in !

    Western women are attracted to men with some muscles. Do you know that I haven’t heard anybody here mention about that? Since you guys have no interest details on building some muscles, we will move to next subject. Do you know that some women will look down on a guy if he is not built? I talk about it because I know the problem but nobody wants to say it!!! I want to say!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m in my early 40’s and I still try to maintain my body. Change your body ( w/ hard rock body) and attitude , western women will come! Trust me I know what I’m talking about. ” you build, they will come” :).. Now you know why those women don’t find you attractive??

  21. Everytime I’m with an Asian guy in my own country my female friends comment ‘wow, he’s sexy for an Asian guy’. When I started dating my wonderful vietnamese boyfriend I really had to find out what they meant by it. Is it just a girls way of saying he’s ugly compared to western men or do themy really find him handsome? Turns out they just ‘didn’t expect an Asian guy could be that attractive’…

    Oh about the penissize. Someone sent me a world map once with the average penissize for every country. I’ll try to look it up for you when I have a laptop;)

  22. Actually I’ve never heard Western women use these lame excuses in real life. I’ve just read about people saying things like that. But then I grew up in a European country where I didn’t have the feeling that there was a lot of negativity towards Asians. I have to say though that some Western women I met in China didn’t consider dating locals while staying here. But I think this was due to a fear of cultural misunderstandings/culture shock rather than the lame excuses Jocelyn mentions. Most of the women I’m talking about only stayed a year and probably didn’t want to get into a serious relationship that would turn into a long-distance relationship soon after.

    I have to agree with Jenna that often this negativity comes from Western (business)men living in China of whom some don’t really like to mix with locals. And from Chinese women who would only date or are married to “Westerners” and think that Chinese guys are all bad (how can you put them all into one basket when there are so many of them?). Some were really (fake-)concerned about me dating a Chinese guy – and would ask “Is he treating you well?” as though he’s not supposed to be treating a woman well just because he’s Chinese. Actually I could ask them the same question but I don’t because I don’t think treating a woman well is connected specifically to being “Western” or “Chinese”.

    I have to dismiss the stereotype of Chinese men being too shy. Maybe they are if you the woman doesn’t speak Chinese and they don’t speak English. But I think more often than not Chinese men will show it if they like a you. Maybe they do so in a different way than people would do back at home, but then I think that often their ways of showing that they like you are pretty similar to back at home. It might be different in English speaking countries, but where I’m from you don’t directly ask a girl for a date either. If you’re serious about a girl after having met her initially you might send text messages, call her, treat her to coffee/drinks/dinner, and will probably try to be around her as often as you can, if you have common friends this might be even easier. If you think that the girl likes you too, you’ll eventually try holding her hands and/or kiss her. It seems to work in similar ways in China. This is not to say that there are no shy guys in China, but there are shy guys all around the world and China is no exception. My boyfriend can be shy too, and I might have never known he likes me if he didn’t bring up the courage to tell me so, but I don’t consider this trait being specific to Chinese men. After all I’ve met plenty of shy guys before, many of which weren’t Chinese. And I’ve met many not-at-all-shy Chinese guys. Of course, this is only my personal experience. I’m wondering if people mix up being quiet with being shy?

  23. I’m shy ,too :). Never under estimate a chinese man that he is effeminate. Yes, we do almost everything for our women. Most white men (friends) came to my house and looked at all my home projects and they couldn’t believe that I could do this complicated ,hard labor and huge projects. I don’t care if you’re a masculine man (asian, white , black etc) , you will feel chill running throught your spine .Yes, I don’t have much hair on my body but I can send hairy men running down the hill any day. Some men BS and talk big but they can’t deliver. You can look masculine and hairy and built but you’re lazy like hell. Tell me if any women would run away ? If you say it and deliver it ,then women will admire you and respect you . Some of these tracts ,women find very very attractive. That Chinese man may look or talk soft but he might be a beast inside him. I have a chinese friend here that he could out work western men anytime and any day. He could work 50 + hrs nonstop without sleep until the deadline was met. This guy is just too hardcore and those white workers are still shocked by how he works and admire him. He is not a sissy at all. He beated up a few white guys in the past because they gave him troubles and called him a “chicken chinese s…” . He told me that he was in rage so he sent 2 white guys in the hospital.

    1. Hey Bruce, I was attacked by Racist for no paricular reason for few times too. I know how you friend felt and I also HURT those Racist bad.

      But what surprise me was the white policemen, they watch me getting attack with a smile on their face and did nothing!

      But after I thrown these Racists to the ground then they were in shock, you should see the look on those policemen’s face. HA!

  24. “You know something here that if Chinese men chase western women like Chinese women then they will have more chances. I heard that some chinese men pursue chinese women like there is no tomorrow. Follow those chinese women around like dog in heat. Any women will give in !”

    Not exactly. There is such thing called social etiquette and psychology. But the actual relationship is about the same. So there is no reason not to understand such relationships as too different.
    If a western woman stays longer in Asia, she will probably become more acculturated to endorse the culture.

    In China, you still hear people praise their sons being obedient (他很老实 ta hen lao shi). That seems to fit certain stereotype quite well. But people there think nothing of it. The traditional alpha male type of role model from the west might not go well there. Bruce Lee is certainly an exception.
    Like ygr said, some western males think Chinese men negatively. But if you can drink tons of baiju and throw someone under the table, you are one of them.
    I don’t think language barrier is as big as people say. It obviously depends on where you live (more rural or urban).
    Judging from western beauty standards, you will find less Chinese men fit the profiles. But I know people change when certain features grow on them due to exposure. We probably all have preferences to begin with. Some people will refuse to give them up.

  25. Maybe I talk to people for a living and maybe I’m educated . That’s why you don’t see me say that all whites , all blacks , all hispanics (mexicans included) ,etc are bad. There are good people in every ethnic group. I have 2 god mothers who are white and 1 black god mother. I get along with everyone. When you say here that ” all chinese men are not good for dating” , do you sound educated or stupid? That means you all are stupid by listening to sterotypes. I’m a chinese man here. Am I worthy of your time?

  26. I think Chinese men should have soft and rough personalities .. and learn the long lost art. It’s called the “Art of Arguing”.

  27. I have to absolutely agree with ygr. I have heard some negative penis comments and also about incompatibility due to shyness etc. One person actually told me if I wanted to date asian guys I should look for someone more open to western ideas and gregarious (there were few such asian guys we knew)… even though I was interested in my boyfriend SPECIFICALLY and it wasnt like ANY asian guy would do. I guess people are scared of something taboo or new, so the rarer the pairing the more likely they are to find faults with why it might not “work”. And I stand by my point about dating based on race. Inclusion or exclusion from dating/relationships based on group/racial characteristics doesnt make sense because when it comes down to it, everyone is different.

  28. @Bruce

    My interest in white blond women is a learned taste. Growing up in China, I had never felt any attractiveness in white people. After exposed to western culture as young adult, my taste is changed, brain-washed, white-washed, adaptation, (whatever).

    Yes, media is about brain washing. Western verbal skill rules.

