Are interracial couples of Asian men & Western women really that rare? A field report from Hong Kong | Speaking of China

204 Responses

  1. Sveta
    Sveta April 18, 2014 at 7:51 am | | Reply

    Wow I’m shocked. Only six AM/WW couples?!

    1. Belony
      Belony April 27, 2016 at 3:23 pm | | Reply

      Properly 90% of of those 114 WM/AF couples in Hong Kong were not even local Chinese women. I’m a German living in Hong Kong for 3 years with my Malaysian girlfriend (of Chinese descent ) and almost all the white guys with the Asian girls in Hong Kong were either Thai, Filipina or Japanese, they were just on vacation to Hong Kong.

  2. Sam
    Sam April 18, 2014 at 11:32 am | | Reply

    Its not the numbers that count, its the quality that counts. Cheers !

  3. Lina
    Lina April 18, 2014 at 11:41 am | | Reply

    Honestly, less than I expected. For Hong Kong – Western couple I know 3 including me and myself, can’t believe we make half of it haha 🙂
    I remember on baidu one guy made a whole topic where he… posted a photo of AMWF couple at the HK airport… I guess it was a bid deal 🙂

    1. Erik
      Erik May 28, 2014 at 12:11 pm | | Reply

      @Lina Do you have a link to that? Just curious because my gf and I visited HK a few months ago

    2. Belony
      Belony April 27, 2016 at 4:08 pm | | Reply

      My experience

      5 Asian guys with White girls in HK

      30 Asian girls with White men in HK

      But like I said. I seriously doubt most of these Asian-White couples in Hong Kong were even formed with local people. Having lived in Hong Kong for 3 years with my Malaysian girlfriend most of the white males- Asian girls that we came in contact in the pubs, nightclubs, restuarant and other places ect were either Filipina, Japanese, Thai or Chinese descent from Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore on vacation. Of the 5 Asian guys with white girls in HK I know one is definately Hong Kong local but of the 40+ Asian women I only know 3 are local Hong Kong while 12 of them I’ve met don’t even have origins with Hong Kong. I don’t know about the rest though I’m not good with telling Asians apart especially when they are Chinese descent from other countries.

  4. Susan Blumberg-Kason
    Susan Blumberg-Kason April 18, 2014 at 11:49 am | | Reply

    Wow, this is startling! I knew it was not an even score, but didn’t think it was this imbalanced! I have a theory, though, that could explain the huge disparity in Hong Kong. I think people in HK are quite traditional and that there hasn’t always been a great mixture between foreigners and locals even though HK was a colony for 150 years. China, on the other hand, was closed for so long that the opportunities to mix with foreigners is relatively new this time around. And that people in China sometimes live far from their hometowns, especially if they are fortunate to go to university. HK is so small that it’s easier to see family every week. Also, and this might be the biggest factor, more foreign women study Mandarin than Cantonese, so they might be more likely to date a guy who speaks Mandarin. Again, just a theory. There are probably many more single Western men living in China than single Western women. So that’s another factor. All in all, a fascinating study!

  5. Sara
    Sara April 18, 2014 at 12:33 pm | | Reply

    Wow, I would have guesses Hong Kong to have more AMWW couples! Fred’s report has inspired me to do my own field report in Guangzhou! But I very very rarely see AMWW couples here, besides two that are my friends. So for one I got three AMWW couples in Guangzhou, let’s see if I can find more!

  6. Laura
    Laura April 18, 2014 at 1:30 pm | | Reply

    In Shanghai is rare to see a couple formed by a Chinese man and Western woman, but it is even more uncommon in rural areas. When we registered our marriage in T’s village the Official from the Government office said that it was the first time they registered this “kind of” marriage in their files.
    While in Las Vegas I also met a guy from Shandong and his wife from Venezuela. We were very excited when we realized we had that in common, we felt closer and exchange our contact details in order to see how we could work together in the future.

    Anyway, I just hope uncommon is not a synonym of strange / ackward or even extraordinary for anyone.

  7. Marta
    Marta April 18, 2014 at 2:53 pm | | Reply

    Ha! I was expecting the WM/AF team to win but I wasn’t expecting the AM/WW to lose so badly. Just 6 couples in 10 days…

    I don’t know any other AM/WW couples in Suzhou but I basically don’t know any foreign women here, so it’s not surprising.

    If I think about it I haven’t met a lot of AM/WW couples (except you girls from the internet, haha). In Spain I have met 3 such couples (Spanish woman with ethnic Japanese, Korean and Chinese guys, all of them raised in Spain). A friend from Beijing had a kid with a Swedish girl. And one of my best friends is married to a Filipino. When they went to register the marriage in the Spanish consulate in Manila, the consul told them he had registered a lot of Spanish man & Filipina couples, but this was the first time he had registered a Filipino & Spanish woman couple.

  8. Eileen黃愛玲
    Eileen黃愛玲 April 18, 2014 at 3:31 pm | | Reply

    That’s interesting. I don’t know any AMWF couples, honestly. I’ve only seen a few while living in Shanghai for over a year.

  9. Many reasons
    Many reasons April 18, 2014 at 7:25 pm | | Reply

    There are many reasons for this:

    1) Most women prefer physically larger men. Sorry but sexually speaking, bigger and stronger men with physically smaller women is sexy. There are big Asian men, but statistically speaking, western women frequently outsize Asian men.

    2) Western women are less submissive and resist gender roles. Asian men and women tend to adhere to stricter gender roles.

    3) Asian men are often not strictly monogamous. They all (well, mostly) have girlfriends and mistresses. Western women — particularly Anglo Americans — consider this a non-starter.

    4) Asian men look for much younger wives. Western men also pursue younger Asian wives. Western women prefer to marry closer to age 30 which is a non-starter for many Asian men.

    5) Western men have adapted to an expanded role of women in society. Asian men, not so much.

    6) the cultural ideal of female beauty is slim and small. The cultural ideal of male beauty isn’t.

    1. HS23
      HS23 April 20, 2014 at 9:16 am | | Reply

      Let’s talk about your reason no 3. from what I know most of Asian men are strictly monogamous; most of asian men don’t cheat their wives or girlfriends. It’s illegal in China and many asian countries to have more than 1 wife.

      When you accused asian men having mistresses, do you think it doesn’t happen in other races/communities? only in asian?
      look at Bill Clinton, Arnold Schwarzeneger, Sylvio Berlusconi, Jacob Zuma (South African president having 4 wives) etc. they are just tip of an iceberg. there are many many more men in their races doing such things, including the ordinary ones. One of my American friends told me when he had a business trip in the Philippines a few months ago, he passed a red light district and he saw a lot of white and black men enjoying local ladies. He said those men don’t look young, they might have wives and families in their countries. I believe something like this happens in many other countries, not only in the Phlippines.
      another example; in my company, a head of department (a married white guy) slept with his secretary.

      To all white and black men, I’m sorry I’m not offending you. I’m just challenging our friend here, “Many reasons.” he/she doesn’t realize or maybe pretend not knowing the “mistress and polygamy” issue happens everywhere.

  10. Phil
    Phil April 18, 2014 at 7:40 pm | | Reply

    Sounds interesting and I think it is fair observation. Since I relocated Hongkong 4 years ago. I think I came across only a few AMWF couples , including myself. But lots of WMAF couples. (Not that I have been tallying up with pen and paper, but it is just an observation).

  11. Phil
    Phil April 18, 2014 at 7:45 pm | | Reply

    @Many reasons
    My fiancee and I are one of those people who have broken your reasons #1, so I guess we are even more unusual in that respect 🙂

  12. Laura
    Laura April 18, 2014 at 7:49 pm | | Reply

    @Many reasons,
    I know more couples formed by a man from Shandong and a foreign woman than from other provinces in China.
    My friend says is because Shandong men are taller, darker if from a rural area and know how to drink.
    😉
    When my husband and I go to Europe everyone points out that he looks different from those Chinese citizens who live there. And they mention those features, not being as white, and taller than they thought.

  13. Many Reasons
    Many Reasons April 18, 2014 at 8:31 pm | | Reply

    Just in case I offended anyone: My point was certainly not to define hard and fast rules — simply my perception of where the statistical majority lies. Are there exceptions, oh yes thousands! Vive la difference!

  14. Susan
    Susan April 19, 2014 at 3:19 am | | Reply

    I live in a small town where at least 2/3 of the people are students of or work for a major university. This gives our place a lot more ethnic diversity than the surrounding area but I completely agree with Fred. Sorry to disappoint, Many Reasons, but every single one on your list is blown away by our relationship.

    Around here I have seen a number of couples where a White man is with an Asian woman, but my Chinese boyfriend and I seem unique everywhere we go. Among his friends he is the only one dating a White woman, even though he knows several White men with Asian girlfriends or wives.

  15. Fred
    Fred April 19, 2014 at 6:13 am | | Reply

    I forgot to mention one detail which may be of interest to everyone. Among the 6 AM/WF pairings, the men in 2 of the pairings had significant exposure to Western people. I was among the 2 men and I lived in the West for many decades. The second pairing was between a Chinese man and a French girlfriend; I meet them on the cable car en route up to the Big Buddha on Lantau Island and he lives in France. As for the other 4 AM/WW pairing I did not talk to them and thus I cannot delineate whether they had sufficient exposure to Western women. So, the conclusion is that Chinese men, without significant exposure to Western people or Western women, will highly unlikely would want to pair up with a Western lady. Jocelyn’s husband (Jun) is an exception to the rule. Even Chinese men with significant exposure to Western men and women will have a lot of reluctance just as I once had before.

  16. Huu
    Huu April 19, 2014 at 9:20 am | | Reply

    Well women of any race do prefer taller men. Asian men aren’t known for their height and that’s pretty much the end game. It’s easier for Asian women to find a foreign partners simply because there’s no pressure on their height or themselves to initiate the first move, and foreign men have always had an infatuation for Asian women. As an Asian man I find white women more attractive because their facial and body features are…well…just more attractive. However my height holds me back and with so many negative stereotypes on Asian men (not women) it makes it even harder. So when it comes to AM, we are on the short end of racism and sexism.

  17. Constance - Foreign Sanctuary
    Constance - Foreign Sanctuary April 19, 2014 at 12:55 pm | | Reply

    If I conducted the same study in a major city in Taiwan, I am sure I would find similar results! Like I said in a comment on a previous post, a woman couldn’t believe that my husband (then boyfriend) and I were a couple – it is just that uncommon and rare to see a Western woman with an Asian guy.

  18. David
    David April 20, 2014 at 2:09 am | | Reply

    “Please note that Hong Kong is considered quite Westernized.”

    America is WESTERN and the ratio here is even more warped. That said, if you are a AMWW couple other than Hawaii or the west coast, you are better off living outside the US in places such as China, Singapore, Japan or Hong Kong. You will face a lot less racism (if any) in those countries and there will be a lot less stress on the marriage as a result. These days the proportion of white British Female-Japanese Male couples in Japan has increased significantly because it has become almost impossible to get British residency for the Japanese spouse. In fact there have been several articles along these lines. I actually met several JM-British WW couples in Malaysia..the husband cannot get the visas to move to the UK..some have been around for nearly three to four years and no progress.

  19. David
    David April 20, 2014 at 2:14 am | | Reply

    @Constance – Foreign Sanctuary..During my week long stay in Taipei during May 2008 I saw at least over a hundred white men but only three white women, and that too on the last day. In fact, after not seeing white females for six days, even my mother and sister noted that there were three white females on the street. In contrast, saw plenty in Beijing and Shanghai two years later.

  20. David
    David April 20, 2014 at 2:16 am | | Reply

    Face it…Other than white women confined to sites such as these, very few want to date or marry Asian or for that matter any non-white male…at least here in the US.

  21. David
    David April 20, 2014 at 2:20 am | | Reply

    “If I think about it I haven’t met a lot of AM/WW couples (except you girls from the internet, haha).”

    @Marta…are we alone in this universe, we ask of ourselves…cant say. But are WW-AM couples that exist pretty much confined to sites such as these…you nailed it…pretty much. Here in the East Coast you occassionally find one or two pairs. And that is about it.

  22. David
    David April 20, 2014 at 2:23 am | | Reply

    “It just makes me wanna breed out the east asian DNA that I have.”

    One drop rule…here in the US, you will always be considered Asian if your other half is white…if your other half is black or Hispanic, you will be considered black or Hispanic…you will never become white.

  23. David
    David April 20, 2014 at 2:26 am | | Reply

    Many reasons….you left the main reason at least here in the US….RACISM…an interracial couple does not want to be on the path of folks like Glenn Miller, do they?

  24. David
    David April 20, 2014 at 2:30 am | | Reply

    “So, the conclusion is that Chinese men, without significant exposure to Western people or Western women, will highly unlikely would want to pair up with a Western lady.”

    By your hypothesis, we should have a lot of American born Chinese men with white women here in the US…we dont see too many. I think the numbers are even more warped here in the US than back in the Far East, Hong Kong included. If you as Asian American men, even in a diverse place such as California, they usually say that they are rejected by WW and give up. Hawaii for some reason seems to be an exception.

  25. David
    David April 20, 2014 at 2:32 am | | Reply

    Huu is absolutely right…but more so racism from white women than sexism. If taller men are the issue, white American women would date black and Hispanic men in large numbers…they dont. It is a stereotype that black women dont date outside their race…actually statistics show that white American women are least likely to date outside their race after white South African women…it is a history of racism in these two countries.

  26. kajsa
    kajsa April 20, 2014 at 4:07 am | | Reply

    what is tright or wrong? the thing i feel may be bad is that you are so concern of the race not the person. meet the person you want for them not their race 😛

  27. Laura
    Laura April 20, 2014 at 9:25 am | | Reply

    @Fred,

    I don’t know if that’s too relevant in this case. From all the couples I know online and offline (there are not many so the sample is quite representative…) only in 2 of them the husband has been living /studying or traveling in the west before.

    People tend to think that we are talking about men exposed to a Western side or more wealthy or for some reason I also read “Shanghai men are more international so any foreign woman would choose a man from Shanghai”.
    I only know 2 couples where the husband was exposed to US
    1 couple where he is from Shanghai
    The rest of the couples I know we are talking about men who come from rural areas and the only exposure to western world comes from TV.