  29. I never thought about dating outside of Chinese circle before coming to US. It never occur to be as a possibility much the same way as some western women feel about Chinese while in China. I had similar stereotypes about them to a certain degree. Out of curiosity, I watched part of the new TV show from China featuring western women and see how they are portrayed to fit the Chinese views in a less demeaning way.
    I think more Chinese men today will endorse those images while debating about relationships not basing on material establishment.

  30. aiyangxifu,

    After you know that white blonde, do you treat her like any women? Same right? Of course, there are other things different but you treat her just like any other women.

    You are correct that he must accept your culture and you should accept who he is. There must be acceptance . Same thing for white /western women… Not any white/western women will do. These women have to accept these chinese men also.

    When I was single a long time ago, I used to like women with some muscles. I mean women who like fitness. Yup, when you hang out with men or women who are into similar things, you will find them attractive because you are around this kind of atmosphere. I do understand why western women don’t find chinese men attractive when they arrive in China. Alot of things, westerners have to adapt with time and later on unattractiveness will turn to attractiveness. I don’t think people dare to call me “effeminate”. They think they’re so macho and manly trying to compare with me instead they are bunch of sissies. Normally, guys have 1 or 2 hobbies but I have 4 to 5 hobbies going on simultaneously .I know you can never ever compare one person with another person in real life. Why do you guys think that I always say that you can talk to me about anything? You just can’t compare your ex husband or ex bf with your current bf or husband. Just like comparing with Chinese men and Western men. We live in a different world.. a different environment.. a different culture. For example, you were used to dating women with big butt and now you’re dating a woman with tiny butt. This small butt woman just exceed your expectation in all categories. Now, of course you will pick the one who will make you feel comfortible with . You mean a woman who always dates men who are big like a buffalo will never give a slimmer guy a chance? Of course , she will.

  31. Any Chinese man (or whatever man) can date a western woman if they really want to.

    But most of them either don’t think it’s possible, don’t want to, or lacks confidence when comes to dating western woman.

    I don’t understand why people say that only a “certain” type of Chinese guy can date Western woman. What about the author of this blog, you’ve seen her husband? No offense, but appearance-wise, he’s skinny, short etc…..

    And what about the pics of the all the other AMWF couples? The Chinese guy doesn’t “stand out” among other Chinese guys, they all look beyond normal. It’s not like any of them look like Godfrey Gao or some crazy-good looking Asian celeb. None of them are even close to that.

    It’s all about their confidence and mindset.

  32. @SBC
    You need to be extra brave in China to be exceptional. But I’ve known a few parings of African males and Chinese females in China. It is harder though. Is there a double standard? I think so. But I am sure those Chinese girls never thought they would be in such relationships at some point. People don’t change for a cause, but they may change for an individual. I am sure that is also your point.

    The easiest way to change these stereotype is to start dating whoever you like. Life is too short.

  33. askdsk,

    Life is really too short ! I say it with exclamation mark!!! When I see clients and friends died yr after yr, now I know life is short and very valuable. You don’t have to believe me now but in another yr , you will know what I mean.

    In order for us to break thru sterotypes , we have to be stubborn and believe in ourselves and take pride in what we do. We have to DELETE the phrase ” NO WAY” on our mind. There is always a way. The more you talk to me , the more you will like me. Of course, seeing my facial expressions and gestures will be much better. You know don’t ever guess what or who women like. They like you for a reason. Deliver the promises you’ve made and exceed her expectations every single time. Stimulate and blow her mind away. That is the ULTIMATE level of making her like /love you more and more. Trust me , I know what I’m talking about.

  34. @Jason
    A certain type only means you are the type able to be with a non-Chinese woman in an intimate relationship. Whatever that requires……
    I’ve seen all kinds of parings.

    I am leaning to my Chinese side once in a while to keep things into perspectives. I think every partner does that. Sometimes you do give up like any other situation. If anyone is too bothered with stereotypes, you don’t want to be with that person. I ignore stereotypes anyway because I never learned about them growing up.
    I think more people should do just the same.

  35. We all know that the media is the best way to portrait a person’s image. To me , every chinese/asian person should do his or her part to fight sterotypes. We just can’t rely on asian celebrities to do it for us. Tell me if I’m correct?

  36. @Bruce : We’ll be battling stereotypes for years to come. There are very rich and powerful people in the movie and entertainment business who are determined to make fun of Asians in the most demeaning way possible to profit from their movies and TV shows. Many have tried. We need to get Asians to stop playing the roles that are requested by Hollywood execs. I know Bruce Lee refused to play any typical Asian roles during his acting days but he went broke doing so. I’ve already done my part. I’m not a waiter or busboy at a Chinese restaurant. I speak fluent English and I can barely speak Chinese. I do wear glasses because I spent 6 years in college for my masters in electronics engineering (I used to wear contacts though). And I don’t have a mistress.

  37. I am doing my part studying social science and trying not to be ethnic centric. We need to teach the new generations to be involved in political processes and foster activism; integrate through elite education.

  38. @ Bruce
    “What if a man doesn’t date you because you have huge thigh,small breasts and big butt?”

    a) I’d be fine with that, we all have our preferences, I’d hope people try to be as open minded as they can and of course, don’t dismiss ‘races’ of people.
    b) none of those things will interact with a man as intimately as a penis does a woman (or man). That’s why I don’t consider it ‘shallow’ like arguably caring about the above things might be.
    c) It’s not even about aesthetics, it’s about what you are comfortable with going insider you.

    “If a woman only focus on penis size, she must be a NYMPHOMANIAC ( sex addict), a porn star,stripper or a person with very low IQ”

    But it’s not necessarily anything to do with sexual pleasure. If someone is used to smaller penises they might feel uncomfortable with a large penis, and the same vice versa, because it’s not what they’re used to and it’s doing something very very intimate. It’s simply a matter of emotional comfort during sexm which is extremely important.

    I find your comment offensive on many levels.

  39. If penis is not dirty topic, then vagina is fair game. I love tight one. The stereotype is that western women get loose vaginas. But I at least test them out before any conclusion. Some are loose and some quite tight. My own experience is that blonde girls are tighter. None of my dates complained about my size since they all were happy with me. At end, I could not feel too much difference from Chinese women.

    For those women conerned about size of Chinese men’s penis, you should at least try a few before you make any conclusion. You will be surprised how happy you are ;-). If not, then try more ;-). You will find some Chinese men pretty good.

    Some also said women with black dudes would get loose. Is that true? Only one of my previous dates was with black dude before. Yes she is loose. But I can not generalize with one example. And she was happy with me. After broke up, we remained friends of benefit awhile.

  40. @Jo,

    I wanted to be offensive to wait you people up!!! Talk to me man!!! LOL 🙂


    Although I would love to comment very much so, I’m afraid to make another comment about sex to bring up to another level on this conversation. I just need to control my wild animal side. Must control and tame myself. 🙂 ” I’m shy” LOL LOL I can knock you off your sock hahahahahah

  41. @cap
    Though I get what you’re saying, making a parrallel between ‘looseness of vaginas’ and penis size doesn’t quite work. I said that it isn’t shallow to care about penis size because it is important to be emotionally comfortable during sex. (It’s not about sexual pleasure as such) your comment seemed to only be referring to sexual pleasure, which is OK in it’s own right but doesn’t really belong in this conversation. Had you said that some men prefer ‘looser’ vaginas, some ‘tighter’ because it’s what they’re used to and emotionally comfortable with entering with a very intimate part of their body during sex, it would have worked better.

  42. @askdsk
    Yes that is exactly what I mean. I dont think dating all races should be a cause. Not at all. But if you meet an individual and have a connection then their race shouldn’t stop you from dating them. As far as the initial attraction goes, everyone has different preferences, and a lot of times preferences are also dictated by the environment one grows up in. Which is why it is hard for anyone to open up to someone who doesn’t fit the bill instantly. But this changes once you get to know the person.

    I guess the other part of my comment is a critique to the other extreme. People who “claim” to ONLY date certain races. I find that weird, because that makes you feel like anyone from that huge population would do. But to each their own. Personally I would be put off by such a person, let alone date them. But there’s enough “love” in this world for all types.

  43. I may also add to the above comment that by dating I dont mean “trying them out”. I have heard a lot of people would like to “try” or casually date someone from a race just for the “experience” (this happened to me, an asian friend and a blonde european friend, so I dont think its about race or anything). I mean dating towards a committed relationship. There is a huge difference because anything goes for the former but not the latter.

  44. Dating is another process of exercising personal leadership. I am not too bothered by critical comments. You do need critical ears. Plenty of these same discussions around already. Reality is a little more complicated. Most western women are used to seeing go-getters with certain amount of charisma. I do not think most chinese men are that type due to upbringing. But anybody who can exercise good personal leadership will do ok in dating. This is also another place Chinese culture is at odds with the west.

    I also filter out most negative comments from “loser” and “backpackers”. But there are good insights from people who know the culture and country from both men and women.

  45. TALK TO ME PEOPLE!! I LOVE IT ! Well, dating in Chinese is not like buying a bunch of vegetables on the street. We should hang out with positive people only. Negativities can affect your action in life. Have you seen any negative people succeed in real life? How far did them go? not far right? I don’t want to teach you guys sex education here okay. Certain women are built differently. Her body can adjust to a bigger size in a few weeks. If a woman who has had several babies before, she will be a little bit loose. SOME women will do surgery to make it tighter ( vaginal rejuvenation). Seriously, I don’t think it’s penis size. I was with a big breasted woman before. She was wearing pushed up bras and of course her curves got plenty of attention from other women and men. At the end of the day, she was like any other person. It’s all in your head playing with your mind . I have always liked curves on women. Of course, I’ve dated women with little curves too. When I compare two types of women, I like both types. It’s all about personalities. Do you know how much work a big breasted woman have to go thru? See you guys don’t know anything. People stare at her and she has back pain. With time and age , her breasts will hang down and that’s why some women are very self conscious . I’m self conscious about my body also to maintain the muscle mass, not just women. LISTEN PEOPLE, GO HOME AND ASK YOUR ASIAN , WHITE/BLACK/LATIN GF/WIFE IF SHE CARES ABOUT PENIS SIZE AND COME BACK HERE TO REPORT TO US. I CAN GUARANTEE YOU THAT SHE’LL SAY ” YOU’RE JUST THE RIGHT SIZE, YOU’RE BIG OR HONEY, I LOVE YOU THE WAY YOU ARE. I DON’T CARE ABOUT THAT”. That’s why nobody dare to argue with me. I can expand this subject bigger and bigger but I don’t want to. As men, we have plenty of things that we don’t like about women ,too. We all have something we don’t like. Am I right?

  46. Reason #5: I am too racist to date Chinese men. You see, I dont date any non-white men, including black men, so endowment is not an issue. I want my children looking like me. I would rather have a kid who likes me than a super-smart Hapa kid.
    (Some white women who live in Asia fall under this category)
    Reason #6: I am not racist, but my family back home is. How can I take a Chinese or any Asian man and introduce them to my racist white parents. My dad would kill me and my mom will faint. My sister will no longer talk to me.
    (Several white American women who live in Asia fall under this category and also include other white women particularly Aussies and the Brits and especially white South African women)

  47. “A certain type only means you are the type able to be with a non-Chinese woman in an intimate relationship. Whatever that requires……”

    Other than the ability to speak English what other requirements are there?? Western women aren’t some super-humans that only a select handful human beings can date them. Anyone can date anyone if they really want to.

    Haven’t you ever met a Western guy and a Chinese guy, and they’re both identical? In characteristic, personality…etc….you’ve never met anyone like this?

  48. @Jason
    Speaking Chinese to each other works for some people too. My point.
    It is not rocket science, but not sure it is that easy either. Majority of western women would prefer a certain type for relationships, and many are vocal about their types.

  49. I admit I am shy by nature. But if you are attractive, I will be the one talking to you. I am also happy to have conversation going if you start talk to me first. Both cases happened fairly often, after I found my confidence.
    The point is: shy is negatively while attractiveness is positively correlated with confidence. In other word, shy can be overcome, attractiveness can be gained.

  50. My dad used to tell me “you can’t change others, but you can change yourself”
    I must add: by changing your action, your behavior and your attitude, you can make an impact on people around you.
    Hope one day, more people would not think about stereo type when it comes to dating. But to think about you as individual.

  51. Not sure I went overboard on this: At crowded multitrack station, I was standing at platform reading with shoulder to shoulder fellow passengers. I looked up and happen to see a couple standing next to train door. The train was on the track next to mine. So it was one track distance with door glass in between. At the instant, she was looking at me, out of million people. I looked at my book again thinking she was cute, and took another peek. She was there staring at me. At that point, I was curious about how long she could stare, knowing I got nothing to lose. So I looked her and smiled. She pretended talking to her boyfriend but keep peeking over his shoulder. I still looked her and smiling. She kept looking at me until her train just about to leave. Then she leaned on the door and train left. If she thought I was bad guy, she would have told her boyfriend and he would be surely looking at me angrily. Never happened.
    Welcome to the steroetype that Asians are shy !

  52. People who understand themselves are naturally more confident. So it can happen to anyone. Your inner self can change outer reality. Chinese culture has strength in these areas.

  53. Chinese men like white women
    Very little
    Chinese men do not like white women
    American Film
    I only slept with two women
    International joke?
    Who would like sluts?

  54. @MyTwoCents. You wrote that you saw a Chinese dating show a few days wherein a beautiful Russian blond was passed over several times by the Chinese men. Do you have the link to this show? I would be interested in seeing a Chinese dating show as I have never seen one before? Thanks, bro.

  55. @Jocelyn.

    Hey sister. Thanks for this very informative article about the stereotypes of Chinese men. As a Southern White boy in the U.S. where not so long ago there was a lot of prejudice and negative stereotypes (mainly targeted at Negros), I can say that now the South has changed a lot for the better where now we have much less prejudice. I see often times interracial couples mostly between Blacks and Whites. I see Black men with White babes in my small town and no one harasses them. In the nearby city which is much bigger than my small town, I see even more Black men and White chickies as couples. I note that I see less of my fellow White boys wih Black girls though. When I visited other U.S. big cities I see many more of my fellow White boys with Asian “chickies” and once in a blue moon I see an Asian boy with a White chick. I have often wondered why so few Asian boys are willing to go with White chickies. I oftened wondered: do Asian boys including Chinese boys simply not find White chickies attractive? Or do my fellow White chickies simply not find Asian boys attractive? This was a question which was nagging at me for a long time.