    On the other hand, I have quite an amount of Chinese girlfriends with western boyfriends and two of those girls studied with me in France, and the other girls were living abroad also beforehand…

    So I couldn’t come and say that there is a rule cause I see diversity. Some were in those countries earlier, some have never left their village, some are artist, some are students, some are in business, some are working the field, some speak Mandarin, some Cantonese, …

  28. David(originally from HK)
    David(originally from HK) April 20, 2014 at 11:25 am | | Reply

    My experience during my visit of Hong Kong two years ago was similar to Fred’s. I saw many more WM/AF couples than AM/WF couples on the streets. One thing I noticed, however, was that with quite a number of the WM/AF couples, the WM was a lot older than the AF. In contrast, the few AM/WF couples I saw in Hong Kong had the two partners of similar age. These more senior white guys in the WM/AF couples that I saw tended not to be physically fit. I wondered whether these white guys would be able to attract a younger white wife/gf if they were back in their home countries. A few months ago, I came across this website that Jocelyn has put together for the AM/WF community. I read that, like in Hong Kong, the age disparity situation of WM/AF also occurs in mainland China, and I also read about the reasons discussed. I just hope that the Chinese women paired with their much older white guys were driven by true love for the guys. But that is doubtful. Tonight I went to dinner in a Chinese restaurant in a suburb of Washington, DC. I saw a WM/AF couple dining in the restaurant, in which the white guy was in his late 60’s with a big belly and the beautiful AF looked about 30 years old. When they left the restaurant, the white guy was hobbling. They did walk out holding hands. I could only hope that both of them were truly in love.

  29. Marta
    Marta April 20, 2014 at 1:22 pm | | Reply

    Yesterday I went to have dinner in a Korean restaurant. On the tv they were showing a concert of several k-pop bands in Paris. It was in a huge stadium or a similar place, and it was full of European young girls crying for a bunch of Korean teenagers that didn’t look tall or masculine at all to me. Maybe Korean pop bands will make more Western girls feel attracted to Asian men? haha!

    BTW I suddenly remembered that when I was attending Uni in Beijing I did know more AM/WW couples. Most of the guys were Korean.

    1. D-Maybe
      D-Maybe April 21, 2014 at 11:38 am | | Reply

      Yeah, K-pop has definitely done a lot to widen the appeal of Asian men in recent years. G-Dragon, for example, is simply badass and he makes white girls everywhere swoon.

  30. Coll
    Coll April 20, 2014 at 5:13 pm | | Reply

    What about the pairing Chinese man and black woman in this field report?
    I guess it must be a negative figure.

  31. jon
    jon April 20, 2014 at 7:55 pm | | Reply

    I think height has alot to do with it. I live in a western country but am only 1.77m. There are many white girls who are 1.80m+ I can’t fathom asking them out, they probably will reject me as they want equal height or taller.

  32. half-asian boy
    half-asian boy April 21, 2014 at 3:34 am | | Reply

    Can you delete my old comment Jocelyn? I think it was too negative and negativity doesn’t help anything. This thing is going to come full circle for sure.

  33. SBC
    SBC April 21, 2014 at 5:54 am | | Reply

    I have always had mixed feelings on this issue of profiling and tabulating interracial couples of any combination. On one hand, it can empower those that suffer from negative stereotypes like asian men. On the other hand, it reinforces the very tyrannical system it is trying to oppose; one which looks at individuals as a representative of their race and therefore dehumanizes them into a bunch of stereotypes. The only difference is that these stereotypes are positive and not negative (or are they; asian women are feminine might be a positive trait, but it only ends up tying down asian women to standards they may not want to confirm to).

    Why should white men date asian women but white women not date asian men? I don’t understand how this is either a question or an answer to the negative stereotypes propagated by media about asian men. Dating a white woman would not make them any more of a man. Frankly if men think they need to date a certain type of women to be more manly/ desirable are less men in my eyes than any effeminate, short, stubby, nerdy tiny p&nised man on the planet.

    That being said, while I am all for supporting and empowering fellow interracial couples of any combination, this particular question to me seems silly even if sociologically it might be interesting. I think the world is changing one step at a time. If people choose a partner not because of race but despite it, then that is awareness. Choosing someone based on race is simply another form of racism. Asian women face it; white people in general face it. Why add asian men to the list. Sure they may not be able to get MANY women, but at least asian men can rest easy that they at least wont be dating any stupid racist women?

    1. D-Maybe
      D-Maybe April 21, 2014 at 11:54 am | | Reply

      I agree with you in that Asian men should not look to white women as a source of validation for their own masculinity/attractiveness. To do so would in fact serve to reinfornce the supposed inferiority of Asian men or Asians in general.

      However, I think the fact that Asian men are not more popular with white women is interesting because of the questions it raises about the inherent racism that pervades society/culture and about our ideas regarding gender roles, which are apparently still quite conservative/traditionalist despite all the talk of social progress and female empowerment of modern times.

    2. Allen
      Allen April 22, 2014 at 5:49 pm | | Reply

      “…….but at least asian men can rest easy that they at least wont be dating any stupid racist women?”

      Hahahaha!! Thank goodness for unintended blessings.

  34. David
    David April 22, 2014 at 12:13 am | | Reply

    “Choosing someone based on race is simply another form of racism. Asian women face it; white people in general face it. ”

    You mean white people (women?) practice racism. As I have said, when a southern white wants to marry a southern white it could be interpreted as cultural compatability of confederate flag wavers. However, when a southern white claims it is ok to date and marry a Russian or Ukrainian (from recent events it is very evident that these two ethinicities belonging to the white group claim they are very dissimilar) but not a sixth generation Asian, then it is an issue of racism and bigotry as selection is made based on skin color. I am afraid there are at least a few Americans who belong to the latter category.

    1. SBC
      SBC April 22, 2014 at 3:28 am | | Reply

      @ David
      No I meant that these groups are preferred as partners because they are stereotyped as having certain traits and this ties them to the said stereotypes. White people are not the only racist people on this planet. Racism, ironically, has no color.

  35. David
    David April 22, 2014 at 12:16 am | | Reply

    “what is tright or wrong? the thing i feel may be bad is that you are so concern of the race not the person. meet the person you want for them not their race.”

    At least most people are concerned about the skin color of their partners, not other traits. Look, if masculinity is the only issue, white women will be flocking in droves to black or Hispanic men…the fact that 90% do not tells me only one reason…Racism…has nothing to do with the masculinity of Asians.

  36. Fred
    Fred April 22, 2014 at 12:25 am | | Reply

    @ David (Originally from HK).

    “My experience during my visit of Hong Kong two years ago was similar to Fred’s. I saw many more WM/AF couples than AM/WF couples on the streets. One thing I noticed, however, was that with quite a number of the WM/AF couples, the WM was a lot older than the AF. In contrast, the few AM/WF couples I saw in Hong Kong had the two partners of similar age[.]”

    My observation is similar to yours. I saw some WM/AW where the male is much older than the female. The men are overwight; some are semi blad and with a bigger stomach. I saw some Filippinas with older White men. The men in the AM/WW situation is that they are both similar in ages.

    Fred

  37. Allen
    Allen April 22, 2014 at 5:26 pm | | Reply

    I didn’t know there was contest going on. :-).

    In all seriousness though, the couples here really shouldn’t look at the (much) higher numbers of WM/AF versus AM/ XF couples as a loss.

    Just focus on your own relationship, if you’re an AM in a good relationship with an XF, or an XF in a good relationship with AM, its a win for YOU as a couple regardless of how many WM/AF couples are out there.

    Its good that the much smaller AM/XF community are generally made up of decent people who support each other as evidenced by this blog and ones like it.

  38. Phil
    Phil April 22, 2014 at 11:13 pm | | Reply

    Wow, it’s good to see the conversation rolling

    @David – I agree that relationship is down to the individual couples based on their individusl choice. Having said that conversations like these make good banters. You never know, one day you may be at a pub quiz and this is the price-winning question. You might just end up getting a few pints free. 🙂

    1. Phil
      Phil April 22, 2014 at 11:14 pm | | Reply

      Sorry, I meant @Allen

  39. Phil
    Phil April 22, 2014 at 11:32 pm | | Reply

    By the way, as a general observation, there are few comments on this site and other similar AM/WF forums that talk about racism toward Asian men. I don’t want to sound insensitive, but I only notice these kind of comments ever since I discovered the world of AM/WF online community few months ago. It seems that people who talk about it have experience it mostly in the States. Is it really that bad in the States or is it just my preception? Please correct me if I am wrong, but I can only speak for my experience.

    I’ve been in a AM/WF relationship for more than 7 years, and I have lived in the UK and Hongkong for many years. I don’t recall or notice anything like what people have commented. I’m not sure whether I’ve been very lucky or whether I’ve been oblivious about it.

    Maybe you guys can shed some light?

  40. David
    David April 23, 2014 at 12:09 am | | Reply

    “It seems that people who talk about it have experience it mostly in the States.”

    The United States….especially the US South…as I said earlier no one will attack a white southern male for going after Asian females in Hong Kong (remember Manny?), but let an Asian or Asian American try that in Tuscaloosa, Alabama see what happens…by the way for a treatise of segregation in Tuscaloosa, read the following article….

    http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/04/segregation-now/359813/

    I once supported the voucher program for children by saying that they should pay the students in low performing schools to pay to attend relatively high performing schools in Alabama such as the mostly white Mountain Brook High…people who supported vouchers turned against it and all I got…death threats from whites in Alabama…on the blog of course.

  41. Manny
    Manny April 23, 2014 at 4:48 am | | Reply

    Wow! I cannot believe the stats are so much in favor of us white boys!!! That is great to know.

    @ David. It is so refreshing to know that older white men are able to get themselves younger Asian female companions. When I get old, I would love to be in their shoes and have younger Chinese H.K. girls readily at my finger tips. I am so happy to read this article and your comments. I am loving every moment that we white boys are viewed in such a postive way by the Chinese.

    1. Yourhusband
      Yourhusband February 11, 2015 at 8:47 pm | | Reply

      Guess they forgot to tell you that those hk women were all unattractive. Chinese women consider good looking chinese men as superior to any white boy. Oh, and white men in asia have the reputation of being losers in their home countries

  42. Fred
    Fred April 23, 2014 at 8:20 am | | Reply

    @ Sara.

    I am glad that you will do your own field study and will submit a report. Let’s see if the proportion is more or less the same. I am willing to bet that the AM/WW team will lose even more.

    Fred

  43. Lizzy
    Lizzy April 23, 2014 at 1:08 pm | | Reply

    I love your blog! specially because I’m a western girl dating and asian guy, (I’m mexican and my bf is chinese) so it is really interesting to see how rare interracial couples of asian men & western women are there! I didn’t even know that there are communities online! I’m gonna look up for more ^^ thanks for the post and your field work haha =)

    I really like your posts! keep it up =)

  44. David
    David April 23, 2014 at 8:28 pm | | Reply

    I did this informal survey back in the 1980s at this midwestern campus known for engineering where I attended grad school, I saw several BMAW couples and no AMWW couples…in fact, in 1983 non-white men talked to white women only when necessary…if they were their students, fellow faculty members, or if any disciplinary action was involved. I saw black women with black men, white women with white men and white men with everybody, but believe it or not, back in 1984, I saw ten different BMAW couples but only seven different WMAW couples in a school of 35,000! Then I went down south for a week long conference and at this southern school I saw five BMAW couples…but it was not evident that they were Asian until you came closer…the women were very dark skinned and hence did not get stares. But, then there was this light skinned Indian woman who like a Bollywood movie actor could pass for white and her Indian husband was very dark skinned…they were in an arranged marriage…and they were always mistaken for an interracial couple..their kid was beaten up at school and they were harrassed…dead animals were left on their door steps. Eventually, they left the area…last I heard they were in CA.

    Things have changed since then…lot more AWWM couples in both campuses now..but nary a WWAM couple..occassionally you will see one….but still a one way street…like the Brits working abroad dont like foreigners working in their country.

  45. Fred
    Fred April 24, 2014 at 12:22 am | | Reply

    @ David.

    Your anecdote of your observation in the southern school is quite interesting. When I was younger, among the mixed race couples, a great proportion of them was comprised of white men with other races. I did not experience any harassment during any time when I was with my white Brazailian wife. I was not too surprised to hear about the darker skinned Indian man married to a lighter skin Indian woman both of whom faced harassment in the southern states. But I think that if you are in love, forget race, forget the others and simply concentrate on yourselves.

  46. David
    David April 24, 2014 at 8:23 pm | | Reply

    “I was not too surprised to hear about the darker skinned Indian man married to a lighter skin Indian woman both of whom faced harassment in the southern states.”

    More recently (2013) a dark skinned Indian man with a light skinned Indian woman turned up in a church to raise money for an orphanage in India…a couple of weeks later it triggered an anti-interracial couple rant from the pastor of the church…both of them were born in America with Biblical first and last names and their marriage was arranged, believe it or not…the video went viral in February 2104…the pastor is now very famous…he is Reverend Donny Reagan of the Happy Valley Church in Johnson City, TN and I happen to know the couple…

    http://www.christianpost.com/news/bro-donny-reagan-apologizes-church-explains-his-message-saying-hes-not-racist-he-simply-does-not-marry-interracially-114881/

  47. Mars
    Mars April 24, 2014 at 9:35 pm | | Reply

    White woman with Chinese husband reporting from Shanghai here…WMAF couples are everywhere here, and I can’t think of any other AMWF couples that I’ve met in person here. In fact, all my friends are WMAF couples. They all expressed surprise when they found out I was married to an Asian man. To me, it’s a no brainer, there is no one in the world hotter than my hubby 😉

    When I go to the park with our son, everyone is extrememly interested in the hunxue baobao…because we are such a rarity it’s almost like we’re animals in a zoo, with people snapping pictures everywhere. Well, maybe it’s because my son’s so darn cute too. My husband hates it (the picture taking, not the cuteness, haha).

    When they find out I can speak Chinese, it opens a floodgate of questions…and one of them is always, “So you husband must be a big boss, yes?” It’s funny the questions you get asked as a white woman married to a Chinese man in Shanghai.

  48. Laura
    Laura April 24, 2014 at 9:58 pm | | Reply

    @Mars,
    Here you have another couple! We also live in Shanghai and usually get some unusual questions, same style as yours.