    Now that you wrote this beautiful article exposing the negative stereoptypes of Chinese (Asian) men, I now understand why I see so few Asian boys with my fellow White chickies. I was not aware of these stereoptypes. When I was growing up in my small town, I did not view Chinese or Asian boys negatively. I saw in the movies that they were “cool.” For example, I saw Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Jet Li, etc. I grew up seeing Russell Wong in The Vanshing son. Now I see Daniel Dae Kim (Hawaii Give O) and other good Asian actors such as Danniel Henny. The movies do not portray Asian males negatively. I am at a loss to find how these negative stereotypes of Chinese or Asian boys were derived.

    Can someone explain to me where and how these 4 negative stereotypes were derived from?

    I even asked my 2 younger sisters to read this article and they did so. They were shocked to read that these negative stereotypes are circulating about Chinese men. They were not aware of these stereotpyes. One of my younger sister who read “Lame Reason # 2 (penis size of Chinese men being too small to pleasure the woman) lauhged a lot and said that now she is starting to have curiousity about dating Chinese men. She now wants to see if “lame reason number 2” is true or false and she said that she wants to give a Chinese man a try.

    I am sorry, Jocelyn, but one of my younger sisters is a little wild. She wants me to ask you how she should go about seducing a Chinese man because she wants to verify if “lame reason # 2” is true or false? Any advice?

  56. @Manny
    Wow, your sisters would make some asian guys really happy. Some of those negative stereotypes are more likely promoted by hateful white guys who do not want competition from Asians. Yes, negative stereotypes for blacks are also there. But blacks have much more self-esteem to overcome negative odds like research below.

    On the other hand, Asians are more likely to humble with very little pride in their own ethnicity.

  57. @aiyangxifu
    That is one interesting article. I can’t agree with most real messages from woman in that picture. But these women do go with the traditional role route in politics.

    I will add stereotypes are also created by people like Manny’s sister, but mostly from men. I believe good girls shouldn’t kiss and tell.

  58. @ Manny,

    What if that Chinese man ‘s penis is not big enough or hung like a horse for your “wild” sister? Sound like a troll question but it’s not. Your sister will dump him on the spot? Most Westerners care about sizes like the size of a big MAC or the size of Shrimp/steak in a restaurant. Can’t help you there dude. All my chinese male friends are either married or taken by beautiful, successful goddesses already 🙂 . All my brothers are married. Yup , we are taken fast like hot cakes 🙂 lol :). *hot,hot,hot*


  59. @aiyanxifu. Thanks for pointing out the article about how Blacks can overcome the stereotypes.

    @askdsk. My sisters did not create or perpetuate those stereotypes. She is now curious and wants to seduce a Chinese man to see if the stereotype is true or not.

    @ Bruce. I do not know if my wild sister will dump the Chinese man or not if his penis size is small. I guess once she seduces him then she will make that decision.

  60. I hope divorce rate in America is not based on penis size because I will laugh like hell let me tell you. ” You make me all loose, I will sue you in court . :). I’m sicken tired of stirring the pot. the pot is too big ” Seriously, in the past I’ve never ever thought about which women were loose or tight. Maybe I’m just a very normal person physically and mentally. Oh yeah I supposed to be this “shy person” . I shouldn’t have given out info to you guys. 🙂

  61. @Manny
    Explain to me why blacks can’t overcome to get into colleges more than Asians? If they have such high self-esteem and not culturally victimized , I don’t see why they can’t do better at school.

    Comparing to one group with another group this way will not help Asians and blacks.

  62. Manny,

    I think maybe this is just a game to your sister or you but people in general don’t like to be played like this just to verify his or her size ( big ,small, tight or loose). It’s kinda sick to me to tell you the truth. Now you know why asian men don’t want to be with western /white women in general. Asian men don’t see there is any long term love potential in white women. In general, asian men are attracted to kind, honest, caring women. We can feel there is something not right about you okay. There is no asian/chinese men in your town. How can see seduce a chinese man if you don’t have asians? Anyway, I can’t help your sister hooking up with a strong ,powerful chinese man. I know a few men but they are all taken by those beautiful women.Beside, I don’t do matchmaking anymore.

  63. askdsk,

    I agree with you . If a group focuses on football,basketball etc, you will be good at those fields. If another group focuses on education, that group will be good at that ,too. Studying just takes alot of brain energy and work ;however, lifting weights,playing football and basketball don’t need to use brain cells . Do you guys know that China rated last in swimming during the Olympic 20 yrs ago ? Now, I think one world record was set by a chinese man this summer. Another chinese guy was injuried on the “hurdle”. He couldn’t compete due to injury but should have set record . I can understand westerns look down on asian regarding sports because asian people don’t focus on sports. Just like you don’t see alot of Blacks focusing on education. I was into sports , bodybuilding and education. Why do you think I’m such a smart ass? 🙂

  64. @Bruce
    I am trying to say there is nothing inherently wrong with Chinese culture. It is often at odds and in conflicts with “western” culture. It is other people making you think it is your own fault.

  65. @jenna cody

    Your arrogance and total lack of self-awareness is shocking. I found it rather odd that a self-described liberal feminist would be so devoid of reflection and insight. Has it occurred to you that there might have been some socioeconomic reasons for the “culture shock” you experienced in Zunyi, Guizhou, which a Google search could easily tell you is one of the poorest regions in China? And your caricature of their sartorial choices is beyond insulting and, though rather irrelevant to the issue at hand, speaks volumes about your own sense of entitlement.

    Should the men you encountered in Guizhou be pilloried just because they were raised in drastically different conditions than you were? Should they become the fodder for another of your churlish rants just because they did not have the financial means to live a comfortable Western lifestyle? If you are indeed a New York feminist, you should understand that you are not superior to those men; you are simply luckier than them. As a matter of fact, you are probably luckier than the majority of people on this planet. If you don’t even realize that your sojourn in China was a privilege in itself — one reserved largely for Westerners with discretionary income — you obviously do not have the ability to conduct cross-cultural communication in any meaningful way. Then again, I doubt communication was what you had in mind, when you just could not fight the urge to put down other people for deviating from your personal doctrines.

    Any decent human being would understand that your lack of attraction towards someone else does not give you the licence to portray them as senseless Neanderthals. Your frequent attempts to elevate yourself by disparaging others were juvenile, to say the least. By the look of it, I’d say that those men really dodged a bullet.

  66. @Manny I saw the Chinese dating show on Comcast cable (ICN channel) with English subtitles. You don’t need special subscription. I don’t know if you can watch it in your area though. I bet it’s the Chinese goddesses that you’re interested in seeing? Hahaha. Yes there are many of those in the show.

  67. I thought Jenna’s post was good. She was not afraid to speak her mind. She has some typical reactions, which is not atypical. Living in Shanghai and living in Guizhou give you entirely different perspectives.

    I’ve been to Guizhou province.

  68. @Manny I am a young Chinese I am 23 years old

    I laugh at you as ( being ) an idiot Chinese

    Different height(Area) So penis size different

    Chinese and Americans different
    We don’t like crazy the woman Appearance and stature not the most important

    Kind hearts O(∩_∩)O…..Well

  69. Another great post, Jocelyn! I think this post applies to Asian men in general. I grew up in a primarily white area of the United States (Maine) and was never exposed to Asian communities growing up. Also, what I did hear about Asian men were all the negative stereotypes in the media. After moving to NYC, and now living in Seoul, I’ve found myself more and more attracted to Asian men– I dated a few, and although they haven’t worked out, have been my best relationships.

    I love how your blog shows Asian men in a more positive light, because men are men no matter what race they are. I also don’t see how someone could wave off an entire race of people (not to mention all the different ethnicities) as being “ugly.”

  70. Sarah Shaw,

    Now you know asian men are great men? Isn’t it too late now? I can type one thousands times that asian men are great men but it’s useless right? You know have to experience it.

    I think in the past I ‘ve mentioned that in order for any women to find you attractive, you have to have stimulating conversations. Your attitude and personality really show when you talk, it’s very important. Now, back to my hardcore event of the day!

  71. I talked to the girls met in Guizhou. Quite a few were uneducated and forced to give up that education to support family while their brothers could go on and do better. They seem to take that as a simple way of life. In order to break the cycle of poverty, these women need to be at school. It helps to understand minority plight from that angel. Now I am a minority myself.
    Let women have their own fight. We also need to stand up for our own.

  72. @Kedai @Jenna Cody – Everyone entitles an opinion. The way I see it, it is more like social class than anything else. I went to poorest place in US, and met some local people over there. They have no knowledge, no taste, no money, and no personal care. I don’t find those girls with yellow teeth, dirty blue jean anywhere close to attractive. Mean while, I find some girls very attractive in near by University.

  73. @cvaguy
    I thought those two comments are good examples of cross-cultural dialogue. Jenna is certainly not humbled by China. Maybe that is a plain bad word for feminist.

    I like the minority regions in China. I am pro-union. People who complain about that part should study their own history too.

  74. askdsk – that doesn’t really make sense – I like the minority regions in China, too. That’s why I feel it’s important to remember that China is not all “Han”. In fact I’d say my favorite part of China was Xinjiang. Uighur culture is awesome!

    I don’t understand what you mean by “pro-union” – as in dating? As in worker’s unions? As in unified “China”?

    No, to be honest, I was not humbled by China. I am humbled by the history and culture that China has, but saddened by the loss of a great deal of that culture. I had a fun year with a lot of adventures and made some cool friends, both Chinese and foreign. But I did not fall in love with China. I found it polluted, sexist, lacking in freedom/full of propaganda (fortunately plenty of people don’t buy that propaganda), and exclusionary (it has been easy to make friends in Taiwan. I only made two real Chinese friends in a year in China – I felt like there was a wall of ‘you’re not one of us’ at all times that I do not feel in Taiwan). I did not meet any men I wanted to date in Guizhou, but I readily admit that was a cultural differnence compounded by a country/city difference. Had I moved somewhere less remote I would have had a different experience. It wasn’t because Guizhou has many minorities – another of my favorite places in China was the area around Kaili where you will find most of the Miao. My lack of dating options in Guizhou had nothing to do with Miao vs. Han and everything to do with – as above – my urban attitudes vs. the countryside where I lived, and culture shock.

    I didn’t fall in love with the region, however, until I moved to Taiwan.

    That’s just my honest truth. It doesn’t mean China’s bad, just that I didn’t love it.

    But what does that have to do with feminism?

  75. @kedai –

    You think I don’t know that the differences were socioeconomic? Of course I know that. Did you not read the part where I said that if I’d moved elsewhere – say, Shanghai – I would have had a very different experience? Did you not read my post at all? What could you have expected really, that I’d move to Guizhou for a year (I spent a year there) and fallen in love despite the culture shock and language barrier? No, honestly, that was not likely and didn’t happen. Just because I am aware of the vast socioeconomic (and cultural, and linguistic) differences between me and the men of Guizhou doesn’t mean that immediately closes the gap. The gap’s still there, even when you acknowledge it.

    I didn’t hate Guizhou at all. I had a lot of fun there, learned a lot about minority cultures in China, did some fantastic hiking, ate some great food, learned a lot about myself and the world. But I didn’t fall in love there and if I were single and I returned, I probably still wouldn’t.

    As for my description of the sartorial choices of the men of Guizhou, you can say that’s an insulting parody, but what I’m describing is what I saw. That was 10 years ago – I bet things have changed somewhat. Certainly not every man in all of Guizhou dressed like that, but it was a common enough thing to be remarked upon. If you don’t think that’s a common mode of dress in Guizhou, then you haven’t been to Guizhou, and if you think I mentioned it just to be insulting then you don’t know me: I mentioned it as one of the markers of the vast cultural, linguistic and socioeconomic gulf that separated me from the local men. Also, the smoking. The incessant smoking. I don’t care if someone smokes generally but it’s a dealbreaker in a relationship, which would have ruled out about 80% of the men in Guizhou right off the bat.

  76. Plus, I wasn’t trying to portray Guizhou men as Neanderthals. I was saying, quite simply, that I was not attracted to them – but that lack of attraction was not racial. It was cultural and the fact that it was the countryside and I didn’t speak Chinese compounded that.

    Acknowledging that does not mean I am now required to see beyond culture and fall in love with any given person from an area. One can see beyond the culture and still not fall in love. Just ’cause you know it’s a difference doesn’t make it go away. Acknowledging that men in Guizhou are mostly smokers doesn’t mean I now have to give up ‘smoking as a relationship dealbreaker’. Knowing there are differences in gender roles and treatment of women doesn’t mean I am required to accept that in my own life. Knowing I have had a very different life from any given man in Guizhou doesn’t mean I am now required to fall in love with one.

    I do want someone similar to me in values and outlook (and found one) – and that’s not a crime. I’m not required to dump that for any given group of men.

    Also, where did I disparage them for being “poor”, other than acknowledging that, well, yes, it’s a poor region? I don’t care how much money someone has. I care, in a relationship, that we have similar goals and values, get along, have chemistry, and are both good people. The last three are possible with anyone. The ‘goals and values’ is the real sticker. Maybe there is a guy somewhere in Guizhou who has feminist leanings, likes outgoing/talkative women, is someone I’d have chemistry with/be attracted to and get along with, is someone I could talk to on various topics who wants to travel and work around the world and who would treat me the way I’d want to be treated in a relationship, who doesn’t smoke and would be down with a curvier Western woman (I now speak Chinese so language wouldn’t be an issue as it once was), who I could imagine spending my life with. Now that I totally *heart* Taiwan, he’d have to be open to life in Taiwan, and *NOT* talk the same old hooey that many Chinese people believe/say about Taiwan.

    He could well exist. I would never say “there are NO options AT ALL” – there could always be the option you didn’t meet. But I didn’t meet him.

    Just to sort of prove my point – I can say with some certainty that the guy who sells me a breakfast sandwich most mornings in Taipei totally has a crush on me. After 6 years, I can finally tell when that’s happening. I’m married now so obviously that’s not going to happen, but if I were single, yeah, he’s not bad, I’d spend some time with him and see where it went. We have a nice chemistry. He’d a good looking guy (I’m not a fan of the frameless hipster glasses, but whatever, I can ignore those). In the end, let’s face it, I probably make four times what he does in Taiwan. Compared to me he probably is not as well-off (although he likely comes from the Taiwanese middle class, which these days is not that different from the American middle class I grew up in).