  49. David
    David April 24, 2014 at 11:06 pm | | Reply

    I can see why you dont have too many AMWW couples in say Indiana or down south in the US…but many US WW abroad dont like to date Asian or any other non-white men, rich or otherwise. Back in 2010 some in the Singapore expat community set a young woman from Tennessee on a blind date with a son of a local millionaire..when she saw he was Chinese, he freaked out and ran out. Word got around and she was literally fired and sent back home to Bristol, TN…I still think someone was trying to get her fired because she really did not like to date outside white men.

  50. Fred
    Fred April 24, 2014 at 11:41 pm | | Reply

    @ David.

    “Back in 2010 some in the Singapore expat community set a young woman from Tennessee on a blind date with a son of a local millionaire..when she saw he was Chinese, he freaked out and ran out. Word got around and she was literally fired and sent back home to Bristol, TN”

    Why was she sent back to Tennessee when “he freaked out?” That fact that the man freaked out was his own doing and not the White girl; thus, it is inconceivable that the company fired her. Perhaps you can tell her to contact me and I can help her with a wrongful termination case. I would love to take case like this because she did nothing wrong by showing up and if the man freaked out and did not like her and she was fired for it, then it is a great wrongful termination case.

    Fred

  51. Fred
    Fred April 24, 2014 at 11:50 pm | | Reply

    @ Mars and @ Laura.

    You both mentioned that you received a lot of stares and questions. It is quite interesting that you mention these occurences. When my wife, my 2 children and I were in H.K. several weeks ago, we had some people stare at us and some questions as well (not a lot). For example, when my mom, my half-brother, my wife, my 2 children and I were at a local McDonalds in H.K., an elderly Chinese couple complimented me and my wife for having a boy (dragon) and a girl (phoenix) and their beauty. They wanted to know how it was possible that a local Chinese man can marry a foreigner, as they assumed that I was local because they heard me speak my native Cantonese flawlessly with my mom and my half-brother. I replied by saying that I was in fact a foreigner with U.S. passport. They were shocked but happy for us. Then there were several other times when we were dining at a local restaurant when my wife and our children were stared at, but no one stared at me or my mom or half-brother. All the stares were directed at my wife and our 2 mixed race children. On yet another separate occasion, when I was holding my wife’s hands inside a shopping mall and my mom was perhaps 15 feet behind us, my mom heard these 2 Chinese men (with Mainland accents) talk and one said to each other something like, “Look! Did you just see that Chinese man over there holding hands witha ‘gwei bo

    1. Fred
      Fred April 25, 2014 at 12:48 am | | Reply

      Oopps! I pressed the wrong button and prematurely submitted my comments before I could complete them. I wanted to write:

      ….’gwei poa'” and then they were amazed and stared from behind our backs not knowing that my mom saw and heard them.

      It seemed that some Chinese cannot believe that one of their own is paired with a foreigner. I just do not understand the “buzz” arising out of a pairing between a Chinese person and a foreigner. In the U.S. I see mixed race couples many times and I do not even give it a second thought or look. I guess when it is a rarity as Jocelyn describes, then it generates some attention.

      Fred

  52. David
    David April 25, 2014 at 12:22 am | | Reply

    My spelling error…should have read she freaked out and ran out of the restaurant..sorry!

  53. David
    David April 25, 2014 at 12:38 am | | Reply

    One more point…until ABC’s John Qunniones does a What Would You Do episode with AWWM and AMWW couples both here in the US (in a place like Tuscaloosa, AL or Athens, GA) and in places like Hong Kong we will never find out about the depth of racism in either parts of the world.

  54. David
    David April 25, 2014 at 1:31 am | | Reply

    This link is for Fred….

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/04/okcupid_and_race_is_it_racist_to_date_only_people_of_your_own_race.html

    “In a somewhat similar vein, one of OkCupid’s questions reads as follows: “Would you strongly prefer to go out with someone of your own skin color/racial background?” I was struck by the not inconsiderable number of people who answered “yes”—including some people I know “in real life,” many of whom are hilariously self-righteous about their enlightened political views.”

    Ran into this young woman two years ago on a trip from Singapore to the US…she was complaining about Filipina maids marrying American men….and told me how she always dated WASP…then I asked her whether she was voting for Romney…she nearly strangled me…she had always voted Dem and she voted for Obama in 2008 and was voting for him again. She was from California..and had two little girls and a small son…guess what she is teaching them now!!

    1. Fred
      Fred April 25, 2014 at 2:23 am | | Reply

      @ David.

      Firstly, thanks for the link about racial profiling and preferences in dating.

      Secondly, you wrote:

      “Ran into this young woman two years ago on a trip from Singapore to the US…she was complaining about Filipina maids marrying American men….and told me how she always dated WASP…then I asked her whether she was voting for Romney…she nearly strangled me…she had always voted Dem and she voted for Obama in 2008 and was voting for him again. She was from California..and had two little girls and a small son…guess what she is teaching them now!!”

      In response to your comments, I ask:

      1) are you certain that she was complaining or was she making just a comment based on observation? As you know, I wrote about my observation that there was a lopsided amount of WM/AW pairings in H.K. in comparison to the AM/WW counterpart. I was just noting an observation and not complaining. So, you could have mistaken her comments as a complaint when she could have just been sharing an observation to you, just as I was sharing my personal observations in my post.

      2) How do you know that she will not change her mind and won’t give a non-WASP or non-white man a chance? After all, when I was younger I wanted to date and marry only a Chinese or another ethnic Asian girl such as Japanese. Yet in time, I changed and went after a non-Asian woman and now I am married to a white Brazilian lady. So, you should have not given up and you should have asked her out on a date, coaxed her a little more, and see her response. Was she pretty? If so, then it was worth an attempt at picking her up.

      Fred

  55. David
    David April 25, 2014 at 4:24 am | | Reply

    1. More of a gossip than complain. At 3:00 PM in every afternoon US and other English speaking housewives, almost all of them white sit and gossip about which white guy went with which local woman…so I think it is gossip and laughter at the couple’s expense.

    2. She is married…hope she stays married…more concerned about what she teaches her kids.

    1. Fred
      Fred April 25, 2014 at 4:30 am | | Reply

      @ David.

      With regard to your response to # 2, I too hope that she does not teach her children to be prejudiced against other people. Even though she was married, you could have posed the question as a hypothetical and ask, “Had you not been married, would you have given an Asian man a chance?”

      Fred

  56. Mars
    Mars April 25, 2014 at 9:54 am | | Reply

    @Laura

    We should do our own informal surveys in Shanghai and compare by what district we live in!

    @Fred

    Yes, we’ve gotten used to the attention now and people are so friendly and curious, it’s hard to be offended. I would venture to say that we saw more AMWF couples back in our home area of Chicago than we do here! I always get excited when I see an AMWF couple and do a quiet “yes” with a fist pump for Team AMWF.

    1. Erik
      Erik May 28, 2014 at 12:00 pm | | Reply

      @Mars, My gf and I are AMWF living in Chicago. I went to school in Boston and visit friends on the west coast frequently, and I must say I have never seen as many amwf couples than here in Chicago. When it’s nice, we take a stroll in the loop or along the lake, and we see a minimum of 2 other couples. Two weekends ago we saw a record of 6 other distinct couples. We squeeze each other’s hand and say “Yes! AMWF!” Granted, we still see way more WMAF couples, but good for them too, we shouldn’t judge them or think they’re “lower quality” in any way.

      1. Mars
        Mars May 31, 2014 at 9:04 pm | | Reply

        Agree with your observation, and we like our walks by the lake too 🙂

        FYI to everyone, the data from Shanghai is being collected…I will be sharing the results soon on sightings of AMWF couples versus AFWM couples soon!

    2. Erik
      Erik May 28, 2014 at 12:02 pm | | Reply

      @Mars, My gf and I are AMWF living in Chicago. I went to school in Boston and visit friends on the west coast frequently, and I must say I have never seen as many amwf couples than here in Chicago. When it’s nice, we take a stroll in the loop or along the lake, and we see a minimum of 2 other couples. Two weekends ago we saw a record of 6 other distinct couples. We squeeze each other’s hand and say “Yes! AMWF!” Granted, we still see way more WMAF couples, but good for them too, we shouldn’t judge them or think they’re “lower quality” in any way.

      @Jocelyn posted a bunch of blogs a while back, and perusing through them, it was interesting to see many of the women had roots in Chicago or the midwest in general.

  57. fred=manny?
    fred=manny? April 25, 2014 at 9:56 am | | Reply

    Is Manny an alter ego of Fred?

  58. Laura
    Laura April 25, 2014 at 9:58 am | | Reply

    @Mars,
    I live in Jiading, and my survey would be empty.
    😉

  59. Mars
    Mars April 25, 2014 at 10:30 am | | Reply

    @Laura

    Whoa, you are way up there. I’m in Changning…I can tell you I know I’ve personally know 15 WMAF couples and have seen many more. I now recall seeing one other AMWF couple in the park with their baby.

    So far the score isn’t looking good.

  60. David
    David April 25, 2014 at 8:31 pm | | Reply

    ““Had you not been married, would you have given an Asian man a chance?” ”

    I already have her answer from her body language and especially her nose language…it is not difficult if you have been in the diplomatic circles or have worked in international organizations….you dont ask those questions…you sort of act as a psychologist and figure it out.

  61. David
    David April 25, 2014 at 8:34 pm | | Reply

    “I would venture to say that we saw more AMWF couples back in our home area of Chicago than we do here! I always get excited when I see an AMWF couple and do a quiet “yes” with a fist pump for Team AMWF.”

    But, anecdotal evidence indicates that other than in Hawaii the trend seems to be reversing…more AMWW couples prefer Asia these days…Jocelyn and the Texan in Tokyo are just two examples of this reversed trend…and what you see in Chicago could also be that the AM was born in the US and probably has no other place to go yet….see a lot of Aussie born Asians on media these days in Singapore…at least with an Aussie accent.

  62. Rene
    Rene April 25, 2014 at 10:42 pm | | Reply

    I’m a western woman married to a Chinese man. We’ve lived in Shanghai for over a year now and I can seriously count on one hand how many AM/WW couples I’ve seen in Shanghai over that time period. We travel often in mainland China and it’s very scarce to see. Mind you, out of the handful we’ve seen at least 1 couple were just tourists. We see plenty of Asian women with foreign men ~ but not the other way around. Quite frankly, people are shocked when they see us together! Just the other day when I was paying my phone bill and they found out I was married to a Chinese man they kept asking “You are married to a Chinese man?? From China?? A Chinese man? How???” LOL! We get a lot of looks and questions but the same people wouldn’t give a second glance to an Asian woman with a foreign boyfriend/husband. It doesn’t bother us any, though! I love living here in China and I love being with my husband. 🙂

    We’ve also been to Hong Kong a lot and it’s definitely more likely to see a AM/WW couple there than in the mainland.

  63. Fred
    Fred April 26, 2014 at 7:06 am | | Reply

    @ Mars, Rene and Laura.

    Given all of your comments, I feel so inpsired that I will do yet another survey in my part of town in the Los Angeles area this weekend and then I shall report the results to everyone. I suspect, however, that our team will fare much better in the U.S. as AMs here have more exposure to WFs and are more likely to accept WFs than the men in traditional China. So stayed tuned.

    Fred

  64. Michael in Singapore
    Michael in Singapore April 28, 2014 at 7:46 pm | | Reply

    @Fred…

    Greetings from Singapore. Appearances are deceptive, at least in one prominent LA case which is being covered extensively all over the world…granted this is about black men and not Asian men, but perhaps you can interpolate….I am not a racist, I have a black girlfriend, but I tell her not to bring any of her black friends to my games…..

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/magic-johnson-on-donald-sterling—he-shouldn-t-own-a-team-anymore—-video-173824783.html

    Yeah, you will find a large number of Asian-white couples, but do we really know what they are thinking…granted white men dating non-white women are more likely to display this pathology than white women dating non-white men…but them again, I think white women are very honest…if they are really racist they will not date any non-white men, and some extreme racist white women will consider such unions unnatural. One has to figure out how many white women who wont date Asian men date Hispanics or blacks…my bet is not many…may be about 2%. After recent rantings from Cliven Bundy of Nevada and Sterling of LA Clippers, I am convinced that race is a major issue in America as David says. Never been to Alabama and dont intend to visit especially after the recent events involving the sororities at the University of Alabama…just convinced a young Chinese Singaporean lady not to go there, but to go to Oregon instead, despite the bad weather in the latter. I also lived in Texas for a while in the late 1990s…and again in 2009…some things have changed but much stays the same, especially in and around Jasper.

  65. Sam
    Sam May 12, 2014 at 11:10 am | | Reply

    I was in Lisbon, Portugal for ten days until May 9. Saw five AWWM couples, two AWBM couples and zero AMWW couples. During the past three months in the DC area saw eighteen AWWM couples, seven AWBM couples and one AMWW couple.

  66. Fred
    Fred May 13, 2014 at 5:57 am | | Reply

    @ Sam. Thanks for the field report. If you are an AM invovled with a WM, then I welcome you to the “few and lonely” club of AM/WW.

  67. Drusilla
    Drusilla May 14, 2014 at 11:54 am | | Reply

    I’ve gotta agree – a AM/WF couple in Hong Kong is viewed as something utterly weird.

    Backstory – I went to law school in a small town in Ontario. I met my HK-born, Canadian-raised boyfriend there. We’ve been together 9 years. Even in small-town Ontario, we weren’t that unusual – the majority of Asian boys in law school had white girlfriends, and vice versa. In Canada, I’ve never been stared at or had comments about dating an Asian.

    THEN I went to Hong Kong to visit his granny. Wow. Talk about culture shock! People openly gawked at us EVERYWHERE. Starbucks in North Point – the grannies stared at us through the front window. LKF, people gawked at us while we danced together at the clubs. His relatives asked if we thought our kids would look white or Chinese.

    It’s bizarre. In small-town Ontario where there are virtually no Asians, we weren’t anything interesting. Yet in a place where there is a huge population of white people mingling with Cantonese people, we were an oddity.

  68. David
    David May 14, 2014 at 11:59 pm | | Reply

    @Fred…after several months finally saw an AM-WW couple in the bus yesterday in Washington DC.