    And it doesn’t matter. If I were single I would happily spend time with him to see where it went. I absolutely do not care about money/social class. I do care about culture, and at least having the same values and goals. THAT is the difference.

  77. @Jenna
    I went to Kaili. Union refers to cohesion between countries and region.
    I think it is harder to feel not accepted in a foreign country as a female.

  78. now is 2012
    You can come to Dalian, Shenyang, Qingdao (travel) I hope to change your bias
    I have been to Taiwan
    Taiwan did not you say so good

  79. @Jenna
    Your views on dating is a good example of white privilege. I am not saying it in a mean way. It is an attitude that even some minorities in America might not share, but common in middle class whites.
    An middle class from Taiwan wont’ be able to have certain access to gain cultural and social capital you have. But two people can make things work with shared values and attractions. It is also helps for an Asian guy to understand your point of view and why.

  80. @jenna cody

    Too late for you to backtrack now, Ms. Cody. While Jocelyn centered her entire blog on people that appeal to her and fascinate her, you built your entire presence on this blog on the belittlement of people who don’t. Your previous posts — and not just on this thread — were not anticeptic musings on differences in “culture”; in fact,your routine rants on this blog are a better reflection of your own vile nature than anything else.

    No one is suggesting that you should have no preferences at all when it comes to dating/marriage. Frankly, I couldn’t care less about what kind of partners would be more to your liking. It is when you start denigrating others, often as a guise to elevate yourself, that I’m going to call you out, especially if the people you choose to target happen to be a vast group that have not enjoyed the kind of privileges that you take for granted. You can preserve your own brand of “liberal feminism” for the rest of your life (which does not bother me one bit), but you have crossed the line of common decency when you make a habit of jeering at people who are less fortunate than you.

    You have your head buried in the sand so deep that you do not see how supercilious and judgmental you come across in your replies, especially here: “[S]omeone I could talk to on various topics who wants to travel and work around the world and who would treat me the way I’d want to be treated in a relationship….he’d have to be open to life in Taiwan, and *NOT* talk the same old hooey that many Chinese people believe/say about Taiwan.” It’s perfectly okay to have a cosmopolitan outlook on one’s own life; but this, too, is a luxury that most don’t enjoy. For the vast majority of people in the developing world, choosing where to live and work is not an exercise to be taken lightly. You may decide one day that you need to sail across the ocean, settle in a foreign country, just so you can find yourself, just because you feel like it; for the natives of Guizhou, that’s a ridiculous pipe dream.

    You should feel no guilt in your status as a savvy globetrotter, but you don’t have to run your mouth against others who, for one reason or another, do not share your lifestyle. Unless, of course, you are so insecure that you are establishing some sort of twisted self-validation in this process.

  81. @askdsk – please explain what you mean.

    Obviously a middle class Taiwanese man wouldn’t be just the same as me, a middle class white American. But…the two worlds are not as different as, say, someone from the countryside in China. How is noting that “white privilege”?

    As for having certain dealbreakers and things I want in a relationship, that’s not “white privilege” either, that’s individual right to know what they want and look for it in a relationship. Noting that it would be more likely to find that in Taiwan than, say, rural China is not “white privilege” either.

    So I don’t quite understand what you’re talking about.

    If “cohesion between countries and region” means you favor Taiwan and China unifying, well, OK, we will have to agree to disagree. I support Taiwanese independence, but that is not the topic of this post.

  82. @kedai – I’m not running my mouth against them.

    I’m saying I don’t want to date them. That’s all.

    Which is my right.

    As for other things I’ve said, mostly it’s been to acknowledge that sexism is a problem in China, an issue that many people who read this blog and elsewhere can’t face. I’m not backing down from that: sexism IS a problem in China and around the world, and no, I would not accept sexism in a relationship. It is possible to find non-sexist people anywhere in the world, but I wouldn’t accept it in a partner just because that’s their “culture”. I’m happy to leave their culture alone but that doesn’t mean I have to be OK with it in my life.

    If you think that’s a bad thing, or that I am wrong about sexism in China, frankly, you can suck it. I don’t care.

  83. @Jenna
    I was referring to your political rant about autonomy for minority regions in China. You probably need to look at your own history for some perspectives. I will stop responding.

  84. That has nothing to do with white privilege though.

    As for autonomy for minority regions, yes, I support independence for Tibet and Xinjiang (so do most of the Tibetans and Uighurs if you hadn’t noticed). I also support independence for Taiwan, but as they’re already independent and not a “minority” region, that’s a different debate.

    However, it doesn’t matter how I feel – I’m not the one in charge, nor should I be. It’s not my country and not my culture, and not the topic of this post. It was a side note. It’s not really worth it to get into detail here as this is not a political blog.

    The only part that is really relevant is that it may be wise to watch your words when you say the Chinese are the “sons of Han”. Plenty of non-Han Chinese would not be happy to hear that comment. That’s all. The rest is politics and I think we can agree it’s best not to debate it further.

  85. @Jenna
    You can’t have both ways- appearing to be smart and refuse to listen to criticism. That is why I am done wasting my time.
    Sexism is such an empty statement sometimes. All successful women I met outsmart men and knows how to get along with them at the same time. Like dating, people need to have merits first.
    Men are the ones not easily humiliated because it makes them appearing weak. That certainly also applies to you.

  86. Smoking rates among men in some parts of Asia are really high, it’s terrible. Smoking would be a dealbreaker for me unless the effects haven’t yet damaged her lungs permanently and she is willing to quit immediately.

    Be you a troll or not, your sister would have to sleep with maybe a hundred men to have a large enough sample size. I don’t want to call your sister names or anything, but come on, have some decency!

  87. To tell you the truth, it doesn’t matter who or what Manny is. I could be a troll ,too , you know. At least , I’m an honest troll 🙂 LOL. I know it’s kinda strange to say ” oh I’m the wild one and I would to try these types of women to see if they are really like this blah blah blah ” Sounds really easy and slutty right? There are really those kinds of people out there seriously. We have a chinese saying ” one kind of rice feeds a thousand kinds of people ” We can never control another person’s action. No matter how hard you try to stop this person from doing/trying this kind of behavior, you will fail . Just let that person get ruin then he/she will learn from his /her mistake. I love stubborn people in general sometimes that I tell them this … If you’ve felt chronicle pain before, break your neck, ankles or back, then you will know what I mean. The pain will always be there until you die. Just like when you’ve made a bad mistake? Can you not forget about it? The answer is no.


  88. @Canadian-Born-Chinese-Guy. My sister Pamela (the wild one) only said that she wanted to seduce a Chinese man to see if Lame Reason # 2 can be verified or not. I do not know how serious she was when she made this comment to me. Do you want me to find out? I can ask her.
    As for sleeping with 100+ Chinese men in order to obtain a sufficiently large enough sample to determine penis size, I do not think that my sister Pamela has that much strength or stamina to do 100+ men within a relatively short period of time. But I will ask her and then report back. You are such a silly man, Canadian-Born-Chinese-Guy.