    @Druissilla..

    “In Canada, I’ve never been stared at or had comments about dating an Asian. ”

    Have you ever been with your bf to Alberta?

    “His relatives asked if we thought our kids would look white or Chinese. ”

    Could be either. But, high probability your kids would be smarter than average, and even super-smart….this is based on stats, not on stereotype or prejudice.

  69. Fred
    Fred May 15, 2014 at 6:52 am | | Reply

    @ Drusilla.

    Thanks for sharing your story, but were you able to count the number of WM/AW pairings versus AM/WW pairings just as I did when I reporeted 114 to 6? I am interested in the stats also.

    Yes, I agree that there is some staring and gwaking. I did not notice too much. My mother recounted some incidents for me. When she was approx. 15 meters behind me and my wife, 2 Chinese men passed us by and then they turned their heads and one man told the other to look at that Chinese man (referring to me) with that White lady holding hands. I did not hear them talk but my mom heard them and reported it to me. Then on 2 other occasions and once again my mom was walking behind me and my wife and my wife and I were hold hands, a Chinese lady passed us and then the Chinese lady turned her head to stare at us some more. I just cannot understand how people cannot get over the fact that a Chinese man can be with a Western woman. I do not think it is strange or odd but some Chinese people think otherwise. Yet, they do not give a “crap” when a Western man is holding hands with a Chinese girl. I cannot figure out the mentality of the people in China.

  70. xaspireonfirex
    xaspireonfirex May 15, 2014 at 6:10 pm | | Reply

    Although I suspect most of us in interracial relationships are not busying ourselves with the topic of “race” every living moment of every day, until society for the most part understands that people can find love and meaningful companionship outside of their race, we will all continue to *see* mixed couples – we stand out, even (and perhaps especially) to each other, because for the most part, we’re not a reflection of the demographic around us and because as long as some people remain unable to truly accept us, many of us will instinctively identify with each other – I suppose it’s a safety net of sorts?
    I’m sure someone is probably doing proper research on this topic, but the question of how commonplace particular interracial pairings are probably has a lot to do with the degree of acceptance/understanding within the communities in question? I recently took a career break and travelled throughout Asia with my British-born Indian partner (I’m Caucasian). The most casual observer would agree that what Fred found in Hong Kong is true throughout the region – WW/AM is atypical of mixed-race relationships. However, in one sub-group I sometimes think this is not the case: I headed over here via a tweet from Lauren, of English Wife, Indian Life and although it seems (from my observance, at least) a minority amongst interracial relationships, there is a thriving online community of white women in relationships with South Asian men … but both online and in real life, the WM/AW combination is less common still where South Asians are concerned. I expect we are all probably too painfully aware and too bored of racial stereotypes to labour the point here, but maybe societal pressures weigh more heavily on, for example, Chinese men, just as they seem to on South Asian women?
    In any case, @Fred, I could add another to your “team” – my best friend (HK Chinese) lives in HK with her white SO *fist pump* 😉

  71. David
    David May 15, 2014 at 7:51 pm | | Reply

    Fred:

    I will be in Singapore and Malaysia next month and if you continue to keep this board alive, I will report on the situation there. For now, here in the DC area, I am seeing more BMAW couples than AMWW couples.

  72. David
    David May 15, 2014 at 8:10 pm | | Reply

    “but both online and in real life, the WM/AW combination is less common still where South Asians are concerned.”

    @xaspireonfirex

    In the late 1940s and until the early 1960s there was a big surge in South Asian Men-White women couples in the US…because otherwise you did not get to stay in this country, period…in many states it was illegal..and there were occassions where some rich South Asian men paid off the white female’s parents in the form of “Blood-Mixing” money to stop them from sending the police after the couple. What changed? The 1965 Immigration Act…the Family Re-unification was expanded to include brothers and sisters of US citizens..and refined racist groups such as the Daughters of American Revolution and even the Daughters of the Confederacy supported the move because they were sick and tired of seeing South Asian men with white women…they wanted to make sure that there was enough supply of South Asian women in the country, so that they dont have to marry white women….and the proportion of South Asian men marrying white women fell sharply…although it is higher than the other way round, it still is low.

    Yet, as a person with family connections in both South and East Asia, I have to say it is more acceptable for a WW to marry a South Asian male. Recently a young white woman who plays cricket for England tweeted in jest to an Indian cricketer to marry her and another English cricketer joined the conversation. No one thought much about this in India…however, in England the reaction was not that great to put it mildly and for a few weeks the two young ladies were not heard from other than by tweet…no public appearances, no press conferences and were not even seen in their beautiful English country towns and their folks did not answer any questions. Needless to say nowadays in the UK and Germany it is near impossible to get a resident or spousal visa if a citizen marries a foreigner whether white or non-white, does not matter. A white American woman married to an Englishman had to move with him back to the US because of backlogs extending three years…another English doctor married to a Thai nurse had to move to Singapore and now plans to move to Australia. A German woman who married an Indian doctor works with me here in the US because her husband despite being a prominent neurosurgeon could not get a visa as he did not pass German fluency. And Japanese men married to English women are particularly targeted…many dont get visas despite having Phds and MBAs from even British universities. UK unemployment is falling not because they are creating jobs but because people drop out of the UK labor force by moving abroad. So there are a lot of hassles in such marriages.

  73. David
    David May 15, 2014 at 8:17 pm | | Reply

    http://englishwifeindianlife.com/

    And Fred…you will notice one thing common among the Indian men who marry white women…they have movie actor good looks and they are pretty much light skinned…they can pass for an Italian, Portuguese or some Mediterranean countries…even the Indian cricketer targeted by the white English female cricketers is very light skinned by Indian standards and could easily get a role in Bollywood…you will see a rage WWAM couple where the guy is dark…but on blogs other than Ali Rae of Mercy Ships I must admit I have not seen any…so if you folks see any such couples where a dark skinned South Asian is with a White person, please do post the link.

  74. Fred
    Fred May 16, 2014 at 12:54 am | | Reply

    @ David.

    I agree to keep this post and its comment alive with discussion if you report back after your trip to and fro Singapore and Malaysia and announce the stats between WM/AW and AM/WW pairings. I want to see your field report.

    Can you provide the link (news) about the British woman who courted an Indian cricket player and the criticisms that she took? I am interested in seeing this news about her woes.

    Thanks.

    Fred

  75. MM
    MM May 19, 2014 at 3:27 pm | | Reply

    I’ve lived in Shanghai 6 years, I would see an AM/WF couple once a year (if that) but this year and in the same month I saw 3 AM/WF couples , I was happy and giving high fives in my mind.

  76. Fred
    Fred May 20, 2014 at 4:46 am | | Reply

    @ MM.

    Thanks for your report. You wrote that you saw 3 AM/WW pairings in a month. How many WM/AW pairsing did you see? I wanted to see the comparison or proportion between WM/AW and AM/WW. Please advise.
    Thanks.

    Fred

  77. MM
    MM May 20, 2014 at 10:04 am | | Reply

    Hi Fred

    On average you can see 2 to 3 WM/AW pairing on the streets of Shanghai per day ( maybe more depending on where and when). Where as AM/WW pairing you are lucky to see 2 or 3 per year .

    I known of a number of WW ( and I am one of them) who have had or would like to have relationships with Chinese men but for what ever reasons find it difficult.

    But in saying this I feel in the past 6 years that beliefs and attitudes are changing or relaxing. This year during CNY there was a news report on the amount of young people applying for marriage certificates, it was reported that the agencies had a higher number of AM/WW applying for certificates than any other year. ( sorry don’t have actual figures)

  78. D-Maybe
    D-Maybe May 20, 2014 at 1:44 pm | | Reply

    @MM,

    When you say that beliefs and attitudes are changing or relaxing, are you referring to Chinese men or white women?

  79. David
    David May 21, 2014 at 12:34 am | | Reply

    Report from DC for the past five days…two AWWM couples, two AWBM couples and zero AMWW couple.

  80. Fred
    Fred May 21, 2014 at 2:11 am | | Reply

    @ MM.

    Thank you for your report on the stats. I wish you well in your search for a relationship with a Chinese man. I am sorry to read that you found it difficult to have such a relationship with them, but it always seemed like the case for us Asian boys also. When I was younger and decided that I wanted to date Western women, I too found it difficult as I was turned down over and over again. Prior to making that decision, I did not have much problem dating Asian women (as I am an AM). But when I decided to date WW, it was so hard that I did not know what to do or where to go even though in the U.S. where I live I am surrounded by Westerners everywhere.

    Fred

  81. David
    David May 21, 2014 at 4:37 am | | Reply

    @Fred…when I was younger back in the 1970s an Asian female will get into serious trouble for being with a white male, let alone the other way around. You were lucky you were only rejected…I have seen cases where Asian men have been beaten up for asking a white woman out.

  82. Fred
    Fred May 21, 2014 at 4:42 am | | Reply

    @ David.

    Well, I find it difficult to believe that one can be physically assaulted for asking a WW out on a date. I guess I grew up at a different time and not during the 1950 and before. When did you see an AM get beaten up for asking a WW out?

  83. David
    David May 22, 2014 at 10:49 pm | | Reply

    “When did you see an AM get beaten up for asking a WW out?”

    Did not see any..but heard of some in Australia…There was a spate of violence against Indian male students in Australia…and word on the street was that some were with white women or dating white women. Some say that some of it was set-up. In the US, all I know is a visceral reaction to same race South Asian couples…a dark skinned Tamil from South India married to a very light skinned Kashmiri from north India mistaken for an interracial couple in Indiana..kids harrassed and they were run out of town in 1984. In 2002 an Indian doctor under a Conrad 30 program in Southern Virginia got beat up because they thought he was black who was living with a white woman…actually his wife is Indian..pretty light skinned. And last year, a missionary Indian-American couple one dark skinned and one light skinned was raising money in Tennessee which a week later led to a visceral reaction against multiracial couples by a pastor. And in 2012 in Oxford, MS a brown skinned Turkins student was chased by a mob after the elections, but got away. He was with his Turkish wife, who is blonde, blue-eyed and white…so there is anecdotal evidence.

    Asian men dont like to ask white women out because: (1) they have problems asking Asian women out for fear of rejection and there is plenty of racism between Asian ethnicities. For instance, a Japanese family I knew disowned their daughter for marrying Chinese, but the other daughter who married white is treated like a queen..interestingly the white side of the family did not accept her (mormons). It is a matter of hierarchy, disgusting as it may be; (2) they have problems with white women…some people think it is that Asian men, to put it mildly, are less well endowed…but I think that the same women who reject Asian men, at least in most cases wont sit next to a non-white man (black included) let alone date, introduce him to her family or marry one..even if she is not prejudiced, she is probably afraid of her family; (3) Asian men are pretty smart…they read the internet…and stories such as those involving interracial couples in towns such as Jasper, TX do not help the situation…yes they are plain afraid of violence themselves; and (4) there is a fear of loosing face, which is still big in Asia.

    Back in the early 1990s..a Chinese-American graduate student from Ivy League showed up in the Jenny Jones show with his “white girlfriend” to irritate her racist parents…they decided to play along because Jenny Jones gave them $2,000 to appear on the show….her mother was vehement that she will never accept the Chinese-American guy even if he is a multi-millionaire…years later he claimed that the whole thing was a set-up…nothing bad happened but two days later after the show involving a secret admirer, a white guy shot his admirer dead…cannot remember whether the admirer was a guy or a non-white woman…someone can check that out…in other words, our present day Asian-American Professor could have been very lucky that her old man did not come with a gun!

  84. Fred
    Fred May 23, 2014 at 12:39 am | | Reply

    @ David.

    Wow! I had no idea of such hatred and violence between the races in the U.S. I have heard of some incidents of violence between the races but not to the extent that you described. Perhaps they are isolated incidents and inflated by the media and then once you hear about them, they became ingrained in peoples minds; then they arrive at the conclusion that hatred is everywhere. In my personal experience, I have not been attacked or ridiculed for being with my White Brazilian wife. Before I was married, I have been rejected in the past based on race and non-racial reasons when I approached non-Asian girls for dates. But then again I have received a certain amount of positive response also (not based on race).

    Mr. David, what was your experience dating non-Asian women? Were you able to get any dates with any non-Asian women? Any negative responses? Any positive responses? What methods did you use? Please advise.

    Fred

  85. David
    David May 23, 2014 at 3:17 am | | Reply

    @Fred…mostly in the US South, particularly in Alabama….I thought you lived in LA. Here are two news items on Alabama where blacks and whites call each other racists….

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/annasoldner/university-of-alabamas-sororities-remain-mostly-segregated

    and this…

    http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/05/post_83.html

    Then we have Jasper, Texas…

    http://uhurunews.com/story?resource_name=emmett-till-style-lynching-in-texas-the-murder-of-alfred-wright

    and on the lighter side…I think this couple lives in Korea perhaps with their supersmart girls….call it a stereotype but in many cases it is very true based on stats….far from it all….

  86. MM
    MM May 23, 2014 at 2:36 pm | | Reply

    @D-Maybe

    I think it’s both. The couples I see I would say are in their mid 20’s to early 30’s .

  87. Fred
    Fred June 5, 2014 at 12:36 am | | Reply

    Hi David.

    Thank you for sharing those videos of incidents of discrimination. I heard that in Honk Kong a inflammatory incident happened whereby several Western American men “stole” a Chinese girlfried right in front of her Chinese boyfriend. Here is the video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl0D4udjNqc

    It is a little sad but funny.

    Fred

    1. Mars
      Mars June 8, 2014 at 9:17 pm | | Reply

      This video is horrible…it makes me want to vomit. The poor guy, just standing helplessly by and those uncaring expats staging the whole thing. When the Chinese girl kissed the white guy while still holding onto her boyfriend’s hand, the bile literally rose in my throat.

      I wish I could unsee this ;_;

      1. Fred
        Fred June 10, 2014 at 5:17 am | | Reply

        @ Mars.

        I agree with you that it was horrible but I did not have the same sense of vomiting bile as you did. To a certain extent I laughed a little bit at the Chinese man who did nothing to defend himself or his Chinese girlfriend. I think the Chinese man did not know what to do or what to say because no one can reasonably exepect another person (especially from a foreigner) to be so bold and dastardely as to “seduce or steal” another man’s girlfriend right in front of the other man’s nose. I think that if I were in the Chinese man’s shoes during my youthful days, I would not have know what to do or what to say and would have lost my Chinese girlfried just as he did. Now I know how to defend myself and my girl if that same happens again.

        Fred

        1. Mars
          Mars June 10, 2014 at 5:25 am | | Reply

          @ Fred

          Agreed the guy should have stood up more. However, don’t really think that girl is worth much if she can be stolen so easily. He’s better off without her and finding someone sincere. A good girlfriend wouldn’t need her boyfriend to stop the foreigner in that situation…she would have shut that guy down herself! And hard.

          Did you see the results from the Shanghai data I posted?

          1. Fred
            Fred June 10, 2014 at 5:43 am |

            @ Mars.

            I praise you highly for not discriminating against us Chinese as you enlightened yourself by dating and then marrying a Chinese man. You rock, American girl!!!!!

            I did not see the post at the time I wrote the above. I will see in just 1 minute below and then respond accordingly.

            P.S.: I presume you are an American White girl. Am I correct?

            Fred

  88. David in Singapore
    David in Singapore June 7, 2014 at 7:25 am | | Reply

    Fred:

    Now in Singapore. Early morning on Saturday June 7 here in Singapore. The only AMWW couple I saw to this point from all the way in DC to here in Singapore was from your wife’s country….and that is if you will call a woman of Turkish-Syrian origin white. The Mississippians will call her that for during the riots of the Obama elections, they chased after a Turkish couple thinking they were interracial…the wife looked like a sorority girl and the guy looked like an Indian with olive skin. Going back to my travel, the Brazilian is third generation Japanese and his wife is essentially a white looking middle easterner, blonde and blue eyed. Other than that, I have seen 16 AWWM couples so far since June 2 extending from Washington DC to Singapore, one Brazilian WWAM couple, and six BMAW couples, two BWWM couples (in CA) and two WWBM couples, zero AMBW couples. I am on the road till June 24 and will keep you informed. But this point BMAW (I am not talking about the South Asian male, who look very dark with the Chinese women here in Singapore although Americans tend to mistake them for BMAW couples) couples beat the WWAM couples by a ratio of five to one…I mean BMAW couples. Granted I did not stay in Los Angeles for more than 24 hours. It does not look good right now.

    1. Fred
      Fred June 10, 2014 at 5:38 am | | Reply

      Hi “David In Singapore”

      Thanks for the stats. Keep on surveying and then give me the final numbers.

      Fred

  89. Mars
    Mars June 8, 2014 at 9:10 pm | | Reply

    Data collection from Shanghai complete. Over a two week period my sister and I went to many different locations while she was visiting. Results were as follows:

    AFWM couples – 50
    AMWF couples -3

    Not as striking numbers as Fred, but still remarkably unbalanced. My husband and I are one couple. I saw the second couple an hour into the first day, giving me hope. However, I did not see another AMWF couple until we we leaving the park on our final day.

  90. Fred
    Fred June 10, 2014 at 5:49 am | | Reply

    @ Mars.

    Your statistics do not vary with mine too much. I counted 114 (WM/AW) versus 6 AM/WW. So, the proportion is about the same. If we were to double yours, then you will have 100 to 6. Certainly the stats are not inconsistent between Hong Kong and your location (i.e. Shanghai — I think?).
    Thanks for the survey. You rock, White American girl!!!!!!!

    Fred

    1. Mars
      Mars June 10, 2014 at 6:26 am | | Reply

      @Fred You are funny! Spot on, white American girl here.

      Yes, if you double it roughly the same, but I’m surprised in the same amount of time (I think you collected info for two weeks as well, right?) that Shanghai couples were half of Hong Kong. Why the big difference in sheer numbers? Are they not equally considered large, international cities?

      @Laura your comment is so spot on…you can’t steal someone who doesn’t want to be stolen…I agree, the whole video is sad and disgusting.

      1. Fred
        Fred June 10, 2014 at 6:57 am | | Reply

        @ Mars.

        Yes, you are right that I was in H.K. for about 11 days. I do not know why my numbers doubled yours. Perhaps H.K. contained more foreigners than Shanghai and this was why. Or perphas Asian girls in H.K. were more accepting of Western men as H.K. had a longer history of exposure to Westerners than Shanghai. Or perhaps because H.K. had more Filipinas than Shanghai. I counted Filipinas as well because girls from the Phillipines are Asian girls as well.

        Keep on rocking, white American girl. Whenever I see an AM/WW couple, I pump my fist and say “oh yes, baby, and chalk one up for our team!”

        Fred

  91. Laura
    Laura June 10, 2014 at 6:10 am | | Reply

    In that situation I would blame the three of them
    The foreign guy for what he did despite knowing she was with someone else
    The girl for been too easy. In fact, you can’t steal a person, and she doesn’t seem unhappy about it. He is not forcing here she is just not moving from his lap.
    Her date, for been so sad. In that video the three of them make me feel disgusted.
    Three sad people.

    1. Fred
      Fred June 10, 2014 at 7:02 am | | Reply

      @ Laura.

      I, too, am in agreement with you that a girl cannot be stolen if she does not wish to be. I suspect that the Chinese man and his floosy Chinese girlfriend had a flimsy relationship in the first place and this was why she was so susceptible to be swept away by the White American man.

      I also felt a bit of sadness for them. Keep up the greatness, Laura.

      Fred

  92. Laura
    Laura June 10, 2014 at 7:24 am | | Reply

    A woman can be stolen, but this one is not stolen, she is willingly following him and holding hands.

    1. Fred
      Fred June 10, 2014 at 7:39 am | | Reply

      @ Laura.

      When you wrote that “a woman can be stolen” I can only think of 2 scenrios where this is true. If the man uses deception or force (eg. gun or knife), then he can physically steal her. But if he wants to steal her heart, she has to be a willing participant. I believe that in the above video the Chinese girl was consenting to go with the White American man made worse by the fact that the Chinese boyfriend just simply did nothing to defend his interest in her. He (the Chinese man) gave his back to the girl while holding her hand and giving his back to the girl shows disinterest or neglect as he exhibited negative body language. The White American man was facing her, kissing her, and embracing the girl to satisfy his lust and prurience while exciting her at the same time. The American man was using at least the right techniques to seduce the Chinese girl (even though he was very disrepectful by stealing her from another man).

      I am glad that I neither know men and women like those in the video, nor do I want to know such people.

      Fred

  93. Laura
    Laura June 10, 2014 at 7:52 am | | Reply

    Well I know a person who was stolen without a gun or a knife, brutal physical force.

    I think that in the video he was not stealing her heart, but she was more interested in leaving with him.

    Anyway, I don’t really mind. I think the three of them now have portrayed a very sad image of themselves.

    1. Fred
      Fred June 11, 2014 at 2:05 am | | Reply

      @ Laura.

      By the way, you rock also, White Spanish lady!

      Fred

  94. David in Singapore
    David in Singapore June 10, 2014 at 10:55 am | | Reply

    Update. 163 East Asian-South Asian couples here in Singapore out of which 104 EA woman with SA man and the rest the other way around. 0 AMWW couple, 2 BMAW couples, 0 BWAM couples and 12 AWWM couples. Seems that unlike US Singapore is a very integrated society, where the minority south Asians are well integrated and accepted in society particularly in the Christian community. Would you ever see as many non-white-white couples in America even of a AWWM persuasion other than probably in Hawaii? Would you see it in Alabama?

  95. David in Singapore
    David in Singapore June 10, 2014 at 1:11 pm | | Reply

    May be of interest…Are Asians really white? If so why aren’t white women accepting offers of date from Asian men?

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/05/29/how-the-asians-became-white/

    Asians are white when whites find it convenient…and not otherwise.

  96. Fred
    Fred June 11, 2014 at 2:06 am | | Reply

    @ David.
    Thanks for sharing the stats. Take care.

    Fred

  97. Laura
    Laura June 11, 2014 at 5:22 am | | Reply

    @Fred,
    That sounded weird. Finding a way to describe the amount of melanin to address me.
    “White Spanish lady”…?

    Not used to “hear” color terminology for addressing someone’s race..

    X, you rock it, black (insert nationality) lady…?

    You asked me few times if someone has ever been disrespectful because I am a “latino”. Now I can say.. somehow yes.

    1. Fred
      Fred June 11, 2014 at 8:40 am | | Reply

      @ Laura.

      Oops. I was trying to praise you, girl. No offense intended. Sorry for the mishap. Take care.
      Fred

  98. David in Malaysia
    David in Malaysia June 13, 2014 at 1:02 pm | | Reply

    Greetings from Malaysia. Not even many East-South Asian couples here in the capital city of Malaysia. 0 AMWW couples, 0 AWWM couples, 0 BMAW couples, 1 BM-South Asian Woman couple…the SA woman is very dark and can pass for an African-American woman, and speaks Tamil and sitting about three chairs away from me at the internet cafe with her black boyfriend or husband. She speaks Tamil with the guy in charge of the cafe and he sounds more like black British….perhaps one of those couples who cannot get a visa for one spouse to the UK and they are stuck here in Malaysia or down in Singapore.

    The video on the white men stealing Asian women is interesting. Actually, there are a bunch of white expat American women from Alabama (actually one of them is from Lynchburg, VA but a sorority alumna from the University of Alabama) in Singapore and Malaysia who actually work the other side. They try to break up AWWM couples…of course they also try to break up AMWW couples, but that is of academic interest as they are very few and far between…from the past two days, I have a feeling that the AL sorority girls have pretty much succeeded here in Malaysia and unless I see one Asian-white couple of any persuasion, I have to begin thinking along those lines. They organize flirting with the white guy who is with AW similar to that of the video. Some woman is send to flirt and break the couple up. Of course, I have no video, but I think some day it will come out.

    Anyhow, their main goal is to keep Asian women out of white sororities back in Alabama…supposedly they told an Indian lady I know who works with one of them that they have enough people keeping black women out of white sororities…they are working the Asian leg of the agenda….and this while living in an Asian country…of course Manny will say that this does not occur often…what a joke. My stay in this area will end in four days. Will send a final report next week.

  99. fred
    fred June 14, 2014 at 12:41 am | | Reply

    @ David In Malaysia.

    Thanks for keeping me abreast of the survey as I enjoy having feedback from people like you. Are you certain that the white girls from Alabama will try to break up the AM/WW and/or WM/AF couples? This does not sound like anything that is senisible. After all, the Alabama girls would be spending time, risking arousing indignation, endangering their lives (eg. assault), and gaining no monetary value. All for what? Seeing a breakup is the only possible enjoyment out of the situation. Nevertheless, I would love to see a video of the organized flirting with the intention to cause a breakup between the WM/AW and/or AM/WW pairings —- if you have any.

    I have had very limited contact with people from Alabama. I can think of only 2 in my life. One Alabama white man is a fellow attorney and he seemed very nice to me; he greets me, talks to me and treated me very well. The seond one was a white girl (Heather) whom I met one time in a bar in Long Beach, CA when I was still single, and she danced with me and even spanked my butt once. I did not detect any trace of prejudice. But of course my experience was very limited. I guess I will be leary of people from Alabama more now.

    Take care and I look foward to seeing your fina survey.

    Fred

  100. David in Singapore
    David in Singapore June 14, 2014 at 5:05 pm | | Reply

    @Fred…try assaulting anyone in Singapore…I wish the assaulter all the best.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/annasoldner/university-of-alabamas-sororities-remain-mostly-segregated

    And the white alumna, some as young as 27 living here in Singapore and Malaysia operate with impunity to keep the policy…and keep Asian women out of white sororities.

  101. fred
    fred June 15, 2014 at 1:39 am | | Reply

    @ David In Singapore.

    What will happen if one tries to assault another in Singapore?

    It is interesting to know that those white alumnae ladies in Asia are trying to keep Asian women out of sororities in Singapore. Is the gov’t allowing this type of attempted racial seegration to permeate in Singapore? What is the singaporean gov’t doing about it, if anything at all?

    It is quite interesting to know that some Westerners who come to Asia and expect that we Asians have to be obsequious and follow their rules. I have heard of a story that a group of American men/vactioners (perhaps drunk at the time) in Shanghai several years ago one night were out and about demanding that they had a right to have Chinese girls come to their beckon call and to satisfy their every fantasy and whim. But according to the person (Chinese America man) who told me this story, no one around them were able to understand English except for the Chinese American man. Thus, they operated with impunity in the bar. The Chinese girls/patrons in the bar did not understand English and were just smiling and flirting away thinking that they were just having a good time together, while the American men were saying such ridiculous things to them. We will never know what the Chinese people in the bar would have done to them had they understood the American men. Nevertheless, it is interesting to hear such a story. And if Chinese men said such things in the U.S. in bar and the Americans understood them, I am anticipating the worse for the Chinese men.

    By the way here is a video of Western men getting Asian girls in Singapore:

  102. David in Singapore
    David in Singapore June 15, 2014 at 11:40 am | | Reply

    “It is interesting to know that those white alumnae ladies in Asia are trying to keep Asian women out of sororities in Singapore.”

    Not in Singapore, back in Alabama.

    “Is the gov’t allowing this type of attempted racial segregation to permeate in Singapore? What is the Singaporean gov’t doing about it, if anything at all?”

    No jurisdiction over what happens in Alabama.