  89. “One quick thing – you may reconsider using the term “sons of Han”. Not all Chinese are Han, and I know a lot of Hakka (among other Chinese minorities) who might be offended.”

    Err,…the Hakka are Han.

    “The Hakka (Hakka: Hak-kâ; Chinese: 客家; pinyin: Kèjiā), sometimes Hakka Han,[1][3] are Han Chinese who speak the Hakka language and have links to the provincial areas of Guangdong, Jiangxi, Guangxi, Sichuan, Hunan and Fujian in China.”

  90. @David

    Being a Chinese born in Australia, it seems to me that the majority of your posts regarding Asian male Caucasian female relationships have a negative hubris about them. Might I ask why? Jocelyn has done a terrific job outlining her exceptional tales regarding AMWF love as well as debunking some of those classic myths regarding AM in general.

    Why be so negative about white women in general, is it from your overall experience? Not all white women are that bad or, dare I say it, possess any form of racist motives- if they did I’m sure I would not even given them any time of day. Why are you accusing South African white women, British anglo women, American white females and to my great dismay white aussie females!!!OK European women and Jewish women aren’t that bad but why accuse white women from English speaking countries.

    I don’t have a girlfriend as of yet given that I am too preoccupied with studies and planning to rake in millions/billions in the stockmarket…haha…future career prospects; however, from my experiences, most white women I’ve come across are reasonable and helpful and on at least two ocassions did I see someone as potential girlfriend/wife material. Given my goals and dedication, I would rather sacrifice a relationship as opposed to making money and getting a spot on Forbes…hmm

    You mentioned something about One Nation in Australia…well I vote Liberal primarially due to their track record with managing debt and waste back in Australia…well if I had lotsa cash I will drive ON to death and kill it, assassinate it, murder it, plot a diabolical scheme and bully them to submission…plus the Greens..:)

    So, David, while the majority of posters on this delightful forum praise AMWF pairings, I would like to recieve a response post haste regarding why all the negativity and blaming racist white women for everything? Ain’t that a bit irrational?


    I’d rather vote for Rommney and another thing- if you are unable to stand very ultra conservative white women or if you think that progressive white women are just as bad- don’t bother dating ANY white women. You might as well just simply forget about it and enjoy your life treading your own path to glory.

  91. @Kevin,

    Why don’t you watch the link I gave above? Joceyln is not giving a bad rep about all white women, she’s just enlightening those who has never had insightful experience with China, especially with Chinese men in particular. You said you’d vote for Romney because you live in Australia. Why don’t you come and live in US for like, let’s say 5 years? and learn all politics? The change in US president or well political party, wouldn’t have an immediate effect on your daily lives. But you’d do wonder if the presidential candidate you’re voting for has credible history of personality and professional deeds. If none of those matters, voting becomes just a mere selection of your personal fantasy among two candidates.

  92. It’s interesting to note this concept of masculine or feminine features, and how people interpret it. For instance, notable chinese people like Bolo Yeung, Michelle Kwan, Priscilla Chan (Mark Zuckerberg’s wife) all have more masculine or tougher features than their white male or female counterparts (based on my point of view). You can google pics of them and see what I mean. They are not the exceptions. There are plenty of regions of China where the majority of the people look like them.

    Height isn’t an indicator of masculinity. For instance, much shorter Italian men are perceived as having more bravado and are more macho than their taller Scandinavian brothers. And there isn’t really a tremendous height gap between Chinese and Caucasians. I live in the diverse city of Los Angeles. East Asians tend to be taller than certain groups like Mexicans and Central Americans who don’t get the feminity label because of their height.

    As for shyness, (again, it’s based on personal interpretation), I view Chinese men and women as louder and more direct than many Caucasians. Go to a restaurant filled with Caucasian people and then go to a restraurant filled with Chinese people and tell me if you notice the difference there.

  93. Lol… those are things people assume of asians in general, so I don’t think the article should have had them.
    I suggest you write an article where you underline the real reasons a lot of women won’t get with (a lot of) chinese, such as being immature pricks, frustrated if they don’t get the response they want from women and thus proceed to insult them, having a funny accent in english, and yes, being kinda… sorta… unnatractive. Oh and I forgot oblivious. And by this I mean they are a two and they think they can date a ten! What a joke! :)) *

    It should be noted that this last feature does not pertain only to the chinese but also other asian nations.

  94. @Mimi
    I am curious what racist country you are from. You talk about funny accent when your broken English speaks your own idiotic views.
    I’ve seen many US college students act like teenagers. Stop generalizing on your own.

  95. Try to speak other languages and see if you have funny accent. If you speak mandarin and you want to speak Cantonese, you will definitely sound different. In the United States, we have southern accent and Northern accent. Do you sound funny? Try to speak our languages and see if we laugh our ass off if you base on accent. Majority of Americans have not travel in their lives before so how can you explain little things like this to them. I don’t know how to explain to a bunch of idiots who have never ever traveled to other countries before. We have to judge on a person’s character not on how he sounds like. I like to talk to smart people and seriously I really don’t like to talk to a brick wall.


  96. Well said 🙂 I also hate this kind of lame excuse…

    I never understand, for me it is very simple as a girl who love men: I love any kind of men!
    I honestly think that about everybody can be charming in his own kind of way. They are just some men that i am bit more attracted to (asian guys). And then there is Love that makes you even more attracted to a guy in particular.

    Anyway some of my foreign friend here still have the same lame speech, and well also… try to convince me. Guys especially insists on the lame excuse n°2.
    I have become very chinese: i just nod to make them stop their BS and move to an other subject.

    Because just like Bruce said talking to wall is just useless.

  97. The whole penis size thing is such BS, since all the surveys were usually done with small samplings of men. One of the most touted surveys constantly toted around as fact was like 5,000 guys over 27 countries, and that’s supposed to represent 3 billion people? (give or take 1/2 the world’s general population rounded down and split into two genders). If people believe that, then they must believe blondes are stupid and redheads are trouble.

    Besides if you’re going to go with stereotypes in the penis department, then apparently Asian guys have the hardest cocks and last the longest then 😛

  98. Born & raised in the U.S. I was surrounded by people of various races. It was neither good or bad. We were just different but all Americans. When I became an adult I found that “liberal” Amerika had changed it’s mind on the Chinese race. It was alright that a white man could marry a chinese woman but it was a mortal sin for a chinese man to marry a white woman. I am college-educated, well versed in cultural happenings, have retired with a good income from my investments, do my own house maintanance and repairs. Yet, I am outcasted because I am different from mainstream. Asian women don’t date or marry asian men. White women don’t date or marry asian men. That is it in a nutshell. I have dated white women and have caused the sexual awakening in all my past relationships. I was married to a woman from China and did the same. Nowadays, I am considered old, weak, antisocial and useless. Too bad so many women are missing out on what could be the best relationship they could ever have.

  99. The sum of all four reasons = RACISM. Just do a background check..very few will date any non-white male. I have known white people in Asia who wont allow their kids to bring locals home. However, if I dont like a certain group of people I will not go and live in a country where they predominate. Then again, for many racist people, fat salaries and benefits are too tempting to resist.