    Another common method that these white women try to use is to try to break up the couple by introducing the AW to some AM…of course religion, culture, etc. does not matter. For instance, a white American woman from Texas and her white male friends were desperately trying to break up a Indian female-White male couple in Singapore a few years ago…she was very light skinned and damn near white and all the nonsense started when they found out she was Indian…she was of Christian faith, with a church going guy but these white folks were trying to break them up and trying to set her up with a Pakistani devout moslem, an Indian caste Hindu, etc…all because they are all South Asian…for some reason the excuse that “she looks like a South Asian” was not used here. So you have these females desperately trying to set up a Filipina catholic dating a white catholic from Michigan with a Japanese Buddhist or Malay Moslem because she looks like them…no cultural or religious sensitivity. Skin color is all that matters….and these Alabama women are here because their husbands are expats on fat salaries and they are eager to go back home to Virginia where their husbands are based…and get out of here. In these regard they are different from British or Aussie racists. There was a recent case of a white English woman of 22 rejected for a job as airline stewardess with Emirates because of psychological problems and she was pissed…of course her parents, brothers, sisters and probably herself voted for UKIP and don’t want anyone looking like her prospective bosses living near them…a One way streeters where whites believe that they should work on fat salaries in Asia but should not afford that benefit to Asians, ie., allowing Asians to work in white countries….all kinds of arguments are made…the services of citizens are needed in this country…we should not steal doctors from Singapore or China…they need them badly in those countries, etc…but it all comes down in this case not really to racism, but greed and selfishness….as these expats have no problem living next to wealthy upper class Asians…but let one of the kids from these families talk about going to UK…he or she will get lecture from these whites as to how badly their services are needed in this country…used to be that this response came when the person wanted to migrate to UK or Australia or some western country…but now you get the same response from many white Brits or Aussies when a Singaporean or Malaysian lets them know of the intention to go to Hong Kong or China…looks like these white folks are just afraid of competition.

  103. Fred
    Fred June 17, 2014 at 5:54 am | | Reply

    @ David In Singapore.

    Thanks for letting me know of the situation in Alabama. One day I think I will bring my family and travel through Alabama wherein I shall hold my wife’s (white lady) hand and kiss her to show some publc affection, and then I shall wait to see what the people will do. Do you think they will lynch me or ignore me?

    I am in agreement that people in general would love to have a high salary wherever they go or live, and it is not just limited to Westerners who are all too often accustomed to the high pay. I was told that in order to lure foreigners to China to work (such as to teach), you cannot offer him or her a mediocre salary because they will not go there. Thus, Chinese employers have no choice but to offer a higher salary. But the externality is that the foreigners will become too accustomed to the high pay and then they will demand more to renew their contract, while the local Chinese will view them with jealousy or admiration. If China ever becomes a first world country such as Japan, then things will be better for the Chinese and China will not have to offer the ridiculous high salary to attract foreign talent.

    Fred

  104. Angus Or
    Angus Or June 18, 2014 at 1:53 am | | Reply

    I ONLY saw a couple of AM/WF couples in Hong Kong during my 10 years back to HK from Vancouver, Canada.

    I think there is one where I live in Suburbs and I bump into them twice while walking towards the MTR station (they are walking in the opposite direction with groceries on hands and walk very closely).

    Yes, it is quite RARE in Hong Kong, you might sometimes sees them like the “needle in the hay stacks”, it is a rare gem. I remember seeing a couple of earlier on with two kids(one in the stroller and one walking by their side).

    It just give me the warm feeling when I see an AM/WF couple and I usually give them a smile of appreciation.

    That’s my findings in Hong Kong.

  105. David leaving Singapore
    David leaving Singapore June 18, 2014 at 4:31 am | | Reply

    On the last day in Singapore I saw three AMWW “couples”, but as they were in business attire, they may be on an official tea outing and not really couples.

  106. Fred
    Fred June 18, 2014 at 5:07 am | | Reply

    @ Angus and David.

    Thanks for your contribution. I am glad that my article has inspired some of you to submit your own surveys. I, too, feel validated when I see a rare AM/WF pairing once in awhile. Thanks for everyting everyone. To all of you, take care and good bye.
    Fred

  107. Darian
    Darian September 9, 2014 at 12:43 am | | Reply

    AMWF and AFWM will always be imbalanced. Even in NYC it’s I would maybe see 1 AMWF once every 3-4 months (usually very young couple). While AFWM you see at least 30-40 everyday. Honestly 80% of my Asian female friends all refuse to date Asian men. So Asian men can’t even date Asian girls forget girls of any other race, it’s getting worse and worse.

    Not only they refuse to date Asian men, they make fun of, talk down on them.
    I am Chinese, I am their good friend, even through I might not have any interest in them. It’s weird hearing them talk about it, like you’re not one of them. There is no logic in their words, ” You’re a great guy, girls should love you, because you’re my friend, but the other Asian men (referring to all Asian men she don’t personally know) are not good enough.

    At the end you can only laugh about it.

    Only way I can counter:
    Once a German female friend of mine invited to a art gallery opening, she invited a Korean German girl friend of hers (Her family moved to Germany when she was about 13 years old). Here I am being polite and social try to make her feel welcomed. I said “Hi, (My name is bla bla bla) do you come to these galleries often?” She answered: (Sorry, I don’t date Asian guys)
    I was shocked and amazed at how impolite she is.
    I answered: “Great! We have something in common. I don’t date Asian guys either” (the look on her face was priceless, I guess she realize what she said never process in her brain first.) I made sure the night was as uncomfortable for her as it was for me. I made many eye contacts with her with a light friendly smile. I over heard her talking to the group how she rejects everything Korean, and how “German” she is. Finally come dinner time, since I am the local New Yorker, I suggested the best place possible: Korean-town. Everybody else was German, they were very excited to try Korean food. I pushed all the ordering to her since she’s “Korean” I never enjoyed making someone’s night the worst time possible, but I enjoyed this one way too much.

  108. Fred
    Fred September 9, 2014 at 6:51 am | | Reply

    @ Darian.

    I loved your story and how you ridiculed the self-racist Korean girl who rejects her own kind. I am very familiar with such a scenario. I know around 10 Asian female attorneys of my peers who are either dating or are married to Western men. I would tease them by saying that they have a fascination for Western men. They would then vehemently deny this fact. Then I would respond by citing to the fact that the other 9 are married or are dating Western men. I believe that they were somehow the victims of racism and they, in order to gain acceptance, have to reject their own kind to gain the feeling that they are coequals among Westerners. I remember that when I was a small child I was ridculed for being only Chinese in my class. It was painful time for me, but I survived. I did not grow up hating Westerners or anyone though.

  109. Darian
    Darian September 9, 2014 at 10:31 pm | | Reply

    @Fred,

    I was on the same boat as you. I was only Asian in the whole school in Junior high. I was picked on and fought almost everyday until some kids became friends with me regardless of who I am and where I am from. They are now my closest friends.

    Adding to your research:

    I happened to be in Hong Kong one year ago for about 13-14 days (Sept/ Oct 2013).
    I did not notice any AMWF couple, while there was countless (lost count) of AFWM every corner of HK (LKF area especially)
    I also traveled to Taiwan – There was a older (early mid 40s) AMWF couple with children, and again AFWM everywhere.

    Adding to recent travels:

    This year
    Washington DC- 3 days- (0 AMWF – 30+ AFWM)
    Boston- 3 days- (1 AMWF- 30+ AFWM)
    Rhode Island- 2 days – (0 AMWF – 10+ AFWM)
    Connecticut- 2 days- (0 AMWF – 2 AFWM)
    Baltimore – 2 days – (0 AMWF – 1 AFWM)
    Philadelphia- 2 days- (1 AMWF – 20+ AFWM)

    1. Fred
      Fred September 10, 2014 at 6:19 am | | Reply

      @ Darian.

      Thank for the results of your study. I counted that you have 2 AM/WF pairings versus the 93 ubiquitous WM/AF pairings. So, your numbers are not inconsistent with my findings.

      Are you now involved in a AM/WF relationship just like I am?

      Fred Fong

    2. Fred
      Fred September 10, 2014 at 6:31 am | | Reply

      @ Darian.

      Oh, shoot!!!!! When I was in H.K., I forgot to go to Lan Kai Fong (LKF) as part of my study and to have fun. I know that LKF is a street filled with bars, restaurants and lively night clubs. How could I be so dumb?

  110. Bruce
    Bruce September 10, 2014 at 3:21 am | | Reply

    What does this tell you guys ? As Asian men, we have to redefine ourselves. Most Asian women don’t understand that without Asian men, there wouldn’t exist in this world. To me, I like good , caring people in general. Asian women are different from Asian men on many issues about dating. Let me tell you and that’s part of life. Once, you talk like a confident man and act like one. I’m 100 % sure any women will give you a chance. Talk the talk and walk the walk like they put it. Some Asian women are tough and mean but if you have that confidence in you, they’ll make a U turn and go your way.

    Bruce

    1. Fred
      Fred September 10, 2014 at 6:29 am | | Reply

      @ Bruce (my bro).

      Yes, I agree with your attitude and philosophy.

      Among those AW who reject their own kind in favor of another, they are mostly raised in the West imbued with Western ideas. I have spoken with pure Chinese women (i.e. conceived, born and raised in China), and they did not ever say that they prefer or reject their own kind in favor of the foreigners. They were indifferent and said that they will not favor or disfavor either the foreigner or their fellow Chinese men. They cannot understand how or why that the “oversea Chinese girls” will reject their own kind in favor of another.

      I am aware that many white women will not prefer Asian men, while many Asian women (ie. U.S. born Chinese girls) will prefer white men over their own kind. However, when I ask this question to Hispanic women, they did not discriminate against Asian men. That is not to say that Hispanic women prefer Asian men over their own kind or over Caucasian men, but they are more predisposed to accepting the man regardless of his ethnicity or skin color. Brazilians are especially accepting of anyone per my personal experience. That is why I love Brazlian people so much and married one for little myself.

  111. Darian
    Darian September 10, 2014 at 7:38 am | | Reply

    @Fred

    LKF is where all the WM go pick up AF. I studied in HK for 7 months and hung out there time to time. Local men never really are in the area, it’s mostly WM picking up a bunch of local women.

    I am in AMWF relationship, my wife is Russian/ Ukrainian/ mix of eastern European.

  112. Bruce
    Bruce September 10, 2014 at 12:05 pm | | Reply

    Fred, My brother!! 🙂 lol

    U.S born Asian women of course will pick other men over Asian men!! First of all, Asian population is so damn small here and get influenced by western media and lifestyle here. Majority of U.S. born Asian women here don’t have the respect like Asian women raised in Asia. Brazil is very mixed so it’s understandable. Some Asian women expect highly from their Asian men like academically or financially but maybe they don’t do the same with other men. Freaking hypocrites dude !! Most white women won’t pick Asian men is because most Asian men don’t act or talk like white men ( outgoing etc ). Women in general love expressive men and if you have the height and the confidence it’s easy as 1-2-3 . Also, white women don’t understand Asian men in general because we’re not on the media/movies/news. We’re not drafted into NFL or NBA etc so how do you expect white women to visualize on Asian men. ?We’re like missing link dude. Being respectful is great to people but as Asian men we still need to show what we have so women in general will not look us down. Yes, Asian men should learn the art of seduction and forget about stereotype like ” calculating” . Our Asian dads didn’t let us go out to pick up chicks when we were young. Look at the result now!!! We have trained our Asian men to become a bunch of robots ( piece of wood). I’m serious here. some Asian men can’t even pick up Asian women so tell me what can they do? Women in general don’t want to know how good you’re at math or programming games/software. They want you to display affections toward them even though the relationship won’t work out at the end. Yes, Hispanic women accept Asian men in big numbers. They don’t discriminate that much. Lesson #1 : learn how to attract women. lesson #2: learn how to eliminate bad women from your life. Lesson #3 : Learn how to maintain and keep a compatible , good woman for life regardless of race. I ‘ve told my friends to keep only good women and forget about the rest.

  113. Darian
    Darian September 10, 2014 at 10:46 pm | | Reply

    @ Bruce,

    You are right.

    It’s tough growing up realizing what our parents told us about fair (by ripping the toy you wanted to give to your little brother so he would shut up) is all a lie.

    Nothing is fair, and nobody is created equal.
    This is the lie our parents told us.
    It’s a lie the government tells us.
    It’s a lie the boss tells us.

    The only way is to fight for it, if you really want it.

    Being any other race but White in the US or any other European country is not fair.
    And will NEVER be fair.

    The best way to go by it is:

    Walk in to everywhere as you deserve to be there.
    Expect what you work hard for, but not expect things to be handed to you.
    Don’t use your race as an excuse. (If someone is mean to you, don’t think first hand that this person is a racist, he/she may just be an A-hole to everyone)
    If you can’t get it, means you really don’t want it enough.

    Asian men and black women are the least desired sex in the country.
    Mostly because we did it to our self.

    If we keep looking to race always as an excuse, we’ll never find happiness.

    I know I am great person, I know I treat everyone around me with respect and honesty. If someone decided to be a jerk to me, it’s their lost, they are not worthy to be in my life.

    I mention self hating Asian girls before, but I don’t really care who they choose to be with, but don’t step up and insult me, because I did nothing wrong. Don’t let anyone walk all over you.

  114. Bruce
    Bruce September 10, 2014 at 11:32 pm | | Reply

    Darian,

    I agree with what you’ve said 1000 %. Nothing is handed to you for free. You just have to work for it like you just have to work hard to attract women. Freaking you can’t just sit in your room and expect women to come to you. Not all Asian men are sissy , weak or bad people so I don’t understand why some Asian women would say ” I don’t date Asian men”. Let me tell everybody here that I’m the nicest person if you treat me right but I can have the most violent thoughts on my mind if you treat me wrong. Many people said to me that “how come you do so much ? You work so hard ” . Hey man, because I love it and I want to do it. If you lay down and compare me with other men , I’ve surpassed others already. So please do more and improve your personalities and outlook on life and you will be a totally different person. You mean the most beautiful men and women don’t have anger issue ? I do !! so don’t let that stop you from doing anything. Just do it. Don’t be a followers. Initiate and go do it.

  115. Fred
    Fred September 11, 2014 at 5:21 am | | Reply

    @ Darian.

    I did not know that foreign men go to LKF to pick-up local Asian women. Where do the local H.K. men go to pick up local or foreign women then? I was interested in finding more AM/WF pairings and so I had thought that LKF would be a great place since Chinese are the overwhelming majority in H.K. I guess I am wrong based on what you said above.
    Fred

  116. Darian
    Darian September 11, 2014 at 6:25 am | | Reply

    @ Fred,

    Most of my friends in HK are girls, 90% (my friends) of them refuse to date HK men, either they complain that HK men act like children (all they care about are video games), not successful enough (No car, no house, no good job), or not tall or muscular enough. So my friends usually stay single then date them, or until they find a Western man. Most of these Western men are there just to play around, almost none of them intend to stay in Hong Kong, but most HK girl choose Western men over local HK men while they know this better than me.
    (Noted that I went to college for a while there, mostly interacted with more educated (10%) of HKers since roughly only 10% could ever reach College level.
    I am guessing most younger couple HK girl and boy unions usually met and settled since high school.

    On the flip side, HK men are tired of these stuck up HK girls, they rather go to Mainland China to find a wife, saying that they are less demanding, and just view being in HK is already a higher status than the rest.

    Most Western women in HK for work are usually married, or tend to stay with other Western men working in HK.

    From my understanding, the higher the education of the women in HK tend to go for westerners only, they try very very hard to leave their local Chinese side behind them. They make events for local women to meet western men, and these women are willing to pay big bucks.

    http://badcanto.wordpress.com/2012/05/05/dinner-with-foreigners-in-hong-kong-ladies-pay-4800-and-free-for-foreign-gentlemen/

    please see link.

    the more I see and talk about this, the more sad it is.

  117. Darian
    Darian September 11, 2014 at 6:36 am | | Reply

    Additional note*

    Not all, but a good number of these western men and local girl unions are guys in their native countries (Canadians, Americans, Europeans) that are a little awkward (as in probably have problem picking up women in their own countries) Again, not all, but I would say 40% will would have a hard time finding a date if they were not in Hong Kong.

  118. Bruce
    Bruce September 11, 2014 at 8:35 pm | | Reply

    Darian,

    When I looked at the ads, now you know what I mean. Asian women need some respect for themselves. No women have to pay for this kind of event. I’ve noticed that normally SOME Asian women will pick on their men, but they are afraid to pick on other men. explain to me please.

    1. Fred
      Fred September 12, 2014 at 12:45 am | | Reply

      @ Bruce (my bro).

      Yes, I agree that if one has self-respect and self-dignity and not self-pity, he or she will go farther in life. I just cannot fathom the fact that women have to pay $4,800 while the foreign man need not pay a cent. I have heard of it in the reverse where the man has to pay thousands of dollars while the women get admission for free. See this link:

      http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2014/08/22/ukraine-matchmaking-wedding-industry-booming-foreigners.cnnmoney/

      This shows that foreign men (mostly Americans) had to pay thousands to be able to court Ukrainian women.

      Fred

  119. Fred
    Fred September 12, 2014 at 12:37 am | | Reply

    @ Darian.

    Wow! I did not know that in H.K. there was an event which gave free access and dinner for foreign men while charing the Kong girls $4,800 each. This is just horrible. I guess that it must have been great for a white guy. I read that there were protests on the link about this event. So, did this event go through or fell through?

    I did not know that most H.K. girls preferred foreign men over local ones. This fact is shocking to me as I did not get this impression when I was there both times. Perhaps this was the reason my field report yielded the score of 114 to 6 for the other team.

  120. Darian
    Darian September 12, 2014 at 12:59 am | | Reply

    @ Fred, Bruce,

    My friend from HK send me these links. She herself is dating an English guy, but she is making fun of other HK women. I didn’t tell it to her.

    http://blog.hiddenharmonies.org/2012/05/10/on-chinese-women-dating-marrying-white-men/

  121. Bruce
    Bruce September 12, 2014 at 1:58 am | | Reply

    Darian & Fred,

    You know field test and this kind of event could be misleading too. We must have dignity as men and women do you understand? Wtf is this man? This is worst then prostitution man. This time the women have to pay. I think this kind of event has no values to white men and Chinese women I serious. Love is based on money and status.

    1. Fred
      Fred September 12, 2014 at 5:26 am | | Reply

      @ Bruce and Darian.

      What if the situation whereby the Asian (Chinese man) did not have to pay the woman had to pay to enter the dating club? I would love it. The closest thing I can find are reports from several news agencies where the women in Russia and the Ukraine outnumber men by also 120 to 100 approximately. But the Western man has to pay thousands of dollars to travel to Russia and the Ukraine on a bride tour. The Western men will go from city to city to meet Russian & Ukrainian women introduced to the them by the marriage agency. See these reports:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4sA1pJNads

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wW7c58nMI4

      According to the news, there are more women in Russia and Ukraine than men, but yet the man has to pay to access the women. Many of these men in these news vidoes are elderly.

      Therefore, it did not make sense that the Kong girl has to pay $4,800 to be introduced to the foreign man while the foreign man can have access for free.

      Fred

      P.S.: Had I been single I would have given due consideration to going to Russia or the Ukraine based on these news segments. The bride tour sounds fun as the men bond between themselves with great comaraderie while meeting pretty girls at the same time. How can one lose?

  122. Darian
    Darian September 13, 2014 at 1:40 am | | Reply

    Fred,

    I don’t totally agree with that.

    Those men going to Russian/ Ukraine are men who are usually socially awkward.
    I am not saying it’s the wrong thing to do.
    Those women need men, those men need women (it’ll work itself out)

    These are the same kind men that go to China/ Thailand/ Philippines to look for Asian wives. Only difference is they prefer white women.

    For a lot of men, talking to women is an scary thing, and it’s easier to pay money so women talk to them.

    The difference here is these Russian/ Ukraine agencies are helping their own people, and also understanding the supply and demand.

    Chinese people has a big history of selling out our own people (sad but true)
    The first wave of Chinese people to the US are from Canton China, were sold as slaves to US to build the first railroad in SF (first Chinatown) They thought they were there digging for gold to bring home.

    In China there are 50,000,000 men are of marriage age that will never find a wife because there is just not enough women. Yet, the women that are in China don’t want Chinese men. They will pay top dollar to meet western men. Said a lot. It’s not the money, or who pays, or what not, it’s the moral of the people as a whole.

    Bottom line what bothers me is.

    Meet White women – YOU PAY MONEY

    Meet Asian women- WE PAY YOU.

  123. Fred
    Fred September 13, 2014 at 2:45 am | | Reply

    @ Darian.

    In response your statement:

    “meet white women = you pay money” and
    “meet Asian women = we pay you”

    You are so funny. I love this motto but I do not endorse the idea though. Nevertheless it is funny.

  124. Bruce
    Bruce September 13, 2014 at 3:03 am | | Reply

    Darian,

    That’s correct. This is totally messed up with Chinese women in China. Those Chinese women look at you up and down to see if you have a good job, a house, a car and with money or not. It’s sad . If you don’t have those qualifications , Chinese women won’t even look at you. That’s the reason why we have all these problems. Chinese societies create all this problems. Now you’re creating a monster. It’s unreal but very true now.

  125. Darian
    Darian September 13, 2014 at 3:04 am | | Reply

    @Fred,

    Of course don’t endorse it. It’s just sometimes we just have to laugh about it.

  126. Bruce
    Bruce September 13, 2014 at 3:05 am | | Reply

    “we pay you to slap our ass !!” I love it. ” we pay you to pull our hair at night” . Most white men there are awkward dude. I watched the films years ago.

  127. Fred
    Fred September 13, 2014 at 8:14 am | | Reply

    @ Bruce and Darian.

    I have to admit though that in the mid and late 1990’s I toyed with the idea of going to Russia with 2 men for a vacation (St. Petersburg, Moscow and Volgograd) to enjoy the sights, sounds, food and museums to see the old Communist things before they change. We had also considered trying our pick up skills on the local Russian girls. But this plan fell through because the man who spoke decent Russian backed out on us when his dad became sick; then the 2nd man backed out because he feared that without a Russian speaker we will all be rendered useless like a fish out of water; this left me all alone and I did not want to go without any one or any help. I dreamed about getting a tall beautiful Russian woman to be with me for much of the trip. But it was just only a dream which never came into fruition.

    I am in agreement with Bruce that we Chinese do things to hurt ourselves and lessen our image in the eyes of the Westerners.

  128. Bruce
    Bruce September 14, 2014 at 5:46 am | | Reply

    Darian & Fred,

    What are we looking for when it comes to women? Are we looking for someone who will spend the rest of her life with you as companion? Actually, men are looking for women who will compromise and work hard to obtain their dreams together . We don’t want someone to take home to argue 365 days a yr. I told people that if a woman who is educated and make more money and demand a man that makes more money than her then good luck. Don’t let his or her education and salary intimidate you. He/she could be hard to deal with or irrational or will run away if things don’t go right. I’m the type of man that will not run away even though bullets are flying everywhere . This really tells about a woman/man core values. It’s very hard to tame a monster that you’ve created unless you really want to by going head to head with those problems. I just see Chinese societies have lots of problems. I don’t have to point them out . You go out there and take a look by yourself . How can your own women turn their own men down? I just don’t get it. To me, this is called treason ( traitors). Look, don’t think these Chinese women are highly valuable!!! Once you get to know them, you will know that they are the same . Nothing special but they just put a higher price tag on them that’s all but nothing special. I think these kinds of women are demanding and don’t get back to reality. We want families ,tranquility and happiness and not women who will come into your lives to give you troubles.

    1. Fred
      Fred September 16, 2014 at 5:33 am | | Reply

      @ Bruce.

      I wholeheartedly agree with you that if the man seeks a woman based only on certain superficial characteristics such as her height, hair color, or facial features etc, then he is setting himself up for a great fall. For example, I saw a documentary by Debbie Lumb who created “Seeking Asian Woman” where a 60-year old white American man (Steven) sought and married a 23-year old Chinese girl from China because he wanted a young, beautiful and submissive Asian girl. He was in for a big surprise as their lack of communication created a whirlwind problem. A man should seek a woman who is true and sincere and who will stick with him through the good times and bad.
      Fred

      1. Bruce
        Bruce September 16, 2014 at 11:32 am | | Reply

        Fred,

        Yes, I do agree with you that a man should seek a woman who will stick with him through the end of the earth. What you guys read on those dating websites are just half of the story. Anybody can get dates and dinners with women but making those women stay with you will take skills , passions and your heart. I think both Chinese women and white men should pay for the event then it’s okay. At least both sides contribute so it’s genuine . I understand that nowadays nobody will ask you about how nice you are or if you’re a loyal , good man. Most people will look at what you have first like your job title, types of cars you drive or which zip code you reside. Let me tell you something. I know lots and lots of Chinese men and women who focus on those areas. I focus on honesty, happiness and GOOD HEALTH for life. I think the energy you give out to people will get noticed by other women in the long run but women you just meet on the street/dating event don’t know that. All I mean is as men and women in general, we don’t like to wear masks when talking or connecting with people. Be genuine , be original and let’s be honest then even rich people will respect you. Ask yourself this question! who are your real friends when you are down? Friends are not the people you eat or drink with all the time. Your true friends are the ones who will help and lift you up when you needed help most during your darkest days. I don’t know about you but I’ll sell everything if my wife needs help from me . Some men or women will think twice when there is tragedy in the family. I don’t know if you’ll find true love with dating events like this but I doubt it. Remember those Chinese women are educated with high salaries. They don’t need you when you’re sick or not fun anymore. They are using this event as a vehicle to exploit those white men and in return those white women will slap their flat ass at night!!! It’s all about exploitation here. Hey, if they meet somewhere then that’s okay but this is arranged and set up already.

  129. Darian
    Darian September 16, 2014 at 2:35 am | | Reply

    Fred, Bruce,

    Not exactly sure where you guys are from.

    have you received any hate or discriminated against where you are or where you have traveled being in an AMWF relationship. My wife and I have been together for about 3 years. For us North of DC we never had any problems, only in heavy Asian areas we will be stared at (usually by older Asian ladies, some even pointed at us while they talk, but never speak to us directly) South of DC we have been questioned if we were a couple, and asking us where we are from (with a confused look in their eyes, usually older women with thick southern accent). Most of the time I don’t notice, my wife points it out. Only time I feel everyone looking is when my wife is wearing heels when we go out. She’s my height (5’10”) so she’s about 6’2” when she has heels on, I think this is just due to height difference and not that we are an interracial couple.

    1. Fred
      Fred September 16, 2014 at 5:35 am | | Reply

      @ Darian.

      No, I have never taken any flak by others for dating and marrying white girl. When I was in H.K. this year and several years ago, I was stared at by some of the local Chinese people. But no one harassed us in the U.S., Brazil or H.K. or anywhere.

      Being happy with the right person is of paramount importance in this world.
      Fred.

  130. xian
    xian September 26, 2014 at 7:43 am | | Reply

    amwf is not quite rare in asian countries like japan and the phillipines still i would not say asian guys have have less percentage of getting white women.in japan i often see AMWF couples but not quite often as white man w/ asian wife

  131. suzan
    suzan November 21, 2014 at 12:14 pm | | Reply

    I read ever entry and am fascinated to say the least. I never realized how rare the amww relationship was. I thought it would be different with so many more Asian males to Asian females. Thank you Jocelyn for this informative topic. Aunt Suzan.

  132. Warren
    Warren January 1, 2015 at 1:28 pm | | Reply

    Yes, AM/WW is very rare in China. I traveled around 7 cities in South China, and can not remember seeing one couple like this. I saw lots of Loawai with Asian girls or wife’s.
    When my AW and i walk around the cities, most Chinese do not even look at us. Some older women would look at my wife with an unfriendly demeanor.
    The older (50’s) girlfriends of my wife, most divorced, are all dating, or trying to date , men from Aust’ , USA, Canada, England. What does that tell one.

  133. Fred
    Fred January 7, 2015 at 7:37 am | | Reply

    @ Warren.

    Thanks for sharing your observation here. I was wondering if you can be specific with the statistics? For example, my count was 114 WM/AF to 6 AM/WF. What was your count?

    Jocelyn did an excellent job to explain the reasons for the rarity of WF/AM pairings. But no one including her explained the reasons for the ever so common and ubiquitous WM/AF pairings in China or elswhere. I wish someone can give reasons for the common WM/AW pairings.

    Even in the U.S. where I live, I see the ubiquitous WM/AW pairings.

    Fred

  134. Warren
    Warren January 7, 2015 at 2:51 pm | | Reply

    I believe the ongoing prominence of WM/AF relates to many things; I will try to expound on three.

    The “Leftover Women” effect is real. This is compounded when a woman is divorced or older. The Asian Man of means will marry an AW, and often younger than himself.

    Westernization. The Chinese are very (and rightfully) proud of their country. At the same time, they can watch foreign movies, buy and wear clothes of an American style. Some AW are proud to be with a Western man.