  100. Coming to this conversation a bit late. I lived in Japan for 18 months and seriously… what’s not to like about these men? I can’t imagine many western women would object to Godfrey Gao, Takeshi Kaneshiro or Hiroshi Abe – but I’d be happy to pick up the slack if they did 😉

  101. I can only laugh at female visitors who came here to drop a note saying “It’s not true, I’m married to a 6’4 tall Asian man”.

    You fail at logic.

    You confirmed every stereotype written by the author.

    Your posts translate to “I date or would date an Asian man who fits all the Aryan stereotypes and acts like a real Teutonic knight”. Yeah sure, wow, it’s some crazy level of tolerance for cultural differences!!!!!!!!!!!!

  102. “In general I don’t like people from X or Y tribes, but I have got some friend who’s X and some husband who’s Y”.

    Such a typical response from prejudiced individuals, to accusations of discrimination.

  103. Bravo! I recently started dating (and fell head-over-heels for) and incredible Chinese man. He’s tall, strong, loving, affectionate and, I do not exaggerate, has the largest penis I’ve ever encountered on any man. Period. Stereotypes are utter bullshit.

  104. Three out of your four lame reasons are personality driven.

    I hear pretty much everyone joke about penis size for Asians. But I agree that it is a little lame that a white girl would not want to go out with an Asian guy.

    Effeminate, shyness and not attractive are a mind set. Yes, even attractiveness.

    Being ‘effeminate’ is behavior. It is not purely physical. Being slim with narrow shoulders does not automatically make one delicate and frail.

    Shyness? Again, it is how one thinks. It has nothing to to do being ‘Asian’.

    Attractiveness has two components to it. There are physical characteristics that make up what is considered ‘good looking’. But pretty much everyone overlooks where true attractiveness comes from. Personality. I have met very average looking people but were so personable that any obesity, poor taste in clothing etc pretty much overrides it.

    Every Asian guy who fails at meeting white girls blames it on culture, racism, ignorance, bigotry etc. when the real reason is themselves. Nerdy losers who can’t accept the fact that a real girl is not going to want to go out with a guy who only talks about world of Warcraft, poor hygiene and the conversational equivalent to downloading code from a torrent. I don’t even know if that last statement is correct. It just sounded geeky. And please let me know if I am wrong because you will just admit to the world all that is wrong with y’all in being unable to be with real women of any ethnicity.

    1. Mostly racism on the part of white society and fear and loosing face on the part of the Asian…it does not look good, for some reason, if you ask a white female out and you get rejected at least from the perspective of Asian society,

  105. Perhaps you should ask some of those minorities if they agree with the Chinese government’s view before you criticize my post.

    And perhaps you should ask if every Hakka is happy with the way China has treated them (they’re not).

    And perhaps you should ask Taiwanese people if they prefer to be called Chinese or consider their country to be a part of China (they don’t).

    If you think most people disagree, perhaps you mean only a certain subset of people who believe what the government tells them.

    Of course I haven’t lived in China for a long time, I’ve been living in a totally different country, Taiwan!

    But thank you for calling me a feminist! That’s a great compliment and I appreciate it.

    And I am not sorry at all for getting political.

  106. Hah. Wow. This one made me laugh. This is rich. I love that you wrote this (and that you always write from the heart, without worrying what other people will say).

    All of them are, indeed, lame reasons. Hah.

  107. @Hi Jenna

    Perhaps you should ask some of those minorities if they agree with the Chinese government’s view before you criticize my post.

    There are people disagree with the Government in Every country. I already know this, you don’t have to mention it, everyone knows!!!!!!!! AND NO GOVERNMENT IS PERFECT!!!! DO YOU AGREE?????

    And perhaps you should ask if every Hakka is happy with the way China has treated them (they’re not).

    I am Hakka myself and Hakka people live over many places in China. Perhaps you should notice me how many of us are very not happy about the government and whereabouts? Do you have any idea at all?????? Are you telling me you know more about my people than me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give me a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And perhaps you should ask Taiwanese people if they prefer to be called Chinese or consider their country to be a part of China (they don’t).

    When the Chinese Nationalist government left for Taiwan, they took all the gold reserve in mainland China to Taiwan and these golds belong to the Chinese people. So, if people in Taiwan don’t want to be Chinese then PLEASE PAY BACK THE GOLD RESERVE THEN WE CAN TALK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    If you think most people disagree, perhaps you mean only a certain subset of people who believe what the government tells them.

    I never believe everything government tells me. All I am saying is most of people will dissgree with you on SOME of the things you mentioned. LIKE WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT MY PEOPLE!!!!!!! SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!

    Of course I haven’t lived in China for a long time, I’ve been living in a totally different country, Taiwan!

    And If you did not live in China for a long time and from what you said I can see you don’t know much about Chinese history!!!!!!! Or may be you don’t want to know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then with all due respect, PLEASE DO NOT SAID THINGS YOU DON’T KNOW MUCH and PLEASE DO NOT SPEAK FOR OUR HAKKA PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU DO NOT KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    But thank you for calling me a feminist! That’s a great compliment and I appreciate it.


    And I am not sorry at all for getting political.



  108. Western women think Asian men are sissies. Asian men get mad. Asian men think black women are a.b.c. and the list goes on. Karma just had a good day. Suck it.

  109. It’s still alot of chinese on planet earth, maybe it’s just not seen as particularly exotic?
    I know some women that only like asian guys.
    Although plenty that don’t, the reason there is just to feminine. No beard growth for example. And big nose and big hands and big ears are traits that males in most of the world have, asians don’t tend to have that. Usually asian guys might have smaller nose than a western woman for example.
    Obviously there are always exceptions! But I think ur wrong when u write that is just a stereotype. Yes it’s a stereotype, but I’m sure western women would date a chinese men that asked them out if they was attracted and what ever else they are looking for.
    But still women think with there hearts alot so it’s has to do with emotions. Maybe they are thinking about haveing children, obviously a blondy that hasa baby with a chinese men won’t see much of her “genes” inte the baby since it will not have blue eyes or blond hair.
    I would like my child to have some resimpliens to me in the end… don’t u?

  110. “And big nose and big hands and big ears are traits that males in most of the world have, asians don’t tend to have that. Usually asian guys might have smaller nose than a western woman for example.”

    Amy Pascal a white female exec at Sony made similar comments about Asian women having small flat noses according to the hacked emails….so it is not just a male issue among white people.

    1. Well in the end, people are attracted to other people that remind them on themselves or someone else they loved/liked.
      So a girl might just look for someone that reminds them of there dad for example. Even though they are obviously not aware of it, wasn’t that Freuds thinking?

  111. @Al…if that is the case Asian women will not be aggressively looking for white men…if you say that the white women behave this way, it is probably very true.

  112. Or how about because most people don’t like being used? I’ve been attracted to Asian males ever since I was just a runt. I even asked out a Chinese guy from my nursing class. That turned out to be the funniest rejection ever.
    Anyway, I’ve heard the numerous horror stores of Western females getting dumped by their Asian partners because the parents want them to marry from their own race. Anybody would be scared away from that.

  113. In the world community, Asian’s lack the traits correlated with status.

    Taller is universally demanded by women. Google height, wealth, authority

    Think of all the other traits women say they want and how most all of them are correlated with higher wealth and authority.

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