    Family is very important in Asian culture. A woman likes to have her own family as well as her extended family. If she finds herself alone, she would be happy to marry a foreigner if she met the right one,and fell in love. This can sometimes work out for her, as many Western men are searching for Asian Brides.

    I am so happy that i met and married a lady from Southern China. She likes that i show my love for her quiet openly. It is fun learning our different language’s.

    I hope i can visit China again soon. I was impressed with the good people, and their way of life. Warren

    1. Fred
      Fred January 8, 2015 at 1:22 am | | Reply

      @ Warren.

      Thanks for the explanations which make sense.

      Based on your writing, I assume that you are a Western white man from the U.S. or Canada living in N. America.

      I am a Chinese/American man living in the U.S.

      All the best to you and your Chinese bride.

      Take care.

      Fred

  135. Henry
    Henry January 11, 2015 at 12:48 pm | | Reply

    Certainly am curious about Western people & cultures. Really want to date & hopefully marry a White woman, to increase the AM/WW count to 7!
    🙂

    Anyone here knows any White women who are attracted to Asian men? Please set us up. Thanks!

    Ladies, please drop me a message if u are in Hong Kong & would want to find a nice Asian man as your friend, which may lead to something more meaningful.
    😉

  136. Fred
    Fred January 14, 2015 at 8:37 am | | Reply

    @ Henry.

    I wish you well. If you are in H.K. the chances are less than if you lived in a Western country. But if you must try to seek a Western woman in H.K. I recommend that you try to find her at places where they are likely to be found such as Discovery Bay, Stanley, Happy Valley, Tsim Sha Tsui, etc. Do not go to places such as Tseung Kwan O, Lam Tien, etc. as these places are almost all exclusively Chinese people.

    You could also try some online dating.

    I have heard that men go to the Ukraine or Russia on a “bride tour.” But it will require you to travel there and try to make the love connection there.

    Good luck.

    Fred

  137. ryu
    ryu January 16, 2015 at 5:35 pm | | Reply

    27 yr old southeast asian male here 🙂
    i went to uc berkeley for my undergrad, and in my 5 years there i saw a lot of white men/asian women couples. it was overwhelming in fact and for a brief period i even found myself slightly annoyed. when you’re sitting in a restaurant and the first 8 people that come in to eat are (literally) of 4 wm/aw couples, that tends to hit a nerve somewhere inside of you (it hits a nerve because it forces me to think about things i don’t want to think about, such as “why is this so common?”, and “are asian men no longer good enough?”). like some of the other bloggers who have commented above me, i didn’t do what fred did by keeping a log, but i did keep a mental note for 5 years. the truth was that in those 5 years, the number of wm/aw couples greatly outnumbered the am/ww couples. in my rough estimation, it seemed to be something like 9 to 1. That is to say, of all the white + asian pairings, it sure did appear to me that approximately 90% of those pairings were wm/aw vs approximately 10% of am/ww. over time, i just learned to accept it as the norm. perhaps it’s just an honest and genuine preference that’s not based on anything bad, i thought.

    a very interesting observation i’d like to share is that here in the bay area (san francisco, oakland, richmond, berkeley, etc.), i’ve noticed in the past year or so a brand new wave/trend ==> black men and asian women couples. i have no idea how or when this started, but it’s becoming, in my opinion, the new “wm/aw”. i mentioned above how i once saw 4 wm/aw couples walk into a restaurant i was in, well, i saw a similar thing happen when i was at another restaurant a couple months ago where 3 bm/aw couples came in. worthy of note is that these three couples were… how do you say… old (middle-aged and above). prior to this scene, i had witnessed something like 50 or so bm/aw couples to only 2 or 3 am/bw couples (one of them being my cousin and his lovely significant other). i have no idea what’s fueling this trend.

    there’s nothing wrong with these interracial couples (of any type) because i believe that it’s a healthy thing for society, but oh boy… as an asian man who is venturing out in the dating scene, the disproportionate number of non-asianMen/aw vs. am/ww couples just *might* (not speaking for all asian men) make you feel… well… a little bit inadequate. it’s a subconscious thing, but i believe this kind of stuff kills our confidence whether we realize it or not. and of course, hollywood’s constant negative portrayal of asian men has never helped. the whole “white-guy-has-passionate-sex-with-asian-woman-and-beats-up-the-bad-asian-guys” plot is old, lame, and tiring, yet it still happens, and it still does (in my humble opinion) have a crippling effect on the psyche of us asian men, this in spite of the great progress that asian men have made in the dating scene.

    thank you fred fong for sharing with us your report. i understand most, if not all, of what i said has nothing to do with china, but i hope this post of mine is somewhat helpful to the larger discussion ==> asian men + western women couples. i’ve enjoyed reading what others have said, and i appreciate this site. i truly do. thank you Jocelyn Eikenburg. i’ve decided to bookmark your blog.

    1. ryu
      ryu January 16, 2015 at 5:37 pm | | Reply

      sorry, i just realized my post looks more like an essay. oh well, read at your own peril i guess. adios!
      happy new year to everyone. here’s to hoping this one is better.
      cheers from richmond 😉

    2. TheHusband
      TheHusband February 11, 2015 at 9:33 pm | | Reply

      and let me guess, none of the afwm couples you saw at berkeley actually had the asian girl as attractive? especially since it was a berkeley, where girls tend to be unattractive, in general. notice how the most attractive asian girls always seem to go for asian guys. and i have never seen a movie that had the plot that you described; even in the movies, the asian women tend to not be that attractive. and in regards to the “psyche” of asian men, good looking asian men actually know that they’re superior to most white men and can get any asian woman they want.

      1. ryu
        ryu February 15, 2015 at 9:08 am | | Reply

        after reading your comments, i suppose i’ll just respond once.

        it was varied all across the board. all i’ll say is that beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. i might find lucy lui attractive but you might not; you might find kim kardashian attractive but i might not. that’s kinda how it works in life. people have different tastes. similarly, people notice different things as well. and your “response” perfectly illustrates this.

        as for your approach to this broader conversation that some of us were/are having – perhaps you should come at it from a more respectful angle.

    3. Frank
      Frank May 12, 2015 at 4:53 pm | | Reply

      Hey Ryu, did you happen to notice if the women were moslty south east asian(specificially Filipino) or did they look more East Asian? There are a lot of Black men and Filipino Pairings according to Asian-Nation.org statistics.

      Thanks

  138. Fred
    Fred January 17, 2015 at 3:39 am | | Reply

    @ RYU.

    Yes, I can identify with your feelings when you wrote that after seeing so many WM/AW pairings, I too asked myself these same questions:
    1) are we Asian boys just too ugly and not good enough for even our fellow Chinese or fellow Asian girls?
    2) Are the white men just superior (ie. prettier, wealthier, more masculine etc.) than we are?
    Then after seeing movies which portrayed Asian men to be” terrible” human beings, I was worried that I may be the subject of an attack by white folks on the streets (although it did not happen to me luckily). For example, in the 1990’s there was a critically acclaimed movie called “The Joy Luck Club” which portrayed Asian men to be the “terrible” human beings but the white man to be the best. In this movie, 3 young Asian girls were married to white men but their mothers were married to Chinese men and they had the worst of times married to Chinese men. One Chinese girl was married at first to an Chinese man who was abusive and she left him; another Chinese lady had to be married as the 2nd or 3rd wife and she was not treated well by her Chinese sugar daddy. Another Chinese lady was romanced by a pretty Chinese man played by Russell Wong but Wong was a philanderer and physically hit her. So, nothing positive was shown about the Chinese men, but the Chinese community did not voice any objection. Had Hollywood portrayed Black men like they did in “The Joy Luck Club” the Black community would be protesting and screaming. But we Chinese just simply sat passively and said nothing.

    But I learned to accept the reality of the imbalance between AM/WF and WM/AF pairings and not be angry, because anger can destroy oneself. Just fill your mind with love. If you have a positive outlook on life, your positivism will somehow project itself onto others and the other person will be attracted to you.

    Good luck.

    Fred

    1. TheHusband
      TheHusband February 11, 2015 at 9:41 pm | | Reply

      um you know that none of the actresses in the joy luck club were good looking right? then again, most asian women in real life aren’t either. lol just my two cents

  139. Fred
    Fred January 17, 2015 at 3:45 am | | Reply

    @ RYU

    I forgot that I have a supplemental to this story above.

    I recently found out that my female Chinese cousin Marion who is married to a Chinese Hong Kong man and they both live in H.K. They have 2 daughters both of whom are in their early 20’s. One is living and working in Singapore and she is dating a non-Asian man (mixed East Indian and Caucasian); the other girl is studying journalism in England and she is dating a white English man. If we count these 2 pairings the results would have been: 116 to 6.

    So, I guess the score should be changed to 116 to 6.

  140. Fred
    Fred January 17, 2015 at 3:48 am | | Reply

    @ RYU

    Oh. I forgot to mention that even some ads today show that Asian men are bad. See Ashley Madison’s site:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-kim-jong-un-as-the-posterboy-for-adultery-website-ashley-madison-2012-7

  141. Fred
    Fred January 17, 2015 at 9:08 am | | Reply

    @ RYU

    Here is an explanation which accounts for why few pairings are between AM/WF:

    http://cholakovv.com/en/blog/2450

  142. Bruce
    Bruce January 18, 2015 at 12:02 am | | Reply

    Hi All,

    If you like someone from other race, go for it. There are so much sterotypes out there. We are all human inside.

    1. Fred
      Fred January 21, 2015 at 6:24 am | | Reply

      @ Darian.

      Wow! Thanks for sharing the story of the Ukranian lady and the Chinese man. Boys can only dream of having such a girl like her. But is this real or a dream?

  143. ryu
    ryu January 20, 2015 at 11:06 am | | Reply

    hi fred,
    i remember the joy luck club. i was only about 6 years old when that movie came out. i also remember that movie being the one that influenced both of my sisters to make a vow that they would never marry an asian guy (i’m not exaggerating this). one of my sisters is married to a white man (her first and only), and the other one is fascinated with black and latino men.

    i want to make the point that i only wanted to share with you some of my own experiences growing up in california. my goal was to contribute my own personal observations to the larger discussion. this kind of stuff no longer irks me like it used to, but i just think it’s so interesting from a sociological standpoint. after all, sociology is the field of study that attempts to explain human behavior and why people make the decisions that they make. and i’ve always been curious about this.

    i want to make it clear that in no way shape or form am i trying to say or imply anything negative about my fellow asian sisters. my belief is that you find love wherever you can find it. life is hard enough as it is. i’m just that asian dude trying to make sense of it all. it’s sorta like how a lot of black people will ask “why do all these black rappers and athletes date/marry non-black women (usually white women)?”.

    thanks fred for responding, and i agree, being positive and loving others are key. if ever i find myself dazed and confused about all these trends/fads/phenomenons, then i’ll just remind myself the importance of positivity and of loving others as you would yourself.

    1. Fred
      Fred January 21, 2015 at 6:36 am | | Reply

      @ Darian.

      Thanks for sharing the story of the Chinese man with the Ukranian model like lady. Perhaps those Asian (Chinese) men who are willing to give a Western woman a dating chance but are having a difficult time getting one ought to try the Ukraine and/or Russia, just like the story that Darian showed me. Please see these stories about men going to Russia to date Russian and/or Ukrainian women:

      1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4sA1pJNads

      2) http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2014/08/22/ukraine-matchmaking-wedding-industry-booming-foreigners.cnnmoney/

      3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wW7c58nMI4

      You may consider this as an option.

  144. Darian
    Darian January 21, 2015 at 10:58 pm | | Reply

    Fred,

    Do you see the hate that the comments were in the link… That is more important than the story itself. These American/ European men on the comments posting how “it’s fake” “Anyone can get a girl like that in Ukraine” “She will age, and get fat fast” just pure hate. These men are the same people who go to China to exploit local women, but somehow talk to justify that they are not the same.

    “If you’re having girl problems I feel bad for you son, with a billion girls in China and you can’t get one? (with out paying)

    1. Fred
      Fred January 25, 2015 at 10:40 am | | Reply

      @ Darian.

      No, I did not see the hate comments written. Where do I find them?

  145. TheHusband
    TheHusband February 11, 2015 at 8:57 pm | | Reply

    it’s interesting how no one has mentioned that the asian women in AFWM couples tend to always be unattractive or plain looking at best. in the US, it has even become a stereotype that white men can only get less desirable asian women because white men have lower standards and have a harder time discerning asian features. the most attractive asian women always seem to end up with asian men, either in asia itself or in the west.

  146. Darian
    Darian February 12, 2015 at 10:53 pm | | Reply

    @TheHusband,

    No one is mentioning it because it’s not true.

    There are plenty of very attractive Asian women dating Caucasian men.

    There are also not very attractive Asian women dating Caucasian men.

    Same goes for Asian men dating Caucasian women.

    I think your comment is very bias.

  147. Warren
    Warren February 12, 2015 at 11:43 pm | | Reply

    Most Chinese/Asian woman do not use make-up. There are many beautiful ladies. What makes them extra attractive is their demeanor. When i spend time with Chinese ladies, it makes me want to be a better man.

    I think my Han wife is very beautiful.

  148. Chimin
    Chimin February 13, 2015 at 3:32 am | | Reply

    We all know what are the likes of Wendi Deng seek in white men, which is better living standard in developed countries. but for Japanese, Singaporean, and South Korean women, they’ve taken that for granted, so why would they still attracted to socially awkward white men with no career prospects? I think the answer is quite simple, they idolized white men and think every white man is above them, which reminds me of the movie “white chicks” the black fella at the end of the movie isn’t upset
    about the said “white chicks” are actually black males, but he’s disappointed about the fact that they’re NOT WHITE.

  149. David
    David February 13, 2015 at 5:26 am | | Reply

    A lot of Singapore Chinese women, particularly those who are educated focus on getting a white male like a laser beam.

  150. Chimin
    Chimin February 13, 2015 at 6:01 am | | Reply

    What a pity, these highly educated Singaporean women have got the mindset of migrant working girls in China.

  151. Darius
    Darius May 12, 2015 at 5:20 pm | | Reply

    I’d be willing to bet my left nut that Fred = Manny if you can check the Ip and the location of these postings. Try to be more subtle next time on when you have less than par forum skills “fred”.

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